The Intricacies of Angular Momentum - What Happens Near Black Holes | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Kind: captions
Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks again for joining us.


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This is Space Nuts. It's a Q&A edition


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where we answer audience questions. And


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uh we I think we've got our very first


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qu question from Yemen. Uh Hussein has


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sent a question asking about radial


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velocity. Uh Martin, one of our regular


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contributors, has a dark matter he wants


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to discuss.


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Uh Peter in Sweden is talking angular


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momentum. Uh that is the angular


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momentum of matter falling into a black


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hole. And a real bummer of a question.


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We'll tell you all about it on this


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episode of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good. and


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he's back again to solve all your


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riddles. It's Professor Fred Watson,


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astronomer at large. Hello, Fred.


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>> Hello, Andrew. Good to see you again. I


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always hoped we'd get back together


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again one day, and here we


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>> two minutes. Uh yeah. Um


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>> anyway, I love the Q&A program. I really


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do because it gives people a chance to


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um dump on us and see how much we can


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mess it up. and that's always fun. Um,


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we might get straight into it, Fred.


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>> And I was I was very excited to see that


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we've got a question from Yemen. I never


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thought we I didn't even know we were


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heard in Yemen.


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>> So, that's really fantastic. And um,


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this one comes from Hussein, who says,


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"I'm a huge fan of the podcast calling


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in from Yemen." See, I was right. It was


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Yemen. Uh, first a quick confession. I


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hope you're not offended, but Space Nuts


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is my absolute favorite show to listen


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to when I'm falling asleep.


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Your your voices are incredibly


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soothing. Uh though I promise I do


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actually listen to the science before I


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drift off. I appreciate that. Um my wife


00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.589
says I keep her awake um


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>> cuz I snore, but I don't believe it.


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I've never heard me. Uh my question is


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about the radial velocity method for


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detecting exoplanets. I understand that


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a star wobbles because of the


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gravitational pull of its orbiting


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planets. However, how do astronomers use


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this method to isolate individual


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planets? For example, our sun must


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wobble because Mercury, Venus, Earth,


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Mars, Jupiter, and the rest pull in


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different directions at the same time.


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If an alien astronomer were looking at


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our sun's wobble from across the galaxy,


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would they actually be able to untangle


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that messy combined signal to identify


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indiv individual planets and their


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specific characteristics? Or does the


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wobble method just tell us, hey, there


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are planets here without giving away the


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exact details of who's who. Love the


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show. Keep up the fantastic work,


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Hussein. That's a really well-crafted


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question. Thank you, Hussein.


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It's a great question as well. Uh and


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the the answer in a way is is both uh


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both the two alternatives that Hussein's


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put forward. Uh can you disentangle them


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or does the wobble method just tell us


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hey there are planets there without


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giving away the exact details? And what


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dis differentiates


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between them is first of all how bright


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the star is, how near it is. So what


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kind of strength of signal you get in


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terms of measuring the velocity of the


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star itself by this doppler wubble


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method uh to to analyze for planets. But


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also it depends on the sizes of the


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planets and on their mix uh as well. Um,


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so just thinking about the solar system,


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we've got the biggest planet, Jupiter.


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That's the one that has by far the


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biggest effect on the sun. Saturn comes


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next uh in terms of its size. And then


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the other two uh gas giants um ne Uranus


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and Neptune. Uh the the terrestrial


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planets or rocky planets also have an


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effect. uh but because their masses are


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much lower, the effect is also much


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lower. It's mitigated slightly by the


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fact that they're nearer to the sun. Uh


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but nevertheless, they're they're much


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much weaker than the gas giants. So if


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you were uh you know an alien on a on a


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planet orbiting a a star maybe eight or


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nine light years away something like


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that which is the distance to Sirius uh


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the brightest star in the sky and you're


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looking back at the solar system uh the


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first thing you would see would be the


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the the main motion which would be due


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to Jupiter because its mass is so much


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bigger than the the other planets.


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However, if you had really highly


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accurate velocity measurements and you'd


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need them almost to centimeters/s


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accuracy, uh it can be done. Uh there


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are ways of calibrating spectrographs to


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let you do this. Uh but if you did have


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these really accurate readings and you


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could and you could do your measurements


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almost 247, which you can't because


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certainly if we're anything like the


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Earth, you've got daylight coming in the


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way, but you know what you want to do is


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fill in the time domain as full as you


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can to get as many data points as you


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can. Then what you would do you build up


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a picture which would be dominated by


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Jupiter but the graph of the speed of


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the star the wobble of the star would


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have little ups and downs in it caused


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by the other planets


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uh and you can disentangle those. There


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is a technique called Forier analysis.


