Little Bangs, Outer Planets & the Cosmic Budget Crunch | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is


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Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunley.


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It's great to have your company yet


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again. Uh coming up on this episode, we


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will be looking at a new Big Bang


00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:15.749
theory, so to speak. Uh it's uh sort of


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wrapped up with dark matter and dark


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dark energy and all that dark and


00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:21.830
foroding stuff. So, we'll talk about


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that. Uh some other data is pointing to


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a potential outer planet and it may not


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be planet 9. or is it? We're not sure


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yet. We'll talk about that. And uh some


00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:35.910
space science stuff. Uh an old Russian


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spacecraft is headed back to Earth and


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unfortunately that's not where it was


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originally supposed to go back in 1972.


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Uh Artemus 2, an update on that. And a


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bit of a budget cut issue with NASA.


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That's all coming up on this episode of


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Space Nuts. 15 seconds. Guidance is


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internal. 10 9 ignition sequence start.


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Space nets 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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Space Nuts astronauts report. It feels


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good. And it's good to see Professor


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Fred Watson again joining us on this


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episode of Space Nuts. Hi Fred. Hello


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Andrew. Very good to see you too. You're


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looking hail and hearty I have to say.


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Yes. I've got I've got a new background.


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You like my new office? I do. Yes. my


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new virtual office. It's um it's saying


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a lot of hell's at the moment. It is.


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It's got a hello. And if I put my hands


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in the right place, they're invisible.


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Yes. In fact, if I go Yeah. If I move


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around, I I go invisible. You do? Yes.


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Yes. You went invisible a minute or two


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ago, and I thought you'd rocketed into


00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:45.749
space. Never mind. Uh one day, no doubt


00:01:45.759 --> 00:01:48.230
you will. Now, you've been away, haven't


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you? We were over in Lord How Island uh


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which is an island uh some 150


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kilometers off of the coast of New South


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Wales. It's on the same latitude of Port


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McQuary. I used I used to


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broad island there. Yes. Yes, you did.


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Uh the the um I didn't actually have


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that much chance to talk to many of the


00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:09.589
locals in detail or else I would have


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asked them if they in fact I think I did


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ask one person whether they listened to


00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.430
you and they said yes. Uh but um yeah we


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we we were there for a dark sky


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festival. Uh uh Lord How is um working


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on the prospect of becoming Australia's


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first dark sky island. Uh which is like


00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:29.510
a dark sky park but it's an island. Uh


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I'm not giving away any secrets there


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but uh there are people working on that


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very enthusiastically and we wish them


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every success with it. Uh so one of this


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was a sort of kickoff festival with


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talks and presentations and um I took


00:02:42.959 --> 00:02:44.869
the old Gibson guitar and Money and I


00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.869
did a set in their music night. We did


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seven songs between us. That was Oh,


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cool. And I've done that for about 50


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years. And um and then um you know uh we


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did some uh experiments with a friend of


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ours uh uh Mariscaro uh launching


00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:03.750
rockets uh with which were fueled by


00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:06.470
vinegar and bicarbonate of soda. Um


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which meant we all ended up smelling of


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vinegar for the next four days. Uh and


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uh yeah, it went it went went very well.


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That was a a fun thing for the kids to


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do. So yeah, it was a good festival and


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it wound up on uh Thursday evening with


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a very nice meal uh cooked up by one of


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the top chefs on the island. So great.


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Fantastic. I haven't been to Lord How


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but we're going to going to have to get


00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.550
there. Yeah, you need to go. You do need


00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.149
to It's also uh the home of some unique


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wildlife. I believe there are. Yes. And


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particularly the Woodhen, uh which is


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ubiquitous. They had a program uh four


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or five years a three or four years ago


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I think it was to eliminate all the rats


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on the island which were eating the wood


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hens. Uh and that was quite


00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.670
controversial but it's worked and the


00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:54.070
wood hens are there in in remarkable uh


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uh prlivity. How's that? And they also


00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.470
have those quite rare stick insects on


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the is it on the spire? It's on balls


00:04:02.959 --> 00:04:04.789
pyramid. Gosh you're right there. Yeah,


00:04:04.799 --> 00:04:07.110
Ball's Pyramid 20 kilometers off Lord


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How. We had a very rough crossing to


00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.350
Ball's pyramid. We went cuz I always


00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.350
wanted to see it up close and personal.


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It's this stick of rock uh 500 m high.


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Uh and um remarkable and it, as you


00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.909
said, it does have I think it's the only


00:04:21.919 --> 00:04:24.230
place where these nocturnal stick


00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:25.909
insects are found. And they're actually


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quite big. I saw a photograph of one.


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Yeah, I remember that story breaking


00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.510
many years ago when they found them and


00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:34.150
they went, "Oh my goodness." Uh, didn't


00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.629
know they were here. That's right. Yeah.


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Incredible place. It is. It's amazing.


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So, um, what about you? How how's your


00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.790
week been? Uh, you're pretty quiet,


00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.150
actually. Just sort of settling back


00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:46.070
into normal life, even though that's


00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:47.510
going to be temporary. But I did want to


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show you something from our trip. Um, as


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you know, we went to San Francisco and


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San Francisco is the home of a big rock


00:04:54.320 --> 00:04:56.710
known as Alcatraz. Indeed. And you know,


00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.710
I like to collect souvenirs wherever I


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go, particularly particularly little


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rocks from different places. But this


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one's legal. There it is. Save the rock.


