The Starless Galaxy That Shouldn’t Exist - But Does | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic...

WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.550
Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is


00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.630
Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunley,


00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:06.070
your host. And it is good to have your


00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.509
company as always. Uh coming up on this


00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.390
episode. Uh we're going to revisit the


00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:14.150
Spanish eclipse because the man of the


00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.310
moment, the man who went there and


00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:17.910
pointed it out to everyone and said


00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.910
that's what an eclipse looks like, he


00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:21.670
couldn't join us. But Fred Watson will


00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:24.550
talk about it. Uh we'll also be uh


00:00:24.560 --> 00:00:28.790
discussing the Nancy um Roman uh uh


00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:30.790
observatory launch which I watched


00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:32.870
online the other the other night which


00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.750
was spectacular. Uh and there's a


00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:37.910
there's a galaxy that they're looking at


00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.630
with um a bit of a frown and a scratch


00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:42.790
of the neck because uh it does not


00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:45.910
appear to have many stars. Uh it's not


00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.790
emitting starlight. How could that be?


00:00:48.800 --> 00:00:50.950
And we'll finish up with the mystery


00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.750
clouds of Venus. That's all coming up on


00:00:53.760 --> 00:00:55.750
this episode of Space Nuts.


00:00:55.760 --> 00:01:00.549
>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g


00:01:00.559 --> 00:01:02.229
Ignition sequence start.


00:01:02.239 --> 00:01:03.189
>> Space nuts.


00:01:03.199 --> 00:01:08.149
>> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:09.270
>> Space Nuts.


00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.149
>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:14.550
and he's back after traveling halfway


00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:16.950
around the world and returning and then


00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:19.670
getting his leg um amputated. Well, not


00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:21.990
quite, but uh he got it rebuilt. $6


00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.230
million. It was I think the price of


00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:26.390
that. Uh it's Professor Fred Watson,


00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.469
astronomer at large. Hello, Fred.


00:01:28.479 --> 00:01:30.630
>> Hi, Andrew. Thank you for that great


00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.149
intro. Yes, $6 million. Um and my health


00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.469
fund provided $42.50. So,


00:01:36.479 --> 00:01:38.069
>> yes, that's usually how it goes in


00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:40.310
Australia. Um, that's the going rate. No


00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:41.990
matter what it cost you to go and see a


00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.910
doctor, you get 40 bucks back.


00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.510
>> Yeah, it's a great system. Um, yeah.


00:01:47.520 --> 00:01:49.109
Anyway, we won't go there. That's


00:01:49.119 --> 00:01:50.469
politics.


00:01:50.479 --> 00:01:52.550
>> Yeah, that's right. But as you alluded,


00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:55.749
uh, I have indeed received a new knee.


00:01:55.759 --> 00:01:59.429
So, I had a my second T TKR, total knee


00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:00.310
replacement.


00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:00.709
>> Wow.


00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.870
>> Um, which is, uh, it was a week ago.


00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:05.270
Yesterday was the surgery. So, I'm still


00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.109
on painkillers, so will not make any


00:02:07.119 --> 00:02:09.190
sense whatsoever. Um, I might go to


00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:10.710
sleep halfway through the show. That's


00:02:10.720 --> 00:02:13.990
been one of the symptoms.


00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.390
>> Well, between you falling asleep and me


00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:18.070
sneezing, it should be an interesting


00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.630
show. Hay fever is running right here at


00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:21.910
the moment,


00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:25.510
>> and I I cannot control it. Um, I know


00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:27.430
there's medications out there, but I'm


00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:29.030
some I'm not allowed to take anymore


00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:30.790
because of my eyes.


00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:32.949
>> So, it's made it more complicated. So,


00:02:32.959 --> 00:02:36.070
um, I'm I'm I'm well armed. Look, I've


00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.790
got Oh, yes. the mandatory box of


00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.430
tissues within arms length. So hopefully


00:02:41.440 --> 00:02:43.350
we'll get through it, Fred. And um I'm


00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:44.869
glad the knee operation went well.


00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.790
You're the second person in a week that


00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:48.550
I've met who's had a total knee


00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.190
replacement. A friend of mine um


00:02:51.200 --> 00:02:53.110
>> literally stepped into a hole that he


00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:54.390
didn't know was there because it was


00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.030
full of grass and buckled his knee and


00:02:57.040 --> 00:02:58.869
the damage was too severe and they had


00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.270
to do a a knee replacement. Bit of a


00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:02.470
shocker that one.


00:03:02.480 --> 00:03:03.030
>> Yes.


00:03:03.040 --> 00:03:06.470
>> But um he's still on crutches.


00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:08.309
>> Okay. Well, I've parked my crutches,


00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:10.869
although I did resort to one in the


00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:12.710
middle of the night uh when I had to get


00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:14.790
up. Uh I thought I'm just going to use


00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:16.630
the crotch that came this time. But


00:03:16.640 --> 00:03:20.070
yeah, um it doesn't take long. But um


00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:23.750
you know, your colleague uh uh there, he


00:03:23.760 --> 00:03:25.190
had much more than just a knee


00:03:25.200 --> 00:03:27.190
replacement with that accident damage.


00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:30.630
Mine was just a quick one out, one in.


00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:32.710
Uh and so I think it's a lot more


00:03:32.720 --> 00:03:34.229
predictable and probably a lot easier


00:03:34.239 --> 00:03:37.110
for me to recover. Um, I'm sorry he's


00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.110
still on crutches and hope he I wish him


00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.750
well. We used to speak on the radio a


00:03:41.760 --> 00:03:42.470
long time ago.


00:03:42.480 --> 00:03:45.350
>> That's right. One of my old radio mates.


00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.270
>> Uh, Fred, let's talk about the Spanish


00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.430
Eclipse. I saw a lot of pictures and


00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:51.670
footage online. People getting very


00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:53.509
artistic with their photography at


00:03:53.519 --> 00:03:56.470
times. Uh, these things have become very


00:03:56.480 --> 00:03:57.670
popular.


00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.149
>> And, uh, from what I could tell, it was


00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:01.589
it was a little bit different because it


00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:04.149
wasn't sort of up there. It was over


00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.309
there. Is that how it went? It was more


00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.789
on the horizon than than you'd normally


00:04:08.799 --> 00:04:09.750
expect.


