Astronomy Q&A: Super Jupiters, Light Echoes & Cosmic Mysteries

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Andrew Dunkley: Hello again. Thanks for joining us on a Q and

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A edition of Space Nuts. My name is

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Andrew Dunkley. This is where we answer

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audience questions. And, uh, Daryl

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is asking, uh, could we witness the birth of

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our sun? That's looking at old

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light, I suspect. Uh, we also, uh,

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um, uh, have a question from Rennie, who

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wants to know what we might solve over the

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next hundred years in astronomy and space

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science. Uh, Dave is asking about a

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super Jupiter with a mo moon the size of

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Earth. It's a bit of a what if question. And

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Cal is asking about whether or not a

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gas giant could become a star.

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Fred will be answering all of those questions

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on this episode of space nuts.

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Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start.

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Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.

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Generic: 5, 4, 3, 2.

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Andrew Dunkley: 1.

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Generic: 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2,

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1. Space nuts. Astronauts report it

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feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: You'll also be answering the question as to

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why sometimes when you push a button, nothing

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happens. Hello, Fred.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's usually because you've pressed the

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wrong button.

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Andrew Dunkley: I pressed the right button, but

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it didn't do anything. So

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it used to happen on the radio a lot.

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Professor Fred Watson: Press a button and nothing happens.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, because. And you know what? It's a

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quirk of the digital age. When we worked in

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analog radio, a button was a button

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until it broke.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: But in the digital age, uh, you press the

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button and that goes, nah, nah, I don't want

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to do that. No, sorry. Go find

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something else to push.

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Professor Fred Watson: Need a reboot?

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, indeed. How you been, Fred?

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Professor Fred Watson: Very well, thank you. Yes, um, uh, you know,

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just relishing, uh, being back home and, uh,

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being back into the routine with Space Nuts,

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uh, twice a week.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. Although it's so close to the

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end of the year, we were just about to go

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into summer recess or Christmas New year

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recess. But we won't. I don't think we'll

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take a heck of a long time off. Uh, we'll

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work it out. We've got to work it out. Uh,

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now I've got four text questions,

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and, um, we get a lot more

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text questions than we do audio, so I thought

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we'd bump a few of these off

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politely. Uh, so let's get to our first

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one.

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Uh, g', day, Space Nuts. When we look up,

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um, uh, when we look up at our space,

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we're always looking back in time.

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So when we look at Andromeda, the light was,

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uh, that we see is two to two and a half

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million years old. Could we train our

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telescopes to see light from four and a Half

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billion years ago and see our sun

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being born? My guess is no, but I

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love the idea of it. That comes from Daryl in

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South Australia who is a patron. Thank you,

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Daryl. Um, much appreciated. So, um, yeah,

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if you want to become a patron and jump on

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our website and get all the details and the

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platforms are Patreon or Supercast or

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Spreaker or Apple Podcasts. They all do their

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own versions of patron, uh, services.

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So if you're interested in joining

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Daryl, um, that would be greatly

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appreciated, but it's not mandatory.

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Okay. This one, uh, I suspect he's

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right that we probably can't look back at the

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birth of our sun. It's not as simple as

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just finding it and going, oh, look at that.

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That's, that's what was happening, you know,

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all those billions of years ago. But um, we

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can see a lot of stuff that's historical.

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Just about everything actually.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yep, that's right. You're as, ah, exactly as

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Darrell says, when you look out into space,

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you're always looking back in time. And

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that's the trick. So, um,

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we do indeed see The Andromeda Galaxy

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2½ million years after the light

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left. So we're looking back quite a long

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time.

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Andrew Dunkley: That's shortening slowly because ultimately.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right actually. Um, and as well, just

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a quick um, plug for the

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Andromeda Galaxy while we're talking. It's

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um, very much in our skies at the moment. Uh,

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uh, November is the time of year when

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Andromeda is sort of at its highest. Uh,

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it only skirts our northern horizon here in

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Australia. But, but if you're in Europe or

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the United States or elsewhere in the

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Northern Hemisphere, it passes almost

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overhead. Um, and in fact I was looking for

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it a, uh, few nights ago from Cyprus. Um,

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but the pair of binoculars that I

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had weren't good enough to find it among the

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light pollution of the place where I was

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looking. So I didn't see it, but I kind of

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knew where it was. I saw Saturn instead. Um,

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never mind. Uh, that um, is,