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Uh it uses uh things that we call fast


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for furier transforms which is a


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mathematical tool that's uh kind of


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dates from the early days of computing


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in fact well before that when people did


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their calculations by hand. But for this


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it's a way of disentangling just how


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many what we might call periodicities.


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In other words, how many regular um


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passages are there


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caused by individual planets, if I can


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put it that way. So, so you can tease


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out the effect of each individual planet


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because they all have different periods


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of uh revolution around around the sun


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in the case of you know, if you're


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looking at the solar system. So, um, if


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you've got good enough data, you can,


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uh, as Hussein suggests, uh, identify


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the individual planets and their


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specific characteristics. But if your


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data aren't so good, then you're


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basically just seeing the biggest ones


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of them, and that's just telling you


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that there's there's at least one planet


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there.


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>> Yeah. Early on when we started


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discovering uh, exoplanets, we were only


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finding the big ones, weren't we? We


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>> we assumed there were small ones, but we


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it took us a long time to find the first


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one, didn't it?


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>> That's right. And and in fact, um it


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highlights the uh the deficiencies of


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the Doppler Wubble method, what Hussein


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was talking about, as a way to discover


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planets because it's it's really that's


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most sensitive to the biggest ones. Uh


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it was when the Kepler spacecraft uh and


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uh TESS the the the other um planet


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finding spacecraft when they started


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looking in detail at the way the


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brightness of stars changed as as


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planets passed in front of their parent


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stars. U that's when we started


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discovering the smaller ones because the


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smaller ones are actually uh easier to


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discover that way.


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>> Um here's a dumb question.


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Uh,


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can we can


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>> can we look with accuracy at the wobble


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of our own sun because of the planets


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surrounding it, including our own?


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>> Yeah. Uh, you can. Yes. Um and um it you


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you can actually find um uh diagrams


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showing the way


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it's what we call the Barry center. The


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Barry center of the solar system is the


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the its center of gravity which takes


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into account not just the sun uh but the


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planets as well. And the Barry center


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does wander around. It's mostly it's


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inside the sun. It does it it does come


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outside the sun from time to time. Uh


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but uh you can find charts showing


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exactly how that happens. Uh you know,


00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:52.790
little maps of the way the Barisentra of


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the solar system wanders around relative


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to the sun.


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>> Okay. I I wondered I didn't I didn't


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know if we could do it within our own


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sphere, so to speak.


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>> Not a dumb question at all. Absolutely


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not.


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>> There you go. I occasionally ask one


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that's adequate. Uh and uh thank you to


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Hussein for sending that question in


00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:16.630
from Yemen. Lovely to hear from you and


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you're listening to Space Nuts with


00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:21.590
Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


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Let's take a quick break from the show


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And don't forget the code word


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spacenuts.


00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:06.150
>> I'm gonna step off the land now.


00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:11.509
That's one small step for man,


00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:14.470
one lead for mankind.


00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.150
>> Space nuts.


00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:18.550
>> Let's uh hit you with an audio question


00:11:18.560 --> 00:11:22.069
from one of our regular contributors.


00:11:22.079 --> 00:11:27.030
>> Hello, Space Nuts. Martin Berman Gorvine


00:11:27.040 --> 00:11:32.389
here from PTOAC, Maryland, USA. Writer


00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:36.310
extraordinaire in many genres


00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:41.910
with a slightly less silly though still


00:11:41.920 --> 00:11:45.350
highly speculative


00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:46.949
question.


00:11:46.959 --> 00:11:51.750
Since dark energy is thought to pervade


00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:55.509
the entire universe,


00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.710
would it be possible, at least in


00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:02.790
theory, to harness that energy


00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:07.910
to drive space flight? And if so, could


00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:11.910
you make a spacecraft go arbitrarily


00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:14.550
fast by that means?


00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:16.790
you know, 99


00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:19.750
a whole bunch of nines


00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:24.470
of the speed of light for that extra


00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.150
relativistic


00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:30.389
philillip. So that when you step out at


00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:35.590
your destination, the universe has aged


00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.750
significantly. But you, the traveler,


00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:41.750
have not


00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:45.590
can wait for the answer, which will


00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.350
probably involve Professor Watson


00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:53.110
shooting me down in flames as usual.


