Cosmic Questions: Black Holes, Space-Time & Interstellar Adventures

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Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another fun episode, a Q

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and A episode of space nuts.

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Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3.

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2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,

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3, 2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts

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report. It feels good.

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Heidi Campo: I'm your host, Heidi Campo, filling in for

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Andrew Dunkley. And joining us is Professor

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Fred Watson, astronomer at large.

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How are you doing, Fred? That was quite the smart, uh, little

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adjustment of your glasses. It made you look even more

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smart.

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Professor Fred Watson: Oh, thank. Thank

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you, Heidi. You can come again. Um,

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Luke, um, it's great to see you again and, uh,

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all going well here and lots, um, of

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exciting space stuff always to talk about,

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especially with the questions that we get from our listeners, which are always

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intriguing and often very

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insightful.

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Heidi Campo: Yeah.

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And so we do have. We have four questions today.

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Um, you know, two. Two audio

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questions, two written questions.

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Um, but we do want to say if you did not hear our announcement

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on the last episode, uh, we'll make that an

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episode and make that announcement again. We just want to say thank

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you to our listeners. We were

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declared, I guess you could say, the seventh,

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uh, top 20, top seven, uh,

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astronomy podcasts, wherever you listen to your

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podcast. So thank you so much. Fred, do you

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have anything you want to add to that?

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Professor Fred Watson: Only, um, uh, only that

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it's amazing how many people do

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listen to our podcasts. Um, I was in a medical

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waiting room on Monday, and a gentleman,

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I think his name was Stephen, came up and said, really

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enjoy the podcast. So, uh,

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it's quite nice.

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Heidi Campo: You're, like, at poverty.

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Professor Fred Watson: Well, you must be, too. I bet you find people,

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uh, and if you don't now, you will. You will do.

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Eventually, people who come up to you and say, yeah, I know your

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face, or, I know your. I know your voice.

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Heidi Campo: Well, I think I have to leave my house for that to happen. I.

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I'm. I'm too busy. I'm at the

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lab or I'm at home, so you don't see me in public

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unless you see me at the grocery store.

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Professor Fred Watson: There you go. That could be where it happens. You never know.

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So anyway, yeah, it's. Look, it's great to have that,

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um, seventh ranking in, uh, the

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world's top 50 astronomy

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podcasts. I'm thrilled to hear it.

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Heidi Campo: Well, I guess that makes our, uh, regular,

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um, people who write in their questions famous too,

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then, because we do have some regulars, a few of them

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today.

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Um, our first question today is from Mark

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Painter, and Mark has another

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black hole question. And then he has this funny

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emoji, uh, next to it that he, he made with

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text. It's not like a regular emoji. He did that with

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like special characters. Very clever. All right, so we

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have another, we have another black hole question from Mark.

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And Mark asks, as a singularity is

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formed with infinite mass, there must be a process of

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reduction, starting with electron

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degenerate matter, then collapsing to a neutron

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star. Then there is a quark,

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quark matter in massive neutron stars, where

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quarks are no longer confined to

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protons and neutrons. So my question is this.

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Can there be more stages of matter reduction

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to go through before a singularity or a

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Planck star is formed? That is,

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can quarks be composed of smaller units

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of matter and then these units break down

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to, to their constitutes

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and so on? Could there be many forms of matter

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we are yet to theorize and at

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some time possibly discover?

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Could it be elephants all the way down?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, uh, oh, turtles all the way down. I

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think that was the other way of looking at the universe.

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Um, so it's a great question. Um,

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you know, if you think of. So we envisage

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the process of a black hole forming after a

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supernova explosion. You've got the uh,

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star which has run out of hydrogen fuel.

