From Dark Matter to Dormant Comets: Your Astronomy Questions Answered | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Hi there. Thank you for joining us. This


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is Space Nuts and it's a Q&A edition. My


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name is Andrew Dunley. What's Q&A stand


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for? I don't know. But we've got uh


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questions from our audience which we


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will answer. Q. Oh, there it is. Um


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Casey wants to know about dark matter


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stars even though they don't exist and


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we can't answer the question. Uh Michael


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um he's sent one in about dormant comets


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uh comets which I found most intriguing.


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So, uh, be interesting to discover what


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that's about. Uh, Derek is asking about


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gravitational slingshots.


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And Jason is asking what Fred thinks of


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the new wave of smart telescopes. Ooh.


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Uh, we'll talk about all of that on this


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episode of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space Nuts. 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> space notes


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>> astronauts reported feels good.


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>> And he's back again to try and sort all


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that out. It's Professor Fred Watson,


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astronomer at large. Hello Fred.


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>> Hello Andrew. Very good to see you


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again.


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>> And you too. It's been minutes.


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>> It has. Um I I might add a postcript to


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um when we recorded the last session.


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>> Yeah. Um, I just got back from the


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annual science meeting of the


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Astronomical Society of Australia and I


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meant to mention that uh an old friend


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of Space Nuts was there and I had dinner


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with him um on the first night and that


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is Peter Vean who is our wow


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>> our contact in the world of Mond


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modified Newtonian dynamics.


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>> Yeah.


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>> So terrific.


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>> Nice to nice to do. He's still monding,


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although um I think he's he's I think


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he's uh had some hurdles to overcome.


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So, we might have to do an update on


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that down the track. Well, while we're


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sending shoutouts, I'll send a shout out


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to an Instagram um presence person named


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the Greens Goddess, uh a female golfer


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who uh started following me, I don't


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know, some time ago, and I thought I'll


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do the honor of following her back. and


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uh she posted a video of her swing the


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other day and I noted a couple of


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issues with it. So I I sent her a note


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and said, "Look, you got a bit of a


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reverse pivot going there.


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>> Try try this drill to sort it out."


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Anyway, she sent a note back and said,


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"Oh, that's very helpful. By the way,


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big fan of space nuts."


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>> Okay, that's nice.


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>> Might have been why she followed me in


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the first place, but anyway,


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>> good on the green goddess. I like that.


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>> Good for her. All right. Um, shall we


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answer some questions, Fred?


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>> Yes, we might as well, might we? Now


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we're here.


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>> Let's get into our first one. And it


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comes from one of our regular


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contributors. This is Casey.


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>> Hello, Fred. We are Drew Q. This is


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Casey from Colorado.


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I know that dark matter stars are


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completely hypothetical at this point.


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I've read before that they would be some


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of the brightest objects in the sky if


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they do exist, though. I was wondering


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if you could please explain why that is


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and also how they can get so hot without


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any fusion. Hope you're both well and


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thanks for the podcast.


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>> Thank you, Casey. I just knocked


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everything over on my desk, but um it'll


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it'll wash out. Um dark matter stars. I


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think I think somebody's brought these


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up once before if I'm correct in my


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thinking, but um maybe maybe we should


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start by trying to explain what they're


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supposed to be.


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Yes. Well, that's right. It's um uh I


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mean the first of all, dark matter is


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still hypothesized really


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notwithstanding uh what we're just


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saying about um Peter Vean that is an


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alternative theory to try and account


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for the uh the low access the um the way


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uh the galaxies tell us that there is


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something there that we can't see. uh um


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he his uh version of that is something


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called mod modified Newtonian dynamics


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that suggests that accelerations


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uh do not follow the normal Newtonian


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rules at very low levels. I think I


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think that's going into doubt though


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now. So I think I suspect that dark


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matter is um is basically


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uh consolidating its position as the


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number one theory for why galaxies don't


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just fly apart because they've got all


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this stuff in them that we call dark


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matter. So I think it's true to say um


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that despite a few people looking in


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other directions, most of the scientific


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community believes that we are we are in


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a universe that's whose matter content


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is dominated by something that we can't


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see sort of outweighs normal matter by 5


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to one.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Uh and it's probably some sort of


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subatomic particle that we just have not


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uh come to grips with yet. Now once you


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accept the idea of new species of


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subatomic particles that only interact


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with uh everything else through gravity,


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they don't interact through


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electromagnetic radiation or any other


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kind of uh particle physics. It's only


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gravity that lets us know that these


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things uh these dark matter particles


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are there hypothesized still but likely


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to be there. uh and it's their own


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gravitational attraction that stops


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galaxies falling apart or flying apart


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because they're rotating too quickly.


