March 17, 2025
Nebulae and Time - Unraveling Cosmic Mysteries: #504 | Space Nuts: Exploring the Cosmos
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In this Q&A episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and astronomer Fred Watson tackle intriguing questions from listeners about bright nebulae, the nature of light, and the mysteries of time. They discuss whether one could see the vibrant colors of nebulae from within, delve into the implications of two arrows of time emerging from quantum systems, and explore the feasibility of life on moons orbiting brown dwarf stars. Join us for a fascinating journey through the cosmos as we unravel these cosmic queries!
Chapters:
(00:00) This is a Q and A edition of Space Nuts
(01:34) Dan from the Gold Coast asks about color effects of telescopes in nebula
(06:28) Stan Vanning: Which nebula is the brightest and most colorful
(09:38) New study suggests opposing arrows of time can theoretically emerge from certain quantum systems
(15:59) Andrew Dunkley with Professor Fred Watson discuss the arrows of time
(16:30) Andrew and Fred answer a question from Rusty in Donnybrook
(16:51) If moon was orbiting the sun without the Earth, they'd be stable
(18:57) Is the sun moon Lagrange point a good place for a habitat
(23:32) Martin Berman Gorvine has a question about brown dwarf stars
(26:49) Could Earth sized moon orbiting brown dwarf star sustain life as we know it
For more Space Nuts, visit www.spacenutspodcast.com (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26119527?utm_source=youtube
00:00 - This is a Q and A edition of Space Nuts
01:34 - Dan from the Gold Coast asks about color effects of telescopes in nebula
06:28 - Stan Vanning: Which nebula is the brightest and most colorful
09:38 - New study suggests opposing arrows of time can theoretically emerge from certain quantum systems
15:59 - Andrew Dunkley with Professor Fred Watson discuss the arrows of time
16:30 - Andrew and Fred answer a question from Rusty in Donnybrook
16:51 - If moon was orbiting the sun without the Earth, they’d be stable
18:57 - Is the sun moon Lagrange point a good place for a habitat
23:32 - Martin Berman Gorvine has a question about brown dwarf stars
26:49 - Could Earth sized moon orbiting brown dwarf star sustain life as we know it
WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en
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hi there thanks for joining us yet again
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on another episode of Space Nuts this is
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a Q&A Edition my name is Andrew Dunley
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your host uh good to have your company
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what we're going to tackle today is
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questions about bright nebula and that's
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a question that comes from Dan and it's
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probably not where you're thinking in
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terms of uh what he might be asking you
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probably don't know what the heck he's
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asking at all but we'll tell you uh also
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uh this one came through Instagram uh
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Renee has sent us an article about light
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traveling in two directions what's that
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about uh Rusty has a three-body problem
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and Martin wants to talk about brown
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dwarf stars and he also wants to tell us
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a poem it's always dangerous but we're
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going to do it here on spice nuts 15
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seconds guidance is internal 10 9
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ignition sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3
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2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts
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astronauts reported feels
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good he's back again for more his name
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is Professor Fred what's an astronomer
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at large hello
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Fred hello
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Andrew glad to be here good to have you
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here yeah is it funny how we always seem
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to wear the same shirts two episodes
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running I don't know how that works yeah
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no idea very strange
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phenomenon um now uh we might as well
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get straight into it and tackle our
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first question which comes from Dan hi
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gentlemen this is Dan from the Gold
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Coast I just wanted to know uh with some
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of the bright kind of more colorful
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nebula uh like the Kina Helix outside
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that kind of stuff
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uh would being inside there could you
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would you be able to actually see all
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those colors or like you know is it kind
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of like once you're in a you know when
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you're up high in the Bog in that it's a
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little less noticeable is that what it's
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like in there or do we not really know
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what it would be like um thanks for
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taking my question love the show and
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thanks for keeping me company on my
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deliveries for work cheers guys nice one
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thank you Dan glad we can keep you
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company um bright nebul the the when
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they're photographed they look
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extraordinary some of the colors are
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amazing um but when you photograph Earth
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it's the same thing but when you're down
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here you
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go is it the same go into a nebula or a
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nebula um I think you would see the
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colors actually so you've got to imagine
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first of all you're not just sitting in
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the middle of a nebula you're probably
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in orbit around a a star on a on a you
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know imaginers on a planet that surround
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a star in one of those nebula now the
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issue uh is this may not happen because
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the we know that those nebula are
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associated with Star forming
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regions so so they're young stars that
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that are in them um and some of those
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young Stars might be too young to have
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mature planets with um intelligent life
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on it but if there was intelligent life
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on the you know the star of a of the
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Planet of the star in a glowing nebula I
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think you'd see the color I think you
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would see a background and it would
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probably predominantly be pink because
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that's the color of excited hydrogen um
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what's exciting it is the ultraviolet
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light being given off by a nearby star
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uh that ultraviolet light will be lethal
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for us anyway
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so I knew there'd be a of some kind yeah
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you might you might not see see it for
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very long but yes I think I think if
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your eye was in there you would see the
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colors that's interesting because maybe
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more subtly than what we see in some of
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the photographs but yeah a lot of those
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photographs have to be enhanced and um
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uh you know to bring out the the detail
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I suppose uh and those photographs have
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improved over time with with technology
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because some of the early photographs of
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U like the Horsehead nebula uh were a
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bit fuzzy but uh if you look at the the
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latest crop of them they are certainly
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high definition yeah that that's right
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that's largely a result of bigger
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telescopes I mean it was um my colleague
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and friend David mein uh who's lives not
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very far from here uh that um Bay View
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uh he uh was the person who first put
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colors into images of the stars using
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predominantly uh photographs they were
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photographs from the Ang Australian
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telescope and the UK Schmid telescope
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that's when I came to Australia to work
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on uh so uh he and I was going to say
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when you talked about color enhancement
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things like that he took extraordinary
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pains to make sure that the colors he
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were presenting he was presenting were
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what your on Ed I would see if you had a
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much bigger telescope um he in fact he
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was obsessive about it uh the color
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balance uh in to to the extent that he
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would get really upset if he went to
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give a talk about these things and the
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uh the video projector that was being
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used was not up to scratch
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um he'd be tinkering with the
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adjustments trying to fix it before the
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talk um and uh so so his images were a
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representation now you're quite right
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that you know when those images came out
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in the 1970s and 80s they were
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mind-blowing nobody had ever seen
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anything like them but we now have uh
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images from much bigger telescopes um
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well we've got images from space
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telescopes which by definition don't
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have the uh the the you know the
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blurring effect of the atmosphere in
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front of them they're they're seeing
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perfect perfect images uh unfettered by
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the atmosphere um and also from the
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ground we're seeing from much bigger
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telescopes now twice as big and that
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that also affects the definition so yes
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the the current crop of images which
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we're getting from the web telescope the
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very large telescope the gmany
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telescopes all of those uh they're they
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are stunning you're absolutely right
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okay question with that notice which
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nebula is the brightest and most
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colorful
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uh um well the I think there are two
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very bright ones the the the probably
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the one that everybody on Earth can see
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because it's right on the celestial
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equator is the irion
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nebula uh and that's visible clearly
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with the naked eye uh big gas cloud in
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the constellation of Orion right just
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below it's actually the um the handle of
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a ran sword that's where it is or the or
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the handle of the saucepan depending on
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which way up you're looking at it yeah
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uh and um the other the Lagoon nebula
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very bright as well that's one of the
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Southern Hemisphere nebulas in the
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southern Milky Way okay really good um
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Dan if you would like to look at some of
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David Ma's uh amazing photography um
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just do a a web search for his name
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because pop up and yeah he he was a real
