SpaceX Tests Space-Ready Nuclear Power Using Tritium-Driven CubeSat | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en

00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.990
Hi there. Thanks again for joining us.


00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.950
This is Space Nuts. My name is Andrew


00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:06.789
Dunley and every week we talk astronomy


00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.990
and space science and we answer audience


00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.790
questions in our alternative show which


00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.910
happens um well wherever you are. I mean


00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:17.670
we release it on a Monday, but that


00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:18.950
doesn't mean you listen to it on a


00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.630
Monday. Uh coming up today, we've got a


00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:26.310
couple of nuclear explosive stories. Uh


00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.109
SpaceX is involved in one of those and


00:00:29.119 --> 00:00:31.429
the other story is about uh blowing


00:00:31.439 --> 00:00:33.510
things up with atomic weapons from


00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.790
space. Yes, highly guaranteed, very very


00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:39.190
uh effective as well. Uh but I think


00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.590
there's probably a reason not to. We'll


00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:43.830
look at all of that. Uh we're also going


00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.310
to talk about where Earth's dust came


00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:47.990
from. Quite a bit of it, which might


00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.910
come as a bit of a surprise. Uh you just


00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.069
have to look under just about every bed


00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:53.750
and kitchen table in the world to find


00:00:53.760 --> 00:00:55.670
it. as much dust as there is in the


00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:58.229
world. But we'll see where that uh is


00:00:58.239 --> 00:01:01.270
headed. And our galaxy uh reaches out


00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.510
further than we thought apparently. Uh


00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:04.950
there's some interesting science behind


00:01:04.960 --> 00:01:07.270
that. We'll talk about it all on this


00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.270
edition of Space Nuts.


00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:14.070
>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:15.830
Ignition sequence start.


00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:16.789
>> Space Nuts.


00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:21.670
>> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1


00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.310
>> Space Nuts. Astronauts report. It feels


00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:25.350
good.


00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:27.590
>> And joining us again to talk about all


00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:29.830
of that and more is Professor Fred


00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:31.590
Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,


00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:32.390
Fred.


00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.630
>> Hello, Andrew. Good to see you. Good to


00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.590
see you today. Yes. We sort of missed a


00:01:37.600 --> 00:01:38.950
few days, haven't we?


00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.390
>> Yes. You've been you've been off uh


00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:42.069
you've been off conferencing.


00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.030
>> Yes. So, the annual science meeting as


00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.190
it's called of the National Astronomy


00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:48.950
Society, the Astronomical Society of


00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:50.469
Australia. It's where all the


00:01:50.479 --> 00:01:52.389
professional astronomers get together


00:01:52.399 --> 00:01:53.910
and uh talk about what they've been


00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.870
doing, their research. Uh it was a big


00:01:56.880 --> 00:01:59.990
meeting. There were I would have guessed


00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.749
maybe a couple of hundred people there


00:02:01.759 --> 00:02:03.749
altogether. Uh that's quite big for


00:02:03.759 --> 00:02:05.670
astronomers and in a country that's only


00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.590
got 700 astronomers in it.


00:02:07.600 --> 00:02:08.070
>> Yeah.


00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:11.350
>> Uh but um what was interesting and what


00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.550
was very I think heartening for me was


00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.110
the number of youngsters that were


00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:18.790
there. I call them you because you know


00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.030
people under 50


00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:23.270
people um the the new generation of


00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.910
astronomers uh most of them whom I


00:02:25.920 --> 00:02:27.670
didn't know and they have no idea who I


00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.949
am and that's fine uh that all was okay.


00:02:30.959 --> 00:02:33.030
It just contrasts with a few years ago.


00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:34.470
So when I was the astronomer in charge


00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:37.350
of the of the observatory at Kuna


00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.830
Barabbran uh we were kind of the


00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.830
shopkeepers. So all these astronomers


00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:43.910
used to come through stay in the lodge


00:02:43.920 --> 00:02:45.350
and do their research using the


00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.990
telescope. So I knew a a large fraction


00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.070
of the astronomical population of


00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.949
Australia, but that's changed uh because


00:02:52.959 --> 00:02:56.550
my job that job is no longer mine. Uh


00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:58.790
and so I don't see people the same way.


00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.550
But uh it was so it was very nice to


00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.869
meet a lot of new faces and catch up


00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:04.949
with some very old faces as well, some


00:03:04.959 --> 00:03:07.670
even older than mine. Um and we also


00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.790
discussed matters such as the future of


00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.750
Australian astronomy because that's uh


00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:16.550
in a interesting state at the moment


00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:19.910
with the government having declined uh


00:03:19.920 --> 00:03:22.790
to uh engage in membership with the


00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:24.470
European Southern Observatory. We are


00:03:24.480 --> 00:03:27.750
now working on plan B uh and uh well it


00:03:27.760 --> 00:03:28.710
looks promising.


00:03:28.720 --> 00:03:30.710
>> Yes, fingers crossed. Uh there's a lot


00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:34.630
going on. Okay. Um, we should probably


00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:36.470
get stuck into these stories cuz there's


00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:38.550
a lot to discuss. The first story is a


00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:41.509
double banger about um nuclear energy


00:03:41.519 --> 00:03:44.390
and atomic weapons. Uh, we'll start off


00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:48.309
with the story about Space X and they're


00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.270
um they're looking at nuclear power in


00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.589
space, nuclearpowered satellites. What's


00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:56.309
the story here? It's a test launch


00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:00.949
really a launch of a a a cubat basically


00:04:00.959 --> 00:04:03.670
that um has not a nuclear reactor inside


00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.110
but a um basically a capsule of


00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.550
something called tritium which is


00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:10.070
sometimes called heavy hydrogen. It's


00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:13.030
hydrogen with two neutrons in it as well


00:04:13.040 --> 00:04:16.229
as the proton at its center and it's


00:04:16.239 --> 00:04:19.349
radioactive. Uh tritium is um I I


00:04:19.359 --> 00:04:20.469
suppose you'd call it mildly


00:04:20.479 --> 00:04:24.230
radioactive. Um, we used to use tritium


00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:26.390
standard lamps uh at the observatory


00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:28.790
when I was working there, which was a


00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:30.469
little capsule of tritium with some


00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:34.390
phosphor on it. Um, and the the um


00:04:34.400 --> 00:04:36.150
basically the electrons released by the


00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.270
tritium lit up the phosphor and and gave


00:04:39.280 --> 00:04:41.430
a very constant glow so we could use it


00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:44.150
to calibrate other other instruments.


