Galactic Revelations, Cometary Wonders & Moon Mysteries: #487 - First Edition of 2025 | Space Nuts

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Language: en

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hello again thanks for joining us this


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is Space Nuts my name is Andrew Dunley


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Welcome to our first edition of


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20205 coming up oh boy it is jam-packed


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we' got a lot of catching up to do some


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really interesting things one of the


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biggest this might be one of the biggest


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stories of the Year already a new paper


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suggesting the universe has no dark


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matter and isn't expanding like we think


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so that'll tip the whole thing upside


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down we're also going to look at a comet


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uh that is in our skies at the moment


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Comet C 2024 G3 Atlas uh so we'll talk


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about that and don't be a Caren kiss and


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tell what's that mean we'll tell you


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shortly on this edition of Space Nuts 15


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seconds guidance is internal 10 9


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ignition sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3


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2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts asut


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reported feels good and it feels real


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good to be back in the chair with


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Professor Fred Watson astronomer at


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large hello Fred hello Andrew how are


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you doing I'm doing well uh it's good to


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be back um we had a nice break uh just


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very quickly Judy and I went to India


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Sri Lanka Thailand Malaysia Singapore


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and then back home and then we had to go


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to a wedding on New Year's Day believe


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it or not down in the snowy mountains so


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we've had a very eventful break what


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about you uh oh well yes I had an


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eventful break as well because seven


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members of my UK family descended on us


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uh not all of them stayed with us but


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most of them did because I had a


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significant birthday in December and so


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they all came to help me celebrate yeah


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800's a real Milestone absolutely uh it


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does begin with an e but it's not 800


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and it's not eight either 18 that's it


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it's nearer to that yeah uh just can't


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imagine being stuck in a room with that


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many Pals all at once but anyway um


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you you know they started fighting among


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themselves as usual uh but actually uh


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compared with the way the Aussies fought


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among themselves they were pretty tame I


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have to say yeah well that happens a lot


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Christmas brings that out inness do does


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yeah does absolutely now I uh have a


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little bit of a surprise for our


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audience uh moving forward uh we have


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another guest with us at the moment he


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is Professor jonty Horner he's the


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profess professor of astrophysics at the


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University of Southern Queensland jonty


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welcome thank you for having me it's


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good to be here uh it's good that you


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decided to join us because we thought


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you'd say no but anyway uh the reason


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you're on board is because um Fred and I


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have basically run out of time to do


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catch-up episodes for when both of us


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are going to be away over the coming


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months and so this is technically Fred's


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only episode


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for the next month or so and you're


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going to fill in for him over that time


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frame so we're really pleased about that


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uh can you tell us a little bit about


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yourself um you know professor of


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astrophysics very exciting happy to do


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so I mean you probably pick up from the


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accent that I've got a bit of a shared


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Heritage with Fred which I'm sure is the


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only reason you invited me on it's to


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maintain the arkshire connection um I I


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grew up in the north of England um back


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in the 80s really and got hooked by


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astronomy very young thanks to Patrick


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Moore um and I seem to be expanding in a


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similar way to him as well so I'm


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clearly mimicking his share and joined


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my local astronomy society which is a


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WRA astronomy society when I was about


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eight years old and I now get to be


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their president actually even though I'm


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in absente which is really kind of a


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lovely touching thing you know I'm a


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young kid that came through the society


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went to talks from professional


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astronomers all the time and basically


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that let me stay hooked through being a


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teenager and meant that I had the


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ammunition of the wellwith all I guess


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coming from a low socioeconomic area and


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you know not the best part of the world


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to grow up in at that time thanks to


00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.949
magua milk snater I I still have the


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opportunity to head off to unig get to


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study what I want to do and that's


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allowed me to have a reasonably


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entertaining and challenging at times


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career and move around the world rugged


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up in Australia in about 2010 and I've


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been here ever since so despite the


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accent I am officially Australian I just


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don't quite found at so well that's kind


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of the Potted history we're so thrilled


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to have you and people will get to know


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you over the coming weeks so welcome


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aboard and uh we're going to have a


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we're going to have a lot of fun today


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uh talking about these uh these topics


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and we're going to start with probably


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the big one in regard to this this new


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paper uh suggesting the universe has no


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dark energy and isn't expanding like we


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think um your thoughts on this Fred


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uh yeah it's entertaining um it's uh


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something that I think is going to


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cause uh not constellation by any means


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but certainly uh give cosmologists the


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people who look at the uh history and


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evolution of the universe as a whole uh


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perhaps reason to pause and say okay


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maybe this is a time to have a look at


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the Paradigm on which under which we're


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working and in fact the um the search


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that we're talking about which has been


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done by a group uh actually all of them


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are at the University of can Canterbury


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in New Zealand so it's a gwis who stolen


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a march on us with this uh their paper


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in monthly notices of the Royal


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Astronomical Society is entitled


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Supernova evidence for foundational


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change to cosmological models and what


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they're basically saying is that we now


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have such a big uh collection of of


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supernova data and these are stars as


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you know that explode at the ends of


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their lives they explode with a specific


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brightness this is the the trick to it


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they become standard candles because


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they all reach the same Peak brightness


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and that allows them to give us a direct


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measurement of the geometry of the


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universe basically their distance uh and


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when you do that with the latest data uh


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it turns out that the dark energy model


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which is kind of getting a bit creaky


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because we've always thought Dark Energy


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a springiness of space might be constant


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but there's new evidence that suggests


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that it's not but that model might


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really need to be taken apart uh for a


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rethink and the rethink that they're


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proposing uh uh is a model that um is


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being called I've got the word time


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share in my mind but it's actually time


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scape uh which suggests that the reason


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why we think we see dark energy and


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remember that was discovered back in


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1998 uh the reason why we think we see


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dark energy is that the universe is far


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from homogeneous it's not the same in


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all directions it's got thick bits and


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thin bits in terms of the amount of


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matter that it Con contains and the


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problem with all our cosmological


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modeling is the first premise that we


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start from the first foundational fact


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oid that we take is that the universe is


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the same in all directions it's


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isentropic uh and uniform and that is


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not the case we know that because we


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look out there and we see galaxies in


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some places and not in others so we know


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that the universe is highly


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inhomogeneous and what these people are


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saying is perhaps that is the bigger


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effect that is manifesting itself in


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what we think we're seeing as a an


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accelerated expansion of the universe uh


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caused by dark energy whereas in reality


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uh that's not the case the universe


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perhaps is not accelerating in its


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expansion but what we can see makes us


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think it is so the more measurements


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that we can make the more likely we are


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to be able to pick between one model and


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another uh so are they suggesting this


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is some kind of optical illusion in a


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sense yes that's right well the whole


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universe is an optical illusion in that


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you know we we see these things dotted


