Shimmering Diamonds, Asteroid Encounters & Unraveling the Dark Ages of the Universe | Space...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is


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the podcast known as Space Nuts. My name


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is Andrew Dunley, your host. It's good


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to be back and thanks to Heidi for


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filling in for the last few weeks. She


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did a fantastic job and I'm surprised I


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got my job back, but uh anyway, that's


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the way it goes. Uh coming up, we are


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going to look at a massive layer of what


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could be diamonds inside the planet


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Mercury. Uh, we'll also be following up


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on the Lucy spacecraft, which is


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basically revealing a conjoined asteroid


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amongst other things, probably other


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asteroids, and a plan to map the dark


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ages of the universe. We'll talk about


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all of that on this episode of Space


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Nuts. 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.


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10 9 Ignition sequence start. Space


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Nuts. 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 space


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notes astronauts reported feels good.


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And joining us to unravel all of that is


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Professor Fred Watson, an astronomer at


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large. Hello, Fred. How you doing,


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Andrew? It's great to see you back.


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Thought it was my front, but yes, I'm


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sorry to sorry I misread your face for


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the back of your head. Sorry.


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Forgetting the with the with the hair


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loss. Look, there's


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really well um we had a fantastic trip


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and I won't bore everyone to death with


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um all the minor details, but we flew


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into Miami eventually. We had a delay,


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so our flight um we couldn't make our


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flight, so we had to do an extra flight


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to Toronto and get a flight to Miami.


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So, we ended up being awake for about 40


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hours, I think it was, by the time we


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landed in Miami. And uh then we went,


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you'll love this. We went to our hotel


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near the port because we were getting on


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a ship and there was a music festival.


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So, get how much sleep we got after


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that. Yeah. Yeah. Um but um yeah, got on


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the ship, did Colombia, did the Panama


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Canal. Gee, that's intriguing. That is


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such an amazing piece of engineering,


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that thing. Uh then we went whipped


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around to


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Guatemala, Costa Rica, Mexico, got off


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in LA, flew to Vegas for a few days and


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um we we went to the sphere. Do you know


00:02:16.959 --> 00:02:20.150
about the sphere at Las Vegas? No, I


00:02:20.160 --> 00:02:22.869
don't think so. It's a big ball. Yes, it


00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:24.869
sounds like that. Yeah. But the outside


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of it um shows images, constant images.


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It's like a round television set if you


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like. Wow. Um but it's a sort of an


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animated um setup, but inside they do


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concerts and they got the Eagles coming


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up uh at the sphere in the um next


00:02:40.720 --> 00:02:42.309
couple of months. I think it's next


00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:46.470
month. Um, and there was a show on uh


00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:50.309
called a postcard from Earth, and you


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sit in what's a giant amphitheater, but


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the screen inside the sphere is all


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around you as far as you can look to the


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right and left in front of you and up


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over your head and behind you. And the


00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:09.270
images make it feel like you're


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actually, you know, the feeling when


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you're in a in a a jet airliner and


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you're coming into land and they move


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and maneuver and just get into position


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to make the final approach. That's what


00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:23.589
it feels like. That's that's the the way


00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:26.149
the images make you feel. You feel like


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you're flying in the open air in in in


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this amphitheater over the earth. the


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the the images are such super high


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definition, they look real. And I took a


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few photos while I was in there and I


00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:40.869
looked at them later and it looked like


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I was actually standing on a


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snow-covered mountaintop looking out


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over the


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mountains, but I was in a chair in a in


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a


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room. Amazing technology and really


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really enjoyable. So that was probably


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my highlight in uh Vegas. Then we flew


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to San Francisco and uh uh we did all


00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:03.030
the the stuff you do in San Francisco


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and everyone knows what that is. Pier 39


00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:08.630
and blah blah blah. Did all that. Um but


00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:10.550
I discovered that they have driverless


00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.509
taxis in San Francisco. You order your


00:04:13.519 --> 00:04:16.469
ride on a map. It just uh on an app. It


00:04:16.479 --> 00:04:17.990
turns up in front of you. You press the


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unlock button on your phone. You get in.