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Pioneer absolutely yeah very much so and
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he was well
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highly regarded um he he uh won many
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awards including the sort of Nobel Prize
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of Imaging which is the Nell leonnard
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Nelson award uh he um yes he he became
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very famous because of his images being
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so uh you know so widely distributed
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they were sought after for record album
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covers and oh magazine covers and books
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uh and many very eminent astronomers
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today and just two to name uh in fact
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probably n three Dan Joseline
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bbell uh Brian Cox Brian Schmidt uh
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credit David's uh David's photography
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for some of their interest actually
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Joselyn was already well into astronomy
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but she's always had high praise for
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David's photography yeah I'm sure David
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would not be a fan of the cameras on an
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iPhone because I I read an article today
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just to learn a bit more about how to
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use the camera on my phone and um I
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found out that uh because of the
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artificial intelligence that's gr into
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them they they do tend to
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not um produce what is really seen I
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mean to an unated eye it looks like the
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photo that you took but the the way the
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artificial intelligence works it takes a
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very educated guess as to what you're
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photographing and fills in the blanks
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and I thought that is weird what I mean
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that's not how camera should work but
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what's interesting about it is that they
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they question whether or not some of uh
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the photos taken by iPhones would
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actually be legitimate evidence in court
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yeah yeah even though the image is
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obviously what you took a photo of yes
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it's not an image of the it's not the
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photo it's not the it's not a a genuine
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representation of what the thing look
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like yes yeah it's quite incredible
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thanks Dan uh good question and um you
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know keep on track of or vanning or
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whatever it is you
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do 3 2 1 Space Nuts uh now our next
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question sort of came about by accident
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I was just sort of Milling around on the
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interwebs over the weekend and I saw a
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little one and you know the little ones
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that are on your your smart devices I
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thought oh gosh someone sent us a
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message through the spaceup Instagram
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page which I I very rarely look at and
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it was Renee hi Renee and she said I
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found this article um maybe you guys
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could have a talk about it that was the
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question uh the article was about how
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physicists have uncovered evidence of
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two arrows of time emerging from the
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quantum realm now this is getting into
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tricky science Fred but light is always
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an intriguing subject so I thought we
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might have a talk about this
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one yeah it's uh I mean it's time we're
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talking about not light it's actually
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time flowing oh sorry I said light time
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right yeah and um and so you know we the
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conventional view is that there's an
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arrow of time yeah that um that just
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goes one way uh and it's linked with the
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second law of Thermodynamics which is
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all about entropy which is the
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randomness or disorder that you find in
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a system and all of that stuff gets
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mixed up but um we've I mean
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conventional physics has believed that
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the arrow of time only goes one way uh
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but this new paper um it's
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suggesting that in Quantum in the
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quantum world uh there might be another
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one that you can
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basically you know follow time going in
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a different direction it's going the
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other way in other words uh going from
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uh future to past work that one out yeah
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struggling to understand the concept I I
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know there's been a lot of Science
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Fiction about time travel and I know
00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:37.509
there's been
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experimentation
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um yeah yeah like as you said in the
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past traveling through time would
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require more energy than there is in the
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universe yeah that's right that's the
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time War that's right that's the warping
00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:56.110
but but experiments into time um into
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time have shown that um movement does
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.389
disrupt the time space time continum oh
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that's right time time's flexible we
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know that because of Relativity tells us
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that either by things traveling very
00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:10.190
fast or putting it in a gravitational
00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:12.910
field that bends time but this is
00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:15.670
something different the the arrows of
00:12:15.680 --> 00:12:17.949
time um I've got the um university of
00:12:17.959 --> 00:12:20.030
Sur uh which is where this work has been
00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:21.350
done I've got their press release in
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.509
front of me uh and I'm just going to
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.150
read from that because it's a very
00:12:25.160 --> 00:12:27.990
succinct way of expressing it a new
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.710
study reveals that a opposing arrows of
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.350
time can theoretically emerge from
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.910
certain Quantum
00:12:34.920 --> 00:12:37.710
systems uh and there's a quote from Dr
00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.150
Andrea roko who's an associate professor
00:12:41.160 --> 00:12:44.069
in physics and mathematical biology at
00:12:44.079 --> 00:12:48.189
the University of Sur Siri and it says
00:12:48.199 --> 00:12:51.750
uh the quote is one way to explain this
00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:54.150
is when you look at a process like spilt
00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:56.829
milk spreading across a table it's clear
00:12:56.839 --> 00:12:59.189
that time is moving forward but if you
00:12:59.199 --> 00:13:00.790
you want to play that in Reverse like a
00:13:00.800 --> 00:13:02.430
movie you'd immediately know something
00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:03.829
was wrong it would be hard to believe
00:13:03.839 --> 00:13:06.870
milk could just gather back into a glass
00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:08.750
however there are processes such as the
00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:10.949
motion of a pendulum that look just as
00:13:10.959 --> 00:13:14.110
believable in reverse the P the puzzle
00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.470
is that at the most fundamental level
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.269
the laws of physics resemble the
00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.829
pendulum they do not account for
00:13:20.839 --> 00:13:23.710
irreversible processes our findings
00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:25.750
suggest that while our common experience
00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:28.509
tells us that time only moves one way we
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.670
are just unaware that the opposite
00:13:31.680 --> 00:13:35.150
direction would have been equally
00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:38.509
possible gosh I mean that's just hard to
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.470
wrap your head around really it gets
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.310
harder when you look at actually what
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.069
they've done uh and it is all in the
00:13:44.079 --> 00:13:45.790
subatomic world you you're talking about
00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:47.870
Quantum systems and the way they
00:13:47.880 --> 00:13:49.949
interact with their environment it's
00:13:49.959 --> 00:13:51.990
very interesting stuff but it is quite
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.069
um you know it's quite dense um I mean
00:13:56.079 --> 00:13:59.990
the I know I am so that there another
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.870
sentence if I may from the uh University
00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:06.990
of Sur press release uh
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.509
the yeah the system behaved in this is
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.470
the the something that're working on a
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.509
theoretical you know in a theortical
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.069
Quantum environment the system uh
00:14:20.079 --> 00:14:22.430
behaved the same way whether time moved
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:25.590
forwards or backwards and that's saying
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.670
you know it's like a pendulum which can
00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:31.389
you don't it's a difference either way
00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.030
um time moving either way uh the
00:14:34.040 --> 00:14:36.389
discovery provided a mathematical
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.150
foundation for the idea that time
00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:42.310
reversed symmetry still holds in open
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.350
Quantum systems suggesting that times
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:51.990
Arrow may not be as fixed as we
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.870
experience wow uh of course there's a
00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:57.430
lot of work going on in the quantum
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.749
Realm
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:01.030
because they're trying to crack the
00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:03.389
secrets of developing Quantum
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.790
Computing and if they do that it's just
00:15:05.800 --> 00:15:06.790
going to
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:09.550
change it's just going to change
00:15:09.560 --> 00:15:13.069
everything that's right the day May Come
00:15:13.079 --> 00:15:15.350
the day may come where we have
00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.829
um uh quantum computers in the home I
00:15:18.839 --> 00:15:21.509
don't think it'll be soon but you know
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:24.269
computers in households are are so
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.550
common now whereas when I was a kid um
00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:29.470
yeah
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.790
the the the CIO calculator was a new
00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:34.430
thing and when you were a kid the Abacus
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.790
would have been yeah the best thing I
00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.470
had was my slide R slide R yeah yeah
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.110
I've got a soft spot for slide rules
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.550
actually I just found one in a antique
00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.509
shop just a few days ago which is a
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.629
lovely little N 9 in slide Ro look at
00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.870
that in its own box it's been the
00:15:51.880 --> 00:15:53.550
treasured possession of some engineer
00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:56.910
probably yeah it's a very nice little
00:15:56.920 --> 00:15:59.870
purchase AR you wow yeah know what we
00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:01.990
going to pick up in those little um no
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.189
that's right you
00:16:03.199 --> 00:16:05.990
don't um not much more we can say about
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.269
this one but um thank you Renee for um
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:10.910
sort of bringing it to our attention if
00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:14.189
you'd like to read up on the arrows of
00:16:14.199 --> 00:16:18.710
time not light time uh s.
