The Black Hole Discovery Revealing the Loudest Gravitational Wave Ever Recorded | Space Nuts:...

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Language: en

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Hello there. Thanks for joining us. This


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is Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy


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and space science. My name is Andrew


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Dunley. Great to have your company on


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this the 600 millionth episode. It's


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maybe not that many, but we've done


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quite a few. What is it? 6 643 we're up


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to. Blimey. All right. Uh what are we


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talking about? We're talking about a um


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an old clapped out telescope. Uh Fred


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happens to be its patron. He's old and


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clapped out, too. Uh we're also going to


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uh look at um a new black hole discovery


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which was made after


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um two black holes collided and they


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recorded the loudest crash of gravit


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gravitational waves ever. So what's it


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going to tell us? Uh also uh China is


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going to upgrade its space station and


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launch a new space telescope and a star


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that got close to our sun may have


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caused a bit of a disturbance in the


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force. We'll tell you all about it on


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this episode of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And he's back again as always. It's


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Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


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large. Hello, Fred.


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>> Hello, Andrew. Hello. Uh, thank you for


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that nice introduction. It's uh nice to


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hear a welcome like that.


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>> You know it. I know I only said it a few


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seconds ago, but I forgot what I said


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and then it dawned on me that I'd


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actually insulted you. Yes.


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>> Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. No,


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that's all right. I'm uh


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>> That's all right. You last week.


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>> I am old and clapped out. There's no


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question about that.


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>> Aren't we all?


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>> Aren't we all? Um now uh before we get


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into uh today's stories, um the old


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clapped out telescope I referred to is


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actually uh a wonderful device uh that


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I've actually seen in person when we


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were down in Melbourne a few years ago.


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>> Uh it's the Melbourne telescope, dates


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back to 1869. And you're its patron


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because you were there when they put the


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first screw in it.


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>> I got you again.


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>> Yeah. So the the link and the reason why


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I'm well there's a number of reasons why


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this telescope is very close to my


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heart. One is that uh it was I was still


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at school when I found a picture of it


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in Henry King's history of the


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telescope, a very famous uh book on the


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history of telescopes published I think


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in 1955.


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Um I had a copy of that in the school


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library and there's this telescope


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there, the great Melbourne telescope and


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I thought that is that is a telescope.


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That's what I want. one like it looks it


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just looks like you'd expect one to


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look, doesn't it?


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>> You can tell it's a telescope. It's got


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um with decorative bits like the the


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lattis work tube which is uh very


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unusual, almost unique. Anyway, that was


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my first um encounter with it uh and


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sort of followed up as much as I could.


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I didn't realize that by then it was


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actually in CRA at Mount Stromlo. had


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been refurbished um having left


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Melbourne in 1944. But uh one h 100red


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years exactly after work started on the


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manufacturer of that telescope in 1867


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100 years later I joined the company


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that built it. Uh so it was uh it's 20th


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century equivalent. It was uh Howard


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Grub Dublin when uh it was the telescope


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was built. By the time I got there it


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was Sir Howard Grub Parsons and Company


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Limited, but it was basically the same


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company amalgamated in 1926 with the


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Parson's company. So um so I continued


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my kinship with that telescope and uh uh


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of course when I came to Australia was


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interested to see it at Stromlo. Then in


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2003, uh the Stromlo observatory had


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that terrible fire, bush fire that went


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through, destroyed all the heritage


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buildings, including the one that uh


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that telescope sat in uh and basically


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melted uh a lot of the well melted the


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dome onto the telescope. The dome was


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aluminium uh and the telescope was


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wrecked, its mirror was smashed and all


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the rest of it. Uh so I when I so I


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wrote a book on the history of


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telescopes which was published I think


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just after that fire because um I wrote


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at the end I had a whole chapter on this


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telescope and I wrote something to the


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effect that


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>> uh the best we could hope to see would


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be for it to be a static exhibit in in a


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museum just the remnants


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>> uh which was for a while. Well, it


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wasn't. No, it stayed put in Strummlow.


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And it was 5 years after the fire, 2008,


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when this consortium of uh museums


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Victoria, the Astronomical Society of


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Victoria, uh Royal Botanic Gardens,


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Melbourne, because that's where it


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started its career.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Uh and uh and the uh I think the Bureau


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of Meteorology were involved as well. Uh


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and they got together a plan to to


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basically restore it. M uh and uh so I


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did play a role in that in 2015. We we


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actually had a held a workshop which I


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chaired which was about how you could


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update the optics of the telescope


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because the mechanical stuff could be re


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refurbished uh but the optics were a


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different matter uh and a sort of


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optical prescription was was drawn up.


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Now those optics are still in the


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process of being manufactured. Uh but


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the telescope itself is now essentially


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mechanically complete. It is as complete


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as it was when it was built and and the


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work that's been done and more than 100


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volunteers and staff from Museums


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Victoria and the Astronomical Society of


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Victoria, it's well over a hundred have


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worked on it. And so last week there was


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a little party to celebrate that. and uh


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some of the museum's dignitaries said a


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few words, I said a few words. The chap


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who's been leading the project, Simon


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Brink, over the last few years, he said


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a few words. He's actually coming to


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coming to lunch with us on Saturday. Oh,


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>> lovely. Even though he's he's in


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Melbourne, he's coming up um which is


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nice. So, we've um so we had a


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celebration. So, and to be honest, what


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they've done is nothing short of


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miraculous because there weren't any


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diagrams of all the bits and pieces of


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this telescope. There were engineering


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diagrams of the thing complete. Uh they


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were published in a journal. But the


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individual parts and probably thousands


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of components, screws, washers, uh


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pulleys, cog wheels of various different


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sized, all of that, no idea what they


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look like. And by scouring photographs


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of the telescope uh from many sources


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and working out things like the numbers


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of teeth you need on a cog wheel to make


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the things work properly. Uh they've


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done a great job with all that and now


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it's in basically in perfect working


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order except it doesn't have its main


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mirror yet that's being fabricated. Um


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it's at the moment still at Science


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Works which is the science museum in


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Victoria and it's a


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>> which is worth a visit especially with


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the kids.


