Expandable Space Stations, Martian Caves & Rogue Planet Revelations | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Kind: captions
Language: en

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Hi there and happy new year. Welcome to


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a new edition of Space Nuts. My name is


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Andrew Dunley, your host. Great to have


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your company. Hope you had a great


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Christmas and New Year and looking


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forward to getting your brain crammed


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full of stuff from astronomy and space


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science over the next 12 months or so.


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Uh coming up in this episode, uh some


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really interesting stories. A proposal


00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.029
to develop an expandable space station.


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And this is one that you launch and then


00:00:29.279 --> 00:00:31.750
you put it out into space and then it


00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.310
just sort of blows up. Not, you know,


00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.950
not catastrophically, but uh it it


00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:38.869
expands and it'll be bigger than the


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International Space Station, apparently.


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Strange new caves on Mars will cast an


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eye on that. Oh yeah, that's a Think


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about it. That's a good joke. And


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observations of a rogue planet. We'll


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talk about all of that on this New


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Year's edition of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And he's back for more in 2026. His name


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is Professor Fred Watson, an astronomer


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at large. Hello, Fred.


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>> Happy New Year, Andrew. Happy New Year


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to you, too. And Mani.


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>> Yep. Um Man's out at the moment, but I I


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shall pass on your greetings. Um I can't


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believe that we're now more than a


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quarter of the way through the century.


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>> I know.


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>> Where did it go?


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>> It's just It's just flown. And it


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>> And I can't keep up.


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>> Well, you're obviously managing cuz


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you're still here.


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>> I'm still here. Yes.


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>> Yes.


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>> And um I must be too cuz I'm still here


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as well.


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>> Yes. Yes, we are. And uh onward and


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upward. Did you have a nice Christmas,


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New Year, all that? Getting nice


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presies.


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>> Uh it was great. Yes. Uh the it was a


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quiet uh festive season because as you'd


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know, we've been everywhere the two


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months before.


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>> Uh and so we finally found our our feet


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again and uh sort of more or less


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settled back into into home life. Uh


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yeah. Um I might mention the prei that I


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that I've been really enjoying and that


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is uh it's a it's almost like a dongle.


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Uh that plugs into my old iPod. My How


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old is it? It's 18 years old now. My


00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:36.790
iPod still in perfect working order.


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This is a good advert for Apple.


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>> Uh but of course it doesn't have


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Bluetooth and all it has is a little


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audio socket.


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>> Yeah. But the dongle, you plug in uh


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this small box into the audio socket,


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switch it on, and it's live on


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Bluetooth.


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>> And the sound quality is unbelievable


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compared with a straightforward wire to


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your headphones.


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>> Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that good? It's good


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that they can come up with technology to


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>> Yeah. make old old technology, old


00:03:06.959 --> 00:03:10.149
technology, an iPod work in the in the


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modern era. It it's it's really meant


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for people getting on airplanes. Yeah.


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So, you can you can plug it into the


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audio socket on your in your seat back


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and um listen on your Bluetooth


00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:24.309
headphones. But for me, it's it's just a


00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:26.869
joy because the old iPod has got far


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more music on it than any other device


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that I've got.


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>> Yeah. Yeah. I I put all my music on my


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um on my phone.


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>> Yeah. Except it falls off your phone.


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>> Um


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>> um mine certainly does. We could talk


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about that later.


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>> I haven't had that problem, but yes, we


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might look into that.


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>> Interesting.


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>> Falls off.


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>> Um, it's it's hard to know what my


00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.390
favorite gift is, but I think it's um


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or might be my rock box. You know how I


00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:56.789
steal rocks from different parts of the


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world.


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>> Yes, you do. Often illegally.


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>> Judy's got a display case for me.


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>> Oh, fabulous.


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>> Yeah. And she she bought me a labeler so


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I could put all the names down. So, it's


00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:10.630
sitting just over there. I'll next time


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I come and show it. Yeah.


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>> Yeah. I'll have a look.


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>> Some good gear in there.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Everything from a rock from Mount Etna


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to shrapnel from the Western Front.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Yes. I'll pick up anything.


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>> Yeah. I know. I think you've got the old


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meteorite in there as well.


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>> I might have, you know,


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>> from uh Yes. Antner.


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>> Yeah. Um


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>> uh Yeah, there's a there's a few. Yeah.


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I can't remember them all now. Um Oh,


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Titi. Mount Titi. Oh yeah, in um


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Tennere.


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>> Yeah, Tenneref. Yeah.


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>> Um shall we get stuck into business


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because you know we could talk about our


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Christmas presents all day.


