Cosmic Fireballs and Astronaut Legends

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Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another fun and

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exciting episode of space nuts.

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Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,

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2, 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,

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3, 2', 1. Space nuts. Astronauts

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report it feels good.

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Heidi Campo: On your host for this episode, Heidi Campo. And joining

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us today is Professor Fred Watson,

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astronomer at large for. Fred, how are you

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doing today? You've been quite busy.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I've been traveling a little bit. Just uh, down

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to the nation's capital, the city of Canberra, which

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is uh, about three and a half hour drive

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from here on a road that's really pretty good because

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it's sort of dual carriageway all the way, so you

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don't have to worry about not being able to

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pass heavy trucks and things. Um, but it had

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a. The drive down on Sunday evening, uh,

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had a little bit of astronomical interest

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because, uh, as I was

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getting the Acambra, which is down to the south of us,

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um, and approaching the state of Victoria, which is

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still quite a long way away. But never mind, that's where I was approaching.

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Um, I saw a fireball, uh,

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uh, a, uh, bright meteor, very bright

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meteor. Uh, it was, uh, right in my field of

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vision. Uh, so the car must have been pointing kind of

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southwest. Uh, this thing was probably

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15, 20 degrees above the horizon.

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Uh, came in, uh, very bright

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green fireball, green coming

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from partly the atmospheric oxygen, partly from

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the iron in the object. Uh, and

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sort of, I guess it lasted for maybe

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0.9 of a second, something like that,

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uh, and then at the end just disappeared in an orange dot. But,

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uh, the next morning the media were full of this,

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uh, meteor that had been seen in Victoria,

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the state of Victoria, which was probably a good

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300km from where I was. Um, and

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uh, some people said they heard the sonic boom that

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went with it. So there's a big media blitz.

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Yesterday I got a, um, call from

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one of the radio stations to talk about it

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yesterday afternoon actually on the drive back. So,

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yeah, a really exciting thing. Um,

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I've seen, ah, being an astronomer and used to

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work at night, I've seen a lot of those,

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um, well, by a lot, maybe a

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dozen throughout my working life where you see something

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bright enough to light up the landscape. Uh, but

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it's quite a long time since I've seen one. So it was good

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to reconnect with the world of, uh, immediate, uh,

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astronomy where the Earth is plowing up bits of

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dust and debris through the atmosphere.

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Heidi Campo: Well, it really. And when you do see them, it's such an

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amazing experience. I remember I'VE seen a few

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of them in my lifetime. I think just three. But the

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one really brilliant one that I remember,

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um, I want to ask you if my memory has

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inserted this sound into it or if this is possible.

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But it was so bright and it was sparkling, like, like

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magical. Like some animator had put sparkles in the

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sky.

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Professor Fred Watson: Okay.

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Heidi Campo: And it's just sparkling and glitzing across the sky.

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And I can swear in my memory I hear

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like, almost like the firecracker sound or like the sound like a

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sparkler makes as it's going across the sky.

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But I'm like, man, is my memory just inserting that sound

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because that's what it looks like, or did it really make that sound?

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, so the. The issue with these

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things, if that was a meteor and it sounds though it was,

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um, um. And a fireball is a bright meteor,

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there is a definition. I can't remember what it is as to how bright

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it. It has to become to be called a fireball.

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Well, did you see any color in it? In the. In the

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crackles? Could you see any colors or.

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Sorry. In the. I remember pops.

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Heidi Campo: The biggest. The biggest memory I have is the pops of

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color.

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Professor Fred Watson: Like just.

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Heidi Campo: Just like a sparkler.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, the thing

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is that, um, where they hit the atmosphere, it's about

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90 kilometers, 60 miles up,

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uh, in the air. And so

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it's too far away to

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technically to hear, um, the

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sound it makes as it's just as it's

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exploding. But, um, the fact that it is

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moving so fast through the atmosphere means that you

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sometimes do get a sonic boom, uh, which

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is the bang. Uh, and it's a single bang rather than

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set of pops. Uh, but that can be

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up to, um. It can be up to 90

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seconds after you've seen the visual thing

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because it takes that long for the sound wave to propagate

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down through the atmosphere from that height. Um,

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so, um, it may well be that you were, uh, hearing

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something else or it was perhaps, um,

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inserted by your brain as you suggested. Usually,

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uh, the sonic boom will be after any noise,

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will be after the event.

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Heidi Campo: Well, that's good education. It's good to

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always have you as our reference to ask us.

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And speaking of bright stars in

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the sky, we lost a big one.

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And that's our first story today. Jim Lovell.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, A veteran

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astronaut, Uh, a

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name that, for me, you know,

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in the early years of the space age, following

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every move with, uh,

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intense scrutin. Uh, it's a name that's very familiar.

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Jim Lovell. Uh, the commander, uh, of

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not um, sure whether he was the commander, um, he

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was commander of Apollo 13, but

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his earlier mission was Apollo 8. Uh,

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he was on the classic Apollo 8 mission which we talked about a

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couple of episodes ago, uh with the

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earthrise crater. Apollo 8, 1968.

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Um, so uh, he um, was as

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I said, the commander of Apollo 13.

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Uh, I think it was his voice that um,

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uttered those immortal words.

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Houston, we have a problem. When the fuel

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cell exploded in the service module of Apollo 13.