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>> Yeah, it's a great place to go. Uh and


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anybody who does go to Melbourne and


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sees science works definitely have a


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look at the great Melbourne telescope.


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The hope is that one day it will be in


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its original building which still exists


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in the Royal Botanic Gardens. uh but um


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there's quite a bit of work needs to be


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done to make that uh ONS uh satisfactory


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for 2026 or where whenever it happens


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compared with the um you know the health


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and safety regulations in 1869 when


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people came and went u just had a look


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through the telescope that's the idea


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that it will eventually be a working


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telescope for the public for people to


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come and look through


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>> wonderful and uh if you can't get down


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to see it in Melbourne and uh just do a


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search for the Melbourne Telescope


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online and have a look at it and you'll


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know what we're talking about. Um the


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lattis work is just beautiful. Just it


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is a glorious piece of equipment


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>> and I stumbled across it. I didn't even


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know it was at Science Works when we


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went there and we just went for a wander


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and found it and I went, "Oh, Fred will


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love this." And then it turns out you


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were the patron. So that's right.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Yeah. It's um it is it's quite


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staggering. It's how big it is, isn't


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it? When you


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>> Oh, yeah. just went


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>> blows your mind. You just stand there in


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awe.


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>> Big telescope. It was the biggest fully


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steerable telescope in the world at the


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time when it was when it was built. It


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wasn't the biggest, but it biggest


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telescope in the world, but it wasn't


00:08:49.920 --> 00:08:50.710
far off.


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>> Yeah, as a good friend of mine often


00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.790
says, it's a great piece of kit.


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>> It was a great piece of kit, and


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hopefully it will be again one day.


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Fingers crossed.


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>> All right.


00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:02.230
>> Uh, moving on. We're talking black


00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:04.150
holes. Very unusual. We don't usually


00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:05.750
talk about things like this, but uh this


00:09:05.760 --> 00:09:07.509
this is an interesting one because they


00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.670
they've made a bit of a discovery. They


00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:11.910
they've recorded the loudest crash of


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gravitational waves ever heard, and it


00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.870
was because of two black holes that


00:09:16.880 --> 00:09:19.190
decided uh to play bills with each


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other. And boom. Uh but it's what


00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.870
they've discovered from the in the


00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:26.790
aftermath of all this that's getting


00:09:26.800 --> 00:09:27.990
interesting.


00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.870
>> Uh yes, it is. Um so yeah we black um


00:09:32.880 --> 00:09:34.710
gravitational waves from colliding


00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.070
objects have been detectable by humans


00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:39.990
since 2015


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um with uh the LIGO gravit laser


00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:44.949
interferometer gravitational wave


00:09:44.959 --> 00:09:47.269
observatory in America and that now


00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:51.590
works with uh Virgo which is an Italian


00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.310
uh uh gravitational wave observatory and


00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:57.030
Kagra which is the kamioa gravitational


00:09:57.040 --> 00:09:59.509
wave detector in Japan. And so those


00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.750
three telescopes work together to pick


00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:05.509
up the vibrations of space uh which are


00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:08.310
transmitted from very distant collisions


00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:10.550
usually and it's usually neutron stars


00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:13.110
and black holes uh with collisions


00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.030
between either neutron stars and neutron


00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:17.750
stars or black holes and black holes or


00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:20.470
neutron stars and black holes. um those


00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:22.630
all produce gravitational wave signals


00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:25.190
that are actually in the frequency range


00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.829
detectable by uh these telescopes


00:10:27.839 --> 00:10:30.230
because that's a key part of it. The the


00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:32.470
amount of energy that's involved tells


00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:33.990
you what the frequency of the


00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.550
gravitational waves is going to be. And


00:10:36.560 --> 00:10:39.509
as we've noted before, Andrew, it's


00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.990
curious that um the gravitational waves


00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.150
that these telescopes are sensitive to


00:10:44.160 --> 00:10:46.150
are actually in the audio frequency


00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:48.310
regime. Uh basically if you just


00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.870
amplified them uh you would have an


00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:52.790
audio signal and that's basically what


00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:54.069
they do except they're doing it in a


00:10:54.079 --> 00:10:57.750
very much more sophisticated way. Um the


00:10:57.760 --> 00:11:01.269
um the the amount of um shaking of space


00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.430
that they can they can detect is


00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.310
absolutely infinite decimal. Uh but


00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.310
these things are sensitive enough that


00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.030
they can measure a distance that is a


00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:15.190
thousandth I think it's a 10,000th


00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.990
actually of the diameter of a proton. Uh


00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.470
that's the uh the accuracy with which


00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.310
they can measure the distance between


00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.550
two mirrors which is how you do all this


00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:27.350
sort of thing. So that's the backstory.