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around and we've got to be be very


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careful as to how we interpret that as a


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threedimensional


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entity and that's always the problem um


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my take on it if if you'll forgive me


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and I'd love to hear what jonty thinks


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about this work as well my take on it is


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that there is a lot of evidence not just


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from the Supernova observations but from


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the geometry of the universe as a whole


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when we look at this The Way galaxies


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form this kind of honeycomb of material


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almost like a foam of galaxies uh when


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you Analyze That and look at the


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characteristic distances between


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galaxies and things of that sort you can


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um really work out what the geometry of


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the universe is like in some detail and


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that allows you to tease out the


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constituent components including the


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contribution of normal matter which is


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only about 5% constitution of dark


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matter which is something like 25% and


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this mysterious thing called dark energy


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which is 70% there's there's there's


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Jordy agreeing with everything I'm


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saying he yeah he couldn't wait he


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couldn't wait to come back couldn't wait


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no he's yeah sorry about that all right


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Jordy it's


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okay so yeah not confusing Jordy with


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jonty which on an email and I apolog


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Jordy nearly got called jonty I have to


00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.870
say and would have been after you


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jonty um jonty what's your take on this


00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.470
and I I I do remember reading in one of


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our emails when we discussed this topic


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that it gave you a headache well I think


00:09:58.040 --> 00:09:59.550
most of these things do because we're


00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:01.790
trying to visualize things that are at


00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:03.509
the very limits of our understanding and


00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.389
I always find it amazing that we we're


00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:07.350
having this podcast here in all this


00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:08.630
technology we've developed with this


00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:10.069
incredible wealth of understanding we


00:10:10.079 --> 00:10:11.949
have the universe that has all been


00:10:11.959 --> 00:10:13.590
developed by about two kilograms of


00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.509
squishy stuff in people's heads and it's


00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:18.630
amazing that two kilos of squishy carbon


00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:21.190
can work out what the universe is like


00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:23.069
but what I love about this is it's a


00:10:23.079 --> 00:10:24.870
really nice reminder of how science


00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:27.110
actually works so you kind of get the


00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:28.430
impression at school that science was


00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.509
just done and dusted and here's a theory


00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:31.790
and that's it but what we're actually


00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:34.110
doing is this kind of iterative process


00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:36.269
where in astronomy we're not on


00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:37.470
experimental science we're an


00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:38.990
observational science which is a bit of


00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.069
a subtlety but what it means is we're


00:10:41.079 --> 00:10:42.350
looking out at the universe like


00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.870
detectives we're Gathering all these


00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:46.030
Clues and then we try and piece them


00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:47.870
together into a narrative of how things


00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:50.750
work and what makes that narrative a


00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:52.389
theory is that you can use it to make


00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:54.710
predictions if this is correct then you


00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:56.710
will see this then you'll see the other


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and sometimes people make explicit


00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:00.150
predictions like the next generation of


00:11:00.160 --> 00:11:01.990
telescopes you need to look for this and


00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.190
this is a really good test other times


00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:05.590
it's a bit more implicit because it's


00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.150
just saying this is how things behave


00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:10.710
and typically those series those


00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:12.829
explanations do an exceptionally good


00:11:12.839 --> 00:11:15.269
job of explaining everything we already


00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.269
see and going a little bit beyond it but


00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.030
there's this really long history of US


00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:22.590
hitting a wall where suddenly we've


00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.190
reached beyond the point where the


00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.670
theory works because we just didn't have


00:11:26.680 --> 00:11:28.269
enough data so the theory was a good


00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:29.949
explanation but it's not the final


00:11:29.959 --> 00:11:31.750
answer and then you get the


00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:34.150
observational that show the theory isn't


00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:36.230
quite right and you go back and new


00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:37.750
batches of theories come and sometimes


00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:38.910
they're just refinement or an


00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:40.550
improvement which is what this is doing


00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:42.790
essentially it's saying we can no longer


00:11:42.800 --> 00:11:44.430
assume the universe is homogeneous


00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.870
you've got to take account of the pess


00:11:46.880 --> 00:11:48.910
there's a few different models that try


00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:51.269
and do that in different ways they'll


00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.629
predict different things we can look at


00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:53.670
that in the


00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:55.910
future sometimes it knocks a theory over


00:11:55.920 --> 00:11:58.310
and you start again from scratch and


00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.590
this is what we're seeing with seeing


00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:01.190
science happening before our very eyes


00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.470
here and it's because what we're looking


00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:06.269
at is the hardest ever things to measure


00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:08.190
the most challenging observations really


00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:10.310
pushing the boundaries of what we know


00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.790
and so as we get more detailed answers


00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:14.590
you are going to hit a point where the


00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:16.189
simpler Theory doesn't work and I mean


00:12:16.199 --> 00:12:18.470
it makes my head hurt to call the


00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.990
current cosmology the simple version


00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.629
because it really really isn't but it's


00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:24.949
a steady Improvement and we've seen it


00:12:24.959 --> 00:12:27.189
in the past I use Newton's gravitation


00:12:27.199 --> 00:12:29.990
in all the research work I do all the


00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.750
simulations even though it's wrong it's


00:12:32.760 --> 00:12:35.110
wrong because you need to do general


00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.990
relativity to improve on it that's you


00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:39.910
know if we were doing the podcast 120


00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:41.310
years ago that would have been the great


00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.189
Revelation Newton was wrong here's


00:12:43.199 --> 00:12:45.710
Einstein but Newton's model was good


00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.430
enough that it's easier for my


00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.110
simulations to use it and the


00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:51.790
differences are so small we can ignore


00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:54.670
them that was 120 years ago this is the


00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:56.110
equivalent kind of thing going on now


00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.470
this is right at the Forefront and it's


00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.189
brilliant to see how these new surveys


00:13:01.199 --> 00:13:03.189
that were put together B off the stuff


00:13:03.199 --> 00:13:05.590
20 years ago and now pushing the limits


00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.189
of where that may or may not work allow


00:13:07.199 --> 00:13:09.750
needs to take that next step yeah would


00:13:09.760 --> 00:13:12.790
it be fair to say that uh challenging


00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:15.030
what we perceive to be the current


00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:18.590
reality is the way we can


00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.269
improve the the potential outcomes or


00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.110
the potential changes in the way we look


00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.870
at cosmology or or the universe as a


00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:29.269
whole um if if we didn't challenge these


00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.550
things there'd be no progress would that


00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:35.829
be a fair point yeah yeah absolutely so


00:13:35.839 --> 00:13:39.310
uh it it's you know essentially what we


00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:41.990
try to do here or the authors of this


00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.189
paper is lift the lid on not not the


