Navigating the Cosmic Questions: Gravity Assists, Neutrinos, and Time Dilation Explained | Space...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is


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Space Nuts, a Q&A edition, and we've got


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a bunch of questions to get through. Uh


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Larry wants to know about orbital


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velocity, and his question is quite


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timely because he brings up the Bey


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Columbo mission and we have an update on


00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:19.510
that. Uh Eduardo is asking us about


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neutrinos. In fact, these last three


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questions dovetail into each other. So,


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Eduardo about neutrinos. Uh Schumo is


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asking about interstellar beacons that


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might be powered by ut neutrinos and uh


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Colin is asking about time dilation. So


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plenty to talk about on this Q&A edition


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of Space Nuts. Stick around.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts.


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Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And he's back again to solve all those


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riddles for us. It's Professor Fred


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Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,


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Fred.


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>> How are you doing, Andrew?


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>> I'm doing well. You looking rather um um


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cold.


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>> Yes, maybe. Yeah, we we we had a really


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good warm spell there for a while and


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then it just peted out and we're back to


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some quite chilly weather.


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>> But by the time this podcast comes out,


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it could be back to warm again. it, you


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know, it's it's it's that time of year


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where we got the tugof-war between


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winter trying to hang on and spring


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trying to take over. And so you get uh


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you get a little warm snap and then it's


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cold again and then you get another warm


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snap and then one day it just stays warm


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and then it gets hot hot hot and then


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the opposite happens going into autumn


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or fall or whatever wherever you're from


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and however you say it. But um yeah,


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right now we're into spring. Um very


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windy weather this time of year out our


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way. Nothing to do with actual wind.


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It's just so many people sneezing. You


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just, you know, volatile environment.


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>> Yeah. Did you um you were going to try


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and get some shots of uh of pollen?


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>> I did try and so far I've failed.


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>> Okay.


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>> I haven't been. Uh but see, last time I


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got the pollen corona photo, I was using


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an older model phone


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>> and I've got a feeling that the new


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phone compensates and actually stops me


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from getting the shot. But yeah, but


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I'll give it another try. Uh I might


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have been too early cuz the best time is


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midafter afternoon, isn't it?


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>> Probably. Yeah, you should you should be


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able to see it with a naked eye and that


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should tell you what you you know what


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your um phone is likely to pick up.


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>> A good friend of mine once told me


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though never to look at the sun.


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>> Uh indeed I tell people that all the


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time. But that's why what you do is you


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get the sun behind a wall or a building


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or something just enough that you can


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see the immediate sky around it. And


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that's where you might see these color


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bands. And just in case any of our


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listeners wonder what we're talking


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about, um pollen uh particles in the


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atmosphere, because they're many, many


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millions of them and they're all of a


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uniform size, they have an effect on


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light called defraction. Uh and that


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means that you can get colored rings


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around the sun caused by the defracting


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effect of these pollen uh particles. And


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that's what Andrew's looked for. I've


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seen them in Kuna Baraban on occasion


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when I used to live out there. We tend


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not to see them in Sydney because the


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air is probably not clear enough


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>> because there's more pollution in the


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air than


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>> than pollen. There is pollen


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>> pollen. Yeah.


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>> Yeah. It's quite spectacular though. Uh


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not


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>> I think we we talked about it on an


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episode and I said, "Okay, um challenge


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accepted and went outside, took one


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photo and got it."


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>> Yes. Yes, that's right. Proving more


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difficult this time. Let's get into our


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questions. Uh, this first one comes from


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Larry.


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>> Hello, Fred and Andrew.


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This is Larry from York, Nebraska. That


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is


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I've been listening to your podcast


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almost continually for months.


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heard an old edition talking about


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uh


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using the gravitational boost around


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planets


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particularly Pepe Columbbo.


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Fred said that uh had to use uh nine


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boosts to get the BP Columbbo spacecraft


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to speed up to the speed of Mercury.


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However, from previous podcast, it seems


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the more you speed up the orbable


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velocity,


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the further away from the sun you get.


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So, don't you have to use the


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gravitational wells to slow down


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to get to Mercury? Cuz Mercury's orbital


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velocity should be a whole lot less than


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Earth.


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Thank you.