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Yeah. And inside that box, Yes. are two


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pieces two pieces of the cell block of


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Alcatraz, right? Cuz they're trying to


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do renovations to keep it going for


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future generations.


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And so as a part of the renovation


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process, they've had to demolish certain


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sections and um they're selling the rock


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to fund the renovations. The


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renovations. There you go. So I got two


00:05:33.919 --> 00:05:36.550
pieces of the cell wall from Alcatraz in


00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:37.909
my collection. You just can't see them


00:05:37.919 --> 00:05:41.110
as the uh the your your screen tries to


00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:42.710
wipe them out and make them part of the


00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:44.469
background. Yeah. If I tip it forward,


00:05:44.479 --> 00:05:47.670
it disappears. Can see them. So that's


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There they are. Oh, there they are. Yes.


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It's looking very uh very um penal penal


00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.510
connally. Yeah. This chunk of concrete,


00:05:55.520 --> 00:05:57.189
it says this chunk of concrete is a


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byproduct of a major rehabilitation


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effort now underway on the island. It's


00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.909
been inspected by park historic


00:06:03.919 --> 00:06:05.830
preservation specialists to be sure that


00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:08.029
it contains nothing of research


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potential. So, it's yeah, just looks


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like a piece of concrete, but it's


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actually a piece of Alcatraz and it's


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all mine. And uh interestingly um it's


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in the news at the moment, of course,


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because President Trump wants to


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reinstate it as a jail. Oh, does he? I


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didn't hear that one. Yeah. Uh it needs


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Well, I I'll tell him one thing for


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free. It needs work.


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It needs work. Um but it's only a


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15-minute trip to get over there. Yes,


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that's right. I haven't been to Pier 39.


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So, yeah, it's uh it's worth visiting,


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though. We better get down to the


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business of the day and that is


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astronomy and space science. And we'll


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start off with this story, Fred. A new


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theory on the Big Bang. Uh dark matter,


00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.230
dark energy, all of that stuff is rolled


00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.390
into this this uh paper that's been


00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:00.629
released uh through the University of


00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.230
Alabama in uh Huntsville. Um this is


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this is a a physics professor who's um


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come up with alternative theories in the


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past on other things.


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Um, this one though is probably going to


00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.309
get um pulled apart under the


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microscope. Uh, what he's suggesting is


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there might not have been one big bang,


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but lots of little bangs.


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That's right. Uh, exactly. And, um, uh,


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you know, you've you've described it


00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.350
perfectly. It's an a really interesting


00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.270
theory in that if you have lots of


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little bangs rather than one big one,


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apparently mathematically you can get


00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:41.670
rid of dark matter and dark energy which


00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.629
are of course the the two big problems


00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:47.510
in current cosmology. What are these? Um


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and just a bit of background there. Dark


00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.029
energy we think is the property of space


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uh that makes uh the expanding universe


00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.869
accelerate in its expansion. Uh although


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there's just we're just starting to see


00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.390
evidence that that might slow down that


00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:05.430
acceleration. Uh it looks as though it


00:08:05.440 --> 00:08:08.070
was uh more rapid uh five billion years


00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:11.350
ago than it is today. And that's you


00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.670
know new news I guess uh on the on the


00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:14.869
what you might call the conventional


00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:16.070
picture. And of course the other half of


00:08:16.080 --> 00:08:18.070
that is the dark matter which is


00:08:18.080 --> 00:08:19.909
something that we believe holds galaxies


00:08:19.919 --> 00:08:22.070
together and holds clusters of galaxies


00:08:22.080 --> 00:08:24.550
together uh which is invisible and


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undetectable except by its gravity. two


00:08:27.599 --> 00:08:30.150
big problems for modern cosmology. So,


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uh, Professor Leu thinks that he's


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solved both of these with a theory that,


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um, it's it's got a name. I can't


00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:42.070
remember what it is. Uh, it's his his


00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:45.990
paper, uh, is entitled, uh, I can't find


00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.310
the title of his paper. I, it's


00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.389
something like getting rid of dark


00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.870
matter and dark energy.


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Um it's um basically


00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:59.670
um uh the idea exactly as you've said is


00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:02.509
that you instead of having one big


00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:06.630
bang you you have several little ones


00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:10.150
that sort of um every time you get one


00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:13.750
they uh you know it sort of restarts


00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:16.710
things in a in a odd way and that's the


00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.630
bit of this that I I have to say I don't


00:09:18.640 --> 00:09:22.470
understand um because we have such great


00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.230
evidence that there's only been one big


00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.710
bang and that is the fact that we still


00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:28.710
see it the cosmic microwave background


00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.110
radiation. Yeah. Wouldn't that wouldn't


00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.110
that just wipe his theory out


00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.070
instantaneously? Well, and unless um he


00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.230
sus he suggests that you get a you know


00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.470
a new microwave background radiation


00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.990
every time there's one of these mini big


00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:45.030
bangs. But that that actually flies in


00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:49.430
the face of the uh research the


00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:51.710
observations that professor Leu is


00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.870
suggesting that we do to detect these


00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:58.949
multiple big bangs. Um I think uh the


00:09:58.959 --> 00:10:00.949
cosmic microwave background radiation is


00:10:00.959 --> 00:10:03.509
a showstopper for this. And the reason


00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:08.790
is um when we look out into space we see


00:10:08.800 --> 00:10:12.310
uh progressively uh objects most notably


00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.150
galaxies at different red shifts there


00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:16.310
increasing red shift. It's the red shift


00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.949
is the uh the move of the of the light


00:10:18.959 --> 00:10:21.509
to the red end of the spectrum. It's uh


00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.350
what we measure. We believe it's


00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:25.990
happening because space is expanding. Uh


00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.230
that stretches the light waves and gives


00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.710
you the red shift. And if you look at a


00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.790
high enough red shift, what do you see?


