Feb. 15, 2026

Cosmic Questions: Dark Energy, Stellar Birth & the Nature of Black Holes

Cosmic Questions: Dark Energy, Stellar Birth & the Nature of Black Holes

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Dark Matter Theories, Solar Origins, and Black Hole Temperatures
In this milestone 600th episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson celebrate with a captivating Q&A session, tackling a variety of thought-provoking questions from listeners around the globe. Prepare to dive deep into the mysteries of the universe as they explore intriguing theories and concepts that challenge our understanding of cosmology.
Episode Highlights:
Dark Matter and Dark Energy: Daryl from South Australia presents a unique theory suggesting a connection between dark matter and dark energy, likening them to opposites with gravitational effects. Andrew and Fred dissect this idea and discuss the fundamental differences between these two cosmic phenomena.
Where Was the Sun Born? Slaty Bartfast from Norway asks if we could see the Sun's birth by pointing a telescope at its historical coordinates. The hosts explain why this wouldn’t yield any observable results and discuss the concept of solar siblings born in the same gas cloud.
Black Hole Temperatures: Bjorn from Gothenburg seeks clarification on the temperature of black holes and the material that spirals into them. Andrew and Fred clarify how the extreme heat of accreting material contrasts with the near-absolute zero temperature of the black hole itself.
The Expansion of Space: Peter from Falun poses a complex question about the nature of space and time in an expanding universe. The hosts unravel the intricacies of how our measurements of distance and time are affected by the universe's expansion.

For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about.
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.

 

 

WEBVTT

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Hi there, Thanks for joining us. My name is Andrew

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Dunkley and this is Space Nuts, a Q and A edition.

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It also happens to be our sixth hundredth episode Believe

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it or not. And what are we doing special today? Nothing.

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We're just going to answer audience and well it happens

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so often. Now we're just going to answer audience questions

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and we've got a bunch of them. The question of

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dark matter and dark energy theory has come up again.

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In fact, one of our listeners has come up with

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a theory about dark matter and dark energy theory, so

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we'll investigate that. We also have a question from somebody

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using a very interesting pseudonym finding where our son was born.

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I think we've been down that road before recently. So

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they're revisiting that the temperature of black holes has been

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raised yet again. We talked about that recently, and Peter

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has asked us about the expansion of the universe. That's

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all coming up on this edition of Space Nuts.

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Fifteen, Channel ten nine, Ignition thig one start Space Nuts

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nine or three two more Radio one Space notes asn't

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actually bought it.

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Bill's good once again joining us from the Oh It's

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not the six hundred time because we've had time off,

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so it's probably five hundred and ninety two or something

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like that. Maybe I don't know, maybe a few less.

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But his name is Fred Watson, Professor Fred Watson, in

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fact astronomer at large HIO. Fred. How you doing, Andrew?

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I'm google see you again. Good to see you too.

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Can you believe it's six hundred episodes? My goodness?

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So we because we know have two a week. Ye,

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you've got through one hundred every year, basically, doesn't it?

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Mora where it used to be every couple of years. So, yes,

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we're just moving faster. It's the expansion of the universe

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because it's accelerating. That's a little it is relive relativistic.

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Indeed, let us get straight into our questions because we've

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got a whole bunch of them. Daryl has set us

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in a question today space and that's I've been giving

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dark energy and dark matter some thought. If I've got

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this rise, dark matter pushes the universe apart or away,

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while dark energy attracts or brings stuff together. So could

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dark matter and dark energy be the same thing, but

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have like a north and south pole, I e. Dark

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matter north would be the particle that clumps together, and

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dark energy south would be the particle that pushes outwards,

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creating negative pressure and expanding the universe. Thoughts, now that's

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his question, But he says, by the way, Martin's joke

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about the Ganab Gibb being a lost bg brother made

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me laugh out loud for a couple of minutes. That's

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Daryl from South Australia. Yeah, I thought it was funny too,

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and that's the first time Martin's ever been funny. But no,

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it was a good that was a very good one. Yes,

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so this is an interesting theory as a dark matter,

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say Powell, dark energy North Powell opposite attract type of scenario.

