Space Chronicles: Blue Origin’s Boom, The Case for Primordial Black Holes | Space Nuts:...

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Kind: captions
Language: en

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Hello again. Thank you for joining us.


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This is Space Nuts, where we talk


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astronomy and space science. My name is


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Andrew Dunley. Great to have your


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company. Well, you've probably been


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listening to Jonty for the last few


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weeks with Fred overseas, gallivanting


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as he does. He loves to gallivant. And


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he's back. And what we're going to talk


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about today, uh, all sorts of things.


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The Blue Origin blowout. You've probably


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seen the footage. Wow. Uh, primordial


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black holes, gravitational micro


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lensing, and is dark matter a fury.


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We'll deal with all of that today on


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Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And he's back. and he's looking well.


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It's Professor Fred Watson, astronomer


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at large. Hello, Fred.


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>> Hello, Andrew. You're looking well, too.


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It's nice to see you.


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>> Yeah, it's good to see you, too. I mean,


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it's been a while for both of us


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because, uh, we had to do a lot of


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catchup episodes, but we didn't quite


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have enough time to cover everything, so


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we brought Jonty in.


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>> Uh, but he and I had to do catchup


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episodes to cover an absence of mine.


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So, um I haven't actually recorded with


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you for quite a while.


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>> Yes. Yeah. Must be a couple of months or


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so.


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>> Yeah, it would be. But it doesn't sound


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like that to the audience. Really?


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>> No, probably not.


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>> Yes. It's all witchery.


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>> Well, we Yeah, I think so. I think so.


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Yeah, there's at least two or three of


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them.


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>> Yeah. Okay, good.


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>> So, where did where did you go? You you


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were all over the place.


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>> Uh yes. So it was uh a conference in


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Germany that took me up to Europe and


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that that actually wasn't really


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interesting um because in fact I was


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going to Scotland before that. I had a


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week with my daughters in Scotland and


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then off to Germany. But the trip there


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of course um we can't fly through the


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Middle East at the moment because of the


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war going on there. And so my flight via


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via Dubai, they were long cancelled, but


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Marley managed to pull me a flight up to


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Seoul in Korea. And then on thin air


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from Soul over the North Pole, and I've


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actually got a certificate to prove that


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I've been over the North Pole. It's over


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there. I can't go and grab it, but


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>> uh and then into into Helsinki, and then


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yes, it was cold. Then then um uh across


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to Edinburgh. So the the polar flight


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was really interesting because we


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started off in Seoul in Korea uh and


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then you know took off uh with with Vin


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Air and I expected us to head towards


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the towards the west cuz that's what you


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do. Uh but no, we headed to the east.


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Wow.


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>> And we actually went up between Russia


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and America. So up the Bearing Straight.


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Wow.


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>> So, it went far enough east that you


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could turn north right up the bearing


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straight. So, you got Russia on one


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side, America on the other, and then


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over the North Pole uh with with a


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little Polar certificate to prove it.


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Nice touchdown in Helsinki. Yeah.


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>> Uh an hour or so there, then a nice


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flight over to Edinburgh. And there was


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with my daughter directly. It was great.


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>> Yeah. Fantastic. Um I've got an Arctic


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Circle certificate, I think.


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>> Yes, you will have. Yeah, I've got one


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of those as well, a North Cape


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certificate, in fact.


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>> Oh, yeah.


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>> Yeah. Um, but the conference I went to


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in Germany, uh, was, um, it was the 60th


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birthday conference of a colleague with


00:03:46.239 --> 00:03:48.630
whom I've worked very closely, uh, on


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the rave survey, which we've talked


00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:51.670
about before, the radio velocity


00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:54.630
experiment. Uh, Matias Steinmet's hair,


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Dr. Professor Matias Steinmets, uh, very


00:03:57.519 --> 00:03:59.990
senior German astronomer now. He, uh,


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led the project. I was the project


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manager. So we worked very closely


00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.509
together with a team of people most of


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whom were at the conference to celebrate


00:04:07.519 --> 00:04:10.229
his 60th birthday. So I was the sole


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Australian representative so they made a


00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.630
bit of a fuss of me which was nice. Uh I


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got the the kickoff talk and uh and they


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they looked after me. Uh so it was very


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very good and I I picked up a lot of


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what's happening currently in the field


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of science that we're doing. Well we


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might mention some of that a bit later


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on in the show.


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>> Sounds good. Uh my trip uh was a little


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closer to home, only a 9-hour flight


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away. We went to uh Vietnam for two and


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a half weeks. And uh people jokingly


00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:40.230
said to me, "Don't mention the war." But


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don't mention the war. M


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>> it's uh it's still very sensitive


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subject and and imagine


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>> what blew my mind and this will be of


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interest to um I suppose American


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listeners because of America's


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involvement in the Vietnam War but um


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there is still strong division between


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North and South


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>> and it hasn't been forgotten even 50


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years after it ended there's still very


00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.469
much focused on the aftermath of of that


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conflict


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>> I suppose just because it had it was


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such a defining time in their history.


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And uh I mean the Vietnam War was only a


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part of what they dealt with. They


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they'd been dealing with colonialism


00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.510
prior to that from France for for


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decades and decades.


