Theia’s True Origins, 40,000 Asteroids & Enceladus’ Organic Mystery | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us on Space


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Nuts, where we talk astronomy and space


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science. My name is Andrew Dunley. Great


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to have your company. Coming up on this


00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:11.589
episode, uh, a new study from the Max


00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:13.910
Plank Institute shedding some new light


00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:16.790
on the the Earth relationship, which


00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.870
might surprise you. And just when you


00:00:18.880 --> 00:00:21.189
thought it was safe to go back to sleep


00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.790
at night, 40,000 new uh near Earth


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asteroids have been discovered. Only


00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:29.029
40,000. And they're all coming our way.


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No, they're not. Uh, the Search for Life


00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.790
just got another um a bit closer uh


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thanks to some Cassini data and three


00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.470
Atlas still making the news. We'll talk


00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:42.790
about all of that on this episode of


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Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space nuts. astronauts report. It feels


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good.


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>> And we rolled out the red carpet because


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he's back. It's Professor Fred, what's


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an astronomer at large? Hello, Fred.


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>> Hi, Andrew. I'm actually looking for the


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red carpet.


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>> Yeah, I rolled it back up again. It's


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had a few moth holes in it. [laughter]


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>> Yeah. But he's glad to hear it.


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>> Good.


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>> And you, too. And um Well, we've missed


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you. No, wait a minute. No, you've


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missed one or the other. Yes, we did


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have a few people starting to um I found


00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:28.630
in radio if you were away for more than


00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.789
about 3 or 4 weeks people started


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ringing the station and emailing to say


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where's Joe Blogs or where's you know


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this started happening with you Fred so


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>> oh seriously


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>> where's Fred where's Fred what's going


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on with Fred what happened to Fred


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>> uh and and funnily enough I I was able


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to say yeah I don't know


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[laughter]


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>> seen him for weeks


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>> he's just disappeared but no he's back.


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He's back. So, where did where did you


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go? What was the give us the give us the


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the the preed version of your seven


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weeks away.


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>> Three weeks um leading one of man's


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tours uh which uh is the third big one


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we've done this year actually um after


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the Arctic in in January and February


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and then it was uh Western Australia in


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the middle of the year and then this


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time we went to Japan. Uh, so we had a


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tour that took in uh interesting places


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like Osaka and Kyoto and Tokyo. And um


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Mani and I actually made a side trip


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down to Hiroshima, which is a place I've


00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.670
always wanted to visit and I'm very glad


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I did.


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>> Very sobering place to be. Uh but a


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welcoming city as well. It was um it was


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a pleasure to be there.


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>> Uh and then um we wound up actually in


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Hokkaido right in the north of of Japan


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where it was essentially coming on to


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winter. uh they they get lots and lots


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of snow up there. It's a lot similar to


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um to the Arctic, even though it's at a


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much lower latitude. Um yeah, that was


00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:56.869
all fun. So, we came back, we had four


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nights in Sydney at home [laughter] in


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our own bed, do the washing, and then


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off again to a conference on dark skies


00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:05.750
in County Mayo in Ireland. Uh we were in


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Ireland for about a week, a little bit


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more than a week. We did some touring


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down in the south. We blew a kiss to the


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Blanny Stone. I did.


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>> Yeah. [laughter]


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I wasn't game to kiss the Blney Stone


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because you have to be upside down.


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Yeah.


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>> Doesn't suit me at all.


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>> We didn't do that either.


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>> No. [snorts] So, we blew it a kiss,


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which is enough apparently to get the


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gift of the gab. And then, in fact,


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Blani was a delightful place. It was the


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one sunny afternoon we had in in um


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Ireland and it was lovely. Such an


00:03:33.519 --> 00:03:35.670
amazing castle and the crowds are


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picture perfect. Uh then we went over to


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Scotland, spent some time with my two


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daughters. Had a great time with them.


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Took a weekend out. Uh we all beled off


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to St. Andrews where I was educated. Uh


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a town that's very close to my heart. We


00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:50.710
had a great time there. Didn't do any


00:03:50.720 --> 00:03:52.869
golf. I'm sorry, but we did walk past


00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:54.949
the old course and thought of you with


00:03:54.959 --> 00:03:57.030
your golf clubs and that they don't


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float and things like that.


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>> And and


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then after that we um took the train


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down to Birmingham from Edinburgh and


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that was pleasant. And at Birmingham, we


00:04:07.200 --> 00:04:09.509
got on a plane and went to Cyprus uh in


00:04:09.519 --> 00:04:11.270
the eastern end of the Mediterranean and


00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:13.509
had we actually had a holiday six


00:04:13.519 --> 00:04:15.429
>> nights. Found an observatory, a brand


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new one called Trudeau.


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>> Trudeau observatory. Yes, we did. We


00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:20.550
Manne checked it out as she does with


00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.230
these things. And so we made a


00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:24.629
pilgrimage up into the hills, not very


00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:26.150
far from the highest point in the island


00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.030
actually, Mount Olympus. Uh but um it's


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got its own little mountain has uh uh


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the Trudeau Observatory. Uh we went up


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there. We went completely unannounced.


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They just had a tour group through. So,


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there were two coaches which were just


00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.629
about to set off down this road that was


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slightly narrower than a coach. Uh, and


00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:48.230
an angle of 45 degrees. Uh, if we'd been


00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:49.749
um, you know, if we'd been half an hour


00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:51.350
later, we'd have probably not been able


00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.350
to get there because these damn coaches


00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.230
going by. But when we arrived, um, that,


00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:57.590
you know, they just got rid of all the


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coach party and we turned up and said,


00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.510
"We're astronomers. Uh, can we have a


00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:02.710
look?" And they said, "Oh, no, no,


00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:04.230
you'll have to wait till the next tour."