00:13:45.199 --> 00:13:46.870
elephant in the room in the sense that


00:13:46.880 --> 00:13:48.910
you know we think there's something


00:13:48.920 --> 00:13:50.949
definitely drastically wrong with dark


00:13:50.959 --> 00:13:52.749
energy because it's still very much the


00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:55.389
paradig by which astronomers work but


00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.230
lifting the lid on maybe complacency so


00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.150
it is challenging our ideas and it will


00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:04.910
it will produce new results it may even


00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:07.189
produce a paper that says no way the


00:14:07.199 --> 00:14:09.749
dark energy model fits the uh the data


00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.230
better uh than the the the time scape


00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.829
model um especially when there is new


00:14:15.839 --> 00:14:17.670
data and actually those data already


00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:18.870
exist it's just that they haven't been


00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:21.670
fed into the into the mix yet so there


00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:24.749
might be challenges to the new model uh


00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.189
not very far down the track uh I kind of


00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:29.990
hope though that uh this this sort of


00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.269
thing actually starts to gain a little


00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.030
bit of traction and that we might see


00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:37.629
some glimmer of hope in understanding


00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:39.069
what we have hither to thought of as


00:14:39.079 --> 00:14:40.949
dark energy because it's been one of the


00:14:40.959 --> 00:14:44.389
biggest puzzles faced by astrophysicists


00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.629
yes that's kind of what this whole paper


00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.910
is doing actually so the the idea behind


00:14:48.920 --> 00:14:50.389
this is two or three different models


00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.990
were proposed in the last 10 or 15 years


00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.509
and what this paper is doing is saying


00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.069
now we have all this observational data


00:14:57.079 --> 00:14:59.030
we've got enough data to compare them


00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:01.670
models and run a statistical test to see


00:15:01.680 --> 00:15:04.470
which fits better essentially and they


00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.670
find that the time scape one fits a


00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:08.550
little bit better for this sample than


00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:10.910
dark energy but not enough to be


00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:13.110
definitive yet and what's interesting is


00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.470
there's this fantastic thing called The


00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.150
Dark Energy survey which I think Tamara


00:15:17.160 --> 00:15:19.350
deris down at ukq has led but it's this


00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.710
incredible Global project that I know


00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:23.389
about because of the spin-offs in solar


00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.389
system astronomy that I've heard about


00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:27.389
which is an even bigger data set and I


00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:29.470
suspect the next set with this is to say


00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.389
look the test with the data set we use


00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.550
here show that this is a worthwhile test


00:15:33.560 --> 00:15:35.749
to do now let's use an even bigger data


00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:37.629
set so I could easily see you talking


00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:39.189
about this again in 12 GS time say


00:15:39.199 --> 00:15:40.790
remember that team that said time skate


00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:42.509
was interesting they've got a new one


00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:44.670
out it's a sequel and it's


00:15:44.680 --> 00:15:47.870
really yeah yeah yeah it could be really


00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:50.309
exciting down the track and we we


00:15:50.319 --> 00:15:51.269
obviously there's going to be a lot of


00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.110
peer review a lot of discussion a lot of


00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.470
debate some will debunk it some will say


00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:56.749
well actually you know they're on to


00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:58.470
something we might yeah who knows where


00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.949
this will that we'll watch with great


00:16:00.959 --> 00:16:04.069
interest this is Space Nuts you can um


00:16:04.079 --> 00:16:05.470
follow up that story on the


00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.710
conversation.com this is Space Nuts


00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.350
Andrew Dunley with Fred and jonty Horner


00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.350
and glad to have your


00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.069
company okay we checked all four systems


00:16:17.079 --> 00:16:20.990
and It Go space Nets right jotty uh to


00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.790
you uh and and uh just before we started


00:16:23.800 --> 00:16:25.829
you showed us some fabulous images of


00:16:25.839 --> 00:16:30.189
this uh Comet C 2024 G3 Atlas is that


00:16:30.199 --> 00:16:33.030
the right title for like if I get that


00:16:33.040 --> 00:16:35.069
right it is yeah and ning conventions


00:16:35.079 --> 00:16:37.069
for comets are a little bit like bar


00:16:37.079 --> 00:16:39.749
codes so you've got two parts the atlas


00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.550
part is who discovered it and that's the


00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:44.150
atlas survey the rest of it is a unique


00:16:44.160 --> 00:16:45.629
identifier that tells you when it was


00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.150
found so the C tells you that this is a


00:16:48.160 --> 00:16:50.030
comet that is not a periodic Comet it's


00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:51.990
the first time we've seen it if it was a


00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.590
periodic Comet like comic hot and be a p


00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:56.110
and it might even have a number before


00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.389
it and then the 2024 G3 tells you when


00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.470
it was found so it was discovered in


00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.990
2024 the the letter tells you which


00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.150
fortnite of the year it was found in so


00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.390
a would be the first fortnite in January


00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.549
B the second and so on and then three


00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.150
tells you was the third object in that


00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.270
fortnite so nice and straightforward and


00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:18.429
it rolls off the tongue I mean it's


00:17:18.439 --> 00:17:20.189
easier than choing Shan Atlas which was


00:17:20.199 --> 00:17:24.029
last year now this comic was found and


00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.390
people got moderately excited got


00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.070
moderately excited because it was very


00:17:29.080 --> 00:17:31.310
fair when it was found which suggests


00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:33.110
that it might be intrinsically


00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:36.630
relatively small as IC object does but


00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:38.190
when they worked out its orbit they


00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:40.590
found that it was going to get within a


00:17:40.600 --> 00:17:42.470
tenth of the distance between the Earth


00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.870
and the Sun of the Sun so it's going to


00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.190
get really close to the Sun and all


00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:47.750
other the things being equal the closer


00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:49.990
cometer nucleus gets to the Sun the more


00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:51.430
active it gets and therefore the more


00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.350
spectacular the comet gets so that's an


00:17:54.360 --> 00:17:56.070
indication that this comic could get


00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:57.710
very very bright around perhelion


00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.270
closest to the which is literally while


00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:02.149
we're recording this podcast it's around


00:18:02.159 --> 00:18:04.350
now the reason everybody's being


00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:06.190
tentative about it is that being quite a


00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:07.990
small object small things that get close


00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.750
to the Sun tend not to survive they tend


00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:12.470
to fall apart disintegrate and so with


00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.149
this thing people have been far more


00:18:15.159 --> 00:18:16.750
cautious than I'm used to with comments


00:18:16.760 --> 00:18:18.270
actually I'm used to people hyping them


00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:19.549
and me having to play the voice of


00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:20.950
reason with this one people have been


00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.310
really cautious because it might not


00:18:23.320 --> 00:18:25.669
survive but now that it's at its closest


00:18:25.679 --> 00:18:28.190
to the Sun it's going really well and it


00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.950
is surviving I mean that doesn't mean