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>> Uh so it's quite extraordinary. There


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was a a great uh documentary series I


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think it was on SPS in Australia called


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The Birth of a Nation. And uh one of our


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guides actually mentioned it and said,


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"We'd love to see it over here, but


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we're not allowed."


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>> Oh, interesting.


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>> So, I watched it and um I'm going to try


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and figure out how to get it to him, but


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I don't know. I don't know.


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>> We'll see.


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>> You could get You could run a foul of uh


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diplomatic nicities if you tried that.


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Who knows?


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>> Could do. Could do. Anyway,


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>> especially if you talk about it on a


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public podcast.


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>> Yeah, maybe like you are doing now. Am


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I?


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>> They're probably not allowed to watch


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this over in Vietnam either.


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>> Maybe not. Maybe not.


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>> It was funny though cuz I was posting


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posting uh some little videos. I like


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like to do little videos while I'm away


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and I was posting them on Tik Tok. I


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picked up 140 Vietnamese followers.


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>> Oh, that's fantastic.


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>> Yeah, I thought it was cool.


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>> There you go. That at least I can watch


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your Tik Tok stuff.


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>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh particularly the one I


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did at uh Harong Bay. It's beautiful


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part of the world. And I only did a


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60-second sort of 360 degree scan of the


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the place. But uh for some reason that


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video's gone nuts. It's uh at last count


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had 14 and a half thousand views.


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>> Whoa.


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>> I don't understand it, but uh yeah, that


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was nice.


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>> And we did all the other stuff. Train


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Street, you know, where the train runs


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next to the cafes in in um


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>> No, I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. It's very


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popular.


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>> Somewhere I should go.


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>> Yeah. uh up in Hanoi and uh many other


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places. I won't I won't bore people to


00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:09.189
tears with it. We got to get down to


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business. Uh our first topic, Fred, is


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very explosive. This is the um the the


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Blue Origin not launch that happened the


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other day. Uh in fact, I don't even


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think it got an inch off the ground


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before it went up in a beautiful um


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nuclear plume.


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>> It was very like a nuclear plume. And


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no, it wasn't actually meant to get off


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the ground. This was a fire test. So it


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was fired. All right.


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>> Yeah, it did. Uh it was um um Yes.


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Basically testing out the engines for


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for a launch that was forthcoming that


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was going to take a whole lot of sat uh


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telecommunication satellites


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uh up uh into orbit. Uh they were


00:07:53.520 --> 00:07:56.629
fortunately not on the rocket. Um I


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think there were uh the Amazon Leo uh


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satellites which is the what used to be


00:08:01.919 --> 00:08:04.869
called Kiper uh and is perhaps the


00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.909
principal com competitor potentially to


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Starink. Um uh anyway the satellites


00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:15.990
were not on the on the booster uh and uh


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it's basically was to test fire it seven


00:08:19.520 --> 00:08:21.589
engines. This is the new Glenn booster


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which is Blue Origin's heavy lift


00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.749
booster. It's not as heavy lift as the


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SpaceX uh super heavy uh booster that


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takes the Starship up.


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>> It's not lifting anything now, is it?


00:08:34.479 --> 00:08:38.870
>> Uh it's not. No. And uh what's it it's


00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:41.909
got sort of serious ramifications


00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:43.990
because not only did they blow up the


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rocket, they also blew up the launch


00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:48.630
pad. Uh effectively there's a lot of


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damage uh to the launchpad which is if I


00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.030
remember right, it is at Cape Canaveral.


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>> Yeah, I think so. Uh and um that uh


00:08:57.600 --> 00:08:59.430
explosion has caused damage that people


00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.230
are now talking about several months if


00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:05.990
not a year or so to repair. Uh and


00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:07.910
that's bad because that's the only


00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:09.750
facility in the world that can launch


00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:11.670
the new Glenn booster.


00:09:11.680 --> 00:09:13.829
>> And the new Glen booster is needed for


00:09:13.839 --> 00:09:17.269
the Arteimus program. Uh uh in


00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.710
particular uh later this year there was


00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.710
supposed to be a test launch of the


00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.430
their Blue Moon lander. This is Blue


00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.750
Origins Luna lander um which is the uh


00:09:31.760 --> 00:09:35.990
the um basically uh the competition if I


00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.310
can put it that way with the SpaceX


00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.430
Starship. So NASA contracted both SpaceX


00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.870
and Blue Origin to develop a lander,


00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:47.590
Luna lander for the moon. SP X has


00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.509
theirs based on the Starship. Um this


00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:53.910
what is it 4 to 50 m tall? It's


00:09:53.920 --> 00:09:54.949
colossal.