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So very, very famous uh figure,

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his um, supreme ability

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to cope with disaster uh, I

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think was a big contributor into

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the success of Apollo 13. The fact that um,

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the mission, whilst they didn't touched down

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on the moon. I think everybody knows the story. The fuel cell

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exploded on the way out to the moon. They just did a

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translunar orbit, came back,

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uh, and um, essentially

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um, uh did a direct re entry

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uh of the command module and

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landed safely and were picked up. An

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extraordinary story. Uh, the movie is well worth

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watching. Apollo 13, it's pretty accurate. Uh,

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fairly close to the truth. But yeah, I think a lot of the success

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of that was just the cool head of this

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astonish astronaut, uh, who

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um, I think um, retired from the astronaut

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corps not that long afterwards and

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went into business I think. Um, so

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a very very well known name at the time and

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basically uh, somebody who we've

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now lost a link with those

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early years of the space uh,

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adventures, human spaceflight. He was 97

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when he died. A week or so ago.

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Heidi Campo: Yeah. And you know, and I, I, I think, you know, I don't, I,

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I don't really know what his, his lifestyle or health was like.

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But I do know that those personality types, those

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people who are able to stay calm under

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pressure and manage their stress, it really does

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wonders for your health. And the fact that he made it to 97 I think

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is a little bit of a testament to that. So.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's, that's right.

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Heidi Campo: So these are people that we need to remember. They're not just role models

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in space, but they're role models for like how

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to, how to kind of live our life and conduct ourselves

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here on Earth. I think it's a uh, little bit

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cheesy, but it's like, you know, you think of astronauts is just kind of like

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these larger than life superstars in so many ways. And

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it's like they are the, they are the ones who,

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they have to operate well under pressure. And that's a good

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reminder of how we should handle. You know, if someone

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cuts you off in traffic, it's maybe not as dramatic as

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fuel cell exploding, but how can we

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react, um, to those little crises

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here on Earth?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, Yep. Yeah, that's a, that's a really good point, actually.

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Um, you know, it's the whole demeanor of the person that,

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that uh, um,

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it tells you, uh, if you can

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behave like that under those stresses, it, uh,

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tells you that you can probably cope with every. Anything.

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Including being cut off in traffic.

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Heidi Campo: Absolutely. So his character was played by,

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um, Tom Hanks, right?

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's correct. Yes. Yes, indeed.

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In, in the, in the movie. That's right. Um,

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yeah, it just, you know, it's uh,

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it was. And of course it was very early,

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um, in the Apollo missions. It

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was the third mission to land

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on the moon. Apollo 11, the first Apollo 12

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successful. Apollo 13 was going to be the next one. Uh,

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but, um, it didn't happen. Uh,

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and I guess it also illuminated

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not just the character of the person in charge of the

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mission on board the spacecraft, but also the technology

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that was being used. NASA, ah, would have learned lessons

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from that, uh, about the way they handle their fuel

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cells and the design of the fuel cells, just as

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they did with the other major tragedy of the Apollo

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era. Uh, Apollo 1, uh, in which

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three astronauts perished in a fire,

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uh, in the capsule while it was still on the ground. It was

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a sort of dress rehearsal. It wasn't actually a mission.

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Uh, and they were in the space capsule. And um,

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it was at that time that, uh,

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NASA used an all oxygen atmosphere

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within these capsules. But oxygen is very, very

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reactive. It'll burn with anything.

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Uh, and after that they changed that so

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that Apollo 1 actually led to

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major design changes in the Apollo missions,

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uh, as I'm sure Apollo 13 did as.

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Heidi Campo: Yeah, I just, ah, I want to read you guys this last line of the

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article. That was a statement from his family. Um,

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he had four children and his family

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says we will miss his unshakable optimism, his

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sense of humor, and the way he made each of us feel

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like we could do the impossible. I think that's a

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really beautiful line.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

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Heidi Campo: You know, those are the things that we want to remember when we, when

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these people who are larger than life leave us is,

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you know, who's going to be next? Who? How can they inspire

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us to be the next. The next. You know, as we

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are in the Artemis era now. It's going to

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be that next person to fill those shoes.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

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Andrew Dunkley: Let's take a break from the show now to tell you about our sponsor,

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spacenuts and use the code word space nuts at the

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checkout. Now back to the show.

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Professor Fred Watson: 0T and I feel fine.

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Heidi Campo: Space Nuts and there are big shoes to fill. I

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mean there's so much out there.

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And it looks like our next article here, if we'll

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roll right into that is, we're thinking we may have

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just discovered the biggest black hole ever.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

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Heidi Campo: Uh, is this a recent discovery?

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Professor Fred Watson: It is, yes. So, um,

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it's from an object that is

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known. But uh, the research

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that has led to this, which has been done by British uh,

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astronomers, um,

283
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they've analyzed what we already know about

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this object. Uh, and

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uh, it's essentially something

286
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that's very visually appealing to look

287
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at. Um, and it's well known. It's called the

288
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cosmic horseshoe. You uh, can find

289
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it probably on many of the websites.

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Um, uh, uh, because

291
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uh, it's such a visually inspiring thing to look

292
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at. What we've got is a field of

293
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galaxies. These are distant galaxies with one in

294
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particular that's relatively bright. What we call an

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elliptical galaxy. One that doesn't have structure but

296
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around it is an almost complete

297
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circle, uh, of bluish light.

