Lava Tubes on Venus, Elon Musk’s Lunar Pivot & Titan’s Mysterious Origins | Space Nuts:...

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is


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Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy and


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space science. My name is Andrew Dunley.


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It's great to have your company yet


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again. And if you're a brand new


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listener, welcome along. Hope you enjoy


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it and hope you stick around. On this


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episode, we will be focusing on a whole


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bunch of different types of stuff. Uh


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the first one is a new paper that's been


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released suggesting that there are lava


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tubes on Venus. How do they know? We


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can't even see it. Well, they've got


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some evidence that they think points the


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finger at Venus's lava tubes. Uh Elon


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Musk, who has for many years been


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saying, "I'm going to send people to


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Mars and they're going to live there."


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He's changed his mind. He's got a new


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target. We'll tell you about that. Uh


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China has tested a reusable booster and


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Saturn's moon Titan might have


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previously been two moons. We'll talk


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about all of that on this episode of


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Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And joining us again in his spare time


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um is Professor Fred Watson, astropher


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at large. Hello Fred.


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>> Hello Andrew. Um very good to see you.


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And I see that the launches are going


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well behind your head there. It looks


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great.


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>> Yes, that's that's a photo I took inside


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the sphere in Las Vegas. We watched a a


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presentation there uh about a year ago


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now. And uh one of the the pictures was


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all these rockets taking off. Um it it


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it looked so nice. I took the photo and


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there they are. Yeah, a bunch of them.


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That's humanity leaving Earth because we


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made such a mess of it they couldn't


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leave here anymore. That's what that


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represents.


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It's um yeah quite a it was a really


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interesting story and people people came


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back to visit Earth as tourists because


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and they had to wear spac suits because


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you couldn't breathe here anymore.


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>> Um that's a really good segue into one


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of our stories today. So


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>> yeah,


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>> well thought.


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>> Yes. Well, let's let's get started


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because uh our very first story involves


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a planet not unlike Earth at some time


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in its history, but it's suffering a


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runaway greenhouse effect and it is now


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um unlivable.


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But we are trying so hard to learn as


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much as we can about Venus and because


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it's shrouded in cloud and you can't see


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the surface, we we have to use um


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different techniques to to see what's


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going on. And a new paper has just been


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published suggesting that there are lava


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tubes on this particular world. This


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should not come as a surprise because we


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know it's got so many volcanoes. We


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don't know if they're still active, but


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we know it's got it's got more than


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anywhere else, hasn't it? It has. You're


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absolutely right. Um it's, if I remember


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rightly, the numbers 2,000. Gosh.


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>> Uh for Earth, it's something like 1,400.


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I think that's um from statistics I


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wrote down for a book once once upon a


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time. Um the um uh but but you're


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absolutely right. We simply don't know


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whether any of those uh 2,000 volcanoes


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are actually still active. Uh we you and


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I have spoken about this before and


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there's sort of circumstantial evidence


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that there might still be activity or


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there might have been activity within


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the within the last million years which


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sounds like a rather large window except


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it may well be that you know people have


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thought that uh these things shut down


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three and a half billion years ago. So


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if there's been activity within the last


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million years then it's still happening.


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That's the bottom line. Um but yeah, so


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you're quite right. In a body as


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volcanically


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um not active perhaps, but with a with a


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past history of being active, you might


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expect uh to find lava tubes. And you


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and I have both walked through lava


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tubes in Hawaii


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>> um and um experienced what they're like.


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And my recollection of those is that


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there are just a few meters in diameter,


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maybe three or four meters, perhaps


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five. Well, the news with this lava tube


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is that it is about a kilometer wide.


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>> Wow.


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>> Really?


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>> Yeah, it's a big one.


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>> Wow.


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>> Where does the evidence come from?


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Because you're quite right. We cannot


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directly see the surface of Venus.


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Although I should give a shout out to my


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late friend and colleague David Allen.


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Uh sadly passed away in 1994,


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I think.