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>> Thank you, Larry. And uh hope all is


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well in wonderful Nebraska. Um yeah, he


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brings up an interesting point. Uh maybe


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we can discuss that after we break the


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uh the news about uh Bey Columbo, the


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Bey Columbo mission to Mercury. And we


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did talk about how it had to do u quite


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a bit of maneuvering um to to achieve


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the velocity it required. You might


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remind us about that, Fred, and then


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tell us what's um what's happening now.


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Uh yes. So, uh, Beepy Columbbo, a a


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joint, um, uh, issa Jaxa mission, I


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think, Japanese aerospace exploration


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agency. Um, eight years it's been on its


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way so far. And there have been nine, I


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think I'm right, nine gravity assists.


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One of Earth, two of Venus, and six of


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Mercury itself.


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>> Yeah. Uh and the reason why it's in the


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news at the moment is because um the


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spacecraft has separated from its um


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something called the the MTM


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which is the


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uh Mercury transfer module. In other


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words, it's almost like a service module


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that's been uh attached to the


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spacecraft. It's got solar panels. It's


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got um you know various uh um uh feeds


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uh on on board for the the requisites of


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the spacecraft itself that has now


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basically been jettisoned. Uh and so Bey


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Columbo is on its own uh as it spirals


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down towards the planet Mercury to


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eventually go into orbit around Mercury.


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>> And seeing they've now separated, the


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lawyers will be deciding who gets what


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assets,


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>> who gets what. Yeah. Yeah,


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indeed. That's right. Um, but let's just


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go to um to Larry's question. Uh, and


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Larry's


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you're absolutely right. This is


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something I think it does all our heads


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in that if you if you speed if you've


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got a spacecraft in orbit around


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something and you speed it up, what


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happens is it goes to a higher orbit,


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but it slows down.


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Um and that's the bottom line and uh the


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reverse is true with Bey Columbo going


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to Mercury. So um remembering that the


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Earth's orbital velocity around the sun


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is 30 kilometers/s.


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Uh Mercury has an orbital velocity


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which is in the region of 50


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kilometers/s. Wow. uh because it's


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nearer the sun, it needs a higher


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velocity to stop it from falling into


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the sun.


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>> So 50 km/s is its speed. So in that


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respect, Bey Columbo is catching up uh


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in terms of speed with uh with Mercury.


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But to do that, you slow it down. you


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you have to shed the earth's orbital


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velocity to push the spacecraft in


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towards the sun which speeds it up uh so


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that it would be traveling faster than


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the earth if I can put it that way. It's


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all about the balance between gravity


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and velocity. Uh I'm probably not making


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this sound very clear, but the bottom


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line is that it's taken those uh nine


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gravity assists to get from 30


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kilometers/s going around the Earth to


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roughly 50 kilometers/s


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average speed of Mercury. I think it


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gets significantly higher and lower


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because Mercury's got quite an


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elliptical orbit.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Um believe it maximum is 59 kilometers/s


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when it's closest to the sun. So you're


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talking about a significant increase in


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velocity which you achieve by slowing


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the spacecraft down so it falls in


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towards the inner solar system.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Does that make sense?


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>> Yeah. I I think we talked about uh when


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when this first came up we talked about


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how much more difficult it is to go


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towards the center of our solar system


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than it is to go outwards.


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>> In that regard it is. That's correct.


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Yes.


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>> Yeah. So there's a a lot of um


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mathematicians at work trying to figure


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this one out. Um uh you know taking into


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account orbital mechanics and the uh


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everything that goes into it. Uh it's


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it's quite an amazing feat to be honest


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to uh to come up with this and and yet


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you think a jump of only 20 kilometers/


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second 30 to 50 wouldn't it doesn't


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sound all that difficult but when you


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look at what they've actually had to do


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to achieve it


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>> that's right


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>> quite extraordinary.


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>> It is. It's it's it is a significant


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amount. Well, when you think about it,


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you know, you're


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like that 20 kilometers/s


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uh is


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it's I think it was about the same


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orbital speed that um New Horizons was


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launched at when it was one of the


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fastest spacecraft ever launched. I


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think it was 23 kilometers/s it had.


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>> So, it's a not insignificant jump in


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velocity.


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>> It just takes a lot of maneuvering to


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make it happen.


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>> Indeed. That's right. There you go,


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Larry explained and um still scratching


00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.110
my head.


00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.509
>> Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the question.