298
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And that is the image of a more

299
00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:07.260
distant galaxy, uh, which is

300
00:14:07.260 --> 00:14:10.260
being distorted by the gravitational field of the

301
00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:13.060
galaxy in the foreground. Um, so the

302
00:14:13.060 --> 00:14:15.860
horseshoe is actually a blurred out

303
00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:18.380
image of a very

304
00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:20.700
distant object behind the

305
00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:24.140
blob of light that you can see in the middle of the horseshoe

306
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because that's the galaxy which is, we call it the lensing

307
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.200
galaxy because it is actually acting like a

308
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lens. The space around that galaxy is being

309
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.800
distorted so that it mimics a lens

310
00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:38.480
that sort of magnifies and distorts the image

311
00:14:38.910 --> 00:14:41.600
uh, of the galaxy behind it. And it's an almost

312
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.560
perfect alignment, uh, where you've got

313
00:14:44.830 --> 00:14:47.520
uh, a galaxy which is

314
00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:50.480
very distant with one immediate,

315
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.680
sorry, one directly in front of it that's much nearer,

316
00:14:54.130 --> 00:14:57.010
uh, but the two are exactly aligned as

317
00:14:57.010 --> 00:14:59.820
uh, seen from our uh, vantage point in our own Milky Way

318
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.820
galaxy. And that alignment produces this

319
00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:05.820
distortion of the image which we call an Einstein ring

320
00:15:06.060 --> 00:15:08.780
because they were predicted by Einstein that

321
00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:11.500
you would see, uh, this distorted

322
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:14.380
view of galaxies. Uh, the

323
00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:17.380
uh, Einstein rings were something he thought we'd never

324
00:15:17.380 --> 00:15:20.340
see. Uh, but we actually started seeing

325
00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:23.260
them in the 1970s when telescopes got sensitive enough

326
00:15:23.260 --> 00:15:25.600
to detect uh, these really

327
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.520
extraordinary structures in space. So that's what

328
00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:31.200
we see. That's the basic observation.

329
00:15:31.520 --> 00:15:33.920
But what has now um,

330
00:15:34.580 --> 00:15:37.360
uh, emerged is detail of

331
00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:40.240
the structure of the nearer

332
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.160
galaxy. The galaxy that's doing the lensing, the one that's

333
00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:46.040
distorting the space. Um, it's about

334
00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:48.880
5.6 billion light years from

335
00:15:49.040 --> 00:15:51.480
our, our own, uh, Milky Way

336
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.370
galaxy. Uh, and what they've done

337
00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:56.850
is the scientists have analyzed

338
00:15:57.250 --> 00:16:00.040
basically the gravitational field, uh,

339
00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.210
around that uh, nearer galaxy,

340
00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:05.970
that one 5.6 billion years light years

341
00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:08.770
away. Um, and from, in

342
00:16:08.770 --> 00:16:11.170
doing that they have been able to estimate

343
00:16:11.890 --> 00:16:14.440
the size of the, um,

344
00:16:15.170 --> 00:16:18.030
the, the, excuse me, the, sorry, um,

345
00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:20.970
I thought it was going to sneeze there, uh, the size of the black

346
00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:23.810
hole at the center of this galaxy. Uh, with.

347
00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:26.870
We think that all galaxies have a supermassive black

348
00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:29.870
hole at their center. If not all of them, certainly most

349
00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:32.490
of them. And this particular one, uh,

350
00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:35.590
indeed has uh, a black hole. And by

351
00:16:35.590 --> 00:16:38.510
analyzing the shape of the cosmic horseshoe, you

352
00:16:38.510 --> 00:16:40.630
can measure its mass.

353
00:16:41.550 --> 00:16:44.150
Uh, and this, um,

354
00:16:45.270 --> 00:16:47.590
I'm just reading this in detail again.

355
00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:51.030
Um, and I think what I'm saying is

356
00:16:51.030 --> 00:16:53.990
not, it's, well it's true, it's not the

357
00:16:53.990 --> 00:16:56.990
real truth of the story, which is the one is

358
00:16:56.990 --> 00:16:59.990
the galaxy that is beyond the one that is being

359
00:16:59.990 --> 00:17:02.630
imaged, the one whose image is being distorted by the

360
00:17:02.630 --> 00:17:05.270
nearer galaxy. Um,

361
00:17:05.550 --> 00:17:08.540
now the size uh,

362
00:17:08.540 --> 00:17:11.230
of that object, uh, is

363
00:17:11.710 --> 00:17:14.510
being estimated from all these distortions.

364
00:17:14.510 --> 00:17:17.470
I'm not telling this story very clearly, Heidi. I apologize

365
00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:20.190
for that. But the bottom line is that they believe

366
00:17:20.350 --> 00:17:23.010
that the uh, that mass of the black

367
00:17:23.010 --> 00:17:25.930
hole at the center of this galaxy, uh, is

368
00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:29.370
something like 36 billion

369
00:17:30.010 --> 00:17:33.010
times the mass of the sun. Uh, and that

370
00:17:33.010 --> 00:17:35.930
will be a record that, that will be a record that the one

371
00:17:35.930 --> 00:17:38.240
at the center of our own galaxy, Sagittarius, uh,

372
00:17:39.050 --> 00:17:41.610
a star is its name,

373
00:17:41.850 --> 00:17:44.850
uh, is only, it's

374
00:17:44.850 --> 00:17:47.770
about 4 million times the mass of

375
00:17:47.770 --> 00:17:50.756
the sun. So this one is something like 10,

376
00:17:50.884 --> 00:17:53.660
10,000 times bigger, uh, than the

377
00:17:53.660 --> 00:17:56.470
one that we are seeing. Uh,

378
00:17:56.530 --> 00:17:59.420
uh, uh, sorry, the one that, the one that we have at the center of our

379
00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:01.860
own galaxy. So it's uh, really

380
00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:04.740
um, quite remarkable that you can

381
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.380
glean this sort of information from

382
00:18:08.150 --> 00:18:11.140
uh, looking at structures in space which are,

383
00:18:11.370 --> 00:18:14.180
ah, remarkable in their appearance. They're quite beautiful.

384
00:18:14.610 --> 00:18:17.100
Um, but tell you a lot about

385
00:18:17.340 --> 00:18:20.220
what's going on, the absolute, the actual physical

386
00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.620
properties of what's going on out there in space.