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.389
ac.uk is the site this is Space Nuts
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:27.430
Andrew Dunley here with Professor Fred
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:31.350
Watson and I F Space Nuts okay Fred
00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.790
let's move on to our next question with
00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:37.629
one of our uh regular collaborators uh
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:39.470
and that is
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.829
Rusty good day Fred and Andrew Andrew
00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:44.309
and Fred it's Rusty and Donnybrook been
00:16:44.319 --> 00:16:46.230
a while at this time of the year who
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.110
knows where you two are or I'm sitting
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.910
at home I hope this finds you and I hope
00:16:50.920 --> 00:16:53.870
it finds you well been looking at the
00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:55.710
three body problem of the Earth Moon and
00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.949
Sun in terms of the Grange points in the
00:16:58.959 --> 00:17:00.870
Sun Moon
00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:04.150
system the L1 and L2 points in that Sun
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.750
Moon system lie about 29,000 kilometers
00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:10.189
uh from the center of the moon or about
00:17:10.199 --> 00:17:14.429
27,000 kilomet from the Moon
00:17:14.439 --> 00:17:16.029
surface
00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.270
the if the moon was uh orbiting the Sun
00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:21.309
without the Earth that'd be pretty
00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.630
stable but the moon goes around the
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.909
earth at about with an orbital speed of
00:17:26.919 --> 00:17:29.310
about 1 kilometer a second and the two
00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:31.750
of them travel around the Sun at about
00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.710
30 km/
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:38.909
second so the uh impact on L2 for
00:17:38.919 --> 00:17:42.870
example uh in the Sun Moon system would
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.549
be fairly
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.510
slight uh and the impact of the Earth
00:17:49.520 --> 00:17:52.669
Moon L1 and L2 positions which are about
00:17:52.679 --> 00:17:55.870
4,000 km further out from the
00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.990
Moon uh would be probably the biggest
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.110
effect there they would have the
00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:04.110
distorting effect the question is the
00:18:04.120 --> 00:18:08.149
Sun Moon L2 Point perpetually shaded by
00:18:08.159 --> 00:18:11.110
the body of the Moon would that not be a
00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:15.549
great place to uh to have a
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.950
habitat uh it would shelter it' be
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.710
healing there from solar weather and to
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.470
um to build it lighter say 50% lighter
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.750
probably uh wouldn't that be a great
00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:34.430
place to have a habitat anyway um yeah
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:35.990
I'd love to hear your comments on that
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:38.870
one and um I've really been enjoying the
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.230
show I haven't had a chance to say
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.029
anything cheers thanks Rusty nice to
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.830
hear from you um yes we we're in the
00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.070
country together at the same time for
00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:50.470
for a change but it's only for a short
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.270
only for a short while uh I think I'm
00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:55.750
the next to make a a
00:18:55.760 --> 00:18:59.630
sojourn overseas um Rusty three body
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.870
problem uh talks about the Earth Moon
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.230
and Sun lrange points uh bottom line is
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.270
is the Sun Moon lrange point a good
00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.110
place for a habitat uh and the answer is
00:19:12.120 --> 00:19:15.070
no oh gee I thought it would go the
00:19:15.080 --> 00:19:17.470
other way no and it's and and rust's
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:19.750
already put his finger on it there those
00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:21.590
they don't really exist those agran
00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:23.310
points because they're completely
00:19:23.320 --> 00:19:26.630
unstable um the the the fact you know
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.350
that you've got the Earth right next
00:19:28.360 --> 00:19:29.630
door
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:31.750
uh if the if it was just the Sun and the
00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:34.909
Moon yes that would all be great all all
00:19:34.919 --> 00:19:36.990
would work but you've got this massive
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.430
object the Earth 80 times the mass of
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:40.990
the Moon
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.029
350,000 well 380,000 kilometers away um
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.110
and it basically just disrupts the the
00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:51.750
the Sun Moon uh the grch points so um
00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:54.510
it's it's got really no stability worth
00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:57.470
speaking of um and so it wouldn't be a
00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.830
good place to try and put a spacecraft
00:19:59.840 --> 00:20:02.430
so you do in fact have with the with the
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.750
Sun the Earth and the moon a three body
00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:09.669
problem uh you do yes that's right um it
00:20:09.679 --> 00:20:12.230
is it's a three body problem and the two
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.270
the two absolutely significant bodies in
00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:17.669
that are the Earth and the Sun uh the
00:20:17.679 --> 00:20:20.669
moon you know it it almost doesn't
00:20:20.679 --> 00:20:23.710
register it's possible to Define to
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:25.830
calculate where those LR points would be
00:20:25.840 --> 00:20:28.470
but they're so unstable that there's no
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:29.950
um there's there's no point in trying to
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.990
put something there you you'd constantly
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.669
uh be having to move around to stay in
00:20:35.679 --> 00:20:38.110
the right place I
00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:40.950
imagine uh you that's right you you you
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.070
burn all your fuel up um yeah unless
00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:46.190
you've got a win a Bago I
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.990
mean yeah yeah that would that would
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.789
work they've made their way into space
00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:53.789
although there are uh lrange points that
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.390
we've found very
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.669
advantageous um and and we've got a
00:20:57.679 --> 00:20:59.750
couple of observatories
00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:01.909
yeah get around those points that's
00:21:01.919 --> 00:21:05.390
right that's the um the the sun earth LR
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.630
points where you're right there there's
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.390
observatories at both L1 and L2 l1's
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.390
between the Sun and the Earth uh L2 is
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.950
on the opposite side of the earth from
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.710
the sun a million and a half kilometers
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:19.549
away and that's where the web telescope
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.950
is for example in the Gia spacecraft but
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.710
again you're not staying still they
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.310
still have to maneuver to that's right
00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:28.710
and it's like a spiral movement from
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.830
what I can tell yeah it's um they're
00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:33.669
kind of in orbit around the um around
00:21:33.679 --> 00:21:35.510
the stable point but it's not that
00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:38.149
stable uh you know if you if you get
00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:40.149
tipped off one way you you could run
00:21:40.159 --> 00:21:42.669
away uh so you do need to keep burning
00:21:42.679 --> 00:21:45.190
fuel to keep it uh in the right place
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:46.870
it's called station keeping and I think
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.390
that's the everyday uh you know the
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.230
everyday job of some of these um
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.149
spacecraft drivers if I can call them
00:21:54.159 --> 00:21:59.029
that yeah okay uh so ultimately with a
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.390
an object like James web the fuel's
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.029
going to run out yes that's right and
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:05.710
that's actually what will limit the life
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.269
of the web telescope uh the fuel that
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.510
will keep it in the right place um uh I
00:22:11.520 --> 00:22:12.549
think they've got more than they
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.190
expected to have when they launched it
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.070
they thought they had a 10y year life
00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:17.230
but I think they're now talking about
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.350
more like 20 years so that's really good
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:23.149
wonderful well that in 20 in the 20-year
00:22:23.159 --> 00:22:25.630
LIF span of James Webb the technolog is
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.029
probably going to jump even more yes
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.070
that's there'll be telescopes that will
00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:31.510
be far more Superior which is what
00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:34.390
happened to Hubble basically y although
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.950
it's still doing a fantastic job it is
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:44.269
yeah so Rusty's answer is no o no go um
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:46.590
unfortunately uh although I'm sure the
00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:48.029
day will come where they'll they'll put
00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.149
a habitat out there somewhere and and or
00:22:51.159 --> 00:22:54.149
a space station of some kind and um I
00:22:54.159 --> 00:22:55.990
think Earth orbit would be the logical
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.590
way to go at this point wouldn't
00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:59.789
wouldn't you say
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.110
uh yes sorry do you mean around the Moon
00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:05.430
uh moon orbit yeah moon orbit yeah
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.310
that's right well the the that part of
00:23:07.320 --> 00:23:07.950
the
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.789
timus uh deal is to have the Gateway
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.630
spacecraft which is exactly that it's a
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:14.269
mini space station around in orbit
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.310
around the Moon I don't know whether
00:23:15.320 --> 00:23:16.510
it's ever going to happen but that's
00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:18.630
certainly in the planet yeah you never
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.070
know all right thanks Rusty uh as always
00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:24.750
um deep thought type questions coming
00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:27.870
from you speaking of deep thought our
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:31.230
next and final question comes from
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:36.230
Martin hello space nuts Martin Burman
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.390
gorvine here writer
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.510
extraordinaire in many
00:23:42.520 --> 00:23:47.310
genres recording this in pomac Maryland
00:23:47.320 --> 00:23:53.470
USA although by the time you broadcast
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.990
it I may well have joined you down under
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.470
because because I do not wish to live
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:08.430
under the possible reign of the orange
00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.710
Nero so I have a question about the
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:18.110
brown dwarf stars that you you blos were
00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:21.149
discussing see how I said
00:24:21.159 --> 00:24:24.110
bles
00:24:24.120 --> 00:24:29.269
uh could there be inor
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:35.070
an earth sized Moon of such a brown
00:24:35.080 --> 00:24:41.750
dwarf star circling in orbiting it in a
00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:46.549
possible goldilock Zone and would it
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:49.389
then be possible for this world to
00:24:49.399 --> 00:24:51.549
support earthlike
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:53.830
Life as we know
00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:57.950
it if the answer be yes what would the
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:04.190