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uh, you know, that's what

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happens when you're looking at something that

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is so far away the light has taken two and a

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half million years to get here. Um,

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the problem with finding our sun being

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born, uh, is that that

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happened 4.5 exactly as Darrell

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says, 4.5 billion years ago

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and the sun is only 150 million

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kilometers away. So we can never see the

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sun, uh, uh, except at

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any other stage, uh, than what it was eight

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minutes ago. That's the look back Time for

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the sun, it's about eight minutes. Um,

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so when you see the sun, um, you're seeing it

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as it was eight minutes ago, not four and a

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half billion years ago. So really

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the only way you could do this and it still

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wouldn't really work. But if you could find a

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way of putting a mirror, uh,

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2.25 billion years

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from us, looking back at us,

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and you look in that mirror, then the

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light from the sun being born will have gone

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out to the mirror. Taken 2.25 billion years

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to do that. It'll take another 2.25

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billion years to get, uh, to now

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when we're looking at it and we might see the

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sun being born. But that is flight of

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fancy, because it's never going to happen.

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Andrew Dunkley: Even gravitational lensing probably couldn't

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bend like that.

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Professor Fred Watson: No, that's right. That's correct. You're

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right.

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Andrew Dunkley: Sorry, Darrell. Uh, probably not, but,

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um, great question. And keep, uh, them

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coming. Uh, but we are seeing and

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learning so much from, uh,

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historical light and uh, gravitational

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lensing. And we even get to witness certain

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things more than once because the light gets

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split each two or three ways and we can

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see something from different angles. It's

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really quite, um, quite amazing what's going

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on out there. And, um, to

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quote, uh, Jonti, it makes my head hurt

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sometimes to try and think of how this is all

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working and why it's all happening.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yeah, that's right. Mine does all the

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time. Um, but you reminded me something I

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meant to mention, uh, because there is

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a quirky thing. We can look back,

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uh, at, uh, some events that took place in

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the historical. And what I'm thinking of is

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light echoes. Uh, so, for example,

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the supernova that was observed by

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Tycho Brae, the Danish astronomer

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in, um, I think it was

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1572 when he observed that.

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Uh, that has recently been observed again

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because it lit up dust clouds,

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uh, which give it a dogleg path.

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Uh, so these dust clouds, ah, are sort of 400

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light years away. And you get this dogleg

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path and the light comes to us again with

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that 400 year delay. And so we can

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see what that supernova looked like because

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the light is still traveling. And you can

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analyze that with modern instruments and find

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out what sort of supernova it was. I think we

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covered that in space notes quite a while

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ago, but it's great. Light echoes, uh, are

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terrific things.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. Thanks for your question, Daryl.

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Generic: Three, two, one.

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Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts. This one comes from

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Rennie. Knowing the pace at which technology

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builds on itself do you think we will have

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solved the mysteries of what was before the

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Big Bang, Dark matter, dark energy and

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the expansion of the universe, let's say,

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within the next 100 years. Uh,

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Rennie's from California, uh, uh, and a

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regular contributor. Thank you, Rennie. Um,

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I, I suspect we'll have solved maybe one or

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two of those things, uh, even while you

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were away. Uh, and maybe just before you

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went, they were starting to sort of waver on

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the expansion of the universe theory. They

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were starting to think, well, no, we're.

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We're probably now looking at a gnab gib.

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Um, so that. That's

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now starting to change. Um,

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the evidence is. Is, um, mounting up

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to, um, change the probability

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in that regard. So, yeah, um, 100

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years is a long time in terms of, um,

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science and astronomy development.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is, at the rate technology is

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changing now. Absolutely. And I think Rennie

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asks a really good question. You know, it,

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um, behoves us from time to time to stop and

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think, well, what we're going to find out

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next. Um, the expansion of the

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universe. Yes, you're right. The, the most

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recent observations, uh, seem to

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suggest that the acceleration of

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the expansion is slowing down. And if the

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acceleration slows down enough, then

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it might well start to decelerate. And so,

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yes, perhaps one day, um, I've forgotten how

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many billion years into the future it is.

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It's 40 or 50, I think, uh, we might have a

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gnab. Gib. A big crunch when everything falls

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back together. So you're right. That's a, uh,

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thing that this is discoveries, or what you

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might call facts about the universe that are

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constantly being updated. Um,

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what was before the Big Bang? That's always

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an open question because, um,

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the general theory of relativity suggests

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that time started with the Big Bang. And

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so before might not have any meaning.