387
00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:26.060
So a system of two galaxies, one of which has the record

388
00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:28.060
breaking black hole at its center.

389
00:18:29.260 --> 00:18:31.939
Heidi Campo: That's amazing. Uh, to be the person who

390
00:18:31.939 --> 00:18:34.660
discovered that would be pretty exciting. Until

391
00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:36.220
we find another bigger one.

392
00:18:36.300 --> 00:18:39.060
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Um, yeah, there's nothing like a

393
00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:41.710
record breaker is there, for kind of

394
00:18:41.710 --> 00:18:44.710
attracting people's attention. It's the headline that

395
00:18:44.710 --> 00:18:47.350
you always want to be able to make. The biggest or the most

396
00:18:47.350 --> 00:18:50.270
distant or the faintest or the, or

397
00:18:50.270 --> 00:18:53.110
the um, uh, mostest. The mostest.

398
00:18:53.110 --> 00:18:56.030
Yeah. I do remember um, once being able to do

399
00:18:56.030 --> 00:18:58.150
a radio recorder radio program

400
00:18:58.710 --> 00:19:01.710
about the most distant objects known at

401
00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:04.390
that time. This was back in 1982, believe it or not.

402
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.270
Uh, the discovery of a, is actually a

403
00:19:07.270 --> 00:19:10.230
quasar discovered by the Anglo Australian telescope here in

404
00:19:10.230 --> 00:19:13.180
Australia. I was actually in Scotland at the time and I recorded an

405
00:19:13.330 --> 00:19:16.090
interview about this object which was the most

406
00:19:16.090 --> 00:19:18.210
distant object ever discovered.

407
00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.650
Um, I listened for it on the radio

408
00:19:21.650 --> 00:19:24.610
the following morning, um, but there was no sign of it

409
00:19:24.610 --> 00:19:27.410
because that was the day that Argentina invaded the

410
00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:30.290
Falkland Islands, which was very, very big news

411
00:19:30.290 --> 00:19:33.210
in the uk. So all astronomical stories

412
00:19:33.210 --> 00:19:36.090
just got wiped. So my first radio

413
00:19:36.090 --> 00:19:39.010
interview ended up on the cutting room floor thanks to

414
00:19:39.250 --> 00:19:42.130
geopolitical events beyond my commercial troll.

415
00:19:43.090 --> 00:19:44.850
Heidi Campo: That's a bummer. Well now look at you.

416
00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:48.130
Professor Fred Watson: Well, there you go. Yeah, that's right. Indeed,

417
00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:48.910
that's true.

418
00:19:48.910 --> 00:19:51.810
Heidi Campo: Uh, looking at this image, it's called the Horseshoe, but

419
00:19:51.810 --> 00:19:54.770
it almost reminds Me, you nerds out there. If you guys are looking

420
00:19:54.770 --> 00:19:57.769
at this image, you'll appreciate this. It reminds

421
00:19:57.769 --> 00:20:00.650
me of, um, the, the franchise Alien,

422
00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:03.490
of the alien embryo with the tail wrapping around

423
00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:06.930
when it's rolled up in the egg. That's what it looks like to me

424
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.410
is, uh, the alien logo. So that's a, uh,

425
00:20:10.410 --> 00:20:13.120
that's a little bit kind of eerie. What if there's a.

426
00:20:13.600 --> 00:20:15.600
Some kind of creature in there?

427
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.880
Professor Fred Watson: There could be. Who knows, somebody, you know, some,

428
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.560
some creature that likes black holes.

429
00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:22.960
Heidi Campo: Would that be. Would that be something?

430
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.480
Well, one thing we do know finally

431
00:20:26.800 --> 00:20:29.520
is why the rover kept getting

432
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.520
stuck. And we have finally figured out how

433
00:20:32.520 --> 00:20:35.200
to unstuck stick this poor little rover.

434
00:20:36.560 --> 00:20:39.040
Professor Fred Watson: It's true. Um, so,

435
00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:41.600
uh, NASA's rovers

436
00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:44.640
and the four that come to mind are Spirit and

437
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.640
Opportunity in the early 2000s,

438
00:20:47.230 --> 00:20:49.920
uh, and curiosity I think

439
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.560
2012, uh, and

440
00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:55.560
perseverance 2021. Those

441
00:20:55.560 --> 00:20:58.560
are the, what you might call the iconic rovers

442
00:20:59.170 --> 00:21:02.130
on the lunar surface. There are more. Uh, Tianwen 1

443
00:21:02.130 --> 00:21:05.000
is the Chinese one, which I think is now, uh,

444
00:21:05.730 --> 00:21:08.730
defunct. I think, um, its batteries ran

445
00:21:08.730 --> 00:21:11.410
out. And there were other, earlier

446
00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:14.330
NASA ones, if I remember. Sojourner was one of the

447
00:21:14.330 --> 00:21:17.330
first ones. But, um, these rovers,

448
00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:20.450
uh, pretty well all of them have six wheels,

449
00:21:20.850 --> 00:21:23.570
uh, which are sort of independently controlled.

450
00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:26.850
They're fitted with tires that are made of kind of

451
00:21:26.850 --> 00:21:29.530
springy metal, um, with indentations,

452
00:21:30.110 --> 00:21:33.050
uh, in them, uh, in order to

453
00:21:33.290 --> 00:21:36.090
get purchase on the sandy

454
00:21:36.090 --> 00:21:39.050
soil of Mars. But as you say,

455
00:21:39.050 --> 00:21:41.770
they, they do occasionally get stuck.