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>> Oh god, aren't we pathetic?


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>> I do apologize to the audience. This is


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what comes of being just adequate


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really, isn't it?


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>> We're just being old and dodgy. That's


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what that's what it is.


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>> Uh let's talk about this proposal to


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develop an expandable space station.


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This this looks like something out of a


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science fiction movie when you look at


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the images. Um, obviously they're


00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.350
artistic impressions because they


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haven't actually launched this thing


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yet. But the idea behind it, and they're


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talking about putting it up sometime


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next year as a as a as a test case, but


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you you take it on a um on a rocket, let


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it out, and then it it just expands out


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into the space you want. You can do


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whatever you like with it.


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It's uh it's I think you know we're


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seeing the future here Andrew. Um and at


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the same time we're looking into the


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past because in the early 2000s uh


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company called Bigalow Aerospace uh


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thank you for reminding me of that name


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10 minutes ago because I couldn't


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remember it. Uh Bigalow Aerospace which


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actually is the same company that owned


00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.150
a chain of hotels and motel I think in


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the USA. But they pioneered the idea of


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uh of inflatable spacecraft. Um and I've


00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:03.749
forgotten what the name of the


00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:05.830
spacecraft were. They had two which were


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both launched. Uh and one uh one of them


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had it was full of photographs of people


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who'd sent their photographs to be um


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put inside this inflatable


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module. And so they were floating around


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in weightlessness. They had a camera


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looking at everybody's picture going


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past. Yours might have been one of them


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actually.


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>> Yeah. I I can't remember if I was that


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one or something else.


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>> Um


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>> it was something like Merlin or Hermes


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or something like I can't remember what


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it was.


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>> Right.


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>> Anyway, but there were two of them and


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they demonstrated pretty successfully


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that uh an inflatable spacecraft is a


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viable proposition. And you know, you


00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:45.909
might think, oh my god, what happens


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when you get a micrometeorite? Uh but it


00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:51.189
turns out that you can put you know


00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.270
various fabrics the sort of stuff that


00:06:53.280 --> 00:06:57.029
you put in bulletproof vests uh you can


00:06:57.039 --> 00:06:58.790
you can actually layer the fabrics that


00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.189
you use in the inflatable module so that


00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.309
it will be moderately resistant to


00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:05.909
micrometeorites.


00:07:05.919 --> 00:07:08.950
Uh and uh and that I think might have


00:07:08.960 --> 00:07:12.309
been what sparked this new idea. I'm not


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sure whether the new proposal owes


00:07:14.080 --> 00:07:16.390
anything to Bigalow Aerospace. It might


00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:17.909
be the same company with a different


00:07:17.919 --> 00:07:20.150
name. It's a company. Sorry, go ahead.


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>> No, it could be. I was just Yeah.


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Company called Max Space. Uh, and


00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:28.870
basically they've unveiled something uh


00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:30.870
a proposal which is called the


00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:33.670
Thunderbird Station. Love the name. Uh,


00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:35.510
which has been announced within the last


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week or so. And it's it's a large


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inflatable habitat uh that's got much


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more internal volume than your typical


00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.309
thing that you launch that is rigid. In


00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.830
fact, I think it's uh it's


00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:52.230
I can't remember the exact dimensions,


00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:54.629
but it's it's uh something like three


00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.950
times the volume of a standard uh ISS


00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:01.589
module, one of the uh the modules that


00:08:01.599 --> 00:08:04.469
goes to build up the International Space


00:08:04.479 --> 00:08:06.790
Station. So, uh, the the the main factor


00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.270
is it's it it's launched in a compact


00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:12.550
form, but it expands to 20 times its


00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:14.469
launch volume once it's in orbit. And


00:08:14.479 --> 00:08:15.990
you don't need to assemble it. You press


00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.629
a button and there's a hiss, I guess,


00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.150
and there it goes. You've got your


00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.510
inflatable module. And so, uh, there is


00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:26.950
a flight being planned uh, on a SpaceX


00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:28.869
ride share mission, as you said, next


00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.270
year uh, in which we might see a test


00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:34.070
version of one of these. uh their their


00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.949
so-called mission evolution flight to


00:08:36.959 --> 00:08:39.430
validate the on-orbit deployment uh of


00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:42.469
the module and and actually test its uh


00:08:42.479 --> 00:08:44.790
you know how resilient it is to uh


00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:48.310
micrometeoroid impact. So interesting


00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.790
stuff. Yeah, it is. Uh, and this is


00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:53.829
probably just the beginning of of


00:08:53.839 --> 00:08:57.190
a potential new way of of dealing with


00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.070
space tourism because at the moment you


00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.990
can go up and do a little bit of um


00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.670
floating around and then come back down


00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:05.590
again. You don't get a heck of a long


00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.230
time up there and it cost you a fortune.