00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:11.509
>> That's right. It was um and that was


00:04:11.519 --> 00:04:14.470
always the issue for us uh because at


00:04:14.480 --> 00:04:18.150
the time of totality it was only 9°


00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:20.710
above the western horizon and that's


00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:25.189
very low down. Um but we figured that we


00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.150
would take that risk. Uh the story


00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:31.110
actually goes back a long way. So so we


00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:34.070
were leading a tour group. We had uh uh


00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:37.110
16 16 of us through France and Spain and


00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:38.469
Switzerland. We went to Large Hadron


00:04:38.479 --> 00:04:40.150
Collider. We went to two observatories


00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.350
in France uh or Puvance and Pipidi, both


00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:45.189
of which were sensational. We really


00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.830
enjoyed those visits and wound up at um


00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:51.350
Santandere in northern Spain. Uh we we


00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.070
got there I think three days before the


00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:57.189
eclipse. Um, and the first thing Mani


00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.110
and I did was to basically stake out


00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.030
where we were going to watch it from.


00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.590
Uh, because, um, in those resorts in


00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.310
northern Spain on the coast, uh, they're


00:05:08.320 --> 00:05:10.150
all built facing eastwards because they


00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.870
get the morning sun and often there is


00:05:12.880 --> 00:05:16.629
high ground behind them and and so we um


00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.629
found a spot about 2 kilometers from our


00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:20.710
hotel. We had a couple of vehicles so we


00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.950
could manipulate everything. Um Manne um


00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:28.870
bought a gazebo uh which we erected on


00:05:28.880 --> 00:05:30.950
our chosen spot. There was nobody there


00:05:30.960 --> 00:05:33.029
at that time, but we knew it was going


00:05:33.039 --> 00:05:36.390
to fill up. Uh so we had this gazebo. Um


00:05:36.400 --> 00:05:38.710
we the first night I said, "This is


00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:40.469
going to blow away if we just leave it


00:05:40.479 --> 00:05:43.270
here." So So we parked one of our


00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:45.430
vehicles under the gazebo and tied the


00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:48.390
gazebo down onto the roof of the car.


00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:50.150
Still there the next day. Yeah.


00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.870
>> And so the next day, but the gazebo was


00:05:52.880 --> 00:05:56.310
That's right. So, yeah, it turned into


00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:58.870
quite a big event. There were there were


00:05:58.880 --> 00:06:00.629
very big crowds there. We'd obviously


00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.749
chosen exactly the right spot. Um, lots


00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:05.590
of people. An ice cream van was there


00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.350
that turned up on day two.


00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:08.469
>> Oh, wow.


00:06:08.479 --> 00:06:11.909
>> Day tminus one. Um, a whole lot of cops


00:06:11.919 --> 00:06:14.150
came on horseback and in vehicles and in


00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:15.749
helicopters. They were obviously all


00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.629
taken completely by surprise by this


00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.670
event. What's going on up there? Um but


00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.670
yes on the afternoon so it was an


00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.309
evening eclipse the afternoon uh the sky


00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.270
was completely clear but uh towards the


00:06:29.280 --> 00:06:31.270
end of the afternoon this bank of cloud


00:06:31.280 --> 00:06:34.070
appeared in the west uh and you could


00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:36.710
see that it was sort of spreading


00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:38.550
upwards as it approached.


00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.790
>> So the sun was effectively setting into


00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.710
that. The partial phase started at half


00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.270
7. We got I spotted that with the


00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:47.350
binoculars. It was a magical moment when


00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.029
I first saw the mountains of the moon


00:06:49.039 --> 00:06:51.029
just encroaching into the sun's disc.


00:06:51.039 --> 00:06:53.670
This was with binoculars with filters.


00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.469
Uh and then we, you know, eclipses are


00:06:56.479 --> 00:06:58.309
an amazing spectacle. You've got this


00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:00.870
buildup over an hour or so as the moon's


00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:03.110
disc gradually covers the sun and then


00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.270
that time of perfection when it's when


00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:07.189
the two are exactly aligned. So what


00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.790
happened? We all got steadily more and


00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.550
more depressed as the sun was sinking


00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.830
into this bank of cloud. But about 2


00:07:13.840 --> 00:07:16.550
minutes before totality, a hole opened


00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.510
up uh right where the sun was. And when


00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:21.270
the total eclipse happened, we got a


00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:23.270
perfect view of the corona. It was just


00:07:23.280 --> 00:07:26.710
magical. It was clear. Um so we could


00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:28.790
see the outer atmosphere of the sun. The


00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:30.469
corona looked slightly yellowish and


00:07:30.479 --> 00:07:32.150
that's because the sun was so low.


00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.629
Normally pure white


00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.950
>> and pink clouds of hydrogen which were


00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:38.870
bigger than I've seen before. They were


00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:40.790
spectacular. Lots of cheers from the


00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.230
crowd. There were about 2,000 people


00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.029
there by then. Uh we in our little tent,


00:07:45.039 --> 00:07:46.550
there were 20 of us, too, cuz two


00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.790
members of my UK family or four members


00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.589
came out to watch. So, a good time was


00:07:51.599 --> 00:07:52.710
had by all.


00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.430
>> Uh and we were delighted to to get a


00:07:55.440 --> 00:07:57.189
great eclipse and I think everybody was


00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:00.070
very happy. And I spent the next


00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:01.670
>> I was going to say, isn't it twice in a


00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.189
row that you've been to an eclipse that


00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:04.790
was cloudy and it cleared up at the last


00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:05.029
second?


00:08:05.039 --> 00:08:07.510
>> Cleared up. That's right. Um not nearly


00:08:07.520 --> 00:08:09.189
twice in a It was the one before last, I


00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:09.749
think. Was


00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:10.629
>> Oh, yeah.


00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:13.189
>> Uh, no. Was it the last one? Yes, it was


00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.029
the last one. It was in Texas. That's


00:08:15.039 --> 00:08:15.830
right.


00:08:15.840 --> 00:08:18.790
>> Uh, and it was cloudy. Uh, and then the


00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:20.469
holes appeared and


00:08:20.479 --> 00:08:22.550
>> we we saw the eclipse. So,


00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.230
>> yeah, some somebody's looking after us.


00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.469
I don't know who is looking after us. It


00:08:26.479 --> 00:08:27.350
was great.


00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:29.189
>> Um, yeah. And that sort of wrapped up


00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:31.270
the tour. Then we had a couple of days.


00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:33.670
Uh, we had I won't bore you with the


00:08:33.680 --> 00:08:35.350
details. We had a nightmare journey


00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:36.149
home.


00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.750
>> Oh. which involved rebooking flights uh


00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:41.509
two hours before they left through to


00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.310
Sim from Barcelona. But anyway, that's


00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:45.509
another story.


00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:46.949
>> Travelers tales, you've got plenty of


00:08:46.959 --> 00:08:47.829
them as well.


