Jan. 4, 2026

Gravity Questions, Cosmic Energy & Hidden Galaxies | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic...

Gravity Questions, Cosmic Energy & Hidden Galaxies | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic...
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Gravity Questions, Cosmic Energy & Hidden Galaxies | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic...

This episode originally aired in 2024.

Cosmic Q&A: Gravity, Energy, and Hidden Galaxies

In this thought-provoking holiday repeat episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson dive into listener questions that explore the intricate relationships between gravity, energy, and the cosmos. With inquiries from Steve, Gus, and Nick, the discussion spans the nature of gravity, the implications of energy on gravitational fields, and the mysteries of galaxy movements.

Episode Highlights:

- Gravity Without Mass: Steve from New Zealand poses a fascinating question about the possibility of gravity existing without mass. Andrew and Fred discuss the theoretical implications and whether energy can contribute to gravitational effects, referencing concepts like thermal energy and dark matter.

- Energy and Gravity: Gus from Jessica, Washington, raises an intriguing point about the equivalence of mass and energy and its relationship to gravity. The hosts navigate the complexities of gravitational energy and ponder whether the energy of gravitational fields could influence mass.

- Hidden Galaxies: Nick from Auckland, New Zealand, wonders if there are early galaxies moving towards us that we can't yet see. The discussion delves into the concepts of redshift and peculiar motion, clarifying how the expansion of the universe affects our observations of distant galaxies.

- Listener Engagement: The episode wraps up with Andrew and Fred encouraging listeners to keep sending in their questions, fostering a sense of community and curiosity about the universe.

For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.

If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about) .

Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .

Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/30952966?utm_source=youtube

WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en

00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.710
Hi there. This is Space Nuts Q&A. My


00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.309
name is Andrew Dunley. Great to have


00:00:04.319 --> 00:00:05.910
your company. Coming up on this episode,


00:00:05.920 --> 00:00:08.310
we'll answer questions from Steve, Gus,


00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:10.549
and Nick. Uh Steve and Gus are sort of


00:00:10.559 --> 00:00:13.830
focused on the same thing, gravity.


00:00:13.840 --> 00:00:15.990
Steve wants to know if it can exist


00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.950
without mass. Uh and and Gus is talking


00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.189
about gravity and energy, and what's the


00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.790
relationship? And Nick is asking about


00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:26.710
galaxy movements, and are any moving


00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:29.589
towards us that we can't see yet?


00:00:29.599 --> 00:00:31.349
Well, we don't know. We can't see them


00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.270
yet. Uh, but we'll see if we can tackle


00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.069
all of that on this episode of Space


00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:36.790
Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:52.869
>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


00:00:52.879 --> 00:00:55.270
>> Here he is again. Professor Fred Watson.


00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.470
Hello, Fred. Hello, Andrew. Hello. How


00:00:58.480 --> 00:01:00.389
are you doing now?


00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.149
>> I'm doing the same as I was before.


00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:05.189
>> How about you?


00:01:05.199 --> 00:01:07.429
>> Uh, well, I'm I'm still doing the same


00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.149
as I was before. Yes, that's right. And


00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:11.750
I hope to be doing the same again very


00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:12.950
soon.


00:01:12.960 --> 00:01:17.590
>> Yes, indeed. Yes. Shall we just sort of


00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:19.749
muck in and get these questions sorted


00:01:19.759 --> 00:01:23.510
out? I I it was a like a couple of weeks


00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:26.469
ago we we had um gravity questions


00:01:26.479 --> 00:01:28.630
coming in thick and fast. Uh no black


00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.469
hole questions but today it's gravity


00:01:30.479 --> 00:01:31.510
questions this


00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:34.149
>> and our first our first one comes from


00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:35.590
Steve.


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>> Hi guys, my name is Steve. I'm uh from


00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:43.030
New Zealand. Um really enjoy your show.