00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.750
Um this is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:35.509
and Professor Fred Watson. It's a Q&A


00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.910
edition.


00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:39.910
I believe that this nation should commit


00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:43.509
itself to achieving the goal before this


00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.150
decade is out of landing a man on the


00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:48.230
moon and returning him safely to the


00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:48.710
Earth.


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>> These nuts. Now, next question comes


00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.470
from Edo. I hope I'm pronouncing that


00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.910
correctly. Um he says given that


00:10:57.920 --> 00:11:00.310
neutrinos are the second most abundant


00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.509
subatomic particle just after photons.


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Uh but contrary to photons they don't


00:11:06.079 --> 00:11:09.030
seem to interact that much with matter.


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Do black holes swallow neutrinos or do


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they just pass through them? Are


00:11:14.959 --> 00:11:18.790
nutrinos affected by gravity at all?


00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:22.790
Um so yes they are. Uh and I mean in the


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you know light is as well of course


00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:26.150
light that's the thing about a black


00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:29.670
hole. It um uh it won't even allow the


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release of light beyond the event


00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:34.710
horizon. Uh and the same is true with


00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.430
nutrinos. So nutrinos


00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.590
they can't pass through a black hole. Uh


00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.350
if they cross the event horizon they're


00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:44.790
trapped uh just like particles of light.


00:11:44.800 --> 00:11:50.310
Uh um it's uh it is a bit weird with


00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.350
nutrinos cuz they're they exactly um as


00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.509
Eduardo says they they pass through


00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:57.910
normal matter very easily. They don't


00:11:57.920 --> 00:12:00.470
interact much with normal matter. Uh but


00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:02.710
nevertheless uh gravity and the


00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:04.389
curvature of spaceime which is really


00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:05.670
what we're talking about with a black


00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:07.990
hole. Uh they affect them just the same


00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.710
as everything else.


00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:12.310
>> Simple as that. It wouldn't be too much


00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.350
that would not be affected by gravity.


00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.230
Yes, that's right. Uh we think um dark


00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:19.829
matter is too. Well, we know dark matter


00:12:19.839 --> 00:12:21.030
is. That's the only way we know it


00:12:21.040 --> 00:12:22.389
exists. So, yes.


00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.230
>> Well, it seems to clump in higher


00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.470
gravitational fields, doesn't it?


00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:27.509
>> That's correct. Yes.


00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.030
>> Um even though we don't really


00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:31.030
understand it, although we do think they


00:12:31.040 --> 00:12:34.310
may have identified it recently. Uh I


00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.629
think we talked about that last episode.


00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.509
>> So, um yeah, we're slowly chipping away


00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.750
at the mystery of of dark matter


00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:44.470
>> hopefully. So he said that um nutrinos


00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.629
are the second most abundant subatomic


00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.389
particle. Is that is that right?


00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.389
>> Um I'd need to check that but I think


00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.750
it's probably right. Yes. Uh I think I


00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:56.629
think that's a a correct statement. Do


00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.069
we know what they're supposed to do?


00:12:58.079 --> 00:13:00.389
What's their function?


00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.110
Well, yeah. They're they're um byproduct


00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:06.710
of uh of nuclear reactions. They and


00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:10.230
they are prolific as as as Eduardo


00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:14.310
suggested. So um with um for example the


00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.150
nuclear reactions that power the sun the


00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:20.069
the uh the um what's it called the


00:13:20.079 --> 00:13:21.910
fusion reactions


00:13:21.920 --> 00:13:24.470
>> uh it's got name proton proton reaction


00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.150
there's several different ones anyway


00:13:26.160 --> 00:13:29.430
they not only produce uh helium from


00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.829
hydrogen uh but the energy that they


00:13:31.839 --> 00:13:34.550
produce uh is in gamma rays and in


00:13:34.560 --> 00:13:36.470
neutrinos as well.


00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:40.389
>> There you go. Fascinating. Um, Eduardo,


00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.069
that's um about all we can tell you


00:13:42.079 --> 00:13:43.509
about that, but thanks for the question.


00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.110
Lovely to hear from you. We're whipping


00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.389
through them, Fred. We are. Yeah.


00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.870
>> Uh, this is Space Nuts, a Q&A edition


00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:52.949
with Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred


00:13:52.959 --> 00:13:56.629
Watson.