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>> So that's that's what dark matter is.


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Now um on that bare framework or


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foundation scientists have built up some


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models of what dark matter particles


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might be. And um in particular there is


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an idea that if dark matter particles


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come together then a bit like matter and


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antimatter they would annihilate and


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basically produce radiation.


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And that's the idea of a dark matter


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star that you've got a hypothetical


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object u bigger than your average solar


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system. So they're very large.


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>> Wow. uh made of dark matter. Uh but what


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makes them shine is the dark matter


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particles self annihilating.


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Uh and there are some pundits who


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believe


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that the very first stars that formed


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when the universe was in its infancy


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were actually dark matter stars. uh were


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these ones that are super bright in the


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sense that they emit a large amount of


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radiation,


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>> but not super bright in a way that you


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might imagine. And that's because they


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are so big. Um they are basically puffed


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up by the by the energy coming from this


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radiation. Uh but they because they're


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so big, their surfaces


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are relatively cool. And so what you see


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is an object in the infrared uh if


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you're looking out for a dark matter


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star or what you would see if they if


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they existed.


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>> Yeah, I get it.


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>> So um so that's why that's basically


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where the energy comes from, the


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annihilation of dark matter particles,


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self annihilation.


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Um but they yet they're they're bright


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um because of the basically the you know


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the amount of radiation that they


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generate with these uh annihilation uh


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that that makes them bright and they get


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uh to something like 10 billion times


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more energetic than the sun in terms of


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the energy that they release. Uh but as


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I said it's infrared radiation so


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they're they're really releasing it in


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the in the form of heat.


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>> So in terms of naked eye observation you


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can't see a thing. I I think that's


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right. Yes. I mean they would also be if


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we're seeing them in the early universe


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these things will be very highly


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redshifted. That means their light will


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not only be infrared but it'll be even


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redder than red infrared uh because of


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the expansion of the universe stretching


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out the light waves. Um so it it they


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might be quite difficult uh might be


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quite difficult to detect. However uh


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it's basically uh one of the things that


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the James Web telescope is looking for.


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It's looking for any evidence of dark


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matter stars. So where a normal star


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like ours um depletes its fuel and then


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turns into a red giant and then


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collapses into a white dwarf, a dark


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matter star annihilates itself.


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>> I think that would be right. I think it


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would just basically fizzle out


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>> evaporate and fizzle out. Yeah.


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>> Okay. Wow.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Thank you, Casey. Um, haven't found one


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yet, but if you do stumble across one,


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let us know.


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>> Just hand it in, please.


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>> Yes. Yes. Just Yeah, don't forget to put


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it in a lead box.


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>> That's right.


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>> Thanks for the question. Our next


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question, Fred, comes from uh Michael.


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He said, "I understand that." Oh, he


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says, "Andrew, I apologize. I still not


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do not have uh questions about dark


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matter. It's all right person before you


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did it. Uh as I have a firm


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understanding of how coffee and


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Coca-Cola power my day. Uh I understand


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that dormant comments have been


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suggested with a few even confirmed


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inside the snow line. I'm wondering how


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many might exist. Seven. There's seven.


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I have no idea. Uh and how a a best


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guess might be made to arrive at that


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number. It was my best guess. I'm going


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well here. Uh


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>> you are you're guessing well.


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>> Other than infrared telescopes and


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cameras looking for low temperature dark


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objects, what instruments on a smaller


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satellite might be best for searching


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for either or both of the Earth's Sun


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Trojan Lrange points. Uh that comes from


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Michael. Now, I'm assuming Michael's in


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Alberta because I'm going off his email


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address and it had the abbreviation AB


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and I looked that up and that's the


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abbreviation for the province of


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Alberta, Canada. But I might be wrong


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and I'm sorry if I'm way off the map,


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Michael, but thanks for the question.


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Okay. Um,


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are there are there um


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dormant comets?


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>> Thought to be. So, um, what's a dormant


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comet? Uh well, it is it would be a


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comet that has


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uh gone past the sun several times in


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its lifetime. I think that's probably


00:10:47.920 --> 00:10:53.750
the bottom line. Uh it's uh an old comet


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and uh because every time a comet gets


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near the sun, it basically radiates its


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uh gas and dust into space. uh the gas


00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:06.949
turns into a kind of plasma. It's


00:11:06.959 --> 00:11:10.550
excited by the sun's radiation. Uh and


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so you get what we call a gas tail for a


00:11:12.560 --> 00:11:15.190
for a comet. And um you can also get a


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dust tail because comets are dusty


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objects with this sort of frozen gas