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Uh, but there are people thinking, well,

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maybe that's not correct. Uh, we've talked

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about, you know, explosive, um, um,

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phenomena in a kind of continuum.

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Things like gigantic black holes

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exploding. And if we're in one of them, that

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might be what we see as a Big Bang. Even

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though that black hole was in space, that

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existed already. This is another idea, uh,

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that I think we talked about a few months

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ago, Andrew. So, um, that's, um, you

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know, how you find the evidence for all those

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things is the important bit. And at the

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moment, our perhaps most powerful

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tools are the cosmic microwave background

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radiation, the flash of the Big Bang, which

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is still being analyzed, um, and

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gravitational wave telescopes, which might

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lead us to some inferences about

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the dynamics of the Big Bang, the way

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material shifted around. Um,

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so ah, that's one I think uh, we'll

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see a lot more uh, emphasis and we might have

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new discoveries about it. Dark matter I hope

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will, we'll get to the bottom of that within

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uh, maybe the next 10 years rather than the

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next hundred years. But um, it's a

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problem that's existed for 90 years

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since Fritz Vicki first spotted it. So it

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might still have another 90 years to go. I

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don't know. Dark energy, um,

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that it really feeds into the, or uh,

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our understanding of dark energy uh, is

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basically tied up with our understanding of

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the way the acceleration of the universe is

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changing. Because if you've, if the

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acceleration is actually decreasing as we

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now think it might be, then dark energy is

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not what we used to call the cosmological

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constant. It's not a constant, um,

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phenomenon. It's something that evolves with

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time and that becomes even more mysterious.

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So I think of all those, dark energy is the

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one that's going to take us the longest to

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work out. But I Hope it's not 100 years

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because I won't be around in 100 years time

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even with the best will in the world.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah, I know, um,

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but you know,

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where technology's going, it's just going

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ahead in leaps and bounds how quickly

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artificial intelligence is taken off.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: What uh, are we going to be able to do in 100

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years with telescopes? And uh,

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there'll probably be uh, telescopes

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uh, on the moon and Mars and maybe on a few

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of the other moons in other parts of the

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solar system. Um, you

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know there'll be more space telescopes than

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you can poke a stick at I imagine. And, and

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very, very high tech compared to what we can

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achieve now, which is really high tech in

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itself.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, um, space telescopes um,

305
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are things ah, that are not that prolific

306
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because they're expensive compared with

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ground based telescopes and astronomy doesn't

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really have budgets that are huge, um, you

309
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know, compared with something like defense or

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education or all of those other publicly

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funded things. So astronomy tends to be very

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much picking up the pieces. And something

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like the James Webb telescope is an

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exception. Uh, that uh, is

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revolutionary. But it's true that there are

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other space telescopes coming on stream. The

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Grace Roman telescope which will be

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launched I think within the next year,

319
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probably sooner I hope.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I looked up a while back that

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there are 27 or something in the

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pipeline.

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Professor Fred Watson: In the pipeline, yeah. Not all of those will

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be funded though. And you know, so that when

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you think like the James Webb telescope

326
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came and got into action, what, 20, 22,

327
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is that right? Um, something like that.

328
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Thereabouts. Um, the last big thing in

329
00:13:50.470 --> 00:13:52.350
optical astronomy and in uh, infrared

330
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astronomy was the Hubble telescope launched

331
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in 1990. So, you know, that's

332
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like 30 years interlude. But

333
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yeah, you're right. Um, as time goes on, I

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mean, one of the things that is changing that

335
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will actually affect this is that it's now

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much cheaper to put stuff into orbit than it

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was, uh, partly because of

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SpaceX being able to reuse its Falcon

339
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boosters. Um, the latest record is one

340
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that has flown 31 times, uh, which

341
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is quite extraordinary. But also we've now

342
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got Blue Origin coming into the picture with

343
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their successful recovery of their new new

344
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Glen booster a couple of weeks ago, which is

345
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fantastic. So things are changing.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. Thanks Rennie. Great to hear

347
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from you. This is Space Nuts with Andrew

348
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Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson.

349
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Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, next question. Hey guys. Greetings from

351
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Dave. He's from Sussex county in New Jersey.