00:08:47.839 --> 00:08:51.590
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I I guess the


00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.670
difference with that eclipse in Spain


00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:56.310
was it was happening at sunset. And


00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:57.829
normally when you watch one of these


00:08:57.839 --> 00:09:01.030
eclipses, it turns day into night and


00:09:01.040 --> 00:09:03.110
then it comes back to day again. But at


00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.030
sunset, I guess you sort of missed out


00:09:05.040 --> 00:09:07.190
on that kind of effect to a certain


00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:08.070
degree.


00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:09.829
>> Yeah, to a excuse me, to a certain


00:09:09.839 --> 00:09:11.910
extent because it but it got dark very


00:09:11.920 --> 00:09:14.230
quickly as it does. It's only


00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.790
>> when the something like 80 or 90% of the


00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:18.470
sun's disc is covered. That's the only


00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:20.470
time when you notice the that things are


00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:23.269
dimming. Um I think birds did go to


00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:24.710
sleep. We didn't really take much


00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.190
notice. It was um 1 minute and 3 seconds


00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.269
was the time of totality that we had.


00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.310
>> Yeah. Uh um but yes, it did get light


00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.949
again. Uh light enough for us to take


00:09:34.959 --> 00:09:36.550
lots of photographs of each other and


00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:38.710
all the rest of it. Uh we demolished the


00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.509
gazebo, gave it to a guy, a French guy


00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.750
who thought it was the bees knees. He he


00:09:43.760 --> 00:09:46.389
had a camper van next door. We also gave


00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.389
him the inflatable fridge that we


00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.110
bought.


00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:49.829
>> Oh my goodness.


00:09:49.839 --> 00:09:51.269
>> Did you know there was such a thing?


00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:52.470
>> I've never heard of it.


00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:54.870
>> My wife does. Uh, we had an inflatable


00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:56.949
fridge and we gave him some chairs as


00:09:56.959 --> 00:09:58.790
well because we couldn't take all this


00:09:58.800 --> 00:09:59.829
stuff back to Australia.


00:09:59.839 --> 00:10:00.710
>> Of course.


00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:01.190
>> Yeah.


00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:02.150
>> Fantastic.


00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:06.630
>> Yeah. Well, you know, I'm all set for do


00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:07.670
2028.


00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:10.150
>> Yeah. 2028. That's right. So,


00:10:10.160 --> 00:10:11.990
>> less than two years now.


00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:12.949
>> Not far.


00:10:12.959 --> 00:10:14.790
>> We just been sitting on this one for 20


00:10:14.800 --> 00:10:16.630
years when we first found out about it.


00:10:16.640 --> 00:10:18.150
But, uh, yeah, looking forward to that.


00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:20.870
In fact, uh I think that year um there's


00:10:20.880 --> 00:10:23.269
going to be three or four eclipses in


00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:25.110
our part of the world or over those next


00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:25.509
couple years.


00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.750
>> Each of the next few years, yeah, I


00:10:27.760 --> 00:10:31.509
think till 20 30 something. I can't


00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.670
remember what it 38.


00:10:33.680 --> 00:10:35.030
>> Yeah, I don't know. There there are


00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.630
another three. That's right.


00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:37.750
>> Yeah.


00:10:37.760 --> 00:10:39.670
>> Okay. Um well, that sounds like fun.


00:10:39.680 --> 00:10:40.949
Let's talk about something else


00:10:40.959 --> 00:10:42.630
extraordinary. Uh the other night I was


00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:45.030
sitting uh in my lounge just about to


00:10:45.040 --> 00:10:46.949
pop off to sleep and my brain said, "You


00:10:46.959 --> 00:10:48.710
know, they should be launching the Nancy


00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.430
Roman Telescope sometime soon, Andrew."


00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:52.790
So I thought, "Oh yeah, yeah."


00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:55.030
>> So I grabbed my iPad and I logged on and


00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:57.670
and sure enough, the countdown was 5


00:10:57.680 --> 00:10:59.670
minutes from launch. And I thought,


00:10:59.680 --> 00:11:02.150
>> "Isn't the brain an amazing thing?"


00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:02.550
>> Yeah.


00:11:02.560 --> 00:11:05.110
>> That it that it reminded me of that 5


00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.829
minutes before the launch. And and and I


00:11:07.839 --> 00:11:10.630
I was oblivious to it at that moment.


00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:12.550
So, I watched the whole thing. It was


00:11:12.560 --> 00:11:15.590
fantastic. Yeah, I I watched the replay


00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.069
the next day. I wasn't um switched on as


00:11:18.079 --> 00:11:19.509
you were. I was probably asleep actually


00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:23.030
with them with the with the painkillers.


00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:25.509
But yes, I did I did um realize that it


00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.829
was taking place then. Uh and yeah,


00:11:27.839 --> 00:11:29.430
flawless launch. It looked fantastic.


00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:30.790
>> It was, wasn't it?


00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:33.269
>> All 27 of those Merlin motors firing


00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:35.670
away there. M


00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:39.590
and it's now makes the 1 million is it


00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.310
kilometers or miles journey to


00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.069
>> uh yes a million miles a million and a


00:11:44.079 --> 00:11:46.470
half kilometers uh and I think it's well


00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:49.030
on the way this is to the the L2 point


00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:51.910
that point on the far side of the earth


00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:53.590
from the sun where there's this stable


00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.150
stable gravitational thing which we call


00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:58.790
a lrangee point um several spacecraft


00:11:58.800 --> 00:12:01.030
there already including the James Web


00:12:01.040 --> 00:12:03.509
and Gia the that European fantastic


00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.590
European project that's there. Few other


00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:06.069
ones


00:12:06.079 --> 00:12:07.350
>> they'll be running out of room up there.


00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.269
They'll have to put in traffic lights.


00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.430
>> So it's interesting. Um you kind of


00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.949
think of that. Oh, if this is a stable


00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:14.150
point, they must always be trying to get


00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:16.310
to the same point. But actually what


00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.069
they are, they're all in orbit around a


00:12:18.079 --> 00:12:19.350
stable point.


00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.829
>> So you're in orbit around nothing. Um


00:12:21.839 --> 00:12:24.069
but the gravitational forces work to


00:12:24.079 --> 00:12:25.670
sort of keep you keep you in orbit


00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:31.350
there. Um yep. So it's um yes. So so I I


00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.110
don't know. I haven't really looked at


00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.069
the commissioning schedule for the Nancy


00:12:36.079 --> 00:12:39.030
Grace Roman. Uh but um it's probably


00:12:39.040 --> 00:12:41.430
already started because they don't waste


00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.590
much time with these things to you know


00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.590
get as much data as they can just in


00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.910
case something catastrophic goes wrong


00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:50.790
early on. Um what we've got here is a


00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.470
Hubble class telescope um same sort of


00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.550
size as the Hubble uh 2.4 4 meters with


00:12:58.560 --> 00:13:01.670
uh the big difference that even though


00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:04.389
it's got the fine detail, the resolving


00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:06.550
power of the Hubble, it's got a 100


00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:09.590
times the field of view of the Hubble,


00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.790
>> which means it sees 100 times more sky.