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around them. The the dust leaks out when


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the when the gas blows away. And so you


00:11:25.040 --> 00:11:29.430
get uh comets have two tails. So, um,


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imagine,


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uh, one of these things that's gone


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around the sun several times, and


00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:40.310
basically it would


00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:44.150
it would it would have a kind of crusty


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layer to it, an outer layer, uh, which


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is the the dust sort of coagulating on


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the surface. So, the gas has has been


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blowing dust off, but there's still a


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residual dust layer that might give you


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this crust around the edge of it. That


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means that even though it goes near the


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sun, the sun doesn't penetrate uh the


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sun's radiation and heat don't penetrate


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the dust and so it doesn't actually uh


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stir into action. It doesn't start


00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:15.990
behaving like a comet, which is to


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release its gas and dust.


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>> Okay. Um and so uh that's um you know


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that would that would be a dormant comet


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once one that's gone to sleep. Um what


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might stir it back into action is if you


00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.470
had a dormant comet colliding with


00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.470
something else. Uh hopefully not the


00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.110
Earth uh but you know maybe another


00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.389
another u an asteroid or or something


00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:48.949
like that uh that might disturb that


00:12:48.959 --> 00:12:52.550
that dusty crust on the outside or


00:12:52.560 --> 00:12:55.590
crusty dust uh the sort of crust of the


00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.310
over the ice and then if you could


00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:00.870
expose the icy surface to the sun's


00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:02.710
radiation then it would it would


00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.430
basically start giving you what we would


00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.430
call an active comet as


00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.430
Um I mean the way they are and this is


00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.030
really the n of the question I guess how


00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:12.230
do you detect them


00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.509
>> because the problem is um if you've got


00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:17.430
a comet even though it's made mostly of


00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.710
ice uh it's and it's got if it's got


00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.949
this um dark crust on the outside of it


00:13:24.959 --> 00:13:26.710
there's very little to distinguish that


00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.550
from an asteroid. Um and so how do you


00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:32.870
know whether this is a a dormant comet


00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:35.590
or an asteroid? And you and it's really


00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.910
quite hard to do. Uh there's not that


00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:39.750
much to to choose between them. You


00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:42.069
would be looking at a kind of thermal


00:13:42.079 --> 00:13:44.949
signature because um asteroids are cold


00:13:44.959 --> 00:13:48.949
rock. Uh dormant comets are called ice


00:13:48.959 --> 00:13:52.629
with a kind of rocky sort of um dusty


00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.110
rocky layer on the outside. Uh there's


00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.870
not that much to to differentiate


00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.629
between them until you knock some of the


00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.269
dust off and the the thing wakes up.


00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:02.150
>> Yes.


00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:05.509
>> Yeah. So um so I think um you know I


00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.550
think there's uh there's scope for us


00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:10.710
trying to do a survey but it will be


00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.269
hard to know uh whether you've you've


00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.189
picked a dormant comet or you've got an


00:14:17.199 --> 00:14:18.790
asteroid and it may well be that some of


00:14:18.800 --> 00:14:20.710
the asteroids that we consider to be


00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.350
asteroids are actually dormant comets.


00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.189
>> So they're they're super duper old. I


00:14:25.199 --> 00:14:27.110
suppose the smoking gun would be most of


00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:30.389
them have got zimmer frames.


00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.350
>> Could be. Yep. um comments in the frame.


00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.710
Um


00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.870
>> yes, I like the sound of that. You never


00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:39.350
know. Um


00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.550
>> worth looking for or not, but um yeah.


00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:45.990
Okay. So um so then they might be out


00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.150
there when Michael said that uh a few


00:14:48.160 --> 00:14:51.509
have been confirmed in the snow line.


00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.110
What's what's he meaning there?


00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.710
>> So that means so the snow line is um


00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.269
basically it's on the far side of Mars's


00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.949
orbit. Yeah. It's where um


00:15:02.959 --> 00:15:05.990
water vapor stops being vapor and


00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.350
freezes.


00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:07.670
>> Okay.


00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:10.310
>> Um it's the sort of out outer side of


00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.670
the uh of the Goldilocks zone.


00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:15.430
>> Okay, fair enough.


00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.430
>> Michael, thanks for the question. Um


00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:20.790
that was uh fascinating and um yeah, I


00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:23.110
suppose one day someone might go, "Aha,


00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.350
I've found a way." And then we've got


00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.389
the answer. This is Space Nuts. Andrew


00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:32.550
Dunley with Professor Fred Watson.


00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:34.150
>> Space Nuts.


00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:37.430
>> Oh, that was that was it.