00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:31.590
Uh the the up story, the forward story


00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.190
is that an object or a you don't have an


00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:36.790
object, you have a gravitational wave


00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:39.750
signal. Uh it's rejoices in the name of


00:11:39.760 --> 00:11:42.710
GW25014.


00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.630
Uh that tells you that it was picked up


00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:48.389
on in January uh 2025. Uh that's where


00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.389
the 25501


00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:55.990
comes from. Um uh and it uh basically


00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.630
uh on analysis


00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:03.350
um has been uh detected to be a


00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.069
collision between two black holes each


00:12:06.079 --> 00:12:09.350
of which had around 32 times the mass of


00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.069
the sun. And so they collided and that


00:12:12.079 --> 00:12:15.110
set uh you know set the gravitational


00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.350
waves on their way because it it it


00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.750
basically disturbed space. It rippled


00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:23.269
space. So what's happened is and and


00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:24.629
this as you mentioned at the beginning


00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.629
is the loudest gravitational wave signal


00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.230
that's been detected or the certainly


00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.949
the most uh intense the highest


00:12:30.959 --> 00:12:32.150
amplitude one.


00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:37.430
>> Yeah. Um so what has happened is uh that


00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.710
researchers uh have analyzed the audio


00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:45.750
signal um and they found in it um a


00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:47.430
basically it's been described as a


00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.949
feature uh which is something called a


00:12:50.959 --> 00:12:54.310
direct wave. It's a it's a component of


00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.509
the signal uh and it's and it's a direct


00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:01.110
wave uh that has not that's been seen


00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.470
before but hasn't nobody's worked out


00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:08.230
what it is but apparently it is a


00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:12.870
feature that essentially uh in the in


00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:15.030
the gravitational wave structure that


00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:18.310
comes from this event. You can tell this


00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.069
direct wave is to do with the event


00:13:22.079 --> 00:13:25.670
horizon of the combined black holes.


00:13:25.680 --> 00:13:27.990
>> So you've got two black holes, each of


00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.389
which is has got its own event horizon.


00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.150
They're spinning around one another


00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:34.150
getting ever closer as we've seen that


00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:36.150
sort of thing before and the frequency


00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:38.790
goes up of the gravitational waves. Um


00:13:38.800 --> 00:13:41.829
and then suddenly all stops because that


00:13:41.839 --> 00:13:43.750
they've collided and there's no more


00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:46.150
accelerations which is what you need to


00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:49.350
uh to set up gravitational waves. Um and


00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:53.030
but uh at that point the two um


00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:54.790
gravitate the sorry the two event


00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:58.550
horizons merge. Uh now a recap on event


00:13:58.560 --> 00:14:01.350
horizons that's the point of no return.


00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.590
Basically it's the it's the distance


00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.030
from the black hole uh where the escape


00:14:07.040 --> 00:14:08.550
velocity


00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:12.230
uh is more than the speed of light and


00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.629
so nothing can escape from within the


00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.269
event horizon uh and in particular light


00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:18.949
can't escape. So the event horizon is


00:14:18.959 --> 00:14:20.470
black. It's a sphere around the black


00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.550
hole uh through which you can't see


00:14:22.560 --> 00:14:25.189
because nothing escapes including light.


00:14:25.199 --> 00:14:28.310
So um that is what the event horizon is


00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.430
in a sense. It's imaginary. Uh, Andrew,


00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.189
you know, it's not it's not a real


00:14:33.199 --> 00:14:34.949
surface. It's an imaginary surface


00:14:34.959 --> 00:14:37.670
because it's just the boundary between


00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:39.590
what's visible and what's not vis not


00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.590
not visible.


00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:45.910
>> Now, we know when black holes collide,


00:14:45.920 --> 00:14:47.990
uh, I I don't know that much about the


00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.470
details of these things, but there is a


00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.870
a period immediately after they've


00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:55.189
merged which is called the ringdown. And


00:14:55.199 --> 00:14:57.430
it's a time when they sort of


00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.389
consolidate as one black hole. And that


00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.629
means their event horizons also


00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.269
consolidate. And I think this direct


00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.470
wave that has been detected is basically


00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:13.350
a uh an artifact of that ringdown. Uh


00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:18.230
and so um what I guess is uh perhaps the


00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.269
takeaway message from this work is not


00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.069
that we've learned something miraculous


00:15:24.079 --> 00:15:27.110
and and new about the event horizon, but


00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:28.790
that we've learned that there might be a


00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:32.389
way of in future gravitational wave


00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.509
events uh might be a way of analyzing


00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.430
these direct waves to give us more


00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.230
information on the black hole event


00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.230
horizon. Because at the moment we've we


00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.550
don't know much about it. We can we've


00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:47.910
seen them in the telescopes, you know,


00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:49.749
the um observations from the event


00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.790
horizon telescope that amalgam of many


00:15:52.800 --> 00:15:56.230
radio telescopes, an earth-sized array


00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.550
uh which has been used to look at the


00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:00.710
black holes in center of our own galaxy


00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.389
and in M57 I think it was uh with um


00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.310
with a fair fairly high degree of


00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.310
precision and what we've seen is the


00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.150
black shadow of the of the event


00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:14.870
horizon. Um, but perhaps with these


00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:17.189
gravitational waves, these direct waves,


00:16:17.199 --> 00:16:20.230
there might be a a way of teasing out


00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.030
even more detail from these distant and


00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:25.189
highly enigmatic objects.