00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:31.149
that in two days time it won't


00:18:31.159 --> 00:18:33.909
disintegrate so caution there comets are


00:18:33.919 --> 00:18:35.669
like cats they have tails to do whatever


00:18:35.679 --> 00:18:38.830
they want but it's looking promising at


00:18:38.840 --> 00:18:40.909
the minute it's nearly as bright as the


00:18:40.919 --> 00:18:43.070
planet Venus but you can't see it


00:18:43.080 --> 00:18:44.430
because it's within five degrees of the


00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.830
sun that's as we record this but in the


00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:49.190
next few days it's going to start to


00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.110
move away from the Sun in the sky very


00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:53.710
low on the western Horizon apologies to


00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.070
people in the northern hemisphere but


00:18:55.080 --> 00:18:56.430
this is going to be one which we're


00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:57.830
going to have a much better view down


00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:00.230
south just because of the orientation of


00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:02.510
the comics Orit it's diving very steeply


00:19:02.520 --> 00:19:04.310
south below the plane of the solar


00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:05.830
system so as it moves away from the sun


00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:08.549
it's moving in a sutherly direction what


00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.190
all that means is that Thursday Friday


00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.350
Saturday Sunday so that's Thursday the


00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:15.350
16th of January through the weekend


00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:17.950
maybe into next week there is a chance


00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.390
we could have a reasonably bright Comet


00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.270
very low on the western Horizon after


00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:25.710
Sunset probably a little bit brighter


00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:28.470
than Comet TR chinshan Atlas was but a


00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:30.510
little bit harder to see it's a bit more


00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:33.510
lost in the sun's glare fading day by


00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:35.830
day as it gets higher above the Horizon


00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:38.230
so on Thursday for me here in to in


00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.470
southeast Queensland it'll set about 45


00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.710
minutes after the sun on Friday it'll


00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:44.350
set about an hour after the sun on


00:19:44.360 --> 00:19:45.830
Saturday about an hour and a quarter so


00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:47.230
you get this feel it's moving away from


00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:50.510
the Sun low on the western Horizon I'm


00:19:50.520 --> 00:19:51.549
going to get out there and try and


00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:52.870
photograph it and there are actually


00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:54.630
people getting photos of it in broad


00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.950
daylight at the minute but the havat


00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.190
there is don't do that unless you really


00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.390
know what you're doing because it's a


00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:01.909
very good way of damaging your camera


00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:04.630
your eyesight and your wallet essenti it


00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.990
could be very very good they've


00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.669
described this as a once in 160,000 year


00:20:10.679 --> 00:20:13.789
Comet I also believe it's


00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.630
uh of all Cloud origin I mean what does


00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.950
that what does that mean basically um it


00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:23.669
means that people are throwing a lassue


00:20:23.679 --> 00:20:25.909
around something that astronom probably


00:20:25.919 --> 00:20:29.029
wouldn't mention so comets move on these


00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:31.110
really elongated orbits around the Sun


00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:32.990
and when a comet's trapped on an orbit


00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:34.430
that's relatively short period you know


00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.270
in tens or hundreds or even a few


00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:39.149
thousand years it's not getting so far


00:20:39.159 --> 00:20:40.630
from the Sun that anything else is going


00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.230
to Stir It Up other than the planets in


00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:43.990
the inner solar system so Comet H is


00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.350
roughly 76 years and it comes back when


00:20:46.360 --> 00:20:48.070
you get to orbital periods of around


00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:50.390
100,000 years or so or even more than


00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.230
that you're getting Far Enough From the


00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.149
Sun that you get perturbed by passing


00:20:55.159 --> 00:20:58.270
Stars by the tidal effects of the Galaxy


00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:00.510
stuff like that so saying that this


00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:03.990
thing's on 160,000 year orbit doesn't


00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.190
mean that it will be back in 160,000


00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:07.830
years because when it gets furthest from


00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:09.669
the Sun it will be nudged around and


00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:11.029
will probably not come in on quite the


00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.909
same orbit the reason that gets thrown


00:21:13.919 --> 00:21:16.149
around though is that it's currently on


00:21:16.159 --> 00:21:18.230
160,000 year orbit so therefore it


00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.549
wasn't seen at any point in the last


00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.950
160,000 years it's a little


00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.350
specious what what it did give


00:21:25.360 --> 00:21:27.149
astronomers a bit of faith for though is


00:21:27.159 --> 00:21:29.070
that this comet has probably been past


00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:31.830
the Sun at least once before because


00:21:31.840 --> 00:21:34.590
that orbit is slightly tightly


00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:36.990
bound that gives a little bit more


00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.149
confidence that it would survive


00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:40.070
perhelion so the Comets that break up


00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:41.870
are either really small fragments of a


00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.710
bigger Comet and they're too small to


00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.990
survive all comets coming through for


00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.590
the very first time have a tendency to


00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:51.909
break apart more often so the media


00:21:51.919 --> 00:21:53.710
stories use that number because it's a


00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:55.470
big number and it makes it sound


00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.630
exciting it is not the best comic you'll


00:21:57.640 --> 00:21:59.870
see in the next 60,000 years it's


00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:01.470
possibly the best Comet of this year but


00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.510
we don't know till the year's over


00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:06.789
yet but having that orbital period that


00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.750
is indicating it's been through before


00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:10.230
gave astronom is a little bit of faith


00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:11.870
that it might survive and other the


00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:13.110
minute it's looking good there's some


00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:15.470
glorious images out online from the


00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.190
solar helus feric Observatory suro which


00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:19.750
points at the sun has a little thing in


00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:21.590
the middle to block the Sun out so it


00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:24.269
can look at solar eruptions coronal mass


00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:25.830
ejections and this comet's in the field


00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:27.909
of you at the minute and it's the third


00:22:27.919 --> 00:22:30.029
brightest comic that Soho has ever seen


00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:31.870
it's brighter than Trin Shan Atlas was


00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:33.549
at the minute the only two that were


00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:36.470
better was comic mcnaught in early 2007


00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.310
and um Comet I on in


00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:42.590
2012 so it's in steem company could be


00:22:42.600 --> 00:22:44.630
really good and it's well worth a look


00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.470
and you will see some awesome photos I


00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:48.310
can almost guarantee that gosh I'm going


00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:49.590
to have to get out there with my


00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:51.430
telescope and see if I can have a crack


00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.750
at it uh Fred we've talked about um


00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:58.029
comets a lot um and we got pretty


00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:01.789
excited late last year when um the comet


00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.269
made the news and we couldn't see it


00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:04.750
because it was cloudy in Sydney it was


00:23:04.760 --> 00:23:08.830
cloudy here um I never got one chance to


00:23:08.840 --> 00:23:11.110
see it so I'm very hopeful about this


00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:12.990
one yeah well the great thing about this