456
00:21:42.270 --> 00:21:43.850
Uh, and in fact, um,

457
00:21:44.250 --> 00:21:47.250
sometimes that getting bogged, as

458
00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:50.170
we would perhaps call it, is, um, in

459
00:21:50.170 --> 00:21:53.090
Australian parlance, anyway. You got your car bogged,

460
00:21:53.090 --> 00:21:55.530
did you? Yeah, well, you got your rover bogged.

461
00:21:55.770 --> 00:21:58.750
It's um, that's a, uh, basically sometimes

462
00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:01.630
led to the end of the life of some of

463
00:22:01.630 --> 00:22:04.430
these rovers. I think Spirit was one that got

464
00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:07.310
bogged and perhaps, um, Opportunity as well.

465
00:22:08.070 --> 00:22:11.070
Uh, now the reason why this

466
00:22:11.070 --> 00:22:13.870
is, uh, a bit of a pain for

467
00:22:13.950 --> 00:22:16.910
NASA engineers is that when they

468
00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:18.990
do the modeling of how

469
00:22:19.710 --> 00:22:22.270
a rover with the metal

470
00:22:22.270 --> 00:22:24.780
tires will behave in

471
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.780
an environment where the gravity is only a third

472
00:22:28.780 --> 00:22:30.960
of what the Earth's gravity is, uh,

473
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.740
they do the modeling and it says that they shouldn't get

474
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:37.670
bugged. Um, uh, it's uh,

475
00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:40.220
you know, that they shouldn't actually have this

476
00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:43.130
phenomenon. They uh, shouldn't get stuck, uh,

477
00:22:43.130 --> 00:22:45.750
in the soil of Mars. Uh,

478
00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:48.820
and so they've looked at this

479
00:22:48.820 --> 00:22:50.850
problem again and

480
00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:54.130
essentially solved it. As you've

481
00:22:54.130 --> 00:22:56.930
said, Heidi. Um, what they've done

482
00:22:57.490 --> 00:22:59.970
is look not just at

483
00:23:00.530 --> 00:23:03.450
the way the lower gravity makes the

484
00:23:03.450 --> 00:23:06.330
rover itself behave, but the way the

485
00:23:06.330 --> 00:23:09.050
lower gravity makes the sand that

486
00:23:09.050 --> 00:23:11.250
they're trying to drive through behave.

487
00:23:11.930 --> 00:23:14.770
Uh, and when they use these

488
00:23:14.890 --> 00:23:17.770
uh, simulations, including the gravitational,

489
00:23:17.770 --> 00:23:20.530
the lower gravitational force on the dust particles

490
00:23:20.530 --> 00:23:23.390
themselves, um, then they

491
00:23:23.390 --> 00:23:26.270
realize that why they're getting stuck.

492
00:23:26.590 --> 00:23:29.470
Oh, well, they're obviously going to get stuck if you,

493
00:23:29.470 --> 00:23:32.270
if you do that. Uh, it's a, ah, it's

494
00:23:32.270 --> 00:23:35.030
a. Basically they've used, this is a number

495
00:23:35.030 --> 00:23:37.869
of uh, uh, scientists who've

496
00:23:37.869 --> 00:23:40.510
used a, a, uh, physics

497
00:23:40.510 --> 00:23:43.310
engine, um, Project Chrono it's

498
00:23:43.310 --> 00:23:45.550
called. Uh, and they've used that to

499
00:23:46.030 --> 00:23:47.650
essentially disentangle uh,

500
00:23:49.100 --> 00:23:51.740
what causes this bogging the

501
00:23:52.060 --> 00:23:54.980
wheels to get stuck. And that's the conclusion

502
00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:57.780
they've come to. If you take into account uh,

503
00:23:57.820 --> 00:24:00.780
the lower gravity and its

504
00:24:00.780 --> 00:24:02.620
effect on the sand particles themselves,

505
00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:06.740
uh, you're going to get stuck from time to time.

506
00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:09.420
And indeed they do. Now

507
00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:11.670
will that help, uh,

508
00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:15.500
the people who drive these rovers, Will it help them to get the,

509
00:24:15.790 --> 00:24:18.590
the vehicle's unstuck? And the answer is probably

510
00:24:18.590 --> 00:24:21.550
yes. These people have for long

511
00:24:21.870 --> 00:24:24.710
had um, I guess tricks, you might

512
00:24:24.710 --> 00:24:27.630
call them techniques is probably a more sober word,

513
00:24:27.870 --> 00:24:30.670
uh, to try and unstick stuck, uh, up

514
00:24:30.670 --> 00:24:33.590
Mars rovers, uh, usually it's pretty well

515
00:24:33.590 --> 00:24:36.590
what you do here on Earth. Try and drive the thing backwards and forwards until

516
00:24:36.590 --> 00:24:39.550
it comes unstuck. Um, they might

517
00:24:39.550 --> 00:24:42.520
be able to modify those techniques in the light of

518
00:24:42.520 --> 00:24:45.480
this new information that uh, you have to take into account the

519
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.440
lower gravity on um, the dust itself and

520
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:49.680
not just the spacecraft.

521
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.360
Heidi Campo: Wow.

522
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.680
Professor Fred Watson: Sounds pretty obvious really, doesn't it Fred?

523
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.520
Heidi Campo: Have you ever seen ah, one of these like, up close,

524
00:24:58.760 --> 00:25:01.200
um, like models of them?

525
00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:03.440
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, uh, I have indeed.