00:16:25.199 --> 00:16:27.350
>> Yes, indeed. And another interesting


00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:28.949
thing that comes out of this story is


00:16:28.959 --> 00:16:31.990
that um that they're suggesting uh the


00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.670
measurements that that that they've made


00:16:35.680 --> 00:16:39.509
could be a step towards um future tests


00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.069
of general relativity


00:16:42.079 --> 00:16:44.310
>> using direct waves. So you know there's


00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.069
there's all sorts of potential by the


00:16:46.079 --> 00:16:46.710
sound of it.


00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:48.870
>> That's that's right. Yeah. I mean


00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:51.350
exactly and of course this is one of the


00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.910
holy grails of a of science generally


00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.150
actually certainly physics to find


00:16:56.160 --> 00:16:59.189
chinks in general relativity because at


00:16:59.199 --> 00:17:01.269
the moment it behaves exactly as


00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.030
predicted. Everything that we've seen in


00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:06.069
the universe follows the uh the the


00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:07.669
rules and regulations of general


00:17:07.679 --> 00:17:12.390
relativity uh in a perfect way. So maybe


00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.710
uh direct waves will as you said give us


00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.590
a way of testing general relativity. If


00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:20.549
we find um things that don't work in


00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:22.789
general relativity then that could be an


00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.630
opening into new physics which is


00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.549
certainly a hot topic at the moment.


00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.190
>> Indeed it is. Well, everyone including


00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.710
Einstein thinks something's wrong with


00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.630
it. They just they just can't fight


00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.549
anything at the moment. It keeps coming


00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:35.350
up


00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:37.430
>> aces every time they test it.


00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:38.789
>> Yeah. They think something's wrong with


00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.390
it because it doesn't it doesn't sit


00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.310
with quantum mechanics. The two are


00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:44.310
incompatible and they both work


00:17:44.320 --> 00:17:46.150
perfectly well, but they're


00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.549
incompatible.


00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:49.350
>> Weird, isn't it?


00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:51.110
>> Yes. That's very weird. Yeah. The other


00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:52.870
thing that I find fascinating about this


00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.270
story is that from something as simple


00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:58.310
as a as a a gravitational wave, they're


00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:00.950
able to break it down and find


00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.789
information that is is


00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.310
really just,


00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:08.470
>> you know, you you can't see any of this.


00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:10.470
It's all just data, isn't it?


00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:11.990
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. That's


00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.310
right. But the physics is well


00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:16.310
understood because general relativity is


00:18:16.320 --> 00:18:18.950
such a reliable tool for people to use


00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.590
to analyze these things. Um that's how


00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:23.990
we can make these statements about it.


00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.710
And yes um if we can find flaws with


00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.390
general relativity, it will be very


00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.150
exciting.


00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.669
>> Indeed it will. And you can read all


00:18:31.679 --> 00:18:34.470
about it at the space.com website. Uh


00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.669
they published their research uh in the


00:18:37.679 --> 00:18:40.630
journal Nature. This is Space Nuts with


00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:45.350
Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:46.950
Let's take a short break from the show


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00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:35.669
>> I believe that this nation should commit


00:20:35.679 --> 00:20:39.270
itself to achieving the goal before this


00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:41.990
decade is out of landing a man on the


00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.070
moon and returning him safely to the


00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:44.470
earth.


00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:46.149
>> These muts.


00:20:46.159 --> 00:20:49.029
>> Now, Fred, we turn our uh attention


00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.590
towards China. Of course, they've got a


00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:54.789
a very active space station in operation


00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.029
at the moment. Uh the latest news though


00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.029
is that they intend to uh make it bigger


00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:02.390
and at the same time they're going to


00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.110
put a new space telescope into uh into


00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:07.110
orbit as well. So they're really going


00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:09.669
ahead in leaps and bounds, aren't they?


00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:11.990
They are. Yes. Uh it's um you know this


00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.230
is part of the Chinese it's not the


00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.750
China National uh space agency. Uh I


00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:19.909
think it's that they've got a separate


00:21:19.919 --> 00:21:23.350
space agency for human space flight. Uh


00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:25.510
and that's the organization that


00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:28.549
operates the Tangong uh space station


00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.110
which has been up there since 2021 I


00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:33.669
think was when uh we started seeing it


00:21:33.679 --> 00:21:35.909
being assembled. It was assembled in a


00:21:35.919 --> 00:21:37.590
very similar manner to the International


00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:39.909
Space Station by building sort of


00:21:39.919 --> 00:21:42.710
modules that you can stick together like


00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.070
Lego uh up once once these modules are


00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:46.870
in orbit.


00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.950
>> Yeah. At the moment, it's the China


00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.350
National Space Administration, which


00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:53.590
handles the programs, and the China Man


00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:56.310
Space Agency, which um oversees human


00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:57.029
space flight.


00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:58.710
>> That's that that's right. I knew there


00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.350
were two organizations involved. Thank


00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:02.070
you for that.


00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:02.950
>> That's all right.