00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:14.470
And so, you know, the Pubble's always


00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.430
been giving us these what you might call


00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:19.990
pinhole images, just almost looking


00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.949
through a straw at the sky. Uh the Nancy


00:13:22.959 --> 00:13:24.949
Grace Roman is a wide angle telescope.


00:13:24.959 --> 00:13:27.910
It's also infrared. Uh so it um it is


00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:30.949
actually seeing redder than red light.


00:13:30.959 --> 00:13:33.030
And we've got high hopes for what it


00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:35.590
might achieve with the huge galaxy


00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:38.069
surveys which hopefully will show light


00:13:38.079 --> 00:13:40.870
on would shed light on dark matter and


00:13:40.880 --> 00:13:45.829
dark energy. And um also it's got a very


00:13:45.839 --> 00:13:48.870
sophisticated coronagraph on board. And


00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:50.710
a coronagraph is a thing that blocks out


00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.550
the light of a star so you can look for


00:13:52.560 --> 00:13:55.590
other objects nearby. until we should


00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.470
start seeing images of exoplanets coming


00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:00.790
from the anti-grace Roman as well. So,


00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:02.550
it is lots to talk about down the track,


00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:03.030
Andrew.


00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:05.590
>> Yeah, very exciting. When do they expect


00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.550
it to actually be ready to roll? It it's


00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:10.310
a bit of a process, isn't it?


00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:11.750
>> It is. That's right. I'm not sure what


00:14:11.760 --> 00:14:14.069
the schedule is, as I was saying, but um


00:14:14.079 --> 00:14:16.389
we'll keep um we'll keep Space Not


00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:17.829
listeners posted. At the moment, the


00:14:17.839 --> 00:14:19.350
news is all good. And


00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:23.269
>> yeah, it is. It is. Uh in fact um I'm


00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.189
just looking.


00:14:25.199 --> 00:14:28.230
Yeah, first observations maybe early


00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.629
next year sometime. They haven't got


00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.269
>> exactly I had it in mind. It was 2027.


00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:33.750
>> Yeah.


00:14:33.760 --> 00:14:36.870
>> Um and I mean I I remember because we


00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:39.189
lived it in real time the commissioning


00:14:39.199 --> 00:14:42.470
for the Hubble telescope back in 1990. I


00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:43.990
was an astronomer at the UK Schmidt


00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.550
telescope then and we were getting


00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:48.470
direct reports from NASA actually about


00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.350
the commissioning before the interweb.


00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.110
Um and we very quickly realized that


00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.829
something was wrong uh because we got um


00:14:57.839 --> 00:14:59.750
reports of the image diameter as they


00:14:59.760 --> 00:15:01.189
went through focus


00:15:01.199 --> 00:15:03.670
>> and the image diameter never got small.


00:15:03.680 --> 00:15:05.829
So it was quite obvious very early on


00:15:05.839 --> 00:15:07.750
that um there was a problem with the


00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:09.910
Hubble and of course took them three


00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:12.949
years to build a a little device to


00:15:12.959 --> 00:15:15.509
correct for that and um uh then it was


00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.230
flown on a space shuttle mission and the


00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.350
rest is history.


00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.509
>> Yeah. A pufu valve I think it was they


00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:24.949
needed to put on it. Yeah. But um anyway


00:15:24.959 --> 00:15:27.189
>> did have a name costbar was it something


00:15:27.199 --> 00:15:27.750
like that.


00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:30.069
>> Something like that. Um it was lucky


00:15:30.079 --> 00:15:32.389
that it was close enough to get to. Um,


00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.509
>> yes, that's right.


00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.670
>> Can't do that with the L2.


00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:39.189
>> You can't. That's exactly right. Um,


00:15:39.199 --> 00:15:41.189
>> yes, things have moved on a bit since


00:15:41.199 --> 00:15:42.389
then. They have.


00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.790
>> Uh, exciting times and we will watch


00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:47.110
with interest and of course uh when they


00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.189
um achieve first light and we start to


00:15:49.199 --> 00:15:51.030
see some other images, we will share


00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:53.910
them with you here on Space Nuts. And


00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:56.230
you are listening to the latest edition


00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.230
with Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred


00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.829
Watson.


00:15:59.839 --> 00:16:01.350
Think


00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.269
we need to do a little more all weather


00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.629
testing.


00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:05.269
>> Amen.


00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.030
>> Space nets.


00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:09.189
>> Okay, Fred, let's talk about this


00:16:09.199 --> 00:16:12.629
strange galaxy. Um, some are saying it's


00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.030
a failed galaxy. Uh, it's been described


00:16:15.040 --> 00:16:17.110
as a starless galaxy and it's got a


00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:19.749
name. It's called Cloud9. What is this


00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:21.910
thing?


00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:26.629
Uh it's um yes it's a not a mystery


00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.550
galaxy in the sense that people have


00:16:28.560 --> 00:16:30.150
speculated


00:16:30.160 --> 00:16:33.910
that there may be galaxies without stars


00:16:33.920 --> 00:16:36.870
and you know we tend to think of


00:16:36.880 --> 00:16:39.350
galaxies as being made of stars because


00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.710
ours is Milky Way is a gigantic spiral


00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.430
of stars and gas and dust.


00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:46.949
Very beautiful if we could see it from


00:16:46.959 --> 00:16:49.590
the outside which sadly we we never can.


00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:54.069
Uh but um it has always been speculated


00:16:54.079 --> 00:16:56.470
that there may be


00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.069
uh galaxies which contain clouds of


00:17:00.079 --> 00:17:03.189
hydrogen, the raw material of stars,


00:17:03.199 --> 00:17:07.990
which basically is too hot for the


00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.150
clouds to collapse into individual


00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:11.829
stars. I think I've got the logic the


00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.949
right way there.