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Uh but we managed to get hold of the


00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.150
events manager who said, "Yeah, come in.


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Let's talk about what we do and all the


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rest of it." Had a great time. Awesome.


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So that was very very nice.


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>> Yeah.


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>> And if she's a Space Nuts listener, um


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nice to have met you. I think it was


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Arena was her name.


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>> Nice.


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>> Greek version of that. And then came


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home uh and we came home last week and


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we're now jetlagged.


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>> Yeah, it's it's hard to get over


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jetlagged. I think it's it's an age


00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:30.390
thing, Fred. We can't


00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:32.790
>> could be except um my other half is a


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lot younger than I am and she's jetlike


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too. [laughter]


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>> Just goes a bit territory.


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>> Yeah. Well, I I got a golf story for


00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:41.670
you. While you were away, I won a I won


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a championship.


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>> You You did? Yeah.


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>> Well done. So, it was um


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>> 17 years between


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>> uh uh Well, no, I came uh in the state


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championships. I came third on handicap


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and uh top 10. I finished ninth, I


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think.


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>> Fantastic. in the state championship,


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but then we had our own um championship


00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.990
at do golf club the other day and I I


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managed to win one of those. So


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>> that's very good.


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>> And then today just before this I played


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in the proam because we're hosting the


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New South Wales women's open qualifying


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event. So


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>> played with a young lass from Melbourne.


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Her name is Piper. Um Piper


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oh gone blank. Um anyway, come back to


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me. Uh lovely young lady, hits a really


00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.029
mean ball and wishing her well. Hope she


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makes it to the New South Wales Open and


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um I'll be watching her career closely.


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So very good.


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>> She beat you.


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>> Uh gosh, yes. Oh yes. Well, it was a


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team's event today, so we were


00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:43.590
technically playing together, but she


00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:47.590
out drove us miles. Yes. She could hit


00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:50.230
it a long way, but uh just a pleasure.


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Just a delight. We had a good day.


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>> We should get down to it, Fred.


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>> We should. Yes, we're not here to talk


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about golf, are we? Although it doesn't


00:06:59.120 --> 00:06:59.990
seem that way.


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>> Not for a change. Um, our first story


00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:05.270
takes us back 4 and a half billion years


00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:08.309
when our neighboring world known as Thea


00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.309
smashed into us and all hell broke


00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.029
loose, literally and figuratively. But,


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uh, a new study has just been released


00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.909
from the Max Plank Institute that's shed


00:07:17.919 --> 00:07:20.390
a bit of new light on the the earth


00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:22.629
relationship. Uh it it doesn't sound


00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.110
like this was a what we originally


00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.029
thought, just some random thing coming


00:07:27.039 --> 00:07:29.670
in and hitting us. There's there's more


00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.309
to the story now.


00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:34.469
>> There is. Yes. Um sorry, Andrew, you


00:07:34.479 --> 00:07:35.749
broke up there, but I think I know what


00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.830
you said. Uh


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um the the story of the of course this


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has been the the principal theory uh for


00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:44.870
the origin of the moon for at least the


00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:47.029
last 60 years. uh when the Apollo


00:07:47.039 --> 00:07:49.510
astronauts brought back what was it 380


00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:52.070
kg of lunar rock and soil which is still


00:07:52.080 --> 00:07:56.550
being analyzed. Um so uh thea is the


00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:00.309
hypothesized planet uh perhaps


00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.230
protolanet is a better word because this


00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.070
was at a time when the solar system was


00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:05.830
still in its infancy 4 and a half


00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:09.189
billion years ago. Um and this object uh


00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:12.309
basically clouded the earth. Uh and uh


00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.150
we think that what happened in the


00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.710
aftermath of the that collision was a


00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.110
cloud of debris raised from the surface


00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.270
of the earth went into orbit around the


00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:22.790
earth and eventually coalesed to form


00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.629
the moon. And so we've we've um had


00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.309
puzzles which you and I have spoken


00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.230
about a number of times as to why it is.


00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:34.070
Well, let me let me step back a bit. The


00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.509
the first theory was that because this


00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:39.509
is a smaller object hitting a bigger


00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:41.509
object. So theor is thought to have been


00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.430
half the size of the earth to get the


00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.470
dynamics right. Um the earth's a bigger


00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.030
planet. Uh what you would expect is that


00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:52.150
the the debris cloud raised from the


00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:54.070
earth when the collision happened would


00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.230
be mostly made of the material. Um, and


00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:00.070
that's been a puzzle for a long time


00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.470
because most of the lunar rocks and soil


00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.670
have the same isotopic signature, which


00:09:07.680 --> 00:09:09.990
we've talked about before as well, the


00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:11.910
same isotopic signature as the Earth.


00:09:11.920 --> 00:09:14.070
They're identical uh to the Earth's


00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.389
rocks. And so that was seen as a puzzle.


00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.310
And then about probably five years ago


00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.070
or so, we did cover it on Space Note.


00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.949
some Japanese researchers um figured out


00:09:22.959 --> 00:09:24.870
that if the Earth was still effectively


00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:27.030
molten at that time, if it was still a


00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:29.269
magnum magma world when the collision


00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.230
happened, then you'd get um a moon that


00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.550
was formed largely of of Earth


00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:36.070
compounds.