00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.549
>> Um


00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:08.710
so, uh yes. So uh at the moment the the


00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.990
tangon consists of three modules and


00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.029
they're arranged in a sort of T-shape uh


00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.070
with um uh two three the three end


00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:22.070
points of the modules if you like coming


00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:23.830
coming together in a in a sort of


00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:26.149
vestibule where you can uh tunnel your


00:22:26.159 --> 00:22:28.470
way from one to the to the other with um


00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.190
these basically entry and exit hatches


00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.230
that uh is the way things work on the


00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:36.630
International Space Station as Well, but


00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.470
as you've said, uh what they're now


00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.430
planning to do is to add three more


00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.789
modules. Um and the reason they want to


00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:49.110
do that is because uh they want to do


00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:52.230
more research up there, uh and make more


00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.390
frequent crew and cargo changes. Um so


00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.669
they're actually um I think the way to


00:22:59.679 --> 00:23:01.669
deal with that is to to make the space


00:23:01.679 --> 00:23:04.789
station bigger. Um, and so it's going to


00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.029
be what they're calling a double T


00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.669
shape, which I think is probably an H


00:23:09.679 --> 00:23:11.430
shape,


00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:13.029
if I can put it that way. Um,


00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:14.630
>> well, that's what Yeah, it would turn


00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.590
into that, wouldn't it?


00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:17.510
>> You'd expect so. Yes, that's right.


00:23:17.520 --> 00:23:20.070
Unless they do something clever,


00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:22.789
>> like turn one of the T's round uh at


00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:24.310
right angles to the other one. Anyway,


00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:25.909
we we don't know what's going to happen


00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:28.710
there, but um there is a new um


00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.830
multi-purpose module and two new


00:23:31.840 --> 00:23:34.789
experimental modules that are planned uh


00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:39.270
to um essentially uh you know allow


00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:42.390
Chinese uh space exploration in low


00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.310
earth orbit to continue and be extended.


00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:50.549
Um um we understand from um some of the


00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:54.789
researchers in China that uh it's always


00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.950
been uh an expectation that this would


00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:00.390
uh take place that there be this


00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.270
extension uh and what it will do in


00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:06.149
terms of the mass of the of the um space


00:24:06.159 --> 00:24:08.230
station is take it up from its current


00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.149
90 tons uh up to


00:24:12.159 --> 00:24:14.470
180 tons or thereabouts. And there's a


00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.470
yard stick if I remember rightly and you


00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:18.149
might be able to correct me here Andrew


00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:19.750
but I think the International Space


00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:22.149
Station is about 400 tons in terms of


00:24:22.159 --> 00:24:26.070
its mass. I think that is the case. So,


00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:30.390
uh, that's, uh, the plan and alongside


00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.230
that, as you've already mentioned,


00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:36.710
Andrew, is the idea of a new, um, space


00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.750
observatory, an optical telescope,


00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:41.830
>> quite similar in some ways to the Hubble


00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:43.430
Space Telescope,


00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:45.590
>> slightly smaller mirror, two mir 2 m


00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:48.950
rather than 2.3 m.


00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.310
Um, and also with a much wider field of


00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:54.710
view. The Hubble has quite a narrow


00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.350
field of view. Uh and in fact the Nancy


00:24:57.360 --> 00:25:00.310
Grace Roman telescope which is also very


00:25:00.320 --> 00:25:02.470
similar to the Hubble will have a much


00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.310
wider field of view than Hubble. That's


00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:07.269
being launched later this year I hope.


00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.190
um this uh uh Chinese telescope uh which


00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.590
has a name Shuntan I think is probably


00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:17.510
how it's how it's pronounced in my


00:25:17.520 --> 00:25:21.269
in my um poor Chinese uh poor Mandarin


00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:24.950
and poor Chinese. Uh it's um it's got a


00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.870
much bigger field of view and will


00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:31.669
actually give new uh surveys to uh


00:25:31.679 --> 00:25:33.909
Chinese astronomers. We'll see a lot


00:25:33.919 --> 00:25:36.230
more information about the universe


00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:37.510
coming from this telescope. The more


00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:38.950
telescopes you've got on the universe,


00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.630
the better. And uh Shunan will be one of


00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.350
those uh features when it is launched


00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:48.470
and actually commissioned uh that will


00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.110
we hope um really bring new insights


00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:52.870
into our knowledge of space.


00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.909
>> Yeah. Apparently its field of view is


00:25:55.919 --> 00:25:58.950
going to be massive compared to Hubble


00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.470
at 300 times.


00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.549
>> Correct. Yes, that's right. So, it's a


00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:04.870
wide-angle telescope rather than the the


00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:06.789
sort of pinpoint view of the of the


00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.430
Hubble.


00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.510
>> Yeah. Quite incredible. You uh you were


00:26:09.520 --> 00:26:10.870
right about the International Space


00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.909
Station. Uh 419,700


00:26:13.919 --> 00:26:18.789
kg is its mass or say 420


00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.909
>> um tons. Yes, indeed. Um the other


00:26:21.919 --> 00:26:23.590
interesting thing that China is working


00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:28.549
on uh is a new um delivery system for


00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.149
their they call them tyonauts, don't


00:26:30.159 --> 00:26:30.789
they?


00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.669
>> Yes, they do. Yeah. Uh they want to they


00:26:33.679 --> 00:26:35.190
want to develop a rocket system that


00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.669
will send seven up at a time.


00:26:37.679 --> 00:26:39.029
>> Yes. Yeah.


00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:41.350
>> Sponsored by Seven Up. No, I'm joking.