00:04:19.919 --> 00:04:21.830
You press start. Takes you wherever you


00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:24.310
want to go. It I I didn't even know it


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was a thing yet. I knew I thought they


00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.550
were testing them, but as it turns out,


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they are operational in four or five


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major cities in the United States, and


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they work. They work really well. Uh,


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and you know what? High quality


00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.749
vehicles, Jaguars. I was Newly Fred.


00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.790
Yep. But yeah, if if anyone's going to


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um New York, I think they're in San


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Francisco, Portland, maybe Seattle,


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maybe a couple of other places. If


00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:56.030
you're going there, give it a try. It is


00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:59.350
really great fun. Really great fun. So,


00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.909
we went we had a ball. Saw crocodiles in


00:05:01.919 --> 00:05:05.189
Costa Rica. Um, all sorts of stuff. It


00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.110
was a terrific trip. Really, really


00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.469
enjoyed it. So, back down to Earth. Back


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down we are.


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And now you're going out into space with


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the nuts. Indeed. Yes. And our first


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port of call will be Mercury. Uh now


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this story um I I I had a good read


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because you know um if you can get hold


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of some cheap diamonds it's always a


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good thing but uh these ones I imagine


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are hard to get to.


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Yeah that's right. Uh it's it's a story


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that um basically comes from uh a paper


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which is in nature communications. It's


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called a diamondbearing core mantle


00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.430
boundary on Mercury that really tells


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the story. uh and its uh authors are at


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at Chinese and Belgian universities or


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institutions and it's essentially the


00:05:59.039 --> 00:06:03.510
story here Andrew is that um the the the


00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:05.749
data we've got from Mercury is fairly


00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.430
sparse uh because there haven't been


00:06:07.440 --> 00:06:10.230
that many visits but um a spacecraft


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called Messenger


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uh did basically send back some


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extremely interesting data uh which uh


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essentially showed that carbon is very


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abundant on Mercury and in fact they


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reckon there's a there's a crust that is


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um perhaps the remnants of a a crust


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that was made entirely of graphite. Um


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and so uh that mean that means that you


00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.710
know when Mercury is being formed uh its


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core and its magma ocean that's the sort


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of ocean of molten rock that surrounds


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the core which the earth once had uh in


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its era when it had a magma ocean


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they're suggesting uh that that those


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regions of mercury were saturated with


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carbon and so what they've done is


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they've built models of the interior of


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mercury


00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:09.029
with this carbon sort of thrown into the


00:07:09.039 --> 00:07:13.510
mix. And it turns out um that you've got


00:07:13.520 --> 00:07:16.309
some really interesting thermodynamics


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and uh all kinds of


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interesting pressure temperature


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gradients um and maybe uh an influence


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of sulfur as well which is also present.


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Um they basically have worked out from


00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:35.870
these models that because of the


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pressure bearing down on the boundary


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between the the core of of uh mercury


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which is probably molten metal and the


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mantle which is uh sort of semi molten


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rock. The the the layer in between uh is


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carbonri. That is their their


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interpretation. And with these pressures


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and temperatures that carbon simply


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turns into diamond. Uh and so the


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thinking now is that there is a diamond


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layer uh uh at the top of uh of


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Mercury's core. And they also provide


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evidence that um suggests that


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uh that um it's the the different sort


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of um um transmission of temperature


00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:29.029
which we usually call conduction uh of a


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carbonri mantle uh that is sort of


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explaining some of the phenomena that we


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see on the surface of Mercury the


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cratering and possibly even uh ancient


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volcanic activity which might also be


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giving you some evidence of this diamond


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layer. The chances of actually digging


00:08:47.920 --> 00:08:50.870
it up um I think are pretty slender


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because you're talking about something


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that's at least 500 kilometers below the


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surface. I just looked it up. I just


00:08:57.920 --> 00:09:00.470
thinking um if if it would be remotely


00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.110
possible to get near it. No, I don't


00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.910
think so. Um, Mercury is interesting uh


00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:07.910
because um and we've talked about this


00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:10.470
before, but it's got a for its diameter


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which is roughly 5,000 kilometers, it's


00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.389
got um a core which is quite large. It's


00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.710
roughly 4,000 kilometers. So, its core


00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.389
is is much larger compared with the


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diameter of Mercury than the Earth's,


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which is a lot more compact. Uh and the


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thinking has has long been that maybe


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Mercury got like that because uh of a


00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.110
collision perhaps in the early solar


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system that knocked off most of the


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material of the mantle and left not


00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.710
quite a naked core but a core with a


00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:45.269
fairly thin mantle over the top of it.


