Stellar Microbes, Titan’s Mysteries & the Quest for Life Beyond Earth | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Kind: captions
Language: en

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All right, ladies and gentlemen, boys


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and girls, welcome to another fantastic


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episode of Space Nuts, the podcast that


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is out of this world. I am your host for


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this week, Heidi Compo, here back again


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with the the commentary and the jokes. I


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know I am not your beloved Andrew


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Dunley, but I promise I will continue to


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do my best. 15 seconds. Guidance is


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internal. 10 9 Ignition sequence start.


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Space Nuts. 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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Space Nuts. Astronauts report. It feels


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good.


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But hey, the best part of the show is


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right here with me, Professor Fred


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Watson, astronomer at large. How are you


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doing today, Fred? Uh, pretty well,


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thank you. It's a very bright morning


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here in Sydney and the sun is shining


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and we're it's a nice crisp autumn day


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if I can put it that way which I know


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makes no sense in the United States of


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America but it's an autumn day. That's


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okay. We've got So I'll give you our


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weather report over here from space city


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Houston, Texas. It's a beautiful spring


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um afternoon. It's uh late later in the


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day here. We have had a really fantastic


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week. The birds are chirping. The


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flowers are starting to bloom, but it's


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about to start really heating up. So, I


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think it's going to start creeping up to


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90. And it's not gonna it's not going to


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go down until


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uh few few months from now. So, we're


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going to have a nice hot summer as


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usual.


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What a surprise.


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Yeah. Yeah. So, here's a here's an


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interesting um thing that I learned


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recently from a friend of mine who's a


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flight surgeon. She um we were at a we


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were at a conference. We were actually


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at the spaceflight human optimization


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and performance summit at this time last


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year and I was sitting there freezing


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cold and I asked her I was like why is


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it always so cold when you go to


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conferences? Every conference I've ever


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been to is freezing cold. And she looks


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at me and goes oh well there's a reason


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for that. When they keep the conference


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rooms cold it helps pre prevent the


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spread of germs. And I was like really


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they do this on purpose? And I thought


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that was super interesting that there's


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a reason for it and they don't want to


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just make all the attendees miserable.


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It's all about, you know, preventing the


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spread of germs. Did you know that? No,


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I always thought I I agree with you. Um


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uh we were in a conference u a month ago


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uh in which the auditorium was cold and


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I was we were all sitting there well


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wrapped up. I just assumed it was so


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that the the um you know the delegates


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didn't fall asleep. Uh that's um why I


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thought it was cold so that you keep


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everybody awake miserable. But yeah,


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spread of germs sounds a lot more, you


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know, a lot more important in fact.


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Yeah. And speaking of germs, it's


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something to really consider when we're


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up in space. I mean, the astronauts have


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to go through vigorous health testing


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before they go up um on the shuttle and


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then when they are up on the space


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station, there needs to be a way to keep


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track of what hitchhikers, what little


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microbial hitchhikers went up with them.


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And that looks like something that China


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is really been working on lately with u


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it looks like the um microbial map is


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something that they've been coming up


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with.


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Yeah, I the reason I thought this story


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was interesting and you're you're quite


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right. This is the microbial profile of


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the Tiangong space station has been or


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is being mapped uh with uh with a


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program. I love the acronym. It's CHAMP


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is the acronym. It's the China Space


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Station Habitation Area Microbiome


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Program. Uh and that sounds very much


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like um an acronym that was chosen and


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then the word strain to fit into it.


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like most acronyms are. Um but the


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reason why I thought it was an


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interesting one is that we had a story


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uh it's probably about a month ago uh


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which was commenting on um the uh return


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of a one of the recent crews from the


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International Space Station and it was


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probably I don't know I think it was


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probably late last year who um fell


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mildly ill on their return to Earth and


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I can't remember which crew it was or


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what and I don't I think we ever found


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out what their what their illnesses were


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just as a you know it's a privacy thing.


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Um but uh the the comments that were


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coming after that from people who know a


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lot more about this sort of thing than I


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do uh was that um the international


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space station may be too sterile. It may


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be an environment that does not have uh


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its own sort of micro population. And


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there were suggestions being made like


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two or three dogs or cats up there might


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kind of help, you know, with with


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dsterilizing it a bit and make it an


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environment that is not uh detrimental


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to astronauts if everything's too


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sterile. Yes, you're not going to get


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infected with anything, but you might


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get ill when you get back down to Earth.


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And that was the the thing um you know


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that I thought well it's interesting


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that the other space station and there


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are only two at the moment uh the


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Tangong space station which uh has its


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own set of experiments and things of


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that sort u they basically um have this


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program that uh goes into uh the the


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genomics of the microbes that are that


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are there. They they've gone into great


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detail about the probably the microbial


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species. Uh they've investigated how


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well these microbial communities uh


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evolve, how how well they you know they


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they replicate and and and essentially


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how well they adapt to microgravity.


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Now, I'm sure there have been


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experiments like this on the ISS as well


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because one of the main thrusts, as you


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know, as a as a space medical person,


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uh, one of the main thrusts is is how uh


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how humans behave in the environment


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that we put them in on the space


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station. Uh, but we I I suspect we


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haven't heard quite as much about it as


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what we're hearing in this uh this


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research report that has come come out.