00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:38.710
>> That was so short. I'm going to do it


00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:39.110
again.


00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.230
>> Space nuts.


00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:41.990
>> Yeah, he's got a very nice voice, hasn't


00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:42.150
he?


00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:44.870
>> He has. Yes. I can do that on my


00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:46.790
machine. Hang on.


00:15:46.800 --> 00:15:49.350
>> Yeah. Wait for it. Uh, not there. Okay.


00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.990
No, not there. Oh, here it is.


00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:57.670
>> Space nuts.


00:15:57.680 --> 00:16:00.790
I um Yeah, I think you need some uh


00:16:00.800 --> 00:16:02.949
gravis or something.


00:16:02.959 --> 00:16:07.910
>> I can do it with this one.


00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.550
>> Yeah, I could I could go on forever.


00:16:10.560 --> 00:16:13.269
>> I know you could.


00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.710
>> But I won't. Um Yeah. Anyway, I I'm sure


00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.509
you can use that in uh suitable uh


00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:21.749
environments that um I mean audio


00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:23.990
environments that might intrigue our


00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.189
listeners or otherwise um confuse them.


00:16:27.199 --> 00:16:29.829
Indeed. Our next question comes from


00:16:29.839 --> 00:16:30.389
Derek.


00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.629
>> Hi guys, this is Derek from Southern


00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.509
Ontario and Canada again. Um just


00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.470
wondering if you could explain the


00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.350
orbital mechanics behind slingshots,


00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.550
gravitational slingshots. And uh I'm


00:16:44.560 --> 00:16:46.949
trying to understand whether the


00:16:46.959 --> 00:16:48.949
rotation of the planet has anything to


00:16:48.959 --> 00:16:51.670
do with that slingshot or if it's just


00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:53.910
uh in terms of how close you get to the


00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.710
planet. Um if you can elaborate a little


00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.150
bit on that, that would be great. Thank


00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:00.230
you. Love the podcast. Have a great day.


00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.910
>> Thank you, Derek. Uh it's a good


00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:05.510
question. Uh, and I think we've seen it


00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:07.909
used uh many times for some of these


00:17:07.919 --> 00:17:10.789
probes that have been sent um way out


00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.069
into the solar system because we find


00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.909
it's uh a much more efficient way of


00:17:15.919 --> 00:17:17.189
doing things because we haven't got the


00:17:17.199 --> 00:17:19.350
fuel to send them all the way in


00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:20.789
>> under their own steam. That was


00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.630
certainly the case with the Voyagers.


00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.189
Uh, and they they were two of the best


00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:27.350
examples of using the gas giants for


00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:28.870
slingshots.


00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.070
Um but even launching things off our own


00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:33.590
planet, there's a bit of slingshot


00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:36.230
effect, isn't there? Uh yes, that's


00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.070
right. There there is. Um so, um it's


00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:41.430
not just getting to the outer solar


00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.350
system. I think um uh the Bey Columbo uh


00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:46.870
spacecraft which is on its way to


00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:48.950
Mercury, I think that's had something


00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.430
like seven slingshots with Venus and the


00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:52.950
Earth. That's right. might be


00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:55.669
exaggerating, but um it's had a large


00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:58.789
number and that's in order to make its


00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:01.430
velocity uh match the velocity of


00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.029
Mercury


00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:04.870
um which you'd think will be easy as you


00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:06.870
drop things into the inner solar system,


00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.230
but it's not actually. It's quite hard


00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:09.430
to do.


00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.190
>> You got to kind of catch up with Mercury


00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.270
as it steams around in its orbit because


00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:15.190
it's going faster than the Earth is in


00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.029
its orbit around the sun. Um, so, um,


00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.350
yes. So, it's a very useful tool for


00:18:21.360 --> 00:18:22.870
exploring the solar system. I think


00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.549
you're about to confirm how many it's


00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:25.190
had, have you?


00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.950
>> I haven't found it yet.


00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.630
>> I'm usually pretty quick, but I'm not


00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.630
>> You are pretty quick. Yeah,


00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.789
>> it's it's proving elusive at the moment,


00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:34.230
but I'll get it. I will get it.


00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.390
>> It's had an it has had an elusive number


00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.390
of slingshots.


00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.549
uh and uh but the the bottom line is


00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.510
that it's a process that works well and


00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:46.549
is actually very much a part of the


00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.669
astronamicist's toolkit when they're


00:18:49.679 --> 00:18:53.029
actually working out the um orbits and


00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.430
um trajectories of of planets exploring


00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.190
the space


00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:58.470
>> nine slingshots.


00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.110
>> Nine slingshots. There you go. Seven was


00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:02.310
an underestimate.