526
00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:06.480
Um, uh, the most memorable one

527
00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:08.960
actually is uh, it's in

528
00:25:09.380 --> 00:25:12.150
uh, in Flagstaff, Arizona and

529
00:25:12.310 --> 00:25:14.990
it's actually the lunar rover. It's one of the lunar

530
00:25:14.990 --> 00:25:17.970
rovers that went with the Apollo astronauts. Uh,

531
00:25:18.550 --> 00:25:21.270
I think it was the last four

532
00:25:21.350 --> 00:25:24.190
Apollo missions, I can't remember the exact number, carried a

533
00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:26.950
rover to carry the astronauts around on the

534
00:25:26.950 --> 00:25:29.870
moon. Uh, and there's not

535
00:25:29.870 --> 00:25:32.830
just a replica, it was a prototype model. It's

536
00:25:32.830 --> 00:25:35.770
in the foyer of one of the uh,

537
00:25:35.850 --> 00:25:38.850
geological science centers, I think in Flagstaff, Arizona.

538
00:25:38.850 --> 00:25:41.530
And it's sitting there and you can see how big it is,

539
00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:45.770
you know, just the extraordinary size of it. But

540
00:25:45.770 --> 00:25:48.650
the, the um, uh, and I have seen models

541
00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:51.489
of some of the other ones I think Spirit and Opportunity, they're in various

542
00:25:51.489 --> 00:25:54.290
museums that I've had the great privilege to visit

543
00:25:54.290 --> 00:25:57.210
in your wonderful country, Heidi. Uh, and

544
00:25:57.290 --> 00:26:00.170
Always, uh, take away very warm memories of those

545
00:26:00.170 --> 00:26:00.970
museums.

546
00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:04.050
Heidi Campo: That's good. Yeah, that was what I was going to say is. I think

547
00:26:04.050 --> 00:26:06.940
the surprising thing is we don't realize the

548
00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:09.340
scale of these when we see images of them.

549
00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:12.140
And so to think something this

550
00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:15.180
massive is getting stuck. It's not like

551
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.140
your little, you know, whatever vehicle you drive. I have a

552
00:26:18.140 --> 00:26:21.020
little, um, Subaru. Ah, Crosstrek. It's not like your little

553
00:26:21.020 --> 00:26:23.900
Subaru Crosstrek gets its wheel stuck in a little

554
00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:26.740
ditch. It's like this is a mammoth of a

555
00:26:26.740 --> 00:26:29.420
machine and for it to get stuck is a

556
00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:31.020
big, big bottleness.

557
00:26:31.450 --> 00:26:33.970
Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Certainly Spirit, uh, sorry, Curiosity and

558
00:26:33.970 --> 00:26:36.410
Perseverance, which are very similar. They're basically the same,

559
00:26:36.730 --> 00:26:39.290
the same rover. They are big machines.

560
00:26:39.530 --> 00:26:42.410
Absolutely. As you say, size, uh, of a

561
00:26:42.410 --> 00:26:44.250
bigger car than yours. I think.

562
00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:49.370
Heidi Campo: I always think of them like little, uh, like Wall E, the robot

563
00:26:49.370 --> 00:26:52.250
from the Pixar animated series. Tiny Things.

564
00:26:52.570 --> 00:26:55.210
Professor Fred Watson: Good old Wall E. Yeah, I'd forgotten about Wally.

565
00:26:55.850 --> 00:26:56.970
Heidi Campo: That was a cute one.

566
00:26:57.290 --> 00:26:58.370
Professor Fred Watson: A very cute one.

567
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:01.960
Heidi Campo: Well, Fred, those, those cover our stories for

568
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:02.280
today.

569
00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:05.320
Did you, uh, have anything you wanted to add to

570
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:06.760
anything that we talked about?

571
00:27:07.600 --> 00:27:10.400
Professor Fred Watson: Um, I did have a comment and I forgot what it

572
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.920
was. I was gonna make another comment about,

573
00:27:13.560 --> 00:27:16.500
uh, about the rovers. Uh, the, uh,

574
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:19.360
you know, you know that the thing that

575
00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:22.360
I, I guess just to highlight what you've just been saying that these are

576
00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:25.290
big machines. It's also the

577
00:27:25.290 --> 00:27:27.410
complexity of them and the

578
00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:30.130
ingenuity. Uh, and yes,

579
00:27:30.850 --> 00:27:33.770
this has reminded me of what I was going to say. Uh,

580
00:27:33.970 --> 00:27:36.930
another story that's been in the headlines this

581
00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:39.930
week, uh, is the head of

582
00:27:39.930 --> 00:27:42.770
NASA the acting head of NASA suggesting

583
00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:45.410
that by 2000s,

584
00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:48.530
uh, NASA will want to deploy a nuclear

585
00:27:48.530 --> 00:27:51.490
reactor on the moon? I don't know whether you caught that story.

586
00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:54.920
Uh, in order to be able to provide electrical power,

587
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.760
it's one 100 kilowatt nuclear

588
00:27:57.760 --> 00:28:00.760
reactor they're talking about. And the reason why I remember

589
00:28:00.760 --> 00:28:03.400
I was thinking about that in the context of rovers

590
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.360
is that Curiosity, uh, and

591
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:09.400
Perseverance both carry effectively

592
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:12.360
nuclear reactors. They're not reactors in the same sense.

593
00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:15.480
And, uh, they're only delivering 100 watts rather than

594
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.720
100 kilowatts. But they're called

595
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:20.720
radioisotope thermoelectric generators. They are carried

596
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.600
on board, uh, both Spirit and Opportunity and

597
00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:26.580
a number of other spacecraft like the Voyagers have them on

598
00:28:26.580 --> 00:28:29.300
board as well to generate the power that they need.