00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:39.509
So, um what has now happened is that um


00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.710
a close examination has been made and as


00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.389
you're right, it's the Maxplank


00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.230
Institute for Solar System Research


00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.630
along with the University of Chicago. um


00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:52.470
they've they've really honed in on the


00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.310
uh the the exact uh details of the


00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.509
isotopes in rocks from the earth, the


00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.990
moon and meteorites because they're part


00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.190
of the story too. And and it's not just


00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:06.949
the sort of isotopes that have been


00:10:06.959 --> 00:10:08.949
looked at before. These are iron,


00:10:08.959 --> 00:10:11.750
chromium, malibdum, malibdinum,


00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:15.269
zirconium. All these iso that these um


00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:17.990
chemical elements their isotope data


00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.150
have been analyzed to look again at what


00:10:22.160 --> 00:10:25.190
we find because yes we we still find


00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.269
that the the earth and the moon have


00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:31.030
very similar isotopic mixes. Uh but then


00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:34.870
you can identify some slight differences


00:10:34.880 --> 00:10:37.670
that are attributed to be isotopes that


00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:40.870
have come from thea itself. So they can


00:10:40.880 --> 00:10:43.509
tease out what was Thea and what was


00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.230
Earth. And it turns out that when you do


00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:49.430
that, you still get a similar picture


00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.670
that the isotope ratios on Thea were


00:10:53.680 --> 00:10:55.990
probably very similar to what they are


00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:01.269
on Earth. Um, and that is


00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.670
symptomatic, if I can put it that way,


00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:08.069
of the Earth and Thea being born close


00:11:08.079 --> 00:11:10.550
together. And the reason why we think


00:11:10.560 --> 00:11:12.710
that is that when you look at the solar


00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.110
system, you find that these isotope


00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.069
ratios change depending on how far out


00:11:18.079 --> 00:11:20.870
you are from the sun. So if you've got


00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.509
two planets with very similar isotope


00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.790
ratios, then what you can deduce from


00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:29.590
that is that they were orbiting the sun


00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.069
close together. And that makes complete


00:11:32.079 --> 00:11:33.750
sense because eventually they run into


00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:37.269
one another. Um but what the outcome of


00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:40.630
this research is is that uh thea was not


00:11:40.640 --> 00:11:42.710
just a random object that ran into the


00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.550
earth in the early solar system. It was


00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:47.350
actually if not a companion of earth but


00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.990
something in a very similar orbit. So


00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.829
you know maybe we had Mercury, Venus,


00:11:51.839 --> 00:11:55.509
the Earth, Mars as the rocky planets. Um


00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:57.350
although that order, you know, I've made


00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:59.430
that up, but that's the kind of thing


00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.990
it's it's bringing bringing Thea into


00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.829
the picture as something that would have


00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:06.150
been maybe had it not collided with the


00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:08.310
Earth, it would have been uh the ninth


00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.389
planet uh in the inner part of the solar


00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.350
system. So uh a very nice piece of work,


00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.030
some very very careful studies there


00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:16.949
that I think has raised a lot of um


00:12:16.959 --> 00:12:19.990
interest in the uh uh the planetary


00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.389
science community. Yeah, I suppose that


00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.350
sort of uh confirms that it was part of


00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:26.870
the solar system and not just some


00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:29.670
random thing passing through knocking us


00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:31.190
over in the process.


00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.829
>> That's right. Yeah. And um and I should


00:12:33.839 --> 00:12:36.629
just explain how how the the remnants


00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.670
have been the the isotopes have been


00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:41.190
determined and it's by looking at things


00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.430
that we find in the crust of the earth.


00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.030
Uh because we know that the heavy


00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:47.590
elements would have already sunk to the


00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.430
to the center of the earth when that


00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.269
collision happened. So when we think


00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.990
find things like these malib malibdinum


00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.990
iron zirconium things of that sort we


00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.910
can infer that some of that actually


00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:02.710
came from theory itself and that's how


00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.590
the similarity has been deduced along


00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.750
with looking at meteorite samples too.


00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:11.030
So you're right um it it is not


00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:13.430
something that's come from another solar


00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.509
system like our current visitor Threei


00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.629
Atlas. Uh it's it's definitely a


00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.670
homegrown planet that we collided with.


00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:23.509
>> Okay. And now it's sort of a well it's


00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.110
not a part of us. There's bits and


00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.670
pieces of it but um most of it sort of


00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:29.829
vanquished into into the never never


00:13:29.839 --> 00:13:30.710
didn't it?


00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.550
>> Yeah. A lot of it would have done but um


00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:33.910
some of it's in the moon. Some of it's


00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:35.190
on the earth as well.


00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.990
>> Yeah. All right. Uh so I guess some new


00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.150
information from the Max Planck


00:13:40.160 --> 00:13:43.269
Institute about uh Thea being a part of


00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:44.790
the inner solar system. If you'd like to


00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:46.629
read about that, there's a really great


00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.910
article at scienceblog.com.


00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:51.590
This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:53.670
and Professor Fred.


00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:55.670
Let's take a break from the show and


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00:15:17.199 --> 00:15:18.470
>> And I feel


00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.949
>> space nuts. Uh, now to some really good


00:15:20.959 --> 00:15:24.150
news, Fred. 40,000 near-earth asteroids


00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:26.550
have been discovered. Is that all? Is


00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:28.550
that all they could find?


00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.870
>> Well, it's Yeah, I mean, we've for a you


00:15:30.880 --> 00:15:32.150
know, for a long time we've known of


00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:34.685
39,999.