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Uh it is called uh the research report


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is an early microbial landscape


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inspiring endeavor from the China space


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station habitation area microbiome


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program or CHAMP uh and it comes from


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the the Shenzha space biotechnology


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group. So I it just struck me as being


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an interesting uh an interesting insight


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into how China is approaching this issue


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of microbes in space.


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And it really is so interesting to think


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of, you know, a space being too sterile.


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And I I always just think about, you


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know, like with our with our food and I


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think back to a conversation I had years


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ago. I was at the farmers market and I


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was purchasing I think it was just like


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uh lettuce or something from a farmer


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and there was a little bug on it and I


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was like, "Oo, a bug." And the farmer


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looked at me with the sweetest, kindest


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look and smile. He had it was he was one


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of these farmers who just like, you


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know, they're just a good good human.


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And he looks at me and he's like, you


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know, if there's a bug on it, that means


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it's probably good for you and it's not


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full of all that other bad stuff. And I


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was like, he's like, if the bugs want


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it, you know, he's like, your food is


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your, and he he went on to this whole


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spiel about your food is life. And our


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our gastrointestinal systems and our


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entire body and our own microbiomes that


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live on us is a very symbiotic


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relationship between us, our food, the


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environment around us. And if you


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sterilize everything from the food that


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the astronauts are eating and their


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spaces around them, you know, there's a


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very delicate balance of our microbiomes


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that that we need and live in and on and


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around us that potentially need to


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interact with the ecosystem outside of


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us as well that disappears when they are


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up in space for that long. Yeah. Um,


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quite remarkable. I mean, you you can


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understand why you would want a sterile


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environment in space just to try and


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keep people healthy, but if in doing


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that you're totally destroying this


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symbiosis that you've mentioned, um then


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people are going to get sick and that


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might be what has happened. You've I


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think you've talked to astronauts,


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Heidi, in the past. Has any of them


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commented on how they felt when they


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returned to Earth? Whether they did feel


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as though they had any deleterious


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effects in terms of their things like


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digestion and things of that sort. I


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guess uh I think the conversations I've


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had in either interviews or casual


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conversations is just really it's they


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give me kind of the HR answer because I


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don't so just to be clear I don't work


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at NASA and I don't I am still I'm still


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just a student working in exercise


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countermeasures in human space flight


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and optimization. So I'm not quite as


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deep in as I'd like to be yet. But from


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what I have heard, you know, at tertiary


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um level is they they do feel a little


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bit crummy when they come back and it


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takes a little while to adjust um sorry


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adjust to to being back here on Earth


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and some of that it's like you know


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think about like a sailor like it takes


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time like they get their sea legs on the


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ship and then when you get back you're


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like man it's like adjusting to any


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different ecosystem is going to kind of


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alter you a little bit but but Sunny


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she's doing great. she's back. Uh she's


00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.150
I guess she's doing her fitness classes


00:10:00.160 --> 00:10:02.550
again. She does CrossFit, which I don't


00:10:02.560 --> 00:10:04.949
know if I agree with, but that's a topic


00:10:04.959 --> 00:10:09.269
for another time. But um doing doing um


00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.070
the things that are part of your regular


00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:13.509
routine and getting you back to your


00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.710
regular routine should be the priority


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because that's where your body is going


00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:21.670
to be the happiest. And so if we can


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figure out a way


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to kind of create that environment up in


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space, even on a bacteria level, they're


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going to be so much better at adapting


00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.509
when they get back here instead of


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having that stark


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kind of shift.


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It's fascinating stuff and uh of great


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importance of course as we contemplate


00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.829
future very long space flights. uh if


00:10:50.839 --> 00:10:55.310
we embark on interplanetary travel.


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Absolutely. You know, one little um kind


00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.430
of a a sci-fi tidbit. So, for those of


00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.470
listeners who um plan on reading


00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:06.870
Hyperion and don't want it spoiled, you


00:11:06.880 --> 00:11:10.230
should fast forward 5 seconds. But there


00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.430
is a concept of a tree ship. So, they


00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.230
have um in the sci-fi book, they've


00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.910
grown a tree to be so large that it has


00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:22.470
its own atmosphere and ecosystem, and


00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.110
they um use it as a interstellar trip,


00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.590
interstellar ship. And then the real big


00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.069
um reveal later on in the last book,


00:11:32.079 --> 00:11:33.509
fast forward 5 seconds if you don't want


00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:35.670
it ruined, is they create a organic


00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:39.150
Dyson sphere out of trees, which is a


00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:41.910
very interesting concept that's very


00:11:41.920 --> 00:11:43.910
far-fetched, very sci-fi, but so


00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:45.829
interesting when we're thinking about


00:11:45.839 --> 00:11:48.230
organic matter in space. And who knows,


00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.389
you know, we might realize that um the


00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.910
author of Hyperion was on to


00:11:54.920 --> 00:11:58.710
something here also. space nuts. But


00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.790
life in space is something that we are


00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.870
always interested about and curious


00:12:02.880 --> 00:12:06.829
about. And it looks like there might be


00:12:06.839 --> 00:12:09.990
something on Titan.


00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:13.350
Yeah. Um Titan perhaps the most


00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.670
interesting world in the whole solar


00:12:15.680 --> 00:12:17.990
system after our own planet of course


00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.710
and with similarities to our own planet.