brown dwarf star look like in its
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:10.190
sky and I have written a poem about this
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:14.430
possibility inspired by Dr Fred
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:16.190
Watson
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:20.909
and Mr Robbie
00:25:20.919 --> 00:25:25.389
Burns all that I know of a brown dwarf
00:25:25.399 --> 00:25:30.830
star is it can glow but not very far now
00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:34.750
a dart of bronze now a dart of tan
00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:39.630
behold its long fronze the color of bran
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.389
my star the dles the bronze and the
00:25:43.399 --> 00:25:47.870
tan no it's not like a turd it has fun
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.430
and World busy fusing away like the
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:54.990
stars all above it what if circling it
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.590
is a Goldilocks world what a strange
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:02.990
lovely thought I really do love it and
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.510
you can send uh thank you thank you you
00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:09.269
can send the royalties for that to me
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.669
either in pic if the orange Nero has not
00:26:13.679 --> 00:26:17.149
returned or maybe in Duo if he
00:26:17.159 --> 00:26:23.230
has Burman gorvine over and out out oh
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.710
that is prosess absolutely prosess
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:27.190
Mountain thank you I know it's taking me
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.470
a little while to get to that one
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:32.389
because um apparently the Orange nuro is
00:26:32.399 --> 00:26:35.110
um Alive and Kicking so you might look
00:26:35.120 --> 00:26:37.549
out for Martin on the streets of Duo yes
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.590
yes I'll keep an eye out for him and
00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:43.350
you're more than welcome Martin anytime
00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:46.470
anytime um I love that PO that was
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.549
brilliant um very very good so um
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.070
earth-sized
00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:57.190
Moon uh orbiting a brown dwarf star in
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.149
the Goldilocks Zone could it sustain
00:27:01.159 --> 00:27:03.510
Life as We Know
00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:06.230
It uh well it wouldn't be as we know it
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.190
because the um the peak energy output of
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.110
a brown dwarf star is well into the
00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:15.430
infrared aha uh they've got a low
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:16.470
surface
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.110
temperature um I'm just trying to think
00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:23.029
whether they even have a goldilock Zone
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:24.990
uh I guess they must do but it might be
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.630
very close to the surface of the brown
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.870
dwarf because they they they glow just
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.990
by um you know by their
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.190
internal um lowlevel nuclear reactions
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:40.590
so just let's think about so if if
00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:43.110
um I
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:47.830
imag the you know thinking about U Warm
00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:50.870
Bodies like us we
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.549
radiate uh at 10 microns in the infrared
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.190
that's the wavelength that we emit in
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.509
the infrared because of our natural Heat
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.149
heat um and I don't think Brown dwars
00:28:01.159 --> 00:28:02.590
are that far away they're probably a bit
00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:04.830
warmer than that they're probably more
00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:07.750
you know rather warmer than um whatever
00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.310
it is 30 37 degrees Celsius that we we
00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:15.710
have to be um so
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.110
uh would there be a gold loxone I I need
00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:21.190
to check on that
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.430
whether okay good yeah apparently you
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.269
can calculate it so it does have a gold
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.310
Zone although it does there's one
00:28:30.320 --> 00:28:33.110
article I'm reading that says that um
00:28:33.120 --> 00:28:35.070
the first 10 million years of a brown
00:28:35.080 --> 00:28:37.630
dwarf might have a temperature close to
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.590
3,000 Kelvin a reasonable habitable zone
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:45.549
to go with it would have yes yeah um but
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.509
look I haven't got anything in terms of
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.630
yeah that's a young brown dwarf so old
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.230
brown dwarfs probably forget it yeah
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.110
habitable zone is on the surface they do
00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:00.110
have weather the brown draw Stars yeah
00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:03.269
yeah one of my colleagues um Christini
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:05.630
become before he became an expert on
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.630
extra Sol planets used to study Brown
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.190
dwarfs and uh I think one of his papers
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.470
was about the weather on Brown
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.310
dwarfs okay um you there's a graph there
00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:17.750
that gives me an indicator of a
00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:20.389
habitable zone around a brown dwarf but
00:29:20.399 --> 00:29:22.950
I don't understand it it's got all these
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.630
10 to the 5ifth 10 to the 6th numbers
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:27.909
yeah right I better have a look at that
00:29:27.919 --> 00:29:30.350
yeah yeah yeah but uh I suppose the
00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:32.710
answer is yes there's a habitable zone
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.029
under certain circumstances in the early
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.389
life of a brown dwarf but um yeah how do
00:29:37.399 --> 00:29:40.110
you predict what kind of life could be
00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:42.389
sustained yeah certainly you know we're
00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.630
we're very tuned to the wave the
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.509
wavelengths emitted by the sun uh where
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.710
sort of all our vision is predicated
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.470
around um visible light pecking the
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.470
green region of the spectrum I guess
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.789
creature could evolve with infrared
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.509
sensitive eyes um that's not out of the
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.070
question it's not
00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:08.549
impossible have what do
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.710
rattlesnakes yeah this yes there you go
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:16.310
um and so um uh but it would it be Life
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:17.350
as we know it well it might be
00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:19.590
rattlesnakes yeah yeah it could be could
00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:22.310
be yeah it's hard to know but as we
00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:24.269
we've talked about it in the past about
00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.149
uh how different
00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:30.110
stars um would create different kinds of
00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:32.710
habitat like the vegetation would be
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.430
very different if if let's say you had a
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.750
planet around a um I don't know a very
00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:42.909
big bright blue star um everything
00:30:42.919 --> 00:30:45.310
would' be different as Life as we know
00:30:45.320 --> 00:30:47.269
it would not look like that if you went
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.310
into a forest on a planet around a star
00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:50.990
like that it would be a completely
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.269
different kettle of
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.830
leaves would yeah no leaves all the
00:30:56.840 --> 00:30:58.750
colors would be different all the all
00:30:58.760 --> 00:31:00.470
the yeah
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.830
variations uh would be different um and
00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:05.789
because life would have to adapt to a
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.750
completely different light pattern and
00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:11.750
heat pattern than everything else
00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:14.750
radiation Etc so um yeah it's a bit of
00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:16.750
an unknown Martin as to what kind of
00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:20.230
life would exist on a a moon-sized
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.629
planet orbiting a brown dwarf star but
00:31:23.639 --> 00:31:25.710
if it was possible it would not be Life
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.389
as we know it I think that was the basis
00:31:28.399 --> 00:31:29.789
of your question so I think we can give
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.070
you a um a no on that one but not a no
00:31:33.080 --> 00:31:36.509
on life of some other
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.990
kind not as we know
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.190
it James T Kirk would uh probably say
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.789
that too it's life Jim but not as we
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.310
know it no that wasn't Jim that was Dr
00:31:47.320 --> 00:31:49.190
Dr
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.230
thing no um oh oh bones Bon
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.549
bones not as we know it thanks Martin
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:59.310
love the Palm you ought to publish that
00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:00.149
that was
00:32:00.159 --> 00:32:02.590
hilarious uh and we are done don't
00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:04.149
forget to send your questions into us
00:32:04.159 --> 00:32:06.149
via our website because we love to get
00:32:06.159 --> 00:32:08.389
them and we're always looking for more
00:32:08.399 --> 00:32:10.230
and you can do that at SPAC
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.470
nuts. and just click on that little AMA
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.269
thing at the top uh which is where you
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:18.950
send your questions in audio or text
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.830
format and don't forget to tell us who
00:32:20.840 --> 00:32:22.149
you are and where you're from and have a
00:32:22.159 --> 00:32:23.590
look around while you're there visit the
00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:26.470
Space Nuts shop it's always fun uh
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.070
plenty of things to to grab hold of if
00:32:29.080 --> 00:32:31.029
somebody special is having a birthday
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:32.870
soon you might want to pick up a little
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.629
doad for them who knows and thanks as
00:32:35.639 --> 00:32:38.750
always Fred it's been a great pleasure
00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:40.830
good to talk Andrew and um look forward
00:32:40.840 --> 00:32:43.669
to doing it again very good uh we'll see
00:32:43.679 --> 00:32:45.110
you soon Professor Fred Watson
00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:46.629
astronomer at large and thanks to Hugh
00:32:46.639 --> 00:32:48.789
in the studio because um he's always
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:50.789
helpful except today when he he couldn't
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.509
be with us because he was out
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.669
babysitting his brown dwarf and from me
00:32:55.679 --> 00:32:57.470
Andrew Dunley thanks for your company
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:58.669
we'll catch cat you on the very next
00:32:58.679 --> 00:33:01.669
episode of Space Nuts until then bye-bye
00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:04.029
Space Nuts you'll be listening to the
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:06.070
Space Nuts
00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:09.149
podcast available at Apple podcasts
00:33:09.159 --> 00:33:12.110
Spotify ihart radio or your favorite
00:33:12.120 --> 00:33:14.430
podcast player you can also stream on
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.110
demand at bites.com this has been
00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:19.509
another quality podcast production from
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.320
bites.com
Kind: captions
Language: en
00:00:00.799 --> 00:00:02.830
hi there thanks for joining us yet again
00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:04.749
on another episode of Space Nuts this is
00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:08.070
a Q&A Edition my name is Andrew Dunley
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:10.430
your host uh good to have your company
00:00:10.440 --> 00:00:12.350
what we're going to tackle today is
00:00:12.360 --> 00:00:15.470
questions about bright nebula and that's