00:17:12.959 --> 00:17:16.230
>> Yeah. Um, so you've got the raw material


00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:20.150
of stars, but um, it doesn't form a


00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:25.110
stellar population. Um, and maybe um,


00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:27.909
it's because there's, you know, as I


00:17:27.919 --> 00:17:30.789
said, the gas is too hot. So this


00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.990
particular object, Cloud9, it's not very


00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.750
far away. Uh, it is about 14 million


00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:40.070
light years away. Uh, which puts it


00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:42.870
really on our galactic doorstep. Uh it's


00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.590
not far from uh a spiral galaxy called


00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:50.070
Messier 94 uh which is a lovely spiral


00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:51.590
uh if I remember rightly in the northern


00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:54.070
hemisphere sky. Uh well it must be


00:17:54.080 --> 00:17:55.510
because it's being observed by a


00:17:55.520 --> 00:17:57.669
telescope that um I never really had


00:17:57.679 --> 00:18:00.150
anything to do with but I knew its site


00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:01.590
well because it was built on a place


00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:03.830
where I used to observe a lot. Uh this


00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:07.430
is the Grand Telescopio Canaras uh which


00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.150
is the big Canarian telescope. It's


00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.590
actually the biggest optical telescope


00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:13.909
in the world. It has a 10 m mirror.


00:18:13.919 --> 00:18:17.110
>> Um, and it's located


00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:19.750
in La Palma in the Canary Islands and I


00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:21.190
used to observe there on a telescope


00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.510
called the William Roshaw telescope. So


00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:25.990
uh GTC as it's called Grand Telescopio


00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.150
Canarius has a a camera um uh called


00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.310
Hyper Cam uh which is the one that I


00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:37.430
think has really given us this research


00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.789
on Cloud9 because the uh the colleagues


00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.310
who observed uh this object what they


00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:46.070
did was they used that big telescope


00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:49.830
with its um wide-angle camera uh in


00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:53.830
order to get very very deep images and


00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:55.510
by deep images we mean ones that


00:18:55.520 --> 00:18:58.549
penetrate to really faint levels. Uh


00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:02.630
they got 2.336 hours of integration uh


00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.870
which is quite quite a long time. Uh and


00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.830
didn't see any stars. I think they they


00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:12.150
think they might have seen a small


00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.549
number of stars but not uh a what we


00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:21.590
expect in a galaxy. Um so the uh one of


00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:25.510
the authors of this paper um basically


00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:27.750
in offering an explanation of as to how


00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:31.190
you could have a galaxy with no stars uh


00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.950
I'll quote the leading theoretical


00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.350
explanation involves the ultraviolet


00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:37.350
background radiation that permeates the


00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:39.990
universe. Uh after the epoch of


00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.590
reionization


00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:43.110
uh that's right at the beginning this


00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:45.270
radiation field heats the gas in low


00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:48.070
mass dark matter halos to temperatures


00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:50.150
high enough that the gas cannot cool


00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.549
efficiency and collapse to form stars. I


00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.909
think that might be what I said earlier


00:19:53.919 --> 00:19:56.310
which is good. And so um when they do


00:19:56.320 --> 00:19:58.230
simulations


00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.430
um of uh you know the basically what


00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.590
this galaxy how it might have evolved


00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:05.590
sure enough it remains starless. They


00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:09.190
don't have any stars. So this looks like


00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.310
uh look like looks like a the first real


00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:15.270
example of something that people have


00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:18.870
thought must exist. Um and again quoting


00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.390
from it's Dr. Trujill Trujillo who I


00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.909
think I might have worked with in La


00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:27.990
Palma many many years ago uh says cloud9


00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.630
has a halo mass consistent with this


00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:32.470
regime. In this picture, starless


00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.390
galaxies are not exotic anomalies, but a


00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.950
natural and abundant prediction of


00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:40.870
standard cosmological models. The


00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.270
challenge has simply been finding them.


00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:45.830
So, um maybe it's not such an unusual


00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:49.750
thing after all. Uh but, uh something


00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:52.310
that has been predicted, but yes, the


00:20:52.320 --> 00:20:54.789
first I think the first one that we can


00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:58.070
really be sure uh is a starless galaxy.


00:20:58.080 --> 00:21:01.350
>> Yeah, very very unusual. Um, I'd suppose


00:21:01.360 --> 00:21:05.110
the description failed galaxy would be


00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:06.789
probably accurate given the


00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:07.990
circumstances.


00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.070
>> Yes, if you if you think of a normal


00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:12.870
galaxy as being populated by stars, it


00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.669
is. Um, but you you can see that there's


00:21:15.679 --> 00:21:17.430
good reason for it to fail. If the if


00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.350
the temperature of the background gas


00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:21.830
and the dark matter that's in it are too


00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:24.549
high for stars to form


00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.029
>> um and you might consider it a success


00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.710
because it's a purely gaseous galaxy.


00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.830
Yeah. Yeah. Uh I suppose one day it


00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:36.870
might merge with another galaxy and then


00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.430
you know all hell would break loose.


00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:40.870
>> That No, you're right. That's a good


00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.190
point because it's not that far from M94


00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.549
which is a big galaxy. Uh this is a it


00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:48.230
counts as a dwarf galaxy. I didn't


00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.870
really make that clear. And of course


00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.590
our our own galaxy has dwarf galaxies in


00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:55.510
orbit around it most of which contain


00:21:55.520 --> 00:21:59.029
stars. Uh and so and the fate of those


00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:00.950
dwarf galaxies is basically to become


00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.990
part of the of the bigger galaxy. So it


00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.710
may be that cloud 9 eventually does that


00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.029
and maybe the conditions will change so


00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.630
that the the gas becomes um uh cool


00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.590
enough or or otherwise relaxed enough uh


00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:18.470
in order to start form stars.


00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.549
>> Okay, if you want to read all about the


00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.950
starless galaxy cloud9 uh there's a


00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.470
great article on space.com.


00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.470
Um Fred, we got a live viewer who has it


00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.669
was from do actually. Hi Lynette. Um,


00:22:33.679 --> 00:22:36.070
she says, "Uh, hello from do. How long


00:22:36.080 --> 00:22:39.190
did you stay?" I assume she means Spain.


00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:40.630
Um,


00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.070
>> our earlier conversation.


00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:45.110
>> Yes, we were in Spain for, uh, roughly a


00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:47.190
week. Actually, uh, I didn't tell you,


00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.830
but I I got, um, I got


00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:54.310
thieved from by a pickpocket.


00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:55.750
>> Oh,


00:22:55.760 --> 00:22:58.390
>> yeah. Um, but very very common thing


00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.270
over there. It was in Bilbo and


00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:02.549
>> Oh, we went there.


00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:03.270
>> Lovely place.


00:23:03.280 --> 00:23:05.190
>> Yeah. Did you get your binoculars nicked


00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.070
as well?