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And the Mercury could have been a a


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bigger planet at some stage. That's


00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:51.750
that's possible. That's right. That's


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the thinking. uh and that you know one


00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.470
of the reasons why um scientists can


00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:05.509
work on this planet with such um good


00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.670
information in terms of plugging into


00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:09.750
their models so that we can sort of see


00:10:09.760 --> 00:10:11.990
what's happening. One of the reasons for


00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.949
that is that unlike actually most of the


00:10:14.959 --> 00:10:17.750
other planets certainly unlike Venus or


00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:20.310
the other rocky planets I should say um


00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:21.990
Mercury has quite a strong magnetic


00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:23.750
field which was a big surprise when it


00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:25.269
was discovered. I think that might also


00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.430
have been a messenger discovery. So it's


00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.670
got a magnetic field uh and that


00:10:29.680 --> 00:10:32.949
suggests a molten core uh and the


00:10:32.959 --> 00:10:35.910
dynamics seem to suggest that that has


00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:39.990
on top of it a layer of diamond. Wow.


00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:42.710
Now, um I'm sort of getting ahead of


00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:44.710
myself here a bit, but in our next


00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.350
episode, we've got a question uh about


00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.790
fake news in in astronomy and space


00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:53.430
science and there's there's been a few


00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.030
stories over the over the years that


00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:56.470
have popped up and we've got, you know,


00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:58.310
the media gone into a frenzy and it's


00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.190
turned out to be wrong. Um this this


00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.190
story they're they're kind of hedging


00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:04.949
their bets because they're saying maybe,


00:11:04.959 --> 00:11:07.550
might be, could be. They're not saying


00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:09.670
definitely. Well, that's right. That's


00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:11.910
very much the scientific way of doing


00:11:11.920 --> 00:11:16.310
things. Um it's uh and and yes, look


00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.870
this I'm looking at the uh the actual


00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:20.550
paper that has been published. It was


00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:22.590
published on the


00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.949
uh it's actually published quite a while


00:11:24.959 --> 00:11:26.550
ago. That's quite interesting. I didn't


00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:28.790
realize that. It's published last year.


00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:32.630
Uh but um the uh the story has only


00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:34.790
really just emerged that there's there's


00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:36.949
diamonds there.


00:11:36.959 --> 00:11:38.870
Um maybe it's because it's buried so far


00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:40.310
under the surface. Nobody took any


00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.910
notice of it. But yeah, I'm looking at


00:11:41.920 --> 00:11:44.310
the paper which is very much a


00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.790
scientific paper and um has all the


00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:48.630
usual information there. This is not


00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:52.150
fake news. Uh it is some interesting


00:11:52.160 --> 00:11:54.069
theoretical work based on our


00:11:54.079 --> 00:11:56.710
observations of the smallest planets in


00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.870
the solar system which is no less


00:11:58.880 --> 00:12:02.790
interesting for that. Yes. Yeah. it uh


00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:04.710
well the the more we study the more we


00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.110
learn the more we hope to find out about


00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:10.949
how we got here and why etc. So um it


00:12:10.959 --> 00:12:14.870
just adds a bit more relevance to what


00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:17.110
is a big puzzle, a big mystery of of


00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:21.350
existence um entirely. I mean you know


00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.110
existence itself I think I I haven't


00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.110
said this for a long time but existed


00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:29.190
existence itself is a mystery.


00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.310
You call this existing well.


00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.790
Oh existing. Um


00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:38.629
we're walking down the Montipython road


00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.310
now. Yeah. Was that actually Eckles?


00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.670
That was a quote from Eckles in the


00:12:41.680 --> 00:12:46.069
Green show. Yes. Gold eclipse. Right.


00:12:46.079 --> 00:12:47.350
Gee, I haven't thought of them for a


00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.550
long time. Um, yes. Um, really


00:12:50.560 --> 00:12:52.629
interesting and as Fred said, it's in


00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.350
the Nature Communications uh publication


00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.790
or you can find it on daily galaxy.com.