00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:18.590
a question that comes from Dan and it's
00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.590
probably not where you're thinking in
00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:22.950
terms of uh what he might be asking you
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:24.349
probably don't know what the heck he's
00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.349
asking at all but we'll tell you uh also
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.429
uh this one came through Instagram uh
00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:32.190
Renee has sent us an article about light
00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:35.549
traveling in two directions what's that
00:00:35.559 --> 00:00:38.510
about uh Rusty has a three-body problem
00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.150
and Martin wants to talk about brown
00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:42.910
dwarf stars and he also wants to tell us
00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:44.709
a poem it's always dangerous but we're
00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:48.150
going to do it here on spice nuts 15
00:00:48.160 --> 00:00:52.349
seconds guidance is internal 10 9
00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:57.110
ignition sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3
00:00:57.120 --> 00:01:01.310
2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts
00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:03.310
astronauts reported feels
00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:05.990
good he's back again for more his name
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.149
is Professor Fred what's an astronomer
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:09.630
at large hello
00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:11.710
Fred hello
00:01:11.720 --> 00:01:15.149
Andrew glad to be here good to have you
00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:17.590
here yeah is it funny how we always seem
00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:19.350
to wear the same shirts two episodes
00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:21.910
running I don't know how that works yeah
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.590
no idea very strange
00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:27.550
phenomenon um now uh we might as well
00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.749
get straight into it and tackle our
00:01:30.759 --> 00:01:35.149
first question which comes from Dan hi
00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:37.429
gentlemen this is Dan from the Gold
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:41.350
Coast I just wanted to know uh with some
00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:43.990
of the bright kind of more colorful
00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.870
nebula uh like the Kina Helix outside
00:01:47.880 --> 00:01:50.109
that kind of stuff
00:01:50.119 --> 00:01:53.789
uh would being inside there could you
00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:55.149
would you be able to actually see all
00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.310
those colors or like you know is it kind
00:01:57.320 --> 00:01:59.469
of like once you're in a you know when
00:01:59.479 --> 00:02:02.270
you're up high in the Bog in that it's a
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.149
little less noticeable is that what it's
00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:07.350
like in there or do we not really know
00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:10.430
what it would be like um thanks for
00:02:10.440 --> 00:02:12.910
taking my question love the show and
00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:14.550
thanks for keeping me company on my
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.350
deliveries for work cheers guys nice one
00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:20.229
thank you Dan glad we can keep you
00:02:20.239 --> 00:02:24.030
company um bright nebul the the when
00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:25.869
they're photographed they look
00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:27.990
extraordinary some of the colors are
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.990
amazing um but when you photograph Earth
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:32.790
it's the same thing but when you're down
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.470
here you
00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:40.190
go is it the same go into a nebula or a
00:02:40.200 --> 00:02:42.750
nebula um I think you would see the
00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:46.190
colors actually so you've got to imagine
00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:47.509
first of all you're not just sitting in
00:02:47.519 --> 00:02:49.790
the middle of a nebula you're probably
00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.430
in orbit around a a star on a on a you
00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:55.949
know imaginers on a planet that surround
00:02:55.959 --> 00:02:58.830
a star in one of those nebula now the
00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:04.309
issue uh is this may not happen because
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.070
the we know that those nebula are
00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:09.270
associated with Star forming
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.910
regions so so they're young stars that
00:03:11.920 --> 00:03:14.309
that are in them um and some of those
00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.309
young Stars might be too young to have
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:19.110
mature planets with um intelligent life
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.910
on it but if there was intelligent life
00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:24.110
on the you know the star of a of the
00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:27.110
Planet of the star in a glowing nebula I
00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.869
think you'd see the color I think you
00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:31.470
would see a background and it would
00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:33.190
probably predominantly be pink because
00:03:33.200 --> 00:03:35.670
that's the color of excited hydrogen um
00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.869
what's exciting it is the ultraviolet
00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:41.509
light being given off by a nearby star
00:03:41.519 --> 00:03:43.390
uh that ultraviolet light will be lethal
00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:45.229
for us anyway
00:03:45.239 --> 00:03:48.990
so I knew there'd be a of some kind yeah
00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:50.869
you might you might not see see it for
00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.069
very long but yes I think I think if
00:03:53.079 --> 00:03:55.949
your eye was in there you would see the
00:03:55.959 --> 00:03:58.949
colors that's interesting because maybe
00:03:58.959 --> 00:04:00.509
more subtly than what we see in some of
00:04:00.519 --> 00:04:03.509
the photographs but yeah a lot of those
00:04:03.519 --> 00:04:07.309
photographs have to be enhanced and um
00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:09.990
uh you know to bring out the the detail
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:14.149
I suppose uh and those photographs have
00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.550
improved over time with with technology
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.030
because some of the early photographs of
00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.069
U like the Horsehead nebula uh were a
00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.350
bit fuzzy but uh if you look at the the
00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.070
latest crop of them they are certainly
00:04:27.080 --> 00:04:28.990
high definition yeah that that's right
00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:30.590
that's largely a result of bigger
00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.150
telescopes I mean it was um my colleague
00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:36.510
and friend David mein uh who's lives not
00:04:36.520 --> 00:04:41.189
very far from here uh that um Bay View
00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.070
uh he uh was the person who first put
00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:46.909
colors into images of the stars using
00:04:46.919 --> 00:04:49.350
predominantly uh photographs they were
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:50.830
photographs from the Ang Australian
00:04:50.840 --> 00:04:53.070
telescope and the UK Schmid telescope
00:04:53.080 --> 00:04:54.950
that's when I came to Australia to work
00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:58.870
on uh so uh he and I was going to say
00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:00.710
when you talked about color enhancement
00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.110
things like that he took extraordinary
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.990
pains to make sure that the colors he
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.830
were presenting he was presenting were
00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:11.950
what your on Ed I would see if you had a
00:05:11.960 --> 00:05:15.029
much bigger telescope um he in fact he
00:05:15.039 --> 00:05:17.990
was obsessive about it uh the color
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.670
balance uh in to to the extent that he
00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:22.790
would get really upset if he went to
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.430
give a talk about these things and the
00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:26.990
uh the video projector that was being
00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.590
used was not up to scratch
00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:31.830
um he'd be tinkering with the
00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:34.070
adjustments trying to fix it before the
00:05:34.080 --> 00:05:39.590
talk um and uh so so his images were a
00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.430
representation now you're quite right
00:05:42.440 --> 00:05:44.950
that you know when those images came out
00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:46.710
in the 1970s and 80s they were
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:48.150
mind-blowing nobody had ever seen
00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.950
anything like them but we now have uh
00:05:50.960 --> 00:05:53.390
images from much bigger telescopes um
00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:55.309
well we've got images from space
00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.710
telescopes which by definition don't
00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.510
have the uh the the you know the
00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:03.189
blurring effect of the atmosphere in
00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:05.309
front of them they're they're seeing
00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:09.309
perfect perfect images uh unfettered by
00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.070
the atmosphere um and also from the
00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:14.070
ground we're seeing from much bigger
00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:16.309
telescopes now twice as big and that
00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.870
that also affects the definition so yes
00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:20.710
the the current crop of images which
00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:22.309
we're getting from the web telescope the
00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:23.950
very large telescope the gmany
00:06:23.960 --> 00:06:26.629
telescopes all of those uh they're they
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.670
are stunning you're absolutely right
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:30.430
okay question with that notice which
00:06:30.440 --> 00:06:33.189
nebula is the brightest and most
00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.629
colorful
00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:39.270
uh um well the I think there are two
00:06:39.280 --> 00:06:41.550
very bright ones the the the probably
00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:43.270
the one that everybody on Earth can see
00:06:43.280 --> 00:06:44.710
because it's right on the celestial
00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:46.309
equator is the irion
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.230
nebula uh and that's visible clearly
00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.150
with the naked eye uh big gas cloud in
00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:53.909
the constellation of Orion right just
00:06:53.919 --> 00:06:56.390
below it's actually the um the handle of
00:06:56.400 --> 00:06:59.869
a ran sword that's where it is or the or
00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:02.670
the handle of the saucepan depending on
00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:04.710
which way up you're looking at it yeah
00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.629
uh and um the other the Lagoon nebula
00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:08.909
very bright as well that's one of the
00:07:08.919 --> 00:07:10.510
Southern Hemisphere nebulas in the
00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:14.150
southern Milky Way okay really good um
00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:15.790
Dan if you would like to look at some of
00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:19.270
David Ma's uh amazing photography um
00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:21.830
just do a a web search for his name
00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:25.150
because pop up and yeah he he was a real
00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.749
Pioneer absolutely yeah very much so and
00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:30.070
he was well
00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:34.629
highly regarded um he he uh won many
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.869
awards including the sort of Nobel Prize
00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.150
of Imaging which is the Nell leonnard
00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:44.189
Nelson award uh he um yes he he became
00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.550
very famous because of his images being
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.629
so uh you know so widely distributed
00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.270
they were sought after for record album
00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:55.510
covers and oh magazine covers and books
00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:58.390
uh and many very eminent astronomers
00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:03.629
today and just two to name uh in fact
00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:06.350
probably n three Dan Joseline
00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:11.149
bbell uh Brian Cox Brian Schmidt uh