00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.430
>> 3 2 1


00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:03.110
>> Space Nuts. Our next question comes from


00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.750
Schumo who says, "Hi, Fred and Andrew.


00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:08.069
Another alien communication question.


00:14:08.079 --> 00:14:10.230
SETI understandably concentrates on


00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.710
radio and optical signals but are we


00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:16.550
being too anthrop I can't say it


00:14:16.560 --> 00:14:19.189
anthroposentric


00:14:19.199 --> 00:14:21.670
about the carrier uh could an advanced


00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:24.389
civilization use high energy gamma rays


00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.189
or even neutrinos as an interstellar


00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:29.430
beacon encoding information in the


00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.829
timing or energy of individual events.


00:14:31.839 --> 00:14:33.829
For example, repeated gammaray or


00:14:33.839 --> 00:14:36.389
neutrino events from the same point in


00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.710
the sky following the prime numbers


00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.790
would be very difficult to explain


00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:44.150
naturally given that we're all uh we all


00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:46.629
uh we already have gammaray and neutrino


00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.470
observatories watching the sky. Has


00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.470
anyone systematically searched their


00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.230
data for mathematically structured


00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.030
patterns that might be artificial? That


00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:57.189
comes from Schumo in Oxford in the UK.


00:14:57.199 --> 00:14:59.350
That's a really good question. Like


00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.750
that's out of the box, isn't it?


00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:06.230
Um it it is a good question and in a way


00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.990
um the answer lies in the fact that uh


00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.189
when gammaray bursts were first detected


00:15:13.199 --> 00:15:15.269
uh which you'll remember were detected


00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.069
by spacecraft satellites that had been


00:15:18.079 --> 00:15:19.910
launched specifically to look for


00:15:19.920 --> 00:15:22.389
evidence of breaches of the nuclear


00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.030
testban treaty, the atmospheric nuclear


00:15:25.040 --> 00:15:26.550
testban treaty. That's what they were


00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:28.949
built for. They didn't see any nuclear


00:15:28.959 --> 00:15:31.990
tests, but they saw uh they saw these


00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.870
things coming from the sky uh bursts of


00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:36.949
radiation. So the first thing you think


00:15:36.959 --> 00:15:38.550
of when you see something like that is


00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:42.470
is this a a SETI signal uh or something


00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.670
artificial? Now, um, with gamma rays and


00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:49.749
indeed neutrino, uh, radiation, you I


00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:53.110
guess you would tend to put that fair to


00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.230
put an artificial origin fairly low on


00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.069
the list of candidate um, reasons why


00:16:00.079 --> 00:16:02.470
these things are flying through space


00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:05.110
because they're very, very high


00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.910
energetic, you know, high energy um,


00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.790
carriers. Uh, we're talking about high


00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:13.110
energy universe here.


00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.470
Um, having said that, I recently wrote


00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.269
the forward for a book by a group of


00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:21.110
colleagues at the Western Sydney


00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.069
University which is called high energy


00:16:24.079 --> 00:16:25.749
astrobiology.


00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.310
Uh, and there you have it, the link


00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.790
between these high energy physics


00:16:30.800 --> 00:16:34.230
phenomena and the science of the origin


00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.509
and evolution of life. Uh, and so I


00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.030
can't remember actually the details of


00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:41.749
the chapters. I did um uh I do have a


00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.389
copy of the book which I looked through


00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.230
and enjoyed uh reading but uh I can't so


00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.189
I can't remember the details but um I I


00:16:51.199 --> 00:16:52.550
wouldn't mind betting that somewhere in


00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:55.110
there somebody is


00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.189
basically highlighting the same this


00:16:57.199 --> 00:16:58.310
essentially the same question that


00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.110
Schumo has has raised here.


00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:01.509
>> So


00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.789
>> yeah, I I imagine so. But surely there'd


00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.189
be easier ways to send a message if you


00:17:07.199 --> 00:17:07.590
were


00:17:07.600 --> 00:17:09.510
>> Yeah. rather than blowing up a planet or


00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:11.029
something like that, which is, you know,


00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.470
the kind of energies that we're talking


00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.829
about here. Yes.


00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.750
>> Yeah. Well, it kind of worked for the


00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:19.429
Empire, didn't it?


