Feb. 12, 2026

Cosmic Dust in a Jar, Volcanic Eruptions on Io & Following the Coal to Find Extraterrestrial Life

Cosmic Dust in a Jar, Volcanic Eruptions on Io & Following the Coal to Find Extraterrestrial Life

Sponsor Link: https://incogni.com/spacenuts Cosmic Dust in a Jar, Volcanic Eruptions on Io, and the Quest for Intelligent Life In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into a series of captivating...

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Sponsor Link:
www.incogni.com/spacenuts 

Cosmic Dust in a Jar, Volcanic Eruptions on Io, and the Quest for Intelligent Life
In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into a series of captivating cosmic stories that will spark your imagination. From the groundbreaking creation of cosmic dust in a lab to the simultaneous volcanic eruptions on Jupiter's moon Io, this episode is a treasure trove of astronomical insights.
Episode Highlights:
Cosmic Dust in a Jar: A Sydney PhD student has synthesized cosmic dust in a laboratory setting. Andrew and Fred discuss the implications of this breakthrough for our understanding of how complex organic molecules form in space, and whether this could reduce the need for future space missions to gather samples from asteroids.
Simultaneous Volcanic Eruptions on Io: The hosts explore the extraordinary event of five volcanoes erupting at once on Io, revealing insights into the moon’s geological activity. They discuss the gravitational forces at play and how this discovery challenges previous theories about Io's solid interior.
Follow the Coal to Find Intelligent Life: A new theory suggests that the presence of coal may be a key factor in the development of intelligent civilizations. Andrew and Fred unpack the idea that access to natural resources could influence technological advancement, raising questions about the rarity of intelligent life in the universe.

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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

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WEBVTT

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Hi there, thanks for joining us. This is Space Nuts.

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My name is Andrew Dunkley and it's always good to

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have your company. I hope you're well. Coming up on

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this episode we will be discussing these things. A Sydney

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PhD student has created cosmic dust in a jar, probably

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not quite a jar, but pretty close to a jar.

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So how did they do it? And what does this mean?

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Does it mean we'll never have to go out the

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space again? Possibly? Anyway, that's a really good story, this one.

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Because I'm a bit of a volcano junkie. Simultaneous volcanic

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eruptions have been recorded on EO, one of Jupiter's moons,

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and it's a very rare event. In fact, I think

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it's the first time it's been recorded as far as

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I'm aware.

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So we'll look at that, and here.

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Is a line for the ages, find the coal, and

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we find the people. That's all coming up in this

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episode of Space Nuts back of the Channel ten nine

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ignition Space Nuts or three two Space Nurse, as I

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report it, mels good and here to unravel the revelment

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that is all of those stories is Professor Fred Wat's,

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an astronomer at large.

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Hello Fred, Andrew. I can easily ruvel them all up again.

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I can tell you make them even more revel than

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they were to start with. Yes, well, you know, we

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don't strive for excellence here.

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We never have.

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It's all about adequacytable.

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Sometimes we don't even make adiquousy. No, probably not no, But.

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Some quirky stories today, And I'm very excited about this

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first one because this, I mean, I joked about us

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not having to go back into space and you know,

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intercept asteroids and collect junk from them, because this kind

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of does it for us, and you don't have to

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leave the planet. The Sydney pH d student creating cosmic dust.

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This is quite extraordinary.

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It is.

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It's actually a great story, and it's nice that it's

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got you know, it's got a local flavor to it

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because of the Sydney University connection. I used to have

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an honorary professorship at Sydney University, but I think it's lapsed.

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I think they've got rid of me.

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So as never mind of them, still like dishonoring a chick,

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still happy to sing their praises. Sydney University is pretty good,

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particularly my dad went there. Yeah, that's good anyway, what's

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it all about. It's about a bit of a mystery

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because we now know.

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That, you know, a lot of the.

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Complex organic molecules that we often talk about as the

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building blocks of life, the amino acids and all of

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those sorts of things, we know that they are found

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in space. But what's not been clear is well, two

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things not clear. One is did they find their way

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to Earth? And maybe you know, when we find these chemicals,

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for example, in meteors and in comets, maybe yes, there

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have been collisions that have brought them to Earth. So

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that's a fairly logical step. But the big question has

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been how do they form in the depths of space

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enough quantities that they're quite commonplace? And we know they

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are because we can see a lot.