00:15:34.695 --> 00:15:36.230
[laughter]


00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.750
Maybe not for very long because because


00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:39.509
we're discovering asteroids at a very


00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:41.269
prolific rate at the moment and that


00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:42.949
comes about because we've got such good


00:15:42.959 --> 00:15:45.990
technology discovering them. Um, and so


00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.509
yes, this is a milestone that's been


00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.430
celebrated by ISSa, the European Space


00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.790
Agency. Uh, and you know, so they've


00:15:52.800 --> 00:15:55.350
they've put out a a press release saying


00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.829
40,000 near-ear asteroids discovered.


00:15:57.839 --> 00:15:59.430
Uh, what do we mean by a near-earth


00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.350
asteroid? It's one that approaches


00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:05.430
within about 45 million kilometers of


00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.470
the Earth. And that's nearly a third of


00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.110
the distance to the sun. So it's when


00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.910
you say near, it's it's a fairly


00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.629
relative term. It's one uh with objects


00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.550
that that can get within that distance


00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:21.110
of Earth. Then there's another subset of


00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.389
those though that we tend to call PHAS,


00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:28.389
potentially hazardous asteroids. Uh and


00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.150
um there are something like I think if I


00:16:30.160 --> 00:16:31.350
remember right, it's about two and a


00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.430
half thousand of those. And they're the


00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.829
ones whose orbits cross the orbit of the


00:16:35.839 --> 00:16:36.629
Earth.


00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.310
>> Um and so they are potentially


00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:39.990
hazardous. So they're the ones that we


00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.629
keep an eye on all the time uh


00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.829
monitoring where they are uh and


00:16:45.839 --> 00:16:48.949
checking forward uh in computers once we


00:16:48.959 --> 00:16:50.949
know their orbits checking forward as to


00:16:50.959 --> 00:16:52.550
whether there's any likelihood of


00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:54.389
collision. The good news is is that


00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.710
there's not uh over the next 100 years


00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.590
or so we've got a fairly clean sweep of


00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.910
things at least things bigger than about


00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.949
140 mters across and they can be very


00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:06.870
dangerous. they can be they could be


00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:08.549
city destroyers or even state


00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.350
destroyers. So um so keeping an eye on


00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:13.669
those is important. Uh and I think you


00:17:13.679 --> 00:17:15.990
know the reason why um issa has


00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.669
highlighted this is because it does


00:17:17.679 --> 00:17:20.069
highlight the whole um regime of


00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.710
planetary defense. Uh that's a very


00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.309
active area in astronomy and um actually


00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.150
almost civil defense as well. It's not


00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.150
just astronomy that is concerned with


00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.230
that. I I think I probably mentioned


00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.070
before when I was at the IAU a couple of


00:17:34.080 --> 00:17:36.470
years ago um I actually got myself into


00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.950
a meeting uh which was the planetary


00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.190
defense agency


00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.430
uh talking about uh their next


00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.110
activities which included a a mock um a


00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:49.669
mock threatened planetary asteroid


00:17:49.679 --> 00:17:51.990
impact and how all the services would


00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.830
deal with that and you know the astron


00:17:53.840 --> 00:17:56.390
from the astronomers right to the people


00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.710
who get the fire engines out to put out


00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:00.150
the fires and things of that. thought it


00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.870
was very interesting thing to watch. So,


00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.950
um what it did was reure reassured me


00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.590
that were in quite good hands. Uh but


00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:09.909
yeah, the bottom line, uh 40,000


00:18:09.919 --> 00:18:12.870
near-earth asteroids known. Uh the good


00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.950
news is always that the big ones, uh


00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:16.230
which are the most dangerous ones,


00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.070
they're the easiest to find. And we


00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:21.270
think we know pretty well all of the


00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:24.150
asteroids bigger than a kilometer, which


00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:27.590
would be um dinosaur killers. they would


00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:28.950
wipe out, you know, there'd be mass


00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.909
extinction objects. Uh we think one of


00:18:31.919 --> 00:18:35.029
those hits the earth roughly every 200


00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.909
million years. Uh it's 66 million years


00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:40.150
ago since the last one did, which was


00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.150
was the one that wiped out the the


00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.789
dinosaurs. Um since then though, we've


00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.630
learned a lot about not only about


00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.470
asteroids, but about how we might


00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.789
deflect uh an asteroid if uh if there


00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.390
was one that could be shown to be on a


00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:55.990
collision course with Earth. And you


00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.150
have I you and I have talked at length


00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.390
and with great enthusiasm about the Dart


00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.710
mission back in 2022 in the double


00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.150
asteroid redirection test uh a really


00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.870
well put together experiment by NASA


00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.150
which uh succeeded in changing the orbit


00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.510
of a little world called Dorphos uh and


00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:17.750
that's great news because we know that


00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:19.830
it's now possible to do that. And just


00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:22.950
as a postcript to this story, um, ISSA


00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.510
currently has a spacecraft called HIA, H


00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:29.750
E R A on its way to Dorphos to check out


00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:32.310
what the result of that impact was. It's


00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:34.230
going to study that little world, look


00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.029
at the debris that was raised by the


00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.510
impact, uh, get a much better idea of


00:19:39.520 --> 00:19:41.510
whether it's a it really is just a


00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:43.190
rubble pile, which we think it probably


00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.230
is, and just, uh, learn more about what


00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:50.310
an impact by uh, a spacecraft does to an


00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:52.470
asteroid because that's the key thing.


00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.070
If we're going to have to save ourselves


00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:56.310
one day by doing this, we want to know


00:19:56.320 --> 00:19:58.470
as much about it as possible. And if I


00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.470
remember rightly, here will reach


00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.470
Dimorphus. I think it's late next year.