352
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I have a pretty quick question in 25

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00:14:51.810 --> 00:14:54.360
parts. Uh, suppose, no,

354
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suppose that a Jupiter size or sub

355
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brown dwarf planet, um, has a

356
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moon the size of Earth. Would the moon

357
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necessarily be tidally locked to the planet?

358
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Also, would it be possible for the Earth

359
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.920
sized satellite to be in the Goldilocks

360
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zone of the super Jupiter? Love listening to

361
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your podcasts. It's good stuff. Thanks

362
00:15:16.520 --> 00:15:18.520
Dave, appreciate it.

363
00:15:19.890 --> 00:15:22.530
I like this question because, um, when you're

364
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talking gas giants, sub brown

365
00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:27.890
dwarfs, um, failed stars, whatever you like,

366
00:15:28.490 --> 00:15:30.810
um, you're getting into some pretty exciting

367
00:15:30.810 --> 00:15:31.410
territory.

368
00:15:33.170 --> 00:15:35.880
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, you are indeed. That's right. Um,

369
00:15:36.610 --> 00:15:38.970
so super Jupiters, things bigger than

370
00:15:38.970 --> 00:15:41.360
Jupiter, uh, and um,

371
00:15:42.770 --> 00:15:45.420
exactly as Dave says, that would be a sub

372
00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:48.380
brown dwarf. Um, I've got to get my

373
00:15:48.380 --> 00:15:51.300
thinking right here. I think brown dwarf, um,

374
00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:54.780
probably. I hope I don't get this number

375
00:15:54.780 --> 00:15:57.780
wrong, but I think it has to be more than

376
00:15:57.780 --> 00:16:00.700
13 times the Mass of Jupiter, uh, for

377
00:16:00.780 --> 00:16:03.020
the low level nuclear reactions that will

378
00:16:03.020 --> 00:16:05.800
power it and turn it into a brown dwarf, uh,

379
00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.740
to actually make much difference to it, to

380
00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.060
mean that it radiates in the infrared region

381
00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:13.740
of the spectrum. In a sense, Jupiter itself

382
00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:15.780
is a sub brown dwarf because it actually,

383
00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:19.260
uh, radiates, I think it's 50% more

384
00:16:19.260 --> 00:16:22.140
radiation than it receives, um, from

385
00:16:22.140 --> 00:16:24.620
the sun. So there are nuclear processes

386
00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:26.820
taking place deep in Jupiter that actually

387
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:29.460
give off energy. Um, and so

388
00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:31.540
something like, you know, if you have

389
00:16:31.540 --> 00:16:34.380
something, let's say halfway between a brown

390
00:16:34.380 --> 00:16:37.140
dwarf and a Jupiter and it's got a moon the

391
00:16:37.140 --> 00:16:39.180
size of the Earth. That's the scenario that

392
00:16:39.180 --> 00:16:41.460
Dave's postulating. Would the moon

393
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.340
necessarily be tied, locked to the planet? In

394
00:16:43.340 --> 00:16:45.240
other words, would that moon, the Earth sized

395
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.690
object, uh, be um,

396
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.640
one that always faced its parent

397
00:16:50.640 --> 00:16:52.960
planet? I think the answer to that is yes.

398
00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:55.960
Uh, because it's all about mass, this whole

399
00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:58.690
gravitational locking of uh,

400
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.000
um, moons, uh, around planets or

401
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.960
indeed planets around their parent star.

402
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.960
Because the same thing happens, it's all

403
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.680
about gravity. Uh, and if you've got um, you

404
00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.010
know, two objects that are bigger than the

405
00:17:11.010 --> 00:17:13.770
ones that we think of at the moment, uh, then

406
00:17:13.770 --> 00:17:15.970
I think you would still get the tidal

407
00:17:15.970 --> 00:17:18.450
locking. So my guess is that your moon, your

408
00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:21.250
Earth sized moon would be uh,

409
00:17:21.610 --> 00:17:23.410
tidally locked. In other words, it would

410
00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:26.170
always face the sub brown dwarf.