00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:12.310
>> No. No. I I'm very very um


00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:14.549
look, we'll use the word anal about


00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:16.630
holding on to my stuff quite literally.


00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:16.870
Yep.


00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.630
>> I put stuff in my pockets and I'll shove


00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:20.310
my hands in my pockets and I will not


00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:21.669
take them out.


00:23:21.679 --> 00:23:22.149
>> Yeah.


00:23:22.159 --> 00:23:24.390
>> I must look weird.


00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.830
>> Well, you look weird anyway, Andrew. But


00:23:25.840 --> 00:23:28.630
that's, you know, not not good. Not bad


00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.870
news anyway. Uh but but no, you're


00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.310
right. Um so I'm like that too. But um I


00:23:34.320 --> 00:23:39.510
I had a a sort of manbag. Um and um I


00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:41.990
was walking back from the Guggenheim


00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.669
exhibition which you probably went to


00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:45.350
see as well in Bel


00:23:45.360 --> 00:23:46.950
>> to our hotel


00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.390
>> and I thought I noticed a bit of a


00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:52.390
disturbance behind me. I had headphones


00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.950
on um noise cancelling headphones cuz I


00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:55.830
was walking.


00:23:55.840 --> 00:23:58.390
>> Yeah. Um, and when I got into the hotel,


00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:01.350
I looked in my manb bag and the zip was


00:24:01.360 --> 00:24:04.789
open and I know I'd shut it up and my


00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.549
binoculars were missing.


00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:08.950
>> So, man said, "Go outside and have a


00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:10.710
look. They might have thrown them away."


00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.430
So, went outside.


00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.350
Here's four policemen bailing up these


00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:18.070
two guys.


00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:18.470
>> Got them.


00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.990
>> And they've been they've been following


00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.990
them because they'd created some sort of


00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.350
problems in a bar. Um, and I approached


00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:29.029
one of the policemen and said, "Um,


00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.789
I've lost a pair of binoculars." And he


00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:31.750
just said, "Yeah, we've got your


00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:32.870
binoculars."


00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:33.669
>> Wow.


00:24:33.679 --> 00:24:35.510
>> So, I got them back.


00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:37.990
>> Fantastic.


00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.310
>> It Yeah. These guys had tried to throw


00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:42.230
them away when they saw the police were


00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.029
on them and the cops had seen it. The


00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:46.070
cop who


00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.870
>> dealt with me spoke great English. He


00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.430
was an absolute gentleman. It was uh


00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.350
such a good experience that man insisted


00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:55.350
on taking our photographs together and


00:24:55.360 --> 00:24:57.110
things like that afterwards.


00:24:57.120 --> 00:24:58.870
>> Well, you got very lucky, Fred. Very


00:24:58.880 --> 00:24:59.430
lucky.


00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.190
>> Very, very lucky indeed. Yeah,


00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.669
absolutely lucky. I couldn't believe it.


00:25:03.679 --> 00:25:05.510
And actually those


00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:06.789
>> uh you know, I can go on about


00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.029
binoculars add infinitum having written


00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.549
the first book in English on the history


00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.190
of binoculars. Uh but they were a


00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.590
special pair as well, quite new. They're


00:25:15.600 --> 00:25:18.870
new to me. They're um basically they


00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.029
were made in the 60s or sorry the the '


00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.830
70s but they're very very good ones and


00:25:23.840 --> 00:25:25.750
um a lot of money.


00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:28.789
>> So Starchild says um we got a few live


00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:30.950
uh viewers at the moment and Starchild


00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.630
says quite a few thieves in the Milky


00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.470
Way.


00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:35.350
>> Yes, that's right.


00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:39.430
>> Yeah. Um and there was another question.


00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.070
Uh oh, good says good to see you two


00:25:42.080 --> 00:25:43.990
together again. Moose says how much did


00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.269
I miss? Uh about that much.


00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:49.350
I think we're a bit past halfway, Moose.


00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:53.269
And um another question. Um how many


00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.590
light years across is a dwarf galaxy? I


00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:57.830
guess they're all different sizes. They


00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:00.070
are, but it's a good question. I mean um


00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:02.789
so think of our galaxy, which is kind of


00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.470
100,000 lighty years across. Um and


00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.510
that's typical of a of a major spiral


00:26:09.520 --> 00:26:13.430
galaxy. A dwarf galaxy would probably be


00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.549
less than a tenth of that. Um 10,000


00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:18.870
light years, that sort of size, you


00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.669
know, just on on on average, that kind


00:26:21.679 --> 00:26:23.909
of that kind of size.


00:26:23.919 --> 00:26:25.750
>> Okay, thanks for the question. It


00:26:25.760 --> 00:26:27.269
doesn't happen like this very often, but


00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:28.789
today


00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.549
we've got an active audience. That's


00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.470
good.


00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.310
>> Yeah. All right. Uh you're listening to


00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:36.149
Space Nuts, by the way, uh with Andrew


00:26:36.159 --> 00:26:40.710
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.669
Okay, we checked all four systems and


00:26:43.679 --> 00:26:44.950
>> space nets.


00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.830
>> Our final topic, Fred, takes us to


00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:50.310
Venus. Sunny Venus. Oh, yes. What a


00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:52.149
place. Go outside, take a deep breath,


00:26:52.159 --> 00:26:55.590
drop dead. Um, but there's some news


00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:57.669
about Venus, which involves its clouds


00:26:57.679 --> 00:26:59.510
again. Now, the last time this was big


00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:01.029
news was when they thought they might


00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.750
have found um signs of life in the


00:27:03.760 --> 00:27:05.909
clouds. That's still under a lot of


00:27:05.919 --> 00:27:08.710
speculation and debate. But what's the


00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.549
latest with these clouds? The these


00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.990
aren't the the ones we were talking


00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.590
about last time. These these are a


00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:15.990
little bit different again. Yes, they


00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.510
are. Yeah. So, I think that was sulfur


00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:19.269
was it sulfur dioxide? I can't remember


00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.310
the um the detection which uh which


00:27:22.320 --> 00:27:24.950
people got excited because it might been


00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.549
living organisms in the upper atmosphere


00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.470
of Venus, but I think that's gone away


00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.269
now. Um, it's great to talk about Venus,


00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.190
especially just now because you would


00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.510
know, Andrew, it's absolutely lighting


00:27:35.520 --> 00:27:37.990
up the evening sky, uh, over there in


00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.990
the west. It is very bright, very high


00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.430
in the sky.


00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.750
>> Beautiful object. And when we look at


00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:47.190
it, it's kind of got a yellowish color.