00:19:02.320 --> 00:19:04.150
>> Yeah. One one at Earth, two at Venus,


00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.470
and six at Mercury itself.


00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.110
>> Yes. Fantastic. That's what you need to


00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:11.270
match Mercury's orbital speed. Quite


00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:12.710
quite remarkable.


00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.190
>> So, um, how does it work? Well, it's


00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:16.870
counterintuitive, isn't it? Because you


00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.669
think that a spacecraft falling in


00:19:19.679 --> 00:19:23.190
towards a planet, uh, it's going to gain


00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:25.590
velocity, but then as it leaves the


00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:27.909
planet, it's going to decelerate and so


00:19:27.919 --> 00:19:29.830
it would lose velocity. And you might


00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:32.470
think the two would balance up, but the


00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.710
bottom line is they don't. And it's all


00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.190
about the angle that you come in. uh


00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.669
when you intercept the planet's orbit


00:19:39.679 --> 00:19:42.870
and um if you get the angle right, you


00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.830
can have this situation where uh without


00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:48.549
making contact at all where some of the


00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.510
momentum of the planet is transferred to


00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:55.510
the spacecraft. Um and so the spacecraft


00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:58.470
gets a a push in velocity. It's velocity


00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.789
increases. the planet doesn't even


00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:02.230
notice the difference because the


00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.110
spacecraft has so little mass compared


00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:09.029
with the um with the planet. Um so it's


00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.430
balancing the veloc the momentum.


00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:13.669
Momentum of course is just the mass


00:20:13.679 --> 00:20:16.470
times the velocity. Uh and so you've got


00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.510
a very big mass transferring momentum to


00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:22.390
a very small mass and um that means you


00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:24.870
get quite a significant velocity kick uh


00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.149
in doing that. And so it's not to do


00:20:28.159 --> 00:20:32.549
with the rotation. Um, so Derek is right


00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.029
to point out that as a query. Is it to


00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.110
do with the rotation? The answer is no.


00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:39.029
So if you had a planet that wasn't


00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.430
rotating at all, uh, you could still do


00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:43.029
a gravitational slingshot very


00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:43.830
successfully with it.


00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:45.990
>> Oh, okay.


00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:50.070
>> So Okay. So does the spacecraft when


00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:52.870
it's doing the slingshot actually steal


00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.110
some of the planet's energy? Yeah,


00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:57.590
that's exactly it. It's stealing


00:20:57.600 --> 00:21:01.029
stealing momentum uh and um and using


00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:03.590
that to accelerate and sometimes quite


00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:05.430
dramatically so you know the the change


00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.070
in the orbital trajectory is really


00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:10.710
significant but it's a fantastic tool


00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.669
for exploring the planets.


00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:16.870
>> Yeah, it is until the day we can come up


00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.549
with a new way of of


00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:23.909
a new form of engine. propulsion. That's


00:21:23.919 --> 00:21:25.270
the word I was wanting.


00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:29.350
>> Uh that um renders gravitational assist


00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:30.870
unnecessary.


00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:32.549
>> Yes, that's right. At the moment, it's


00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.549
we haven't got there yet. You're right.


00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:34.950
>> Yeah,


00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.669
>> but it might. Yeah, it it could be


00:21:37.679 --> 00:21:40.710
scramjet technology. It could be nuclear


00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.789
power like fusion engines, things like


00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.430
that. We're a long way from that, but


00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.110
those are possibilities.


00:21:47.120 --> 00:21:47.750
>> Yeah.


00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:52.390
>> Yeah. Um who knows? Um, but the more you


00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:53.990
speed up in space, the more you got to


00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.510
be careful because there's lots of stuff


00:21:55.520 --> 00:21:57.590
you can bump into. You don't really want


00:21:57.600 --> 00:22:00.470
to do that at pace, do you?


00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.310
>> You got to know where all this stuff is.


00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:04.390
And that's what astronomers are for


00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:04.870
>> indeed.


00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.870
>> Tell you where it all is. Yeah.


00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.029
>> Uh, thank you, Derek. I hope that uh


00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:14.390
covered your question adequately.


00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.990
>> G. And I feel


00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.830
>> space nuts.