00:10:32.800 --> 00:10:35.509
You see the big bang. You see the cosmic


00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.110
microwave background radiation, the


00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:39.590
flash of the big bang, uh when it became


00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:41.030
from when the universe became


00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:43.829
transparent about 380,000 years after


00:10:43.839 --> 00:10:46.710
the big bang event. Now what professor


00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.110
Louu is saying is that you could test


00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.509
his theory by looking for as you look


00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.150
back in time in other words increasing


00:10:56.160 --> 00:11:00.910
red shifts look for jumps in red shift


00:11:00.920 --> 00:11:04.389
um which you know it might mean uh that


00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:06.630
that you if if you're looking along a


00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:08.389
particular line of sight you see all the


00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.190
galaxies along that line of sight you


00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.509
see them gradually increasing in red


00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.350
shift and then suddenly you see a jump


00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.310
in red shift uh which looks as though


00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.389
something's missing and what he's


00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:21.990
suggesting is that's where you get a


00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.389
mini big bang. Um but uh that as I said


00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.150
flies in the face of the cosmic micron


00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:29.910
radiation because that is at the most


00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:31.509
extreme red shift we can observe. It's


00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.470
at the red shift of about 1300. Uh uh


00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:36.630
because the universe has expanded by a


00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:39.030
factor similar to that in the time since


00:11:39.040 --> 00:11:42.069
since um since it became transparent


00:11:42.079 --> 00:11:45.350
which is what we can see. We can see the


00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.470
opaque universe at that great distance.


00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.750
So that's my take on it for what it's


00:11:50.760 --> 00:11:52.750
worth from a


00:11:52.760 --> 00:11:56.389
non-cossmologist. Uh but um it's causing


00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:01.430
interest. Um it's really um uh you know


00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:03.990
actually an interesting piece of work. I


00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.389
haven't looked at the original paper but


00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:08.069
um as you pointed out I think you found


00:12:08.079 --> 00:12:09.310
this one


00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.710
um Andrew uh this is on the the brighter


00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.509
side of news the website there's a


00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.310
lovely piece of pros at the end of that


00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:19.829
article which I'd love to read out to


00:12:19.839 --> 00:12:22.470
you uh quoting the brighter side of news


00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.550
instead of hunting for invisible


00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:26.629
ingredients i.e. dark matter and dark


00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.790
energy. Instead of hunting for invisible


00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:30.470
ingredients, scientists might start


00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.550
listening for the echoes of ancient


00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:35.590
unstoppable bursts, the hidden rhythms


00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.389
of a universe still in motion. Very


00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:41.670
poetic. Yeah. Very very uh I think the


00:12:41.680 --> 00:12:44.389
paper is titled are dark matter and dark


00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:48.310
energy omniresent. Yes, I I had that but


00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.389
I couldn't remember it. Yeah. Well,


00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.870
yeah. Why would you remember that? Yes.


00:12:52.880 --> 00:12:55.590
You know, so um watch this space. We'll


00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:59.190
um we'll see what other uh physicists


00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.829
and astronomers make of it. Uh and uh


00:13:01.839 --> 00:13:04.069
hopefully see a bit more. That's what I


00:13:04.079 --> 00:13:05.910
like about these papers is that


00:13:05.920 --> 00:13:07.430
everybody gets to read them and go,


00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.190
well, okay, I think that's wrong and


00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.350
this is why or I think that could be on


00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.030
the money and this is why, you know,


00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:18.150
everybody gets a say in it. So it gets


00:13:18.160 --> 00:13:20.710
bounced around like a Yes. Okay. Like a


00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.030
pinball


00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:24.710
until everyone seems to settle on some


00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.230
agreeable potential answer. Would that


00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.069
be right? Yeah, that's right. And it's a


00:13:30.079 --> 00:13:32.150
consensus. It's, you know, as as the


00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:34.870
scientific consensus emerges. Uh that's


00:13:34.880 --> 00:13:38.230
what we then regard as um as the


00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:39.990
standard model, if I can put it that


00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.310
way. Uh but but um often like some of


00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:46.230
the this this particular work is going


00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.110
to take a lot to verify it. um and


00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.150
looking for red shift steps might be uh


00:13:52.160 --> 00:13:55.430
one way of doing it. Uh and and in fact


00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.110
I was going to mention this that is not


00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.870
new. Um I remember back in the 70s uh


00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:02.069
when I was working at the Royal


00:14:02.079 --> 00:14:05.030
Observatory in Edinburgh uh one of my


00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:07.030
colleagues was looking for what he


00:14:07.040 --> 00:14:09.350
called quantized red shifts. Red shifts


00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.670
that appeared in groups among the


00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:15.030
galaxies. uh which which is the sort of