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um uh he was at the age of only 47. He


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actually observed for the first time the


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surface of Venus from a groundbased


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telescope. It was the Anglo Australian


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telescope here in New South Wales. Um


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and he was using infrared radiation and


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he found evidence that he could actually


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penetrate to the surface. Now there


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wasn't actually very much to see. Um and


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um uh most of what we know about the


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surface of Venus has come from a


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spacecraft called Mellin uh which was in


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orbit between 1990 and 1992 around the


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planet Venus. It was a NASA spacecraft


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and had something called synthetic


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aperture radar on board.


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Collected a huge trove of data on the


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surface of Venus. It's how we know there


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are volcanoes there. It's how we know uh


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that you know there are rocky features.


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uh lots and lots of different uh what


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you might call ignous rock features.


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Those are the ones that are created by


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volcanoes. Uh and it's now a reanalysis


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of some of those data by a group uh at


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the remote sensing laboratory at the


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University of Torrento in uh Italy. Um


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they have uh coordinated the reanalysis


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of the data and basically have looked


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for evidence of what are called


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skylights. And a skylight is a hole in


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the roof of a of a lava tube as you'd


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expect. It kind of gives it away. And


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I'm sure I I recall seeing skylights in


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lava tubes in Hawaii as well. Um but


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what they found is evidence not just for


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a roof collapse which could be you know


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any old cave uh under the surface whose


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roof was collapsed but to to show that


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there is uh there there is a a sort of


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um a channel on on either side of that


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collapsed roof. Um, in other words, a,


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you know, a a a subsurface cavity that


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is is going


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backwards and forwards, if I can put it


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that way, as well as just downwards. Uh,


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so what you're talking about is, yes, a


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lava tube. Um, lava tubes, uh, as you


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and I probably both aware, uh, are


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formed by flowing lava. Uh but what


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happens is the the lava sort of develops


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a a crust uh as the the lava flow is


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carried on. Uh and that crust of solid


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lava basically insulates the hot lava


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that's flowing from its uh frozen


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surroundings. Yeah. Uh and so solidified


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surroundings. And so you've got the


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molten rock just keeps on moving. Uh and


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then eventually when the eruption stops,


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the lava drains away and you've got an


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empty tunnel that fence the lava tube.


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>> Yes.


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>> Uh and so that's what we're talking


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about here. The roof is thought to be


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pretty deep. This all comes from these


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radar measurements. At least 150 m


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thick. And so then you've got an empty


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void that goes down uh at least 375 m.


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uh and the uh as I said the the the the


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width or the the estimated diameter of


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this lava tube is a kilometer. Uh now


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that's very very big. Yes. Uh it's um


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and as there's a very nice article about


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this on space daily and they say uh that


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is at the upper end of of what


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scientists have suggested or observed


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for similar structures on the moon and


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above the typical sizes expected on


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Earth or Mars. Uh but the uh the


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research team have commented that this


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is consistent with Venus having lava


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channels that are much larger and


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probably longer than those on the other


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planets or the other the the other lava


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rich worlds like the moon and the planet


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Mars. So really interesting stuff. Um


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are we going to go and explore one of


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these? Well, that's a really good


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question given the temperature is what


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is it 450 Celsius or melts.


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>> Uh and um yeah,


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>> be much cooler in the lava tube. I


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reckon


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>> probably would might drop at least 5° in


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the lava tube.


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>> You'd be right. Yeah,


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>> there is um there's a suggestion from


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these researchers and I think it's based


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on sort of circumstantial evidence that


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some of these conduits in the same


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region as the the hole that they found


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could could run for well they suggest at


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least 45 kilometers.


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>> Wow.


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>> Um and uh yeah, that's quite quite


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remarkable. These are lava tubes, you


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know, the granddaddies of all lava


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tubes.


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>> Yes. Well, they're coming out of a uh


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volcano called Nyx Mons,


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>> which is a a shield volcano like Olympus


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Mons. It's not as big, but it is it is


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rather huge. It's um about 362


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kilometers across is this particular


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volcano according to the uh the article


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I I've just found. But uh yeah, Nyxmon's


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named after a um Greek goddess


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apparently


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>> of of darkness, isn't it? Isn't it? I it


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would be Yeah. Nick


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>> Mount Darkness or something.