00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.550
recently read a article


00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.630
implying that uh gravity could be


00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.350
possible without mass


00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:57.030
and um I'm wondering if that would be uh


00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:02.389
another alternative explanation uh to um


00:02:02.399 --> 00:02:07.749
uh to dark matter and to uh Mond.


00:02:07.759 --> 00:02:09.270
Yeah, I don't know if that makes it very


00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:11.670
clear to you. Anyway, thanks. All right.


00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:13.350
Uh Steve, thanks for the question.


00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.510
Gravity without mass. Well, I doubt that


00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:19.589
uh we can turn to the Catholic Church


00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.550
because they do they do have mass. Um


00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.810
but


00:02:24.820 --> 00:02:27.110
[Music]


00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:28.630
terrible. Uh it's an interesting


00:02:28.640 --> 00:02:33.670
question though. It is. And um so yeah,


00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.229
my reading on this, excuse me, is is


00:02:36.239 --> 00:02:41.589
yes. Um that's correct. So, uh, actually


00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.190
there's a nice thread about this on


00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:46.630
Reddit if anybody looks at that website.


00:02:46.640 --> 00:02:49.750
>> I do. And, uh, well, I love Reddit.


00:02:49.760 --> 00:02:52.150
>> Yeah.


00:02:52.160 --> 00:02:54.470
I'm really, well, I do remember my, uh,


00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:56.390
one of my sons was an absolute Reddit


00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.390
fiend at one time. He was very much um,


00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.070
a Reddit fan. Uh, now, so that's how I


00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:05.990
was aware of it. But um, but I haven't


00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.309
been a great user of Reddit. But the


00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:11.670
bottom line, excuse me, is


00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.350
um and and this is the way is phrased in


00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.470
this particular conversation. If you


00:03:18.480 --> 00:03:20.869
increase the temperature


00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.309
of an object and they take a planet in


00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:27.350
this case uh and in fact I might just


00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.630
read it uh because this kind of is quite


00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:32.149
interesting.


00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:34.149
and


00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.229
take your Neptune you take your


00:03:36.239 --> 00:03:38.070
Neptunian planet something the size of


00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.869
Neptune raise the temperature by 300°


00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.990
Kelvin instantly now the mass of Neptune


00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.030
is about 10 26 kg and if we roughly


00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:49.910
assume all its hydrogen uh uh


00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:53.190
corresponds to about 6 * 10 52 particles


00:03:53.200 --> 00:03:56.149
of hydrogen uh it's the thermal energy


00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.670
is roughly given by an equation there E=


00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.429
NT


00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:03.910
uh uh which leads to an increase in


00:04:03.920 --> 00:04:06.149
thermal energy


00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:10.309
uh of da d and it's a large number of


00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.110
jewels um actually it's a small number


00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:18.789
of jewels it's k * 6 * 10 - 52 * 300


00:04:18.799 --> 00:04:20.390
jewels


00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:24.629
uh which um if you then convert that so


00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:26.310
so what what this is saying is you you


00:04:26.320 --> 00:04:29.830
you warm up a planet you get an increase


00:04:29.840 --> 00:04:32.390
uh in the thermal energy of that planet.


00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:35.670
You can then use E= MC² to convert that


00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.150
thermal energy into mass and in this


00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.870
case it comes out to be something like 3


00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:47.110
* 10 15 kg which is a lot but uh is not


00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.830
very much in comparison with a planet.


00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:53.189
Uh but that does mean that adding energy


00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.189
to something will increase its


00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:00.310
gravitational mass. Now um the Steve's


00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:04.390
sort of uh you know um next step in the


00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:06.390
argument from that is whether that could


00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:08.790
be misleading us in the idea of dark


00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:13.029
matter and things of that sort. Um and


00:05:13.039 --> 00:05:15.749
uh I I can't really get my head around


00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.950
how that would work. Um he mentioned M


00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:21.749
as well the modified Newtonian dynamics.