00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:20.949
>> It depends on whose side you're on,


00:17:20.959 --> 00:17:21.189
really.


00:17:21.199 --> 00:17:24.549
>> Yeah, I suppose. So, but but um would


00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:28.789
lasers be feasible over Parex?


00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.430
>> Yeah, they are. I mean and so yes, but


00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.669
you know in in that regard I guess um


00:17:35.679 --> 00:17:37.669
you know Schumer's already raised the


00:17:37.679 --> 00:17:41.909
the the issue that um we've we've got uh


00:17:41.919 --> 00:17:44.470
the idea of optical communications as


00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.909
part and parcel of our retinue of


00:17:47.919 --> 00:17:50.789
researchers when it comes to uh when it


00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:57.430
comes to possible SETI signals. Um, and


00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.750
exactly as Schumo says, uh, SETI


00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:01.590
understandably concentrates on radio and


00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:04.310
optical signals. And yeah, that's why


00:18:04.320 --> 00:18:05.430
because they're going to be the easiest


00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.390
to produce.


00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.110
>> Yeah.


00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:08.950
>> Very much so. Optical signals, I think,


00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.270
have been neglected a bit in comparison


00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:14.870
with radio signals. Uh, but but that is


00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.669
coming to an end because the uh, you


00:18:17.679 --> 00:18:20.470
know, the latest instruments that we


00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:22.549
have looking at the optical sky, optical


00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.789
and near infrared sky. And I'm thinking


00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.110
particularly of the Vera C. Rubin


00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:29.990
Observatory now. It it finds transient


00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.990
events uh millions per night. By


00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.590
transient events, I mean things that


00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:37.990
come and go in the dark. And of course,


00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.909
communication signals would fall into


00:18:39.919 --> 00:18:40.870
that category.


00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.909
>> Yeah. When I was doing the research for


00:18:43.919 --> 00:18:48.630
my new sci-fi trilogy, um the the first


00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.830
book in the series is called The Signal.


00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:54.630
And I I did um quite a bit of research


00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.789
on what


00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.830
signal would be likely to be received on


00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:03.430
Earth by an alien intelligence. And it


00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:05.990
basically came down to the signals we


00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.990
use every day on our own planet. The the


00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.630
signals in the hydrogen line, the the


00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:16.710
1.4 to to 1.66 66 GHz um 1420 MHz range


00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.310
that that AM radio frequencies basically


00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:23.510
um more or less uh so that's what I


00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:28.789
based it on um but that that's that's


00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.430
more likely to be the kind of signal


00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.310
that would be sent by a communicative


00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:37.270
intelligence beyond Earth. And that's


00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:40.470
where the Drake equation comes in. Um, I


00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.470
think they're based on an intelligence


00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.549
that is capable of communication.


00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:48.870
And you're absolutely right, the you


00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.270
know the right from the beginning of the


00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:53.590
the what you might call the SETI era


00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:55.510
looking for extraterrestrial


00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:57.830
intelligence that hydrogen line that


00:19:57.840 --> 00:20:00.710
you've spoken of 21 cm line to put it in


00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:04.150
wavelength rather than frequency is um


00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.110
uh is what called cold hydrogen emits.


00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:10.789
So it's the most prolific uh


00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.110
spectral line in the whole in the whole


00:20:13.120 --> 00:20:17.430
universe of of any frequency band. Uh


00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.150
and so um it is naturally where you


00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.470
would start thinking about broadcasting


00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.950
if you were trying to send a signal out


00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.870
uh to a to another intelligence which


00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.070
that's the whole I guess the whole um


00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:35.190
proposition of SETI that uh the


00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.110
intelligent species out there might want


00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:38.870
to communicate. And how are they going


00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:39.990
to do it? Well,


00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.750
>> they're going to use the spectral line


00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:43.510
that we're looking for anyway because


00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:45.270
that's something we're using to map the


00:20:45.280 --> 00:20:45.990
universe.


00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.909
>> Yeah. Yeah. Was the wow signal in that


00:20:47.919 --> 00:20:49.190
frequency range? I think


00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.029
>> uh I think it was. Yes. Yeah, I think it


00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:51.750
was. Yeah.