00:12:58.800 --> 00:13:02.230
The G layer of Mercury. This is Space


00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:06.389
Nuts with Andrew Dunley and Fred Watson.


00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.150
Let's take a short break from the show


00:13:08.160 --> 00:13:11.990
to tell you about our sponsor Insta 360.


00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.550
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install.insta360.com. Now back to the


00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:58.790
show. 3 2 1 Space nuts. Now Fred, um it


00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:00.230
sounds like you've already had a


00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.030
conversation about the Lucy mission. Uh


00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:05.110
this is a spacecraft that's heading out


00:17:05.120 --> 00:17:07.510
to the Trojan asteroids to look at


00:17:07.520 --> 00:17:09.510
asteroid, which would be really good


00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:12.230
reason to go. Uh and it's already


00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.189
revealed something unusual. Yes, that's


00:17:15.199 --> 00:17:17.829
right. You you qualify that not unusual


00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.909
because we've seen these before, but


00:17:19.919 --> 00:17:22.549
we've got a nice picture. We do. We've


00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:24.870
got some stunning images uh from the


00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.309
Lucy spacecraft. They were taken uh uh


00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.230
at the beginning of this week, in fact.


00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.830
So, this is hot off the press. Um the


00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:36.470
the backstory is this spacecraft is on


00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.150
its way to survey the Trojan asteroids.


00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:41.990
Exactly as you've said, the groups of


00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.870
asteroids that um orbit in the same


00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.190
orbit as the planet Jupiter, 60 degrees


00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.150
ahead of Jupiter and 60 degrees behind


00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.070
Jupiter. Jupiter, they are known as the


00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:53.909
Greeks and the Trojans. I can't remember


00:17:53.919 --> 00:17:55.669
which is which, but that's that's the


00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:58.870
bottom line.


00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:03.430
But the the interesting aspect of uh of


00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.310
this is that they have basically had a


00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:10.549
flyby of another asteroid on route to


00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.190
the Trojan asteroid belt. And this is


00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.669
one that sits in the main asteroid belt.


00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:17.590
So, it's between the orbits of Mars and


00:18:17.600 --> 00:18:21.029
Jupiter. Uh, and it's an asteroid that


00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:25.270
was not big enough for to be really seen


00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:27.310
in any detail at


00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:29.990
all, excuse me, other than just being a


00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.830
point of light in the from earthly


00:18:32.840 --> 00:18:34.950
telescopes. But we now have these


00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.470
absolutely stunning images of it. And uh


00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.750
it is uh


00:18:40.760 --> 00:18:44.270
surprisingly bigger than uh the


00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:47.990
engineers who were um basically the


00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.990
mission commanders for Lucy than they


00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.870
thought. And so it's too big for the


00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.830
pictures that we had taken. Uh it's


00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:57.990
actually very much the shape I'd guess


00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.310
of a peanut in its shell is I was going


00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.830
to say um yeah potato, but no, you're


00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:06.549
right. It's peanut shaped. Yeah, it's


00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.110
it's it's probably two separate objects


00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:11.669
that have gradually come together and


00:19:11.679 --> 00:19:14.070
merged with landslides at their at their


00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:15.510
middle, the place where they've joined.


00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:18.110
A very common appearance among


00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:20.950
asteroids. And uh yes, you might


00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:24.070
remember um uh that object right at the


00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:25.669
edge of the solar system which was


00:19:25.679 --> 00:19:27.750
called Ultimately for a while and I've


00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:29.350
forgotten what Aracoth that's what it's


00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:32.789
called now. Araicth. Uh that is also


00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.190
very much this sort of structure. Uh


00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.029
it's got craters on it which you expect


00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.270
because these things are constantly or


00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.350
have been bashed over cosmic times by


00:19:41.360 --> 00:19:44.950
other small objects. Uh we think this uh


00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.549
asteroid is is a piece of of another


00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.029
asteroid that was collided by another


00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.549
asteroid something like 150 million


00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.110
years ago. And so it's a remnant from an


00:19:57.120 --> 00:19:59.110
earlier collision. Really interesting


00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:01.430
object. I think the reason why I just