00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.430
Um very very briefly what we have with


00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.470
Titan, the the biggest moon of Saturn


00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.750
and actually second largest moon in the


00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:31.190
whole of the solar system bigger than


00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.590
the planet Mercury. An extraordinary


00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.230
world uh which um has a rocky core


00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:41.910
overlaying by a liquid ocean probably of


00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:44.470
brine or at least a very mineralrich


00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.910
water on which is a layer of ice which


00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:51.389
at the temperature of minus


00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.790
195° C. Uh I don't know what that is in


00:12:54.800 --> 00:12:57.030
Fahrenheit. It's very cold. At that


00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:59.910
temperature, the ice uh layer over the


00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:02.790
water behaves just like rock. Uh and so


00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:06.389
we have uh this curious aspect of


00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.430
depressions in that surface which have


00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.670
lakes in them but not of water. They're


00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:14.550
of liquid natural gas. Uh methane and


00:13:14.560 --> 00:13:16.550
ethane, a mixture. Uh and there is a


00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:18.389
weather cycle on the surface of Titan.


00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.750
Titan has a has a thick atmosphere and


00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:25.670
uh you know you get methane rain uh on


00:13:25.680 --> 00:13:29.269
Titan and uh phenomena related to the


00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.949
weather cycle on earth. Now the


00:13:32.959 --> 00:13:35.509
scientists who have engaged in the study


00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.829
that I wanted to mention uh who are from


00:13:39.839 --> 00:13:43.750
universities in the United States uh


00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:45.430
they are at the University of Arizona


00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.389
and also Harvard. uh they have been


00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.990
looking at the prospect of living


00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.150
organisms, water-based living organisms


00:13:54.160 --> 00:13:58.150
in the sub ice ocean. Uh and what


00:13:58.160 --> 00:14:02.509
they've done is they've looked at the


00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.430
transport of organic nutrients and we've


00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.710
just been talking about organic


00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.629
nutrients on the International Space


00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.350
Station. Um these are the chemicals the


00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:14.629
the prebiotic chemicals on which any


00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.269
living organisms might feed. the they've


00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.590
looked at the migration of that from the


00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.590
surface of Titan which we believe is


00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.590
very rich in these organics just because


00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.230
of the chemistry of the atmosphere


00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.910
itself. Uh how that might migrate


00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:30.550
through the ice layer which could be


00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:34.629
something like uh you know 450 or so 300


00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.069
miles 450 kilometers or so thick a very


00:14:38.079 --> 00:14:40.710
thick layer of ice. how that would


00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.629
perhaps um track down into the ocean to


00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.949
feed any microbial organisms that were


00:14:46.959 --> 00:14:49.509
present in the ocean underneath uh


00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.189
Titan's surface. And the conclusion they


00:14:52.199 --> 00:14:54.710
get, which is not that surprising when


00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.150
you think of 300 miles of ice to get


00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:01.110
through um is that not much comes down


00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.590
there. And so that if microbial life


00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.110
exists in the oceans of Titan, then it


00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.670
would be at very very low levels. They


00:15:09.680 --> 00:15:13.189
they talking about you know um I think


00:15:13.199 --> 00:15:15.509
they said one cell per cubic meter or


00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:16.949
something of that sort which means that


00:15:16.959 --> 00:15:19.189
when you add together all the ocean of


00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:21.910
Titan uh you've got enough microbes to


00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:25.110
make a dog uh or something of that sort.


00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:28.629
Not very many. Um, and so this is sort


00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.590
of depressing from the point of view of


00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.910
whether there is microbial life in the


00:15:33.920 --> 00:15:37.269
ocean of Titan. But what surprised me


00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:40.790
was that this article paid no heed and


00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:42.710
that's because this is not the research


00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:44.790
of the the people who are working on it.


00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:47.350
This is not their particular topic. But


00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.150
certainly um a few other um


00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:52.550
astrobiologists have looked at the


00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:56.470
prospect for life based not on water as


00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.189
all life on Earth is but on liquid


00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.269
natural gas the ethane and methane that


00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.910
makes up the lakes and seas of Titan on


00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:07.350
the surface. Uh and I know early on in


00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.829
the Cassini mission when Titan was first


00:16:09.839 --> 00:16:12.150
being explored with Cassini radar and


00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:13.910
the Huygens's lander which touched down


00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.389
on the surface of Titan. Uh when that


00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.189
mission was in progress, people were


00:16:18.199 --> 00:16:22.069
speculating about um um microbial


00:16:22.079 --> 00:16:25.590
creatures uh that use methane and ethane


00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.150
as their working fluid. Uh and there


00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:30.670
were some suggestions that they might


00:16:30.680 --> 00:16:34.389
breathe hydrogen which is there on Titan


00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.670
in Titan's atmosphere. uh and uh perhaps


00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:42.150
eat uh or feed on acetylene which is a


00:16:42.160 --> 00:16:44.749
complex organic molecule which is also


00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:47.670
plentiful around the surface of the the


00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:49.910
shores of the lakes of Titan. Uh so


00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:51.829
that's the perhaps the alternative view


00:16:51.839 --> 00:16:54.230
and it might be a wonky view. I'm not um


00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.710
as I I'm always at pains to point out a