00:09:54.959 --> 00:09:56.949
>> Uh to land that on a rough surface on


00:09:56.959 --> 00:09:59.509
the moon, I'm not sure I'd be that keen


00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:02.230
on that, but never mind. uh the uh the


00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.230
Blue Origin version, the Blue uh Blue


00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:08.710
Moon as it's called. Uh that is only


00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:12.230
eight stories high. Uh so it's it's uh


00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.030
shorter. Uh but these two are both in


00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:17.590
the running to land the first astronauts


00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.550
on the lunar surface in 2028. Yeah. Uh


00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:23.430
so um there was going to be a test of uh


00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.190
the the U New Glenn heavy lifter lifting


00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:32.150
up a blue moon um landing vehicle uh a


00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:35.030
prototype landing vehicle uh into into


00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.870
orbit and actually to touch it down on


00:10:36.880 --> 00:10:38.389
the moon and that was supposed to happen


00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:40.630
this year. That's clearly off the agenda


00:10:40.640 --> 00:10:43.110
now. Yeah. Uh and so um it's not going


00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:44.630
to happen. Actually, it's a little bit


00:10:44.640 --> 00:10:47.350
sad because I've just read today that


00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.069
that Luna lander um which of course


00:10:50.079 --> 00:10:51.670
wasn't on board the rocket when it


00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:53.910
exploded has just passed with flying


00:10:53.920 --> 00:10:56.790
colors its environmental test. There's


00:10:56.800 --> 00:10:58.470
an environmental test that everything


00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.470
goes through. is in a huge vacuum


00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.790
chamber um which is a NASA facility


00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:08.150
uh and you can you can change the uh the


00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:11.430
temperature to match those huge extremes


00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:12.870
of temperature that you would get on the


00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:15.590
moon. Uh so there the their prototype


00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.630
lunar lander the blue moon mark1 which


00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:21.030
is called endurance which is a great


00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:23.190
name because that's not what's happened


00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.430
to the booster but endurance has passed


00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.269
with flying colors. Sadly, at the


00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:28.710
moment, there's nothing to take it into


00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.030
space. So, we'll have to see how that


00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:31.670
evolves.


00:11:31.680 --> 00:11:35.430
>> Yeah, I think you you and I spoke about


00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.750
NASA looking at other options other than


00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:40.710
SpaceX um not long before you you went


00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:45.670
away and um and and now this is kind of,


00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:47.509
>> for one of a better term, blown up in


00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.670
Blue Origin's face because that takes


00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:51.910
them off the table, doesn't it? Uh it


00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:54.470
seems to for a while unless they can do


00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.389
some very rapid repairs to the launch


00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.350
vehic uh the sorry the launch site


00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.829
>> uh the launch facility. So yeah it could


00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:06.550
push back. So the idea was that late


00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:09.910
next year uh there would be the Optimus


00:12:09.920 --> 00:12:12.949
3 flight which would consist of these


00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:15.990
two potential lunar landing vehicles. Um


00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.790
the Starship on Space X's side, the Blue


00:12:18.800 --> 00:12:21.269
Moon on Blue Origin side. They were both


00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.990
going to be launched into Earth orbit uh


00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.430
to have um rendevous tests uh to


00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.910
demonstrate that their viability. Uh


00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:32.230
when you link them to the space launch


00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.069
system, the the basically the Orion


00:12:34.079 --> 00:12:36.310
spacecraft, which is what took the


00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:38.790
Arteimus 2 astronauts around the moon,


00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:41.110
that will take Artemis 3, beg you


00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.069
pardon, Otimus 4 astronauts to the moon,


00:12:44.079 --> 00:12:46.790
but to land they've got to transfer into


00:12:46.800 --> 00:12:48.790
another spacecraft and land on the lunar


00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:52.069
surface. So all that I think is being


00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:54.629
thrown into question uh with this


00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.470
explosion. We will wait to see. It's


00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:57.990
still too early. We don't even know what


00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.590
caused it yet. Uh it's it was only uh


00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.550
less than a week ago as we as we speak.


00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:07.590
Uh it was so we don't actually know what


00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.509
the consequences are likely to be, but


00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.990
they could be quite serious for the


00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.030
Otimus program.


00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:16.870
>> Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, I think Elon Musk


00:13:16.880 --> 00:13:19.430
calls these things, um, successful


00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.150
failures. I I don't know.


00:13:22.160 --> 00:13:24.629
>> A rapid unscheduled disintegration.


00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.310
>> Yes. I don't know what Jeff Bezos calls


00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.110
them, but um,


00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.790
>> yeah, hopefully they can get down to the


00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:32.389
bottom of it, but it Yeah, it does throw


00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.069
a spanner into the works. Maybe it was a


00:13:34.079 --> 00:13:35.509
spanner thrown into the works that


00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.870
caused the explosion. Who who knows? The


00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:40.870
the one good news story part of the


00:13:40.880 --> 00:13:43.269
story is nobody was injured.


00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:45.030
Yeah. Wow. Because it, you know, when


00:13:45.040 --> 00:13:46.470
you, as you said, it looked like a


00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.430
nuclear explosion. It was incredible.


00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.790
>> Uh, and um the so there was huge


00:13:52.800 --> 00:13:54.629
potential for injury there, but but


00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:55.990
everybody was accounted for.


00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.509
>> I I actually read today that some people


00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.230
who watched the explosion


00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.910
um this this sort of demonstrates how


00:14:03.920 --> 00:14:08.150
big and powerful it was took 37 seconds


00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:11.430
to feel the shock wave.


00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.110
>> Really? So they must have been a long


00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:13.829
way away.


00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:15.670
>> Yeah. But they could see it quite


00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:17.509
clearly. It was such a big explosion.


00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.990
But the shock wave took 37 seconds to


00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:20.230
reach


00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.509
>> there. That's amazing.