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I don't know what do you think.

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So the issue, Yes, it's a nice thought because that

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you know, we naturally think along those lines when we

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recognize that one of these forces entities pull stuff together

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and the other pushes it apart. And in many ways

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that's the crux of the matter, because the two of

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them are fundamentally different in their in their effect on

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the universe. So dark energy, which comes as a man

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which is manifested to us in the accelerated expansion of

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the universe. That's an energy of space itself, and to

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the best of our ability to determine these things, it

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is isotropic. In other words, it's the same in all directions. Now,

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some people have questioned that, suggesting that maybe you know,

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for all, we are looking at a big chunk of

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the universe with a horizon of thirteen point eight billion

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light years. It may be that that's just a small

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part of the universe and there are other bits where,

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you know, the acceleration is not sorry, the expansion is

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not accelerating, and the two sort of even out. That's

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a caveat that we can't really deal with because with

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no idea what happens beyond the little bubble of the

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universe that we can observe, And certainly it's true within

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that bubble the acceleration is basically or the accelerated sorry,

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the accelerated expansion is basically the same in all directions.

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So it's a property of space itself. It's a fundamental property.

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Whereas dark matter, yes, that's got gravitation and pull stuff in,

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it's definitely clumpy. It actually, well, it follows the visible matter.

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That was the way it was thought to be when

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we first started thinking about dark matter, but now I

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think it's probably the other way around. That the visible

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matter is visible because dark matter acted as a kind

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of scaffolding in the early universe for the gravitational pull

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of dark matter in order to bring the clouds of

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hydrogen together, compress them and make them turn into stars.

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So that's why dark matter and normal matter stick together.

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But they do stick together. And when you know, when

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you observe the universe on the larger scales, we can

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see by for example, gravitational lensing, we can see that

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the dark matter definitely follows the visible matter. So there

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will be places where there's hardly any visible matter and

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there's hardly any dark matter, whereas with the dark energy

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it's everywhere, and so there are fundamental differences between them,

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and I suspect in the end, you know, if we

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were having this conversation in twenty to thirty years time,

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we probably will be actually, But anyway, when we look

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back on this, we might have realized that the dark

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energy is a boson, it's a force particle, whereas dark

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matter is some sort of matter particle made of quarks

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and things of that sort. So probably fundamental differences rather

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than just that sort of the idea that they might

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be the same thing but with a different polarity. I

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don't think the evidence supports that.

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I suppose we could say Daryl's fallen for the naming

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era of these two things, because you've said all along

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that dark energy is poorly named. It's not really the

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right thing to call it.

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Well, neither of them are really, you know, the invisible

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would have been far better, but dark. It's actually Fritz

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Vicki back in nineteen thirty three who labeled this stuff

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dark matter. He didn't what it was, and he said

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there must be something there, which he was calling dark matter,

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that's providing enough of a gravitational attraction to stop clusters

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of galaxies from dispersing altogether.

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Interesting. They'll figure it out one day, but for now

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it remains a mystery. But there's got to be something

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in that connection between real matter and dark matter plumping.

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Like if you go somewhere there isn't much matter, there

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isn't much dark matter. So there's got to be some

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connection there that will give us the answer day if

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we can figure out what the connection is.

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Yeah, well, the connections gravity and it's the.

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Only well, we haven't figured that out either.

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No, that's right. We basically we know how it behaves.

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We know very accurately how it behaves. We don't know

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what it is.

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It is indeed a mystery, Darryl. But coming up with

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an idea always is a good way to get people thinking.

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And maybe maybe somewhere in the dark reaches of the Internet,

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someone will hear this and go, hang on, Daryl's onto something,

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and then he'll go to his Wikipedia or his Encyclopedia Britannica,

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or his Funk and Wagnoff, flick a few pages and go,

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I've got it figured out thanks to Daryl's question on

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space nuts. So you know there are no dumb questions

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in astronomy, are there for it?

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No, that's absolutely right. There's just dumb answers from the

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LOCs and mood.