00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.670
biologist of any kind um apart from


00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:02.949
being a self-taught one but uh the the


00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:06.789
um uh idea of a microbial or or or


00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.390
living organisms generally um which base


00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.390
their existence on a different fluid


00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.949
from water uh I think is a fascinating


00:17:14.959 --> 00:17:17.669
one and that's why the dragonfly mission


00:17:17.679 --> 00:17:20.309
which NASA is is planning to send to


00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:25.110
Titan uh a little um airborne vehicle um


00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:27.350
a bit like Ingenuity on Mars but a bit


00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:29.669
more complex and a bit cleverer. Uh


00:17:29.679 --> 00:17:31.830
that's why the Dragonfly mission is so


00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:33.270
interesting and which we're looking


00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:35.669
forward to so much.


00:17:35.679 --> 00:17:39.909
That is so cool. I uh I I I've never


00:17:39.919 --> 00:17:42.549
quite understood how I mean I guess it's


00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:44.630
just because the core is a little bit


00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.390
warmer because it's like how can liquid


00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.549
exist underneath the ice? That's always


00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.150
been kind of hard for me to wrap my head


00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.430
around. When I was um living in Iceland


00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.549
for a winter years years ago, um I went


00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.310
for a tour inside one of the glaciers


00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:01.710
and I learned that inside


00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.470
glaciers there are um ecosystems just


00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.310
like every other ecosystem. And I I was


00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:13.270
blown away because inside a glacier, you


00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:16.630
can have rivers of moving water and you


00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:21.350
can have lakes of liquid water inside of


00:18:21.360 --> 00:18:23.510
a glacier. And I just could not wrap my


00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:26.390
head around how water surrounded by ice


00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.510
doesn't freeze. And that was so


00:18:29.520 --> 00:18:31.590
fascinating to me to see that. They're


00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:33.190
like, "Yep, here's a lake inside of the


00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:34.870
glacier." And it looks like Titan has


00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.870
that same kind of deal. So, is there um


00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.710
do we know if there's any kind of


00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.270
geothermic activity happening? Maybe we


00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.590
could get some bacteria bubbling up from


00:18:47.600 --> 00:18:49.510
deep within.


00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:51.669
I think the um the thinking is very much


00:18:51.679 --> 00:18:55.190
that the answer to that is yes. Um so,


00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:01.029
what keeps um the rock of Titan warm is


00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.430
the tidal interactions with Saturn. So


00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.150
you've got this squeezing and squashing


00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.390
very very slight in the case of Titan


00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.630
because it's a big big world not


00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.390
anywhere near as big as Saturn of course


00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.750
but um and so that that um the tidal


00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:17.750
effect as we call them and it's tides


00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:21.029
not in oceans but in rock uh heats heats


00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.310
the uh heats the rocky core of Titan and


00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:26.230
to some extent that helps to keep the


00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:28.070
ocean liquid plus the pressure of the


00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:30.150
ice on top of it. So when you compress a


00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.830
liquid then you change the freezing


00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:34.150
point plus the fact that it's probably


00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.470
very very rich in minerals uh like


00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.310
perchlorates which drop the freezing


00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:42.230
point by many tens of degrees uh and so


00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.110
uh it's uh easy reasonably easy to


00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:47.909
understand uh why you might have a


00:19:47.919 --> 00:19:49.830
liquid ocean and it's not just Titan of


00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:51.270
course there are probably about half a


00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:52.950
dozen worlds out there that we think


00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.990
have this same this same structure uh on


00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.190
at least one of them and that's


00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:59.590
Enceladus another of Saturn's moons.


00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:01.190
There is evidence of hydrothermal


00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.230
activity because


00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.669
Cassini, one of the most wonderful space


00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:08.150
missions that was ever carried out.


00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.549
Cassini flew through the plumes of uh


00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.549
ice crystals that were being squirted


00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:16.150
out around Enceladus's south pole, these


00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.070
geysers of ice, which um did contain


00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:23.510
molecular hydrogen and that was seen as


00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:27.029
uh symptomatic of geothermal activity at


00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:31.190
the base of the ocean there. So, um you


00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.789
know that that you're probably right.


00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.470
And as soon as you've got hydrothermal


00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.630
vents, we start thinking, oh yes, living


00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.110
organisms and things being formed using


00:20:39.120 --> 00:20:40.950
the energy of just the hydrothermal


00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.190
energy itself to to form life. And I


00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:45.510
suspect that's where these scientists


00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:46.870
who've done this particular research


00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.390
that we're talking about are coming from


00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.230
the fact that we probably do have this


00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.230
geothermal activity. Therefore, we


00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.070
probably do perhaps do have living


00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:58.070
organisms deep in the ocean of Titan.


00:20:58.080 --> 00:20:59.990
But the downside is you're not going to


00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.230
get the nutrients coming down from the


00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.270
surface uh through that thick uh layer


00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:08.149
of ice on top. It's it's remarkable


00:21:08.159 --> 00:21:12.070
stuff. I um I find uh you know the


00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:14.230
myself being excited about the


00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:15.909
possibility of future missions to these


00:21:15.919 --> 00:21:17.270
worlds where we really do start


00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:18.870
tinkering around and finding out what


00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.270
there is in the oceans underneath. Uh


00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:22.870
but they might be quite a long way in


00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:25.190
the future. Yeah. about how these things


00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.029
could be so similar or maybe so


00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.830
different from from life on Earth. Um,


00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:31.669
isn't there a theory? Are you familiar


00:21:31.679 --> 00:21:33.590
with the tardigrade?