00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.990
Berman Gorvine. Over and out. Out.


00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.990
>> Thanks, Martin. Uh, Martin sent me a


00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.949
couple copy of two of his latest books,


00:13:02.959 --> 00:13:05.030
which I haven't had a chance to to read.


00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:07.910
I did promise I would, but um I was too


00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.750
busy writing my own. So um but I will


00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:13.110
get to them. Martin, thanks for sending


00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.110
those in. Uh fire away, Fred,


00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.910
>> to to shoot him down. Uh I have to say


00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:22.629
these um these questions do sound like


00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.110
the making of another of Martin's books.


00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.750
So, uh, you know, putting the the


00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:32.629
ingredients, uh, of, um, of science into


00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.069
the books, it's a great idea. If you're


00:13:34.079 --> 00:13:35.269
going to write science fiction, it's


00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.590
nice to have some science in it as well.


00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:42.230
>> So, um, yes, you do. Um I what what


00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.430
Martin's question made me think about


00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:50.310
was um the number of jewels of energy


00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.069
contained


00:13:52.079 --> 00:13:55.110
represented by dark energy per cubic


00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.629
meter of space and I have no idea what


00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.670
that is but I bet per cubic meter it's


00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:06.389
actually quite small uh because um we


00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:08.310
only see the effect of dark energy when


00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.069
we look at the universe.


00:14:10.079 --> 00:14:12.310
on a very large scale. When we look, you


00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.389
know, billions of light years out, we


00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.430
start to see its effects. We can tell


00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:19.189
that the universe has been expanding


00:14:19.199 --> 00:14:21.990
more rapidly uh since the universe was


00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.150
about half its present age. Uh so I I I


00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:28.150
guess you know if you imagine a tank


00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:32.230
full of dark energy uh on a on any kind


00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.150
of human scale whether it's the size of


00:14:34.160 --> 00:14:36.230
a I don't know you know size of the fuel


00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.030
tank on your car or the size of a the


00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:42.150
average super tanker um my guess is that


00:14:42.160 --> 00:14:43.829
the amount of energy that that would


00:14:43.839 --> 00:14:46.949
contain would actually be quite small.


00:14:46.959 --> 00:14:49.590
Um, I'm happy to be shot down on that,


00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.269
but I think it would simply because


00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.310
you're looking at an a, you know, an


00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.310
almost an infinite decimally small


00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.030
volume compared with the volumes that we


00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:00.710
think about when we're talking about the


00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:01.990
expansion of the universe and the


00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.389
accelerated expansion of the universe.


00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.350
So, um, how do you bottle it? Well, good


00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.069
question. Uh, that's the the first thing


00:15:10.079 --> 00:15:11.910
you've got to do is find a way of


00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:14.310
extracting dark energy from space,


00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.710
putting it in a tank. But you might find


00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:18.710
that if you do that on any kind of


00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.949
conceivable scale, you don't have enough


00:15:20.959 --> 00:15:22.790
to make any difference whatsoever to


00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:25.189
your spacecraft, let alone accelerate it


00:15:25.199 --> 00:15:27.910
to 99.999999999%


00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.269
of the speed of light. Uh so um I hope


00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.990
that's uh suitably satisfactory shooting


00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.030
down Martin. Uh I don't always shoot


00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:39.590
your theories down. I think uh your


00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.430
ideas are lovely and well worth


00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:42.629
listening to.


00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:43.670
>> Yes.


00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.590
He's got a way he's got a way of asking


00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.230
questions that um lots of lots of fun.


00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.430
Lots of fun. He does.


00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.230
>> Uh thank you, Martin. Um we've got some


00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.310
live uh listeners uh or viewers um who


00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.629
messaged us and uh remember James from


00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:00.310
Cincinnati. Haven't heard from James in


00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.910
ages. Well, he's just popped up to say


00:16:01.920 --> 00:16:04.710
hello. So, hi James. And uh a question


00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.710
without notice um which sort of goes


00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.710
back to our radial velocity method of


00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.710
searching for exoplanets. Um I'm


00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:12.230
wondering


00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.230
um so we already know other sons have


00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:15.910
planets so why the extensive


00:16:15.920 --> 00:16:17.509
investigation to keep searching for


00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.230
more? What's the point?