599
00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.340
Uh, so, um, you know, the idea of nuclear,

600
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.620
uh, processes, uh, in space to power

601
00:28:36.020 --> 00:28:38.820
missions is Not a new one. It's just that

602
00:28:38.820 --> 00:28:41.740
the idea of 100 kilowatt nuclear reactor on the moon

603
00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:44.680
is a little bit bigger than some of the other ones. Um,

604
00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:47.060
that was the additional comment I was going to make.

605
00:28:47.540 --> 00:28:50.460
Heidi Campo: Well, that. And that's just, ah, uh, so valuable to just

606
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:53.140
think of the size and scale and power of these

607
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:56.380
because I think, you know, we, we hit the little memes of

608
00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:59.280
it's singing Happy Birthday to itself. And

609
00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:01.400
again, we think of them as just these cute little,

610
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.040
small, fragile little things. And they're not.

611
00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:07.760
They're huge, powerful, massive

612
00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:10.600
machines. And so the fact that we're now

613
00:29:10.600 --> 00:29:13.600
learning how to, you know, improve on how

614
00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:16.400
we're handling them on this soil is really fun

615
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.800
and exciting. There's always, there's always

616
00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:21.760
breakthroughs every week. Every week there's new

617
00:29:21.760 --> 00:29:24.720
breakthroughs. There's new things we discover and learn and do and

618
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.500
see and. Such an exciting, exciting

619
00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:30.300
time to be a part of the space industry, is it not?

620
00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:31.700
Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Absolutely.

621
00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:36.060
Heidi Campo: Well, Fred, this has been, uh, wonderful chatting with

622
00:29:36.060 --> 00:29:39.060
you today. Thank you so much. And for all of

623
00:29:39.060 --> 00:29:41.300
you who have been missing Andrew, he

624
00:29:41.780 --> 00:29:44.340
is still enjoying his world cruise.

625
00:29:44.580 --> 00:29:47.420
I forgot to mention Andrew at the beginning of the episode, if

626
00:29:47.420 --> 00:29:50.340
you're new here. Um, Andrew is normally

627
00:29:50.340 --> 00:29:53.030
our host and he's been on a world

628
00:29:53.030 --> 00:29:55.830
cruise lately. But he will be

629
00:29:55.830 --> 00:29:58.750
back in a few weeks. So you guys only have me

630
00:29:58.750 --> 00:30:01.670
for a few short weeks left. So send in.

631
00:30:01.780 --> 00:30:04.710
Um, our next episode will be a Q and A episode. So keep

632
00:30:04.710 --> 00:30:07.590
sending in your Q and A's to us and

633
00:30:07.590 --> 00:30:10.550
we'll answer those. And you'll only have me for a

634
00:30:10.550 --> 00:30:12.150
few more weeks before Andrew's back.

635
00:30:12.390 --> 00:30:15.150
Professor Fred Watson: It's been fabulous. Actually, Heidi, just

636
00:30:15.150 --> 00:30:17.030
my comment on that. It's been wonderful.

637
00:30:18.070 --> 00:30:20.790
You've, uh, risen to the challenge of, um,

638
00:30:21.350 --> 00:30:23.630
duplicating Andrew Dunkley, um,

639
00:30:24.470 --> 00:30:27.070
in ways that even Andrew

640
00:30:27.070 --> 00:30:28.950
Dunkley can't achieve. There you go.

641
00:30:29.510 --> 00:30:32.270
Heidi Campo: Well, thank you so much. All right, everybody.

642
00:30:32.270 --> 00:30:35.130
Well, we are looking forward to, um,

643
00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:38.070
catching you with our next episode, which will be a Q and A

644
00:30:38.070 --> 00:30:40.710
episode. Till then, we'll talk to you later.

645
00:30:41.110 --> 00:30:43.150
Andrew Dunkley: Hi, Heidi. Hi, Fred. Hi, Huw.

646
00:30:43.150 --> 00:30:46.070
In the studio, it's Andrew on the Crown Princess. As

647
00:30:46.070 --> 00:30:48.620
we get to the last latter stages of our

648
00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:51.740
world cruise. And since I spoke to you

649
00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:54.540
last, we have been right up to the very top of

650
00:30:54.540 --> 00:30:57.020
Norway. We made our first stop in

651
00:30:57.100 --> 00:30:59.900
Bergen, and that is just

652
00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:02.620
a wonderful sailing through the fjords,

653
00:31:02.780 --> 00:31:05.620
under the big bridges, uh, right into Bergen.

654
00:31:05.620 --> 00:31:08.580
And, uh, what we did was a little day trip out

655
00:31:08.580 --> 00:31:11.360
into the country where we visited uh,

656
00:31:11.420 --> 00:31:14.030
some amazing um, sites. We uh,

657
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.120
waterfalls, uh, a little shopping or not a shopping

658
00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:20.120
village, a little fishing village type of place and

659
00:31:20.120 --> 00:31:22.600
just had a really good look around the fjords and the

660
00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:25.520
waterfalls and the landscape. Just a beautiful country.

661
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.960
Of course Norway uh, uh, is a

662
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.600
very forward thinking country, very ah, liberal.

663
00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:34.560
Attitude towards a lot of things. And they

664
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.440
generate 98% of their

665
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.090
electricity through hydro power.

666
00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:43.650
Uh, so um, yeah, quite amazing. The downside of

667
00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:46.650
Norway is it doesn't have a lot of usable land because

668
00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:49.490
it's so mountainous. And if it's not mountains

669
00:31:49.490 --> 00:31:51.770
it's water because of the fjords. And

670
00:31:52.290 --> 00:31:55.250
uh, so they don't have much land to, to live on, let

671
00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:58.130
alone use for things like agriculture. So they're kind of

672
00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:00.850
trapped in that regard. After that we went

673
00:32:00.850 --> 00:32:03.590
to uh, another um,

674
00:32:03.610 --> 00:32:05.610
place in Norway, uh, where

675
00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:09.490
sh, uh, Shoulden I think it's

676
00:32:09.490 --> 00:32:12.410
pronounced. Yeah. And we went and looked

677
00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.130
at a glacier, the biggest glacier in Europe.