00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:36.149
Of course. Yes. Yeah. So, you've you've


00:21:36.159 --> 00:21:38.149
heard that there's like some some people


00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:39.669
speculate, and I could be totally wrong,


00:21:39.679 --> 00:21:41.270
some people speculate that the tardy


00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:44.950
grade is not from Earth.


00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.510
I like that idea. Um, and they think


00:21:47.520 --> 00:21:48.870
probably think that because the


00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.230
tardigrade uh has survived rather well


00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:54.070
or some of them on the outside of the


00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:55.669
International Space Station. They they


00:21:55.679 --> 00:21:57.830
they turn into there's a name for it. Is


00:21:57.840 --> 00:21:59.909
it a ton tun? They turn into a


00:21:59.919 --> 00:22:02.549
dehydrated ball when they're in an


00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.549
environment that's not their normal


00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:05.990
environment. They get rid of all the


00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.510
water uh and turn into this little solid


00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:12.310
ball of stuff uh which is still alive


00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:14.470
but isn't really doing anything. um you


00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.710
know all the all the um the the the


00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.870
the biology that keeps us alive is is on


00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:25.990
pause. Uh and so that uh is probably why


00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:27.510
people think that they might come from


00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:29.510
other worlds. I find that very hard to


00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:31.110
believe. I think they've probably got a


00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:35.029
fairly well sequenced genome uh here on


00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:36.789
in a terrestrial environment. But they


00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:39.430
are remarkable creatures. Oh, they're so


00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.510
cute. And they're very cute. Yeah. And


00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:42.950
half a millimeter long. They're called


00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.870
water bears. You don't have to run away


00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:47.350
from them because they're half a


00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:49.830
millimeter. Um, yeah, they are the


00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:52.549
poster poster child of the astrobiology


00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.630
world.


00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.350
You know what would be really crazy to


00:22:57.360 --> 00:23:01.110
think about is hundreds maybe thousands


00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:04.230
of years from now when we finally do


00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.630
figure out what's in a black hole. And


00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.830
what if we found a tardy grade in there?


00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:11.590
It might be a stretched out tardy


00:23:11.600 --> 00:23:13.830
grading. gets spaghettified when it gets


00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:15.990
near the black hole. But look, tardy


00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.270
grades can turn up in the most unusual


00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:21.470
places. So you could be right and


00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.789
yes, go ahead, Heidi. Sorry. No, that's


00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:27.029
just a maybe maybe something to think


00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:29.430
of. That's a what's inside a black hole?


00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.590
We always we always that is the that is


00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:33.430
the most popular topic here on Space


00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.909
Nuts is black holes and the the real


00:23:35.919 --> 00:23:39.350
fringe of a um astronomy, science, and


00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:41.669
cosmology. But, you know, sometimes it's


00:23:41.679 --> 00:23:43.510
funny to think, you know, a black hole,


00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:44.950
you know, it's not a wormhole to another


00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.029
dimension. Maybe it's just a it's a


00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.870
little playground for tardy grates.


00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:50.149
Yeah. It could even be a tardy great


00:23:50.159 --> 00:23:51.909
hole to another dimension. You never


00:23:51.919 --> 00:23:53.190
know. That might be where they came


00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.990
from. Yeah. Maybe the tardy grades are


00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.350
the ones running the whole show. We


00:23:57.360 --> 00:24:01.029
should Yeah.


00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.110
Okay. We checked all four systems and


00:24:03.120 --> 00:24:05.909
being with the girls. Space nets. So, so


00:24:05.919 --> 00:24:08.070
while we're talking about black holes,




00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:11.350
well, it just happens to have come up in


00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:14.630
the conversation, uh there's uh there is


00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:18.230
some new work that uh we think sheds


00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.149
light on one of the big mysteries about


00:24:20.159 --> 00:24:22.950
black holes. Um and that is that they


00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.390
seem to come only in two


00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.230
sizes, very big and very small. Well,


00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.029
not really that small. Uh let me clarify


00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.990
that. Um, so we've got uh what what we


00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.390
call stellar mass black holes about the


00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:38.710
mass of a star. In fact, it's they're


00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.510
more than the mass of a star because a


00:24:40.520 --> 00:24:43.110
single star like the sun is not massive


00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:44.870
enough to turn into a black hole. But


00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.230
there are stars which are much more


00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.310
massive than that. Uh and at the end of


00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:50.470
their lives they the the core of the


00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.710
star collapses to form a black hole. And


00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.789
we call those stellar mass black holes.


00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:57.990
Their masses are typically 10 to 20


00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.470
times the mass of the sun. Uh and then


00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.230
at the other extreme we've got these


00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.390
super massive black holes which we think


00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:09.350
populate uh the center of all galaxies.