00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.710
>> Yeah. All right. Um so uh yeah, it it


00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:28.550
does sort of throw into question the


00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:31.590
future of Blue Origin um partnering with


00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.590
NASA for Artimus 3, but uh never write


00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.110
these people off. I've I've discovered


00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.230
>> we're not doing that. Um they will rise


00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.389
phoenix-l like from the ashes but it the


00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.470
question is how soon and what it will do


00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:47.750
to NASA's schedule.


00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:49.590
>> Exactly with Artemis. Yeah.


00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.269
>> More to come on that and you can read


00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.629
about it uh at the conversation website.


00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.710
This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley with


00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.150
Professor Fred Watson.


00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:01.829
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>> Okay, we checked all four systems and


00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:50.550
with the go.


00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:51.910
>> Space Nuts


00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:55.749
>> now. And next story, Fred, uh, has a lot


00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.509
of moving parts as well. Nothing


00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.710
explosive, but uh, we're we're talking


00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.470
what primordial black holes and


00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.390
gravitational microlensing. Is that is


00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:05.270
that


00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:06.549
>> what it's about?


00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.870
>> It it's uh certainly the gravitational


00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.429
microlensing. Uh, what it means for


00:17:11.439 --> 00:17:14.549
primordial black holes, we remains to be


00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.789
seen, but uh, it's a good opportunity to


00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:18.309
talk about it and talk about the latest


00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.549
research on this. So, what's the story?


00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:23.990
Um on the night of the 18th of December


00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.069
2019,


00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.470
uh there was uh a microlensing event


00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.029
observed with a star in the large


00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.430
Melanic cloud, the the the nearest of


00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.630
our sort of largeish galactic neighbors,


00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.590
the um the the the satellite galaxy of


00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:44.789
our Milky Way, 165,000 light years away


00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.909
as the crow flies as far as I remember.


00:17:47.919 --> 00:17:50.789
So um what's a microlensing event? Well,


00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:53.909
something passes in front of a star. Uh,


00:17:53.919 --> 00:17:55.430
you can't actually see the something


00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.669
because it's too faint. You can see the


00:17:57.679 --> 00:18:00.150
light of the star. And you might think


00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:01.830
there's something passing in front of a


00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:04.710
star, it would dim the light of the


00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.029
star. But actually, if the geometry is


00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:08.710
right, in other words, if the if there's


00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:10.390
something that passes between you and


00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.549
the star is far enough away from the


00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.110
star, you get the opposite effect. the


00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:17.510
um distortion of the space around the


00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.549
invisible object uh actually acts as a


00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:23.190
magnifying glass and so you get a


00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.590
brightening of the light of the distant


00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:28.310
star. Uh and this is a phenomenon known


00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:30.549
as gravitational microlensing. It's well


00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.870
established, well observed. Uh there's a


00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:35.830
team in New Zealand which um is very


00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:38.150
very adept at these microlensing


00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:43.510
observations. Uh so um what we see when


00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:45.750
that happens is a rise in the brightness


00:18:45.760 --> 00:18:48.870
of the star and then a fall in the


00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.430
brightness of the background star uh


00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.470
which you we call a excuse me we call a


00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:56.870
light curve. It's the way the light


00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.549
changes over time. You can plot it out


00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.549
as a graph and it's got a very


00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.390
characteristic shape. It's a bit like a


00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.510
a rather elongated volcano. It's got a


00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:09.110
steady rise to a peak and then a rapid


00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:11.669
fall that falls away very like the


00:19:11.679 --> 00:19:14.310
flanks of a a volcano. So that's the


00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:17.909
sort of shape. So this uh was the event


00:19:17.919 --> 00:19:20.150
that was observed on the 18th of


00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.830
December.


00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:23.350
Can't remember which telescope it was


00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:27.270
used. Uh but we have a group of


00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:30.950
Australians who are directly involved


00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:35.430
with this. Uh so they the question is


00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.070
what was the object that passed in front


00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:39.909
of the star?


00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:41.510
>> Guess


00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:43.990
>> maybe a primordial black hole.


00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.909
>> Well that's that's the perhaps the most


00:19:47.919 --> 00:19:52.549
um provocative explanation. Uh they've


00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.830
given it a name this thing. They've


00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:55.669
called it Phoebe which is I think a


00:19:55.679 --> 00:19:59.750
lovely name actually. Um but uh the


00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:05.909
issue is it is kind of too small to be


00:20:05.919 --> 00:20:10.549
anything normal if you put it that way.


00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:15.029
>> Um so what are the possibilities? One is


00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.549
a what we sometimes call a rogue planet


00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.270
or a an orphan planet. Better known


00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:23.110
perhaps as a free floating planet. In


00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:26.070
other words, a planetary sized object.


00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:28.070
maybe something that's been ejected from


00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:31.110
its solar system or something that never


00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:33.430
gained enough mass to become a star and


00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.630
it's just sort of wandering uh through


00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.630
the galaxy. Uh there we know there are


00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.350
many of these things. Uh so that could


00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:44.070
be one of the uh one of the explanations


00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:48.390
for it. But uh the the issue is this


00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:53.110
thing has basically got a very very


00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:56.149
small mass. Uh it's only about three


00:20:56.159 --> 00:20:57.990
times the mass of the moon.