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>> Yeah. Yeah. I I do have a recollection


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that Nyx has something to do with the


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underworld or something to that effect.


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But uh yeah. Um lava tubes on Venus,


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lava tubes on the moon, lava tubes on


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Earth, lava tubes on Mars. They're


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everywhere, Fred.


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>> Well, yes. Who gets excited about lava


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tubes when they're that common?


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>> Well, if you're on Venus, cuz they're so


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big. and and you do if you're going to


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sort of create a colony on Mars or even


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the moon just to protect them from


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radiation. So, uh yeah, the these things


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were put there for a reason. See, that's


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what it was.


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>> I'm sure somebody would say that.


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>> Yeah, maybe. So, but um yeah, great


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story and uh also good to see that some


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of that old data dating back


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>> Yeah.


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>> over 30 years has been reanalyzed and


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we've been able to learn more from it.


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Uh, I'm loving that that's happening


00:10:56.160 --> 00:10:58.069
more and more these days. If you want to


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read about it, uh, as Fred said, it's on


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spaceaily.com or you can read the paper


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proper from start to finish. It's only


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about 5,000 pages at Nature


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Communications.


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Now, Fred, we we talked about Mars. We


00:11:11.839 --> 00:11:13.430
might as well go straight to that


00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.710
planet. uh because uh in the past uh we


00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:18.949
have talked about plans by a certain


00:11:18.959 --> 00:11:23.190
Elon Musk uh to send people to Mars and


00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.470
colonize. Um now I know how you feel


00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.310
about colonization of anything beyond


00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.990
Earth. Uh but it looks like he's decided


00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.030
probably not time to consider that.


00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:37.110
Let's let's bite off something we can


00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.949
chew.


00:11:38.959 --> 00:11:43.670
>> Uh exactly. Um and not before time.


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So, you know, Elon's Mars aspirations go


00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.069
back 20 years or more, I think, to right


00:11:50.079 --> 00:11:52.069
to the beginning of SpaceX. And of


00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:53.670
course, his main reason for developing


00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:56.389
the Starship was to be able to uh


00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.190
transport large numbers of people to the


00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:02.310
planet Mars. And so, he has successfully


00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.269
developed Starship and it um is still


00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.949
under test. Uh we're I think we're on


00:12:08.959 --> 00:12:11.190
test number 18's coming up if I remember


00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:12.949
rightly of the whole Starship package


00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:16.870
with the Falcon Super Heavy uh and the


00:12:16.880 --> 00:12:19.509
um uh the and the Starship itself which


00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:24.310
is the upper stage. Uh but that uh so


00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.150
that's it's not quite ready, but it's


00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:29.110
certainly getting there. Uh but the


00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.670
penny has finally dropped that it's a


00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:33.750
lot harder to go to Mars than it is to


00:12:33.760 --> 00:12:34.550
the moon.


00:12:34.560 --> 00:12:37.190
>> Exactly. and he he has a deal with NASA.


00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.150
He's one of the two companies that is uh


00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:43.269
um competing for the rights to land or


00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.829
to be the landing vehicle on the moon


00:12:45.839 --> 00:12:50.550
for the artimus 3 um and beyond the in


00:12:50.560 --> 00:12:52.629
other words the lunar program. Uh the


00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.870
other company is is Blue Origin with


00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:57.110
Jeff Bezos. Uh they've got a lunar


00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.990
lander that looks a lot more sensible in


00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.470
many ways than Starship. Starship's a


00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:04.150
huge thing to land it on the moon. If


00:13:04.160 --> 00:13:06.230
you get things wrong, you've got a big


00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.949
disaster on your hands. Anyway, um that


00:13:08.959 --> 00:13:12.150
I think has what has focused Elon again


00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:15.350
on the moon rather than Mars. Plus the


00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.750
fact that um as it he's pointed out in


00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:23.750
he sent out a a text on this or a or a


00:13:23.760 --> 00:13:27.910
blog or social media thingo uh which


00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:29.190
said


00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.310
>> we had it on X. It might have been X.


00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:33.910
Yes, it's funny you should say that.