00:25:09.360 --> 00:25:11.350
We think there's a super massive black


00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:13.830
hole in the middle of every galaxy. Uh


00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:16.549
that's a relatively new deduction


00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:18.870
perhaps only in the last 10 15 years or


00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.350
so. Um including our own galaxy which


00:25:21.360 --> 00:25:23.990
has a black hole with a a mass of about


00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.110
four million times the mass of the sun


00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:29.510
uh sitting 25,000 lighty years away as


00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:31.750
the crow flies in the constellation of


00:25:31.760 --> 00:25:34.950
Sagittarius. So uh super massive black


00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.310
holes can extend in mass up to not just


00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:40.310
millions but billions of times the mass


00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.630
of the sun and we know of many examples


00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.669
of that. But the the the conundrum is


00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:48.149
that there's nothing in between. Uh


00:25:48.159 --> 00:25:49.750
you've got the small ones and the big


00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:52.070
ones. Uh but you know where are the ones


00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:55.269
that that have 10,000 times the mass of


00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.190
the sun or something like that. And we


00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.430
call these objects intermediate mass


00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:01.830
black holes. they should exist because


00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:04.230
big ones and small ones exist. And so


00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.590
the the issue has been very much in


00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:10.549
trying to find them. Where can we find


00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.750
uh these intermediate mass black holes?


00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:16.830
And the uh


00:26:16.840 --> 00:26:20.470
the thrust of people's research has been


00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.990
to look at the globular clusters. Uh


00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.149
globular clusters are are clusters of


00:26:26.159 --> 00:26:28.230
stars. They're sort of globular or more


00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.430
or less spherical in in appearance. Uh


00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.149
very dense clusters tightly packed


00:26:34.159 --> 00:26:36.710
together. The best examples of them, I'm


00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.149
sorry to have to say this, Heidi, but


00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:40.630
they are in the southern hemisphere sky.


00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.590
Uh Omega Centuri and 47 Takani, they are


00:26:43.600 --> 00:26:45.830
brilliant uh globular clusters, even


00:26:45.840 --> 00:26:47.909
when seen through binoculars, believe it


00:26:47.919 --> 00:26:49.830
or not. Um you don't need a big


00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:51.190
telescope to see that there's something


00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.750
quite different. Uh but they these


00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:57.269
objects consist of perhaps uh hundreds


00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.390
of thousands to millions of stars uh in


00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:04.070
a relatively small volume. Uh and


00:27:04.080 --> 00:27:06.230
because the stars are relatively tightly


00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.029
packed in a globular


00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.990
cluster, the uh insights have been that


00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.750
if you're going to find intermediate


00:27:13.760 --> 00:27:15.750
black holes, that might be the kind of


00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:17.990
place to look because in a sense a


00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:19.990
globular cluster is like a sort of mini


00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.870
galaxy, although it's part of our own


00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:24.230
the ones we're looking at are part of


00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:26.310
our own Milky Way galaxy, but they've


00:27:26.320 --> 00:27:28.710
got characteristics that are almost as


00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:30.710
though they were the nucleus of a galaxy


00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.390
whose outer stars have been stripped


00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.909
away. something of that sort. We don't


00:27:33.919 --> 00:27:35.750
know that that's necessarily their


00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:38.789
origin, but um because people think that


00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.269
these super massive black holes grow


00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.630
over time, maybe the globular clusters


00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.950
uh would let you see a sort of


00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.070
freeze-dried version of a galaxy uh


00:27:50.080 --> 00:27:51.990
whose evolution has stopped. And so


00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.750
you've got a black hole that's only


00:27:53.760 --> 00:27:57.110
grown to something like hundreds um you


00:27:57.120 --> 00:27:58.630
know, hundreds of thousands, tens of


00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.750
thousands of times the mass of the sun.


00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:04.310
And so cut to the chase. I'm sorry


00:28:04.320 --> 00:28:06.630
that's a rather long preamble, but you


00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.190
did ask me about black


00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.990
holes. Uh the um and and so the new


00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.750
research that we're talking about, once


00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:15.830
again, it's this is clearly a Chinese


00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:18.630
episode of of space nuts because they


00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.669
come from Chinese researchers using uh


00:28:21.679 --> 00:28:23.909
telescopes uh one of which I had quite a


00:28:23.919 --> 00:28:25.269
bit to do with a telescope called


00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.149
Lamost, which is the Chinese large uh


00:28:28.159 --> 00:28:30.070
aperture multiobject spectroscopic


00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:31.510
telescope. That's what Lamst is an


00:28:31.520 --> 00:28:34.070
acronym for. I sat on two committees


00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:37.750
during the early 2000s. Uh were you were


00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:40.470
you in China? I was. Yes. Um it was I


00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.149
was a guest of the Chinese Academy of


00:28:42.159 --> 00:28:45.750
Sciences to help them decide uh you know


00:28:45.760 --> 00:28:47.430
what how this telescope should be built


00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:48.789
and and what they should do with it.