00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.270
wanted to mention it again even though


00:20:03.280 --> 00:20:05.510
we we sort of covered the story last


00:20:05.520 --> 00:20:07.510
week before the images were taken. In


00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:09.029
fact, that's when Heidi and I spoke


00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.230
about it. Um the the really interesting


00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.830
thing and I'm sure this is what is uh


00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:18.630
exciting the uh those engineers that I


00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:19.750
just mentioned and the mission


00:20:19.760 --> 00:20:22.710
scientists who are running Lucy is that


00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:27.430
they used effectively uh an autonomous


00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.510
guidance system uh to point the camera


00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:35.029
uh at uh the asteroid. uh and that


00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.230
worked perfectly and it's going to save


00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.190
them time when they fly by the seven


00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.870
target asteroids in the uh in the Trojan


00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.190
belts uh because it means that they


00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.510
don't need to take images and send them


00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:51.990
back which takes several minutes uh and


00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.909
then sort of point the spacecraft so


00:20:53.919 --> 00:20:55.270
that you've got the images in the


00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:57.110
center. the spacecraft will do it all by


00:20:57.120 --> 00:20:59.750
itself and it was designed to do that.


00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:02.070
But this really confirms very nicely


00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:04.630
that that sort of auton autonomous


00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.549
acquisition of these targets actually


00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.350
works. Um so as as I've said the the


00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:14.470
only big surprise was that um that the


00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.270
uh the asteroid is uh longer than


00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:19.190
expected. It was expected to be a bit


00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.590
more potato shaped in fact as you


00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:23.190
mentioned but as as we said it's more


00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.070
like a peanut. So, it didn't really fit


00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:28.789
entirely into the uh into the field of


00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:30.230
view of the camera, but we've got enough


00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.230
of it to be very very impressed by what


00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.630
we've seen. Somebody needs to give Lucy


00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.430
some basic photography lessons, I guess.


00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.830
Well, yes, but you try it from, you


00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:42.590
know, from deep space and several


00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:44.950
million several tons of millions of


00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.270
kilometers from Earth. It it's actually


00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:50.149
quite a a stunning image that I'm


00:21:50.159 --> 00:21:53.350
looking at. That's off a.com website.


00:21:53.360 --> 00:21:55.669
Yeah, there's a nice Sorry, go ahead.


00:21:55.679 --> 00:21:57.190
No, and you can just see some really


00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.350
fine detail in it of the impact craters


00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:01.830
and and the shape and uh you can you can


00:22:01.840 --> 00:22:03.750
actually I think you can even see where


00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:06.549
it probably joined up. Yes, that little


00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.789
recess or crevice or whatever you want


00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.230
to call it. Um where the two objects


00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.190
probably merged. That's assumption. I


00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.390
think that's right. but with a bit of a


00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.549
ridge around it as well, which is yeah,


00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.630
what you'd find, I think, with with the


00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.350
the motion of of material. I mean, these


00:22:23.360 --> 00:22:26.630
things are not probably not terribly um


00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.510
firmly bound together. Uh they are that


00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:31.590
that will be loose material in the neck


00:22:31.600 --> 00:22:34.710
that joins the two objects which make up


00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.950
the peanut. Um the the um article that


00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.870
I've been looking at is on SC on the Sky


00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.710
Telescope website. I liked it very much


00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.950
because of the of the title which is


00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.510
meet asteroid Donald Johansson long and


00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:50.310
lumpy and that's the other nice aspect


00:22:50.320 --> 00:22:53.830
of this uh of this space craft and this


00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:56.630
space mission which we did mention uh a


00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.270
week or so ago. Uh the asteroid is named


00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:01.510
Donald Johansson who was the person who


00:23:01.520 --> 00:23:03.669
discovered Lucy that homminid fossil


00:23:03.679 --> 00:23:06.230
found in Ethiopia uh after which the


00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.350
spacecraft is named. So, yeah, it's a


00:23:09.360 --> 00:23:12.310
it's a nice a nice little link there.


00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:14.149
And we now know what Donald Johansson


00:23:14.159 --> 00:23:17.390
looks like. Yes. Yes. He's um he's bald,


00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.990
basically. Let's see with that, Andrew.