00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.949
>> Oh it's a good question. Um so it's uh


00:16:22.959 --> 00:16:25.590
all about it's it's surveying um


00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:29.189
basically uh astronomers are in veterate


00:16:29.199 --> 00:16:32.870
surveyors. It's how we discover the


00:16:32.880 --> 00:16:34.629
large scale characteristics of the


00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.269
universe and it's also how we find the


00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:38.949
outliers, the things that are really


00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:42.470
peculiar uh and that need explanation


00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.870
and that sometimes defy science as we


00:16:44.880 --> 00:16:47.990
know it and um often result in you know


00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.350
physics being written rewritten. Uh so


00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.949
uh it's it's almost it's like doing


00:16:54.959 --> 00:16:57.110
population census studies. It's why do


00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:58.629
you why do you want to know how many


00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.670
people uh live in a country and and it's


00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:04.230
all about um well in in the case of


00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:05.829
humans it's all about providing the


00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:07.909
right resources for them but in the case


00:17:07.919 --> 00:17:10.870
of how why you know why do you want to


00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:12.230
know how many different kinds of


00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.549
exoplanets there are uh it's because we


00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.390
might find exactly what we've just been


00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.470
talking about the water worlds uh we


00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.150
might find habitable worlds we might


00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.710
even find a seti signal from one of them


00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.429
so uh this is very much an important


00:17:25.439 --> 00:17:28.470
part of uh the astronomers understanding


00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.430
of the universe to to uh explore and


00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.190
investigate as many as these things as


00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:34.230
we can.


00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:35.990
>> Yeah. And of course the most important


00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.190
reason if we do a a planetary census we


00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.590
can then introduce an international tax


00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:42.789
system


00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.950
>> or intergalactic tax system.


00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:46.390
>> More to the point.


00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:47.669
>> Yes.


00:17:47.679 --> 00:17:50.230
>> Okay. Uh you are listening to a Q&A


00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.390
edition of Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.510
and Professor Fred Watson.


00:17:57.520 --> 00:18:00.390
3 2 1


00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:01.830
>> Space nuts.


00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:04.870
>> Our next question comes from Sweden. Uh,


00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.990
can matter that falls into a black hole


00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.029
keep its angular momentum and sort of


00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.190
add it to the black hole's angular


00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.310
momentum? uh or does matter fall into a


00:18:16.320 --> 00:18:19.830
black hole um or does matter falling


00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:21.990
into a black hole need to shed its


00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.630
angular momentum or part of it through


00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.789
uh radiating energy out into space


00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.150
before it can fall down the hole? If so,


00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.029
why can't a black hole that can retain


00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:36.070
light and spaghettify things pull things


00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:39.029
in despite their angular momentum and


00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:40.950
just add the incoming momentum to


00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.350
itself? That comes from Peter in Sweden.


00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:47.750
Uh, it's one of those complicated


00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:49.830
questions that would have wiped me out


00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:52.310
at school based on some form of


00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:56.630
geometry.


00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.390
Uh, I am so I don't know the answer to


00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.590
this question. Um, but


00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:05.430
thinking what little I do know about


00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.549
black holes, I would guess. Um, and I I


00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.789
need to check this Peter, so I apologize


00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.110
that this is off an offthe cuff answer,


00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:14.710
but I would guess that the angular


00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.549
momentum does it that it is additive.


00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.630
Uh, that you would add the angular


00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.669
momentum of incoming accreted material,


00:19:23.679 --> 00:19:25.350
which will have it because it's whizzing


00:19:25.360 --> 00:19:26.870
around the black hole at very high


00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:27.750
speeds.


00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:31.110
>> Yeah. um as the black hole collap as the


00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:33.350
stuff crosses the event horizon and is


00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:35.830
subsumed into the black hole. Uh I would


00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:38.310
guess that actually adds to the to the


00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:40.310
black hole's angular momentum. But I'll


00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:42.630
need to check uh and I will do that


00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.029
because that's a really good question.


00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:46.950
>> Okay. Well, that was easy.


00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:48.390
>> Yeah. Well, it wasn't because I don't


00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.549
know the answer, but


00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.470
uh but I'm guessing I I I think it


00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:53.669
probably would.