00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.189
So, I've been close up and personal with


00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.830
um a little nuclear power source a bit


00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:51.510
like that, but it was just making faint


00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.950
light. This one is one that's been uh


00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:58.469
developed by a private company um and


00:04:58.479 --> 00:05:01.670
it's uh basically a company called City


00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.870
Labs uh in the United States. uh they've


00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:08.469
built um a little as I said it's


00:05:08.479 --> 00:05:11.590
effectively a cubat which has this um


00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:13.749
little nuclear


00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.590
not nuclear reactor but nuclear power


00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.790
source inside a tritium uh source that


00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:20.710
I've just been talking about which


00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:22.950
doesn't actually convert the electrons


00:05:22.960 --> 00:05:26.230
into light it converts them directly


00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.270
into electricity so they've got these


00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:31.110
panels on the side of it that take the


00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:33.270
electrons that come from the tritium and


00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:34.070
turn


00:05:34.080 --> 00:05:38.150
straight into um into electricity. It's


00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.670
called bore bhr. Uh which is a bit of a


00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.590
play on words because Neils Boore was


00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.110
one of the great founders of quantum


00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:49.590
theory. Uh same spelling um Danish one


00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.469
uh a Danish uh scientist uh and it


00:05:52.479 --> 00:05:56.390
stands for beta voltaic and a beta


00:05:56.400 --> 00:05:58.950
voltaque is taking the beta particles


00:05:58.960 --> 00:06:01.350
which are otherwise known as electrons


00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.189
uh turning them into electricity. So


00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:05.670
it's beta voltake orbital high


00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:07.670
reliability spacecraft. That's where you


00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.830
get the BR from.


00:06:09.840 --> 00:06:12.150
>> Uh and it's been it's been launched. So


00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:14.230
SpaceX's part in this story is just to


00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:17.270
provide the taxi uh up into um up into


00:06:17.280 --> 00:06:20.390
orbit. It's a trans transporter mission.


00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:23.110
One of um one of basically one of


00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.749
SpaceX's taxi rides to get stuff up and


00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.350
down from up to orbit. Coming down is a


00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.350
different story. Most of them just burn


00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.029
up. Uh yes, but it is uh probably the


00:06:35.039 --> 00:06:38.550
first cubat to include a nuclear power


00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.469
system. Uh and maybe just maybe will


00:06:42.479 --> 00:06:44.629
sort of illuminate the way for a new


00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.350
generation of uh of spacecraft which are


00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.590
equipped with uh with these nuclear


00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.830
power sources. I suppose they have to


00:06:51.840 --> 00:06:54.150
look at alternatives because we we've


00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:57.430
been reliant fairly reliant anyway on


00:06:57.440 --> 00:07:00.710
solar energy in space um particularly


00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.950
with our orbiting satellites but also


00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:05.990
with um the international space station


00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.270
and others u but the the time will come


00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:12.629
where we are in places where there won't


00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.710
be that much


00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:17.110
>> sunlight and in some places there won't


00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.670
be any at all and you know solar panels


00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:21.749
are going to be useless. Uh that's


00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:23.990
correct. And and we've seen already the


00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.830
um the use of these uh RTGs, radio


00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:30.550
isotope thermmoelectric generators,


00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.230
>> uh which are carried by both the


00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.950
Curiosity and the uh Perseverance rovers


00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:39.589
uh as well as spacecraft in deep space


00:07:39.599 --> 00:07:42.870
like uh Voyager One, Voyager 2,


00:07:42.880 --> 00:07:44.469
Pioneers, I think they've got them as


00:07:44.479 --> 00:07:46.390
well. And these are spacecraft that are


00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:48.790
so far from the sun that you get very


00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.430
little light from the sun uh in terms of


00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:52.870
um you know using it to generate


00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:54.790
electricity. So they've they've had


00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:56.629
their nuclear power sources for a long


00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:58.390
time. They are quite different though


00:07:58.400 --> 00:07:59.670
from what we're talking about here.


00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.230
There are I think it's 13 kg if I


00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.830
remember rightly is the amount in a


00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:07.270
canister of plutonium dioxide


00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:09.749
>> which is decaying all the time and


00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:11.749
getting very hot as it does that. And


00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.710
that heat is then used to generate


00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.230
electricity. Uh and it actually dies


00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.110
away as time goes on. So these uh


00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.510
nuclear RTGs, the radioisotope


00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:25.909
thermmoelectric generators gradually


00:08:25.919 --> 00:08:29.189
lose their power. Um and that's why we


00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:31.029
hear from time to time, and we usually


00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:34.070
report this on on Space Nuts, we hear of


00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.790
uh uh instruments on board Voyager One


00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:39.029
being turned off to save to save the


00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:39.909
power.


00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:41.750
>> Yeah. And that that didn't that happened


00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:43.990
again not so long ago, I think. But um


00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:45.910
>> that that's correct. Yes, it did. There


00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:48.070
was one turned off quite recently. But


00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.790
but perhaps more to the point and your


00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:52.230
uh what you've just said about there


00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:53.910
being some places that have no sunlight


00:08:53.920 --> 00:08:57.190
whatsoever. Uh that applies to the uh


00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.230
those deep craters near the moon's south


00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.949
pole. And that's where we're thinking of


00:09:02.959 --> 00:09:06.870
exploring. So it may be that um these


00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:11.509
beta voltaic arrays uh uh or devices


00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.389
might well be the future of power


00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.710
generation on the near the moon south


00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.389
pole because you're in places where


00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:20.389
there's no light whatsoever from the


00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:21.030
sun.


00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:23.829
>> Absolutely true. Darn cold too. It is.


00:09:23.839 --> 00:09:26.870
>> It is. It's always cold there. Yes. Yes.


00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:28.790
>> Indeed. Uh that's uh it's a really


00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:31.110
interesting story and uh we're obviously


00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.190
in the early phases of finding these


00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.550
alternatives. Is um is treatium safe?


00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:40.870
>> Uh it's probably something regarded uh


00:09:40.880 --> 00:09:44.389
treated carefully. Uh it it is it is


00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.550
generally safe. I mean we never took any


00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:48.389
real precautions with the device that we


00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.350
had on the telescope and maybe we should


00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.710
have done although uh most of us are


00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.750
still around and in fairly good health


00:09:57.760 --> 00:10:01.190
but um yes they are releasing electrons


00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:05.190
uh beta radiation. It's um uh if you if


00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.350
you had a high level though of tritium,


00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.190
if you had a you know significant amount


00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:10.870
of it, then you would have to be careful


00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:12.790
about how you handled it and where it


00:10:12.800 --> 00:10:14.470
was put and if it needed shielding and


00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:15.590
things of that sort.