00:14:15.040 --> 00:14:16.750
thing that you might expect professor


00:14:16.760 --> 00:14:19.430
Lou's research to throw up. He didn't


00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:21.670
find them. The the person who was my


00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:23.189
colleague at Edinburgh, he did he never


00:14:23.199 --> 00:14:25.750
found them. So, but that was of course


00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:27.910
with 1970s technology. We have moved on


00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:30.629
a very very long way since then. Just a


00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.949
just a little bit. That's right. I'm


00:14:32.959 --> 00:14:34.710
sure we'll hear more about this story as


00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.870
people analyze his theory. So, we'll


00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:38.710
keep an eye on that. And as Fred said,


00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.030
it's available for you to read on the


00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:44.269
bright side. news


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incogn.com/spacenuts. Now, back to the


00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:40.230
show. G and I feel space nuts. Now,


00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.950
Fred, let's uh move on to another story


00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.470
that we've uh looked at uh many times


00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:48.630
and that is Planet 9. Although this is


00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.669
probably not about planet 9, but they


00:17:51.679 --> 00:17:55.750
have been looking at uh data that


00:17:55.760 --> 00:17:59.190
suggests there is an outer planet


00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.350
further out than they think where planet


00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.909
nine should be. So this could was this


00:18:03.919 --> 00:18:07.350
is this planet 10 or 9.5 or what? I


00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:08.950
think they're calling it 8 and a half.


00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.830
Um because we've got Yes, this is not


00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:14.230
planet 9. That's that that is planet


00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.310
8.5. Right. Okay. Um, so what's the


00:18:18.320 --> 00:18:21.590
story? So, um, well, let's scan


00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:27.270
backwards to, um, uh, 200 2016, I think


00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:29.909
it was. Yeah, 2016 when two US


00:18:29.919 --> 00:18:31.430
astronomers,


00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.029
uh, basically puts out a paper


00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.270
suggesting that the fact that we've got


00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:40.310
all these uh, um, distant asteroid


00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:42.310
orbits, these are objects, trans


00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:44.470
neptunian objects, objects that are


00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.789
beyond the orbit of Neptune. uh and in


00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:48.630
fact some of them are what called


00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.110
extreme trans neptunian objects objects


00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:53.190
a long way beyond the orbit of Neptune


00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.470
whose orbits are highly uh elliptical


00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.390
they're very very elongated but they


00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.669
seem to line up um the the you know the


00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:03.350
elongated orbits seem to line up and


00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:04.789
they suggested that was because there's


00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.070
a planet out there that we haven't


00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:08.230
found. They call it planet 9. They think


00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.710
it's probably 10 times the mass of the


00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.950
earth. Um what you might call a super


00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.909
earth or or a sub neptune. those are the


00:19:15.919 --> 00:19:18.390
planets that are kind of common in other


00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:20.150
solar systems but are missing in our


00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.950
solar system. Uh so it it sort of fit


00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.549
fit the bill. Uh lots of uh lots of


00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.190
enthusiasm for this but also again lots


00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.669
of controversy. Um I think I probably


00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:33.990
mentioned to you the beginning of last


00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.950
year was it? I think yes. Um when I was


00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.549
in Canada I spoke to a planetary


00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.789
scientist there who said planet 9 is


00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.350
rubbish. uh and uh that was somebody who


00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:46.110
was um well tuned with um you know with


00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:49.510
the uh with the with the the science. Uh


00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:54.470
anyway, we now have a uh a new theory or


00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.110
sorry some new observations uh which


00:19:57.120 --> 00:20:00.310
come from astronomers in Taiwan, Japan


00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:02.870
and here in Australia. Yeah. Uh and what


00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.310
they've done is they've looked through


00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:09.830
archival images from two infrared


00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:12.390
satellites. One was called IRAS which I


00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.029
remember well. It was a NASA uh


00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.950
Netherlands UK satellite dating from


00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.630
1983. Um a very very productive


00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.029
satellite, infrared astronomy satellite.


00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.070
That's what the the abbreviation was. Uh


00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:28.470
and Aari which was a kind of Japanese


00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.149
equivalent which was launched quite a


00:20:30.159 --> 00:20:34.070
long time later in 2006. And that that


00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:36.470
means excuse me both these satellites


00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:37.630
surveyed the


00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:42.310
sky. Excuse my frog in my throat. Um but


00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:45.350
um they are um you know they're doing it


00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:48.110
at two completely different times which


00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:52.710
are 25ish years apart. Yeah. And so what


00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.789
that means is that if there's something


00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.350
deep in the solar system that is slowly


00:20:57.360 --> 00:21:00.789
moving uh you will you might be able to


00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.990
pick it up pick up its motion on these


00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.470
sets of images that were taken so far


00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.190
apart in time. Uh that's what they


00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.029
found. They basically had two million


00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.149
objects in the two cataloges. Um and


00:21:14.159 --> 00:21:17.510
they they got down to I think it was 13


00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:21.750
candidates um of of objects that moved


00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:24.789
slowly across the sky in the time. Uh


00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.270
and then they looked at each one by eye.


00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:28.710
Some of them probably turned out to be


00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.549
flaws in the data and things of that


00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:35.029
sort. Yeah. But one of them uh actually


00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.510
looked very promising. Uh because the


00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:41.110
the two observations um the Iras and


00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:43.510
Nicari observations separated by 20 odd


00:21:43.520 --> 00:21:46.789
years uh showed an object that had


00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.630
moved. Um but its color and its


00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.750
brightness were the same in both images.