00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:54.870
>> And that that came from the um


00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.750
Sagittarius constellation region of


00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:00.390
space as if cuz I I researched that as


00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.630
well. Going off the top of my head,


00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.590
>> but um they have actually studied that


00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:07.909
part of the universe and they at this


00:21:07.919 --> 00:21:10.630
moment cannot find anything to suggest


00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.990
that it was an artificial signal.


00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.750
But um they still haven't figured that


00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:16.870
one out, have they?


00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.190
>> No, there have been a few ideas like uh


00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.510
radio emission from comets. That was one


00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:22.789
uh because I think there were comets in


00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.470
the sky at the time.


00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.350
>> But um yeah, it's it's still it's still


00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.510
an open question.


00:21:29.520 --> 00:21:32.470
>> Yeah, I guess so. All right. Um that's a


00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.789
great question. Thanks, uh Schumo for


00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.350
sending it in. Um, but uh, yeah, there's


00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:39.590
probably easier ways to do things. And,


00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:41.990
uh, if you're going to send an signal to


00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.710
an alien civilization, you probably want


00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.669
them to be able to figure it out


00:21:47.679 --> 00:21:50.070
rather than send them something complex


00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:51.669
and they go, "No, no, I don't know what


00:21:51.679 --> 00:21:54.630
that was." Um, let's go to our final


00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.789
question from Colin.


00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.710
>> Hello, Andrew and Fred. Colin from


00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.310
Adelaide.


00:22:00.320 --> 00:22:02.789
I love the science fiction movie Project


00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.750
Hail Mary, which I've seen twice, but


00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:07.750
I'm still I'm quite confused about the


00:22:07.760 --> 00:22:10.310
time dilation effects in the movie.


00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:13.909
Ryland Grace travels 12 light years to


00:22:13.919 --> 00:22:18.149
his destination at tow seti in 4 years


00:22:18.159 --> 00:22:20.789
and 8 months. How can this be? The


00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:24.630
Beatles powered by the astrophage fuel


00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.669
carrying towa, the solution to the


00:22:27.679 --> 00:22:30.789
astrophage problem with the sun, reach


00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.590
earth even quicker than than this. How


00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:37.510
can that be? And lastly, if Ryan Grace


00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:40.789
had returned to Earth, how much younger


00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.590
would he be than those he left behind?


00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:45.830
Very confusing. I hope you can help.


00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:49.110
Thank you. Love the podcast.


00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:51.270
Yeah, thanks Colin. I've seen um I've


00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.110
seen the movie a couple of times myself


00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:55.190
and I've got to confess that I'm as


00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.990
confused as Colin in regard to the


00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.909
distances traveled and how fast they


00:22:59.919 --> 00:23:02.549
achieved it. Even though they came up


00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.470
with a new drive concept that um even


00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.470
that I had trouble getting my head


00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.470
around, they they did explain it and I


00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.510
just sat there sort of glazed look on my


00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:17.430
on my face um because it was uh it was


00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.430
very cleverly done but I don't know how


00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.230
they did it. Someone else might be able


00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.149
to uh explain it to me. Um, I suppose we


00:23:28.159 --> 00:23:31.190
can tackle the question in two ways. My


00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.430
answer, Colin, is it's science fiction.


00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.830
You can do whatever you damn would like.


00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:38.630
Um, but that's just that's the that's a


00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.549
very simplistic answer. Um, when I write


00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.669
my science fiction novels, I want at


00:23:45.679 --> 00:23:48.549
least some of it to be as believable as


00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.669
possible. And so, I'm I'm in your boat.


00:23:51.679 --> 00:23:55.029
I want to know how they did it. Um,


00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.430
the other Yeah. The other side of it is


00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:02.070
um that we should explain time dilation


00:24:02.080 --> 00:24:03.669
and


00:24:03.679 --> 00:24:05.029
see where that falls within the


00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.110
parameters of the film. Have you you


00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:09.110
haven't seen it, Fred, have you?


00:24:09.120 --> 00:24:10.710
>> Oh, you have? What did you think?


00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.029
>> Um so, well, I was hoping you'd have the


00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.669
answer to this question because I did I


00:24:15.679 --> 00:24:18.149
did watch it. I watched it on a flight


00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:19.830
from


00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:23.909
a flight from Sydney to Paris.


00:24:23.919 --> 00:24:28.149
um which uh gave me enough time to watch


00:24:28.159 --> 00:24:33.510
the movie uh thoroughly, but still I was


00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:35.909
still vaguely half asleep at the time.