00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:17.509
>> Yeah. So don't sprinkle it on your corn


00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.110
flakes or anything like that.


00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:20.710
>> Yes, that's right. It's best to avoid it


00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:21.350
if you can.


00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:22.710
>> Yeah.


00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.269
>> Sugar's damaging enough already. Um


00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.190
>> it is


00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.750
about it. If you'd like to um read up on


00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:31.670
that story about the uh the launch of


00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:34.470
the Cubat with the Tritium uh nuclear


00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.470
power device that they're testing, uh


00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.470
you can read about it at daily


00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:41.350
galaxy.com.


00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.310
Um let's keep on this theme, Fred,


00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.030
because that's the good news. Uh the bad


00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:51.430
news is um the the problem of exploding


00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.310
nuclear devices in space or firing


00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.710
nuclear devices from space to targets on


00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.269
Earth. That's that's a real issue. I


00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:02.790
know um was it back in the8s the Star


00:11:02.800 --> 00:11:04.470
Wars


00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.470
um um push was uh all the rage in the


00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.470
news at the time that got shut down


00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:12.230
pretty quickly.


00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.590
>> Star Wars was um a Reagan era


00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.750
initiative. Uh yes, I think it was I


00:11:17.760 --> 00:11:19.269
think it was um


00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.590
>> uh basically electromagnetic radiation


00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.430
to to zap your satellites. It wasn't


00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.430
nuclear though. Uh because nuclear


00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.230
weapons are in space are prohibited by


00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.670
the outer space treaty 1967.


00:11:31.680 --> 00:11:32.949
>> So what's happening?


00:11:32.959 --> 00:11:36.069
>> They're not allowed but


00:11:36.079 --> 00:11:39.110
um there may be some there uh launched


00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:40.230
by


00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.990
>> powers that um stretch the envelope if I


00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.230
can put it that way. Governments that


00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.310
stretch the envelope. Uh and we don't


00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.710
know uh we don't know if there are any.


00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.350
we, you know, they're banned by the uh


00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:54.949
outer space treaty, so there shouldn't


00:11:54.959 --> 00:11:58.870
be any nuclear weapons in space, but


00:11:58.880 --> 00:12:01.670
that's all very well. Um there's a lot


00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:03.829
of things that shouldn't happen that do


00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:06.550
happen. And um so it may be that perhaps


00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:09.190
there are nuclear weapons in space. So


00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.509
the the question is


00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.910
um how how do you detect them if there


00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:16.710
are these weapons? M


00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:21.350
>> um and um that's where this piece of


00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.470
research uh from the Massachusetts


00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.030
Institute of Technology has come from.


00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:31.509
It's um a a person whose name is Aric


00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:34.389
Danagulian. Uh sounds like an Armenian


00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.870
name, does it? Usually I on the end


00:12:36.880 --> 00:12:38.870
Armenian and associate professor of


00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:41.030
nuclear science and engineering at the


00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:43.910
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.


00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:48.550
and he has um essentially uh thought of


00:12:48.560 --> 00:12:52.550
a neat way of


00:12:52.560 --> 00:12:57.190
of building a device that you could fly


00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:01.190
in the vicinity of a satellite to detect


00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.629
whether it is carrying nuclear weapons.


00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.269
Um and it's all about the subatomic


00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.910
particles uh that um you know that that


00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:14.790
uh nuclear weapons are all about. It's


00:13:14.800 --> 00:13:16.310
all about


00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.790
>> neutrons and uh you know the nuclear


00:13:18.800 --> 00:13:20.710
nuclei of atoms that's where it all


00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.829
comes from.


00:13:21.839 --> 00:13:25.509
>> Um so what he's


00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.750
what he has suggested that I might quote


00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:33.509
um I might quote from uh from Dr. to


00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:38.949
Danagolian's work. Uh the


00:13:38.959 --> 00:13:41.110
risk is that if if you did explode a


00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.750
nuclear weapon in low Earth orbit, then


00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:46.389
you basically wreck low Earth orbit for


00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.470
everybody. It's not the blast. It's just


00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.670
the the subatomic particles that do it.


00:13:51.680 --> 00:13:53.990
>> Uh and so what he goes on to say is this


00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.870
danger is compounded by the lack of a


00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.870
verification mechanism for the outer


00:13:58.880 --> 00:14:03.189
space treaty. um there's no detection


00:14:03.199 --> 00:14:05.509
methodologies that have been proposed in


00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.350
the scientific literature. So what he's


00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.189
saying is here's a concept and


00:14:09.199 --> 00:14:12.790
feasibility study uh for verifying a


00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:15.350
satellite's compliance to the outer


00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.629
space treaty by observing the neutrons


00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:20.870
induced by spolation from the


00:14:20.880 --> 00:14:24.310
approximately giga electric vol giga


00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.189
electron volt protons in the inner allen


00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:29.670
radiation belt which is a slightly


00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:32.470
complicated and technical way of saying


00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.069
uh you've already got subatomic


00:14:34.079 --> 00:14:37.189
particles in the radiation belt around


00:14:37.199 --> 00:14:41.829
around our planet. Um if you can um


00:14:41.839 --> 00:14:47.030
basically watch the way uh a satellite


00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.910
responds to those protons that are in


00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:53.110
the radiation belts. Um if for example


00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:54.949
that bombardment of protons from the


00:14:54.959 --> 00:14:58.629
radiation belts causes neutrons to be uh


00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.069
emitted then you can uh have a fair


00:15:02.079 --> 00:15:05.590
degree of um confidence that there might


00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.750
be a nuclear weapon on board or a lot of


00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:10.710
nuclear file material heavy elements


00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.110
like uranium. That's the kind of thing


00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:17.750
that this is all about. Um and so um


00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:21.269
what uh you know what what this is all


00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:25.110
about is uh building a satellite that


00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.030
can detect


00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:29.269
uh neutrons


00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.269
uh coming from radioactive material. and


00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.430
he's basically suggesting a a detector


00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.150
uh a what he calls an inspector


00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.670
satellite that flies by uh the the


00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.189
satellite that you're interested in


00:15:45.199 --> 00:15:46.629
finding out whether it's got nuclear


00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:47.590
weapons.


00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.829
>> And it's got these detectors uh which


00:15:49.839 --> 00:15:51.910
are almost like X-ray detectors, the


00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:54.069
kind of things that you see now in in


00:15:54.079 --> 00:15:55.910
when you go for an X-ray, a chest X-ray.


00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:57.269
They're electronic. They're not


00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:58.790
photographic like they used to be back


00:15:58.800 --> 00:15:59.670
in the day.