00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.950
What we're going to do now, Fred, is um


00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.870
we've got uh we've we had quite a


00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.190
Canadian influence in in today's show by


00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.110
the look of it. Uh this um comes from


00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:30.789
Jason in Montreal in Quebec and uh he


00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.549
says, "I'm a big fan of the show. I have


00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.870
a question regarding the rapid rise of


00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.149
fully automated smart telescopes and


00:22:38.159 --> 00:22:41.350
their place in the modern hobby. Uh on


00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:43.190
one hand, it feels like these devices


00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.270
are an incredible cost-effective


00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:47.430
gateway. They allow beginners to dive


00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.070
straight into astrophotography and see


00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:52.230
almost instant results without spending


00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.310
thousands of dollars on complex gear


00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:57.190
right away. That immediate reward seems


00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.029
to be a fantastic way to spark a


00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.830
lifelong interest in astronomy. On the


00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:04.470
other hand, there seems to be a bit of a


00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.070
divide in the community with some


00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:08.549
traditional astrophotographers viewing


00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.750
them as cheating because the automated


00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:13.990
software removes so much of the steep


00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.230
learning curve. What do you what are


00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:17.909
your thoughts on this technological


00:23:17.919 --> 00:23:20.470
shift? Do you see smart telescopes as a


00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:22.549
positive tool for opening up the night


00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.070
sky to a broader audience or do you feel


00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:28.310
something valuable is lost when we


00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:31.590
automate the setup and tracking process?


00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:34.390
Uh I actually bought one recently and


00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.470
I've already learned a lot over the past


00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.470
few months. Getting those quick results


00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.549
didn't stop me from wanting to learn


00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.669
more. In fact, it did the opposite. Uh,


00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:45.669
it got me watching more astronomy and


00:23:45.679 --> 00:23:48.549
astrophotography videos than usual uh on


00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.630
YouTube and joining Facebook groups to


00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.350
learn from other users. And of course,


00:23:53.360 --> 00:23:56.149
let me find your podcast. Uh, thank you


00:23:56.159 --> 00:23:57.909
for the great episodes. Uh, that comes


00:23:57.919 --> 00:23:59.270
from Jason in Montreal. I'm going to


00:23:59.280 --> 00:24:00.630
show you something, Fred.


00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.390
>> Yep.


00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.070
>> Let me see.


00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:07.430
>> I've got one.


00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:08.230
>> He's got one.


00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.549
>> I've got one. And yes, it simplifies


00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.149
everything. It does all the hard work


00:24:12.159 --> 00:24:13.430
for you. But if you're someone who


00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.350
doesn't like doing the hard work,


00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:17.190
>> it's a godsend.


00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.110
>> Yeah, that's my take on it. I'll keep it


00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:21.750
nice and short. I I know I know a couple


00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:23.590
of people who've got both. They've got a


00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:26.390
traditional telescope with the whole


00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.549
>> kit set up with their computers and the


00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.110
programs and the, you know, all the the


00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:33.269
tracking technology. They like to do it


00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.909
the oldfashioned way. And uh they've


00:24:35.919 --> 00:24:38.470
also got smart telescopes


00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.390
um which do the same thing. But um you


00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.230
know you got to rob Peter to pay Paul.


00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.470
The the efficiency and simplicity of


00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.230
that uh also means that your images


00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.190
aren't going to be nearly as good as a


00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.029
traditional uh telescope. So there


00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.990
there's there's it es and flows. There's


00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.070
there's a there's a cost for the um


00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:04.950
let's not say the word cheating.


00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.549
But there is a cost. Um but it does make


00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.870
astrophotography


00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.350
immensely affordable


00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:14.470
for a lot of people.


00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.430
>> Yeah. And accessible too.


00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:21.029
>> So yes, look, I I think um you know, I


00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:22.710
think Jason sort of answered his own


00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.470
question in the way exactly the way I


00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:28.870
would. Uh that uh you've got you've got


00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.310
the two aspects of it. It's a brilliant


00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:37.590
way of getting into astrophotography


00:25:37.600 --> 00:25:42.470
um almost painlessly. Um and and and on


00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:46.549
a very good level too. Uh, and if you


00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.830
then wanted to do more, if you wanted to


00:25:49.840 --> 00:25:52.390
go for a bigger telescope and do your


00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.470
image processing in a in a more um


00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.750
perhaps a more precise way, that's still


00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:02.070
open to you. I think I think as a tool


00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:04.230
for getting people involved in


00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.149
astronomy, I think they're absolutely


00:26:06.159 --> 00:26:08.710
fabulous. I don't have one myself. Uh,


00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.230
I'm glad you've got one, Andrew, because


00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.669
I've seen some of the results from that


00:26:11.679 --> 00:26:14.630
and they are very impressive. uh got a


00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.830
number of other friends who have got


00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:17.350
them as well who are themselves


00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:19.190
professional astronomers.


00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.669
>> So


00:26:19.679 --> 00:26:21.190
>> well there's there's a photo I took the


00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:22.870
other night of the M8.