00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.350
one Andrew is you're not going to get


00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:16.750
have to get up at 3:00 in the morning as


00:23:16.760 --> 00:23:18.750
as jonty did to photograph the the last


00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:24.510
one so uh yeah so um I I'm sure that


00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:26.990
fingers will be crossed sadly mine won't


00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.950
be because two days days time I'll be


00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.390
very well up in the northern hemisphere


00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.630
uh in the Arctic Circle in fact so uh


00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.950
that's going to take me well away from


00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.950
uh night sky viewing of this comet in


00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:40.870
the evening Sky maybe when you take off


00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.350
you could just take your telescope and


00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:43.750
shove it out the window of the plane


00:23:43.760 --> 00:23:46.510
that I I just think depending what time


00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:49.549
you fly if you're taking off in the


00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:50.909
early evening you might get to see it


00:23:50.919 --> 00:23:52.190
from the plane window and that's a good


00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.390
way of been above the clouds it is


00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.710
indeed yeah it's uh it's an afternoon


00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.269
flight jonty up to Bangkok and then from


00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.390
there up to


00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.430
Stockholm so to be on the western side


00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:05.430
of the


00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.590
aircraft um my seat is already picked so


00:24:08.600 --> 00:24:10.870
that I will be next to my


00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:14.789
wife you probably need to be looking at


00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:18.149
her yes indeed H yeah it's very exciting


00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:20.630
so something to keep an eye out for and


00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.230
jny just quickly uh if people want to


00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.830
have a a go at seeing this um best time


00:24:26.840 --> 00:24:29.830
best way uh the further south you are in


00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:32.350
the world the better um actually I think


00:24:32.360 --> 00:24:34.149
about where I am really the nearer you


00:24:34.159 --> 00:24:35.990
are to the Equator the more steeply


00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.389
things set and so the higher above the


00:24:38.399 --> 00:24:40.190
Horizon they are a given amount of time


00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:42.350
before they set so if it's 30 minutes


00:24:42.360 --> 00:24:43.789
before something sets and you're at the


00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:45.350
poll it's pretty much on the horizon


00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:47.110
already if you're on the equator it's


00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:50.190
setting vertically but have a play


00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:51.950
around with one of the wonderful free


00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.029
planetarian programs I often use the


00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:56.190
larium um because that's a free one you


00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:57.990
can just open in a browser window set


00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.389
you look and Away you go and also what I


00:25:01.399 --> 00:25:02.909
did earlier on cuz I'm looking at trying


00:25:02.919 --> 00:25:04.510
to get some photos Thursday Friday


00:25:04.520 --> 00:25:06.350
Saturday if the weather holds out is


00:25:06.360 --> 00:25:08.830
actually hop on to Google Maps have a


00:25:08.840 --> 00:25:10.269
look for a place around you because you


00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.430
can drop that little Peg man in and have


00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:14.470
a look what the Horizon's like just


00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:15.870
south of West and there you can find


00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:17.269
somewhere with the lowest Western


00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.430
Horizon possible because it is going to


00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.909
be quite low to the Horizon and if you


00:25:21.919 --> 00:25:24.389
can't see with an naked eye lob a camera


00:25:24.399 --> 00:25:26.310
especially if you've got a DSLR type


00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:28.710
camera bang it on a tripod where it


00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.870
should be and play around with the


00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:31.470
exposure times cuz the images I was


00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.950
showing before we started recording I


00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:35.470
could just see the comic with a naked


00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:36.909
eye but it was really obvious through


00:25:36.919 --> 00:25:38.750
the back of the camera and it was really


00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:42.029
obvious in the lens so that Comet I


00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:43.350
could see with the naked eye and it's


00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:45.110
like yeah wow I can see it brilliant but


00:25:45.120 --> 00:25:47.470
the photos came out better than my view


00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.269
was right and and get out of town get


00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:51.149
somewhere


00:25:51.159 --> 00:25:53.750
dark dark dark's a bit less relevant


00:25:53.760 --> 00:25:55.389
when you're still so close to Sunset I


00:25:55.399 --> 00:25:56.750
mean we're talking about observing here


00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:58.909
during Twilight at least


00:25:58.919 --> 00:26:01.990
even if you go a a week from now it's


00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:03.909
still only setting at about 8:00 p.m. so


00:26:03.919 --> 00:26:05.630
it's only an hour and a bit after Sunset


00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.470
and by then it will be fading relatively


00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:09.430
quickly if it goes really well it might


00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.990
be visible with a naked eye for about a


00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.750
fortnite but that's tenuously but


00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:15.389
basically find somewhere with a low


00:26:15.399 --> 00:26:17.750
Western Horizon slightly South of West


00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:19.510
actually lower the better because if


00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:21.070
there's trees in the way or buildings in


00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:22.870
the way or people in the way they're


00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:24.310
going to get in the way of the Comet so


00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:26.430
ideally want the Western Horizon to be


00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.430
as low as possible yeah okay well we've


00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.470
got some plenty of Flat Earth around


00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:34.470
this part of the world use a different


00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:38.110
terminology plenty of flat ground uh so


00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:40.389
U yeah out where we are in the Northwest


00:26:40.399 --> 00:26:42.110
it's uh probably or the Central West


00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:44.070
it's probably a great place to uh make


00:26:44.080 --> 00:26:46.549
some observations um lots of stories


00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:50.070
online uh space.com but yeah just do a


00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:53.909
search for Comet C 2024 G3 and uh yeah


00:26:53.919 --> 00:26:56.190
you won't be disappointed this is Space


00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:57.830
Nuts Andrew Dunley here with Professor


00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:03.510
Fred and Professor johy


00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:07.230
Horner Space Nuts our next story takes


00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:10.750
us to the outer solar system uh I I kind


00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:12.909
of um introduced this as don't be it


00:27:12.919 --> 00:27:16.310
Karen kiss and tell this is actually an


00:27:16.320 --> 00:27:18.269
interesting story about how Pluto got


00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.870
its Moon and um you know we we talk


00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.870
about how Earth got its moon with that


00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.990
massive collision with thear now they're


00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:28.750
starting to think something different


00:27:28.760 --> 00:27:32.870
happened with the moon Caron and Pluto


00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.230
so um take it away whoever wants to pick


00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.669
this one up first I think this is


00:27:37.679 --> 00:27:39.310
definitely jonty's because he's a


00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:42.310
planetary scientist okay there you go


00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:45.590
yeah so we've got kind of broadly three


00:27:45.600 --> 00:27:47.430
types of moon in the solar system we've


00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.470
got what we call the regular satellites


00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:50.830
which you see around the giant planets