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Uh, this is one way of black hole

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formation. There's others. Uh, but anyway, it uh,

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runs out of hydrogen fuel, so there's no longer the

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outward radiation pressure to support the mass of the star,

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and it collapses. Uh, and if there's enough

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material there, the collapse doesn't

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just stop with uh, as, as

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Mark points out, electron degenerate matter. That's

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what we call a white dwarf star. Uh,

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or it doesn't stop with that, and it doesn't stop with

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neutron degenerate matter, which is what we call a neutron

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star. It just collapses down basically

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to uh, to, to a singularity, to

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this point of infinite density. Um, and

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it's not infinite mass, as Mark

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said, it's infinite density. But, um,

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that's not the point. The point is, um, you know,

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is there, uh, as you get to that

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singularity, are there

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other constituents of matter

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that the collapse goes through? And

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my understanding of this is that the answer

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is no. Uh, we understand

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the very well from particle physics

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what the, the most fundamental

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particles of matter are. Uh,

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uh, and it's what we call the standard model. There are 16 of

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them, plus something called the Higgs boson, which gives all,

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all the others their mass. Um,

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um, and ah, that these as far

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as we know, are ah, indivisible.

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They are not able to fall

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into, into Pieces. They are,

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they are the ultimate, you know, the

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ultimate building blocks of matter.

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Um, there are six quarks, the up, down,

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charm, strange top and bottom quarks.

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Uh, that's the, you know, the,

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the, the, the quark component. So quarks themselves

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are, ah, have, have different varieties.

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Um, there are six leptons. The electron

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muon, tau, electron neutrino,

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muon neutrino and tau neutrino. And then

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the four fundamental forces of nature. What are called the

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gauge bosons, the gluon which

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uh, operates the strong atomic force,

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the photon, which we know is all about

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electromagnetic radiation, and the Z and W

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bosons, which uh, uh, dictate the weak

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nuclear force. So those are what, what

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everything is made of. And

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uh, the idea of separating them

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into smaller particles I think is

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uh, something that uh, the particle

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physicists rule out. They're telling us that that's the way

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it goes. And so yes, as the collapse takes

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place, um, these are probably the last things

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to you know, not to come into existence but to

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disappear, uh, down the singularity, if I can put it

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that way. But it's a great question, uh, Mark,

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and got me thinking about particle physics once again.

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Heidi Campo: Excellent.

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Well it looks like our next question is from

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one of those uh, famous regular

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listeners and it is a audio question,

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so we are going to play that for you now. You guys can all listen

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to Buddy from Oregon's question and Fred

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and I are going to listen to that right now. I'm just letting Fred

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get that queued up. All right everyone, we're going to play Buddy's

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question for you now.

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Buddy: This is Buddy from Ontario, Oregon again. Hey, I was

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listening to your latest episode

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and uh, where you m announced that

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there's a third object from outside our solar system passing through a

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comet I guess. And I know you said there was no point

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before in uh, trying to catch

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these objects because if you get that fast, you can

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sense something or that object in any

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direction. What if you were to just land like a

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spin launch on, on one of those objects with a few

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satellites. That way anytime it happen to get close enough

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to, to uh, something interesting, we could launch it

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with a spin launch and possibly maybe use that spin

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launch to counteract the speed that you're going at so that

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you could just kind of gently place a object

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in, in orbit around something.

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Seems like we should have eyes in any, every direction we can send

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one. But ah, anyways, what do you guys think?

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Thanks guys. Love this podcast.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, intriguing stuff from Buddy as always.

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Um, so just uh, Filling

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in a few gaps in that SpinLaunch is indeed a

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technique for launching

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space vehicles. Uh, it's

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a company, I think they're called SpinLaunch,

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uh, and they've built this gigantic device

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that spins things up to a high level of

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rotation and that lets them go. Um,

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my understanding, although they've got um, I know

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there's an announcement recently they've got a large contract uh,

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for some possible

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uh, space vehicles. I don't think they've yet achieved

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um, a sufficient velocity

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as ah, you release it from the spin to get into orbit.

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That needs to go up to 8km per second and I

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think they're much less than that. So

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um, M from Earth. Ah, that's not

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really a viable way of doing what Buddy's talking

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about, which is chasing after an interstellar object.