00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.750
I think it's towards the end of next


00:20:03.760 --> 00:20:04.789
year.


00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.270
>> Very exciting. Yeah. Nice to get a


00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:09.669
follow-up on that story, too. Yeah. Um


00:20:09.679 --> 00:20:12.070
and of course this is not the end of


00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:14.230
finding these kinds of things cuz uh the


00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.230
Vera C Rubin Observatory in Chile is


00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.150
it's it's not its primary role but it


00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:24.150
will be looking for other um near-Earth


00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.190
objects and they expect it to find tens


00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:28.390
of thousands of them.


00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.310
>> Absolutely. That's right. By this time


00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:32.070
next year we might be talking about


00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:35.590
80,000 or 100,000 nearear asteroids


00:20:35.600 --> 00:20:37.750
discovered. And of course again that's a


00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:39.430
good news story because as soon as you


00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:41.270
discover one of these things first thing


00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:43.909
you do is put its orbital elements into


00:20:43.919 --> 00:20:46.470
the computer grind away uh look at its


00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.029
trajectory in the future and that is all


00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.430
done automatically and if there is a


00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.830
need uh the system will raise alerts


00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:56.149
that there could be a collision uh in a


00:20:56.159 --> 00:20:58.950
certain window in the future. So um that


00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.190
whole process is really part of


00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.390
planetary defense. It's what's


00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.909
safeguarding us from the asteroid


00:21:03.919 --> 00:21:04.870
hazard.


00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.070
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um I I read a story the


00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:11.590
other day. I think Vera C. Rubin um had


00:21:11.600 --> 00:21:13.430
had it took its first picture, first


00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.430
light or I think they refer to it as in


00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:17.029
was it June or July this year?


00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.350
>> It was Yeah, I think it's about Yeah.


00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:22.230
>> Yeah. Uh so we almost at the pointy end


00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.029
of that um that observatory kicking into


00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:25.750
action.


00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:27.350
>> That's right. If I remember rightly, I


00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:28.549
might have these figures slightly wrong,


00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.990
but it was something like was it a


00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.310
10-hour set of observations they took


00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:33.990
and they discovered more than a thousand


00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.470
asteroids. Yeah. Period. So, you know,


00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.830
imagine what it's going to be like. This


00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:40.630
thing looks at the entire southern sky


00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:41.990
every three nights.


00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.350
>> That's incredibly remarkable.


00:21:43.360 --> 00:21:44.230
>> Yeah. It's quite


00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.270
>> Yeah. Um like we we were so blessed to


00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:49.270
be able to get so much information out


00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:53.270
of um um Oh gosh, my brain's not working


00:21:53.280 --> 00:21:56.230
today. Um the other observatory, the one


00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.710
that's out on in the L2.


00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.070
>> Oh yeah, you you mean the James Webb


00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:00.549
telescope?


00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.149
>> James Webb. Gosh, why couldn't I think


00:22:02.159 --> 00:22:05.350
of that? But um working side by side


00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:07.350
with Ver Rubin, this is just going to


00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:09.510
open up a whole new


00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:12.390
>> Yep, that's right. List of new


00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.430
discoveries. Yeah. Yeah. Very exciting.


00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.270
>> Uh if you would like to read about those


00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:20.310
40,000 near-earth objects,


00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:22.390
if you really, you know, you can go to a


00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.070
horror movie instead. It probably much


00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:26.470
more fun. But um 40,000 near-earth


00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.149
objects, you can do that through the


00:22:28.159 --> 00:22:33.029
European Space Agency website.


00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:35.990
Okay, we checked all four systems and


00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.270
>> space nets.


00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:38.950
>> Now, this this is a story that really


00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.830
excites me because um we've talked about


00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:45.029
this so many times, but um this this


00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.789
story I saw pop up last weekend and we


00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.270
we have been talking so much about the


00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:54.710
potential for life elsewhere. haven't


00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:56.789
found it yet, but the signs are starting


00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.110
to build, particularly within our own


00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:03.909
solar system. And this particular story


00:23:03.919 --> 00:23:07.029
is is one again where we have taken a


00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.549
bit of old data and reanalyzed it. And


00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.990
this involves the Cassini uh mission uh


00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.750
which has been taking samples of the


00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:21.190
eruptions from Enceladus. And what


00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:24.070
they've discovered is very very uh


00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:25.750
exciting.


00:23:25.760 --> 00:23:28.390
>> It is. Uh that's right. And uh yes,


00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.870
Cassini, you know, uh it was active if


00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.669
if I remember rightly between


00:23:33.679 --> 00:23:35.430
200


00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:39.110
I think was it 2004? Yes. And 2017. So


00:23:39.120 --> 00:23:41.510
that was the period when Cassini was


00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:43.669
collecting its data. And as you've just


00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:46.230
said, we're still learning things from


00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.830
those data. Uh, and in particular, what


00:23:49.840 --> 00:23:52.950
has been identified is some previously


00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.549
unknown organic chemicals in the ice


00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:59.669
grains that Cassini flew through, which


00:23:59.679 --> 00:24:02.390
are erupting, as you said, from the ice


00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:05.430
geysers in near the southern uh pole,


00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:07.990
the south pole of Enteladus, that little


00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.110
500 kilometer diameter world, which is


00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:13.430
one of Saturn's moons with the structure


00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.430
that we think is fairly common out in


00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.070
that part of the solar system, a rocky


00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:21.190
body overlay with a liquid ocean with


00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.029
ice on top of that. And the pressure of


00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.870
the ice is what's keeping that ocean


00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.029
liquid along with the the squeezing and


00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:29.110
squashing of the of the rocky part of


00:24:29.120 --> 00:24:32.630
the the body by the tidal forces exerted


00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.510
by the giant planet Saturn uh next door.