00:27:50.840 --> 00:27:54.149
and that's IO Europa ganam clist Titan


00:27:54.159 --> 00:27:55.789
and the thinking about them is they form


00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.830
around their planets like the planets


00:27:57.840 --> 00:27:59.430
form around the Sun you get a disc of


00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.549
material these things are creating that


00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.310
disc and that's why they're pretty much


00:28:03.320 --> 00:28:04.909
in the plane of the Equator of those


00:28:04.919 --> 00:28:07.029
planets and they look like minlan


00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:09.230
systems essentially you've then got what


00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:10.830
are called The Irregular satellites


00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:12.990
which are things typically again around


00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.990
the giant planets that are way way out


00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:17.990
as much as 20 30 million kilometers from


00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.870
the planet moving on really bizarre


00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:21.830
orbits really eccentric really inclined


00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:24.389
and typically small icy objects and then


00:28:24.399 --> 00:28:26.669
we understand because they were captured


00:28:26.679 --> 00:28:28.190
really straightforward that's how you


00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:29.470
form them they didn't form where they


00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.110
are they were grabbed then you've got


00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:33.990
the audities which are the things that


00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.789
don't fit either of those models and


00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.310
they're the moon then Neptunes Moon


00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:41.029
Triton and a number of the satellite


00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.990
systems around smaller objects Pluto and


00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:46.389
Kum being kind of the really Prime


00:28:46.399 --> 00:28:49.470
obvious example and those ones didn't


00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:51.070
form in either of the two kind of


00:28:51.080 --> 00:28:53.190
standard ways they have to be formed


00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:55.470
somewhere different and it seems to be


00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.269
that collisions are part of that story


00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.549
and the real key Point here is that for


00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.870
the Earth and the moon for PL Pluto and


00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.430
karon the mass of the Moon compared to


00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.310
the mass of the planet is really really


00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:09.470
really big so for the regular


00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:11.669
satellites I'm all their Mass together


00:29:11.679 --> 00:29:13.909
and it's still less than 110,000 of the


00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:16.149
mass of that planet The Irregular


00:29:16.159 --> 00:29:18.789
satellites are even less but the Moon is


00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.909
an 81st of the mass of the Earth Caron


00:29:20.919 --> 00:29:23.549
is a sixth of the mass of Pluto and that


00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:25.590
just doesn't work with a disc that


00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:28.590
doesn't make sense equally Capt ing them


00:29:28.600 --> 00:29:30.389
gravitationally doesn't work so you need


00:29:30.399 --> 00:29:32.070
the dissipative force you need something


00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:34.350
to slow them down otherwise they just


00:29:34.360 --> 00:29:36.549
fly by get perturbed and escape again


00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:39.389
you need something to put the brakes on


00:29:39.399 --> 00:29:41.430
added to that you've got the


00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.070
similarities and the differences between


00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:45.350
the Moon and the object that hurts it


00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:46.950
and we knew this since the Apollo


00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:49.590
Astronauts brought samples back our moon


00:29:49.600 --> 00:29:51.950
is almost identical in composition to


00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.830
the Earth but it's lacking in heavy


00:29:54.840 --> 00:29:56.990
elements like iron and nickel and it's


00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.029
overly rich in the light stuff that


00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:00.789
makes up the Earth's crust and that led


00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:02.990
people in the ' 80s to come up with the


00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.990
big smash idea that the Earth was in a


00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.269
collision with something and this was


00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:09.789
after it was differentiated so all the


00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:11.389
heavy stuff was in the middle all the


00:30:11.399 --> 00:30:13.230
light stuff was in the crust and that


00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:14.870
splashed off and formed the moon and so


00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.350
you get a moon that is formed from the


00:30:16.360 --> 00:30:19.149
same material as the Earth is really big


00:30:19.159 --> 00:30:21.230
but doesn't have all the iron and


00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.470
nickel then when it comes to Pluto


00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:25.230
you've got a very similar looking system


00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:26.950
you've got a very big moon compared to


00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.470
the planet really close in so it doesn't


00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.710
look like a capture scenario and that


00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.590
led to a lot of models through the '90s


00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:36.509
coming out with a story that Pluto and


00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.710
karon and also the Little Moons Nicks


00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.470
and Hydra keas and sticks and they


00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.590
formed in a giant Collision just the


00:30:44.600 --> 00:30:46.470
same as our moon formed around the earth


00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:48.830
there was a big splash and you get this


00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:50.590
sack light system with one big one and a


00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:53.070
few little bits and that works really


00:30:53.080 --> 00:30:54.950
well that is a perfectly valid


00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:56.590
explanation but the new model is


00:30:56.600 --> 00:30:58.389
slightly different and it only really


00:30:58.399 --> 00:31:00.430
works because when you're that far from


00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:02.750
the Sun the speeds are lower so that


00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:05.110
means you can get gentler collisions


00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:06.310
everything goes around slower the


00:31:06.320 --> 00:31:08.669
further you are from the Sun and so this


00:31:08.679 --> 00:31:10.870
new modeling has said let's have a look


00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:12.350
at whether you need it to be a


00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:14.629
catastrophic Collision run a lot of


00:31:14.639 --> 00:31:16.269
simulations essentially to see what


00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:19.230
other the scenarios you can get and they


00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.549
included in this the fact that Pluto and


00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:23.950
Caron will be physically strong objects


00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.070
they're not Blobs of liquid water


00:31:26.080 --> 00:31:27.509
they're solid material that has an


00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.110
inherent strength to it and they found a


00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:31.870
set of scenarios within that where you


00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.430
can get a gently enough Collision that


00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.029
Pluto and the thing hitting it that


00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.230
becomes Caron Collide and semi- merge


00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.509
giving you an object a bit like a


00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.389
snowman with a small bulge and a big


00:31:42.399 --> 00:31:45.190
bulge but never fully merge but that


00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.830
Collision dissipates energy you have a


00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:50.310
collision that like absorbs and they


00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:52.830
bounce off each other but the speed has


00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:54.629
been slowed down because the Collision


00:31:54.639 --> 00:31:56.269
happened essentially you've got


00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.310
cushioning for one of a better word that


00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:01.230
means that karon doesn't move away from


00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.230
Pluto quickly enough to escape but


00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.269
instead gets trapped so you get this


00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:08.789
collisional capture and that can set up


00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.269
the system as it looks and a bit of the


00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:11.990
debris that goes off would form those of


00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.909
the moons and it seems equally valid to


00:32:14.919 --> 00:32:17.230
the catastroph more catastrophic


00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.470
Collision version but what I really like


00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.029
about it is there's a very clear


00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:23.629
prediction you can make from this which


00:32:23.639 --> 00:32:26.230
is that if you have the catastrophic


00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:27.590
Collision type model like the Earth and


00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:28.549
Moon


00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:30.430
then Pluto and karon will essentially be