00:24:35.919 --> 00:24:39.669
So, um, and look, so I can't I can't


00:24:39.679 --> 00:24:43.590
comment on those um those values uh that


00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:45.590
um that Colin's given us, but


00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:47.750
>> well, I I got to I've just done a quick


00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:51.190
search and um so the the destination for


00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.710
our hero of the movie uh was the star


00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:58.630
system TETI, which was is 11.9 light


00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.909
years from Earth.


00:24:59.919 --> 00:25:04.470
>> Mhm. to get there. Um the the spacecraft


00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.669
was powered by a microorganism called


00:25:07.679 --> 00:25:10.549
astrophase that converts mass into pure


00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.950
energy and that enabled the constant


00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.070
acceleration of 1.5g for the first half


00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:19.590
of the trip and then it flips and


00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:21.990
decelerates at 1.5g for the second half


00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.110
of the trip. Its peak velocity


00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:28.070
was roughly 92% the speed of light.


00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:29.750
Okay,


00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:33.269
if that's the case, traveling what 11.9


00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:36.310
light years would take longer than 11


00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:39.990
11.9 years. And he got there in I think


00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.310
it was 4 years.


00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:44.789
That's that's why Column's confused.


00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.510
>> Well, I mean, time dilation only works.


00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:48.549
>> Yes.


00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.470
>> When you when you're talking about two


00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.470
separate frames of reference.


00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.510
>> Well, it's 11.9 light years if you're


00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:56.630
staying on Earth.


00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.070
>> Yes.


00:25:58.080 --> 00:25:59.269
when you're traveling, it's a different


00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:00.310
kettle of fish.


00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:04.230
>> Yes, that's correct. Um, and so the time


00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.630
dilation, you know, the time basically


00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.830
slows down for you as you're traveling


00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:13.029
relative to the person back on Earth. M


00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.430
>> uh and so that seems to make sense from


00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.830
what you what you were saying that the


00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:19.510
you know the experience of the of the


00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:21.590
astronaut is


00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:24.710
one of in terms of earth time is a


00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.310
shorter time even though as far as the


00:26:26.320 --> 00:26:27.590
clocks are concerned they're still


00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:29.350
ticking at the same speed for the person


00:26:29.360 --> 00:26:30.310
who's traveling.


00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:33.750
>> Yeah. and and I must confess that in


00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:36.950
doing my research for the book that's um


00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.190
you know the target star that shall


00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:41.830
remain nameless in my story otherwise it


00:26:41.840 --> 00:26:44.789
gets too predictable


00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.470
um


00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.470
was was a certain distance from Earth


00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.390
as the crow flies or as the photons fly


00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:58.789
>> but in traveling there in a in a capable


00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:03.350
vessel um the the time to get there was


00:27:03.360 --> 00:27:07.669
cut quite dramatically. But in doing so,


00:27:07.679 --> 00:27:09.669
you didn't age, but everybody back on


00:27:09.679 --> 00:27:12.870
Earth did still age the so many light


00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:13.990
years.


00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.149
>> U and and that's the quandry, isn't it?


00:27:16.159 --> 00:27:17.269
It's um


00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.750
>> Well, yes. The twins paradox basically.


00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:21.669
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.


00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:25.750
>> So, um it is a thing. Uh and it it Yeah.


00:27:25.760 --> 00:27:29.510
the the traveler um doesn't take that


00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:32.070
amount of time to get there because of


00:27:32.080 --> 00:27:34.470
the fact that they're moving through spa


00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:39.830
space at a at a high velocity and um


00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:42.149
yeah


00:27:42.159 --> 00:27:44.470
really struggle to explain this stuff.


00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.710
>> Well, you should Yeah, the calculation


00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.470
is easy.


00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.390
>> The time dilation


00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.590
1 over 1 over the<unk> of 1 - v ^ 2 over


00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:55.269
c^ 2. You could do that in your head,


00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:55.750
Andrew.


00:27:55.760 --> 00:27:57.430
>> Yeah, I actually had I had it written


00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.710
down. I did have it written down.


00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.430
>> Yeah, that's the one. Um, but yeah, I


00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:04.470
don't know.


00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:06.470
>> Nearly everything in special relativity


00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.269
has this term in it of one over the


00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:11.830
square root of 1 minus V ^ 2 over C^ 2.