00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.110
Uh because my understanding is that


00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.390
everybody who looks at these


00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:30.390
particular problems what is dark matter?


00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:32.629
What is dark energy? They take into


00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:35.830
account everything. Uh I've read some of


00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:39.510
the papers on this. And so things like


00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:41.830
um you know gravitational


00:05:41.840 --> 00:05:45.510
uh gravitational influence of of pure


00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:47.670
energy and in this case we're talking


00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:52.070
about heat energy. Uh that uh is likely


00:05:52.080 --> 00:05:54.070
to be something that would be already in


00:05:54.080 --> 00:05:56.230
the equations. Um so I don't think it's


00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.469
the answer but it's a really interesting


00:05:58.479 --> 00:06:00.629
suggestion and an interesting thing to


00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.510
think about. Uh so thank you very much


00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:04.629
Steve.


00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.510
>> Yeah indeed. um just made me wonder, are


00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:09.430
we increasing Earth's gravity because


00:06:09.440 --> 00:06:11.270
we're heating the planet up?


00:06:11.280 --> 00:06:15.029
>> Yep, that's probably right. Um that I


00:06:15.039 --> 00:06:17.350
mean the the example that uh I just read


00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.469
out was about three t 300


00:06:20.479 --> 00:06:23.990
300° Kelvin, an instant uh increase in


00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.309
that. We're talking about one or two


00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.830
degrees Kelvin. uh but uh which makes a


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big difference to the earth's atmosphere


00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:32.710
but probably not that much difference to


00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:36.230
its uh you know gravitational potential.


00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.710
M okay. So the answer is yes. Gravity


00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.629
can exist without mass but it's probably


00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.230
not a major factor. Is that fair enough?


00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:50.710
>> Uh yes that is right. Um I just been


00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.629
dragging through my memory Andrew


00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.189
something else that's sort of vaguely


00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:59.189
related to this. Um which is the and we


00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.029
haven't used this name but we did talk


00:07:01.039 --> 00:07:04.550
about it a while ago the cougal blitz.


00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.950
And do you know what a cougall blitz is?


00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:10.790
>> Uh look, I've heard this before. Uh no,


00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:11.670
remind me.


00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.589
>> Yeah. So it's it basically is uh a black


00:07:15.599 --> 00:07:18.629
hole made of light. Uh it's and


00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:20.469
Wikipedia says it's a concentration of


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heat, light, or radiation so intense


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that its energy forms an event horizon


00:07:24.400 --> 00:07:26.710
and becomes selftrapped. In other words,


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if enough radiation is aimed into a


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region of space, the concentration of


00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.589
energy can walk spaceime so much that it


00:07:33.599 --> 00:07:36.790
creates a black hole. It's a black hole.


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It is a black hole whose original mass


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energy was in the form of radiant energy


00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.189
rather than matter.


00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.950
Uh now um there is a paper that was


00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:49.189
published in


00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:50.710
2024


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that concludes that a phenomenon like


00:07:53.280 --> 00:07:55.749
this cannot occur in any realistic


00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:58.790
scenario within our universe. So cougal


00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.830
blitzes are a theoretical entity that


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are not are thought not to occur in


00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.270
nature. Uh but it is a similar thing


00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:09.029
isn't it? It's a it basically it's a


00:08:09.039 --> 00:08:11.430
it's a black hole made of energy.


00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:14.150
>> Yeah. Wow, that's really interesting. I


00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.589
tell you something else that does exist


00:08:15.599 --> 00:08:19.589
is a Google Scriber. So, so


00:08:19.599 --> 00:08:22.390
I've got one of those. Have you?


00:08:22.400 --> 00:08:24.550
>> Yeah, there it is.


00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.550
>> It's a pen. It's German.


00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.629
>> Hold it up. Ah, okay.


00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:29.430
>> Cougle scriber.


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>> A cougriber.


00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:32.070
>> Yes.


00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:33.430
>> Do you know what German is? You know


00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:35.589
what the German is for pencil?