00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.149
made of the same stuff they'll be


00:32:32.159 --> 00:32:34.629
compositionally identical maybe with a


00:32:34.639 --> 00:32:35.990
little bit of a difference because of


00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.549
the differentiation of Pluto you might


00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.350
get Caron being a little bit underdense


00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:42.190
and Pluto being denser with this model


00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.149
you've got two discrete objects that


00:32:44.159 --> 00:32:47.350
form separately and remain fairly


00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:49.629
discrete they remain separate objects


00:32:49.639 --> 00:32:52.070
with a little bit of mixing which means


00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:53.669
that if there were any compositional


00:32:53.679 --> 00:32:55.509
differences when they formed they should


00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.230
still have them now we can't test at the


00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.750
minute we need to go there and land on


00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:01.990
them and drill them and do samples yes


00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.470
but it's another of those examples we


00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:04.870
talked about it with the cosmology


00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.509
earlier on where theories make


00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:09.029
predictions that allow you to test them


00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.070
and Rule between them and the big test


00:33:11.080 --> 00:33:13.470
of this compared to the other model is a


00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.789
compositions is the densities it's stuff


00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.190
that we can in theory in the future


00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:20.590
check and it's really important because


00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:23.350
one of the big problems with our


00:33:23.360 --> 00:33:24.430
understanding of the objects Beyond


00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.070
nature and the trans neptunian objects


00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:27.389
of which Pluto is just one of the


00:33:27.399 --> 00:33:28.389
biggest


00:33:28.399 --> 00:33:29.909
is that there's actually quite a few of


00:33:29.919 --> 00:33:31.669
these binaries that have very similar


00:33:31.679 --> 00:33:34.549
masses out there so this might not be an


00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.710
isolated event and the better we can


00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:38.389
understand those mechanics the better a


00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:40.710
handle we have on planet formation Moon


00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.070
formation and also these smaller objects


00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:44.750
so it's really fascinating and for me


00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:48.149
it's one that is setting up future


00:33:48.159 --> 00:33:50.149
investigations probably sets the scene


00:33:50.159 --> 00:33:53.310
for New Horizons match Mark 2 in 20


00:33:53.320 --> 00:33:54.909
years 30 years time when the technolog


00:33:54.919 --> 00:33:56.950
is a bit better where we can actually go


00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:58.509
there and put a l down and do some


00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.710
something and actually test this


00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.990
exciting yeah it's so it was more of a


00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.669
scrape rather than a crash um similar to


00:34:05.679 --> 00:34:10.230
the way my wife Parks a car um but but


00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:11.669
this was really quick when you talk


00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:13.430
about the age of the solar system the


00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.790
age of the universe with you know


00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.069
millions billions of years this was a


00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.950
really quick encounter it's like 10 to


00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:24.470
15 hours of of contact and then they


00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.190
were apart again it's that's why they're


00:34:26.200 --> 00:34:28.430
calling it a kiss I suppose it is and I


00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:29.950
mean that time


00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:32.750
scale sounds surprisingly short but in


00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:34.589
the scheme of an impact that's actually


00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:36.909
surprisingly long because if you think


00:34:36.919 --> 00:34:38.190
about the collision between the Earth


00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:40.149
and the moon if the moon's coming in


00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:43.190
well if fear's coming in at the slowest


00:34:43.200 --> 00:34:44.909
possible speed you can come in and hit


00:34:44.919 --> 00:34:47.069
the earth without being gravitationally


00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:49.069
bound it's traveling at 10 kilometers a


00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:53.190
second the Earth is 12,000 kmers across


00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:55.710
so that's 12200 seconds for the moon for


00:34:55.720 --> 00:34:57.230
the the to go from one side of the Earth


00:34:57.240 --> 00:34:58.510
to the other


00:34:58.520 --> 00:35:02.430
um 12,000 seconds is what um 200 minutes


00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.230
three three and a bit hours yeah Pluto


00:35:05.240 --> 00:35:07.270
is much smaller than the earth so 10


00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.430
hours here is indicative of that slower


00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.510
speed the only way you can stay in


00:35:11.520 --> 00:35:13.150
contact for 10 hours is to be moving


00:35:13.160 --> 00:35:15.190
much slower and you just couldn't do


00:35:15.200 --> 00:35:17.349
that speed in the inner solar system so


00:35:17.359 --> 00:35:18.910
it's a long speed for a collision but


00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:20.630
it's a short time in terms of the edge


00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:21.790
of the solar


00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.069
system that's fascinating yeah any


00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.030
thoughts Fred um only that um you know


00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:30.069
sometimes we probably would have had


00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.510
collisions between objects which are


00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:35.829
even more gentle uh so that without


00:35:35.839 --> 00:35:37.430
demolishing each other they do stick


00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.270
together and I'm thinking of aroth the


00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.349
um the object that was observed by New


00:35:42.359 --> 00:35:44.790
Horizons after the Pluto encounter in


00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:49.270
2015 um aroth is not actually two blobs


00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.990
it's two pancakes stuck together


00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.230
edge-wise uh and so maybe that was a


00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:57.790
kiss that turned into a rather longer


00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.990
Embrace because it's clearly still like


00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.710
that and there's quite a few examples of


00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:05.109
that through the cell system it C


00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:08.109
another one which the Japanese send hus


00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:10.190
that's s what's called a contact bound


00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:12.270
there's quite a few of them around where


00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:13.829
things have spiral in but they done it


00:36:13.839 --> 00:36:15.750
so gently that they just balance against


00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:18.030
each other and these objects are small


00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:20.670
enough that their mutual attraction


00:36:20.680 --> 00:36:22.270
isn't strong enough to overcome their


00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:24.270
physical strength so if you put the


00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:26.069
Earth and Venus in physical contact with


00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:27.670
each other we wouldn't be recording this


00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:29.670
podcasts but they'd eventually kind of


00:36:29.680 --> 00:36:32.150
smush together yeah but if they're small


00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:33.670
enough the physical strength enough to


00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:35.550
resist that and you get these contact


00:36:35.560 --> 00:36:38.030
bin fascinating all right uh if you'd


00:36:38.040 --> 00:36:40.150
like to read about that story uh you can


00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:42.349
also find that on


00:36:42.359 --> 00:36:44.550
space.com uh we're just about finished


00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.990
but uh we um we probably have enough


00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.390
time to just go very quickly over what


00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:51.870
will be the best of the best things to


00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.870
see astronomically speaking in 2025 any


00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:57.950
thoughts


00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.030
go for it jonty I'll do this I'll do the


00:37:00.040 --> 00:37:02.510
space launches you do the


00:37:02.520 --> 00:37:04.950
astronomy there's a few things that are


00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:06.390
good to watch and I always like the


00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.750
things that you can look at without