00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:01.590
>> Yeah. Um, and they've got what are


00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.590
called neutron sensors. Uh, they're


00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.629
called scintillators. And you put uh you


00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.509
put those in a special arrangement with


00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.590
other basically other detectors. Uh, and


00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.790
um if you do that then you can you can


00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:19.509
apparently sort out the neutrons from


00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.470
the other natural subatomic particles


00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.310
that are floating around near the


00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.470
radiation belts. And the neutrons come


00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.870
from radioactive material. And you can


00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:30.470
also see the direction that they're


00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.949
coming from. So you can sort of point


00:16:32.959 --> 00:16:35.590
this thing towards your target satellite


00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.030
uh the one that you suspect might have


00:16:37.040 --> 00:16:39.189
nuclear weapons and and it will give you


00:16:39.199 --> 00:16:41.590
the direction of where it's coming from.


00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.189
>> Um and so uh just a quote um from again


00:16:47.199 --> 00:16:50.790
from Dr. Danagulian. Um the calculations


00:16:50.800 --> 00:16:54.150
show that a 9 unitit cubat size


00:16:54.160 --> 00:16:56.150
detection platform that's something the


00:16:56.160 --> 00:16:58.150
size of what's that about three loaves


00:16:58.160 --> 00:16:59.990
of bread something of that sort size


00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.430
it's quite small um it can identify a


00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.309
thermonuclear weapon from a distance of


00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.429
4 kilometers in approximately one week


00:17:09.439 --> 00:17:12.150
of observation. Now, that's quite a long


00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:13.189
time,


00:17:13.199 --> 00:17:16.230
>> but uh apparently if you could get it to


00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.870
within 1 kilometer, it would take you


00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.909
about an hour to detect a weapon.


00:17:21.919 --> 00:17:25.429
>> And that's promising. That's one flyby.


00:17:25.439 --> 00:17:28.309
That's, you know, an hour of proximity.


00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.029
Uh you could do that as you go past the


00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:33.590
the suspect the suspect satellite if you


00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:36.549
got an hour in in uh close contact with


00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.909
it or close uh proximity to it within a


00:17:39.919 --> 00:17:42.789
within a kilometer uh then you might


00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.510
well detect a nuclear weapon on board.


00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:46.950
And of course you could improve that if


00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.270
you had more than one of these inspector


00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:51.029
satellites. If you multiplied them up


00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.110
then you could get quite significant


00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:55.029
improvements in that performance. So


00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.270
it's really quite interesting. Yeah.


00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:01.909
>> Um, uh, one quote that I really liked,


00:18:01.919 --> 00:18:04.950
um, and and it's I'm going to read, uh,


00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.270
from Universe Today has a very nice


00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:09.270
article on this. The last sentence is,


00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:10.950
right now, nations like the USA and


00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.669
Russia rely on intelligence to know what


00:18:13.679 --> 00:18:15.909
the other is doing. And as we know from


00:18:15.919 --> 00:18:17.750
history, intelligence can get things


00:18:17.760 --> 00:18:20.630
wrong. You can fake intelligence, said


00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.110
Dr. Danagulian, but you can't fake


00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:26.310
physics. I like that. It's true. So you


00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:28.230
could do it by physics. Yeah,


00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.350
>> they do mention in this particular


00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:33.110
article that there's one suspect


00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:34.710
satellite that seems to have been


00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.510
launched by Russia. And the bottom line


00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:40.470
is that it's it's been put in an orbit


00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.710
that is very strange


00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.070
>> and very hostile in terms of its


00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:48.789
radiation uh in that area. And the


00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.110
question is asked, well, it says no one


00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:52.470
puts satellites there because it's


00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.950
highly radioactive. Why would you put a


00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.630
satellite in that orbit?


00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.789
>> So that's one. They've already they


00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.190
haven't identified as maybe carrying a


00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.590
nuclear weapon, but they've certainly


00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:05.510
identified it as suspicious.


00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:08.549
>> Yes, that's correct. And so um yes,


00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.549
highlighting that I think you know puts


00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.190
this article in context. It um it tells


00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.430
you that this is a real issue and um we


00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.110
kind of need to work on how you might


00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:20.150
detect nuclear weapons in space. it. Of


00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.990
course, the other side of it is if you


00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:23.990
do identify a satellite that's carrying


00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.909
a nuclear weapon,


00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:27.909
>> what do you do next? It's like it's like


00:19:27.919 --> 00:19:29.669
trying to teach people not to overtake


00:19:29.679 --> 00:19:31.669
in merging lanes, isn't it?


00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:35.990
>> Uh yes. Uh but um it's worse than that


00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.870
really because a little bit. Yeah. You


00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.270
know, we have nations that completely


00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:44.070
disregard international law. They invade


00:19:44.080 --> 00:19:48.070
other countries without um so much as a


00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:53.669
you know a sniff of the um um of the um


00:19:53.679 --> 00:19:55.270
all the international treaties. They


00:19:55.280 --> 00:19:57.510
just run a muck among them and away they


00:19:57.520 --> 00:19:58.310
go.


00:19:58.320 --> 00:20:00.789
>> Uh and yes so that's the possibility


00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:02.950
that we might already have them. There


00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.470
there is a kind of corollary corollery


00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:08.390
of this which I was thinking of when


00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.110
when I read this story. Um and that is


00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:16.310
that back in the 70s uh gammaray


00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:19.510
satellites were launched satellites that


00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:21.909
detect gamma radiation and that was to


00:20:21.919 --> 00:20:26.230
detect any inmosphere nuclear tests uh


00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.470
conducted on earth. uh because there was


00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.950
a test ban treaty that was signed uh


00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.110
that all the signatories said no we


00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:35.270
won't test uh nuclear weapons in the


00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:38.310
atmosphere. Uh but they had to verify it


00:20:38.320 --> 00:20:41.190
and so the verification process involved


00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.789
uh a number of satellites being launched


00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:44.549
that could detect gamma rays which would


00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:46.950
be emitted by a nuclear bomb being


00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.990
detonated in in the atmosphere. Uh now


00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.950
none were none were but those satellites


00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.669
are what detected gammaray bursts these


00:20:55.679 --> 00:20:57.669
um you know fascinating pulses of


00:20:57.679 --> 00:21:00.149
radiation that come from uh from


00:21:00.159 --> 00:21:02.070
explosions deep in space.


00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:04.390
>> Yeah. Of course not man-made explosions


00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.070
but natural ones. Yes.