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It's Daryl, great to hear from you. Our next question

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comes from the fields of Norway, and this question goes

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by the name of Some will recognize this slaty bar

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fast listening from the fjords of Norway. Last week, someone

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asked the question about viewing the birth of the Sun,

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and Fred answered with the hypothetical mirror in space. My

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question is if we calculated the exact location in space

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for the Sun four point six billion years ago and

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pointed a telescope at those coordinate coordinates, would we see anything? Hmmm?

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Slutty Bartfast won an award, didn't he, for the fields

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of Norway? So that's right, that's right. Yes, that was

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because he designed the designed them. Yes, yes, he made fjords.

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That's right, that was what slati Vartfast was famous for.

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One of my favorite Douglas Adam's characters.

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Ah. Yeah, I think the moment where he's forced say

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his name is one of the the funniest moments I've

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ever experienced, because first time I ever listened to it,

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I listened to the audio version that just caught me

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so beautifully. I just couldn't stop cackling.

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Right, No, it's a pick stuff. One of the all

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time greats in science fiction.

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Absolutely is.

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Yeah. Anyway, the answer to Slatly Bartfast's question is no,

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So do you want to keep going?

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Well, I mean he's basically saying, so, you're saying, we

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would not see anything if we could figure out where

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the son was four point six billion years ago and

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then pointed a telescope at it.

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Yeah, because first of all, the son isn't there anymore?

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No, I know where it is.

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Yes, the odds are that point. You let me see

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which way you're pointing.

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I'm pointing that way that way.

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That's good, that's probably correct to In fact, it's behind

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me too, it's.

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To my it's to my right rear.

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All right. Okay, that's a bit intimate, isn't it anyway?

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Never mind? Yeah, the sun is certainly not shining out

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of that particular part of me at the moment, but

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it's it's in that kind of direction.

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It's all your funds think, though, is they?

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Glad? I don't even have any I don't get fan mail.

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Good abuse.

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Well, anyway, notwithstanding all that, what was the question again? Yes,

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if you could work out where the sun was four

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point six billion years ago and point a telescope at it,

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you wouldn't see anything because the point where the sun

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was formed and it will be only a few at

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most one hundred million light years away. So yeah, you've

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got to look back time. But you've got to look

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back time. It's probably less than one hundred million years

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and the sun one hundred million years ago was a

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lot like what it is now. It's slightly hotter, and

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a few other things that were going on at the time,

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but not much different. But the fact is, it's.

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Not there, it's here.

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So even I think I said in that thought experiment,

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you'd have to have a mirror something like two point

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three billion light years away, which is going to take

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you quite a lot of time to put in place anyway.

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But if that mirror was looking back to wherever the

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Sun was formed, and we don't know where that was,

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we know it's within the present vicinity of the Sun

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because stars don't move that fast. Anyway, you have this

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mirror and you capture a reflection of the Sun being born.

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That thought experiment I think would work. But just king

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where the son was when it was born isn't going

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to tell you very much.

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There's got to do something there though, right, Well, yeah.

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Probably other stars and things like that, you know. It's

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just part of the solar neighborhood.

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Yeah. Yeah, our son, I suspect came from, you know,

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a pretty rough neighborhood, and that's why it left it

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inherited money and managed to manage to get away.

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Yeah, but then it discovered drugs, didn't it.

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Yeah, Well that's that's what happened is yes, and and

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then we turned up and yeah, well hell broke loose. Yes,

216
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but there'd be nothing to say. There nothing to say

217
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:42.639
there now.

218
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.559
Nothing that's really of any interest, just to other stars.

219
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.159
Yeah, yeah, although we're still looking for Earth's siblings, sorry,

220
00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.279
the son's siblings. That's that's right, because there are there

221
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.840
would be some, but they wouldn't be there either, would they.

222
00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:00.879
Well that you know that the stars and that I'm sorry.