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Um, if you had one of these machines

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on board a spacecraft already, that

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might be a viable way of doing it because you only need to

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give it a smaller impulse. But you can still do that

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chemically. You can actually, you've got much more control

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over uh, what you're doing with chemical rockets. And the

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problem is, uh, as Buddy

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highlights the objects

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like these various,

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um, the three interstellar, um,

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objects that have passed through the solar system,

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Oumuamua, uh, Borisov, Comet

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Borisov, and the Current 1, uh, 3i

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Atlas, which is showing all the signs of being a

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comet. Um, that one's

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passing through the solar system at the moment. The problem is they're moving so

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fast. Um, uh, Atlas is moving

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at 60 ah, kilometers per second. It's

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a huge speed, bigger um, than

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anything that we've ever launched into space before,

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so we'd never chase it. Um,

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and this is the problem from our

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vantage point on uh, Earth. The idea is that one of

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these things comes in, you mount a space mission to go and

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rendezvous with it and check it out, which would be wonderful.

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But exactly as Buzzy says, you need eyes in all

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directions and more especially you need spacecra

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that are probably already out there, uh, just

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waiting to be deployed in particular

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directions. Now there's an interesting footnote though to

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this story because, um, within the last

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week we've had a proposal

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from our good friend Avi Loeb

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of the Harvard Smithsonian, uh, Center for

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Astrophysics. He has made the

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suggestion that uh, because

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uh, the ATLAS comet,

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uh, currently going through the solar system from some

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other solar system, it's probably older than our solar system

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because that passes relatively close to Jupiter.

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And I think it's either next year or the year after I Think it's

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probably next year, um, you

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could deploy a uh, spacecraft

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already in orbit around Jupiter. Uh, and he's thinking of

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the Juno spacecraft which is uh, already

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uh, orbiting Jupiter and telling us a lot about

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that planet. Um, you could change its

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orbit. It's in a very, uh, already in a highly

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elliptical or elongated orbit.

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Uh, uh, Loeb and his colleagues suggest that you could

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change that orbit, uh, make

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it elongated enough that you

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actually get uh, a closer look

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at uh, Comet 3I Atlas as it

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passes by Jupiter. And that will be fabulous

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because it would be a way of getting up

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close and personal uh, with an interstellar object

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that might tell us a lot more about them, uh, about

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it than we, we know already. So um,

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so I think this is an exciting area that Buddy's

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highlighted. Uh, the idea of rendezvousing with

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uh, extraterrestrial or extrasolar,

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um, uh, extra

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extrasolar asteroids or comets,

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rendezvousing them with them, uh, with whatever

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we have at our disposal. And if we've got Juno at

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our disposal already hanging around in the vicinity of

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Jupiter, maybe it will be a good thing to do to

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bring the mission to an end by rendezvousing with

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Comet 3i Atlas. So I like that

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question.

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Heidi Campo: A lot of tongue twisters in this field.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's true.

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Now back to the show.

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Generic: Roger in your labs right here.

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00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:04.900
Professor Fred Watson: Also space nuts.

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Heidi Campo: Our next question starts, uh, off with a tongue twister.

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00:15:08.510 --> 00:15:11.310
This is Lawrence from London says

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hi agents Lawrence from London. Lawrence from

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London here. I will jump straight to the point.

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Has there ever been any sort of proposal of space

320
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time being a super fluid? And if

321
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so, how did that play out? One of my

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00:15:25.430 --> 00:15:27.990
biggest grievances are those space time

323
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diagrams that show a single plane with the

324
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planet on top causing curvature on said

325
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plane. For me it feels like it

326
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skews the four dimensional reality that truly

327
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exists as there is not just a single plane

328
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for everything to rest on. If we could find ways to

329
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visualize this more accurately, I feel like

330
00:15:47.770 --> 00:15:50.570
we would appeal to the fluid more

331
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often to describe the behavior of space time

332
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as it would allow for these extra dimensions rather than the

333
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typical two dimensional spacetime diagrams.