00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:37.510
And Saturn, by the way, um we've just


00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:39.590
gone through its ring plane. So Saturn,


00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:40.870
if you looked at Saturn through a


00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.029
telescope tonight or anytime within the


00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:44.470
next couple of weeks, you won't see any


00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:45.990
sign of the rings because we're they're


00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:46.950
edge onto us.


00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:47.750
>> Oh, okay.


00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:51.269
>> Y just a little aside there. Um so what


00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:55.750
uh what has happened is that uh we've


00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:58.630
we've known about these organic


00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:02.470
chemicals in ice grains which we we know


00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.950
come from Enceladus because they


00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.669
actually feed into the outer ring of


00:25:07.679 --> 00:25:09.350
Saturn something called the E-ring which


00:25:09.360 --> 00:25:12.149
is a very diffuse ring and we know that


00:25:12.159 --> 00:25:14.070
the material in that ring the ice


00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:16.390
crystals in that E-ring actually come


00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.830
from the south pole of of Enceladus.


00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:22.710
And those have been well analyzed um by


00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.070
Cassini and also by other observations.


00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:27.909
And so it was known that there were


00:25:27.919 --> 00:25:31.590
organics in there. But the question was


00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:34.070
these ice crystals may have been in


00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:35.909
orbit. They may have been in space for


00:25:35.919 --> 00:25:39.750
centuries. And so their chemical


00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:43.029
structure might well have been modified


00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:44.630
first of all by the the sun's


00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.029
ultraviolet radiation which tends to


00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.149
change chemistry. uh and the the solar


00:25:50.159 --> 00:25:51.990
wind, the wind of subatomic particles


00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.549
that comes from the sun that too can


00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:57.830
change the chemistry of particles uh


00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:00.549
grains of you know of of of ice with


00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.350
their with their organics uh on them the


00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:05.830
organic chemicals uh it can change their


00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:07.909
chemistry and so there was always a


00:26:07.919 --> 00:26:10.870
question whether these quite complex


00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.830
organic chemicals that were identified


00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:17.350
uh in the E-ring uh whether they are


00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:19.868
telling knew that that's how


00:26:19.878 --> 00:26:21.190
[clears throat] the ice crystals were


00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.110
when they came when they were spat out


00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:26.630
from Cassini's south pole. Um, it puts


00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.669
doubt on it. And so what this new


00:26:29.679 --> 00:26:32.870
analysis does is looks back to one of


00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:36.310
the flythroughs of uh Cassini through


00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:40.149
the ice plumes back in 2008.


00:26:40.159 --> 00:26:42.310
uh Cassini flew through the plume at


00:26:42.320 --> 00:26:45.029
about um 18 kilometers/s


00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.510
at a height of about 20 kilometers above


00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:51.669
the surface of Cassini. And so the the


00:26:51.679 --> 00:26:54.950
ice crystals that it passed through um


00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.430
only a few minutes earlier were actually


00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:01.430
water in the ocean of Enceladus. So


00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.390
these are fresh crystals of ice straight


00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.149
from the ocean. In other words, they,


00:27:06.159 --> 00:27:07.669
you know, they're effectively samples of


00:27:07.679 --> 00:27:10.310
the ocean water. And what they've


00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:12.390
succeeded in showing, uh, what the


00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:13.830
scientists who have done this succeeded


00:27:13.840 --> 00:27:16.230
in showing is that the chemistry is


00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.230
still there. The the organic, the


00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.310
complex organics are there in this fresh


00:27:22.320 --> 00:27:24.149
ocean spray, as they call it. I love


00:27:24.159 --> 00:27:26.950
that idea. It's an ocean spray, but it's


00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.149
ice crystals. And there's a whole you


00:27:30.159 --> 00:27:33.430
know a whole list of um things like


00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.390
esters, aromatics, hetereroatombearing


00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.350
organics. These are chemical terms that


00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:41.669
um I'm not that familiar with because


00:27:41.679 --> 00:27:44.470
chemistry was not my strong point. Uh


00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.029
but these chemicals are yes they are


00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.070
there in the ocean of Enceladus. Uh and


00:27:50.080 --> 00:27:53.190
what that has done is raised again the


00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:55.110
possibility that living organisms might


00:27:55.120 --> 00:27:58.310
exist in that ocean. uh and that because


00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:00.789
these chemicals are as we keep on saying


00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.990
the building blocks of life. Uh so just


00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.510
maybe there's something swimming around


00:28:05.520 --> 00:28:07.350
in the ocean of Enceladus that we are


00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:09.110
yet to discover.


00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:11.350
>> Yes. And wouldn't it be exciting? And uh


00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:13.430
hopefully in the not too distant future


00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.110
we'll be able to confirm it. Um I think


00:28:17.120 --> 00:28:18.389
people are starting to get very


00:28:18.399 --> 00:28:20.149
confident about the possibility though.


00:28:20.159 --> 00:28:20.870
>> Yeah. Yep.


00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:21.830
>> Yeah, that's right.


00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:24.230
>> So um fingers crossed. But uh yeah, the


00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.909
signs are starting to really build and I


00:28:25.919 --> 00:28:28.789
I even though it'll be probably one of


00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:31.110
the most exciting things ever discovered


00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:33.750
should we succeed in finding evidence of


00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:36.870
life elsewhere, we also probably


00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.149
shouldn't be surprised because water we


00:28:40.159 --> 00:28:42.710
now is know prolific throughout the


00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.830
universe.