223
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.080
The stars that were born alongside the Sun in the

224
00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.399
same cloud of gas and dust are probably not that

225
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:16.600
far away, but they Yeah, one hundred yeah, one hundred

226
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.679
million light years I mentioned before. It's probably much much

227
00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:22.039
less than that. I don't know quite why I thought

228
00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.600
of that anyway, because the center of our galaxy is

229
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only twenty five thousand light years away, So I probably

230
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:34.000
meant a hundred thousand light years when I said a

231
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.799
hundred million. Something's going wrong with this program today, I'm

232
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:39.440
not quite sure.

233
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.759
Well, it's it's six hundred that's what it is.

234
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.159
That's what it is. There's a there's a gap in

235
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.559
space time has opened up, which I'm floundering in at

236
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:53.200
the moment. Yeah, so you know, you might it's it's

237
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.679
not gone very far. That's what I'm saying. The siblings

238
00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.279
from the Sun born in the same gas cloud from

239
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.080
the Sun. Probably within they might even be within the

240
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.919
nearest one hundred million, sorry, one hundred light years, not

241
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million light years. So, and that's why we can use

242
00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:20.679
very high resolution instruments, ones that really analyze the spectrum

243
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.120
of a star in great detail, but need the star

244
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to be relatively bright. That's why we can use that

245
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.279
technology with the real hope of finding the solar siblings,

246
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.399
because it's by analyzing the spectrum the chemical composition of

247
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.039
a star in very great detail. That's how we would

248
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:41.080
identify that the star had exactly the same chemical composition

249
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.080
as the Sun and could be regarded as likely to

250
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.000
be a solar sibling.

251
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:50.279
Okay, we may one day find one of them, but

252
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:55.600
who knows. Yeah, we'll see. And thank you slightly Bardfast,

253
00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.600
whatever your real name is. That maybe that's it could be. Thanks,

254
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.840
thanks for the question, and thank you for sending me

255
00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.759
the Babelfish so I could read the question. That was

256
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.440
a good idea, very very good idea. This is space nuts.

257
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:15.080
Andrew Duncley here with Professor Fred Watson. Let's take a

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vpn dot com slash space nuts. And we're looking at it.

281
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.240
It's you know, that moment where they realized they had

282
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:13.319
a problem on Apollo thirteen sounded much better in the movie.

283
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.079
It just yeah, you.

284
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.319
Brew, you broke up, Ah, exactly as you were saying.

285
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.400
I noticed that, and I was going to keep talking

286
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:24.359
until you came back.

287
00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:26.400
But tell me what you said.

288
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.519
I said that that moment where Apollo thirteen realized they

289
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:35.440
had that problem sounded much better in the movie. Yeah,

290
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.920
it was. It nearly as dramatic in real life, was it. Well, well,

291
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.640
it was dramatic, but the way they announced it, yea.

292
00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:47.680
They basically just said, yeah, this button didn't work more

293
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or less.

294
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.519
Yeah, I picked stuff. I mean, it's always me Tingles

295
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:53.839
Apollo thirteen.

296
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:59.440
Absolutely. Yeah. Now, Freid, let's move on to our third question.

297
00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.319
This one it comes from.

298
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:07.319
Beyond Evening Fred and Andrew. I have to thank you

299
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:14.240
for a fantastic podcast. My first choice every evening among

300
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.440
lots of interesting stuff, it's the first one I choose.

301
00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:24.319
It's regarding the question you had about temperature or black holes.

302
00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:33.680
I must ask you to clarify. If material acrets close

303
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:39.119
to your horizon, it's millions of degrees hot. If I

304
00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:44.599
follow the material spiraling inwards, it does not suddenly become

305
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:50.319
cold when it's interesting horizon. Right, it's still extremely hot,

306
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.960
maybe even hotter, even if it's supposedly hard to measure,

307
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:58.240
because it's hard to get a thermometer in there and

308
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.079
have a reference.

309
00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:05.079
But it extremely hot, but seems called to an outside

310
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:10.240
observer because it does not radiate anything. But maybe it

311
00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:15.440
could be clarified somehow. It's not magic that it suddenly

312
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:22.680
gets called. It just stops emitting, right, Take care. It's

313
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.799
beyond from Gothenburg. I love your show.

314
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.880
Thank you. Beyond that Babelfish is working well because his

315
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.119
English was excellent.