411
00:17:26.570 --> 00:17:28.930
And then, uh, would it be possible for the

412
00:17:28.930 --> 00:17:30.330
Earth, uh, sized satellite to be in the

413
00:17:30.330 --> 00:17:32.780
Goldilocks zone of the super Jupiter? Uh,

414
00:17:33.130 --> 00:17:35.980
so that depends on what just how

415
00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:37.860
much energy you're getting from it. I mean

416
00:17:38.020 --> 00:17:40.500
the, the Goldilocks zone of a brown dwarf is

417
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.220
much closer uh, to the brown dwarf

418
00:17:43.300 --> 00:17:46.180
than it is for a normal star. Uh, and

419
00:17:46.660 --> 00:17:49.260
maybe uh, you don't, you can't get near

420
00:17:49.260 --> 00:17:51.020
enough. That might be the answer to that

421
00:17:51.020 --> 00:17:53.900
question. That the Goldilocks zone is so

422
00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:56.420
close to the super Jupiter, uh, that it

423
00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.740
really is, you know, it's not something

424
00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:01.740
that's at all practical, uh, I'm guessing at

425
00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:04.180
that. And some planetary specialists might

426
00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:05.900
correct me, but I think that would be the

427
00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.480
case that you're going to find the Goldilocks

428
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:10.640
zone of a super Jupiter. Uh, that's going to

429
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.330
be very helpful, um, uh,

430
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.840
for life on an Earth sized satellite of

431
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.360
such a star. Um, work

432
00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:20.400
that one out for yourself.

433
00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:24.380
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, you were right though. Thirteen, um,

434
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:25.600
masses.

435
00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:26.140
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, good.

436
00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:28.920
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, when you get to, sorry, I put my hands in

437
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.200
front of the camera there, uh, 13 to 80

438
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.040
Jupiter masses is defined as a brown

439
00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:36.990
dwarf. And then beyond

440
00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:38.910
that is a star I guess because it can

441
00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:41.710
burn hydrogen or something. Is that it?

442
00:18:41.710 --> 00:18:42.190
Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

443
00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:45.550
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. So yeah,

444
00:18:45.550 --> 00:18:48.390
under 13 is um, is,

445
00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:50.430
is basically just a gas giant.

446
00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:52.590
Professor Fred Watson: Indeed. That's right, yes.

447
00:18:52.750 --> 00:18:53.150
Andrew Dunkley: Right.

448
00:18:54.110 --> 00:18:54.990
Professor Fred Watson: Or a sub brown.

449
00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:56.270
Andrew Dunkley: Or a sub brown dwarf.

450
00:18:56.350 --> 00:18:57.150
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Yeah.

451
00:18:57.150 --> 00:18:59.070
Andrew Dunkley: It's just hard to. Yeah.

452
00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:04.080
Um, so yeah, the tidal locking

453
00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.160
question definitely, probably would,

454
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.960
probably, definitely would happen that way.

455
00:19:09.040 --> 00:19:11.550
I think so as Dave said. Great, um,

456
00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:14.000
question. Thank you for sending it in, Dave.

457
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.040
Generic: Three, two, one.

458
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:20.960
Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts.

459
00:19:21.520 --> 00:19:24.240
Our final question today comes from

460
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:27.680
Cal. Hi Space Nuts. I was uh, wondering if a

461
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:29.760
gas giant orbiting a star

462
00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:33.590
that went supernova can then subsequently

463
00:19:33.590 --> 00:19:36.190
absorb the debris from that star at the end

464
00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:38.990
of its life to form enough mass to then

465
00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:41.870
form itself into a star.

466
00:19:42.430 --> 00:19:43.950
And the second part of my question

467
00:19:45.070 --> 00:19:47.870
is, uh, if not, can a gas

468
00:19:47.870 --> 00:19:50.740
giant have enough mass and gravity for, uh,

469
00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:53.110
other smaller planets to end up orbiting the

470
00:19:53.110 --> 00:19:56.070
gas giant with no star? Is there

471
00:19:56.070 --> 00:19:58.670
any example, uh, or evidence of this ever

472
00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:00.510
happening out there? Thank you so much. Cal

473
00:20:00.510 --> 00:20:03.410
from Swansea, uh, Swansea, South Wales in

474
00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:06.330
the, um, Lake Macquarie region of

475
00:20:06.330 --> 00:20:09.250
New South Wales, just, uh, across near

476
00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:10.930
coast from us. I drove through there the

477
00:20:10.930 --> 00:20:11.690
other day actually.

478
00:20:13.450 --> 00:20:13.930
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

479
00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:16.330
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, so, um, what was it? What's he want to

480
00:20:16.330 --> 00:20:19.130
know? Gas giant. Um, a

481
00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:20.970
gas giant orbiting a star that goes

482
00:20:20.970 --> 00:20:23.490
supernova. Could it absorb enough energy to

483
00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:26.370
become a star itself? First part of his

484
00:20:26.370 --> 00:20:26.650
question.