00:08:35.599 --> 00:08:37.269
>> Uh, I probably did once, but I don't


00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:38.870
now. That's


00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:41.430
>> bliff blift.


00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:42.709
>> All right.


00:08:42.719 --> 00:08:44.710
>> It's probably


00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:47.269
I only I did languages at high school


00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:48.870
and I was very good at them and I should


00:08:48.880 --> 00:08:50.310
have probably pursued that somewhere


00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.550
along the line, but German stuck with


00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:55.750
me. I some of the references I still


00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:57.269
remember today. Someone's going to


00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:58.630
correct me now because I'd probably


00:08:58.640 --> 00:09:01.190
bugger it up the pronunciation.


00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:02.630
>> Anyway,


00:09:02.640 --> 00:09:03.110
>> that's all right.


00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:04.870
>> I'm just showing off now. No, it's a


00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:07.269
it's a side of your character that I was


00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.190
unaware of. Um, Andrew, I um, curiously,


00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.710
I uh never joined never joined Lurman at


00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.509
school. I never learned German at


00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:22.790
school. Um, but, uh, uh, when I was 14,


00:09:22.800 --> 00:09:25.110
uh, I went on a school exchange to


00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:27.509
Germany, which was bar because I wasn't


00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:29.590
studying German, but that that was my


00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:31.670
first overseas visit, of course, from


00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:34.949
the United Kingdom. Um, and so I've


00:09:34.959 --> 00:09:38.949
spent the the however many years it is,


00:09:38.959 --> 00:09:41.350
60 odd years since then, trying to learn


00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:43.190
German.


00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.590
And um, yeah.


00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.710
>> Yeah. Look, I'm so jealous of students


00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.870
in countries like the United States and


00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:53.350
the UK and Europe because they get to do


00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.430
excursions to other countries. In


00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.829
Australia, we got to do excursions to


00:09:57.839 --> 00:10:02.150
Sydney and Canra. I mean, come on.


00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:03.829
That was it.


00:10:03.839 --> 00:10:04.150
>> Yeah,


00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:06.230
>> that was as good as it got for us.


00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:06.710
>> Yeah.


00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:08.550
>> I mean, these days they get to go to New


00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:11.590
Zealand once in a while. Um, but yeah,


00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.590
we we're so far from everywhere, it's


00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:15.269
just not easy. Although, my son did go


00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:17.509
to go get to do a couple of weeks in


00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.269
Japan through high school. So,


00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:19.829
>> there you go.


00:10:19.839 --> 00:10:21.990
>> There are a few options these days.


00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:23.910
>> This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley here


00:10:23.920 --> 00:10:28.790
with Professor Fred Watson.


00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:31.670
>> Three, two, one.


00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:33.110
Space nuts.


00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.630
>> Uh, we better keep moving. Uh, thank


00:10:34.640 --> 00:10:37.269
you, Steve. Let's get a question from


00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:38.470
Gus.


00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.150
>> Hello, Professor Fred and, uh, Andrew.


00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:44.389
This is Gus Iverson from Isiqua,


00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:46.550
Washington. I sent in a question for you


00:10:46.560 --> 00:10:47.910
guys previously, and you thought I was


00:10:47.920 --> 00:10:50.310
in Western Western Australia.


00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.910
>> Yes. I I've been thinking about uh uh


00:10:53.920 --> 00:10:57.269
gravity uh today and it it came to my


00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.350
mind that if uh energy and mass are


00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:05.350
equivalent then essentially uh shouldn't


00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:09.829
energy also create gravity at some


00:11:09.839 --> 00:11:11.430
level.


00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.069
Um I'm not sure if this is a related


00:11:14.079 --> 00:11:17.110
question or or an extension or or a


00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.829
separate question though. Um uh


00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:21.590
additionally


00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.430
um if a body of of any size is


00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.509
generating uh or has mass and it is


00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:33.590
generating a gravitational field,


00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:37.430
does not that field itself


00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.350
have energy and mass? And would that


00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.470
field not create additional gravity by


00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.710
its simple existence?