00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.669
>> Yeah. There you go. And it's lovely


00:26:25.679 --> 00:26:27.830
color balance. That's pretty well what


00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:29.909
you'd expect to see from a David Merlin


00:26:29.919 --> 00:26:30.870
image.


00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.630
>> And that's what's that's what's like


00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:34.789
David Men was a pioneer in this stuff.


00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.350
>> He did.


00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:37.350
>> Now you can do it from your lounge room.


00:26:37.360 --> 00:26:39.750
>> Yes. With you can literally with your


00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:43.190
mobile phone. on your mobile phone


00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.269
telescope outside. Um, yeah, I think


00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.590
it's I think it's fantastic. I


00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:50.630
>> I'm very much old school. I I love


00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:52.630
pottering around with a telescope with


00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:53.990
nothing more than an eyepiece. I've


00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:54.950
never really ventured into


00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.110
astrophotography. The nearest thing I've


00:26:57.120 --> 00:26:59.830
got to that has been a lot of aurora


00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:01.350
photography,


00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:03.590
>> uh, which, um, which I love and is now


00:27:03.600 --> 00:27:05.990
also a lot more accessible just with a


00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.789
smartphone. Uh, so I don't carry around


00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:10.390
all the kit I used to when we go up to


00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.870
the Arctic uh to look for the Aurora. I


00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.390
just take my smartphone. Uh, but um but


00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:19.510
you're right. Uh, I think um I think I


00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:20.870
think as I said, I think Jason's


00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:22.950
answered it perfectly. He's it's


00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.909
obviously stimulated him to go further.


00:27:25.919 --> 00:27:27.830
Uh, he loves what he's got and he's


00:27:27.840 --> 00:27:29.909
finding out more. Best of all, he found


00:27:29.919 --> 00:27:32.310
Space Nuts. That's nice. But you know


00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:36.630
it's um uh I I I would I would not be


00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.669
somebody who would uh frown upon these


00:27:39.679 --> 00:27:42.950
devices and saying in my day this we did


00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.870
not have this sort of thing. You know we


00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.630
had to do it properly. We had to


00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.350
understand what was going on. Well you


00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:51.830
can still do it and understand what's


00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:53.909
going on uh with your with your smart


00:27:53.919 --> 00:27:54.630
telescope.


00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.269
>> Well what what's sorry go ahead. mine.


00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.750
When I pick a target, it then gives me


00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:02.149
an audio briefing on what the target is,


00:28:02.159 --> 00:28:03.990
who found it, when it was found.


00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.470
>> See, that's that is fabulous.


00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.029
>> It is amazing. Fantastic.


00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.870
>> It's good stuff.


00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.029
>> It's an astronomy class as well.


00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:16.870
>> Um I think I'm right in saying that the


00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.190
the first of these smart telescopes was


00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.590
a Uni Hadron, I think. Uh that was


00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:24.470
probably six or seven years ago when I


00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.230
saw the first one of those and I was


00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.630
very impressed with it. But what I was


00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.870
going to say was that they have now come


00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.430
down in price to be


00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.310
>> um really quite affordable and it's not


00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:37.990
beyond the realms of possibility that


00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.590
one day there might be one in the Watson


00:28:39.600 --> 00:28:41.909
household. Although I do like things


00:28:41.919 --> 00:28:43.830
that are made of brass. And do you look


00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:45.590
through one end and see how?


00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:47.669
>> There are a mass of them out there and


00:28:47.679 --> 00:28:51.269
quite a few are well under $1,000.


00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:52.389
>> Yes.


00:28:52.399 --> 00:28:54.549
>> So, you know, that makes that that that


00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:57.190
makes a pretty wide target audience. The


00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:58.870
other thing mine does is you can click


00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.669
on the map on your phone and you can see


00:29:01.679 --> 00:29:04.789
where other se people are that are using


00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:06.549
the same gear as you.


00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:07.430
>> Interesting.


00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:09.350
>> I'm not sure. I'm sure that goes down


00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:10.710
with the privacy laws, but anyway,


00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.230
>> I was going to say, is there a privacy


00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.310
infringement there? Maybe


00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:16.630
>> I I've got um satellite navigation in


00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:18.389
the car that does the same thing. Shows


00:29:18.399 --> 00:29:20.630
you other users of that particular


00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.269
device, but um they've they've um


00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:25.110
curtailed it in Australia, so it only


00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:26.549
shows you where they were like 10


00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.510
minutes ago. So,


00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:28.549
>> I see. Okay.


00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.630
>> Which is pointless. Just turn it off,


00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:30.950
you know.


00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:32.950
>> Yes. It's a bit it is a bit of a waste.