00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:56.149
And so they are suspecting that that


00:21:56.159 --> 00:21:58.710
makes it the same object rather than you


00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.029
know two bits of dub data or something


00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:08.350
like that. Um now it's it's actually


00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:11.110
um something different from what planet


00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:15.270
9 has been suspected. Uh first of all


00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:19.190
this object if it is real goes around


00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.669
the sun in the opposite direction from


00:22:21.679 --> 00:22:24.630
everything else. Okay. uh it's tilted


00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.070
way over its orbits tilted at 120° which


00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:29.909
because it's more than 90° means it's


00:22:29.919 --> 00:22:33.430
going the wrong way round whereas planet


00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.350
9 uh the theory that was built around


00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:40.630
these extreme trans neptunian objects um


00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.789
that you know provided a model for


00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.510
planet 9 that really needed a very low


00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:49.110
orbit tilt 15 degrees or so uh in in


00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:51.750
order to do the the the stretching of


00:22:51.760 --> 00:22:53.350
these orbits or the alignment into these


00:22:53.360 --> 00:22:57.430
orbits. So the two uh scientists who


00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.590
were the original proposers of planet 9,


00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:02.470
Mike Brown and Constantin Constantin


00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.350
Batigan, uh they say, well, whatever


00:23:05.360 --> 00:23:10.029
this is, it's not planet 9. Um and it's


00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.630
it's but it may be something else.


00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.510
That's the uh the the inference that


00:23:15.520 --> 00:23:19.110
this thing may be real. uh and it uh


00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:23.190
clearly needs more data uh to determine


00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.350
whether it's a real object. Uh if it is,


00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:27.029
it might as exactly as we were said


00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:29.270
before might be planet 8 and a half or 9


00:23:29.280 --> 00:23:32.470
and a half. Um I guess the best bet uh


00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.549
for finding it is going to be when we


00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.789
get the Ver Rubin Observatory online um


00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.870
which is going to be uh towards the end


00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.510
of this year. uh and that is going to be


00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:48.789
able to look at the uh the southern sky


00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:50.630
which I think is where this object is. I


00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:51.990
can't remember what constellation it was


00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.710
in. Um it it they're but it's going to


00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.149
be able to look at the southern sky in


00:23:56.159 --> 00:23:59.110
much detail and it may find planet 9 or


00:23:59.120 --> 00:24:02.630
it may confirm planet 8 and a half or it


00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.390
may just tell us there's nothing out


00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.789
there at all. Uh so this is something


00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.470
that we're we're going to look forward


00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.470
to and you and I will talk about it I'm


00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:12.710
sure. Yeah. And then this has also


00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.149
created another issue because uh if this


00:24:16.159 --> 00:24:19.590
is a planet um beyond where planet 9


00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:22.630
should be. There is another theory that


00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.110
suggests that it will um basically


00:24:25.120 --> 00:24:27.110
eliminate the potential existence of


00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:29.750
planet 9 because they would interfere


00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:31.590
with each other and that and that's not


00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:34.149
evident in this data. That's correct.


00:24:34.159 --> 00:24:36.630
That's right. So yeah, you picked up on


00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.470
something I'd forgotten when I read the


00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.630
um I read the piece. That's right. It's


00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:45.110
uh um if if this is a real object uh


00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:47.269
it's it would not be compatible with


00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.669
there being a planet 9 uh which would


00:24:49.679 --> 00:24:51.510
actually be much nearer than this. This


00:24:51.520 --> 00:24:54.149
is thing is a long long way away uh


00:24:54.159 --> 00:24:56.070
right on the edge of the solar system if


00:24:56.080 --> 00:24:58.310
it's real uh and it would conflict with


00:24:58.320 --> 00:25:00.470
the idea of a planet 9. Yes. So, so it


00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.590
may be uh that this will if it turns out


00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:05.430
to be the right thing, if it turns out


00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.590
to be a real thing, then it might knock


00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:09.029
the planet 9 theory on the head


00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.269
altogether. But it's still just as


00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.269
exciting because it's it's it's a


00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.510
planet. Yeah, it it could be a planet.


00:25:15.520 --> 00:25:16.870
That's right. Could be a planet


00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:19.750
regardless. So, yeah, forget planet 9.


00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:22.070
Yeah, yeah, I got this. Whatever. Yeah,


00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:24.870
whatever it is. Yeah. Well, hopefully we


00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.750
can uh we can find that one. Uh they


00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:29.430
might end up calling it Planet 9 anyway


00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.669
because Well, that's what it'll be.


00:25:31.679 --> 00:25:34.710
That's what it'll be. Exactly. Yeah.


00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.710
It's really interesting. This one just


00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.549
keeps coming up this keeps on giving.


00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.510
Yeah, it does. Yeah. I love it. If you


00:25:43.520 --> 00:25:45.669
would like to read up on that, it's been


00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:48.350
published uh on the website


00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:50.630
science.org. This is Space Nuts with


00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.909
Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:25:55.919 --> 00:25:58.070
Roger. You're allowed to here also space


00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:01.029
nuts. Now Fred, uh a few quick stories


00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.669
about various things uh that are


00:26:03.679 --> 00:26:07.510
happening mainly involving spacecraft or


00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:10.390
uh space missions or or lack of although


00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.470
the last story is more of a budget cut


00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.310
issue. But uh let's let's go back to


00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.430
1972 when the Soviet Union and the


00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.470
United States were um you know very


00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.510
heavily involved in the space race and


00:26:23.520 --> 00:26:26.390
the Soviet Union launched a a a


00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.789
spacecraft that was supposed to send a


00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.510
lander to


00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:34.390
Venus didn't quite make it and now now


00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.310
it's going to it's probably going to


00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:38.870
crash back down to Earth. That's right.