00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:43.510
But um they're going Yeah, that's what


00:26:43.520 --> 00:26:44.950
they're looking at doing at the moment.


00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.110
They can only send up three at a time.


00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:51.510
Yes. So the the the Chinese um uh


00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:54.950
orbital vehicle for getting astronauts


00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.950
up taken up there and I'm ashamed that I


00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:00.710
can't remember what it's called. Uh is


00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:04.870
it Shenzho Shenzhao? I I can't remember.


00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.230
But the that is basically an adaptation


00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.269
of the old Soyots Russian spacecraft


00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.870
which is still in service in the


00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:14.549
International Space Station developed in


00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:16.070
the 1960s.


00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:19.830
>> Uh a threeperson uh module. Uh I think


00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:21.909
I'm right in saying that the Crew Dragon


00:27:21.919 --> 00:27:25.029
can take up to seven astronauts as well.


00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.950
>> Interesting. Shenzhia.


00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.510
>> Shencho. Yeah. is the um is the system


00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:31.110
they're using right


00:27:31.120 --> 00:27:32.230
>> you did


00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:36.630
>> um so uh yes so that will go from 3 to 7


00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.470
it's understandable you know if you you


00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.310
want to keep the crews coming and going


00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:41.750
I think this is a really important


00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:44.549
development because um if nothing else


00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.990
it's going to I think spur


00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.669
uh the private sector on to pick up the


00:27:51.679 --> 00:27:54.470
baton of what you might call western


00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.470
international space stations or the


00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.310
western international space station


00:27:58.320 --> 00:27:59.990
because that's scheduled at the moment


00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.710
to to be decommissioned in 2030. That


00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.990
might change. Yeah.


00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.149
>> Uh but it's a possibility that we will


00:28:06.159 --> 00:28:09.590
lose the ISS in 2030. Uh and we've seen


00:28:09.600 --> 00:28:11.350
problems with, you know, the leakage


00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:13.590
that we had in one of the modules a


00:28:13.600 --> 00:28:16.149
couple of weeks ago where the crew was


00:28:16.159 --> 00:28:18.950
evacuated, not not evacuated, but moved


00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.389
the the American crew uh the NASA end of


00:28:22.399 --> 00:28:25.750
the spacecraft were moved into a crew


00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:29.269
dragon capsule to uh just be certain


00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.269
that nothing untored was going to happen


00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:35.190
if uh if there was a a a catastrophic


00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.990
leak. Uh when the Ross Cosmos


00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.909
Cosmonauts, they were actually trying to


00:28:39.919 --> 00:28:41.909
fix the leak, uh they moved the other


00:28:41.919 --> 00:28:44.789
crew into the um into the Crew Dragon


00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.070
capsule for safety.


00:28:46.080 --> 00:28:49.190
>> Yeah. Uh in terms of replacing the ISS,


00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.510
uh there are no firm plans at the


00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:53.990
moment, but they're they're kind of


00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.870
thinking about um I think you mentioned


00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.470
it, the commercial sector getting


00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.070
involved. Yeah.


00:29:00.080 --> 00:29:02.149
>> So, and and that's that's probably


00:29:02.159 --> 00:29:04.789
logical. I I'm I'm pretty sure that uh


00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.590
Elon would be pretty keen to put a a


00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:10.549
space station into orbit and


00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.310
a few others probably. There's plenty of


00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:15.110
people around with me bucks to do it.


00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:17.990
>> Yes, that's right. Um Yeah. And but you


00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.070
know, you might think have to think


00:29:20.080 --> 00:29:23.350
carefully about whether you uh take over


00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:29.269
the old the old tired and quite dodgy uh


00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:30.870
old international space station or


00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:32.630
whether you build something new. Mh.


00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.389
>> Um, and uh, of course, the technology


00:29:34.399 --> 00:29:36.950
has moved on enormously since the 1990s


00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.029
when when that was put together. It's


00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.350
been continuously continuously occupied


00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:45.669
since 2000. Uh, that's 26 years of uh,


00:29:45.679 --> 00:29:47.350
tenants coming and going. It's probably


00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:49.190
taken a fair beating inside.


00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.549
>> Yeah, I'm sure they've had a few


00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.389
parties. Yeah, no doubt about it.


00:29:54.399 --> 00:29:56.870
>> If you want to read all about China's


00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.990
plans, you can do that at space.com.


00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.590
Uh, this is Space Nuts with Andrew


00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:06.310
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:30:06.320 --> 00:30:10.230
Space Nuts. Our final story, Fred, takes


00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.549
us close to home. And, and this is


00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.870
really quite a fascinating story because


00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.310
it talks about a star, not our son,


00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:20.789
another star that got up close and


00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.510
personal with our um with our with our


00:30:23.520 --> 00:30:27.510
particular sun um a little while ago.


00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:29.909
But uh the the effects of that


00:30:29.919 --> 00:30:34.789
interaction uh seem to still exist which


00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:35.830
is very odd.


00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:38.389
>> Yeah. Well, that's right. Uh yes, it is.


00:30:38.399 --> 00:30:40.630
It's a interesting story. It covers, you


00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:42.630
know, two quite different bits of


00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:44.870
astronomy here that come together to to


00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.029
sort of work out what was going on. So,


00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.990
this star in question, it's got the


00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.029
glorious name of HD797.