00:21:06.080 --> 00:21:09.110
>> Cuz if they do start detecting nuclear


00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:12.149
weapons in space then the parties


00:21:12.159 --> 00:21:14.710
involved uh they won't say oh sorry


00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:15.990
we'll take them all down. They'll


00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.470
they'll find ways of hiding them.


00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.350
>> Probably. Yes, that's probably right.


00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:23.430
>> Gosh, it's tough, isn't it?


00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.029
>> Uh tough world we live in


00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:27.830
>> indeed. Uh and beyond it in some


00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:28.789
respects.


00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:30.470
>> Uh you can read that story at


00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.470
universetoday.com.


00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.470
This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.510
and Professor Fred Watson.


00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:39.110
>> Let's take a short break from the show


00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:42.549
to tell you about our sponsor, NordVPN.


00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:44.070
Uh let's talk about your online


00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:47.029
security. Now, I I I can tell you from


00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.270
personal experience. Uh last year when


00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:52.310
Judy and I were overseas, we ran into uh


00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:54.630
a bit of a frustrating issue. There were


00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.950
certain apps we simply couldn't use


00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:58.950
without a VPN connection. Things like


00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.470
our banking apps uh they wouldn't load.


00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.430
Uh and even a sports app I rely on uh


00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.430
wouldn't let me watch games back home


00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.590
because of geo fencing and things like


00:22:09.600 --> 00:22:13.110
that. Uh so um with NordVPN I was able


00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:16.390
to watch uh football back home while


00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.070
crossing the Atlantic Ocean. It was


00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:21.430
pretty weird but uh it worked. Uh and


00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.549
NordVPN is the best in the business. Uh


00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.029
with NordVPN you can securely connect to


00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:28.789
servers all around the world which means


00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.270
your apps think you're right back home


00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:33.750
even when you're not. Uh, it's all it


00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:35.510
also encrypts your internet traffic,


00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:37.190
hides your IP address, and keeps your


00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:38.950
personal data safe from hackers and


00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.510
trackers and anybody else who's trying


00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:44.549
to get at you online. And this can


00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.669
happen in public Wi-Fi situations in


00:22:47.679 --> 00:22:50.310
hotels, airports, cafes, anywhere like


00:22:50.320 --> 00:22:53.270
that. The best part, it's fast.


00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:55.270
Thousands of servers globally, and their


00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:58.070
Nord links technology uh allows you to


00:22:58.080 --> 00:23:01.270
run seamlessly. No slowing down. It is


00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:03.350
brilliant. Right now, you can grab the


00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:06.630
special Spacenuts deal through this URL,


00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.750
nordvpn.com/spacenuts.


00:23:09.760 --> 00:23:11.510
You'll get four extra months free, plus


00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:13.830
a 30-day money back guarantee. So,


00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:15.990
there's absolutely no risk if you want


00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.350
to give it a go. That's


00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:21.510
nordvpn.com/spacenuts.


00:23:21.520 --> 00:23:24.070
Stay safe online with our sponsor,


00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:26.390
NordVPN.


00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.230
Roger. Your last here also


00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.149
>> space nuts.


00:23:30.159 --> 00:23:34.230
>> Our next story, Fred, uh is looking at


00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.630
uh all the dust on Earth and where it


00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.549
might have come from. Now, I was


00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.830
thinking cats because, you know, they do


00:23:41.840 --> 00:23:44.789
shed. Uh but it's uh it's a bit more


00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.350
involved than that. And and what is


00:23:47.360 --> 00:23:49.110
really interesting about this story is


00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:51.270
they they think a heck of a lot of it


00:23:51.280 --> 00:23:54.710
came from one source.


00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.789
That's right. and it's a mysterious one


00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.789
as well. Um so this is quite a nice


00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.350
story uh from uh published in Science


00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:08.710
Advances. Um it's about uh the


00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:11.990
micrometeorites that bombard the earth


00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.990
and it's a bit surprising this stuff. Uh


00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.470
you know we think of meteorites as big


00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.669
chunks of rock that come through the


00:24:19.679 --> 00:24:22.230
atmosphere. they have a blaze of glory


00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.149
and then land on the earth somewhere.


00:24:24.159 --> 00:24:25.909
And


00:24:25.919 --> 00:24:29.029
what we've got there is a is um a free


00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.710
sample of of extraterrestrial material.


00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:33.990
Uh but there are also these


00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.230
micrometeorites which rain on the


00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.909
earth's atmosphere and they're dust


00:24:37.919 --> 00:24:39.909
particles as you've kind of hinted.


00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:40.310
>> Yeah.


00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:44.230
>> Uh they um and they're sort of always


00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.310
falling on Earth. Uh and that uh is


00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:51.669
again it's a free gift from space. Um I


00:24:51.679 --> 00:24:54.950
think so I was sort of vaguely involved


00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.430
with this stuff probably 50 years ago


00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.149
back in the 70s. I think they were then


00:25:00.159 --> 00:25:02.950
called Brownly particles. Um so I think


00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.430
that's what we're talking about. Yeah.


00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.549
Uh but they're now I think called cosmic


00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.710
ferals. I should check whether Brownley


00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.110
particles and cos cosmic ferals are the


00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:17.029
same thing. But basically what they what


00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.230
they are is bits of meteor meteor that


00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.350
have melted as they come down through


00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:26.070
the earth's atmosphere. But they


00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:27.990
they they actually survive into the


00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.149
inner atmosphere and they cool down and


00:25:30.159 --> 00:25:32.950
they form a little sphere because the um


00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.190
basically the surface tension of molten


00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.830
material brings them into a sphere. Uh


00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:43.190
and that uh is the story so far because


00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.470
that um heating that you that they


00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.789
experience as the as the sort of parent


00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.750
body, the meteor meteor or meteorite as


00:25:51.760 --> 00:25:55.269
it comes through the atmosphere, it uh


00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.830
kind of destroys their chemical


00:25:57.840 --> 00:25:59.590
structure. You know that the minerals in


00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:02.390
it get get metamorphosed. They get


00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:03.909
changed because they've been subject to


00:26:03.919 --> 00:26:05.350
very high temperatures.


00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:08.710
>> Yeah. Um but there is a technique uh


00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:13.029
that allows you to look at uh some of


00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.390
the characteristics of these objects


00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.750
that is not destroyed by heat and it's


00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:24.070
the oxygen isotope signature uh which


00:26:24.080 --> 00:26:25.510
we've talked about before. We've talked


00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:27.990
about isotopes and how they uh you know


00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.830
how we distinguish between heavy water


00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:31.750
and normal water and all of that sort of


00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:32.549
thing. M


00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.110
>> uh that's so it's basically the the


00:26:35.120 --> 00:26:38.789
number of neutrons in a in an atom. Um


00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.630
so you've got these oxygen signatures


00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:47.669
uh that um essentially uh let you uh


00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:51.430
group these cosmic sphererals, the


00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.110
Brownly particles if that's what they


00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:56.789
are. Um and it turns out that so so


00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.190
people do you know they do population


00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.510
census statistics on these objects to


00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:05.029
find out what uh what relationships they


00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.269
bear with one another.