485
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.660
Professor Fred Watson: Um, so when an object

486
00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.660
turns into a supernova, it basically

487
00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:35.220
blasts debris, a very high

488
00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:38.020
velocity, uh, into the surrounding

489
00:20:38.020 --> 00:20:41.020
region of space. Um, and it's

490
00:20:41.020 --> 00:20:43.220
not even clear that a gas giant would survive

491
00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:45.380
that, let alone accrete

492
00:20:45.620 --> 00:20:48.540
debris to form a star itself. So I

493
00:20:48.540 --> 00:20:50.660
think the answer to that first part of the

494
00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.380
question is no. Um, uh, if,

495
00:20:54.610 --> 00:20:57.410
you know, if you've got, uh, this gas

496
00:20:57.410 --> 00:21:00.330
giant orbiting a star that goes supernova,

497
00:21:00.330 --> 00:21:02.330
I don't think it would end up a star itself.

498
00:21:02.330 --> 00:21:05.330
It might even end up being destroyed

499
00:21:05.410 --> 00:21:07.690
by the shockwaves that come from the

500
00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.650
supernova. Um, on the other hand, we do

501
00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:12.770
have one example of a planet orbiting

502
00:21:12.770 --> 00:21:15.060
something that has gone supernova. And, um,

503
00:21:15.060 --> 00:21:18.010
that was the first, um, extra solar

504
00:21:18.010 --> 00:21:20.220
planet that was discovered back in the 1950s,

505
00:21:20.409 --> 00:21:23.220
70s. I think there's

506
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:25.260
something called the double pulsar.

507
00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:29.060
I think I'm right in digging that up from my

508
00:21:29.060 --> 00:21:31.180
memory. Anyway, second part of the question,

509
00:21:31.260 --> 00:21:33.380
if not, can a gas giant have enough mass and

510
00:21:33.380 --> 00:21:35.020
gravity for the other smaller planets to end

511
00:21:35.020 --> 00:21:37.100
up orbiting it with no star?

512
00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:40.580
Um, so perhaps what

513
00:21:40.580 --> 00:21:43.500
you're thinking of here is one of

514
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:45.260
these objects that we call a rogue planet or

515
00:21:45.260 --> 00:21:46.860
an orphan planet, something that is going

516
00:21:46.860 --> 00:21:49.820
through space with no star. Uh, and

517
00:21:49.820 --> 00:21:52.720
many of them are gas giants. Right. There

518
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.240
might be what we could call failed stars and

519
00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:57.720
probably, uh, they have their own M moons

520
00:21:57.800 --> 00:22:00.680
which might in some circumstances be

521
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.360
the size of smaller planets. Uh, we

522
00:22:03.360 --> 00:22:06.040
haven't observed any moons of rogue planets

523
00:22:06.040 --> 00:22:09.040
or orphan planets yet. But, um, it's

524
00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.960
possible they might be there. Uh, so

525
00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:13.800
the last bit of the question, is there any

526
00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:15.640
example or evidence of this ever happening

527
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.240
out there? Um, I don't think there is, but I

528
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.440
wouldn't rule it out. It might well turn up

529
00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.920
that we see, uh, objects in

530
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.300
orbit around rogue planets when We've got,

531
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.100
um, well, probably the next generation of,

532
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.700
uh, big telescopes.

533
00:22:30.340 --> 00:22:33.340
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. Uh, when it comes to astronomy,

534
00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:35.780
it's very difficult to rule anything out a

535
00:22:35.780 --> 00:22:38.540
lot of the time because, uh, the

536
00:22:38.540 --> 00:22:40.980
more exoplanets we discover, the more

537
00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:43.540
unusual things we tend to find.

538
00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:46.740
Like those cotton canned

539
00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:47.220
planets.

540
00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:49.760
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Fluffy ones.