00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.470
>> Oh.


00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.430
>> Uh and that's kind of small for a


00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:06.549
planet. Uh so it suggests it's an object


00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.310
that is, you know, not a dwarf planet or


00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:11.990
sorry, a rogue planet or an orphan


00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.350
planet. Um and it points towards this


00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:19.350
much more exotic notion of a primordial


00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:22.149
black hole. Uh which you've kind of, you


00:21:22.159 --> 00:21:24.070
know, you've already flagged. Uh, and


00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:26.470
that's where it gets really exciting.


00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.830
So, primordial black holes, we've talked


00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:32.070
about them before. They were predicted


00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:36.230
by Steven Hawking. Um, they were


00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.950
predicted by him to have been a


00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.110
byproduct of the big bang. In other


00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:43.990
words, these are things that don't form


00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.549
from collapsing stars like the stellar


00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.390
mass black holes that we see, but from


00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.070
um well, basically um fluctuations in


00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:58.630
the density uh in the first few


00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.110
milliseconds after the big bang, the


00:22:01.120 --> 00:22:03.909
density of that hot medium. Uh, in other


00:22:03.919 --> 00:22:05.830
words, you know, if you could get these


00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:07.430
little spots that collapse


00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.390
instantaneously to become a black hole,


00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.230
what you'll produce in the big bang is


00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.190
not just time and space, but you litter


00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.710
it with these primordial black holes.


00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.990
And I think it's from Hawking's work


00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.149
that we assume that they can be any size


00:22:24.159 --> 00:22:27.909
you like. Um they can be you know


00:22:27.919 --> 00:22:30.470
perhaps uh super massive black holes


00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:31.909
which we know are the centers of


00:22:31.919 --> 00:22:36.230
galaxies uh or smaller than stellar mass


00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.789
black holes. And so by a stellar mass


00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:40.950
black hole we mean one that has a mass


00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:43.510
of about not too different from a star.


00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:45.510
In fact typically about five times the


00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:48.630
mass of the sun. Um and they are thought


00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.789
to have been caused by a star exploding


00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:52.149
at the end of its life. The core


00:22:52.159 --> 00:22:54.310
collapses. uh nothing will stop the


00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:55.909
collapse and it goes into becoming a


00:22:55.919 --> 00:22:58.630
black hole. But for a star to behave


00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.270
like that, it's got to be massive. It's


00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:03.430
got to be at least well five to 10 times


00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.870
the mass of the sun. Um so that does not


00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.669
account for things that are three times


00:23:09.679 --> 00:23:13.029
the mass of the moon. Uh but if you can


00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:16.789
have um if you can have primordial black


00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:21.430
holes of any mass then that makes Phoebe


00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:26.070
a very distinct candidate for a a


00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:28.870
primordial black hole. Um I might


00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.190
mention that the researchers who've done


00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.149
this uh work are at Swimburn University


00:23:34.159 --> 00:23:37.270
in Melbourne uh an university very


00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:40.789
active in its studies of actually most


00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.510
phenomena to do with our galaxy. Uh


00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:45.350
they've got some extremely talented


00:23:45.360 --> 00:23:46.789
scientists there some of whom I know


00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:47.909
quite well.


00:23:47.919 --> 00:23:51.590
>> Um so uh it's it's definitely a


00:23:51.600 --> 00:23:53.750
microlensing event. Something has caused


00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:56.470
this phenomenon. Uh the question is what


00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:57.990
is it?


00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.510
So let me um


00:24:01.520 --> 00:24:05.510
segue if I may to one of the talks at


00:24:05.520 --> 00:24:07.669
the conference that I was at in Germany.


00:24:07.679 --> 00:24:08.070
>> Yeah.


00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:11.430
>> Uh given by people who are well in this


00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.750
case it was a black hole specialist


00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:18.310
>> and he was saying that the the evidence


00:24:18.320 --> 00:24:24.230
for primordial black holes is growing.


00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.470
Uh and this is just one more example of


00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.110
it. this the the example of Phoebe here.


00:24:29.120 --> 00:24:32.070
Uh but he also said he thought this was


00:24:32.080 --> 00:24:36.310
the next big thing in black hole science


00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:40.390
uh to actually determine the reality of


00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.230
primordial black holes whether they are


00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.310
there or whether they're just a a wild


00:24:44.320 --> 00:24:48.470
prediction of of Professor Hawking. Um


00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.590
but he also made the comment the comment


00:24:51.600 --> 00:24:54.789
sorry not the comet he made the comment


00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.549
that uh it was his belief that the next


00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.950
Nobel Prize in astronomy or physics is


00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.029
is the way it goes would be the


00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.029
discovery of a primordial black hole. In


00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.710
other words


00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:11.510
finding absolutely rocksolid evidence


00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:13.830
that primordial black holes exist. Now,


00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:16.230
Phoebe is not that rockolid evidence


00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.950
because we've got multiple theories.


00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.870
>> Uh, yeah, multiple theories. It could


00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.789
even be uh, you know, a a lost satellite


00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:26.870
of a planet that's been chucked out of


00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.149
its solar system.