00:28:11.840 --> 00:28:14.070
It pops up everywhere. Time dilation,


00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:16.149
Lorent contraction, all of those things.


00:28:16.159 --> 00:28:19.110
It's the same the same factor. I could I


00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:21.750
could suggest to Colin um if he wants to


00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:25.510
read the human epoch part one uh there's


00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:27.750
there is an explanation of it in there.


00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:29.269
>> This is your trilogy.


00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.070
>> Yes.


00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:32.149
>> Part one of your trilogy. I think that's


00:28:32.159 --> 00:28:33.750
what you probably should do, Colin.


00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:34.149
>> Yeah.


00:28:34.159 --> 00:28:38.310
>> Uh and then you can bug Andrew about it.


00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:39.990
>> Well, I've already had a few people come


00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.630
to me and say, "Hang on a minute.


00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.190
>> Hang on a minute. How did you figure


00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.510
that out?" As you say, you're a science


00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:49.909
fiction writer. You can say whatever you


00:28:49.919 --> 00:28:50.389
want.


00:28:50.399 --> 00:28:52.389
>> Yeah. But I I like I like to get things


00:28:52.399 --> 00:28:53.110
right. So,


00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:55.750
>> yeah. Well, you should. That's right.


00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:57.750
>> All right. Uh Colin, that's a fun


00:28:57.760 --> 00:28:59.990
question. And it is a really great film.


00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.630
If uh if you haven't seen it, it's still


00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:05.269
one of the top picks on some of those um


00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:07.350
streaming platforms because it's uh it's


00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:10.230
such a it it's almost a delightful film


00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:11.830
in in some ways.


00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:13.190
>> Yeah. I thought it was a comedy


00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.750
actually.


00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:15.430
>> Yeah. It it bought it on that.


00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:15.909
>> Yeah.


00:29:15.919 --> 00:29:18.149
>> Yeah. And it sort of had a little blade.


00:29:18.159 --> 00:29:19.750
>> It sort of had a little bit of the


00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:22.310
Muppet Show in it at times.


00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:24.630
>> But but it really was a great story. I


00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:25.190
loved it.


00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:25.510
>> Yeah.




00:29:25.919 --> 00:29:27.430
>> Yeah. Thanks, Colin. Great to hear from


00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.430
you. Thanks to everyone who sent us


00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.190
questions. Don't forget you can do the


00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:32.470
same via our website,


00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.230
spacenutspodcast.com.


00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.230
Spacenuts.io.


00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.310
And just click on the ask me anything


00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:39.669
tab at the top. And don't forget to tell


00:29:39.679 --> 00:29:41.029
us who you are and where you're from and


00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:42.549
have a look around while you're there.


00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:43.990
And don't forget to leave reviews


00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.389
wherever you listen or watch us. Um


00:29:46.399 --> 00:29:48.870
because they help. Don't know who they


00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.149
help. I don't know why they help, but


00:29:50.159 --> 00:29:52.710
apparently they help. Uh unless they're


00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.510
not good reviews, then they don't help.


00:29:55.520 --> 00:29:58.870
See that's, you know, that's that's


00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.510
harder to explain than time dilation. Uh


00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:03.830
and uh thank you Fred for your help


00:30:03.840 --> 00:30:05.110
today. Couldn't have done it without


00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:06.149
you.


00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:07.190
>> I don't think I could have done it


00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.350
without you either, Andrew. So there you


00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:10.149
go.


00:30:10.159 --> 00:30:12.230
>> Just as well we're here. You're welcome


00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.750
and we'll talk again soon.


00:30:13.760 --> 00:30:15.190
>> We will. Professor Fred Watson,


00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.710
astronomer at large and thanks to Hugh


00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.630
in the studio. Couldn't be here due to


00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.110
an issue with time dilation, but we're


00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:23.750
expecting him in the year 2154.


00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:25.590
And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for


00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:27.110
your company. We'll see you on the next


00:30:27.120 --> 00:30:29.510
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye. Oh, hang


00:30:29.520 --> 00:30:31.190
on. Bye-bye.


00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.510
>> Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the


00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:36.470
Space Nuts podcast


00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:39.510
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:42.149
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00:30:42.159 --> 00:30:44.549
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