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Of these.

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Basically these chemicals. It deep in the dust and gas

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clouds that we often analyze, things like the nebulae which

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have got not just gas in them, blowing gas, but

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often clouds of dust as well. And dust is very

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well studied by astronomers using infrared and radio telescopes. In fact,

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one of my close friends who was one of my

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fellow students hundreds of years ago at Saint Andrews made

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his career in studying cosmic dust and the contents of

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that and looking at the way these chemicals come together

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or have been brought together. The question is how do

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they come together? And that's the question that's been asked

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by a team at Sydney University, including the PhD candidate

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who's I think she might be the lead author on

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this paper, Linda Losudo. She has essentially created this synthetic

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version of the cosmic dust that are infrared and radio

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astronomy colleagues measure in clouds of gas and dust. She's

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created it, synthesized it in the laboratory, probably as you said,

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in a jar, with other things as well. And the

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extraordinary thing is that what she's created seems to match

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what these carbonaceous dust particles tell us in space. In

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other words, you know, it seems like a very accurate synthesis.

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So what she did was took a set of gases

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quite simple nitrogen, carbon dioxide and acetylene which also contains

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hydrogen oxygen, these gases in a tube and then basically

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irradiated them with very intense electrical energy. They put ten

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thousand vaults into the tube, which was almost in a vacuum,

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so the pressures are very low, and you actually, if

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you do that, you get these glow discharge phenomena, You

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get colors appearing from the exciting X citation of the atoms.

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But what she also found was that on silicon basically sorry,

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not silicon, silicate silicate fingers within the within the tube,

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they found these tiny particles of dust forming, and when

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they analyze them, they've got exactly the same chemical signature

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as these dust clouds in space. And so what they're

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saying is that these basically these chemicals do form in

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the kind of high energy environment that you find around

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for example, a white dwarf star that's beaming out ultraviolet radiation,

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or in the aftermath of a super and ova, where

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you've got a sort of neutron star which is also

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got high energy processes because the you know, the supernova

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explosion itself creates shockway and things of that sort. So

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she's basically mimicking those conditions and finding that what she

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gets in the jar is what you get in space

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when you see those conditions. So it's a really nice

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piece of work, and congratulations to that.

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Yes, yes, indeed, and I mean I was probably being

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a bit silly suggesting that this is going to replace

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the need to go out and catch asteroids and have

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a scratch around on the surface. We still need to

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do that because they're not all identical. There's going to

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be things to learn from various missions in the future,

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which we've already seen come to fruition in a couple

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of cases. But I suppose what she's done is she's

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opened a door to learning how things happen way out

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in space where we can't even get and maybe coming

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up with ways of looking at these mysteries at a

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local level and kind of putting a bit more light

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on them.

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I suppose, Yeah, that's right, to study them better. And

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you know, I'm sure this is just the beginning of

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a series of experiments that will produce some really interesting results,

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might maybe even give us molecules that are actually closer

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to life molecules than they've already found. So I think

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I think it's a very promising avenue of research.

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It coincides with a story I read last week that

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had nothing to do with astronomy or space dust, but

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it was a science story about a bloke who went

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to a river and took a handful of mud, shoved

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it in a jar and then sealed it off from

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the rest of the world. And he just filled it

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with water and just put it to one side, and

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he left it, and he covered it up, and he

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didn't go back for a couple of months, I think

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it was. And when he came back, it had created

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its own balanced ecosystem, completely separate from the rest of

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the world. New life had come and gone, and a

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species had become dominant, some kind of slug.

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You know. It really does.

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Make you wonder how life hasn't been found anywhere else

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yet if that can be done with a blob of

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mud from a river in a sealed jar. I mean,

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if you opened it, it all dies because they've created their

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own world. But it was an amazing story. I was

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captivated by it that I didn't think it was possible.

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I thought, if you cut off the outside world, that

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would be the end of it. But no, they created

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their own eco system and their own environment and their

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own atmosphere, and yeah, it worked. I didn't think it

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was possible. Now kids are going to be going out

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filling jars with mud and seiling them up.

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This is what's a fascinating experiment.

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Yeah, if you wait a few million years, you john

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like you know, Evolver a dinosaur or something like that World.