00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:47.029
>> We know there are probably exoplanets


00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.029
orbiting almost every star in the


00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:51.350
universe. stands to reason that


00:28:51.360 --> 00:28:54.230
somewhere somewhere out there there's


00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.389
there's got to be some form of life.


00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:59.590
Even if it's only microbial, but


00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:01.830
>> or krill.


00:29:01.840 --> 00:29:04.149
>> Krill would be exciting. Green slime is


00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:06.149
what we're likely to find. I think


00:29:06.159 --> 00:29:08.149
>> green slime. Green slime will do.


00:29:08.159 --> 00:29:10.070
>> Green. Green slime would do it. That's


00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:11.110
right. It would indeed.


00:29:11.120 --> 00:29:13.430
>> Indeed. If you'd like to read up on that


00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.470
story about the latest from Enceladus,


00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.870
you can find it in the journal Nature


00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.710
Astronomy


00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.350
Space Nuts. One last story in this


00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:27.110
episode, Fred, and it's a bit of an


00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:30.710
update on three Atlas, the exo comet


00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.310
that is currently uh doing its thing.


00:29:34.320 --> 00:29:36.789
It's doing whatever it wants really. Uh


00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.510
but um it it's uh it's it's sort of


00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:41.350
reappeared and they're getting some


00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.950
great pictures of it, not only from


00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.350
Earth, but from Mars. And um some of


00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:49.830
these photos are extraordinary.


00:29:49.840 --> 00:29:51.350
Yes, they are. They're when you look at


00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:53.269
them, they're a little bit underwhelming


00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:54.870
until you realize that they've they've


00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.269
been taken by telescopes, not on Earth,


00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.830
but um in one case on the surface of


00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:04.149
Mars, but but also from Mars orbit. Uh


00:30:04.159 --> 00:30:06.070
and there's a little bit of a story to


00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:09.510
this because these images were taken um


00:30:09.520 --> 00:30:13.190
when uh the interstellar comet Three


00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.070
Atlas uh made its closest passage next


00:30:18.080 --> 00:30:20.950
close closest flyby of Mars basically uh


00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.029
30 million kilometers of Mars. That's


00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.909
quite a close approach compared with the


00:30:25.919 --> 00:30:28.630
distances that we we are from from it on


00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:31.830
Earth. Uh and that took place actually


00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:34.070
nearly two months ago. uh in early


00:30:34.080 --> 00:30:36.870
October. Um but what's held up the


00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.870
release of the uh of the images is the


00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.190
um US government shutdown which


00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:47.029
prevented these images being the world.


00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.510
>> Spoke about that at length


00:30:49.520 --> 00:30:51.590
previous episode. So yeah, I think


00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:53.590
pretty we're pretty well squared away on


00:30:53.600 --> 00:30:56.470
the issue. Um but he had colleagues that


00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.510
were so badly affected by that because


00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:02.149
>> the um you know well basically no income


00:31:02.159 --> 00:31:04.470
for as long as the shutdown existed.


00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.029
It's very very difficult situation but


00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.909
>> yes so we we we know why NASA couldn't


00:31:09.919 --> 00:31:11.590
do anything at the time.


00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:15.110
>> Yeah. So so that's right. So um but we


00:31:15.120 --> 00:31:17.190
now have these images revealed now that


00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.110
things are up and running again. And it


00:31:19.120 --> 00:31:22.389
perhaps the the best one has come from


00:31:22.399 --> 00:31:26.310
the um high-rise camera on board Mars


00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:28.789
Reconnaissance Orbiter. Uh and that's


00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:32.470
quite a detailed image of comet 3i Atlas


00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:35.909
with its a short tail and its coma.


00:31:35.919 --> 00:31:37.590
That's the region around the nucleus


00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:41.430
where material is outgassing and and


00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.389
shining because of exitation by the sun.


00:31:44.399 --> 00:31:47.590
Um the there there's some interesting


00:31:47.600 --> 00:31:51.190
images from uh from the Maven uh


00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.149
spacecraft as well which uh has cameras


00:31:54.159 --> 00:31:56.310
on looking in the ultraviolet and in


00:31:56.320 --> 00:31:57.830
fact it's got a spectrometer on that


00:31:57.840 --> 00:32:00.950
allows you to uh split the light up into


00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.750
its component colors. Uh so we see the


00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:06.710
glow of hydrogen actually from uh from


00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.509
three Atlas uh photographed by the Maven


00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:12.789
spectra uh spec spacecraft cameras and


00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:17.269
the mast cam uh camera on the uh it's


00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:20.149
mass cam zed it's called on perseverance


00:32:20.159 --> 00:32:22.230
on the surface of Mars actually managed


00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.310
to capture a very very faint image uh of


00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:28.470
uh of three eye atlas against a


00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.870
background of stars. It's faint because


00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:33.830
that cam, mass cam, was never designed


00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:36.630
to do astronomy. It's all designed to


00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.630
navigate on the surface of Mars, but yet


00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.110
it's managed to catch a picture uh by


00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:43.909
being pointed upwards obviously uh at um


00:32:43.919 --> 00:32:46.470
at this celestial visitor. So the the


00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:47.990
hope is that as these images are


00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.389
analyzed, Andrew, we'll find out more


00:32:50.399 --> 00:32:53.190
about threei Atlas, maybe even to get a


00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.350
good measurement of how big its nucleus


00:32:55.360 --> 00:32:57.750
is, the the icy component that gives


00:32:57.760 --> 00:33:01.269
rise to all this all this luminosity. Um


00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.269
the last I heard was that the thinking


00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.110
was it was in the region of 20


00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:06.950
kilometers across, which is large for a


00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.029
comet nucleus. Uh but I think the jury


00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.430
is probably still out on that. Um might


00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.669
find more from these measurements. So,


00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:16.470
how much longer will ThreeI Atlas be in


00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:18.149
our vicinity?