00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:53.269
So, if that's the case, or even kind of


00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.829
the case, my question is where does the


00:11:55.839 --> 00:12:00.870
energy and mass go if if um or


00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:03.990
uh I I I have no idea where to go with


00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.790
this. Thank you. Uh I love love the show


00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:08.550
and appreciate being able to ask


00:12:08.560 --> 00:12:09.590
questions.


00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.350
>> Thank you, Gus. Uh that sounded very


00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.230
much like something from Catch 22. Yeah.


00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:16.470
Was it was it apples or tomatoes? They


00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.310
were trying to I don't know. Um but uh


00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.150
yeah, it sounded a bit like that. Um


00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:25.590
gravity plus energy. Body plus mass plus


00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.629
gravity equals energy. But then does


00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.670
that add mass which adds to gravity? I


00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:32.949
think that's what he was trying to


00:12:32.959 --> 00:12:35.110
>> Yeah, that's right. So So you've got to


00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.509
you know the whole thing gets completely


00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.829
out of hand cuz everything's got


00:12:39.839 --> 00:12:42.710
gravity. Um I think uh so the first part


00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.550
of what Gus was saying is what we've


00:12:44.560 --> 00:12:46.310
just been talking about. You know if you


00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.269
put it into energy and mass


00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.870
>> um and


00:12:52.880 --> 00:12:55.509
gravitation you got be I probably have


00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.030
to be careful with the words


00:12:57.040 --> 00:13:01.590
gravitational gravitation is a potential


00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:03.910
uh an object in a gravitational field


00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:05.829
has potential energy. So, it does have


00:13:05.839 --> 00:13:10.870
energy. Uh, but it I I kind of need to


00:13:10.880 --> 00:13:12.790
take this one and notice. Actually, you


00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:14.389
did give me notice, Andrew, but I didn't


00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.389
have time to really look further into


00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.990
it. But I think um I think there's a I


00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.190
think there's a stumbling block


00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.590
somewhere in that argument. Uh, which is


00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.829
probably that gravitational energy isn't


00:13:25.839 --> 00:13:29.269
energy that's convertible to mass. Um,


00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.069
but I need to get my thoughts clearer on


00:13:32.079 --> 00:13:34.150
that, which they aren't at the moment.


00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:37.509
So Gus, thank you for a very uh tricky


00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.389
question uh which um I might think a


00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:43.750
little bit more about uh and


00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:46.230
>> uh perhaps we will revisit it in a


00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.829
future episode of Space Notes Q&A.


00:13:49.839 --> 00:13:52.870
>> I put a um I put a homework marker next


00:13:52.880 --> 00:13:53.829
to it.


00:13:53.839 --> 00:13:55.829
>> That's what I'm I'm just doing that. I'm


00:13:55.839 --> 00:13:57.910
doing it. You're doing it in your


00:13:57.920 --> 00:13:59.750
cougal.


00:13:59.760 --> 00:14:02.230
I'm using a red a red cougal scriber.


00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.910
Okay.


00:14:03.920 --> 00:14:05.269
I don't know what the German word for


00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:06.550
red is though.


00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:10.310
>> Oh, probably do it on translator.


00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:11.110
>> There you are.


00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.269
>> Yeah, there you are. I don't have to


00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:13.829
look it up.


00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:14.710
>> You don't.


00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:15.509
>> Um,


00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:19.430
>> so Gus, um, don't know. We don't know.


00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.230
Maybe, possibly. Could be. Don't know.


00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:23.030
>> There's the answer.


00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:23.910
>> Don't yet.


00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:24.949
>> How's that?


00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:28.710
>> Don't don't yet know.


00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:29.670
>> I like that.


00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:29.990
>> Yeah.


00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.710
>> Uh, let's um get to the final question.