00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.110
>> Yeah. that uh well, you know, we live in


00:29:35.120 --> 00:29:37.269
Nanny State, New South Wales, so you've


00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:39.029
um


00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:40.950
everything's on the table for some sort


00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:42.310
of scrutiny.


00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:44.630
>> Probably me now after saying that.


00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.789
>> But uh yeah, Jason, look, I'm a big fan


00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:49.909
and you are too. And uh it and it I


00:29:49.919 --> 00:29:52.549
don't think it does spoil the tradition


00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.470
or the traditional approach to um


00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.870
astrophotography because


00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.070
>> um vinyl records have come back. So, you


00:30:00.080 --> 00:30:01.750
know,


00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:04.389
>> you can't write anything off. Yeah.


00:30:04.399 --> 00:30:07.830
>> But I wanted that question to um I


00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:09.510
wanted you to hear that question, Fred,


00:30:09.520 --> 00:30:11.750
because I know you've got a long history


00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:13.590
in um in telescopes. You've written


00:30:13.600 --> 00:30:14.870
books about them


00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.590
>> and um this is this is the next big


00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:19.990
thing, I suppose.


00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.909
>> Yeah. While we're talking about it, um,


00:30:21.919 --> 00:30:26.070
when you were away last, um, Jonty her


00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:27.909
grabbed a couple of astrophotographers


00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:29.590
and we did a special on


00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:31.430
astrophotography,


00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.750
which I'm not sure if Hugh's released it


00:30:33.760 --> 00:30:35.590
yet, but I think he's still working on


00:30:35.600 --> 00:30:37.430
how to get that out there. It's quite a


00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.630
I think it's an hourong special on


00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.029
astrophotography and the techniques and


00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.750
how they did it and what you can do. So,


00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:47.029
if you really want to get into the nuts


00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.269
and bolts of astrophotography, have a


00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.590
look for that one. Um, I'm not sure it's


00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:54.230
been released yet. Um, it it took some


00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.669
pretty heavy editing cuz there were four


00:30:55.679 --> 00:30:57.669
people on it, so it was


00:30:57.679 --> 00:30:57.990
>> okay.


00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.310
>> It was a big show. But, uh, yeah, that


00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:02.549
one will be available soon, if not


00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:04.149
already.


00:31:04.159 --> 00:31:05.909
Uh, and thanks for all your questions.


00:31:05.919 --> 00:31:08.149
Please keep them coming at our website,


00:31:08.159 --> 00:31:09.750
spacenutspodcast.com


00:31:09.760 --> 00:31:12.389
or spacenuts.io, IO and click on the


00:31:12.399 --> 00:31:14.710
little AMA tab at the top and send us


00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.630
your text or audio questions. If you're


00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:18.310
sending us an audio question, please


00:31:18.320 --> 00:31:20.389
remember to tell us where you're from


00:31:20.399 --> 00:31:23.350
and your name. Um, it doesn't do that by


00:31:23.360 --> 00:31:25.590
itself. Uh, although I know sometimes


00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:27.190
people forget to tell us their name on


00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.230
where they're from on text as well. Um,


00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.389
but that's okay. Um, it does, you know,


00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:34.549
it's not mandatory, but it just helps us


00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.830
to know where everybody's at. Uh, Fred,


00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:40.149
we're done. Thanks very much. Oh, thank


00:31:40.159 --> 00:31:42.389
you, Andrew. Uh, good fun and great to


00:31:42.399 --> 00:31:43.909
hear from the listeners as well,


00:31:43.919 --> 00:31:45.430
especially, you know, when we get


00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.509
questions that, uh, cover everything


00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:50.070
from dark matter stars and dormant


00:31:50.080 --> 00:31:52.549
comets to the latest in telescope


00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:53.430
technology.


00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.350
>> Where else can you hear about all that?


00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:58.070
>> Exactly right. Yeah. All right. Thanks,


00:31:58.080 --> 00:31:59.190
Fred. See you soon.


00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.470
>> Yeah. Cheers. Cheers for


00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.070
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:03.909
large. And thanks to Hugh in the studio,


00:32:03.919 --> 00:32:05.190
couldn't be with us today because he


00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.470
bought a smart telescope. He's not smart


00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.389
enough to use it. And from me, Andrew


00:32:10.399 --> 00:32:12.710
Dunley, thanks for your company. We'll


00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.310
catch you on the next episode of Space


00:32:14.320 --> 00:32:15.590
Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:16.549
>> Space Nuts.


00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.630
>> You've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.950
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00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.909
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00:32:23.919 --> 00:32:26.549
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00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:28.950
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00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.830
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00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:36.360
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