00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.950
Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Um, it


00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.430
also reminds me that uh Scarlett


00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.750
Johansson, probably not related to um


00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:31.909
Donald, uh, starred in a movie called


00:23:31.919 --> 00:23:35.750
Lucy, which was based on the um the


00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:39.909
origin of the species through the um


00:23:39.919 --> 00:23:42.070
homminid fossil. So, there you are.


00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:44.390
There you go. Very nice. Takes you down


00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.789
a very deep and complicated science


00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:48.710
fiction path, that film. But I love it.


00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.190
I've watched it probably five times.


00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.430
terrific film if you ever get the


00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.470
chance. It's wonder it's an absolute


00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.510
ripper. I I I really like the concept


00:23:59.520 --> 00:24:02.070
and um Morgan Freeman's in it as well.


00:24:02.080 --> 00:24:05.789
So yeah, A-list stars for an Agrade


00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.390
movie. So uh yeah, the Lucy spacecraft.


00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.830
Uh just one more quick question before


00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:12.230
we finish on that. uh which you may have


00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.110
already covered previously, but um what


00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:18.870
what do we do we know much about the um


00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.830
uh the the the asteroids that it's it's


00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:23.830
targeting? Uh that that region, the


00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:25.909
Greeks and the what is it? The Greeks


00:24:25.919 --> 00:24:27.669
and the Romans or whatever they were.


00:24:27.679 --> 00:24:30.070
The Trojans and the Greeks the Romans.


00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:31.269
That's right. Yeah. Greek and the


00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:33.990
Trojans. Yes.


00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.710
Yeah. And and as far as I remember um


00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.029
it's six asteroids from one group and


00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.830
one from the other. They're managing to


00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:43.830
sort of skirt around past Jupiter so


00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:46.630
they can check out whether these two


00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.149
groups are the same. Um, we don't


00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:52.310
actually know much about them. We know,


00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:55.430
you know, from spectroscopy and using


00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.190
infrared filters and things like that to


00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:58.950
look at these objects. We we just see


00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.029
the the light from them rather than the


00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.310
surfaces of them. um uh we we can tell


00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:06.630
that they're made pretty much like the


00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.310
rest of the asteroids in the asteroid


00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:11.350
belt, but there will be differences and


00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:13.909
that's what I think is makes this whole


00:25:13.919 --> 00:25:15.830
experiment very interesting to find out


00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:18.310
what exactly differentiates Trojan


00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:20.549
asteroids from their neighbors in the


00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:24.870
main asteroid belt itself. Um uh and


00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.190
it's true as well that you know their


00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.269
proximity to Jupiter they're they're a


00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.269
long way behind and ahead of Jupiter in


00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.269
its orbit but they're they're following


00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.029
the same path that could have modified


00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.390
their surfaces to some extent. Uh um you


00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.029
know because the Jupiter basks in


00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.110
subatomic particles because of because


00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:45.430
of its magnetic field. Who knows what


00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.669
effects they might have had. Uh no doubt


00:25:47.679 --> 00:25:49.750
we'll find out when uh I think the first


00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:52.230
of the Trojan asteroids is intercepted.


00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.710
I believe in 2027 if I remember. Yes,


00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.630
it's been a long trip this one, but it


00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.549
always is when you go out there. Yeah,


00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.350
that's right. It is. All right. Uh you


00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:03.789
can read up on that one at


00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.390
space.com. This is Space Nuts with


00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.190
Andrew and Fred.


00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.630
Now, a word from our sponsor,


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00:28:47.840 --> 00:28:49.669
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00:28:49.679 --> 00:28:53.269
And I feel space nuts. Our final story


00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.630
today is looking at the dark ages. Um,


00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.149
and we're not talking about nights of


00:28:58.159 --> 00:29:00.950
the round table or anything like that.