00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.710
It's a very interesting experience. How


00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:52.789
long were you there for? It was a matter


00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.310
of a couple of weeks each time. It


00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:56.950
wasn't a long stay, but it was certainly


00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.590
very illuminating. I learned a lot and


00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:02.070
uh met some fantastic uh Chinese


00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:04.950
astrophysicists and colleagues. All of a


00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.110
great time actually was very very


00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:09.590
enjoyable. But uh to cut to the chase,


00:29:09.600 --> 00:29:12.149
other instruments have been used uh by


00:29:12.159 --> 00:29:15.350
these Chinese astronomers. Um Chinese


00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:16.870
Academy of Sciences is the main


00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.870
institution where they're involved. And


00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.870
what they've done is they've looked for


00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.669
stars associated with a globular cluster


00:29:25.679 --> 00:29:29.110
that have very high velocities. Uh, and


00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:31.430
they found some. And the reason they're


00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.990
doing that is that you can envisage that


00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.990
in the nucleus of a globular cluster in


00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.669
the heart of this really densely


00:29:37.679 --> 00:29:40.870
populated region of space, if you did


00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.669
have a black hole at the middle of it,


00:29:43.679 --> 00:29:47.350
um what you might find is stars that uh


00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:49.110
have close encounters with that black


00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:51.750
hole. Now, if these stars are binary


00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:54.630
systems, that's to say they're in pairs.


00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.350
And actually, most stars in the That's


00:29:57.360 --> 00:29:59.029
not quite true. About half the stars in


00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.750
our galaxy are in pairs. They're members


00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:03.830
of binary systems. If you had a


00:30:03.840 --> 00:30:05.909
situation like that and a binary pair


00:30:05.919 --> 00:30:08.070
goes near an intermediate black hole


00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:09.909
near the center of one of these globular


00:30:09.919 --> 00:30:12.870
clusters, what happens to it? Uh it gets


00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.029
ripped apart in the sense that one star


00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.190
gets sucked into the black hole and the


00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.430
other is given an enormous boost in


00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.909
velocity that essentially projected out


00:30:21.919 --> 00:30:23.990
of the globular cluster. And so they


00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.750
found a number of stars with very high


00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:27.669
velocities, including one with a


00:30:27.679 --> 00:30:30.789
velocity of 550 kilometers/s,


00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:32.870
uh, which is an extraordinary high speed


00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.950
for a star that's not just leaving the


00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:36.389
globular cluster, it's leaving our


00:30:36.399 --> 00:30:38.149
entire galaxy. It's fast enough to leave


00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:41.310
the galaxy. And so, um, what they're


00:30:41.320 --> 00:30:44.630
speculating is that that is evidence of


00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:46.549
that and other observations that they've


00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.630
made is evidence of there being an


00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.870
intermediate black hole at the center of


00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.789
the globular cluster. And the reasoning


00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.789
just to prolong this a little bit


00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:58.070
longer. The reasoning is that in order


00:30:58.080 --> 00:31:00.870
for this uh in order to find a star


00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:02.870
leaving at such high velocity, it must


00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.590
have gone through this process of of


00:31:05.600 --> 00:31:07.430
being part of a binary system and one


00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.870
half of the binary is pulled in, the


00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.870
other gets thrown out. Um but in order


00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:18.389
to do that uh you need a a large mass in


00:31:18.399 --> 00:31:21.510
a very small space. So you can rule out


00:31:21.520 --> 00:31:24.310
uh a a dense cluster of stars right at


00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:26.070
the middle doing the same gravitational


00:31:26.080 --> 00:31:27.750
trick. That wouldn't work because the


00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:31.750
cluster would be too big uh in in in


00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:35.430
volume. Uh and so what it can only be a


00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.870
black hole. Moreover, uh the fact that


00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.669
it is not showing itself in any other


00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:43.750
way. It's not gobbling up stuff and


00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.990
release and releasing x-rays all the


00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.149
time like the super massive black holes


00:31:48.159 --> 00:31:51.029
do. uh therefore it must be something of


00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:52.710
a smaller mass than a super massive


00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.789
black hole. And I think the these


00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.430
scientists have basically uh put a


00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.630
figure on the uh size of the black hole


00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:03.350
that they think is at the center of this


00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:05.430
globular cluster and I can't remember


00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.350
how big it is. It's a few tens of


00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:09.590
thousands of solar masses and they've


00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:11.430
done that by looking at the dynamics of


00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.070
this star that's been ejected. really


00:32:14.080 --> 00:32:16.470
interesting piece of work and perhaps


00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:18.950
not definitive proof because we haven't


00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.870
seen it yet, but really good evidence


00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.029
for the existence of intermediate black


00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.149
intermediate mass black holes. Wow,


00:32:26.159 --> 00:32:28.950
that's that's amazing. I I want to


00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.310
circle back to one thing you said. You


00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:32.230
said it's ejected at moving at what do


00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:33.310
you say


00:32:33.320 --> 00:32:36.630
550 kilometers per second per second.


00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.389
What's what's the average speed of a


00:32:38.399 --> 00:32:40.710
star for me to have that reference


00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.909
point? Yes. So um uh that's that's


00:32:43.919 --> 00:32:49.430
right. So uh it's um our motion through


00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.509
the galaxy


00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.230
uh the star the sun's motion is in the


00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.110
region of 200 kilometers per second. Oh


00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:59.990
okay. So so more than double. Yeah


00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.830
that's right. So this is what a star


00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.230
would have if it's circulating in a kind


00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.470
of well- behaved fashion as our sun is


00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.269
doing thankfully uh in a well- behaved


00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.509
fashion around the center of our galaxy.