00:19:53.679 --> 00:19:55.669
>> Yeah. Actually, reminds me. We had one


00:19:55.679 --> 00:19:57.430
we had to do some homework on recently


00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.669
and I think we've


00:19:59.679 --> 00:20:01.270
>> I don't know if we did it. Anyway, I'll


00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:01.750
go through.


00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:04.150
>> I usually make a Yeah, I usually make


00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.909
notes on things like that as well. I


00:20:05.919 --> 00:20:07.510
think you're right, too.


00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:08.710
>> Yeah.


00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.430
>> We might do a whole show on on followup


00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:13.430
think on things we've forgotten.


00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.669
>> Things we've forgotten to look up.


00:20:15.679 --> 00:20:16.470
>> Yeah.


00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.750
>> Um we might get back to you, Peter.


00:20:19.760 --> 00:20:22.470
Uh thanks for the question. Um, this


00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.070
question,


00:20:24.080 --> 00:20:26.310
this question needs setting up because


00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:28.950
it's a it's a question, but it's not a


00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.669
question. Uh, and it comes from, uh,


00:20:31.679 --> 00:20:33.190
Dave. Now, I know people have


00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.430
accidentally called me Dave from time to


00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.390
time. It's nice to have a real Dave. And


00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.230
when I read your question, Dave, I


00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.510
thought I I can't just let you go. I've


00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:46.070
got to um preempt it with something that


00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:48.390
I thought was appropriate.


00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.230
>> Hello, Dave.


00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.110
you're looking well today.


00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:56.390
>> Um, this is Dave.


00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.230
>> Greetings. Yeah, this is Dave from


00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.710
Gilbert, Arizona with apologies in


00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.190
advance for my question. So, anyway, I


00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.029
don't know if you uh heard about this,


00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.950
but um it's been reported that there's


00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.630
something strange in the region of our


00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.950
solar system somewhere between Saturn


00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.669
and Neptune. and I wanted to hear your


00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:15.430
opinion on the notion that it could be a


00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.149
black hole or a brown dwarf or possibly


00:21:18.159 --> 00:21:20.870
a black dwarf or a brown hole out near


00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.430
the orbit of Uranus.


00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.270
So, by the way, uh some people in the US


00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:27.669
government have pooed this idea while


00:21:27.679 --> 00:21:30.390
others from the US military such as Coen


00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.789
Powell and several rear admirals are


00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.270
calling for a probe so we can get to the


00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:37.510
bottom of this. Now, I was wondering if


00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:38.950
you can get behind this notion or if


00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.590
you'd care to rebut it. In either case,


00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:43.029
I'm looking forward to hearing your


00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.310
posterior analysis. Uh, I also have a


00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:48.710
question about Dang it, I gotta go.


00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.230
That's my landlord calling. I must be in


00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.390
a rears again on my rent. I'll have to


00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:53.830
call you back later with my question


00:21:53.840 --> 00:21:56.549
about super mass of dark matter.


00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.149
Although that might actually be more of


00:21:58.159 --> 00:22:00.630
a medical question. Anyway, I wanted to


00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.870
say that your podcast is a real asset to


00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.070
the astronomical community. No, if ifs


00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:08.390
or buts about that. So, cheers to you


00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.270
slashbottoms up.


00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:14.149
>> Oh dear. That's very clever, Dave. Um, I


00:22:14.159 --> 00:22:15.990
don't think we've ever had You ready for


00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.149
this one, Fred? I don't think we've ever


00:22:18.159 --> 00:22:23.110
had such an asinine question.


00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:25.430
>> Dear dear. Oh dear.


00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.590
>> Yeah, it's um it's got every buzz word


00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:29.590
in the dictionary in there, hasn't it?


00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:31.990
>> It sure has. Especially the no ifs, so


00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:32.870
buts. I like that.


00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.590
>> I loved it. I loved it. Well done, Dave.


00:22:35.600 --> 00:22:38.070
I I I like that he spent time thinking


00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:41.029
about that and and come up with


00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.990
>> Yeah, all those superlatives.


00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.029
>> It's very very well done. Um my answer


00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:51.190
to it is uh yes, accreted material does


00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.590
add to the angular momentum of a black


00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:53.909
hole.


00:22:53.919 --> 00:22:55.270
>> Oh, you looked it up.