00:08:11.159 --> 00:08:14.390
credit David's uh David's photography
00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.670
for some of their interest actually
00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:19.149
Joselyn was already well into astronomy
00:08:19.159 --> 00:08:20.670
but she's always had high praise for
00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.469
David's photography yeah I'm sure David
00:08:23.479 --> 00:08:25.270
would not be a fan of the cameras on an
00:08:25.280 --> 00:08:28.469
iPhone because I I read an article today
00:08:28.479 --> 00:08:29.909
just to learn a bit more about how to
00:08:29.919 --> 00:08:32.709
use the camera on my phone and um I
00:08:32.719 --> 00:08:34.829
found out that uh because of the
00:08:34.839 --> 00:08:36.790
artificial intelligence that's gr into
00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:39.790
them they they do tend to
00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:44.550
not um produce what is really seen I
00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.910
mean to an unated eye it looks like the
00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:49.430
photo that you took but the the way the
00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.910
artificial intelligence works it takes a
00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:54.070
very educated guess as to what you're
00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.910
photographing and fills in the blanks
00:08:56.920 --> 00:08:59.910
and I thought that is weird what I mean
00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:02.069
that's not how camera should work but
00:09:02.079 --> 00:09:03.949
what's interesting about it is that they
00:09:03.959 --> 00:09:07.150
they question whether or not some of uh
00:09:07.160 --> 00:09:09.110
the photos taken by iPhones would
00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:11.350
actually be legitimate evidence in court
00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:12.870
yeah yeah even though the image is
00:09:12.880 --> 00:09:15.030
obviously what you took a photo of yes
00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:17.870
it's not an image of the it's not the
00:09:17.880 --> 00:09:20.790
photo it's not the it's not a a genuine
00:09:20.800 --> 00:09:22.470
representation of what the thing look
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.110
like yes yeah it's quite incredible
00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:28.430
thanks Dan uh good question and um you
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.590
know keep on track of or vanning or
00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.269
whatever it is you
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.710
do 3 2 1 Space Nuts uh now our next
00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.870
question sort of came about by accident
00:09:41.880 --> 00:09:44.190
I was just sort of Milling around on the
00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.110
interwebs over the weekend and I saw a
00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:50.069
little one and you know the little ones
00:09:50.079 --> 00:09:52.630
that are on your your smart devices I
00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:54.069
thought oh gosh someone sent us a
00:09:54.079 --> 00:09:56.470
message through the spaceup Instagram
00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:59.750
page which I I very rarely look at and
00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:02.790
it was Renee hi Renee and she said I
00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:04.829
found this article um maybe you guys
00:10:04.839 --> 00:10:06.389
could have a talk about it that was the
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:10.269
question uh the article was about how
00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:13.310
physicists have uncovered evidence of
00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.990
two arrows of time emerging from the
00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.550
quantum realm now this is getting into
00:10:19.560 --> 00:10:22.430
tricky science Fred but light is always
00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.230
an intriguing subject so I thought we
00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.310
might have a talk about this
00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.310
one yeah it's uh I mean it's time we're
00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.350
talking about not light it's actually
00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:35.710
time flowing oh sorry I said light time
00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:41.150
right yeah and um and so you know we the
00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:42.509
conventional view is that there's an
00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:45.910
arrow of time yeah that um that just
00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:49.230
goes one way uh and it's linked with the
00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.030
second law of Thermodynamics which is
00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:52.550
all about entropy which is the
00:10:52.560 --> 00:10:54.710
randomness or disorder that you find in
00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:56.990
a system and all of that stuff gets
00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.910
mixed up but um we've I mean
00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:01.509
conventional physics has believed that
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.150
the arrow of time only goes one way uh
00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:07.629
but this new paper um it's
00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.790
suggesting that in Quantum in the
00:11:10.800 --> 00:11:13.670
quantum world uh there might be another
00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:16.990
one that you can
00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:19.790
basically you know follow time going in
00:11:19.800 --> 00:11:21.550
a different direction it's going the
00:11:21.560 --> 00:11:25.430
other way in other words uh going from
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.430
uh future to past work that one out yeah
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.910
struggling to understand the concept I I
00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:34.150
know there's been a lot of Science
00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:36.350
Fiction about time travel and I know
00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:37.509
there's been
00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:39.110
experimentation
00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.110
um yeah yeah like as you said in the
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.550
past traveling through time would
00:11:45.560 --> 00:11:47.350
require more energy than there is in the
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.790
universe yeah that's right that's the
00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:52.069
time War that's right that's the warping
00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:56.110
but but experiments into time um into
00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.710
time have shown that um movement does
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.389
disrupt the time space time continum oh
00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.949
that's right time time's flexible we
00:12:03.959 --> 00:12:06.350
know that because of Relativity tells us
00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.590
that either by things traveling very
00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:10.190
fast or putting it in a gravitational
00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:12.910
field that bends time but this is
00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:15.670
something different the the arrows of
00:12:15.680 --> 00:12:17.949
time um I've got the um university of
00:12:17.959 --> 00:12:20.030
Sur uh which is where this work has been
00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:21.350
done I've got their press release in
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.509
front of me uh and I'm just going to
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.150
read from that because it's a very
00:12:25.160 --> 00:12:27.990
succinct way of expressing it a new
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.710
study reveals that a opposing arrows of
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.350
time can theoretically emerge from
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.910
certain Quantum
00:12:34.920 --> 00:12:37.710
systems uh and there's a quote from Dr
00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.150
Andrea roko who's an associate professor
00:12:41.160 --> 00:12:44.069
in physics and mathematical biology at
00:12:44.079 --> 00:12:48.189
the University of Sur Siri and it says
00:12:48.199 --> 00:12:51.750
uh the quote is one way to explain this
00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:54.150
is when you look at a process like spilt
00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:56.829
milk spreading across a table it's clear
00:12:56.839 --> 00:12:59.189
that time is moving forward but if you
00:12:59.199 --> 00:13:00.790
you want to play that in Reverse like a
00:13:00.800 --> 00:13:02.430
movie you'd immediately know something
00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:03.829
was wrong it would be hard to believe
00:13:03.839 --> 00:13:06.870
milk could just gather back into a glass
00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:08.750
however there are processes such as the
00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:10.949
motion of a pendulum that look just as
00:13:10.959 --> 00:13:14.110
believable in reverse the P the puzzle
00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.470
is that at the most fundamental level
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.269
the laws of physics resemble the
00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.829
pendulum they do not account for
00:13:20.839 --> 00:13:23.710
irreversible processes our findings
00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:25.750
suggest that while our common experience
00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:28.509
tells us that time only moves one way we
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.670
are just unaware that the opposite
00:13:31.680 --> 00:13:35.150
direction would have been equally
00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:38.509
possible gosh I mean that's just hard to
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.470
wrap your head around really it gets
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.310
harder when you look at actually what
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.069
they've done uh and it is all in the
00:13:44.079 --> 00:13:45.790
subatomic world you you're talking about
00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:47.870
Quantum systems and the way they
00:13:47.880 --> 00:13:49.949
interact with their environment it's
00:13:49.959 --> 00:13:51.990
very interesting stuff but it is quite
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.069
um you know it's quite dense um I mean
00:13:56.079 --> 00:13:59.990
the I know I am so that there another
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.870
sentence if I may from the uh University
00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:06.990
of Sur press release uh
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.509
the yeah the system behaved in this is
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.470
the the something that're working on a
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.509
theoretical you know in a theortical
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.069
Quantum environment the system uh
00:14:20.079 --> 00:14:22.430
behaved the same way whether time moved
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:25.590
forwards or backwards and that's saying
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.670
you know it's like a pendulum which can
00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:31.389
you don't it's a difference either way
00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.030
um time moving either way uh the
00:14:34.040 --> 00:14:36.389
discovery provided a mathematical
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.150
foundation for the idea that time
00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:42.310
reversed symmetry still holds in open
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.350
Quantum systems suggesting that times
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:51.990
Arrow may not be as fixed as we
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.870
experience wow uh of course there's a
00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:57.430
lot of work going on in the quantum
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.749
Realm
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:01.030
because they're trying to crack the
00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:03.389
secrets of developing Quantum
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.790
Computing and if they do that it's just
00:15:05.800 --> 00:15:06.790
going to
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:09.550
change it's just going to change
00:15:09.560 --> 00:15:13.069
everything that's right the day May Come
00:15:13.079 --> 00:15:15.350
the day may come where we have
00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.829
um uh quantum computers in the home I
00:15:18.839 --> 00:15:21.509
don't think it'll be soon but you know
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:24.269
computers in households are are so
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.550
common now whereas when I was a kid um
00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:29.470
yeah
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.790
the the the CIO calculator was a new
00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:34.430
thing and when you were a kid the Abacus
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.790
would have been yeah the best thing I
00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.470
had was my slide R slide R yeah yeah
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.110
I've got a soft spot for slide rules
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.550
actually I just found one in a antique
00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.509
shop just a few days ago which is a
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.629
lovely little N 9 in slide Ro look at
00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.870
that in its own box it's been the
00:15:51.880 --> 00:15:53.550
treasured possession of some engineer
00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:56.910
probably yeah it's a very nice little
00:15:56.920 --> 00:15:59.870
purchase AR you wow yeah know what we
00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:01.990
going to pick up in those little um no
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.189
that's right you
00:16:03.199 --> 00:16:05.990
don't um not much more we can say about
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.269
this one but um thank you Renee for um
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:10.910
sort of bringing it to our attention if
00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:14.189
you'd like to read up on the arrows of
00:16:14.199 --> 00:16:18.710
time not light time uh s.