00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:36.629
Anyway, he's he's suggesting that one of


00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:38.629
the reasons is that you can you can go


00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.269
to the moon every 10 days. Uh you can


00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:45.269
only go to Mars uh every 26 months. Uh


00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:46.870
plus you've got a six-month journey


00:13:46.880 --> 00:13:48.629
there, whereas you can probably do it in


00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.430
three or four days for the moon. Um, and


00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:56.710
in some senses it gives you the same


00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.910
outcome for the main reason that Elon


00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.670
wanted to go to Mars, which was to


00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:04.629
provide a lifeboat for the inhabitants


00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:08.069
of planet Earth. Um Elon decided a long


00:14:08.079 --> 00:14:10.949
time ago uh like the spacecraft behind


00:14:10.959 --> 00:14:13.430
you at the moment uh that the earth was


00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.710
doomed uh and um that we needed


00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.030
somewhere else to go to ensure the


00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:22.389
survival of homo sapiens. Um that's a in


00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.430
in many ways is a is a a lordable um


00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.470
aspiration. But then his next thought


00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:30.870
was going and trampling all over Mars.


00:14:30.880 --> 00:14:34.790
Uh but I think just the I mean you and I


00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:36.150
have been talking about this for a long


00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:39.110
time how difficult it is going to be to


00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.990
put humans on Mars. Uh just because of


00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.269
the journey there at least 6 months you


00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:46.949
can't come back until you've waited


00:14:46.959 --> 00:14:48.949
another 6 months or so until the moon


00:14:48.959 --> 00:14:50.629
and sorry the earth and Mars are in the


00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.949
right uh position relative to one


00:14:52.959 --> 00:14:54.470
another and then you've got a six-month


00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.590
journey back. It's just such a difficult


00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.470
um venture to imagine. And plus, you've


00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.310
got a pretty hostile environment when


00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.470
you're there. The moon's hostile, too,


00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.710
but it's a lot nearer. And you know, in


00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.590
an emergency, as we know from uh Apollo


00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.829
13, you can get your astronauts back.


00:15:11.839 --> 00:15:12.389
>> Yes.


00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.550
>> So, it's that's the it's like an


00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:17.189
epiphany, which I'm delighted to see to


00:15:17.199 --> 00:15:18.550
be honest.


00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:20.230
>> Yeah. Coming back to reality.


00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.949
>> I think it's a logical decision. Uh the


00:15:22.959 --> 00:15:25.670
day will come when we do send people to


00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:27.110
Mars, but I think


00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:27.670
>> that's right.


00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:30.790
>> It's a lot further off than uh Elon was


00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:32.550
hoping and he's already passed a couple


00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:34.550
of the deadlines. So


00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:36.550
>> Oh, yeah. indeed. Yes.


00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:38.870
>> It was going to be 2024 when they


00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:40.949
started talking about this in 2016.


00:15:40.959 --> 00:15:41.910
>> Yes.


00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:43.990
>> And I think most people thought then


00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.230
that was probably, you know, shooting


00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.710
too high um or too far.


00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.910
>> Do you remember Mars One? the uh the guy


00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:54.870
who conned everybody into training for a


00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:56.870
one-way journey to Mars, which was going


00:15:56.880 --> 00:16:00.949
to use uh SpaceX vehicles. So,


00:16:00.959 --> 00:16:03.990
>> uh Elon was kind of in on that.


00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.470
>> Yeah. Um well, it one day it will


00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.350
happen. Um yes,


00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.949
>> I think we've got to get it all sorted


00:16:10.959 --> 00:16:12.870
out for the moon first and


00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:15.590
>> exactly then then we can springboard to


00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.230
Mars and who knows where beyond that.


00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.030
Um, but you know, it's going to take


00:16:21.040 --> 00:16:22.470
time and you got to have the right


00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:23.990
equipment and I don't think we've really


00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:29.269
got the gear to do a journey to Mars


00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.310
yet. There's so much about the human


00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.470
body you got to take into account. Not


00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.150
just the life support, but you got to


00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:37.749
consider that um, you know, they're


00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.829
going to be up there for at least what,


00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.749
18 months, something like that. Um,


00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.030
yeah, it's a long time. You're going to


00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:48.710
be away for at least 18 months. That's


00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:49.189
right.