00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.509
Uh that would be a typical speed couple


00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.149
of hundred kilometers/s. So something at


00:33:16.159 --> 00:33:19.350
that 550 kilometers/s is definitely


00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:22.149
leaving the galaxy. Uh another project


00:33:22.159 --> 00:33:24.230
that I was involved with some years ago


00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:26.149
is a project with a delightful name of


00:33:26.159 --> 00:33:28.549
rave. Rave was the radial velocity


00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.310
experiment. we could meant we could


00:33:30.320 --> 00:33:32.549
write papers with titles like rave on


00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.430
and um you know raving mad all of that.


00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:39.509
Anyway, uh we the rave uh survey was a


00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.549
survey of the speeds of u roughly half a


00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.870
million stars in the sun's environment


00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:48.630
and we did find outliers within that uh


00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.350
cohort of stars. I think the fastest we


00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:52.830
found was 400


00:33:52.840 --> 00:33:55.590
kilometers/s and we interpreted that as


00:33:55.600 --> 00:33:57.350
stars that had interacted actually with


00:33:57.360 --> 00:33:58.789
the black hole at the center of our


00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.950
galaxy uh because that was where they


00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:02.630
were coming from not to do with a


00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.029
globular cluster but yeah I was a


00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.789
project manager for RA it was very


00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.950
interesting very interesting project


00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.750
slingshot slingshot out that's right it


00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.510
really is amazing I mean you know


00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:15.430
thinking today we we talked about the


00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:17.270
tiniest little things little microbes


00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.349
and then the biggest things these whole


00:34:19.359 --> 00:34:22.790
big giant interacting and that's that's


00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.109
just one of the fun delightful parts of


00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:27.990
space is it's there's a I think this is


00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.069
a tagline somewhere some someone's using


00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.389
this or space for everyone everybody's


00:34:32.399 --> 00:34:35.990
interests align in space and whether you


00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.230
are a biologist an astronomer


00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:41.190
cosmologist you know a human


00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:44.069
physiologist um you know there's there's


00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:46.389
a job for you you know everybody can


00:34:46.399 --> 00:34:49.270
find a place working in this industry I


00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.389
even saw um something that NASA had put


00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:54.149
out that they have someone working there


00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:55.909
who's a seamstress. It's like well, you


00:34:55.919 --> 00:34:58.230
know, we still need a seamstress to put


00:34:58.240 --> 00:35:01.270
these these sales together, the suits


00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.390
and the sales. Um anytime there's


00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:06.790
anytime there's textiles involved, so


00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.990
you know, not everything at NASA and


00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.950
space is STEM specific. I mean, it's


00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.109
obviously heavily STEM, but I just want


00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:18.230
to remind everyone that if you have


00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:20.150
interests in these things and you have


00:35:20.160 --> 00:35:23.589
skills, then you probably can find a


00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:26.390
place where you fit in. So, I think on


00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.670
that happy note, Fred, is there anything


00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:31.510
you would like to add to today's


00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:33.510
conversation? No, I don't I think we've


00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:36.390
covered pretty well everything. I I I


00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:37.589
think what you've just said is


00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.589
absolutely right. When people ask me how


00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.990
they get into astronomy and space, you


00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.310
know, I tell them the same thing. It's


00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.109
STEMheavy, but but really there are


00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.430
openings uh in the world of astronomy as


00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.190
well. Not sure about seamstresses,


00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:52.950
although big telescopes occasionally


00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.230
need fabric covers and things of that


00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:59.109
sort. I'm sorry. Seamstress is very


00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:01.030
gender specific, isn't it? Is there a


00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:02.950
word for


00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.109
I I don't know actually. I've never


00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:08.150
thought of that. It's um I guess you


00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:09.349
know that is the funny thing about


00:36:09.359 --> 00:36:13.030
language is is uh I heard somebody the


00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:16.069
other day refer to the moon as he and I


00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.150
was like wait a second that's wrong.


00:36:18.160 --> 00:36:20.470
Everybody always refers to the moon in


00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.069
the feminine and the sun in the


00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.750
masculine and it's like there's no rule


00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.750
that says you have to do it that way but


00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.069
that's just the way that mythology has


00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.710
evolved around these celestial bodies.


00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:33.349
Let me surprise you. Um, Aboriginal


00:36:33.359 --> 00:36:35.829
culture here in Australia has a male


00:36:35.839 --> 00:36:37.430
moon.


00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.470
Really?


00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.990
Yeah, it does. It's the other way


00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.069
around. That could be a tangent for


00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.829
another episode then. Yeah, there's a


00:36:45.839 --> 00:36:49.109
lot to to unpick in that actually.


00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.829
Yeah, there's a lot of interesting um if


00:36:51.839 --> 00:36:53.750
you look at etmology and how that's


00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.109
played in. See, there you go. If you're


00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.150
an etmologist or a linguist, you there's


00:36:58.160 --> 00:37:00.630
a there's a job for you, too. All right,


00:37:00.640 --> 00:37:02.870
Fred. Well, it has been a delight and a


00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:06.150
wonder and this is Heidi Compost signing


00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:08.390
off. I hope you all have a wonderful


00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.150
rest of your day and thank you for


00:37:10.160 --> 00:37:13.109
listening to Space Nuts. Space Nuts.


00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.190
You've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:17.510
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00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:20.470
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00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.109
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00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:25.510
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