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.389
ac.uk is the site this is Space Nuts
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:27.430
Andrew Dunley here with Professor Fred
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:31.350
Watson and I F Space Nuts okay Fred
00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.790
let's move on to our next question with
00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:37.629
one of our uh regular collaborators uh
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:39.470
and that is
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.829
Rusty good day Fred and Andrew Andrew
00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:44.309
and Fred it's Rusty and Donnybrook been
00:16:44.319 --> 00:16:46.230
a while at this time of the year who
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.110
knows where you two are or I'm sitting
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.910
at home I hope this finds you and I hope
00:16:50.920 --> 00:16:53.870
it finds you well been looking at the
00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:55.710
three body problem of the Earth Moon and
00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.949
Sun in terms of the Grange points in the
00:16:58.959 --> 00:17:00.870
Sun Moon
00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:04.150
system the L1 and L2 points in that Sun
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.750
Moon system lie about 29,000 kilometers
00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:10.189
uh from the center of the moon or about
00:17:10.199 --> 00:17:14.429
27,000 kilomet from the Moon
00:17:14.439 --> 00:17:16.029
surface
00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.270
the if the moon was uh orbiting the Sun
00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:21.309
without the Earth that'd be pretty
00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.630
stable but the moon goes around the
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.909
earth at about with an orbital speed of
00:17:26.919 --> 00:17:29.310
about 1 kilometer a second and the two
00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:31.750
of them travel around the Sun at about
00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.710
30 km/
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:38.909
second so the uh impact on L2 for
00:17:38.919 --> 00:17:42.870
example uh in the Sun Moon system would
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.549
be fairly
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.510
slight uh and the impact of the Earth
00:17:49.520 --> 00:17:52.669
Moon L1 and L2 positions which are about
00:17:52.679 --> 00:17:55.870
4,000 km further out from the
00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.990
Moon uh would be probably the biggest
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.110
effect there they would have the
00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:04.110
distorting effect the question is the
00:18:04.120 --> 00:18:08.149
Sun Moon L2 Point perpetually shaded by
00:18:08.159 --> 00:18:11.110
the body of the Moon would that not be a
00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:15.549
great place to uh to have a
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.950
habitat uh it would shelter it' be
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.710
healing there from solar weather and to
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.470
um to build it lighter say 50% lighter
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.750
probably uh wouldn't that be a great
00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:34.430
place to have a habitat anyway um yeah
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:35.990
I'd love to hear your comments on that
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:38.870
one and um I've really been enjoying the
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.230
show I haven't had a chance to say
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.029
anything cheers thanks Rusty nice to
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.830
hear from you um yes we we're in the
00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.070
country together at the same time for
00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:50.470
for a change but it's only for a short
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.270
only for a short while uh I think I'm
00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:55.750
the next to make a a
00:18:55.760 --> 00:18:59.630
sojourn overseas um Rusty three body
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.870
problem uh talks about the Earth Moon
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.230
and Sun lrange points uh bottom line is
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.270
is the Sun Moon lrange point a good
00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.110
place for a habitat uh and the answer is
00:19:12.120 --> 00:19:15.070
no oh gee I thought it would go the
00:19:15.080 --> 00:19:17.470
other way no and it's and and rust's
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:19.750
already put his finger on it there those
00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:21.590
they don't really exist those agran
00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:23.310
points because they're completely
00:19:23.320 --> 00:19:26.630
unstable um the the the fact you know
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.350
that you've got the Earth right next
00:19:28.360 --> 00:19:29.630
door
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:31.750
uh if the if it was just the Sun and the
00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:34.909
Moon yes that would all be great all all
00:19:34.919 --> 00:19:36.990
would work but you've got this massive
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.430
object the Earth 80 times the mass of
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:40.990
the Moon
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.029
350,000 well 380,000 kilometers away um
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.110
and it basically just disrupts the the
00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:51.750
the Sun Moon uh the grch points so um
00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:54.510
it's it's got really no stability worth
00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:57.470
speaking of um and so it wouldn't be a
00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.830
good place to try and put a spacecraft
00:19:59.840 --> 00:20:02.430
so you do in fact have with the with the
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.750
Sun the Earth and the moon a three body
00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:09.669
problem uh you do yes that's right um it
00:20:09.679 --> 00:20:12.230
is it's a three body problem and the two
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.270
the two absolutely significant bodies in
00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:17.669
that are the Earth and the Sun uh the
00:20:17.679 --> 00:20:20.669
moon you know it it almost doesn't
00:20:20.679 --> 00:20:23.710
register it's possible to Define to
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:25.830
calculate where those LR points would be
00:20:25.840 --> 00:20:28.470
but they're so unstable that there's no
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:29.950
um there's there's no point in trying to
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.990
put something there you you'd constantly
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.669
uh be having to move around to stay in
00:20:35.679 --> 00:20:38.110
the right place I
00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:40.950
imagine uh you that's right you you you
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.070
burn all your fuel up um yeah unless
00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:46.190
you've got a win a Bago I
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.990
mean yeah yeah that would that would
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.789
work they've made their way into space
00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:53.789
although there are uh lrange points that
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.390
we've found very
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.669
advantageous um and and we've got a
00:20:57.679 --> 00:20:59.750
couple of observatories
00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:01.909
yeah get around those points that's
00:21:01.919 --> 00:21:05.390
right that's the um the the sun earth LR
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.630
points where you're right there there's
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.390
observatories at both L1 and L2 l1's
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.390
between the Sun and the Earth uh L2 is
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.950
on the opposite side of the earth from
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.710
the sun a million and a half kilometers
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:19.549
away and that's where the web telescope
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.950
is for example in the Gia spacecraft but
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.710
again you're not staying still they
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.310
still have to maneuver to that's right
00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:28.710
and it's like a spiral movement from
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.830
what I can tell yeah it's um they're
00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:33.669
kind of in orbit around the um around
00:21:33.679 --> 00:21:35.510
the stable point but it's not that
00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:38.149
stable uh you know if you if you get
00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:40.149
tipped off one way you you could run
00:21:40.159 --> 00:21:42.669
away uh so you do need to keep burning
00:21:42.679 --> 00:21:45.190
fuel to keep it uh in the right place
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:46.870
it's called station keeping and I think
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.390
that's the everyday uh you know the
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.230
everyday job of some of these um
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.149
spacecraft drivers if I can call them
00:21:54.159 --> 00:21:59.029
that yeah okay uh so ultimately with a
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.390
an object like James web the fuel's
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.029
going to run out yes that's right and
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:05.710
that's actually what will limit the life
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.269
of the web telescope uh the fuel that
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.510
will keep it in the right place um uh I
00:22:11.520 --> 00:22:12.549
think they've got more than they
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.190
expected to have when they launched it
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.070
they thought they had a 10y year life
00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:17.230
but I think they're now talking about
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.350
more like 20 years so that's really good
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:23.149
wonderful well that in 20 in the 20-year
00:22:23.159 --> 00:22:25.630
LIF span of James Webb the technolog is
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.029
probably going to jump even more yes
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.070
that's there'll be telescopes that will
00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:31.510
be far more Superior which is what
00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:34.390
happened to Hubble basically y although
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.950
it's still doing a fantastic job it is
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:44.269
yeah so Rusty's answer is no o no go um
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:46.590
unfortunately uh although I'm sure the
00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:48.029
day will come where they'll they'll put
00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.149
a habitat out there somewhere and and or
00:22:51.159 --> 00:22:54.149
a space station of some kind and um I
00:22:54.159 --> 00:22:55.990
think Earth orbit would be the logical
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.590
way to go at this point wouldn't
00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:59.789
wouldn't you say
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.110
uh yes sorry do you mean around the Moon
00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:05.430
uh moon orbit yeah moon orbit yeah
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.310
that's right well the the that part of
00:23:07.320 --> 00:23:07.950
the
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.789
timus uh deal is to have the Gateway
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.630
spacecraft which is exactly that it's a
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:14.269
mini space station around in orbit
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.310
around the Moon I don't know whether
00:23:15.320 --> 00:23:16.510
it's ever going to happen but that's
00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:18.630
certainly in the planet yeah you never
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.070
know all right thanks Rusty uh as always
00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:24.750
um deep thought type questions coming
00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:27.870
from you speaking of deep thought our
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:31.230
next and final question comes from
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:36.230
Martin hello space nuts Martin Burman
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.390
gorvine here writer
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.510
extraordinaire in many
00:23:42.520 --> 00:23:47.310
genres recording this in pomac Maryland
00:23:47.320 --> 00:23:53.470
USA although by the time you broadcast
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.990
it I may well have joined you down under
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.470
because because I do not wish to live
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:08.430
under the possible reign of the orange
00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.710
Nero so I have a question about the
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:18.110
brown dwarf stars that you you blos were
00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:21.149
discussing see how I said
00:24:21.159 --> 00:24:24.110
bles
00:24:24.120 --> 00:24:29.269
uh could there be inor
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:35.070
an earth sized Moon of such a brown
00:24:35.080 --> 00:24:41.750
dwarf star circling in orbiting it in a
00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:46.549
possible goldilock Zone and would it
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:49.389