316
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.880
He lives in a nice place as well. Gottenberg's got

317
00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.680
a very nice city center with a lovely opera house. Yeah.

318
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:39.720
I haven't been there, In fact, I haven't been to

319
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:44.640
Sweden yet, but it's on the wish list, so we'll

320
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.519
see how we go. Now. He's referring to a question

321
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.559
that came from Casey in Colorado when she was asking

322
00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:55.279
about the temperature of a black hole. So he's basically

323
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.400
kind of saying, look, I understand what you were saying

324
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.880
when you answered Casey, but now everyone thinks they're cold

325
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.599
when they're probably not cold. They're just not emitting anything.

326
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:08.400
Is that right?

327
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:14.000
Yeah, that's that's right. They're cold because they're not emitting anything.

328
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:20.400
But beyond's right that you know the temperature of the

329
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.599
accretion disc, and probably the way to look at it

330
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.799
is the temperature of the event horizon. There's millions of

331
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:31.160
degrees because that's where all this stuff is circulating at

332
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:35.200
high speed and with huge amounts of energy and emitting

333
00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:41.160
X rays. It disappears over the event horizon at very

334
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.640
high temperature, and presumably within the event horizon it's still

335
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.640
got that high temperature. But then it hits the black hole.

336
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.680
It's sucked in, and if you could measure the temperature

337
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:58.200
of the black hole itself, you'd find it was virtually

338
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:04.200
absolute zero, very very temperature. Okay, because it's not emitting anything.

339
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:09.759
Stuff's going in and it is it is hard to imagine,

340
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.920
and Bjorn mentioned magic, and that's almost what it is.

341
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.400
You know, stuff that's going in at very high temperature.

342
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.160
But if you could measure the black hole itself, supposing

343
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.960
it stopped recreating material, then you could then measure its temperature.

344
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.640
It will be virtually zero.

345
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.240
Well well, well, they are so complicated though, aren't they.

346
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:35.599
I mean, we we're still learning a lot about black holes,

347
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.640
and then we're starting to image a few of them.

348
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:44.359
We've got a couple of good pickies now. But they

349
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.920
are still mesmerizing and mystifying, because until dark matter came along,

350
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.279
we got more questions about black holes than anything else.

351
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.599
They are the thing that people want us to unravel

352
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.799
in terms of understanding. But we're I think we're a

353
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:03.640
long way away from that at the moment, aren't we. Actually?

354
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.119
I think you know that we know a lot about

355
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:15.400
black holes, considering that sixty years ago nobody believed they existed. Yeah,

356
00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:21.240
and we've observed them. We've actually observed the radiation coming

357
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:25.480
from the the the accretion disk, the region around the

358
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.880
event horizon. We've we've observed the effectively the shadow of

359
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.640
the event horizon of several black holes now and even

360
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.279
detected the polarization of the material that's been sucked into it.

361
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.920
And this is extraordinary stuff. These are measurements that really

362
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.920
only a few years ago would have been thought to

363
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.119
be impossible, but we're I think, doing it rather well.

364
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.440
So we're still learning about black holes. They are and

365
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.119
that's the reason why they're so fascinating is that they

366
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.200
are completely counterintuitive. How do you have something that's simultaneously

367
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.720
at zero and a million degrees and that's what you've got.

368
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:06.799
So yeah, so it's yeah, there's there's still they're still

369
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.200
very very interesting object.

370
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:17.240
But back to Beyond's question, the temperature is zero absolute zero?

371
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.720
Were thereabout because of the fact that it.

372
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:24.599
Doesn't It doesn't really get anything exactly certainly, so the

373
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.319
way to imagine it, I think, and this probably puts

374
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:31.200
it more succinctly. Yes, well, well it's a creting. You

375
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.480
can't you can't see the black hole because it's surrounded

376
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.400
by this hot material that very high temperature is being

377
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.960
swallowed into it. But if there was, if that supply

378
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.960
of gas ran out and the black hole stopped recreating,

379
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:45.799
then you would and you could measure its temperature, then

380
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.920
it will be zero, effectively be absolute zero, a little

381
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:51.400
bit above but not very much.