00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.950
needing specialist equipment so things


00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:11.829
like eclipses and meteor showers this


00:37:11.839 --> 00:37:14.670
year is absolutely terrible for eclipses


00:37:14.680 --> 00:37:17.030
of the sun there's two very very poor


00:37:17.040 --> 00:37:18.870
partial eclipses one of which you H see


00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.069
if you're in Far Northeastern Canada the


00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:22.550
other for which you'd need to go to


00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:23.589
Antarctica and they're going to be


00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.109
unimpressive anyway but we've got two


00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.030
really good total LUN eclipses the first


00:37:29.040 --> 00:37:31.270
of which comes at the end of March um


00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:33.710
mid-march actually 14th of March and


00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:34.870
that's going to be really good for


00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:36.270
people in the Americas you're going to


00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.550
get a proper blood moon as has become


00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:40.750
kind of common pance back in the middle


00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:42.470
of the night you see the full eclipse


00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.430
for us here in Australia we get a really


00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:47.309
good one unfortunately Before Dawn so


00:37:47.319 --> 00:37:48.829
yeah Grumble Grumble about that but


00:37:48.839 --> 00:37:50.950
that's on the 8th of September and


00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.589
that'll be a really good one with like


00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:54.510
more than an hour and a half of totality


00:37:54.520 --> 00:37:55.950
so the moon Will Be Blood Red for an


00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:58.230
hour and a half which is kind of cool


00:37:58.240 --> 00:38:00.670
we've also got meia showers active as


00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:03.430
always we've got for us here in southern


00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:05.750
hemisphere the E quarian are our second


00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.430
best shower of the Year Northern


00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.349
Hemisphere gets better ones but for a z


00:38:09.359 --> 00:38:11.950
trar are our second best and they're


00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:13.710
good particularly in the first week of


00:38:13.720 --> 00:38:16.230
May and again they get up before Dawn to


00:38:16.240 --> 00:38:17.589
see them unfortunately but it's good


00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:19.829
time to go camping as the weather cools


00:38:19.839 --> 00:38:22.230
down in our Autumn the Geminids in


00:38:22.240 --> 00:38:24.190
December are the best shower of the year


00:38:24.200 --> 00:38:26.630
every year they're awesome I love them


00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:28.069
they're brilliant from the Northern


00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.470
Hemisphere but they're also good for the


00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:30.990
southern hemisphere it's Northern


00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:33.150
Hemisphere gets them a bit better their


00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:35.270
Peak on the 13th and 14th of December


00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.190
and this year the moon's out of the way


00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:38.910
so it's perfect unlike last year where


00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:40.270
the blind sight was in the way and we


00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:41.829
had all this natural light pollution and


00:38:41.839 --> 00:38:44.670
it was a bit disappointing yeah this


00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:46.190
year they'll be really good so they're


00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:48.109
really my highlights and a lovely way to


00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.630
finish the year with the geminates


00:38:50.640 --> 00:38:53.390
excellent they're my birthday meteors CU


00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.829
that's they peek on my


00:38:55.839 --> 00:38:58.950
birthday what lifting up off yeah just


00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.150
um you know the things to watch for this


00:39:01.160 --> 00:39:03.430
year are going to be star it's going to


00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.829
be Starship Starship Starship Starship


00:39:06.839 --> 00:39:08.870
uh we are expecting the seventh test


00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:12.069
launch of Starship anytime now possibly


00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:14.030
tomorrow uh compared with where we're


00:39:14.040 --> 00:39:15.630
recording at the moment so by the time


00:39:15.640 --> 00:39:17.910
this recording goes to air it might have


00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.829
happened the seventh test flight which


00:39:19.839 --> 00:39:23.510
will once again we hope bring the uh the


00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:26.470
Falcon super heavy back to its Chopstick


00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.750
Landing down there at bokach chicao and


00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.829
the other space I like to look out for


00:39:31.839 --> 00:39:35.550
perhaps is the eventual return of sun


00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:37.910
Williams and Butch Wilmore who've been


00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:39.950
stuck up on the International Space


00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:42.950
Station since Jun June last year uh


00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.670
because I think their their return has


00:39:45.680 --> 00:39:47.589
now been pushed another month further


00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:49.589
down the track I think it's no earlier


00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:51.430
than the 25th of March was the last


00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.950
thing I read uh which considering they


00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.470
expected to be at the International


00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:58.030
Space Station for a week uh is pretty


00:39:58.040 --> 00:40:00.390
good going really yeah yeah that's the


00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.190
thing you never know what you're in for


00:40:02.200 --> 00:40:04.069
when you get up the International Space


00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.510
Station but uh yeah I'm sure they'll be


00:40:06.520 --> 00:40:08.309
really happy to get home


00:40:08.319 --> 00:40:10.750
eventually um all right that just about


00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:12.790
wraps it up for this edition of Space


00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.550
Nuts don't forget to visit us online at


00:40:14.560 --> 00:40:17.630
our website Space Nuts podcast.com or


00:40:17.640 --> 00:40:20.550
SPAC nuts. don't forget our shop we've


00:40:20.560 --> 00:40:22.230
got a post Christmas sale everything's


00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:23.670
the same price as it was before


00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:27.870
Christmas so yes have a look at that


00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:29.470
uh and don't forget our social media


00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.630
platforms as well and our uh thanks to


00:40:32.640 --> 00:40:34.349
Professor Fred Watson who will be around


00:40:34.359 --> 00:40:36.990
for one more episode not just this one


00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.470
we'll do the Q&A episode with him soon


00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.430
but then he'll be off um up around


00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.870
Finlandia or somewhere like that and uh


00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:48.270
jonty will be sitting in his chair for


00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:50.510
uh a few weeks so Professor Fred Watson


00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:52.190
and Professor johy horer thank you so


00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:55.230
much as always great pleasure Andrew


00:40:55.240 --> 00:40:58.589
keep up the good work I never have all


00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.710
right um thank you jent we'll catch you


00:41:00.720 --> 00:41:03.030
on the next episode this is Space Nuts


00:41:03.040 --> 00:41:05.349
And from me Andrew Dunley OB by the way


00:41:05.359 --> 00:41:06.950
uh Hugh in the studio is here today


00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:08.550
hello Hugh what where have you been for


00:41:08.560 --> 00:41:10.270
the last six months it's good to have


00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.829
you along and guess what he did nothing


00:41:12.839 --> 00:41:14.390
and for me Andrew Dunley thanks for your


00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:15.750
company we'll see you on the very next


00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.910
episode of Space Nuts bye-bye Space Nuts


00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:22.270
you'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.349
podcast available at Apple podcasts


00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:28.390
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00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:30.630
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00:41:30.640 --> 00:41:33.710
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00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:38.800
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