00:25:28.159 --> 00:25:30.070
>> So, it could be an object like the moon


00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:32.310
or Mercury or something like that.


00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:35.350
>> But that seems unlikely. Um, but and in


00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:38.070
fact, the um the, you know, the the


00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:40.710
primordial mass black hole idea I think


00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.750
is much more interesting. It's one that


00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:46.310
I'm sure will be looked at in detail.


00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:48.230
The problem with these gravitational


00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.549
micro lenting events, Andrew, is you


00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.549
only get one shot at it. You never see


00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.430
the object again. So Phoebe's basically


00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:57.350
never going to be seen again. All we've


00:25:57.360 --> 00:25:59.830
seen is the effect of it passing in


00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:00.870
front of a star.


00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.149
>> Yeah. Um, so, uh, what we've got to look


00:26:04.159 --> 00:26:07.029
for is other perhaps other similar


00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.710
phenomena, uh, or something that is an


00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.950
unequivocally a black hole but has a


00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.789
mass less than the sun. And we did talk


00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.230
about a candidate object uh, before we


00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.789
both went on our various surn. Uh, we


00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.870
did talk about an object like that. I'd


00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:24.310
need to look it up to find out what it


00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:26.630
was. But if, you know, if we can nail


00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.470
one of these things and say that is


00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.029
definitely what it is. Um, in fact, the


00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.830
object we talked about was the result of


00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:35.110
a, I think, a collision that was


00:26:35.120 --> 00:26:37.909
measured with gravitational waves. So,


00:26:37.919 --> 00:26:40.549
all this is perhaps pointing to the idea


00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.549
of primordial mass black holes. Somebody


00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.549
will nail it before too long and they'll


00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:47.269
probably get the Nobel Prize. Well, I


00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.590
suppose we shouldn't be surprised


00:26:49.600 --> 00:26:52.470
because in the past we've had theories


00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.630
about things existing and voila,


00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:57.430
suddenly we find an exoplanet and now we


00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.110
found thousands and thousands of them.


00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:01.029
So, it stands to reason that this is


00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:02.950
just another progression in that regard.


00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:04.549
We're


00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.789
>> the evidence is stacking up. We haven't


00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.750
confirmed one yet, but it sounds like


00:27:09.760 --> 00:27:12.549
it's going to happen. Yeah, I think


00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:14.390
that's right. I think we're on the track


00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:20.230
of uh a whole new regime of physics. And


00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.590
of course, uh primordial black holes are


00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:26.710
one potential candidate for dark matter.


00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:27.110
Mhm.


00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:33.350
>> Um, which was ruled out in the 1990s,


00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:35.590
maybe prematurely. It was ruled out


00:27:35.600 --> 00:27:38.470
because we didn't see a whole lot of


00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.549
these microlending events, which you'd


00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.470
expect to see if there was a lot of


00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.190
primordial mass black holes. Maybe it's


00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:46.710
just that we weren't looking hard enough


00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:47.990
that we missed them.


00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:48.549
>> Maybe.


00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:49.430
>> Um, yeah,


00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.190
>> I never look hard enough for anything.


00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:51.830
No.


00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:54.070
>> Well, well, that's cuz you're a you're a


00:27:54.080 --> 00:27:57.269
male. Yeah, you're a bloke and we don't


00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.669
we we look at something and we just


00:27:59.679 --> 00:28:00.470
don't see it.


00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.430
>> No. No.


00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:06.230
>> Which is, you know, not real good for


00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:07.750
human history because weren't we the


00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:09.269
hunters? Like we were supposed to be


00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.870
able to see stuff that quite


00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.669
>> Oh dear. Uh it's a a really fascinating


00:28:15.679 --> 00:28:18.310
story and I venture to say there'll be


00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:20.070
more on this in the not too distant


00:28:20.080 --> 00:28:21.909
future, but you can read about it uh


00:28:21.919 --> 00:28:23.830
great article about it on the


00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:25.830
universetoday.com


00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:28.230
website. You're listening to and


00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.950
possibly viewing space nuts with Andrew


00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:35.350
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:37.190
>> Roger. Also,


00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.750
>> Space Nuts. Now, final story, Fred,


00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:42.310
intrigues me for one very good reason.


00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:44.230
It's one of the pet topics of our


00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:45.669
audience. We get a lot of questions


00:28:45.679 --> 00:28:50.389
about dark energy. But this s story pers


00:28:50.399 --> 00:28:53.190
the question, did we actually invent


00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:55.750
dark energy for nothing? Why are they


00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:58.230
suggesting that?


00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.909
>> Um,


00:28:59.919 --> 00:29:03.909
yeah, it's all mathematics.