541
00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:52.150
Andrew Dunkley: Um, really huge planets that have got

542
00:22:53.030 --> 00:22:55.670
next to no density at all. In some respects

543
00:22:55.750 --> 00:22:58.150
they're just like vapor,

544
00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:01.030
um, for want of a better term. And there

545
00:23:01.030 --> 00:23:02.630
probably is a better term for that. But

546
00:23:04.870 --> 00:23:07.710
we're finding, uh, and Jonti and I talked

547
00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:08.990
about this recently, and you and I have

548
00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:11.350
talked about this, that our solar system

549
00:23:11.430 --> 00:23:13.510
starting to look like it is not typical

550
00:23:14.390 --> 00:23:17.030
when we look at other solar systems and how

551
00:23:17.030 --> 00:23:19.470
they've formed and how gas giants seem to be

552
00:23:19.470 --> 00:23:21.510
on the interior rather than the exterior.

553
00:23:21.810 --> 00:23:24.290
Ours seems to have kind of flipped and

554
00:23:24.690 --> 00:23:27.210
doesn't look normal at all. We're

555
00:23:27.210 --> 00:23:30.130
unique, possibly, I would think, in

556
00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:31.890
the scheme of things, we wouldn't be. But,

557
00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:33.330
um, it's just looking that way.

558
00:23:33.330 --> 00:23:35.810
Professor Fred Watson: But certainly you're absolutely right. We

559
00:23:35.810 --> 00:23:38.290
look very unusual. We look a bit conspicuous,

560
00:23:38.530 --> 00:23:38.890
really.

561
00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:40.490
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And we've got one other thing that's

562
00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:42.970
really weird that no other solar system's

563
00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:44.770
shown us that they've got yet. We've got a

564
00:23:44.770 --> 00:23:46.690
planet with life,

565
00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:50.740
an abundance of life in a great many forms,

566
00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.060
from cnidal cells right up to complex life

567
00:23:53.060 --> 00:23:54.280
forms, um,

568
00:23:56.060 --> 00:23:58.780
plant life. Um, the

569
00:23:58.780 --> 00:24:00.140
list is long.

570
00:24:01.820 --> 00:24:03.820
When you really think about it, this planet

571
00:24:03.820 --> 00:24:06.220
is miraculous with

572
00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:07.820
what it contains.

573
00:24:09.340 --> 00:24:12.020
Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's right. And that's one of the

574
00:24:12.020 --> 00:24:13.380
reasons why, um,

575
00:24:15.300 --> 00:24:18.180
you know, why there is such an emphasis on

576
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.380
detecting other Earth like

577
00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:24.180
environments to see whether the same sort of

578
00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.020
miraculous array of living organisms

579
00:24:27.020 --> 00:24:29.500
can exist there. And so far we've drawn a

580
00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:29.860
blank.

581
00:24:30.020 --> 00:24:32.740
Andrew Dunkley: No, the Drake equation remains at one.

582
00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:34.500
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it does. That's right.

583
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:37.780
Andrew Dunkley: Would, um, finding life

584
00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:40.900
on one of the ice moons in our solar system,

585
00:24:41.310 --> 00:24:43.850
um, like Enceladus changed the Drake

586
00:24:43.850 --> 00:24:46.850
equation? No, no, because it was based on

587
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:50.050
life that is capable of communication, wasn't

588
00:24:50.050 --> 00:24:50.170
it?

589
00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:51.130
Professor Fred Watson: That's right, it is, yeah.

590
00:24:51.130 --> 00:24:51.490
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

591
00:24:51.570 --> 00:24:53.850
Professor Fred Watson: It's basically life on, um, planets around

592
00:24:53.850 --> 00:24:56.210
other stars. That's right, yeah. So

593
00:24:56.770 --> 00:24:59.570
Drake equations set up. So no change to that.

594
00:24:59.650 --> 00:25:00.210
Andrew Dunkley: Indeed.

595
00:25:00.210 --> 00:25:02.930
All right, uh, Cal, thanks for the question.

596
00:25:03.170 --> 00:25:05.900
Very, uh, very interesting and thought, uh,

597
00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:08.990
provoking and, um. Yeah. Oh, that's right.

598
00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:10.950
There was a question that came to my mind

599
00:25:10.950 --> 00:25:13.190
from Cal's question. Um,

600
00:25:13.590 --> 00:25:16.470
how big a, uh, radius

601
00:25:16.710 --> 00:25:18.990
when a, um, star goes supernova? Are we

602
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:20.630
talking in terms of devastation?