00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.549
About 10% of them uh of these fererals


00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.549
that have been ident identified and


00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.710
analyzed uh collect in a group that is


00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.590
has got the wonderful name of group four


00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:21.430
uh which presumably means there's


00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.029
another three as well.


00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:27.590
>> Yeah. U and it's uh the again what makes


00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.789
them stand out in this group is the


00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.269
oxygen isotope signature that I just


00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.909
mentioned before. It's depleted in uh an


00:27:35.919 --> 00:27:40.149
isotope called oxygen 16. But here's


00:27:40.159 --> 00:27:42.630
where the story gets very interesting


00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.310
because


00:27:44.320 --> 00:27:49.029
um no known meteorites have that same


00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.510
oxygen isotope signature.


00:27:51.520 --> 00:27:55.110
>> And you'd expect uh if these things were


00:27:55.120 --> 00:27:58.789
common that there would be meteorites uh


00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.590
that match them in their composition. Uh


00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:03.990
and often with meteorites we can get an


00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.310
idea where they've come from. uh most of


00:28:06.320 --> 00:28:08.149
them come from the asteroid belt from


00:28:08.159 --> 00:28:11.669
collisions between asteroids. Uh so uh


00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:14.549
that um you know that is a bit


00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.710
mysterious that we've got these


00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:20.870
subatomic sorry these small ferals of


00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:22.230
material that have come down through the


00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.269
atmosphere uh and got that globular


00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.789
shape. Um it it's mysterious that we


00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:31.830
don't know we don't see any meteorites


00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:35.190
that match their composition. weird.


00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.789
>> It is weird. Yes. Uh and so what they're


00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.230
suggesting is that um it's basically


00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.149
something that that comes from an


00:28:44.159 --> 00:28:47.430
asteroid whose uh whose characteristics


00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.350
are unusual uh that we have not uh yet


00:28:51.360 --> 00:28:53.909
um identified it.


00:28:53.919 --> 00:28:58.070
>> Wow. Okay. So we're still looking.


00:28:58.080 --> 00:29:00.310
>> We're still looking. There's a a sort of


00:29:00.320 --> 00:29:05.510
sub mystery as well because um the a


00:29:05.520 --> 00:29:07.430
detailed analysis of this. You can break


00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:09.590
that group four stuff down into other


00:29:09.600 --> 00:29:13.029
smaller groups and uh some of them


00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.990
basically show signs of having had two


00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.990
different uh minerals in them before


00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.549
they entered the earth's atmosphere. Um


00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:25.750
and um one would be typical of


00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:28.470
well-known uh well-known types of


00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.269
asteroids and the other as I said


00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.909
doesn't correspond to any kind of known


00:29:33.919 --> 00:29:38.630
um group of uh of um cosmic ferals or


00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.549
meteorites. Uh and it's really quite


00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:44.549
remarkable that this you know we're


00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.870
being bombarded by dust particles that


00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.190
come from somewhere which we haven't


00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.149
identified.


00:29:50.159 --> 00:29:53.029
>> Yeah. Wow. Um, could that mean they're


00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.510
from beyond our system or it's just a


00:29:55.520 --> 00:29:58.710
part of the system that we


00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:00.950
>> I think it's I don't know.


00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:02.710
>> Yeah, I think it's the other way around.


00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.430
Um because the um the team who have done


00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.029
the research on this a very very


00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.870
thorough piece of research


00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.190
>> they've basically


00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.630
um as you would you've used simulations


00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.909
computer simulations to to essentially


00:30:17.919 --> 00:30:20.789
work out what conditions these things


00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.590
formed in when they um melted coming


00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:26.070
through the earth's atmosphere. And it


00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:28.310
suggested that the best fit they get to


00:30:28.320 --> 00:30:30.789
what they see, the the sort of textures


00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.990
that are in the material fit with


00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.750
relatively low velocities, 14 to 17


00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:39.830
kilometers/s


00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:42.470
uh which is pretty speedy when you think


00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:45.190
of it on Earth, but um uh in space


00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.909
that's that's a fairly modest uh space


00:30:47.919 --> 00:30:49.590
speed for a meteorite. They typically


00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:52.230
will be more like 30 kilometers/s.


00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.710
And so that low value uh suggests that


00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:01.269
possibly those particles originated in


00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:06.230
near-Earth asteroids um ones that are uh


00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.990
following a similar path through space


00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.269
to the Earth. Uh, and that might mean


00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.029
that we've got some sort of uh in in the


00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.350
Earth's environment, some sort of


00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:21.110
unusual asteroid that is not matched by


00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:22.870
all the ones that we know already.


00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.110
>> Wow, that'd be something. Uh, that's


00:31:25.120 --> 00:31:26.470
probably going to be hard to track down,


00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.350
though.


00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:29.110
>> Yes. Yes, that's probably right. And


00:31:29.120 --> 00:31:30.470
especially since it might not exist


00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.389
anymore. It may have collided and formed


00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:33.830
little bits that have


00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:35.669
>> basically rained down on the Earth.


00:31:35.679 --> 00:31:35.909
>> Yeah.




00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.950
>> Now, it wasn't fear, Rusty. just throw.


00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.310
>> No, it wasn't here. That's right. Yeah,


00:31:40.320 --> 00:31:42.710
thanks Rusty. It's not here.


00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:44.789
>> Um, for the record, Brownley particles


00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.269
and cosmic fererals are closely related,


00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.430
but they are not exactly the same thing.


00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.149
>> Okay,


00:31:50.159 --> 00:31:52.549
>> they represent two different stages or


00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.029
types of micrometeorites.


00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.029
>> There you go. Thank you for checking


00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:58.389
that. Yes,


00:31:58.399 --> 00:31:59.990
>> that's all right. Um, yeah, they're very


00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.669
close, but they're not not the same.


00:32:01.679 --> 00:32:02.950
>> So, I was on the right track.


00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.029
>> You were. Yes.


00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.909
And you can read all about that at uh


00:32:07.919 --> 00:32:11.110
the Daily Galaxy website. Um and the


00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:14.470
article was published where Fred of Lost


00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.070
Science Advances.


00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:17.350
>> Science advances. That's right.