00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.189
We'll get back to you Gus at some stage


00:14:35.199 --> 00:14:37.030
in Western Australia or it could be the


00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:39.189
United States. Uh now we've got a


00:14:39.199 --> 00:14:42.710
question from oh um just by coincidence


00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.150
from New Zealand again. Um hi team


00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:47.750
amazing podcast. Which one are you


00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.069
talking about now? Uh I have been


00:14:50.079 --> 00:14:51.990
listening since your early days and I've


00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.150
always uh looked forward to new uh


00:14:54.160 --> 00:14:56.069
uploads. My question is around the


00:14:56.079 --> 00:14:57.829
discovery of early galaxies from the


00:14:57.839 --> 00:14:59.910
James Webb Space Telescope. Is it


00:14:59.920 --> 00:15:02.550
possible for earlier galaxies to be


00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:04.550
traveling towards us that are currently


00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:07.750
out of reach? Uh filling with uh


00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:11.590
potentially nothing uh uh filling where


00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.910
potentially nothing was in view before.


00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:15.990
Uh if possible, would the light be


00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.910
compressed? How would the instruments


00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:20.230
deal with that? Hope that makes sense.


00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:25.269
Cheers, Nick from Oakland, New Zealand.


00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.030
Now, my brain just went, well, I suppose


00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:29.030
it's possible, but how do we prove it?


00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:30.389
until it happens.


00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.870
>> Yes. So, uh, couple of things in here.


00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:35.829
Um, thanks Nick. Great question. The


00:15:35.839 --> 00:15:38.150
last bit about light being compressed.


00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.269
So, um, and in a way that's, you know,


00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.189
that's, um, quite a nice way of putting


00:15:43.199 --> 00:15:45.189
it. So, anything that comes toward you


00:15:45.199 --> 00:15:47.509
that's emitting light, it's light will


00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.590
be blue shifted. In other words,


00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.389
>> it's wavelength will get shorter. And,


00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.189
and that's saying it's compressed is


00:15:55.199 --> 00:15:56.790
pretty well, you know, that's pretty


00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:59.590
well what happens. It's like uh um you


00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.389
know the the the good old uh ambulance


00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.310
siren or fire engine siren or whatever


00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.790
it is coming towards you uh which


00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:09.110
compresses the uh the sound waves and


00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.189
the result is an increase in pitch which


00:16:11.199 --> 00:16:12.550
corresponds to a shortening of


00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:15.509
wavelength. So that's standard physics


00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.629
we we can detect uh by the Doppler shift


00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.110
anything coming towards us uh by the


00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.629
fact that it light is shifted towards


00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:27.350
the blue end of the spectrum. Um but um


00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.550
the the first bit of the question about


00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:32.230
galaxies


00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:36.230
earlier galaxies traveling towards us um


00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.069
we


00:16:38.079 --> 00:16:41.509
we when we think about galaxies we have


00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.030
two


00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:45.749
two different velocities involved. One


00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.710
is the velocity of a galaxy as it's


00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.470
carried along by the expansion of the


00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:54.150
universe. uh and that is what we measure


00:16:54.160 --> 00:16:57.189
as a red shift. Uh the expansion of the


00:16:57.199 --> 00:16:59.430
universe is carrying galaxies away from


00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.269
us and so their light is being


00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.470
redshifted. Uh and by the time you get


00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.390
to these really early galaxies where


00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.189
you're looking back uh almost the whole


00:17:09.199 --> 00:17:11.350
edge of the universe, the red shift is


00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:13.750
very considerable. It's a factor of 13


00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:15.429
or 14 something like that. We're given


00:17:15.439 --> 00:17:18.390
the name zed. Uh the red shift is about


00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.189
14. So, um, a big part, no, that's not


00:17:21.199 --> 00:17:23.990
true. Uh, that's that's me confusing the


00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.189
age with the red shift. Forget that bit.