334
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As for time, perhaps it could be

335
00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:05.200
understood to be the flow rate of the

336
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superfluid. As for the elasticity

337
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:11.000
and the structural integrity we see of space time,

338
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maybe quantized vortices.

339
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As for gravity, I have no idea. It is a good

340
00:16:17.040 --> 00:16:19.520
thing that I can ask this question to an

341
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astrophysicist. Many thanks gents. Looking

342
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.440
forward to hearing your response.

343
00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:28.540
I'm interested too. That was quite an interesting, um,

344
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visual.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. And his point's well made.

346
00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:37.280
Um, thanks. Thanks Lawrence for this. Your point's

347
00:16:37.280 --> 00:16:40.280
well made that we have no way of depicting

348
00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:42.960
space time being distorted by matter,

349
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which is what happens other than, you know,

350
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.520
this picture that we all are familiar with of a

351
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planet sitting on a trampoline, uh,

352
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with the trampoline map being distorted by the,

353
00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:57.320
by the gravity of the planet. That's because we have to reduce it to

354
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two dimensions. It's because, because it's the only way we can really

355
00:17:00.140 --> 00:17:02.300
envisage it. But

356
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um, the notion underlying

357
00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:08.940
uh, Lawrence's question is

358
00:17:09.020 --> 00:17:11.780
that, uh, he's sort of in a

359
00:17:11.780 --> 00:17:14.460
sense ahead of the game. And that is because,

360
00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:17.460
well, uh, he talks about superfluids. A

361
00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:19.660
superfluid is a fluid with zero

362
00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:22.060
viscosity and that is what

363
00:17:22.060 --> 00:17:25.030
spacetime is. Uh, it is already

364
00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:28.310
effectively a superfluid. Uh, our

365
00:17:28.310 --> 00:17:31.110
Understanding of space time comes from

366
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general relativity, Einstein's general theory of

367
00:17:34.350 --> 00:17:36.470
relativity. And he was,

368
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he understood the idea that

369
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matter would distort

370
00:17:43.470 --> 00:17:45.940
space, uh,

371
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because he was basically trying to understand gravity.

372
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Uh, and he

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basically what he did was propose that gravity,

374
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so that gravity was the way he was approaching this. Gravity

375
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is the same as acceleration.

376
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Um, so if you were in a spacecraft,

377
00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:07.970
uh, with no windows,

378
00:18:08.870 --> 00:18:11.330
uh, and somebody lit the fuse and

379
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put the rocket underneath the spacecraft and sent it

380
00:18:14.450 --> 00:18:17.210
accelerating on its way from within that

381
00:18:17.210 --> 00:18:20.100
spacecraft, you would not know whether you're feeling

382
00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:22.900
the effect of the acceleration or the pull of

383
00:18:22.900 --> 00:18:25.580
gravity. They are indistinguishable. It's something

384
00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:28.660
that technically is known by the

385
00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:31.020
equivalence principle, which holds up

386
00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:34.100
incredibly strongly. So

387
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what you're saying is gravity and acceleration are effectively the same

388
00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:40.020
thing. That allowed Einstein to build a

389
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geometrical model of how gravity works.

390
00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:45.300
And that's what led to our

391
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understanding of space time. Something that is distorted

392
00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:49.580
by the presence of matter.

393
00:18:50.840 --> 00:18:52.980
Uh, it's got a uh,

394
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:55.130
gobbledygook description, the

395
00:18:55.130 --> 00:18:58.090
mathematical uh, description

396
00:18:58.090 --> 00:19:01.090
or the mathematical structure if you

397
00:19:01.090 --> 00:19:03.890
like, that we see a

398
00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:06.770
space time, um, it is based

399
00:19:06.770 --> 00:19:08.450
on geometry developed by

400
00:19:09.730 --> 00:19:12.650
a uh, German mathematician who's can't remember his first

401
00:19:12.650 --> 00:19:15.330
name. His second name was Riemann. Riemann

402
00:19:15.650 --> 00:19:18.600
in the 1850s proposed the

403
00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:21.200
idea of spaces that could be

404
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.960
distorted by things within them.