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Cood miniature one. You never know. That's a fascinating story

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and this one is too, and you can read about

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it at fizz dot org. And I think the paper

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was published in the Lost It there you go. I

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saw it there a minute ago, but there was a

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paper publisher the Astrophysical Journal there you are, so look

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out for that one. This is Space Narts with Andrew

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Dunkley and Professor Fred what's an Let's take a break

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00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.519
Now this next story is just as fascinating. I guess

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most people will have heard of the moon Eo, which

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orbits Jupiter. It's a very very interesting and somewhat foreboding place.

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It's just absolutely covered in volcanoes and they erupted quite

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a lot. But what's happened in this case is they

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have had five volcanoes erupt simultaneously, which has kind of

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got them wondering what's going on inside.

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Exactly. That's right. In fact, that's the story in the Nutsha.

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So yes, the innermost of the large moons of Jupiter,

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the ones that were discovered by Galileo Buck in sixteen ten.

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It's the nearest one to the planet, and that means

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it feels the strongest and most disruptive, if I can

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put it that way, gravitational pull from Jupiter. So it's

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constantly being squashed and squeezed by the gravitation of Jupiter,

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and that's what we think is the reason behind it's

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very active and dynamic volcanism. It is the most volcanically

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active body in the Solar System. It's not the one

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covered with the most volcanoes. That's actually Venus. But Venus

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may be maybe inactive. Now we don't actually know whether

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Venus's volcanoes are still active. You and I've talked about

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that before, but we definitely know that the ones on

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EO are because we've seen them on many occasions and

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the results that have brought this story to uh, you know,

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to the science media. I have come from our old

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friend Juno. The spacecraft, the orbiting spacecraft NASA spacecraft, which

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is in orbit around around Jupiter, and it's captured basically

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infrared images of the southern polar region of EO, and

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has realized that there are five volcanoes going off at

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the same time. It's so it is really quite an

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extraordinary thing, quite a coincidence. These these volcanoes, they are

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all in the southern south polar region of EO. He

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is about the same size as our moon. It's not

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00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:55.240
a small world. So what they've what they've done is

218
00:14:55.960 --> 00:15:00.639
tried to work out what that means if you've got

219
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.320
first of all, a very violent eruption, that was what

220
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:11.200
drew their attention to this event, but the fact that

221
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:17.120
nearby there were others in sync with the main volcano.

222
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.279
So what I think is coming out of this is

223
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:27.039
the suggestion of a porous or spongy interior for EO,

224
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rather than a solid body as was thought before. And

225
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.159
that might mean that there's some sort of like almost

226
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.000
like a liquid magma reservoir. There's actually big enough that

227
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.720
it pokes through the cruster EO in a number of

228
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.159
different places. And so you've got several volcanoes all erupting

229
00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:52.399
simultaneously what they call interconnected magma chambers, which would allow

230
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:58.559
for these highly lava rich eruptions to take place simultaneously,

231
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.639
and so it it sort of calls into question the

232
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.840
old idea about the interior of EO, which was thought

233
00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.919
to be fairly solid. But if it's kind of porous

234
00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.720
and spongy, then that might explain why we're seeing these

235
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.360
phenomena of such volcanic activity.

236
00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.840
Yeah, and it's not the same kind of activity as

237
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:27.440
we see on Earth with our volcanic eruptions, you know,

238
00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:33.679
which is to go to Well, EO, it's being really

239
00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.919
squashed by the gravitational pool of Jupiter, isn't it. Is

240
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.120
that what's mainly like you squeeze the sponge and all

241
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.200
the stuff comes out, Is that what's happening.

242
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.919
Well, yes, it's almost like that, that's right, you're right,

243
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.080
as I said, it's the gravitational squashing and squeezing that

244
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that being so close to Jupiter provides what we call

245
00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:59.320
tidal forces, that in the tidal effect. So yes, and

246
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:06.240
you know, it's as though all the volcanoes in the Mediterranean,

247
00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.359
for example, suddenly started.

248
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:10.559
Erupting at once.

249
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Vesuvius and and you know the other ones that are

250
00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:20.119
in that region Stromboli. Yes, yeah, that's right, that's the news.

251
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.000
Thinking of all of those if they all suddenly started

252
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:28.799
spearing out stuff at once, that would suggest something going

253
00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.720
on as we've got apparently on EO. But is a

254
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:35.119
very different world from the Earth is and you know,

255
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and part part of the reason for that is this

256
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.200
external gravitational stress that comes from Jupiter.