00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:29.190
But the the numbers quite high. The red


00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.630
shifts are probably five or six or


00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:32.630
something like that. Uh, but it's still


00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.029
it's still a a high level of the, you


00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:36.870
know, the light being stretched out by


00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:38.549
the expansion of the universe. So,


00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.590
that's one velocity, but galaxies can


00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:44.710
have a superimposed on that a velocity


00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.029
which we call a peculiar motion, its own


00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.630
velocity. uh caused by local, you know,


00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.750
local edies in space or whatever uh that


00:17:53.760 --> 00:17:56.150
that might um move a galaxy towards us.


00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.789
It's the gravitational field that it's


00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.310
exposed to. Very much like um the the


00:18:02.320 --> 00:18:04.150
analog is always a river carrying you


00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.470
along. Uh and if you're in a rowbo, you


00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.310
can move relative to the river, but the


00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:09.750
river is always carrying you along.


00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:11.110
That's exactly what's happening with the


00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.350
Hubble flow, the the expansion of the


00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:15.590
universe. And these peculiar motions are


00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:17.110
superimposed on that, but they're much


00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:18.390
much less


00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.710
>> than the motion uh at those distances or


00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.789
look back times. It's much much less


00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.990
than the expansion flow of the universe.


00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.990
So no, there won't be anything hidden


00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.750
from us that's coming towards us. I


00:18:31.760 --> 00:18:33.190
don't think it's a interesting


00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.750
suggestion, but uh everything's moving


00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:37.510
away from us at this very high velocity


00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:39.830
at those distances.


00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:41.669
>> Of course. Um, Nick, if you want to


00:18:41.679 --> 00:18:43.750
check with us in a million years or so,


00:18:43.760 --> 00:18:45.669
we might have an alternative answer.


00:18:45.679 --> 00:18:47.750
>> Well, that's true. Uh, put that in your


00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:49.830
diary and we'll we'll uh I'll I'll mark


00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:51.669
it with an asterisk knowing that it's


00:18:51.679 --> 00:18:54.310
homework for a million years time.


00:18:54.320 --> 00:18:58.230
>> Yes, it's good. Um, and I'm really


00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.750
disappointed that the people who make


00:18:59.760 --> 00:19:06.150
diaries haven't gone ahead that far yet.


00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.470
>> Thanks, Nick. Um, probably not, I think,


00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.590
is the the answer. Um, but thanks for


00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:13.029
the question. Thanks to everyone who


00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.630
sent in questions. Keep them coming. You


00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:15.830
can do that via our website,


00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:18.789
spacenutspodcast.com, spacenuts.io,


00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.470
which has two options. The AMA tab at


00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:23.909
the top where you can send us text and


00:19:23.919 --> 00:19:27.350
audio or the send us your questions uh


00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:28.870
button on the right hand side of our


00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:30.950
home screens. Don't forget to tell us


00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.870
who you are and where you're from. And


00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:34.710
you can probably upload your audio


00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:36.230
questions on any device as long as


00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.549
you've got a microphone and mobile


00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.710
phones are perfect for this. Uh but a


00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.870
lot of people have home computers with


00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.830
mics built in, etc., etc., etc. Always


00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:48.470
happy to hear from you. Uh Fred, thanks


00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.070
so much. We're done with another


00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:52.070
episode. Jeez, we're them up.


00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:53.669
>> We are wrapping them up. Good to talk to


00:19:53.679 --> 00:19:56.950
you, Andrew. And we'll speak again soon.


00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.710
>> Indeed, we will. Professor Fred Watson,


00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:00.630
astronomer at large. And thanks to Hugh


00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.150
in the studio for collecting


00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.990
not much, but uh we thank him anyway.


00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.750
And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for


00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:09.510
your company. See you on the very next


00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:11.990
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.029
>> Space Nuts.


00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.110
>> You've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:20:15.120 --> 00:20:17.350
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00:20:17.360 --> 00:20:20.310
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