405
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.960
And that turns out that that's exactly what

406
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.800
space time is. Uh, in the

407
00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:33.520
relativistic view it's something a

408
00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:35.960
mathematical construct that we call a Riemannian

409
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.920
manifold. And it is a superfluid.

410
00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.480
It basically behaves just like a superfluid.

411
00:19:41.740 --> 00:19:44.400
Uh, and uh, you know, the quantized

412
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.080
vortices that Lawrence mentions, that

413
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:49.880
puts a different slant on it because you're

414
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.980
suddenly into um, uh, um,

415
00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:56.190
quantum ah, theory, uh,

416
00:19:57.560 --> 00:20:00.400
rather than relativity theory. So we'll just

417
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.880
leave that to one side. But as far as

418
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.680
relativity is concerned, space is a superfluid.

419
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.600
And the way gravity emerges. Lawrence says,

420
00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:11.520
as for gravity, I have no idea. It's a good thing I can ask this question to

421
00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:14.280
an astrophysicist. Well, I'm glad you did. Uh, because

422
00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:16.500
grav, gravity is the acceleration. It's the

423
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:18.980
distortion of space causing

424
00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:22.860
us to feel an acceleration which we see as

425
00:20:22.860 --> 00:20:25.740
gravity. I hope that answers Lawrence's

426
00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:26.100
question.

427
00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:28.740
Heidi Campo: That was fantastic.

428
00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:33.940
Generic: Three, two, one.

429
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:35.700
Heidi Campo: Space nuts.

430
00:20:35.860 --> 00:20:38.660
Our very last question of this episode

431
00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:40.830
is from Dan,

432
00:20:41.420 --> 00:20:44.310
um, on the Gold coast. And this is also an

433
00:20:44.310 --> 00:20:47.270
audio question. So I'm going to give Fred just a second to cue that

434
00:20:47.270 --> 00:20:50.110
up and we are going to play that for you now.

435
00:20:50.750 --> 00:20:53.340
Martin Berman Gorvine: Hey, guys. Dan here from the Gold Coast. Quick, um,

436
00:20:53.590 --> 00:20:56.110
question. Thought it might be a bit different for you. Got a friend

437
00:20:56.350 --> 00:20:58.910
who a couple of years ago we were

438
00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:01.790
discussing space exploration, that kind of stuff, and

439
00:21:01.790 --> 00:21:04.670
his view was that he'd understand why the human race

440
00:21:05.630 --> 00:21:07.870
puts, uh, time into exploring space

441
00:21:08.540 --> 00:21:11.460
when we still don't quite understand Earth. And

442
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.220
I couldn't, you know, I couldn't put into words

443
00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:17.220
myself why it's so important, which I understand it

444
00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:20.020
is. I was hoping you could put into your

445
00:21:20.020 --> 00:21:22.860
own words why is it so important that we also

446
00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:25.780
put time into, uh, exploring

447
00:21:25.780 --> 00:21:28.380
space? Thanks for that. Um, also,

448
00:21:28.620 --> 00:21:31.500
Heidi, with your sci fi brain, I'm wondering,

449
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:34.460
have you read Project Hail Mary? Do you love it like I

450
00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.340
do? And are you excited for the movie? All right,

451
00:21:37.340 --> 00:21:38.500
cheers. Bye.

452
00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.660
Heidi Campo: Oh my goodness. I'm so excited that you brought up

453
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:45.420
Project Hail Mary. Um, that is next

454
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:48.380
on my list. Um, it is next

455
00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:51.220
on my list. I have read other books from that author and

456
00:21:51.620 --> 00:21:54.180
I'm very excited to read it, but I have not yet.

457
00:21:54.780 --> 00:21:57.300
Um, and I feel a little bit like a

458
00:21:57.300 --> 00:22:00.060
hypocrite because I pride

459
00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:03.020
myself on often reading the books before the movies. But

460
00:22:03.020 --> 00:22:05.780
now I feel like a hipster because I'm reading it before the movie comes

461
00:22:05.780 --> 00:22:06.100
out.