00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.110
HD stands for Henry Draper. It's one of


00:30:55.120 --> 00:30:57.430
the early star cataloges uh from the


00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.549
19th century I think uh the Henry Draper


00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.230
catalog. Uh and it's a relatively near


00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.590
star similar to the sun. Uh it's


00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:08.950
currently in the constellation of


00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.830
Cassipia which is um one of my favorite


00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:13.510
northern constellations actually. It's


00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:15.750
one that we don't see from down here in


00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:21.430
Australia. Uh so um how do we know that


00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.590
HD797


00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:26.630
had um a near miss with our solar


00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.830
system? And the answer is with the GIA


00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:33.750
mission. So GIA is a spacecraft uh it


00:31:33.760 --> 00:31:39.269
sits at the um uh Sun Earth L2 point.


00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.750
That's the Lrange point on the opposite


00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:44.470
side of the Earth from the Sun. Um, it's


00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:46.950
been working for, I think, certainly


00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.509
more than a decade. And what it's done


00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.389
is measured star positions with


00:31:52.399 --> 00:31:55.110
absolutely exquisite precision. Uh,


00:31:55.120 --> 00:31:57.509
you're talking about, I think it's sort


00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:00.149
of some accuracies in the region of 100


00:32:00.159 --> 00:32:02.310
millionth of an arcsec. These are


00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:05.430
phenomenal accuracies. And an arcsec, of


00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.549
course, is 1 3,600th of a degree. Uh,


00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.029
the size of a, here in Australia, a $1


00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:13.269
coin held up at 5 kilometers. It's a


00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.549
tiny angle, but this thing's measuring


00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.470
millionth of that basically or 100


00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:21.430
millions. Uh and what that does is it


00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:23.029
allows you if you make these


00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:24.950
measurements at different times, it


00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.509
allows you to plot the motions of stars


00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.990
uh not just in our own galaxy and in our


00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.789
own neighborhood but also in the two


00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.070
melanic clouds, the uh the two nearest


00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:40.950
neighbor dwarf galaxies, the big ones,


00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:44.389
large and small melanic clouds, 165 and


00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:47.590
200,000 lighty years away respectively.


00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:50.070
uh those uh you can detect the motions


00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:52.870
of stars in those galaxies and even in


00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.029
the Andromeda galaxy about 2 and a half


00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:56.630
million lighty years away. You can see


00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.950
evidence of what we call lateral motion


00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:00.710
on the sky, the sideways motion of


00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.789
things. And if you can measure the


00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.029
radial velocity, that's the velocity


00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:06.389
along the line of sight, which is


00:33:06.399 --> 00:33:08.470
actually much easier if you can do that


00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.630
as well, you've got um the


00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.870
three-dimensional motion of objects in


00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:18.070
space. And that is how uh it's HD797


00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:20.710
was picked up as having passed close to


00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.909
the sun about 2 and a half million years


00:33:23.919 --> 00:33:24.950
ago


00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.549
>> as both these stars, the sun and HD797


00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.470
as they both orbit around the center of


00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.269
our galaxy. Uh we still don't know


00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.950
exactly how close. Uh the data from GIA


00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:41.269
suggests it was between 4,000 and 25,000


00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.509
astronomical units. And as we've


00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.029
mentioned before, an astronomical unit


00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.630
is the distance between the Earth and


00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.310
the Sun. Convenient measure. It is uh


00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:52.389
150 million kilometers.


00:33:52.399 --> 00:33:57.350
um they they may have um that we might


00:33:57.360 --> 00:33:59.669
be able to tie that uh close approach


00:33:59.679 --> 00:34:02.630
down though by other methods and the


00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.190
methods in question have been employed


00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:09.109
by uh some scientists at the University


00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.030
of Bordeaux. Uh and basically what they


00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:17.030
have done is looked not at GIA data to


00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:19.669
try and refine uh you know this this


00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.310
sort of look back in time as to when


00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.470
these two stars were close together.


00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.030
They've looked at long period comets.


00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:29.669
Comets that uh come in from the very


00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:31.430
furthest reaches of the solar system


00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.470
where we think there is a reservoir of


00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.510
comets. We call it the or cloud. uh and


00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:39.990
it turns out that if you look at long


00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.270
period comets uh which are have been


00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.190
measured you know over the past 100


00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:49.430
years I guess um then you get uh an an


00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.510
idea of the distribution of their orbits


00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:56.470
and the basically there's a quote here


00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.750
from one of the authors of the uh of the


00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.310
paper that we're talking about uh who


00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:04.230
says the distribution of comet orbits


00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:05.670
suggests we are living through an


00:35:05.680 --> 00:35:09.430
unusual time where HD797


00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.910
has dominated the generation of new


00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.790
comets and not the larger gravitational


00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:16.630
field of the Milky Way as it usually


00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:19.030
would. This would also mean we're living


00:35:19.040 --> 00:35:21.829
through the late stages of a pretty rare


00:35:21.839 --> 00:35:24.790
and powerful comet shower. And so what


00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.470
they've done is made computer


00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:30.870
simulations of uh how comet orbits might


00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.069
behave as a result of being tipped out


00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.390
of the or cloud by the passage of this


00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:38.790
star HD797.