00:16:49.199 --> 00:16:50.870
>> Yeah. So, your your body's going to be


00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:53.110
affected by that because the gravity


00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:55.829
that you enjoy and take for granted on


00:16:55.839 --> 00:16:58.230
Earth that keeps your body the way it is


00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.910
won't be there. So, yeah, all these


00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:05.029
things um once once they've they've


00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:07.510
perfected um artificial gravity in


00:17:07.520 --> 00:17:10.309
space, uh then we might start seeing


00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.230
movement towards Mars.


00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.470
>> Yeah, we're not there yet. Uh, you can


00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.150
read that story at spaceaily.com.


00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.110
This is Spacenuts with Andrew Dunley and


00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:24.470
Professor Fred Watson.


00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:25.909
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base here the angle has landed


00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:38.310
>> space nuts.


00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:40.549
>> The next story brings us back to the


00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.470
space race and of course we've been


00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.870
talking with much excitement about the


00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.630
prospect of Artemus 2 uh taking


00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.669
astronauts around the moon, four of them


00:19:51.679 --> 00:19:53.750
and bringing them back safely to Earth.


00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:55.110
They won't be landing or walking around


00:19:55.120 --> 00:19:58.549
on the surface in this case, but uh they


00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.830
are delayed, but getting closer to a


00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:05.270
liftoff, we hope. In the meantime,


00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:07.750
there's another space agency that is


00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:10.630
very very keen to put people on the moon


00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.669
and that's uh that's the China space


00:20:13.679 --> 00:20:16.789
agency, the China man space agency. Uh


00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.950
and they have just tested their own


00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.710
version of a reusable booster.


00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.310
Indeed, they have. In fact, they've done


00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:26.870
a double test uh Andrew. So, they've


00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.830
already demonstrated uh that I think


00:20:29.840 --> 00:20:33.110
it's their Long March 10 rocket uh can


00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:36.390
be returned uh safely back to Earth. Uh


00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.310
so, the the idea of reusable boosters


00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:44.149
goes back once again to Elon in 2015


00:20:44.159 --> 00:20:47.750
when the first Falcon uh returned safely


00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:50.470
to Earth to be reused. And now that's


00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.350
the normal way they do it. And so uh and


00:20:53.360 --> 00:20:55.669
it will be the same with the Starship uh


00:20:55.679 --> 00:20:59.190
super heavy booster. Um so it's it's a


00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.470
sort of um one company has has basically


00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.270
nailed it. Uh but another number of


00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:08.070
other companies are doing the same or


00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:09.909
attempting the same thing. Blue Origin


00:21:09.919 --> 00:21:11.990
is one of them. Jeff Bezos's company,


00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.470
they've had a success as well. And the


00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.390
China man space agency has also uh


00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.470
tested reusable boosters. And the latest


00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.909
test is a kind of double test because


00:21:25.919 --> 00:21:28.310
not only have they tested the reusable


00:21:28.320 --> 00:21:31.990
booster, they have tested their new uh


00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.270
spacecraft which is the one intended to


00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:38.710
take uh tyonauts to the moon. Uh it's


00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.750
called Mang Xiao. If I remember rightly


00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:44.630
that means uh something dream I think. I


00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.310
can't remember what the exact


00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:48.630
translation is but it's a lovely name.


00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.470
Uh so Mang Xiao is um the spacecraft


00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:57.029
that will take astronauts from Earth


00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.870
probably to lunar orbit, but then


00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:02.789
there'll be a separate landing vehicle.


00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.870
So they'll transfer to a lander which


00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.310
will take them down to the surface.