603
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.550
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, you're talking about light years, um,

604
00:25:25.910 --> 00:25:28.690
because the shock wave, um,

605
00:25:28.790 --> 00:25:31.430
you know, when you think of like Supernova

606
00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:33.870
1987A, which is one of the best studied of

607
00:25:33.870 --> 00:25:35.190
all supernovae, it was in the Large

608
00:25:35.190 --> 00:25:38.070
Magellanic Cloud, so relatively nearby, 100

609
00:25:38.070 --> 00:25:40.710
meters, whatever. Is it 130,000

610
00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:42.630
light years away? Something like that,

611
00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:46.350
yes. My numbers are all a bit rusty because

612
00:25:46.350 --> 00:25:48.070
of jet lag, but it's something like that.

613
00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:51.270
Maybe 160,000. Anyway, never mind that it's a

614
00:25:51.270 --> 00:25:53.750
long way off, uh, and it's very well studied

615
00:25:53.830 --> 00:25:56.230
and you can already see the, you know,

616
00:25:56.790 --> 00:25:59.670
the fact that, um, this high energy

617
00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:02.550
radiation gone through a large, large

618
00:26:02.630 --> 00:26:04.700
neighborhood around it, measured in light

619
00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:06.820
years, which of course is much bigger than

620
00:26:06.820 --> 00:26:09.540
the solar system. So that's the area of

621
00:26:09.540 --> 00:26:10.580
devastation. Yeah.

622
00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:13.220
Andrew Dunkley: So a, uh, planet sort of orbiting a star like

623
00:26:13.220 --> 00:26:14.980
that probably wouldn't have a prayer, would

624
00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:15.500
it? Yeah.

625
00:26:15.580 --> 00:26:16.860
Professor Fred Watson: Yep, that's right.

626
00:26:18.620 --> 00:26:20.660
Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Cal. Enjoyed, uh, that question

627
00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:22.300
very much. And if you've got a question for

628
00:26:22.300 --> 00:26:24.060
us, please send it in. You can do that

629
00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:26.220
through the Space nuts website, uh,

630
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:29.060
spacenutspodcast.com spacenuts IO

631
00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:31.950
click on the AMA M link at the top and you

632
00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:34.780
can send, uh, text or audio questions. Easy,

633
00:26:34.780 --> 00:26:36.550
uh, to send an audio question because if

634
00:26:36.550 --> 00:26:38.390
you've got a device with a microphone, like,

635
00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:41.150
I don't know, a smartphone or a

636
00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:42.870
tablet or a computer, they've all got them

637
00:26:42.870 --> 00:26:45.750
these days. Just, um, press and talk and

638
00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:47.950
uh, don't forget, forget to tell us who you

639
00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:49.750
are and where you're from. We're all done,

640
00:26:49.750 --> 00:26:50.630
Fred. Thank you.

641
00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:53.750
Professor Fred Watson: Great pleasure, Andrew, good to chat and

642
00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:55.590
great to get our listeners questions again.

643
00:26:55.590 --> 00:26:57.830
There's some really intriguing thinking going

644
00:26:57.830 --> 00:26:59.050
on there. Indeed.

645
00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:00.730
Andrew Dunkley: Um, we'll catch up with you real soon.

646
00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:01.810
Professor Fred Watson: See you, Fred. Sounds good.

647
00:27:01.810 --> 00:27:03.730
Andrew Dunkley: Thanks a lot, Fred Watson, astronomer at

648
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:06.290
large. And uh, thanks to Huw in the studio

649
00:27:06.290 --> 00:27:08.410
who, uh, couldn't be with us. We were just

650
00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:10.130
talking about gas giants. Well, he's got a

651
00:27:10.130 --> 00:27:11.130
giant gas problem

652
00:27:13.290 --> 00:27:15.090
and he's had to go to hospital, but he'll be

653
00:27:15.090 --> 00:27:17.090
back soon. And from me, Andrew Dunkley,

654
00:27:17.090 --> 00:27:19.370
thanks for your company. We will see you on

655
00:27:19.370 --> 00:27:21.210
the very next episode of Space Nuts. Until

656
00:27:21.210 --> 00:27:24.170
then, bye bye. You'll be

657
00:27:24.170 --> 00:27:26.410
listening to the Space Nuts podcast,

658
00:27:27.850 --> 00:27:30.040
available available at Apple Podcasts,

659
00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:32.640
Spotify, iHeartRadio or your

660
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.160
favorite podcast player. You can also stream

661
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.080
on demand@bytes.com.

662
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:39.480
Professor Fred Watson: This has been another quality podcast

663
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.560
production from bytes.com.