then be possible for this world to
00:24:49.399 --> 00:24:51.549
support earthlike
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:53.830
Life as we know
00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:57.950
it if the answer be yes what would the
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:04.190
brown dwarf star look like in its
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:10.190
sky and I have written a poem about this
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:14.430
possibility inspired by Dr Fred
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:16.190
Watson
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:20.909
and Mr Robbie
00:25:20.919 --> 00:25:25.389
Burns all that I know of a brown dwarf
00:25:25.399 --> 00:25:30.830
star is it can glow but not very far now
00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:34.750
a dart of bronze now a dart of tan
00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:39.630
behold its long fronze the color of bran
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.389
my star the dles the bronze and the
00:25:43.399 --> 00:25:47.870
tan no it's not like a turd it has fun
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.430
and World busy fusing away like the
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:54.990
stars all above it what if circling it
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.590
is a Goldilocks world what a strange
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:02.990
lovely thought I really do love it and
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.510
you can send uh thank you thank you you
00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:09.269
can send the royalties for that to me
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.669
either in pic if the orange Nero has not
00:26:13.679 --> 00:26:17.149
returned or maybe in Duo if he
00:26:17.159 --> 00:26:23.230
has Burman gorvine over and out out oh
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.710
that is prosess absolutely prosess
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:27.190
Mountain thank you I know it's taking me
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.470
a little while to get to that one
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:32.389
because um apparently the Orange nuro is
00:26:32.399 --> 00:26:35.110
um Alive and Kicking so you might look
00:26:35.120 --> 00:26:37.549
out for Martin on the streets of Duo yes
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.590
yes I'll keep an eye out for him and
00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:43.350
you're more than welcome Martin anytime
00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:46.470
anytime um I love that PO that was
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.549
brilliant um very very good so um
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.070
earth-sized
00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:57.190
Moon uh orbiting a brown dwarf star in
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.149
the Goldilocks Zone could it sustain
00:27:01.159 --> 00:27:03.510
Life as We Know
00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:06.230
It uh well it wouldn't be as we know it
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.190
because the um the peak energy output of
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.110
a brown dwarf star is well into the
00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:15.430
infrared aha uh they've got a low
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:16.470
surface
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.110
temperature um I'm just trying to think
00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:23.029
whether they even have a goldilock Zone
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:24.990
uh I guess they must do but it might be
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.630
very close to the surface of the brown
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.870
dwarf because they they they glow just
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.990
by um you know by their
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.190
internal um lowlevel nuclear reactions
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:40.590
so just let's think about so if if
00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:43.110
um I
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:47.830
imag the you know thinking about U Warm
00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:50.870
Bodies like us we
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.549
radiate uh at 10 microns in the infrared
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.190
that's the wavelength that we emit in
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.509
the infrared because of our natural Heat
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.149
heat um and I don't think Brown dwars
00:28:01.159 --> 00:28:02.590
are that far away they're probably a bit
00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:04.830
warmer than that they're probably more
00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:07.750
you know rather warmer than um whatever
00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.310
it is 30 37 degrees Celsius that we we
00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:15.710
have to be um so
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.110
uh would there be a gold loxone I I need
00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:21.190
to check on that
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.430
whether okay good yeah apparently you
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.269
can calculate it so it does have a gold
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.310
Zone although it does there's one
00:28:30.320 --> 00:28:33.110
article I'm reading that says that um
00:28:33.120 --> 00:28:35.070
the first 10 million years of a brown
00:28:35.080 --> 00:28:37.630
dwarf might have a temperature close to
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.590
3,000 Kelvin a reasonable habitable zone
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:45.549
to go with it would have yes yeah um but
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.509
look I haven't got anything in terms of
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.630
yeah that's a young brown dwarf so old
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.230
brown dwarfs probably forget it yeah
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.110
habitable zone is on the surface they do
00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:00.110
have weather the brown draw Stars yeah
00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:03.269
yeah one of my colleagues um Christini
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:05.630
become before he became an expert on
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.630
extra Sol planets used to study Brown
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.190
dwarfs and uh I think one of his papers
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.470
was about the weather on Brown
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.310
dwarfs okay um you there's a graph there
00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:17.750
that gives me an indicator of a
00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:20.389
habitable zone around a brown dwarf but
00:29:20.399 --> 00:29:22.950
I don't understand it it's got all these
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.630
10 to the 5ifth 10 to the 6th numbers
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:27.909
yeah right I better have a look at that
00:29:27.919 --> 00:29:30.350
yeah yeah yeah but uh I suppose the
00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:32.710
answer is yes there's a habitable zone
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.029
under certain circumstances in the early
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.389
life of a brown dwarf but um yeah how do
00:29:37.399 --> 00:29:40.110
you predict what kind of life could be
00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:42.389
sustained yeah certainly you know we're
00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.630
we're very tuned to the wave the
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.509
wavelengths emitted by the sun uh where
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.710
sort of all our vision is predicated
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.470
around um visible light pecking the
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.470
green region of the spectrum I guess
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.789
creature could evolve with infrared
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.509
sensitive eyes um that's not out of the
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.070
question it's not
00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:08.549
impossible have what do
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.710
rattlesnakes yeah this yes there you go
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:16.310
um and so um uh but it would it be Life
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:17.350
as we know it well it might be
00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:19.590
rattlesnakes yeah yeah it could be could
00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:22.310
be yeah it's hard to know but as we
00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:24.269
we've talked about it in the past about
00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.149
uh how different
00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:30.110
stars um would create different kinds of
00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:32.710
habitat like the vegetation would be
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.430
very different if if let's say you had a
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.750
planet around a um I don't know a very
00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:42.909
big bright blue star um everything
00:30:42.919 --> 00:30:45.310
would' be different as Life as we know
00:30:45.320 --> 00:30:47.269
it would not look like that if you went
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.310
into a forest on a planet around a star
00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:50.990
like that it would be a completely
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.269
different kettle of
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.830
leaves would yeah no leaves all the
00:30:56.840 --> 00:30:58.750
colors would be different all the all
00:30:58.760 --> 00:31:00.470
the yeah
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.830
variations uh would be different um and
00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:05.789
because life would have to adapt to a
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.750
completely different light pattern and
00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:11.750
heat pattern than everything else
00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:14.750
radiation Etc so um yeah it's a bit of
00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:16.750
an unknown Martin as to what kind of
00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:20.230
life would exist on a a moon-sized
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.629
planet orbiting a brown dwarf star but
00:31:23.639 --> 00:31:25.710
if it was possible it would not be Life
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.389
as we know it I think that was the basis
00:31:28.399 --> 00:31:29.789
of your question so I think we can give
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.070
you a um a no on that one but not a no
00:31:33.080 --> 00:31:36.509
on life of some other
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.990
kind not as we know
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.190
it James T Kirk would uh probably say
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.789
that too it's life Jim but not as we
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.310
know it no that wasn't Jim that was Dr
00:31:47.320 --> 00:31:49.190
Dr
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.230
thing no um oh oh bones Bon
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.549
bones not as we know it thanks Martin
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:59.310
love the Palm you ought to publish that
00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:00.149
that was
00:32:00.159 --> 00:32:02.590
hilarious uh and we are done don't
00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:04.149
forget to send your questions into us
00:32:04.159 --> 00:32:06.149
via our website because we love to get
00:32:06.159 --> 00:32:08.389
them and we're always looking for more
00:32:08.399 --> 00:32:10.230
and you can do that at SPAC
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.470
nuts. and just click on that little AMA
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.269
thing at the top uh which is where you
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:18.950
send your questions in audio or text
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.830
format and don't forget to tell us who
00:32:20.840 --> 00:32:22.149
you are and where you're from and have a
00:32:22.159 --> 00:32:23.590
look around while you're there visit the
00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:26.470
Space Nuts shop it's always fun uh
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.070
plenty of things to to grab hold of if
00:32:29.080 --> 00:32:31.029
somebody special is having a birthday
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:32.870
soon you might want to pick up a little
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.629
doad for them who knows and thanks as
00:32:35.639 --> 00:32:38.750
always Fred it's been a great pleasure
00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:40.830
good to talk Andrew and um look forward
00:32:40.840 --> 00:32:43.669
to doing it again very good uh we'll see
00:32:43.679 --> 00:32:45.110
you soon Professor Fred Watson
00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:46.629
astronomer at large and thanks to Hugh
00:32:46.639 --> 00:32:48.789
in the studio because um he's always
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:50.789
helpful except today when he he couldn't
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.509
be with us because he was out
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.669
babysitting his brown dwarf and from me
00:32:55.679 --> 00:32:57.470
Andrew Dunley thanks for your company
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:58.669
we'll catch cat you on the very next
00:32:58.679 --> 00:33:01.669
episode of Space Nuts until then bye-bye
00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:04.029
Space Nuts you'll be listening to the
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:06.070
Space Nuts
00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:09.149
podcast available at Apple podcasts
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00:33:12.120 --> 00:33:14.430
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00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:19.509
another quality podcast production from
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.320
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