00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:08.470
That's a bit like the architecture


00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:13.110
that's being planned for Arteimus 3. uh


00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:14.950
as far as I'm aware of or certainly ones


00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.470
beyond that that you're you're talking


00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.230
about having a a separate lander in


00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.590
orbit around the moon. So uh that's the


00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:23.909
test but there's another element of this


00:22:23.919 --> 00:22:25.270
that was tested in this new


00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:27.830
demonstration and that is the Manga


00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:30.950
spacecraft like most of the crude


00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.830
capsules uh that we see going into orbit


00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:35.909
and certainly the Apollo capsule does


00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:38.789
this as does the the SpaceX Dragon


00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.669
capsule Crew Dragon uh that is the


00:22:41.679 --> 00:22:44.870
launch abort system. In other words, the


00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:47.029
way of getting the capsule off the top


00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.669
of the rocket if something goes wrong.


00:22:49.679 --> 00:22:53.029
Um, and they demonstrated that by uh


00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:57.110
getting the Mang Xiao capsule to um um


00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:01.430
leave the uh long long march 10 rocket


00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:05.270
uh at a fairly early stage in the uh in


00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:07.750
the flight and it was just about the


00:23:07.760 --> 00:23:09.590
time of what we call max Q where you've


00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:13.029
got maximum aerodynamic pressure on the


00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.830
vehicle. the the the the abort motors


00:23:15.840 --> 00:23:18.710
that fitted in the Mangja spacecraft


00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.029
pulled it away from the booster um


00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.630
exactly as you would do if you were


00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.110
trying to escape from u you know


00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:27.590
something dangerous going on with your


00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:30.390
booster rocket and it it all worked very


00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.510
very successfully. Uh very interesting


00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:38.149
to read. I think the the China um man


00:23:38.159 --> 00:23:41.190
space agency uh their program is well on


00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.149
track. Uh they are have all along said


00:23:44.159 --> 00:23:46.950
they want to have uh tyonauts on the


00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.990
moon by 2030. Uh and it looks as though


00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.510
they're well on the way to doing that.


00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:54.549
Here we are in 2026. Yeah. Look, they're


00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.230
um they're doing some impressive things


00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.510
and they have become probably


00:23:59.520 --> 00:24:01.750
the major player next to the United


00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:05.590
States in space exploration. Uh Russia


00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:07.430
seems to have fallen a little behind,


00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:09.350
but they've got their attention focused


00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:11.269
elsewhere at the moment. But um that's


00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:11.669
right.


00:24:11.679 --> 00:24:14.230
>> It it's it I I think it's good. Uh it's


00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:18.710
it's healthy competition. Uh and I I


00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.789
think you know having a new race to the


00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.830
moon situation is is very exciting and


00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:26.310
uh I I can't wait to see how it all pans


00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:29.110
out. Uh and I did look up the


00:24:29.120 --> 00:24:31.990
translation for Mju or Ming Xiao and


00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.510
it's dream vessel.


00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:33.990
>> Yes.


00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.390
>> Or dream boat if you like. You could go


00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.549
either way, but um yeah. Um they've come


00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.549
a long way since releasing the motor


00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.630
vehicle known as the Cherry, which


00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.390
didn't do so great in Australia,


00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.789
but um they're doing wonderful things


00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:53.510
now. In fact, I I think uh it's a


00:24:53.520 --> 00:24:56.950
Chinese car company that owns um MG now


00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.590
and is producing new models of the MG


00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:02.470
motor car, which is readily available in


00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.630
Australia. So um and they're selling a


00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:06.789
lot of them. They're they're quite a a


00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.870
popular vehicle uh in this country. I


00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.070
don't know how they're going elsewhere,


00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:12.310
but uh and of course they've got the


00:25:12.320 --> 00:25:16.149
build your dreams uh electric vehicle uh


00:25:16.159 --> 00:25:17.990
that's making inroads around the world.


00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.909
And um I first saw them when we were in


00:25:19.919 --> 00:25:22.549
China a couple of years ago. Uh they're


00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.029
doing amazing things technologically on


00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.310
Earth and in space. Uh and and I I look


00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:29.909
forward to seeing how far they take it.


00:25:29.919 --> 00:25:31.430
They might get to Mars before anyone


00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:32.630
else. Fred,


00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.510
>> maybe that's not impossible. No, not at


00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:35.909
all.