00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.430
Uh, which is because we're seeing


00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.750
reflections from the top of its cloud


00:27:51.760 --> 00:27:56.389
layer. Um but uh it's been known for a


00:27:56.399 --> 00:27:59.990
long time that if you photograph Venus


00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.630
in with ultraviolet light you you see


00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.149
patterns really dramatic patterns and I


00:28:08.159 --> 00:28:09.669
I haven't got one in front of me now but


00:28:09.679 --> 00:28:11.510
I do remember photographs of this that


00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:13.990
these are sort of globalized patterns


00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.590
that actually move uh with the the


00:28:17.600 --> 00:28:20.950
clouds of Venus. And as we know, I think


00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.830
most space notes uh listeners and


00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:25.350
viewers would know that we don't


00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:26.870
actually see the surface of Venus


00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.830
directly. We can with radar uh certain


00:28:29.840 --> 00:28:31.350
infrared observations that let you


00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:32.950
penetrate to the surface, but basically


00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.190
all we see uh and certainly in


00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.350
ultraviolet is the upper parts of the of


00:28:37.360 --> 00:28:40.389
the cloud belts, cloud layers.


00:28:40.399 --> 00:28:43.669
>> So the markings themselves uh are a


00:28:43.679 --> 00:28:47.590
puzzle. And um this is where it sort of


00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:49.190
gets interesting, although it's not one


00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.549
of these stories that's got a neat and


00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.269
tidy answer, I'm afraid. Um there's


00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.470
there's a chemical that is thought to be


00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.110
in Venus's upper atmosphere,


00:28:59.120 --> 00:29:02.789
which is called the unknown absorber.


00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.630
Uh and because uh it absorbs light uh in


00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.549
the ultraviolet, and you get dark


00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.950
patches from from this this stuff. Um, I


00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:14.230
was talking to somebody about this the


00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:15.669
other day and they said it sounds like a


00:29:15.679 --> 00:29:18.470
superhero, the unknown absorber. Uh,


00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.549
which, uh, I think probably would work


00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.310
well. Yeah.


00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:25.669
>> His superhero name would be the sponge.


00:29:25.679 --> 00:29:28.149
>> The sponge. That's right.


00:29:28.159 --> 00:29:33.269
So what's happened is that um a team an


00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.669
international team actually of basically


00:29:35.679 --> 00:29:38.310
astrobiologists people who are looking


00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:42.310
at uh the origin of life in the universe


00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:44.389
and what we need for life to form and


00:29:44.399 --> 00:29:46.149
all of those other good things not


00:29:46.159 --> 00:29:47.669
necessarily trying to find life but


00:29:47.679 --> 00:29:49.990
trying to understand life. um what


00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.590
they've done uh they've essentially this


00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:56.389
this research team I think they've done


00:29:56.399 --> 00:29:59.669
very cluey kind of modeling


00:29:59.679 --> 00:30:03.590
um of the droplets within the clouds of


00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:08.310
Venus to try and not identify what this


00:30:08.320 --> 00:30:12.950
unknown absorber is but sort of um place


00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.669
limits on its properties you know it


00:30:15.679 --> 00:30:18.230
does this but it doesn't do that uh and


00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:19.909
it does this to to this extent, but it


00:30:19.919 --> 00:30:22.470
doesn't do that to this extent. So, it's


00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.350
uh it's all about trying to model what


00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:28.149
cloud droplets would look like to


00:30:28.159 --> 00:30:30.470
actually reproduce what we see when we


00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:35.350
observe the planet. Um so,


00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:39.590
uh one of the authors of the paper


00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:43.350
basically poses a question. Uh, if we


00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:46.710
were to collect Venus's cloud droplets,


00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.870
and I'm paraphrasing here, into a


00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.070
bucket, how would the reformed bulk


00:30:52.080 --> 00:30:53.669
liquid appear?


00:30:53.679 --> 00:30:55.590
>> Uh, the scientist actually said a


00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:58.389
spectrometric cuette, but a bucket's as


00:30:58.399 --> 00:31:01.029
good an analogy for that as you need. If


00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.870
you could collect the droplets, what


00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:08.710
would it look like? Um and that is the


00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.750
sort of key to the modeling that's been


00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:15.909
done. Um they there's a comment um I


00:31:15.919 --> 00:31:17.269
think it might come from the original


00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:20.149
paper but um fsdoc.org has got a very


00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:23.430
nice article on this uh and I think it


00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.630
may even come from their press release.


00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.549
Uh but basically it's um likening the


00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.510
droplets in the clouds of Venus to


00:31:33.520 --> 00:31:37.110
cigarette smoke. Uh because um cigarette


00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:40.630
smoke is tiny particles, tar tiny tarry


00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:42.149
particles


00:31:42.159 --> 00:31:45.590
um which look sort of white or bluish


00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:47.029
because of the scattering of light.


00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.110
Because these things are so small they


00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:51.350
scatter light very effectively. But if


00:31:51.360 --> 00:31:53.909
you collected it into a flask, you got


00:31:53.919 --> 00:31:57.830
this horrible sludge uh t- like sludge.


00:31:57.840 --> 00:31:59.350
Of course, that is what ends up in your


00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:01.509
lungs if you're a smoker.


00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:05.110
>> Um yeah. So what they're suggesting is


00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:08.149
that there's a similar phenomenon


00:32:08.159 --> 00:32:10.950
happening in Venus's clouds. Uh because


00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.029
the particle size of the droplets in


00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.269
Venus's upper atmosphere are comparable


00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:18.230
to the particle size of cigarette smokes


00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.590
smoke. So even though um you know even


00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:24.389
though the clouds with the with visible


00:32:24.399 --> 00:32:27.990
light look that sort of yellowish color


00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.190
that we've mentioned already, the actual


00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.070
droplets themselves could be really


00:32:34.080 --> 00:32:36.149
really dark and it's only because they


00:32:36.159 --> 00:32:37.669
scatter the light in a certain way that


00:32:37.679 --> 00:32:40.310
they look that they look yellowish.