00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:10.790
>> Yeah. Yeah. U but but this could take it


00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:13.030
to a whole new level. And I think that


00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:16.550
was the motivation behind Bigalow's uh


00:09:16.560 --> 00:09:18.710
ventures earlier in the dec earlier in


00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.310
the century. So uh yeah uh but it


00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:25.590
clearly you know it clearly has merit um


00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:27.910
if you can make it with the right degree


00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:31.350
of protection you are finding a cheap


00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.470
way of getting large volumes into space.


00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:36.630
Of course, the downside of that for


00:09:36.640 --> 00:09:38.710
astronomers is that these things being


00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.190
big are going to be much more reflective


00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.750
than your average spacecraft.


00:09:43.760 --> 00:09:46.070
>> Yeah, I've got a scenario in my head.


00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.230
Oh, look. I I think I found planet not


00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:49.910
Oh, what's that? No,


00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:51.430
>> it's Thunderbird


00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.470
>> got in the way.


00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:55.110
>> Yeah, that's exactly it. That you've got


00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.470
um you know, you've got uh satellite


00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.230
trails basically interrupting your


00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.990
observations. Yeah, we we're already


00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:04.470
seeing it with uh with Starlink in a big


00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.389
way with something like I think it's


00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.829
8,000 now that are operational. Uh and


00:10:09.839 --> 00:10:12.710
um that's going to go up to 12,000


00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:15.350
probably by the end of the decade uh and


00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.150
maybe more in the next decade. Um what I


00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:21.269
guess the the the Max Space project has


00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:23.590
in its favor is that these won't be


00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:26.470
launched 20 at a time like


00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.230
>> uh like the Starink satellites are


00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:29.350
because you won't need that many of


00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.910
them. So they'll be probably more like


00:10:31.920 --> 00:10:34.870
in terms of space rarity more more akin


00:10:34.880 --> 00:10:36.310
to the international space station


00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:37.829
although I'm sure the plan is to have


00:10:37.839 --> 00:10:40.230
many of them uh but perhaps not hundreds


00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.030
or thousands uh enough to satisfy the


00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:44.710
needs of people wanting to put


00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.430
experiments into microgravity.


00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.430
>> Yeah. And as I understand it, that


00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.190
original idea from Bigalow Aerospace uh


00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.990
was looking at commercial


00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.509
space stations and uh smaller stations


00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:03.030
for for other purposes. Um and I think I


00:11:03.040 --> 00:11:04.389
found some of the names. They had one


00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:05.990
named Nautilus.


00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:06.389
>> Okay.


00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.430
>> Um there was space complex alpha.


00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.150
>> Space Complex Bravo and another one


00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:14.470
called Skywalker.


00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:15.110
>> Apparently


00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.150
>> none of which ring any bells. No,


00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:20.230
didn't remind me of anything either. But


00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:21.190
um


00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:21.670
>> yeah,


00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:24.230
>> this is probably, you know, a a step


00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:25.750
towards


00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:28.949
um better ways of putting hardware into


00:11:28.959 --> 00:11:29.910
space.


00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:31.590
>> But I don't doubt that the day will


00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.069
come, Fred, where you'll be able to


00:11:34.079 --> 00:11:37.110
launch a purpose-built space station


00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.190
which will rotate and give you gravity


00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.870
and you'll be able to spend a couple of


00:11:40.880 --> 00:11:42.710
weeks up there just, you know, giving


00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.949
the rest of the planet the bird or


00:11:44.959 --> 00:11:46.389
whatever it is you do when you go up. I


00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:47.509
don't know what you do when you get out


00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.990
there. You know, you float


00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:50.470
>> and


00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.630
>> I'm sure you do. Yes. At the moment. Um,


00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:55.110
so I think I saw I've seen so many


00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.590
headlines over the holiday break, but I


00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.990
think I saw one. Was it a Chinese or


00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.949
maybe a Russian uh mission being planned


00:12:02.959 --> 00:12:05.509
which would have an artificial gravity


00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.590
system. So something that will rotate


00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.670
about an axis to give you artificial


00:12:09.680 --> 00:12:12.470
gravity, which we know will work. And as


00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.190
I've mentioned before, um, uh, Tom


00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.590
Spilker, who is married to Linda Spiler,


00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:20.230
the, uh, the great Cassini mission


00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.230
scientist and, uh, and Saturn, uh,


00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.150
scientist. She's, I think she's still


00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:28.470
working on uh, on some of the missions


00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:30.470
designed to go and look at Titan or


00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:33.190
Enceladus, uh, those moons of Saturn. uh


00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.430
her husband is uh somebody who


00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.670
specializes in designing artificial


00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:39.750
gravity systems for orbit and I think


00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:41.509
he's worked with NASA and so we might


00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.069
see something popping up out of their


00:12:44.079 --> 00:12:45.910
media pages sometime down the track as


00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:46.150
well.