00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:18.070
>> Yes.


00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:19.509
>> Want to read the whole thing before bed


00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.470
so you sleep well.


00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:23.190
>> Yep.


00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.870
>> Yeah. This is Space Nuts with Andrew


00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:28.630
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.950
We choose to go to the moon in this


00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.430
decade and do the other things not


00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.830
because they are easy but because they


00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:36.470
are hard.


00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.470
>> These nuts.


00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.909
>> Our final story today takes us to the


00:32:41.919 --> 00:32:43.830
edge of our galaxy. Well, it takes us


00:32:43.840 --> 00:32:45.590
from the center of our galaxy right out


00:32:45.600 --> 00:32:47.029
to the edge of our galaxy because we're


00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:48.549
talking about the whole thing locktock


00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:52.149
and barrel. And it appears, Fred, with


00:32:52.159 --> 00:32:55.029
some very clever scientific brains in


00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.750
action, that our galaxy stretches out


00:32:57.760 --> 00:33:00.630
further than we thought.


00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:02.950
Uh, it does. It looks as though the


00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:04.630
spiral arms are longer than we thought


00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:05.909
they were.


00:33:05.919 --> 00:33:08.549
>> Uh, and I think this is a very nice


00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:11.110
piece of work. Uh, as as I hinted


00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:14.070
before, uh, partly because it uses a a


00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:16.230
technique that I think is really


00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:17.990
extraordinary. It's a very powerful


00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.830
technique uh using what we call light


00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:24.710
echoes. So um so the story basically to


00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.669
set this in context, it's very hard for


00:33:27.679 --> 00:33:29.669
us to produce a map of what our own


00:33:29.679 --> 00:33:31.350
galaxy looks like. And that's because


00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:34.389
we're embedded in one of the spiral


00:33:34.399 --> 00:33:37.509
arms. Uh the stars that we see when we


00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.430
look at the Milky Way, they're stars


00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.070
that fellow travelers in the spiral arms


00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:44.789
with our sun and solar system, but they


00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.549
only go out to a thousand lighty years


00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.549
or so because the spiral arms are so


00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.029
dusty that you can't really penetrate


00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.669
much beyond that. Um, and if you were


00:33:53.679 --> 00:33:57.110
relying only on visible light,


00:33:57.120 --> 00:34:00.549
uh, it would be like trying to draw a


00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.549
map of the whole of do from standing


00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.710
outside do jail there on, um, forgotten


00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:10.230
this mquarry street.


00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:11.430
>> Mcquaryy Street. Yeah.


00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.510
>> Yes. Yes. Oh, for the record, they're


00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:15.510
putting a they've t they've taken down


00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:17.109
the public building in front of the old


00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.909
do jail, which is now a tourist tourist,


00:34:19.919 --> 00:34:21.589
and they're turning it into a public


00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.030
common.


00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:24.790
>> I like that idea. That's that's going to


00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.310
look very nice when it's done.


00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:28.389
>> So So that would improve your view of


00:34:28.399 --> 00:34:30.790
the city of do, but it still might not


00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.349
let you make a map of DO from


00:34:33.359 --> 00:34:35.669
>> from just there. And that's how we are


00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.750
in our galaxy. If you're relying on


00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:39.990
visible light observations,


00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:42.149
uh you're all you're seeing when you


00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.510
look is the is the neighborhood of our


00:34:45.520 --> 00:34:47.349
spiral arm, a local spiral arm. You


00:34:47.359 --> 00:34:49.589
don't get any hint or inclination of the


00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.710
structure of the galaxy uh beyond that.


00:34:52.720 --> 00:34:55.190
And in particular,


00:34:55.200 --> 00:34:57.270
you know, if we see a a thousand lighty


00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.430
years or so, there's another 100,000


00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.030
that we're not seeing because that's


00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:04.470
about the diameter of our galaxy. So um


00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.589
the situation improves when you use uh


00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.589
infrared radiation. You can sort of


00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.470
penetrate uh through the dust and see


00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.310
actually the center towards the center


00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.310
of our galaxy. That's how we know about


00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:17.750
the black hole in the center of our


00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.270
galaxy because we could see stars


00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.870
orbiting around it. Um but it improves


00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.349
even more on a broader scale if you can


00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:27.109
use radio telescopes because you can


00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.349
plot uh where the clouds of hydrogen gas


00:35:31.359 --> 00:35:34.870
cold hydrogen uh which radiates in radio


00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.470
waves uh with a wavelength of 21 cm uh


00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.230
that you can plot out. But if you're


00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:42.390
going to try and draw a map, you do need


00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:43.910
to do some modeling with that. You've


00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.589
got to assume things about the rotation


00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.510
of the galaxy. So it doesn't just give


00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:50.390
you a direct map. And that could be


00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.230
wrong. We could have that little bit of


00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:55.109
it wrong. Uh you know the uh the stuff


00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:57.990
that comes from the radio observations.


00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:02.069
So what's happened now is it's a team uh


00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.069
I think they're based in Italy. Uh and


00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.750
what they've done is used


00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.150
um a direct method of kind of setting up


00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:16.950
a standard ruler. Uh because if you've


00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.390
got a standard ruler and you can see it


00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.230
in deep space, then you you know how far


00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:21.829
away it is because you know you can


00:36:21.839 --> 00:36:23.670
measure how long it appears to be. And


00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:25.270
if you know how long it is, which is


00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.589
what a standard ruler is, then you know


00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.390
how far away it is. Um and that's what


00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.790
they're doing. They have and and it goes


00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:34.710
back to something we mentioned earlier


00:36:34.720 --> 00:36:36.790
in the show, gammaray bursts, these


00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.270
burst of gamma radiation.


00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.630
uh those bursts uh don't just directly


00:36:42.640 --> 00:36:45.670
come to us, they also bounce off or are


00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:48.470
reflected by clouds of dust in our


00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:54.470
spiral arms. And uh so by timing how


00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.069
long uh it takes for these echoes as


00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.150
they're called light echoes even though


00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:03.349
it's gamma radiation uh to what the


00:37:03.359 --> 00:37:07.829
delay is between a light echo and the uh


00:37:07.839 --> 00:37:09.589
source itself which is the gammaray


00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.030
burst I should say they probably come


00:37:11.040 --> 00:37:14.550
from collapsing mass massive stars or


00:37:14.560 --> 00:37:17.430
merger of neutron stars uh very


00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:19.109
energetic events because they they're


00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.430
bright in gamma radiation. Uh but if you


00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:23.910
look at a light echo from a gammaray


00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.550
burst, it gives you a scale to this. You


00:37:26.560 --> 00:37:31.030
you know um how far uh basically it


00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:33.270
gives you a standard ruler um because


00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.030
you can time it accurately. You know


00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:37.990
that 300,000 kilometers/s is the speed


00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.230
of gamma rays through space. And you


00:37:40.240 --> 00:37:42.310
know if you know how far away it's gone


00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:43.829
in that time, then that gives you a


00:37:43.839 --> 00:37:45.190
distance measure. So you've got a


00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:48.230
standard ruler. Uh it's a very very nice


00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:51.510
way of doing this. And um using that uh


00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:55.589
these uh scientists um as I said at


00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.589
least the lead the lead author is


00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.790
certainly in Italy at Enough in Milano.