462
00:22:09.140 --> 00:22:11.940
Professor Fred Watson: That's good. No, that's. You're ahead of the game, Heidi.

463
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:14.820
That's the great thing. Um, when you've read it,

464
00:22:14.820 --> 00:22:16.340
I'd love to hear what it's about.

465
00:22:18.340 --> 00:22:18.740
Heidi Campo: Facebook.

466
00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:22.820
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Yep, sounds great.

467
00:22:24.580 --> 00:22:27.220
Very quickly, uh, why do we

468
00:22:27.780 --> 00:22:30.780
explore space? Why explore the universe, uh, when

469
00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:33.460
there's so much on Earth that's left to understand?

470
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.420
Uh, and I guess we. One way of. There's many,

471
00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:40.300
many, many reasons why. And it's principally governments

472
00:22:40.300 --> 00:22:42.780
that support the exploration of

473
00:22:43.100 --> 00:22:45.980
space, certainly by astronomers, and um, to

474
00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:48.740
some extent the exploration of space by space

475
00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:51.660
probes as well. Although there's a, certainly, uh, a

476
00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:54.900
commercial sector moving into that, uh, trying to

477
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.860
send spacecraft to the moon and things of that sort. But why

478
00:22:57.860 --> 00:23:00.460
do we do it? Um, well, we wouldn't be able to understand

479
00:23:00.540 --> 00:23:02.940
Earth fully if we didn't know about space.

480
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.630
Um, so, uh, the two are

481
00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:09.230
really part and parcel of the same thing. It's trying to understand

482
00:23:09.310 --> 00:23:11.950
our environment on the biggest

483
00:23:12.190 --> 00:23:14.830
possible scale. Uh, and

484
00:23:14.910 --> 00:23:17.800
you know, uh, if you didn't, um,

485
00:23:17.950 --> 00:23:20.870
understand how planets form, then it

486
00:23:20.870 --> 00:23:23.790
wouldn't really tell you, um, how the Earth has

487
00:23:23.790 --> 00:23:26.550
formed. Uh, and that's an important part of the

488
00:23:26.550 --> 00:23:29.430
Earth's history. So that's. And

489
00:23:29.430 --> 00:23:31.990
of course the other thing is that we as a species are

490
00:23:31.990 --> 00:23:34.670
curious we want to know about our environment

491
00:23:34.830 --> 00:23:37.750
in space, we want to know about the origin of space, we want

492
00:23:37.750 --> 00:23:40.590
to know about where everything came from. It's fundamental

493
00:23:41.070 --> 00:23:43.390
science that may not have an immediate

494
00:23:43.550 --> 00:23:46.430
commercial benefit, but it tells us about

495
00:23:46.830 --> 00:23:49.450
ourselves, uh, and um,

496
00:23:51.950 --> 00:23:54.190
satisfies our uh, curiosity,

497
00:23:54.670 --> 00:23:57.650
our yearning to understand uh,

498
00:23:57.650 --> 00:23:59.950
the scale of space and

499
00:24:00.580 --> 00:24:03.420
how it all works. That's the, I

500
00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:06.100
guess the fundamental reason for doing it. But

501
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:08.870
there are many other reasons. One uh,

502
00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:11.940
reason why governments invest in space and

503
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.780
astronomy is to inspire upcoming

504
00:24:14.780 --> 00:24:17.740
generations because we know

505
00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:20.660
that there's nothing like black holes

506
00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:23.220
or killer asteroids or whatever for

507
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:26.460
getting kids switched on to science. And it's a great

508
00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:29.380
way. Even if they don't become astronomers or space scientists,

509
00:24:29.780 --> 00:24:32.640
they at least understand the scientific methods. They understand

510
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.200
the evidence based method that is

511
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.000
fundamental to all signs. Um, and so

512
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.320
that's another reason we've got of course spin offs,

513
00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:44.280
we've got all kinds of uh, things. There

514
00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:47.160
are three different things inside this