00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.590
Um, we are talking about the dark ages


00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:06.870
of the universe when we hadn't even


00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.350
formed any stars as yet. I I'm just


00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:11.350
trying to figure out, Fred, because this


00:29:11.360 --> 00:29:13.909
mission uh, as far as I read was about


00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:16.870
mapping the dark universe, but if you


00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.230
didn't have any stars, you wouldn't be


00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.350
able to see anything to map. Ah, there


00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:23.750
you go. And that's a good point because


00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:25.510
what u you know it's still one of the


00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:29.630
holy grails of uh of astronomy uh


00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:34.710
is looking for the first stars that


00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.870
switched on. So what's sometimes called


00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.830
cosmic dawn uh and that as you've


00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:41.269
exactly as you've said that came


00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.070
immediately after the dark ages. Uh and


00:29:44.080 --> 00:29:46.549
so the first stars to switch on are very


00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:50.389
much the province of big telescopes uh


00:29:50.399 --> 00:29:52.630
like the James Web, although that


00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:55.149
probably is not quite powerful enough to


00:29:55.159 --> 00:29:58.230
penetrate back to when those first stars


00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:02.389
switched on. Um maybe two or 300 million


00:30:02.399 --> 00:30:05.350
years after the Big Bang itself. uh it


00:30:05.360 --> 00:30:07.830
looks back to very much that sort of


00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:09.669
era, but we're still seeing galaxies at


00:30:09.679 --> 00:30:11.750
that at that time when they're looking


00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:14.149
about 300 million years after the Big


00:30:14.159 --> 00:30:18.070
Bang. Um so um we we we we don't yet


00:30:18.080 --> 00:30:20.549
have the visible light telescopes to do


00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.750
that. We will have when the European


00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:26.070
ELT, the extremely large telescope comes


00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:28.789
on stream in 2028, then we'll have a


00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.269
mirror big enough to probably detect the


00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.470
very first stars. It's 39 m in diameter.


00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:36.310
It's going to detect very faint light


00:30:36.320 --> 00:30:39.750
indeed. So that will be um you know the


00:30:39.760 --> 00:30:43.110
time when we do see the first stars. But


00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:46.470
we can infer when those stars switched


00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.110
on by looking at the effect they had on


00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:51.909
their environment. Uh because the the


00:30:51.919 --> 00:30:55.350
first stars uh actually basically


00:30:55.360 --> 00:30:58.710
radiated lots of ultraviolet radiation


00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:03.830
and that affected the um uh the the cold


00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:07.190
hydrogen gas which was basically what


00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.269
the universe was made of then. In in the


00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:10.950
dark ages, the universe was called


00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.510
hydrogen. Uh that was all that there was


00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:16.230
around. Uh and so the first star


00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.750
switching on uh basically changed the


00:31:19.760 --> 00:31:22.950
state of that called hydrogen. And it's


00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.990
that that these mini telescopes will be


00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.990
looking for because if you can do this


00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.909
for the whole sky, uh you know, if you


00:31:33.919 --> 00:31:36.230
if you if you can look for that cold


00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.269
hydrogen signal for the from the whole


00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.070
sky. Uh then you don't actually need a


00:31:42.080 --> 00:31:44.549
giant telescope. Uh there's there's one


00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:47.190
in Western Australia. It's the size of a


00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.830
dining table and it's called edges. And


00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:52.789
a few years ago uh they thought they had


00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.470
seen this signal uh of uh of the first


00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.630
stars. It turned out not to be the case.


00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:01.110
It turned out to be a false alarm. Uh


00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:02.870
but you can tell that something the size


00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:04.710
of a dining table that's a radio


00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.470
telescope believe it or not uh is not it


00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:09.669
doesn't compare with something like the


00:32:09.679 --> 00:32:11.590
parks dish for example not very far from


00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:15.430
where you are now. Yeah. So uh you can


00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.310
do this as long as you've got with a


00:32:18.320 --> 00:32:20.470
small radio telescope as long as you've


00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:24.950
got complete radio silence around you.