00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.830
So Cosmos 482 uh was the name of the


00:26:41.840 --> 00:26:43.830
mission. Um, and it was on its way to


00:26:43.840 --> 00:26:46.390
Venus. You're absolutely right. Uh, but


00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:50.149
apparently, uh, one of the final stages


00:26:50.159 --> 00:26:53.110
in the rocket, the upper stage, uh, the


00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:57.110
the booster basically malfunctioned. Uh,


00:26:57.120 --> 00:27:00.149
and so the spacecraft, uh, went into


00:27:00.159 --> 00:27:01.430
orbit around the Earth. It's probably


00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.870
quite a big orbit. Not sure of its


00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.990
dimensions. Uh but um it's uh so it's


00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.990
been in orbit around the earth for the


00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:15.669
last 50 53 years. Yeah. Uh and that time


00:27:15.679 --> 00:27:18.630
has now come when its orbit is decaying.


00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.149
Uh and uh it looks as though uh it is


00:27:22.159 --> 00:27:26.070
going to re-enter uh the earth's um


00:27:26.080 --> 00:27:27.590
atmosphere.


00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:31.110
uh and with actually a prediction uh for


00:27:31.120 --> 00:27:34.630
its entry uh almost as soon as the end


00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.990
of this week. Yeah. Um it's and it


00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.789
that's very hard to predict because uh


00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.310
it is uh it's uncontrolled. It doesn't


00:27:44.320 --> 00:27:46.710
have uh you know it doesn't have any um


00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.669
any sort of way of being being directed


00:27:49.679 --> 00:27:51.190
as to where it will reenter the


00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.230
atmosphere. Uh so it'll come down uh in


00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.430
a random place and as you mentioned um


00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:01.350
uh earlier on it's uh it's dangerous in


00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:03.950
a sense because this spacecraft was


00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:06.789
designed to penetrate the atmosphere of


00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.830
Venus. Uh and Venus's atmosphere is much


00:28:09.840 --> 00:28:13.029
thicker than our atmosphere. Uh it's uh


00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.269
now it would have been a a controlled


00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.029
entry into the atmosphere of Venus. It


00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.549
would have had breaking rockets to slow


00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.870
it down. uh which it doesn't have coming


00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:22.789
into the Earth's atmosphere. But it does


00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.110
mean uh that there might be bits of this


00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:29.510
capsule uh which will actually survive


00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:32.549
re-entry and could land on the ground.


00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.310
Uh it's um it's one to watch, I think,


00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:39.029
is this because we could see a headline


00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.190
that this piece of ancient space junk


00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:43.230
has landed in somebody's paddock


00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.549
or still landed on somebody's house. uh


00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.190
and um and will will probably cause


00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.510
global news. So, look out for news on


00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:53.830
that within the next few days. It might


00:28:53.840 --> 00:28:56.549
create one heck of a fireball. It could.


00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.950
Yes, that's right. Yeah, it could as it


00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.269
comes down. But we don't know we we


00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.430
don't know where it might land at this


00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.269
stage. It's it's one of these um very


00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:09.909
unpredict unpredictable scenarios. So,


00:29:09.919 --> 00:29:12.070
it yeah, it could just land anywhere. I


00:29:12.080 --> 00:29:13.909
mean, odds are it's going to miss


00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:15.750
something significant. It's just


00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:18.230
probably going to land in probably water


00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.830
would be most likely one. Well, that


00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:22.070
that's correct because water is what


00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:25.990
covers most of the Earth. 70% or 75%.


00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.630
That's right. Uh and that's sort of


00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:30.590
tends to be what happens with


00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:32.710
re-entering space debris. Most of it


00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.430
goes into into the ocean. Yeah. But the


00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.190
they go on to say that the risk of


00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:38.630
something getting hit is not


00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.029
particularly high, but not zero. That's


00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.510
right. That's correct. But that I guess


00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:45.029
that's always the case with anything


00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.669
coming through the atmosphere. So yes,


00:29:47.679 --> 00:29:49.590
watch with interest. Keep your eye on


00:29:49.600 --> 00:29:52.430
the sky. Uh that story in


00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.029
spaceaily.com. Uh let's move on to our


00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.029
next story. This is really exciting


00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.470
news. Uh Loheed Martin has finished uh


00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:02.870
the Orion capsule which is going to be


00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.909
put on top of Arteimus


00:30:04.919 --> 00:30:08.070
2. Indeed. That's right. Uh for launch


00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:11.190
next year. And Artimus 2 will uh will


00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.789
carry four astronauts. Uh and in a in a


00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.070
repeat mission of Arteimus 1 uh which


00:30:18.080 --> 00:30:20.350
was um


00:30:20.360 --> 00:30:22.630
basically going to the moon and back


00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.950
going into a very elongated orbit around


00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.269
the moon and then coming back to earth


00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.029
re-entering and landing back on Earth.