515
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.960
mobile phone that I'm holding up for those of you who don't

516
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.800
have, don't have YouTube Music version of this

517
00:24:53.120 --> 00:24:56.000
podcast. Uh, three things of that that

518
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.720
came from astronomy and understanding

519
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.720
physics. Uh, you know the GPS system relies

520
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.380
on general relativity which was test by

521
00:25:04.860 --> 00:25:07.500
astronomical observations. The camera in it

522
00:25:07.820 --> 00:25:09.830
was essentially um,

523
00:25:10.310 --> 00:25:13.180
uh, evolved from cameras that were

524
00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:15.010
developed from uh,

525
00:25:15.820 --> 00:25:18.220
astronomical cameras that we were bringing

526
00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:21.180
to fruition in the 1980s. These

527
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:24.220
silicon devices that let us see very faint

528
00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:26.900
light levels and WI fi, the WI fi, uh,

529
00:25:27.020 --> 00:25:29.820
that um, lets us use our phones actually

530
00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:32.780
started off in the head of an astrophysicist working

531
00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:35.670
in radio astronomy. How do you send signals

532
00:25:35.670 --> 00:25:38.630
backwards and forwards in your laboratories? And he was an

533
00:25:38.630 --> 00:25:41.390
Australian. Well he still is. His name is John o' Sullivan and

534
00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:43.390
I've had a number of

535
00:25:44.270 --> 00:25:47.090
pleasant chats with him over the years. Uh,

536
00:25:47.090 --> 00:25:49.990
very well known astrophysicist. So um,

537
00:25:49.990 --> 00:25:52.630
lots of reasons why we do space, uh,

538
00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:55.670
not just because we are curious

539
00:25:55.670 --> 00:25:57.470
about it, but that's the main

540
00:25:58.510 --> 00:25:59.790
underlying reason.

541
00:26:01.230 --> 00:26:03.230
Heidi Campo: Fred, what got you interested in space?

542
00:26:04.110 --> 00:26:05.790
Why did you choose this as a career?

543
00:26:06.670 --> 00:26:09.550
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, look, in

544
00:26:09.550 --> 00:26:12.470
a sense, um, I'm a product of exactly what I've

545
00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:15.320
just been talking about. Um, ah,

546
00:26:15.390 --> 00:26:18.030
although things were a little bit different

547
00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:21.270
when I was a youngster because I was at school in the

548
00:26:21.270 --> 00:26:24.110
late 1950s, early 1960s at the dawn of the

549
00:26:24.110 --> 00:26:26.920
space age. Uh, so it was in our

550
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:29.320
faces all the time. Uh, and

551
00:26:30.280 --> 00:26:33.080
plus the fact that there had recently been a world war

552
00:26:33.080 --> 00:26:36.080
and a lot of people thought there was going to be another one which will

553
00:26:36.080 --> 00:26:38.640
be fought on the grounds of Science. So

554
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.560
science was absolutely hammered into us.

555
00:26:42.020 --> 00:26:44.720
Um, the school I was at had four

556
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.720
streams. Uh, three of them were science streams,

557
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.520
one was an art stream. And that is not the

558
00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:53.360
case now. Um, so, um, in a

559
00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:55.870
sense I was a product of my time. But

560
00:26:56.510 --> 00:26:58.990
I was inspired, um, by,

561
00:26:59.500 --> 00:27:02.310
uh, in fact, an astronomer who. I was only thinking

562
00:27:02.310 --> 00:27:04.990
about him this morning. Sadly now no longer with us,

563
00:27:05.230 --> 00:27:08.110
a gentleman by the name of Patrick Moore, who,

564
00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:10.870
uh, was the most famous

565
00:27:10.870 --> 00:27:13.790
astronomer in Britain for 40,

566
00:27:14.190 --> 00:27:16.950
maybe even 50 years. He had a TV

567
00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:19.710
program which, uh, started in 1957.

568
00:27:19.710 --> 00:27:22.390
It's still running. He's not in Britain. Does it anymore.