00:25:35.919 --> 00:25:38.310
>> Uh it's yeah, it's a program to be


00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:40.310
admired. It's uh it's certainly going


00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.070
well.


00:25:42.080 --> 00:25:45.750
>> Okay. Uh you can read all about that um


00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:48.390
test run of the Mangu spacecraft and the


00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:53.909
reusable booster at arsenchnica.com.


00:25:53.919 --> 00:25:55.430
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00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:35.350
>> Think we need to do a little more all


00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:37.029
weather testing.


00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:37.669
>> Amen.


00:27:37.679 --> 00:27:41.110
>> Space nuts. Uh, one last story, Fred,


00:27:41.120 --> 00:27:44.470
and this one takes us uh into um some of


00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.390
the outer reaches of our solar system,


00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.870
or at least getting on your way there.


00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.190
Uh, Saturn's moon, Titan. Now, we've


00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.990
talked about Titan multiple times over


00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.029
the last several years, for one reason


00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.950
or another. Um, now they have suggested


00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.909
that Titan might have previously been


00:28:03.919 --> 00:28:06.710
two moons or maybe more and there was


00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.029
some kind of event that brought it all


00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.870
together.


00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.950
That's right. Uh, and so what's sort of


00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:22.389
prompted this is the idea that Titan's


00:28:22.399 --> 00:28:29.750
orbit has evolved. Uh and it's basically


00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.830
um the the the you know the


00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:36.470
gravitational pull of Saturn that uh


00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.549
stabilizes the orbit. You'd expect an


00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:40.470
orbit eventually to become more or less


00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:44.950
circular but Titans isn't. Uh and so


00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:50.230
what people have looked at is uh okay um


00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.149
what happens if we um sort of replay the


00:28:54.159 --> 00:28:57.350
thing backwards to look at what that


00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:59.669
orbit might have looked like maybe 100


00:28:59.679 --> 00:29:01.590
million years ago.


00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:04.470
>> Uh and it's


00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.190
that's 100 million years. It looks as


00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.789
though something did happen. Um there is


00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:16.870
uh the idea of a collision uh between um


00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:19.510
something that was large and something


00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:22.230
that was small. And the remnants of that


00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.310
collision still exist today. One is


00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:27.430
Titan. The other is Hyperion which is a


00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.990
very famous potato


00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.230
uh moon very odd shape uh which is also


00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.990
in a in a elongated or eccentric orbit.


00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.630
Uh but so you what you do is you replay


00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:42.470
their orbits back and you find that


00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.230
there might have been some sort of


00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.510
interaction about 100 million years ago.


00:29:47.520 --> 00:29:50.389
But of course that 100 million years uh


00:29:50.399 --> 00:29:52.310
rings a bell with anybody interested in


00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:53.830
Saturn because that's how old we think


00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:56.549
the rings are. Uh and so the suggestion


00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.789
is that there were two of these moons


00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.750
that collided a big one and a small one.


00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:04.630
Um and the debris um some of it would


00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.029
have enhanced the size of Titan, some of


00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.630
it would have enhanced the size probably


00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.950
of Hyperion. Uh and some of it would


00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.909
have created the ring system. Uh and


00:30:13.919 --> 00:30:16.630
that's the really rather neat and tidy


00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.909
story that is coming out of this piece


00:30:19.919 --> 00:30:23.269
of research which um uh comes actually


00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.750
from uh the SETI institute the uh the um


00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:29.590
kind of stressful intelligence.


00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:32.710
>> Yep. there's a still a pretty active uh


00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.110
group of scientists at SETI.


00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:37.669
>> Um


00:30:37.679 --> 00:30:39.029
>> yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good. It's good


00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.350
that they're sort of not just focused on


00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:43.350
the one thing. They they're working on


00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:47.110
um on other um things that are happening


00:30:47.120 --> 00:30:49.909
in in space science. Uh Titan's an


00:30:49.919 --> 00:30:51.110
interesting world. I think it's the


00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:54.470
second largest moon in solar system or


00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:54.950
second.


00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:56.149
>> It is. That's correct.


00:30:56.159 --> 00:30:58.230
>> And and it it's got an atmosphere.