00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:44.710
Um so this basically this uh research is


00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.630
asking that question. What h what would


00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.789
happen if you could collect a cloud of


00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:50.470
material from the atmosphere of Venus


00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.789
and put it into a


00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.509
basically you know a a flask or a or a


00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.950
beaker or something like that. Um and


00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:03.669
that's where this analysis has gone and


00:33:03.679 --> 00:33:06.230
they've used something it's words that


00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.070
used to strike terror into me when I was


00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:10.389
a student in astronomy Andrew and I


00:33:10.399 --> 00:33:11.509
don't know whether I've uttered them


00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:15.190
ever since. radiative transfer. Uh


00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.430
radiative transfer is the way radiation


00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.070
moves around uh among atoms. Uh and it's


00:33:22.080 --> 00:33:25.830
very very intense mathematics. So these


00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:27.509
scientists obviously like that kind of


00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.230
thing. I'm afraid I didn't. uh and have


00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.870
built a radiative transfer model that uh


00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.470
actually lets you um account for not


00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.310
just single scattering but multiple


00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:40.950
scattering because you've you've got to


00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.710
um take into account that light might


00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.549
scatter from one of those droplets and


00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.230
then hit another one and scatter from


00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.630
that. So you've got multiple scattering


00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:53.430
phenomena. Um and so uh they have


00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.950
basically done that and produced what is


00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.509
called the absorption coefficient of the


00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.909
bulk cloud liquid. That's the how it


00:34:01.919 --> 00:34:04.950
would absorb um if you just had a flask


00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.430
of this stuff. Now what they're saying


00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.829
is that they don't really know what this


00:34:09.839 --> 00:34:12.710
these droplets are, but they're not


00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:15.589
suggesting its life. Um they've they've


00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:18.149
put limits on the absorption


00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:24.069
coefficient. Um and uh essentially


00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.470
again paraphrasing the uh press release


00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.430
from f.org uh the result implies that


00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.629
the unknown absorber must either absorb


00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.230
light very efficiently, occur at a very


00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:39.349
high concentration or both. Uh my guess


00:34:39.359 --> 00:34:42.149
is it's going to be both. Um, so, uh,


00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.109
it's it's some sort of probably some


00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.829
sort of organic compound, and by that I


00:34:47.839 --> 00:34:49.909
mean one that contains carbon rather


00:34:49.919 --> 00:34:52.389
than one that contains living organisms.


00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:55.430
Um, and they've basically, you know,


00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.349
they've suggested some chemicals that


00:34:57.359 --> 00:35:01.349
might actually be be responsible for


00:35:01.359 --> 00:35:03.430
this. Uh, excluding, they say


00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.430
chlorophyll. Chlorophyll, of course,


00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.150
very important in life processes. uh but


00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:09.750
they're excluding they're saying they're


00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.710
not proposing chlorophyll as as a as an


00:35:12.720 --> 00:35:15.670
example. So uh as I said it's a story


00:35:15.680 --> 00:35:18.630
that doesn't have a conclusion uh but


00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:21.030
it's interesting to think of the the


00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:22.790
clouds of Venus that if you could


00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.190
collect them in a bucket or a container


00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:27.910
they could be very very dark mixtures


00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:31.190
like tar a sort of sludge of of tar


00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:36.069
which um would be interesting.


00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.470
Yeah, it's um


00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.630
it's a classic example of a failed


00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:43.030
earthlike world.


00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:45.030
>> Yes, that's right. Yes, indeed. We don't


00:35:45.040 --> 00:35:47.670
have things like this on in our planet,


00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:49.430
thankfully.


00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:50.230
>> Yeah. Um


00:35:50.240 --> 00:35:52.310
>> I think there's more um Sorry, Andrew,


00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:53.589
just to finish the story, I think


00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:57.270
there's more research being designed


00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:02.150
possibly looking uh uh with a a future


00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:05.270
mission to Venus. uh perhaps looking for


00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.390
fluoresence in the uh in the clouds


00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.069
because that would give them another


00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.030
angle on what this stuff is.


00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:16.550
>> Okay, we watch with interest. Uh yeah,


00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.950
Venus keeps throwing up curve balls. The


00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:19.190
uh


00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:20.150
>> just doesn't


00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:22.230
>> the potential for life in the clouds


00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:24.069
because of the discovery of phosphine


00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.150
and now this um a bucket of tar. Yay.


00:36:28.160 --> 00:36:31.510
What a place. Next holiday, I think.


00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:33.109
Well, yeah. Plus, you've got the


00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.390
sulfuric acid as well.


00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.470
>> Oh, that's true. Yes. Yes. And and the


00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.030
um undeniable level of heat. I think


00:36:39.040 --> 00:36:40.790
Australians could handle it and a few


00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.790
other places in the world, but most No,


00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:44.470
most people couldn't. It's horrible.


00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:46.790
It's an horrible place, but very pretty


00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.390
in the sky at the moment.


00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.349
>> It is.


00:36:49.359 --> 00:36:51.750
>> Uh you can read all about it at f.org as


00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:53.750
Fred said or you can read the entire


00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.349
paper which was published in


00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:57.190
astrobiology.


00:36:57.200 --> 00:36:59.270
And that brings us to the end. Fred,


00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.109
thank you very much.


00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:02.950
Uh, it's a pleasure, Andrew. Um, it's


00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.349
always good to chat and um, even better


00:37:05.359 --> 00:37:08.230
to chat when you're half asleep.


00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:10.710
>> You did well. You did well. For those


00:37:10.720 --> 00:37:13.430
who joined us late, um, you'll have to


00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:14.790
listen to the episode, get the full


00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:18.230
explanation of Fred's sleepiness. Um,


00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:20.630
it's got something to do with um,


00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:24.310
painkillers. Anyway, we'll get on uh,


00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:25.829
hopefully he'll brighten up for the next


00:37:25.839 --> 00:37:27.670
episode. I suspect not.


00:37:27.680 --> 00:37:29.349
>> Um, thank you, Fred. We'll catch you


00:37:29.359 --> 00:37:30.310
soon.


00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.470
Sounds great. Thank Thanks, Andrew.


00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:34.230
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:36.470
large. And don't forget to visit us at


00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.550
our website between episodes, which you


00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:40.630
can do at spaceenutspodcast.com


00:37:40.640 --> 00:37:44.630
or spacenuts.io. Have a look around and


00:37:44.640 --> 00:37:46.870
um see what's there. The shop, you can


00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.109
send us messages, you can sign up for


00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:50.710
astronomy daily. Plenty of things to see


00:37:50.720 --> 00:37:51.910
and do. And don't forget to leave


00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.310
reviews about our podcast wherever you


00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.870
listen to us. And thanks to Hugh in the


00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.310
studio who couldn't be with us today


00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.470
because he discovered that he's um he's


00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.030
more at home in a starless galaxy. And


00:38:03.040 --> 00:38:04.870
from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your


00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:06.550
company. See you on the next episode of


00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:08.310
Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:09.270
>> Space Nuts.


00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.349
>> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:38:11.359 --> 00:38:13.670
podcast


00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:16.630
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:38:16.640 --> 00:38:19.270
iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:21.589
player. You can also stream on demand at


00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.550
byes.com. This has been another quality


00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:29.079
podcast production from sites.com.