257
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.839
Yeah, it's a it's a very toxic world, isn't it.

258
00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:49.119
It's not. It's not a nice place. You wouldn't want

259
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:50.400
to wander around them on it.

260
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.200
Well, it's mostly sulfur sulfur deposits that have come from

261
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:59.119
these volcanoes. Yeah, well, yeah, it's yeah, it actually is

262
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.440
a that's a nice thought experiment. Just to imagine what

263
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.200
it would be like wandering around on EO. I think

264
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.839
it might be quite quite an interesting experience.

265
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.200
Wouldn't smell very nice?

266
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.720
No, neither would you probably if you know to over

267
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.920
the volcanoes and the lava lakes. It's got lava lakes,

268
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.559
big pools of lava that we know about too, So.

269
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:23.880
Yes, an extraordinary world.

270
00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:29.720
Yeah, it's got over four hundred active volcanoes apparently. Yeah,

271
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.519
that's right. That's amazing. Now you said it was about

272
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.119
the same size as the Moon. Here's another thought experiment.

273
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If you would have swap the Moon and EO, if

274
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you could just somehow, you know, but one way or

275
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.920
the other reason vice versa. What would happen to EO

276
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.680
orbiting Earth and what would happen to the Moon orbiting Jupiter.

277
00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:52.799
I think the Moon would turn into EO and EO

278
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.880
would turn into the Moon, because yeah, because they you

279
00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.480
know that. Yes, there might be compositional differences and things

280
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:04.039
of that sort, but it really is the it's the

281
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.839
environment that dictates why EO is so volcanically active, and

282
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:13.480
the Moon of course in a much much more benign environment. It's,

283
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.400
in fact the main we do see evidence of large

284
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.960
scale volcanism on the Moon. That's where the Maria came from.

285
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.200
The so called seas on the near side of the Moon,

286
00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:28.799
these dark, darker areas. They are the result of basalt

287
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:33.480
flows of lava flows. But that is from a period

288
00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.079
a long long time ago, and the heat was probably

289
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:41.079
driven more by impact by bombardment during the late Heavy

290
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.119
bombardment when a lot of stuff was hitting the Moon

291
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.839
and the Earth too. But Earth of course has plate tectonics,

292
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.519
so the evidence of all that's gone. Whereas it's still

293
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:54.759
around on the Moon. But since that period three and

294
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.279
a half four billion years ago, things have been pretty

295
00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.440
quiet on the Moon. But if you put it where

296
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.039
EO is, know, I'm sure it would turn into another EO.

297
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:07.160
Yet, well, I wondered, And yeah, that is interesting because

298
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.480
we're pretty glad it won't happen. But then again, if

299
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.720
you did, if you did swap them, it would make

300
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:14.599
Artemis to a really interesting mission.

301
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:15.599
I certainly would.

302
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:20.240
Yeah, you would imagine having to pick your way between

303
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:24.039
the volcanoes before you learned your air sex starship.

304
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:24.119
On the moon.

305
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:29.480
Absolutely, And I also read that part of that gravitational

306
00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:33.680
tug of war that causes the volcanism on EO is

307
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.200
also attributable to Europa and Ganny Mate. Apparently they have

308
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:39.799
a part of the plan in it as well. So

309
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.279
poor old EO is getting bounced around like a ping

310
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:48.680
pong boar, which is messy as it turns out.

311
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.759
Yeah, yeah, you won't want to play ping.

312
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.119
Pong with it, though, No, no, definitely not. It would

313
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:56.079
definitely pong.

314
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:00.519
For certain I wish I could say I flied you

315
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.039
that line, but I'm afraid I didn't.

316
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.640
Yes, that's all it goes if you would like to

317
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:09.400
read up on that story, It's on the Daily Galaxy website,

318
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.680
and I'm sure you'll be able to find a paper

319
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.759
about it somewhere.

320
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:13.680
As well, because I forgot the look.

321
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.119
I usually look these things up, and some people do

322
00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.079
like to read the papers, but I didn't do it

323
00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:23.759
in this case. And I'm doing what's called padding right

324
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.000
now so that I can actually find where the paper's

325
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:28.839
been published and then tell you, because you'll think I'm amazing,

326
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:31.160
but no, I've got no idea. Yes I have. It's

327
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:35.799
been published in Planet.