00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.870
uh because the signal you're looking for


00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.070
is right in the middle of the FM bad uh


00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:33.070
broadcasts and of course in most of the


00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:35.909
world you you're you're swamped by these


00:32:35.919 --> 00:32:38.310
FM radio signals and if you're trying to


00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:40.710
find a weak signal from the universe in


00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.830
amongst that uh you're in big trouble


00:32:43.840 --> 00:32:45.909
and so the proposal with this and to cut


00:32:45.919 --> 00:32:48.710
to the chase of this story is to mount a


00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.950
fleet of mini satellites uh probably


00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.549
cubats and then basically put them in


00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.070
orbit around the moon so that uh they


00:32:58.080 --> 00:33:00.549
will be uh for part of the time they


00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.630
will be within the moon shadow from the


00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.430
radio contamination that would come from


00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.310
earth. Uh so the dark side of the moon


00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:11.029
is a very very radio quiet place and


00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.389
that's what this study is all about. Uh


00:33:14.399 --> 00:33:17.029
but actually uh capitalizing on that


00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.509
exploiting that to find a very weak


00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.389
radio signal. Well makes sense. I mean,


00:33:22.399 --> 00:33:24.230
if you if you're going through the


00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.990
middle of the FM band, you're going to


00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.509
get all sorts of weird wonderful


00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.710
bullheads. I used to be one of them.


00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.630
Yes.


00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.789
Yeah. Um, no, I love them. But, uh, it's


00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:38.389
that's, you know, the dark side of the


00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:41.750
moon has some has some uses and and


00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:43.909
we've got I think we've got spacecraft


00:33:43.919 --> 00:33:45.430
that have landed there recently and


00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.710
they're trying to figure it all out.


00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:49.350
It's it's I I find the moon fascinating


00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:51.269
in that regard because it's got so you


00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.789
know there's so much difference between


00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:54.950
what we can see and what we can't. Uh


00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.590
even in the terrain it's it's a very


00:33:57.600 --> 00:34:01.909
unusual um astral body, isn't it? It is.


00:34:01.919 --> 00:34:04.470
That's right. Um and it, you know, the


00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:05.830
more we find out about it, the more


00:34:05.840 --> 00:34:07.590
unusual it appears. And you're quite


00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:10.389
right. It's the um is it Changa 4? It's


00:34:10.399 --> 00:34:12.149
one of the Changa series of China


00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.790
spacecraft which is on the on the far


00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:17.750
side of the moon. uh and actually um


00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.909
that communicates with earth


00:34:20.919 --> 00:34:24.069
via a a sort of relay station which is


00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.470
also on the far side of the moon. So


00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.109
there is at least one uh source of


00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.510
contaminating radiation for any radio


00:34:31.520 --> 00:34:33.589
telescope you put up there. But at least


00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.230
that can be switched off. Yeah. Well, if


00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:39.510
they choose use them. Uh yes, indeed.


00:34:39.520 --> 00:34:42.230
All right. Uh that story you can read up


00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:45.430
at daily galaxy.com, but uh you can also


00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:48.149
follow it on several news outlets. Uh


00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:51.510
and uh yes uh hopefully they'll come up


00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:53.669
with some fascinating information


00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.790
eventually. I I think they're still are


00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:57.829
they I think they're in the planning


00:34:57.839 --> 00:34:59.670
phase, aren't they? Or are they further?


00:34:59.680 --> 00:35:02.790
It's a proposal still. Yes. So fingers


00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:04.870
crossed they can find the the money to


00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.750
to send those cube sats up and get that


00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.069
show on the road. Uh speaking of which,


00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.190
this show uh is ending its journey in


00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:15.430
this particular episode. Uh thank you,


00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.750
Fred, as always. Thanks very much,


00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.069
Andrew. Great to see you back. And um um


00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.030
we enjoyed having Heidi very much. Uh


00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:25.190
but it's good to welcome you back uh


00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:27.990
after her soldier on here. Thank you,


00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.750
Fred. I appreciate that. And thanks to


00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.470
Hugh in the studio for um not talking to


00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:35.030
me for the last four or five weeks. That


00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:38.589
was good. No, he's good. He's


00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:40.870
cool. I'm gonna go to hell for that one.


00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.950
Anyway, uh and don't forget to follow us


00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:44.950
online through our website or our social


00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.349
media platforms. Uh always good to get


00:35:47.359 --> 00:35:49.589
your um your feedback. So, keep that


00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.069
coming and we will see you real soon on


00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.550
the very next episode of Space Nuts.


00:35:54.560 --> 00:35:57.829
Until then, bye-bye. Space Nuts. You'll


00:35:57.839 --> 00:36:01.829
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00:36:01.839 --> 00:36:04.870
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00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.320
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