00:29:03.919 --> 00:29:06.950
And I'd like just to refer uh listeners


00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.750
and viewers uh at the outset to a very


00:29:09.760 --> 00:29:14.470
nice article uh on this uh from um our


00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.430
much admired Universe Today uh website


00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.190
that's kind of an old friend of of um of


00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.510
Space Nuts, an article written by Mark


00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:27.110
Thompson uh which really very eloquently


00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:30.149
puts this story into perspective. And


00:29:30.159 --> 00:29:32.149
I'm I'm going to quote Mark. I hope he


00:29:32.159 --> 00:29:34.549
won't mind me doing that. Um it because


00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.909
he he introduces this uh this article by


00:29:37.919 --> 00:29:40.710
saying stand a pencil on its end and


00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.110
mathematically speaking it's perfectly


00:29:43.120 --> 00:29:44.950
balanced. Every force is accounted for


00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.269
and the equations are satisfied. And yet


00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.350
you already know what happens next, the


00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:51.909
slightest disturbance and it topples. A


00:29:51.919 --> 00:29:54.710
solution that exists on paper but can


00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.149
never survive contact with reality. In


00:29:58.159 --> 00:30:01.669
other words, um something that's stable


00:30:01.679 --> 00:30:05.190
but only stable briefly. Uh I think I'm


00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.350
paraphrasing what he's getting at with


00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.430
that. Yeah. Uh but just to read a little


00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.590
bit further uh from Mark's article,


00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:13.269
that's the image Blake Temple, a


00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:14.470
mathematician at the University of


00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:17.110
California, Davis, uses to describe our


00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:19.430
best model of the universe. And it's a


00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.630
deeply uncomfortable one. And so I think


00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.470
the way this story evolves is that yes


00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:28.950
we've uh for 30 years almost 30 years


00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.950
it's 1998


00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.669
when the accelerated expansion of the


00:30:33.679 --> 00:30:35.430
universe was discovered.


00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:36.230
>> Yeah.


00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.630
>> Uh by uh my colleague um Bradmitt and


00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.470
his uh uh his actually competitors over


00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.350
over the Pacific Soul Pul Muta and his


00:30:47.360 --> 00:30:49.830
team. uh they they jointly won the Nobel


00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:53.350
Prize in 2011 for that discovery that


00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:56.470
the um the accelerate the expansion of


00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.590
the universe is accelerating and so um


00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:02.630
the issue was to try and explain that


00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.430
and that's why dark energy was


00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.870
introduced as a as a concept uh an


00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.710
invisible


00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.590
outward pressure um that is part of


00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:16.389
space uh just pushes space and


00:31:16.399 --> 00:31:20.230
everything in it apart. part. Um and so


00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.830
that's where we get our idea of dark


00:31:23.840 --> 00:31:27.669
energy from. But um this um


00:31:27.679 --> 00:31:31.990
mathematician uh Blake Temple has said


00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.389
okay maybe we're taking too simplistic a


00:31:36.399 --> 00:31:41.269
view of all this. Uh and uh I think it's


00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.230
a group of uh of mathematicians led by


00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.710
Dr. Temple. uh they've got a paper in


00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:48.230
the proceedings of the Royal Society.


00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:49.669
You don't get papers in there if they're


00:31:49.679 --> 00:31:51.509
rubbish. So, no.


00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.950
>> Uh there's something to think about


00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.830
there. And they've actually uh


00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:58.549
mathematically demonstrated


00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.669
that our u model of the expansion of the


00:32:03.679 --> 00:32:07.110
universe with dark energy in it is


00:32:07.120 --> 00:32:11.350
unstable. Uh it's something that can't


00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:12.870
survive.


00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.630
Um and that's


00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:21.750
almost uh means that you can rule it out


00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:24.310
uh in the world of physics. Uh if you've


00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:27.190
got a solution that's unstable uh then


00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.950
it shouldn't it shouldn't happen. And so


00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.470
um what u uh Dr. Temple and his


00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:37.110
associates are proposing is that we've


00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:41.190
got it wrong. uh and that uh the model


00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.190
of the universe that we that we have


00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.190
which assumes that matter is basically


00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.950
spread throughout the universe. You know


00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.269
that the universe isotropic. It's the


00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:57.430
same in all directions. Uh is suggesting


00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.669
that that is also unstable.


00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:04.389
um and that really we have to take into


00:33:04.399 --> 00:33:06.710
account the fact that the universe isn't


00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:12.630
the same everywhere. Um it's uh it's I


00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:14.470
can't really go in deeply to the


00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:16.549
mathematics because I'm actually looked


00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:20.630
at the the the original paper. Um and so


00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.269
I haven't followed the mathematical


00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:26.789
um steps in the process. And between you


00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:28.149
and me, Andrew, I probably couldn't


00:33:28.159 --> 00:33:31.350
anyway even if I looked at the paper.


00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:33.990
I do remember what some of the equations


00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.070
that uh that govern this sort of thing


00:33:36.080 --> 00:33:37.909
look like. And I do remember the


00:33:37.919 --> 00:33:41.830
emotional response that my my psyche


00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:44.950
gets to them. But basically um what


00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:49.269
they're saying is that uh


00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.710
that accelerated expansion


00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.509
um is actually part of what Einstein


00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:01.269
suggested in the first place um without


00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:05.909
the need to invoke dark energy. Uh and


00:34:05.919 --> 00:34:09.829
it it's it's it's I'm simplifying I


00:34:09.839 --> 00:34:13.349
guess uh what um Mark the the author of


00:34:13.359 --> 00:34:15.669
this this article has written. Uh but


00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.430
the bottom line is that um our our um


00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.990
view of the universe on its largest


00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:26.869
scale is probably naive. It's probably


00:34:26.879 --> 00:34:29.109
we've perhaps oversimplified it and as a


00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.270
result of that we've come out with the


00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.550
wrong answer. Um, I might just


00:34:34.560 --> 00:34:36.069
>> That's a really big call though, isn't


00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.310
it?