00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:57.430
>> I looked it up while while I was


00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.590
enjoying Dave's question because I I


00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:01.029
know having heard it before that I


00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:02.630
didn't have to provide an answer to


00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:04.870
that.


00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:06.870
Yeah, actually the live audience thought


00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.190
that was brilliant too. We've got some


00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:10.870
remarks about it. So,


00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.950
>> and and another question without notice,


00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.669
Fred. Um


00:23:15.679 --> 00:23:19.430
>> when AI first came along,


00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.470
>> um the the questioner can remember that


00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.390
and I think we all can, but can


00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:29.590
Professor Watson say um whether or not


00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:33.029
AI is being used by SETI? Didn't we get


00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:35.830
that question the other day or a similar


00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:39.590
question about the use of AI in um in uh


00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:41.750
in astronomy? I don't know if we did it


00:23:41.760 --> 00:23:43.029
in regard to the search for


00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.710
extraterrestrials.


00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.270
>> Yeah.


00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:47.830
>> Yes, we did. We did about the way it can


00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.870
be used to to really tease out


00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.230
information that might otherwise uh go


00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.029
unnoticed because the stat statistical


00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:01.990
methods that we use. So um uh it's an


00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.430
intriguing thought though uh when you


00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:07.110
turn it the other way round in regard to


00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:10.390
SETI whether the extra the putitive


00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.190
extraterrestrial intelligence itself is


00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.269
using AI and may even be AI um how would


00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:22.870
we disentangle that from um a non AI um


00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.470
uh extraterrestrial entity it leads us


00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.230
into all kinds of uncharted waters.


00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:29.430
does. That's quite an interesting


00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:30.549
question.


00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:34.230
>> It does indeed. Um,


00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.350
and back to Dave's uh tongue-in-cheek


00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:41.669
question, uh, of course there is a an


00:24:41.679 --> 00:24:43.909
object that they think is is out there


00:24:43.919 --> 00:24:45.669
somewhere that we haven't yet found, and


00:24:45.679 --> 00:24:49.590
that's called Planet 9. So, even though


00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:51.350
he I know he I know where he was coming


00:24:51.360 --> 00:24:54.390
from, he was um he was being extra funny


00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.470
and the comments are still coming from


00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.190
people who thought it was. Um but in


00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:00.710
reality,


00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.430
there there is definitely a possibility


00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.590
of something out there that they haven't


00:25:05.600 --> 00:25:08.549
found, but they they know


00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.510
it exists. whether it's a planet or a


00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:15.430
bunch of stuff that's um that's that's


00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.710
affecting the the outer solar system I


00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.909
suppose.


00:25:19.919 --> 00:25:21.909
>> Correct. And it's been in the news again


00:25:21.919 --> 00:25:24.070
recently actually. I almost put it up as


00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:26.149
one of the topics we should cover that


00:25:26.159 --> 00:25:27.909
um you know there have been more


00:25:27.919 --> 00:25:30.710
comments on the possibility of planet 9.


00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.350
the the original researchers who


00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:37.669
highlighted this um Mike Brown and uh


00:25:37.679 --> 00:25:41.029
his one of his colleagues they have


00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.750
basically said that


00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:46.630
if if it's not planet 9 there is still


00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.950
something that needs explained which is


00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.110
more or less what you've just said. Uh


00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:53.110
but um they are still very confident


00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:56.549
that we will unear a very distant planet


00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.789
quite a massive one that is affecting


00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.909
the orbits of these um trans neptunian


00:26:01.919 --> 00:26:04.230
objects which are in very elongated


00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.549
orbits. So the the jury is still out on


00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.149
it. It's one of these I think it's one


00:26:08.159 --> 00:26:09.750
of these questions that we'll talk about


00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:12.310
for some time to come. Andrew


00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:14.789
>> and like the questions are coming but we


00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.110
can't keep we can't like we'll be here


00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:20.149
all day if we go. But um back to the AI


00:26:20.159 --> 00:26:22.950
question, how else has AI been used in


00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.990
astronomy? Uh I I think the uh


00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.149
possibilities are endless, aren't they?


00:26:28.159 --> 00:26:32.230
>> Yeah, pretty well. Um uh it's it's you


00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.870
know, I mean people the the main way is


00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.110
the way I've just described in terms of


00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:39.350
actually using it to advance astronomy.