00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.870
That was all done as a dress rehe dress


00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:32.870
rehearsal. It's I think it's two years


00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.830
ago now. Yeah, it would be time since um


00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:38.149
and uh it worked flawlessly actually.


00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:39.590
Everything worked very well after a few


00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:42.230
hiccups on the launch pad. Uh, so


00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.470
Artimus 2 is the same thing, but will


00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.029
carry a crew. I think the capsule has


00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.830
been I think it's had some upgrades from


00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:52.630
the original planned one. Yeah, I think


00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.510
they I think they put a toilet in it.


00:30:55.520 --> 00:30:58.230
That would be very good if they did. Um


00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:01.029
the these are well we've got a quote


00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.789
here that uh comes from one of the


00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.470
Loheed Martin uh techni uh engineers to


00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.750
support the health and safety of the


00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:09.669
crew. This new systems have been added


00:31:09.679 --> 00:31:12.070
which include life support air water


00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:14.549
thermal control waste management as you


00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.950
said uh displays and controls audio


00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.950
communications an exercise machine and a


00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.750
fully functional launch abort system uh


00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:24.149
and so and lots and lots of other bells


00:31:24.159 --> 00:31:27.029
and whistles on it. Um, and so there'll


00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.669
be a lot of work now to kind of get the


00:31:29.679 --> 00:31:32.470
thing ready for launch next year. But


00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.630
yes, Artimus is on track for Arteimus 2,


00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.430
uh, flying very soon. Yeah. And they


00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.590
will carry astronauts this time. This


00:31:41.600 --> 00:31:43.430
will be a human mission and they're


00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.149
going to go way past the moon like the


00:31:46.159 --> 00:31:48.389
first mission. Yes. Will this be a


00:31:48.399 --> 00:31:50.549
record as to the furthest people have


00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:53.110
been out? It will indeed. That's right.


00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:54.789
It's going to be the uh you know it's


00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.789
going to be the furthest from Earth that


00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.430
any human has ventured. So that's Yes.


00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:02.070
Yeah. At the moment I think that record


00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:04.950
is held by Michael Collins because he


00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.710
was by himself, wasn't he? In um uh the


00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.149
um Apollo 11 Apollo 11.


00:32:12.159 --> 00:32:14.870
Yeah. Uh that might be right. I mean all


00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.870
the Apollo astronauts the um the what


00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.789
was it? It was the capsule commander I


00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.630
think. uh were left in orbit around the


00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.590
moon. Uh I don't know. And so some of


00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:29.190
those orbits might have been higher than


00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.549
others. Yeah. But yeah, I just it rings


00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:33.990
a bell, I think. I think that's true,


00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.830
right? Yeah. I'm sure I'll be corrected.


00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:38.389
I could look it up, but um yeah, might


00:32:38.399 --> 00:32:40.389
bother. We've got Space Not listeners.


00:32:40.399 --> 00:32:42.230
That's right. They're very quick to


00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.870
correct us. Absolutely. But this is all


00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:46.789
exciting news and it looks Yeah, they're


00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:49.830
looking at uh was it April next year or


00:32:49.840 --> 00:32:51.750
launch?


00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:53.750
So everything on schedule at the moment


00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:56.549
but uh this is a another example of the


00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:58.389
collaborative effort to put these


00:32:58.399 --> 00:33:01.430
missions together. It's um uh you know


00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.950
Loheed Martin's just one company. Uh I


00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.190
think Airbus is involved in this as


00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.430
well. Uh and um so many others. So uh we


00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.430
will uh we'll watch watch with interest.


00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:14.950
I'm kind of glad they put that life


00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:16.710
support system in. That would probably


00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.509
be useful. It might be. Yes, it might be


00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.230
helpful. Indeed, you can find plenty of


00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:24.630
stories uh that talk about that


00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:26.789
particular mission online if you care to


00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:29.590
search. One final thing, Fred, and this


00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:33.750
is probably not good news, and that is a


00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:36.789
potential budget cuts uh that will hit


00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.509
NASA pretty hard. Very hard. Yeah. If


00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.710
it's So, this is the the White House's


00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.870
proposed federal spending budget for


00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:46.950
2026.


00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.870
uh and there's cuts in many many areas


00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:56.149
but uh NASA uh have actually taken the


00:33:56.159 --> 00:33:58.789
brunt of this with a cut facing a


00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.269
possible cut has to be has to be


00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.789
approved clearly uh but it's


00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:07.669
24.3% uh coming down from 24.8 billion


00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:10.470
uh in this financial year to 18.8 8


00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:13.109
billion in the next financial year. And


00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.510
of course, so many of NASA's programs


00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:18.710
are very very sensitive uh to funding.