328
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.200
That's an old radio trick.

329
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.440
That is, where there's something you need to say and

330
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.720
you have quite quite got your finger on the button,

331
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.200
but you just the track away until you find it.

332
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.599
It's that you patter away, but you're doing that then

333
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.880
on autopilot, and you're never quite sure what's going to

334
00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:58.480
come out.

335
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:05.160
Now, that's true, yeah, But where it is it is

336
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.279
available the paper at JGR Planets.

337
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:09.960
This is Space Nuts.

338
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:15.960
Andrew Dunkley here with Professor Fred Watson. That's one of

339
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.920
the better. We've had a couple of cardiac reff down

340
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.000
here too.

341
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.759
Be space Nuts.

342
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:29.319
Now. Our final story, Fred, is a really good one.

343
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.559
As well, and I love the way they've sort of

344
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.039
spun this one. We've talked before about the search for

345
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:43.359
extraterrestrial life and whether or not there are intelligent communication

346
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:50.200
capable beings somewhere else in the universe. This new study

347
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.319
or theory or whatever you want to call it that's

348
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.240
been published in the International Journal of Astrobiology, by the way,

349
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.359
is basically saying that if we can find the coal,

350
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:06.079
we will find the people. They've got a really interesting

351
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.880
theory and I think it probably does have some street cred.

352
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:15.240
Yeah, that's right. The normal mantra we talk about is

353
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:17.799
follow the water, but in this case it's followed the coal.

354
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.920
And the difference is that following the water, we hope

355
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.680
will lead you lead us to living organisms, whereas following

356
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.039
the coal might lead you to eat.

357
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.920
And it's all all this all.

358
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:37.880
This article is saying, really, is that we as an

359
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:43.559
intelligent species and with a fairly high degree of technology

360
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:48.720
you and I are using right now that has only

361
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:54.039
come about because of the coal reserves that we find

362
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.279
on the planet and what that and the reason for

363
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.759
that is that it, you know, the coal basically fuel

364
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:05.119
the industrial revolution in North America.

365
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:06.839
The UK, and Europe.

366
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:09.640
That was in fact, the world I grew up in

367
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:13.640
Andrew was still fueled by coal. It was a very

368
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:21.880
coal dependent environment that I lived in. You've got to

369
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.599
have coal in order to gain enough heat to be

370
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:29.079
able to forge steel. Then your steel needs to be

371
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.440
honed and treated in such a way that you can

372
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.240
actually keep going and finding more fossil fuel, like oil,

373
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.400
for example, with drill bits. So all of that stuff

374
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.079
they say comes actually from the fact that there were

375
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.359
coal deposits not too far from the surface of the

376
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.319
planet just the time that we were we as a

377
00:24:52.359 --> 00:25:00.039
species were emerging and recognizing the possibilities of the industrial revolution.

378
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:05.880
It wasn't called that then. And in fact, here's a quote,

379
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:09.839
and I'm quoting here again from fizz dot org. Without

380
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.319
access to coal, our own civilization would never have been

381
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.759
able to harness deep deposits of oil and gas and

382
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.279
in turn generating our feet and electricity to melt steel.

383
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:23.200
This enabled the development of radio telescopes that today dot

384
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.960
our own planet, which can send and receive messages across

385
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:30.039
interstellar space. So what they're saying is they're linking our

386
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:36.599
technological prowess to this sort of accident. Almost that we

387
00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:42.799
had these coal beds laid down seventy or so million

388
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.279
years ago that are kind of just at the right

389
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.480
time for us to or were at the right time

390
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.839
for them to have turned into coal and for that

391
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.759
coal to be available near the surface so that we

392
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:02.759
as a species could actually mine it and basically make

393
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:08.119
use of it. What the authors of this article say

394
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:15.680
is that if humans or some things like humans had

395
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:20.480
evolved earlier than we did, then.

396
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.119
Cole might not have existed.

397
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:27.160
It might not have you know, got from the basically

398
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:32.000
the peat that formed call into the material that we

399
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.200
can now mine. And so that suggests that once again

400
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.799
there is you know, it's almost like good bits of

401
00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:47.599
good luck that lead to our evolution as an intelligent species.