00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.910
Uh they uh they've done this work


00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.910
looking at these gammaray bursts with


00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.230
their light echoes and that allows them


00:38:08.240 --> 00:38:11.349
to calculate basically the size of our


00:38:11.359 --> 00:38:13.510
spiral arms without relying on any kind


00:38:13.520 --> 00:38:15.190
of modeling. M


00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:19.190
>> uh and so they think that the new


00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:22.069
observations indicate that our spiral


00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.430
arms are something like 10% longer than


00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.550
we thought they were.


00:38:26.560 --> 00:38:27.670
>> Wow. That's a lot.


00:38:27.680 --> 00:38:29.670
>> And yes, that's significant, isn't it?


00:38:29.680 --> 00:38:32.310
It's it's really um you know, this is,


00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.310
as I said, this is very nice uh nice


00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.670
astronomy.


00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:39.510
>> It is indeed. Yeah. Um of course, as you


00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:41.109
say, we we can't really look at our


00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.349
galaxy and we don't know exactly what it


00:38:43.359 --> 00:38:45.109
looks like. Um there's a lot of science


00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.150
that they've put together to try and


00:38:48.160 --> 00:38:50.150
create the image of it. And even in this


00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:52.310
particular story, uh which is in the


00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:54.390
universetoday.com, they've got an


00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.190
artist's impression of what this new


00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:58.230
look is like.


00:38:58.240 --> 00:38:59.670
>> Yes, that's all you can do.


00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:03.430
>> Reminds me of an upside down snail.


00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.349
>> It does. Yes, that's right. A bit.


00:39:05.359 --> 00:39:08.150
>> I see what you mean. Yes. Yes. It's very


00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:09.829
much very helpful.


00:39:09.839 --> 00:39:10.950
>> Or a squid.


00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.150
>> Could be a squid.


00:39:12.160 --> 00:39:15.030
>> Could be a squid. Yeah. Uh but in real


00:39:15.040 --> 00:39:18.390
terms, we just have to it's an educ a


00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.310
very very well educated guess, I


00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:21.510
suppose.


00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:24.069
>> Um it's Yes, it is. It's it's a


00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:27.349
measurement. So it's it's a it's it's an


00:39:27.359 --> 00:39:28.390
you're right. It's an artist's


00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:29.750
impression. That's really the only way


00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.990
we can depict the Milky Way. Some of the


00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.750
depictions are very very good and they


00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.990
rely on the very best radio and infrared


00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.230
observations that have been made. But


00:39:38.240 --> 00:39:40.390
this is going to modify it a little bit


00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.870
by our new knowledge of the spiral arms.


00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.550
And I should say um the um it's the


00:39:46.560 --> 00:39:50.310
Chandra satellite uh which is an X-ray


00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.790
observatory um by operated by NASA uh


00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.710
that has been used to make the


00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:59.109
measurements. And I do like the headline


00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.910
on a little uh NASA video that there is


00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.630
here which is NASA's Chandra examines


00:40:04.640 --> 00:40:06.470
Milky Way at arms length.


00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.150
>> Yeah.


00:40:08.160 --> 00:40:11.030
Well done. Very well done. Clever clever


00:40:11.040 --> 00:40:12.310
those words.


00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:13.750
>> Yeah, they are there some good people


00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:14.630
there.


00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:16.630
>> So, the articles in universe today, but


00:40:16.640 --> 00:40:19.829
you can read it in a deeper form through


00:40:19.839 --> 00:40:23.349
the NASA website or the uh astronomy and


00:40:23.359 --> 00:40:25.030
astrophysics journal I think is


00:40:25.040 --> 00:40:27.910
published uh the full paper which is um


00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.150
yeah


00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:30.630
journal


00:40:30.640 --> 00:40:33.510
>> lots of numbers in it. Yeah, lots and


00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:36.230
lots of numbers. numbers that are too


00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:39.589
big for my brain.


00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:41.910
>> All right. Uh that's where we end the


00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.750
show, Fred. Thank you very much.


00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.150
>> Oh, a pleasure. Uh some, as you said at


00:40:46.160 --> 00:40:48.870
the beginning, some nice stories there


00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:49.829
to share them with.


00:40:49.839 --> 00:40:50.870
>> Indeed.


00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.310
>> Uh we'll catch you real soon. Thank you,


00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:53.190
Fred.


00:40:53.200 --> 00:40:54.310
>> Always. Thanks, Andrew.


00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:55.990
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.750
large. And uh as I say, between


00:40:57.760 --> 00:40:59.190
episodes, visit our website,


00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:00.790
spacenutspodcast.com


00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:02.870
or spacenuts.io


00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.670
if you're a lazy typist. And you can


00:41:05.680 --> 00:41:08.069
have a look around, visit our shop, uh,


00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:09.829
sign up for the astronomy daily feed,


00:41:09.839 --> 00:41:11.190
send us some questions or comments


00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:13.190
through the ask me anything button at


00:41:13.200 --> 00:41:15.589
the top, AMA. Uh, you might want to


00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:17.430
become a supporter. You can do that,


00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.349
too. And don't forget to leave reviews


00:41:19.359 --> 00:41:21.990
of Space Nuts, your favorite podcasting


00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:23.510
platform. And thanks to Hugh in the


00:41:23.520 --> 00:41:26.230
studio because he didn't turn up today.


00:41:26.240 --> 00:41:28.309
And from me, Andrew Duckling. Whoops.


00:41:28.319 --> 00:41:29.829
Uh, thanks for your company. We'll catch


00:41:29.839 --> 00:41:31.670
you on the next episode of Space Nuts.


00:41:31.680 --> 00:41:32.630
Bye-bye.


00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:34.950
>> Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the


00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.910
Space Nuts podcast


00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.870
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:43.510
iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:41:43.520 --> 00:41:45.910
player. You can also stream on demand at


00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.870
bytes.com. This has been another quality


00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:53.319
podcast production from byes.com.