00:34:18.720 --> 00:34:20.790
Many of them are on shoestring budgets,


00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.829
you know, like keeping the Voyagers uh


00:34:23.839 --> 00:34:27.149
uh in touch uh and the Deep Space


00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:29.669
programs, all of that, possible future


00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:34.230
missions for New Horizons. That's uh all


00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:36.069
you have to worry about the future of


00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.069
them. Uh what's perhaps more significant


00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:43.349
and uh and you know I can see sort of


00:34:43.359 --> 00:34:45.190
where this is going is we've just been


00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:47.270
talking about Artemis. Uh the current


00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.310
Arteimus program has I think five uh


00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:53.430
missions um which the last ones would


00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.389
have um you know would have the gateway


00:34:56.399 --> 00:35:00.069
uh the gateway um uh uh space station in


00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.829
orbit around the moon. uh the basically


00:35:03.839 --> 00:35:07.430
the uh the the cuts would bring the


00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.349
Arteimus mission to an end after


00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:12.870
Arteimus 3. Gateway would be cancelled


00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.109
uh and those later Arteimus landings


00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:20.109
would be cancelled as well. Uh and um


00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:24.270
the the the the sort of load on lunar


00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:27.349
exploration would then be taken by the


00:35:27.359 --> 00:35:29.829
private sector. That's the idea that you


00:35:29.839 --> 00:35:31.829
get the private sector to do it, which


00:35:31.839 --> 00:35:34.310
probably means SpaceX and Blue Origin


00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.150
and companies like that. Um, and so, uh,


00:35:38.160 --> 00:35:40.630
it's it would be a remarkably big change


00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:43.109
to what's currently planned. So, the


00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:47.030
the, uh, the launch vehicles for Artemis


00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:49.670
are the space launch system SLS, which


00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:53.750
uses recycled um shuttle components, uh,


00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.150
and the Orion capsule. Uh that's what


00:35:56.160 --> 00:35:57.270
we've just been talking about. The


00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.870
capsule will hold uh uh astronauts. Uh


00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.270
the idea would be to phase it out after


00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.069
the three flights after Artimus 3. So


00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.910
that includes the SLS as well. That


00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.430
would go Yeah. And what I found in


00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.710
regard like 24.3% funding cut that is a


00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:19.510
huge huge cut. It is. Um and and most of


00:36:19.520 --> 00:36:21.510
that will be felt in the space and earth


00:36:21.520 --> 00:36:23.589
science divisions of NASA. And when you


00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:25.109
look at what they do, space science


00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:27.430
division does helopysics, planetary


00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.109
science and astrophysics. And the earth


00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.069
science division uh looks at atmospheric


00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.870
sciences, oceanography, land sciences,


00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.190
cryossphere technology, biosphere


00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:39.190
technology. I would have thought they


00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:41.349
were pretty important areas, but yes.


00:36:41.359 --> 00:36:42.870
Yes, that's right. Yeah, they they could


00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.589
get hammered in this uh if this budget


00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.190
cut goes ahead. Uh do you think um Elon


00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:51.190
has sort of been saying to Mr. Trump,


00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:53.190
look, I can do this. You don't have to


00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:55.510
pay for that.


00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:57.430
I I couldn't possibly guess at the


00:36:57.440 --> 00:36:59.190
conversations that go between those two,


00:36:59.200 --> 00:37:02.550
but I wouldn't be surprised.


00:37:02.560 --> 00:37:04.550
Yeah, it's a it's a bit of a worry. I


00:37:04.560 --> 00:37:07.349
Someone else told me that um they've


00:37:07.359 --> 00:37:10.470
totally cut funding to um National


00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:13.109
Public Radio, NPS, which is that was the


00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.510
US equivalent to the ABC. So, I I heard


00:37:15.520 --> 00:37:18.310
that. Yeah. So, um that that's fairly


00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.310
tragic, I think, in the scheme of


00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:23.030
things. Yeah. So this this this these


00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:26.190
budget proposals uh have to go to the US


00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:29.030
Congress uh because they appropriate the


00:37:29.040 --> 00:37:33.270
funds um and it you know it's remains to


00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.829
be seen uh what happens after that. The


00:37:35.839 --> 00:37:38.150
Congress is fairly evenly balanced I


00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:40.470
think politically. So


00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.950
we'll see unlike unlike our new


00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.630
government that's just been elected


00:37:44.640 --> 00:37:46.790
because it's looking pretty lopsided at


00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.150
the moment. Uh yeah, quite a quite a


00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:53.030
quite a result that was. Um okay, thank


00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:55.109
you Fred. If you'd like to look into


00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:57.430
that story about the budget, potential


00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.470
budget cuts to NASA, spaceflight now.com


00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.430
is the website. Uh we're all done, Fred.


00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:05.750
Thank you. Uh it's been a pleasure. Uh


00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.390
always good to talk and uh to bring us


00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.150
ourselves up to date as well as


00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:11.750
everybody else on what's going on in the


00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:13.750
world of space and astronomy. Very true.


00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:15.030
All right. We'll catch you on the next


00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:17.190
episode. Thank you, Fred. Professor Fred


00:38:17.200 --> 00:38:19.910
Watson, astronomer at large. And uh we


00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.750
would say thanks to Hugh in the studio,


00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.310
but um he's not with us. Budget cuts and


00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.390
all. You know how it goes. Uh and don't


00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:27.990
forget to visit us on our website,


00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.710
social media, and please leave reviews


00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:33.109
on your favorite podcasting platform.


00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.190
Apparently, they're quite helpful. And


00:38:35.200 --> 00:38:36.870
from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your


00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:38.390
company. See you on the next episode of


00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.190
Space Nuts. Bye-bye. Space Nuts. You've


00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:45.270
been listening to the Space Nuts podcast


00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.230
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:50.870
iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.710
player. You can also stream on demand at


00:38:53.720 --> 00:38:56.150
bytes.com. This has been another quality


00:38:56.160 --> 00:39:00.680
podcast production from byes.com.