402
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.240
And what in turn that suggests is that once again

403
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:57.319
other intelligence species out there who are technically technologically able

404
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:02.000
may actually be very rare in there there at all.

405
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.680
If if the circumstances that they're pointing to are required

406
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.359
for an intelligent species to be able to communicate, which

407
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:16.599
is one of the Drake equations, that's parameters, that that

408
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:22.359
could mean that the number of intelligence species is probably

409
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.200
even less than we would consider, or and that that's

410
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.000
a bit sobering a bit, sad Ina.

411
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.319
Well, that's right. You know, there's so many aspects of

412
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:35.240
the Drake equation.

413
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:37.920
Excuse me.

414
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:42.279
The only the only you know, firm parts of the

415
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.079
Drake equation that we know about is that stars do

416
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.559
form planets. Planets are very common, which was not known

417
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:53.400
excuse me when Frank Drake put that equation together. But yes,

418
00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:57.480
the number of civilizations that do go on to develop

419
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.920
the technology to communicate, that is one of the one

420
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:02.839
of the terms in the equation. And if you don't

421
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.759
have coal, you might never get there.

422
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:05.319
Yeah.

423
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:10.799
Does that mean though, that there may be intelligent species

424
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.599
roaming planets somewhere else in the universe, but because they

425
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.240
haven't been able to do what we've done, because they

426
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:22.559
don't have access to, say coal, they reach a point

427
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.079
where they can't go any further. So they're wandering around

428
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.039
in their jockeys, you know, knocking dinosaurs on the head

429
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.680
or whatever they do. And that's as good as it

430
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:33.920
gets that.

431
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.359
Permanently in the permanently in the Stone Age, Yeah, I

432
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:37.960
think that is.

433
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:38.319
Yeah.

434
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:44.599
Wow. Until a coal comet lands on the planet, the

435
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:49.119
call for or a coke a coke asteroid bottle because

436
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.480
all that. Yeah, wasn't there a movie about that once?

437
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.599
I'd be surprised and African native got hit on the

438
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.960
head by a coke bottle and decided to return it

439
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:04.480
to the gods. That's a very funny film. Yes, but yes,

440
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.079
find the coll and we might find the people. It

441
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.279
does seem to have a bit of credibility that particular theory,

442
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.000
and you can read all about it at fizz dot org.

443
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:20.640
It's also been published in the International Journal of Astrobiology.

444
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:25.880
It's a fascinating story. And yeah, it does suggest that

445
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.920
there might be intelligent species out there that can't communicate

446
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:32.559
ever because they don't have the tools, because they can't

447
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:38.680
make them. So that does that is fascinating. Indeed, we're

448
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.279
just about done, Fred, thank you very much. A nice

449
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:42.079
quick one today.

450
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.759
It was certainly nice and also quick. Yes, you're right,

451
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:50.480
just louting the time. We'll chut again soon, I hope.

452
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:52.279
What's your name again, Andrew?

453
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.839
That's right, it's definitely not Fred, No, it's you were.

454
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.920
Going to be James there for me, and quite was

455
00:29:58.960 --> 00:29:59.440
going on.

456
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.359
The I know Fred's already taken, so I can't have

457
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.519
that one, all right, we'll catch it next time.

458
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:10.559
Thanks Fred, Yeah later, I get that one a lot.

459
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.519
Professor Fred Wat's an astronomer at large joining us here

460
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:15.880
on Space Nuts.

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Don't forget to visit us online.

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As well at our website Space nuts podcast dot com

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or space nuts dot Io, where you can send us

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questions or comments through the Ask Me Anything link at

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the top of the page. There's the daily newsfeed you

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can subscribe to. You can also go to our shop

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and have a bit of a browse around. There's lots

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of goodies in there, and if you want to find

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out how to support us, hit the Support our podcast

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button and learn more about that. It's not mandatory, it's voluntary,

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and we do say thank you to the patrons that

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sign up. We really do appreciate your support. Thanks to

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here in the studio who couldn't be with us today

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because he's gone looking for coal. He thinks it's going

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to help him have better communications with his wife. Oh

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and from me Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll

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see you on the next episode of Space Nuts. Bye byepauts.

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You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast available at

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Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

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You can also stream on demand at bites dot com.

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This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.