382
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:55.839
Okay, there you go, Beyond, and I'm looking at photographs

383
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.960
of Gottenburg. It's it is an absolute beauty of a city,

384
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.880
isn't it? What a lovely part of the world. Yeah,

385
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:10.119
very lucky, nice trams. Thanks bien. Great to hear from

386
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.519
you in Sweden.

387
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.119
Okay, we take your being with air space nuts.

388
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:22.599
And believe it or not. Our next question comes from Sweden.

389
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.440
Does the expansion of space mean that the universe gains

390
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.960
more meters or are the meters becoming longer? Related to this,

391
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.000
is it space only that is expanding or is it

392
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:41.319
space time? If so, what's happening to the time part

393
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.559
of it? Is time expanding to what would that mean?

394
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:50.000
Thanks for a most interesting podcast. Peter from I'm going

395
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:56.400
to pronounce this incorrectly falloon in Sweden. So yeah, hopefully

396
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.839
I got that right. I think my Babelfish can't translate

397
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.559
and the sweet Swedish.

398
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:04.759
Well, if you put it the other way around, put

399
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:06.480
in the other ear, yes.

400
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:08.640
That'll do it.

401
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:15.400
So, yes, that's a great question. And so my view,

402
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:21.359
you know, the intuitive view, which is based on a

403
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:25.960
few years of thinking about this kind of thing. The

404
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:31.160
meat the meters are becoming longer, and that's sort of

405
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:34.079
illustrated by the fact that the wavelength of radiation is

406
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:38.839
getting longer. You know that radiation had a particular wavelength

407
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:43.400
when it was emitted, and as the universe has expanded,

408
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:46.079
whatever it's coming from, whether it's a distant galaxy or

409
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.319
a quasar or whatever, as the universe has expanded, that

410
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.480
radiation has been stretched, which means that the meat has

411
00:26:52.519 --> 00:27:00.559
been stretched, because the frequency remains the same except when

412
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:05.880
you observe it from our vantage point in the depths

413
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:11.279
of the universe. Yeah, forget about the frequency, that's a

414
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.920
furfe but the wavelength, the wavelength stretches so the time

415
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:20.000
that the length scale is increasing. In fact, there's there's

416
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:24.079
a thing called the scale factor of the universe, and

417
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:27.519
it's very easy to prove. It's one of the most

418
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:31.839
simple geometrical equations in cosmology. The scale factor of the

419
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:36.039
universe now compared with when the light was emitted. The

420
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:37.960
ratio of the two is equal to one over one

421
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.640
plus said, where z is the red shift of the

422
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.519
light that you're measuring. And so there's this direct link

423
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.680
between the sort of scale size of the universe, which

424
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.319
is the length of meter effectively, and the red shift

425
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.559
that we measure when we look deep into the universe.

426
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.119
You look as you've got a question.

427
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.720
Now I'm confused. So what you basically say in regard

428
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:06.119
to his question that the met is expanding? So a

429
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:07.000
meter is not a meter?

430
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:15.160
Well, it's it's still a meter, but it's a different meter, okay,

431
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.160
because the scale factor of the universe was less when

432
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.440
the light was emitted. This is the thing, you know.

433
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.799
You've got two different reference frames here. That's why this

434
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:31.559
stuff gets a little bit complicated because in our reference frame,

435
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.119
the meter is longer. But if you were traveling along

436
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:39.599
with your meter stick as it as it sped through

437
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.799
the universe, it will be changing in length. It would

438
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.519
it would sorry appear to be the same length.

439
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:55.039
Right, I'm sorry. This is just it's mind bending, mm hmm,

440
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:57.119
isn't it it?

441
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:01.480
It bends mine as well, and something similar happens to time.

442
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:06.400
But once again, so we are we're still inside the universe,

443
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:13.359
but where we're observers from in a different reference frame

444
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.799
from when the light was emitted. Because that's what we're

445
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.759
talking about. We're talking about being able to measure the

446
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:24.000
expansion of the universe through the through the light waves.