00:26:39.360 --> 00:26:41.909
People use AI, I'm sure, for writing


00:26:41.919 --> 00:26:43.909
their papers, and I do know one of my


00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:46.950
colleagues in Arizona uh uses AI to mark


00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:48.630
the papers as well.


00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:50.149
Wow. He he said


00:26:50.159 --> 00:26:52.230
>> looking looking for patterns of people


00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.909
who didn't think for themselves.


00:26:55.919 --> 00:26:58.149
>> I think looking for the whole hug. He um


00:26:58.159 --> 00:26:59.750
he presented a paper. This was at a


00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:01.190
conference. Was it last year or the year


00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.310
before? I think it was the year before


00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:05.590
last. uh which um was he he was very


00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:08.310
impressed with the um the uh I don't


00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:10.549
know which which breed of AI he was


00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.990
using but he was very impressed with the


00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.149
outcomes from that and said they they


00:27:14.159 --> 00:27:16.950
actually matched the human marking


00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:20.789
results uh very well. Uh but just aside


00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:23.590
from that I think um the the main use in


00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:25.510
advancing astronomy is very much in


00:27:25.520 --> 00:27:27.430
applying it to these very large data


00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:31.669
sets. Yeah, I I have used it quite a bit


00:27:31.679 --> 00:27:35.029
uh in researching elements of my books


00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.630
when I write. Um I I've already started


00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.350
a prequel to my latest to to my new


00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:44.549
trilogy which is um going well and


00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.390
thanks to everyone who's who's bought a


00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.390
copy. Uh


00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.350
and it's it's lots of fun. I actually uh


00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:55.190
have found a way of using AI um that


00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.590
that uh I really enjoy. It's not just


00:27:57.600 --> 00:27:59.510
about doing a search, but you can sit


00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:01.430
there and literally have a conversation


00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.990
and and weed out information as you go.


00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.950
It's it's a lot of fun. Um my wife


00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:11.110
thought I was, you know, a bit beyond my


00:28:11.120 --> 00:28:13.510
station using AI because I'm I'm not a


00:28:13.520 --> 00:28:16.789
young person. Um she went to the


00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.470
hairdresser the other day and um the


00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.389
hairdresser said, "I'm going to redesign


00:28:20.399 --> 00:28:23.430
my salon. I asked Chat GPT to design it


00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:24.470
for me."


00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.389
>> Well, now she's using AI, isn't she?


00:28:26.399 --> 00:28:28.870
Yeah. Okay. Wouldn't wouldn't do it if I


00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.710
suggested it,


00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.230
>> but the hairdresser, they know


00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:35.350
everything. Um, okay. Thanks to


00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:37.750
everybody who sending questions and our


00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:39.430
live audience for contributing as well.


00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.669
It's been a lot of fun. And thank you,


00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:43.669
Fred. Uh, that brings us to the end of


00:28:43.679 --> 00:28:46.230
yet another episode.


00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.389
>> It does, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, I've


00:28:48.399 --> 00:28:50.870
I've learned something in that one. Um,


00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.470
that yes, angular momentum does add from


00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:57.190
accreted material. So there you go. All


00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.350
right, we'll see you soon, Fred. Thank


00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:00.070
you.


00:29:00.080 --> 00:29:01.669
>> Cheers for


00:29:01.679 --> 00:29:03.430
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.110
large. And if you've got questions for


00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:06.789
us, please jump on our website,


00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:08.470
spacenutspodcast.com


00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:10.230
or spacenuts.io


00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.870
if you're a lazy typist. And click on


00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.029
the AMA tab at the top and send us your


00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:16.950
text or audio questions. Don't forget to


00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:18.149
tell us who you are and where you're


00:29:18.159 --> 00:29:19.909
from. We just like to know so that we


00:29:19.919 --> 00:29:23.990
can spam you later. Uh, and uh, thanks


00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.470
to Hugh in the studio. Um, although Hugh


00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.269
couldn't be with us today.


00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.590
We've been um, searching for for Planet


00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:33.510
9, which is difficult to find, but I


00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:35.350
reckon we'll probably find it before we


00:29:35.360 --> 00:29:38.070
find Hugh. And from me, Andrew Dunley,


00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:39.909
thanks for your company. We'll see you


00:29:39.919 --> 00:29:41.830
on the next episode of Space Nuts.


00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:42.710
Bye-bye.


00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.029
>> Space Nuts. You've been listening to the


00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.070
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00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:51.029
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