00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.470
They've kicked out the or cloud and


00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:42.710
heading towards the sun. Uh they've


00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:45.589
measured the basically the details of


00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.069
112 long period comets. Actually,


00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:49.750
they've chosen ones that have only been


00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.630
observed in recent years since 1989


00:35:52.640 --> 00:35:55.349
because that's when we could detect


00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:58.069
comets coming from uh any part of the


00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.390
sky. Uh if you if you only limit


00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:02.069
yourself to one part of the sky, then


00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.230
you've got uh as visible, for example,


00:36:04.240 --> 00:36:06.950
by a single observatory uh or even as


00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.390
visible by the northern hemisphere


00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.510
observatories. You're missing uh half


00:36:11.520 --> 00:36:13.349
the objects that you want to see. And


00:36:13.359 --> 00:36:15.109
since what you're doing is looking at


00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.950
the statistical distribution of these


00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.750
things, you can't afford to um to


00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:21.910
eliminate things that way. It's what


00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.069
would be called a selection effect.


00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.470
>> Um so yes, these long period comets,


00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.349
they've got very elongated orbits. Uh


00:36:29.359 --> 00:36:31.030
and the suggestion is that the


00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:33.510
distribution of those orbits in relation


00:36:33.520 --> 00:36:37.190
to the direction that we know HD797


00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:38.710
went through the solar system or went


00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:41.430
close to the solar system. Uh that's why


00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:45.750
they believe uh that the two events uh


00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:49.589
the close passage of 797


00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.310
uh tipped up the comets and caused a lot


00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.510
more of these comets to come in. And if


00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:59.910
you accept their uh their um hypothesis,


00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:03.589
then what it does is ties down


00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.310
rather better the distance that we


00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.670
estimate HD797.


00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:12.870
uh approached the sun at somewhere


00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.430
between 6,000 and 10,000 astronomical


00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.829
units. A tighter window compared with


00:37:17.839 --> 00:37:20.470
the 4,000 to 25,000 astronomical units


00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.150
that Gia suggests.


00:37:22.160 --> 00:37:22.870
>> Yes.


00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.190
>> So, it's a it's a nice tightening up of


00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:27.510
our understanding of this uh


00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:30.069
hypothesized but probably real event 2


00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.829
and a half million years ago. And just


00:37:31.839 --> 00:37:33.670
to give people a bit of an idea of the


00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:35.910
distance, so somewhere between 6 and


00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:40.390
10,000 AU is is where HD797


00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:42.550
kind of grazed our solar system.


00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:43.190
>> Yes.


00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:46.870
>> Voyager 1 is 170 AU


00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:48.550
>> from Earth. So


00:37:48.560 --> 00:37:50.150
>> we're talking a fair way out.


00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:51.510
>> It's a long way off. That's right.


00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:53.430
>> Yeah. You're talking probably getting


00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.589
into the vicinity of the or cloud, which


00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.910
makes sense given what they're


00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.630
hypothesizing in this paper.


00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:03.109
Exactly right. So, a star passing nearby


00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:04.790
the or cloud would


00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.109
>> definitely upset it and send stuff in


00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.109
towards the inner solar system.


00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:09.510
>> Yes,


00:38:09.520 --> 00:38:12.390
>> it's actually um it's a theory that uh


00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.270
that general mechanism was proposed by


00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.790
colleagues of mine in the Royal


00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:18.230
Observatory in Edinburgh, Victor Club


00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:21.109
and Bill Napia back in the late 1970s.


00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.829
The idea that they were suggesting it


00:38:23.839 --> 00:38:26.150
might have needed a bit more mass than a


00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:29.270
single star to disturb the cloud. Uh and


00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.430
they suggested the passage nearby


00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:33.030
passage of something called a giant


00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:35.349
molecular cloud a kind of stellar


00:38:35.359 --> 00:38:37.270
birthplace if one of those goes past the


00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.430
solar system. They were inferring that


00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.190
it would disturb the or cloud to the


00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:43.430
extent that you would get bombardment of


00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.270
the inner solar system by comets and


00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.510
that might be visible in the geological


00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:49.109
record on earth. That was their


00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:51.589
basically their um uh their you know


00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.069
their their principal line of attack. Uh


00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:56.390
really very interesting science. Uh so


00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.589
this is not a new idea but this is new


00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.230
research that suggests that um perhaps


00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:04.550
we can learn more by pursuing it. But


00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:04.790
now


00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.910
>> indeed yes um the paper by the way has


00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:09.750
been accepted by the planetary science


00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.829
journal and is available at the moment


00:39:11.839 --> 00:39:14.950
on the archive preprint server. You can


00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.670
also read about it at fizz.org phys.org.


00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:21.510
Uh Fred, that brings us to the end of


00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:23.109
the show. Thank you so much.


00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.030
>> Well that went very quickly. Uh, what a


00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:26.310
good time we had.


00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:28.230
>> We did indeed. Yes. We'll catch you on


00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:28.870
the next one.


00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:30.790
>> Sounds great. Thank you very much.


00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.390
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.150
large. And don't forget between episodes


00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:35.750
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00:40:05.040 --> 00:40:07.430
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00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.829
to Hugh in the studio who couldn't be


00:40:09.839 --> 00:40:11.750
with us today because he saw a passing


00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.910
star and chased her down for an


00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.710
autograph. And from and from me, Andrew


00:40:16.720 --> 00:40:18.630
Dunley, thanks for your company. We'll


00:40:18.640 --> 00:40:20.150
see you on the next episode of Space


00:40:20.160 --> 00:40:22.710
Nuts. Bye-bye. Space Nuts.


00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:24.790
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