678
00:32:15.810 --> 00:32:18.730
Uh, we couldn't get too close to it but uh, just a

679
00:32:19.290 --> 00:32:22.290
spectacle to behold, uh, getting um, that close to

680
00:32:22.290 --> 00:32:25.210
one, uh, and being able to photograph it. And

681
00:32:25.290 --> 00:32:28.130
you could feel the wind coming off it. It was a warm

682
00:32:28.130 --> 00:32:30.730
day. But when you get to the glacier it just um,

683
00:32:31.050 --> 00:32:34.010
blows this chill wind off the mountains and um, yeah

684
00:32:34.010 --> 00:32:36.730
you can really feel the difference. And the water coming off that

685
00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:39.690
glacier as it melts and it's melting a lot faster than

686
00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:42.490
it ever has before is a beautiful aqua

687
00:32:42.490 --> 00:32:45.010
blue as it flows down into the fjord.

688
00:32:45.810 --> 00:32:48.530
And then we went to Honingsvag

689
00:32:48.850 --> 00:32:51.730
and uh, that's right up north and, and

690
00:32:51.730 --> 00:32:54.410
took a um, a look around uh,

691
00:32:54.410 --> 00:32:57.090
Nord Cap, otherwise known as north

692
00:32:57.090 --> 00:32:59.860
cape on the 71st parallel, uh, right

693
00:32:59.860 --> 00:33:02.860
inside the Arctic Circle. And they used to

694
00:33:02.860 --> 00:33:05.540
think it was the end of the world because well there is

695
00:33:05.540 --> 00:33:08.370
practically nothing north of that except for a few islands, uh,

696
00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:11.980
and then the uh, the ice cap, uh, and,

697
00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:14.580
and the 24 hour daylight is something to

698
00:33:14.580 --> 00:33:17.420
behold. I went up on the deck at midnight to have a

699
00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:20.060
look one night and there was

700
00:33:20.300 --> 00:33:23.260
like it was daytime, the sun had set. We've

701
00:33:23.260 --> 00:33:26.190
reached a point in the year where the sun does set for

702
00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:28.790
two hours but it doesn't get dark.

703
00:33:29.270 --> 00:33:31.910
So no northern lights, no northern lights.

704
00:33:32.390 --> 00:33:35.270
After that trip, uh, or visit, we started

705
00:33:35.270 --> 00:33:37.590
heading southwest, uh, and

706
00:33:37.830 --> 00:33:40.710
we're heading towards Iceland. So

707
00:33:40.710 --> 00:33:43.710
that's our next stop, uh, which is due to happen

708
00:33:43.710 --> 00:33:46.550
tomorrow our time. By the time you get this we'll have done it

709
00:33:46.550 --> 00:33:48.390
already. Uh, we'll be visiting

710
00:33:48.470 --> 00:33:51.320
Reykjavik and uh, essence of a

711
00:33:51.320 --> 00:33:54.000
jaw, which is not how you pronounce it.

712
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.960
I said North Cape. Mentioned all that. Weren't you listening? My

713
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.680
wife's come in to remind me to tell you we went to North

714
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:01.200
Cape.

715
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.680
Can25,000 of you email

716
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:07.440
her and tell her I actually did it.

717
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.720
Got. Got. I got a look. I got a look.

718
00:34:11.720 --> 00:34:14.600
No, yeah, we did. We did that. Dude, I've

719
00:34:14.600 --> 00:34:17.350
done all that. Um, and. And, yeah. Uh,

720
00:34:17.350 --> 00:34:20.170
so should I do it again? No, I won't.

721
00:34:20.170 --> 00:34:23.000
Uh, but, um, looking forward to the rest of our trip.

722
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.600
Only a couple of more stops, as I said. Iceland, Greenland,

723
00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:28.360
Halifax, and then we're getting off in New York,

724
00:34:28.520 --> 00:34:30.840
which, uh, is not that far away now.

725
00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:34.000
All right, that's about it. Hope all is. Oh, I forgot to

726
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.960
mention. That's the thing I forgot to mention. I've met a Space Nuts

727
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.920
listener on board. Oddly enough, we met

728
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:42.800
in a toilet. That happens on cruise ships, because you need

729
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.670
to go there a lot. Um, but, yeah, it

730
00:34:45.670 --> 00:34:48.510
was nice to catch up. My name escapes you. I tried to look up the

731
00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:51.320
message when you told me you were getting on at Dover, uh,

732
00:34:51.510 --> 00:34:54.390
and I couldn't find it. So my apologies. I know you're

733
00:34:54.390 --> 00:34:57.030
listening, but it was great to run into you. If you run into us again,

734
00:34:57.190 --> 00:35:00.070
please, let's have another chat. Uh, but, yeah,

735
00:35:00.070 --> 00:35:02.630
at least one Space Nuts listener on board the Crown

736
00:35:02.630 --> 00:35:05.550
Princess. That's it for now. Take care. Talk to you soon.

737
00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:06.230
Bye. Bye.

738
00:35:07.350 --> 00:35:10.150
Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts. Podcast.

739
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.480
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

740
00:35:14.640 --> 00:35:17.440
iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast

741
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:19.760
player. You can also stream on demand at

742
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.190
bitesz.com This has been another quality

743
00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:24.430
podcast production from Bitesz.com