00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.829
>> It's a huge call. Absolutely huge call.


00:34:39.839 --> 00:34:41.589
Uh,


00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:44.629
I I Let me just wind up with the last


00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.909
paragraph that uh


00:34:45.919 --> 00:34:47.990
>> Yeah, I was just looking at that myself


00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.589
>> because that's the Yeah, that Mark


00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:51.270
Thompson's written. I think it really


00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.389
sums it up. Dark energy has never felt


00:34:54.399 --> 00:34:56.470
entirely comfortable to many scientists.


00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.550
Einstein himself introduced something


00:34:58.560 --> 00:34:59.910
very like it, which he called his


00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:02.310
cosmological constant. then subsequently


00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:04.470
called it his biggest blunder. It was


00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.710
quietly resurrected in the 1990s when


00:35:06.720 --> 00:35:08.790
the data demanded it. That's when the


00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.190
accelerated expansion was discovered.


00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:13.109
Now the mathematics might be telling us


00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.589
it was never needed in the first place.


00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:17.829
The universe, it turns out, may be s


00:35:17.839 --> 00:35:21.190
stranger and simpler than we thought,


00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:23.910
only both at the same time. It's a great


00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:25.990
article. I encourage all our listeners


00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:27.990
to have a look at it. Yes, it's at the


00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.910
universitytoday.com


00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.390
website or you can read the paper at the


00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:34.950
proceedings of the Royal Society. But uh


00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:36.950
I dare say we haven't heard the last of


00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.150
this.


00:35:38.160 --> 00:35:39.990
>> Uh and what if what if we have got it


00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.190
wrong? What if dark energy is a fury? Um


00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:45.190
that that's the that's the big question.


00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:48.310
But uh they they seem to be


00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:50.390
>> ing towards the probability that it that


00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.310
it is in fact a fury.


00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.510
>> That that's right. Um, you know, uh,


00:35:57.520 --> 00:36:02.550
I suspect that, um, this theory, uh, if


00:36:02.560 --> 00:36:04.790
you, if you eliminate the need for dark


00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.710
energy, you might well eliminate the


00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:08.790
need for dark matter as well.


00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:11.349
>> Uh, or it might turn out to be


00:36:11.359 --> 00:36:12.950
primordial black holes. Look, we're


00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.310
we've covered two potential uh,


00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.230
solutions to the dark matter problem in


00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:21.270
this in this episode. Uh, nobody can


00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.349
accuse us of not addressing the big


00:36:23.359 --> 00:36:24.390
questions, Andrew.


00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.150
>> Absolutely. We just don't give them the


00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:26.790
big answers.


00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.069
>> We don't give them the answers. No,


00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:28.710
that's right.


00:36:28.720 --> 00:36:30.069
>> Leave that to somebody else


00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:31.030
>> because we don't know.


00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:33.109
>> No, we don't. No, we don't. But, uh, no,


00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.190
fascinating, fascinating story. Couple


00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:38.069
of fascinating stories. Uh, and it all


00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:39.430
started with a big bang called Blue


00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:40.790
Origin. Um,


00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:43.109
>> yes, it did. That's right. It was a huge


00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:43.510
bang.


00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:46.150
>> It was. Uh, that brings us to the end.


00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:48.470
Fred, thank you very much.


00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.310
>> It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to


00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.630
have a chat and uh bring to the


00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:54.470
forefront exactly what's happening in


00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:56.150
the deep depths of the universe.


00:36:56.160 --> 00:36:58.150
>> Indeed. And good to have you back too.


00:36:58.160 --> 00:37:00.150
Thank you. Professor Fred Watson,


00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:01.750
astronomer at large. Uh don't forget to


00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.470
visit us online at our website if you so


00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:06.950
desire. Uh spaceodcast.com.


00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:09.190
You can click on the AMA link at the top


00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:12.630
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00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:14.150
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00:37:14.160 --> 00:37:15.990
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00:37:19.040 --> 00:37:20.870
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00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.270
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00:37:25.520 --> 00:37:27.109
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00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:29.430
useful, unless they're bad. But then


00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.790
again, there are some people who like


00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.310
bad because they want to see what all


00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.950
the fuss is about. Uh but don't do it.


00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:36.230
Don't you want to? I'm not going to tell


00:37:36.240 --> 00:37:38.630
you what to do. Um but anyway, that's


00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:41.190
it. And thanks to Hugh in the studio who


00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:42.630
couldn't be with us today because he's a


00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:44.950
fury. And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks


00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:46.710
for your company on this edition. and


00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:48.790
we'll catch you on the next episode of


00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:50.710
Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:37:50.720 --> 00:37:51.670
>> Space Nuts.


00:37:51.680 --> 00:37:53.750
>> You've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.069
podcast


00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:59.030
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:01.670
iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:04.150
player. You can also stream on demand at


00:38:04.160 --> 00:38:06.950
bites.com. This has been another quality


00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:11.480
podcast production from byes.com.