569
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.350
Uh, the sky at night. So the sky at night was

570
00:27:25.670 --> 00:27:28.550
one of the things that inspired me and got me interested in

571
00:27:28.550 --> 00:27:31.510
space. And I never really grew up. I just,

572
00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:34.430
um, carried on being interested and have been all my

573
00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:35.110
life. So.

574
00:27:35.350 --> 00:27:38.310
Heidi Campo: So I love that. That's a really fun story.

575
00:27:40.310 --> 00:27:43.070
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. You know, I, I just

576
00:27:43.070 --> 00:27:45.830
feel very fortunate to have had

577
00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:48.800
a job throughout my life that I probably

578
00:27:48.800 --> 00:27:51.720
would have done even if they hadn't paid me for it

579
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.600
because it was my passion. Not sure

580
00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:56.960
how I would have lived had that been the case. But

581
00:27:57.120 --> 00:27:57.680
anyway.

582
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:58.400
Heidi Campo: That's wonderful.

583
00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.120
Professor Fred Watson: It's been great.

584
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.080
Heidi Campo: Well, on, um, that positive note, um, keep,

585
00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:04.960
keep dreaming, everyone. Keep looking at the stars and keep

586
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.920
sending us your questions. Especially if

587
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.520
you're one of our female listeners. I have been here all

588
00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:13.200
summer and we have not gotten one question from the

589
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.920
ladies. So if you're a female listener

590
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.800
and you have been wondering if your

591
00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:21.080
question's good enough. It's good enough. Just send it in.

592
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.880
We, um, love our fellas, but if there are, I mean, we've got

593
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.760
to have female listeners. This can't be 100% guys who

594
00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:30.720
are interested in space. Uh, so send in your

595
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.720
questions. We want to hear from you. Fred, do you

596
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.000
have any closing remarks?

597
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.840
Professor Fred Watson: No, just to, to say, uh, absolutely, I agree

598
00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:41.560
with that. We do know we've, we've got some female listeners.

599
00:28:41.560 --> 00:28:44.320
We've occasionally had questions in the past. We

600
00:28:44.320 --> 00:28:47.240
have, uh, one, uh, person who

601
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:49.720
is a pilot. She flies across the

602
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.340
Atlantic and looks at the stars and sends us notes, uh,

603
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:53.600
about what she see.

604
00:28:53.840 --> 00:28:55.840
Heidi Campo: That's such a beautiful picture.

605
00:28:56.800 --> 00:28:59.640
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, isn't it great? And so, uh, yeah, I

606
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.440
agree we should shout out to our female space

607
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.240
nuts listeners. Get your questions in. We'd love to hear from

608
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:06.260
you all.

609
00:29:06.260 --> 00:29:08.760
Heidi Campo: Ah, righty then. Well, you heard it from the man

610
00:29:08.760 --> 00:29:11.640
himself. Um, and you probably only maybe,

611
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.640
maybe only a few more weeks with me. So send in your questions.

612
00:29:14.840 --> 00:29:17.360
Um, if you have any sci fi related questions

613
00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:20.820
about favorite sci fi books and whatnot. Because Andrew

614
00:29:20.820 --> 00:29:23.660
is going to be back soon. We're not quite sure

615
00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:26.540
when, but we've got a few more weeks left of me, and then,

616
00:29:26.840 --> 00:29:29.740
um, Andrew will be back as your host. But till

617
00:29:29.740 --> 00:29:32.500
then, you're stuck with me and I thank you all for

618
00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:35.180
listening. Till next time. See you later.

619
00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:39.180
Generic: You've been listening to the Space Nuts podcast,

620
00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:43.170
available at Apple podcasts, Spotify,

621
00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:46.010
iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast

622
00:29:46.010 --> 00:29:47.770
player. You can also stream on

623
00:29:47.770 --> 00:29:50.490
demand at bitesz.com This has been

624
00:29:50.490 --> 00:29:52.770
another quality podcast production from

625
00:29:52.770 --> 00:29:53.970
bitesz.com