00:33:18.159 --> 00:33:21.509
>> Uh, no, no, quite a while. Uh, it's not,


00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.549
you know, it's it's it's um I think it


00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.669
passes closest to Earth this month if I


00:33:27.679 --> 00:33:29.830
remember rightly. Um, and then we'll be


00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:32.630
receding. Uh, it has passed its closest


00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.230
to the sun and so it it certainly


00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:35.750
brightened up when it did that, which is


00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:38.389
what you expect. uh as it as it leaves


00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:40.549
the solar system, we'll continue to


00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.310
track it with the world's big


00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:44.149
telescopes. Probably the James Web will


00:33:44.159 --> 00:33:46.710
have a few more looks at it. Uh and so


00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:48.710
um I think we're we're going to be


00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.110
observing it for several months yet.


00:33:51.120 --> 00:33:52.710
>> Very good. All right. Yeah, it keeps


00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.669
making the news and uh I mean it's it's


00:33:55.679 --> 00:33:58.310
one of those things like this it's only


00:33:58.320 --> 00:34:00.070
one of a handful of these things that


00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:03.029
we've we've found, but it's starting to


00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.630
look like this is not an uncommon


00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:05.990
thread.


00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.069
That's right. And I think once again


00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.790
harking back to the Ver Rubin telescope,


00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.389
we're going to find more of these uh


00:34:12.399 --> 00:34:14.069
when that telescope comes online. We're


00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:15.669
probably going to have, you know, we've


00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.990
got three known interstellar objects


00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.790
now. It'll probably be 20 by middle of


00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.109
next year. Who knows? It'll be quite


00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:24.069
extraordinary


00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.470
>> indeed. All right. Uh you can read more


00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.030
about the uh the images that have been


00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:30.790
taken of three Atlas and you can see


00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.389
them too at the univertoday.com


00:34:34.399 --> 00:34:37.430
website. Uh Fred, that brings us to the


00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:39.430
end. Thank you so much.


00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:42.230
>> It's been a pleasure, Andrew. I amum uh


00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:44.869
I've forgotten how much I miss uh my


00:34:44.879 --> 00:34:46.790
weekly dose of space knots. So it's good


00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:48.230
to be talking again.


00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:49.589
>> It's good to have you back. Thank you


00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.739
for Thank you for deciding to return.


00:34:52.749 --> 00:34:53.030
>> [laughter]


00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:53.909
>> Yes,


00:34:53.919 --> 00:34:56.069
>> even without the red carpet. Oh, and by


00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:57.670
the way, that golfer I played with


00:34:57.680 --> 00:34:59.990
today, Piper Stubs from Melbourne, Piper


00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.510
Stubs. Look up her name.


00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:05.190
>> She uh she studied um at college in the


00:35:05.200 --> 00:35:06.950
United States and played collegiate golf


00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.829
over there.


00:35:07.839 --> 00:35:08.230
>> Very good.


00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:10.710
>> Uh she's finished now and she um


00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:14.950
qualified as a in political science. So,


00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:18.150
>> yeah. Uh quite a bright young lady. Uh,


00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:20.390
and um, thanks to Hugh in the studio,


00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:21.670
although he couldn't be with us today


00:35:21.680 --> 00:35:23.589
because he heard there were 40,000 near


00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.589
Earth asteroids discovered, so he built


00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.030
himself a bunker. He won't come out. And


00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:30.710
um,


00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:33.190
and by the way, uh, if you would like to


00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:35.430
become a patron, uh, by all means, jump


00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.550
on our website and and, uh, find out all


00:35:38.560 --> 00:35:40.550
about it. Uh, I know it's there are


00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:42.150
difficult times and we would never


00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:45.750
expect you to, um, to to spend money to


00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.510
listen to us. It's a it's a free


00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:50.230
podcast, but people choose to and there


00:35:50.240 --> 00:35:52.630
are multiple options these days. So, if


00:35:52.640 --> 00:35:54.870
you want to become a patron, uh you'll


00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.430
get a commercial free edition of the


00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.150
podcast. So, uh if you'd prefer to be


00:36:00.160 --> 00:36:01.510
commercial free, this is the way to do


00:36:01.520 --> 00:36:03.270
it. You can do it through Patreon,


00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.109
Supercast, Spreaker, and Apple Podcast.


00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.310
They all do um uh various uh payment


00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.150
options if that's your thing. If it's


00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:14.630
not, just forget everything I just said.


00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:16.390
Uh and don't forget to visit us online


00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:17.990
while you're there or the uh or the


00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.230
Facebook group uh the podcast group on


00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:22.310
Facebook. Uh very active and you can


00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.069
talk to each other about anything you


00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.190
like to do with space and astronomy.


00:36:27.200 --> 00:36:28.950
That's it for this episode. Join us


00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.990
again soon when we do a Q&A episode. Um


00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:34.150
and and looking forward to having you


00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:36.310
join us then from me, Andrew Dunley.


00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.470
Until next time, bye-bye.


00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:41.190
>> Space. You'll be listening to the Space


00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:43.829
Nuts podcast


00:36:43.839 --> 00:36:46.790
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


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or your favorite podcast player. You can


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also stream on demand at byes.com. This


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