00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.950
though whatever happened to it certainly


00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:05.190
created an interesting situation.


00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.590
>> Uh that's right. Um sorry I was I've


00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:09.269
I've lost you on my screens. I've just


00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:10.950
found you again. That's why it's


00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.510
preoccupied. Um not only is it the


00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:15.830
second biggest uh moon in the solar


00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:16.950
system. It's actually bigger than


00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:19.830
Mercury. Uh and it's a very large object


00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:22.389
and of great interest with um you know


00:31:22.399 --> 00:31:25.269
the Dragonfly uh mission being planned


00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:27.110
to fly through the atmosphere, an


00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:28.710
octacopter that will fly through the


00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:30.870
atmosphere of Titan and send us back


00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.029
hopefully pictures of the ethane and


00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.310
methane lakes on Titan's icy surface.


00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.549
The surface of Titan is just solid ice.


00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:40.630
So yeah, an interesting insight into the


00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.669
history of Titan and also um just sort


00:31:43.679 --> 00:31:45.909
of adds to the intrigue when we go and


00:31:45.919 --> 00:31:47.509
when we finally do go and have a close


00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.549
look at Titan.


00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.710
>> Yes, indeed. Yeah. A fascinating world


00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.350
and another one that would not really be


00:31:53.360 --> 00:31:55.190
good for humans to wander around, right?


00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:55.909
>> That's right.


00:31:55.919 --> 00:31:56.710
>> Yeah.




00:31:57.360 --> 00:31:58.950
>> We're surrounded by all of that, aren't


00:31:58.960 --> 00:31:59.830
we?


00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:02.149
>> Yeah. Which is um not really a


00:32:02.159 --> 00:32:04.070
coincidence, is it? Cuz the only place


00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.149
we can live is the one where we evolved


00:32:06.159 --> 00:32:10.149
on. So indeed. M uh but uh it's a great


00:32:10.159 --> 00:32:12.389
story. Uh who'd have thunk it? Two moons


00:32:12.399 --> 00:32:15.350
that created one and that is what we


00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:17.430
call Titan. Uh if you'd like to read up


00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:21.750
on that, it's on uh the fizz.org


00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:24.549
website, phys, or you can read the paper


00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.950
in the planetary science journal. And we


00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.990
are done. Fred, thank you very much.


00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.590
>> That's uh isn't that episode 601 that we


00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:36.310
finished? Yeah.


00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:37.830
>> Yes, indeed. Wow.


00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:41.430
>> But time flies when you're having fun.


00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:43.350
>> Certainly does. Uh thank you, Andrew.


00:32:43.360 --> 00:32:44.710
It's always great to chat.


00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.310
>> We'll catch you soon on the next


00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:48.630
episode, which will be a Q&A episode uh


00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:51.430
coming up soon. And um don't forget to


00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.110
visit us online in the meantime. You can


00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:55.110
do that at spacenutspodcast.com or


00:32:55.120 --> 00:32:57.590
spacenuts.io. You can visit our social


00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:00.310
media pages, the official Space Nuts


00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:03.590
Facebook page or the Instagram uh site


00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:06.710
or you can go to the uh the the user


00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.950
generated Facebook page which is the


00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.190
Space Nuts podcast group which is


00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.110
growing in number. Let me have a look.


00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:17.110
2,700 plus members in uh in that uh


00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:18.950
Facebook group at the moment and uh they


00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.710
all chat to each other and tell terrible


00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.389
jokes. So uh check it out and thanks to


00:33:24.399 --> 00:33:26.870
Hugh in the studio. Hugh um couldn't be


00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.269
with us today because he was um out last


00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.590
Saturday night and something about two


00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:35.669
moons. Anyway, got arrested. And from


00:33:35.679 --> 00:33:38.149
from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your


00:33:38.159 --> 00:33:40.950
company. Catch catch you on the next


00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.950
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:43.909
>> Space Nuts.


00:33:43.919 --> 00:33:45.990
>> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.310
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00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:51.269
>> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


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iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:33:53.919 --> 00:33:56.310
player. You can also stream on demand at


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