447
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:28.160
So so and we know that time dilation took place,

448
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.000
we can we can measure that by looking at this

449
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:34.400
rise and fall rates of supernova in the distant universe,

450
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.240
and they actually appear to rise and fall slower, So

451
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.559
it is the time element of that changes as well.

452
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:46.119
Okay, I think he chose a meter because the meter

453
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:51.119
was defined by the International System of Units as the

454
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:54.640
length of the path light travels in a vacuum during

455
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.920
a time in the interval of one two hundred and

456
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:01.759
ninety nine million, seven hundred and ninety two four hundred

457
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:03.680
and fifty eighths of the second.

458
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:09.960
Yeah, that's how it's that's how it's defined today. Originally

459
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.359
defined as being what was it, one four hundred thousand

460
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:13.640
of the circumference of the Earth.

461
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:14.799
I can't remember, Yeah, I.

462
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.400
Can't something like that, all right, okay, so well it

463
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:23.119
would be one forty yeah one. Anyway, so it was

464
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.319
it was. It was related to the circumference of the Earth.

465
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.160
I don't do the sums anymore. My brain's fried today.

466
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:30.759
I don't know why. I mean, you're right, I think

467
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.839
it's episode three six hundred. Yeah, is a relativistic phenomenon

468
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:35.720
taking place here.

469
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.880
It's just messing us up. I mean, we need a

470
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.799
holiday of some kind. But anyway, hopefully that helped Peter,

471
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.359
I don't know, but I think somewhere in there we

472
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.039
did answer a question. Thanks for sending it in, and

473
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:56.359
and good to have a very Scandinavian sort of six

474
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.599
hundred episode. So yeah, I mean we've got slightly fast,

475
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:04.599
We've got Sweden a couple of times over Norway and

476
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:09.640
then South Australia. Okay, well anyway close enough plus enough.

477
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:11.799
South Australia is not known for its fjords, but it

478
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:12.640
is a nice place.

479
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.079
It is a lovely place, except it was pouring rain

480
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.720
and gale force wins when we visited. But anyway, that's

481
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:21.079
the way it goes. Thank you Peter, Bjorn, slightly badcast

482
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.759
and Darryl for sending in questions. If you've got questions

483
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.880
for us, please send them in to us via our website,

484
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:31.319
spacenuts podcast dot com, space nuts dot Io. Click on

485
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.200
the AMA button which stands for Ask Me Anything and

486
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.319
send us your text or audio questions. Don't forget to

487
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:39.240
tell us who you are and we're from. We'd love

488
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:44.599
to hear from you, especially if you haven't sending questions before. Also,

489
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.480
if you'd like to help us out, please wherever you

490
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:52.240
listen to us, leave reviews because the more reviews the better,

491
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:58.599
the more we move up the relativistic food chain that

492
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:03.279
is podcast world, and we get more listeners. Perhaps that's

493
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.440
that's the aim of the game. Anyway, if you do

494
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.960
that for us, that'd be great. And Fred, thank you

495
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:10.759
very much. Nice to chat. We'll catch you on the

496
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.680
next episode.

497
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.359
Sounds great, Andrew, I hope we get our breath boat

498
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:15.920
before then.

499
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.039
Yes, yes, it's been a bit tiring, hasn't Itred. We

500
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.160
got there in the Professor Fred Wartson, Astronomer at Large,

501
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.680
and he'll be back with us next week here in

502
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.680
the studio. We thank him too for all the work

503
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.759
he's done over these last well actually he doesn't turn

504
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:33.279
up for most so the last four episodes that he's

505
00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:35.960
been with us. In fact, he couldn't be with us

506
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.559
today because we told him he could have every six

507
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.119
hundredth episode off and from me Andrew Dunkley, thanks for

508
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.799
your company. We'll see you on the next episode of

509
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:45.960
Space Nuts. Bye bye.

510
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:50.680
You'll listening to the Space Nuts podcast.

511
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:57.720
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

512
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.279
You can also stream on demand buy dot com. This

513
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:06.480
has been another quality podcast production from Nights dot com