00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:47.990
>> That would be interesting. Yeah. Uh it's


00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.710
only a matter of time before we we get


00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:52.710
there. And


00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.629
>> yeah, this this sounds amazing. And it


00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.710
it reminds me of um those pop-up


00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.190
caravans, you know, we


00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.190
they were invented a long time ago, but


00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:02.949
you you go and park your caravan, push a


00:13:02.959 --> 00:13:04.790
button, and the whole thing opens up


00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:07.030
>> and there you are. You suddenly got more


00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:08.790
space. And that that's more or less what


00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:11.350
this is about. And you can


00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:15.030
>> configure it to whatever needs arise. So


00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:17.190
it doesn't it's it's it's a one


00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:18.710
sizefits-all, but what you do on the


00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.030
inside's up to you by the sound of it.


00:13:21.040 --> 00:13:23.269
>> Yeah, that's right. Yes. So you and


00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:24.629
that's kind of what you want. It's just


00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.710
like a you know an office block where


00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.509
you um you rent out the space and your


00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.590
clients take whatever they need to


00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.190
>> do their work laboratories or


00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.470
>> engineering centers or offices whatever.


00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.949
>> Yeah. So um we will look forward to that


00:13:40.959 --> 00:13:45.590
uh test flight in early 2027 from Max


00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:47.509
Space. If you want to read all about it,


00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.710
you can do so on


00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.509
spaceconnectline.com.au.


00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.990
AU. Uh, this is Space Nuts with Andrew


00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.829
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:13:57.839 --> 00:13:59.430
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>> Okay, we checked all four systems and


00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:44.310
being with the girls


00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:45.269
>> space nets.


00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.629
>> Now, Fred, more and more news keeps


00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.069
coming out of Mars and this is quite an


00:15:52.079 --> 00:15:54.550
incredible discovery. They have found


00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:58.310
caves unlike any found on the planet


00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.629
before. And we've got the same kinds of


00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:05.670
caves on Earth. Uh that's correct. Uh I


00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:07.030
I thought you'd like this story cuz


00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:08.310
you're a Mars


00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:09.910
>> aicionado


00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:13.509
a Mars tragic. So the the scientific


00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:16.389
paper which is published uh this week I


00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.030
think in the astrophysical journal


00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:22.310
letters which is uh one of the major uh


00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.990
astronomy journals and space science


00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.150
journals in the world. Uh and the the


00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:29.030
paper which is by I think entirely


00:16:29.040 --> 00:16:32.629
Chinese authors. Um not sure maybe maybe


00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.550
there are other nationalities in there


00:16:34.560 --> 00:16:37.430
but principally Chinese authors. It's


00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.990
called water-driven accessible potential


00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.230
castic caves in Hebbrris valleys Mars


00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.949
and the subtitle is implications for


00:16:46.959 --> 00:16:49.189
subsurface habitability.


00:16:49.199 --> 00:16:51.350
Uh in other words, could living


00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.590
organisms be found in these in these


00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:56.230
caves or evidence of there having been


00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.310
living organisms? So what what these


00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.509
scientists have done is and you know


00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.110
this again is a beautiful illustration


00:17:05.120 --> 00:17:06.549
of the fact that we've got so much


00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:09.110
archival data now not just on the


00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:11.029
universe at large but on the planets as


00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.510
well. Uh what they've done is they've


00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:18.069
basically surveyed uh um spaceorn


00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:23.029
photographs of Mars um by


00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.829
using data from various spacecraft. I'm


00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.390
sure they've used uh uh you know the the


00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:32.630
high-rise camera uh on on um the um one


00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.830
of the the Mars um orbiters. Mars Global


00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:37.909
Surveyor is an older orbiter that they


00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:42.310
used uh data from. So uh these uh


00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:45.270
spacecraft have got a huge wealth of of


00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:47.190
information about the planet surface


00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.430
which has not all been trolled through.


00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:50.710
Yeah. You know, we're still seeing


00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.110
images that uh that have probably not


00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:56.150
really been examined before. Uh and what


00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.950
they've done uh with these data is


00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.990
looked at uh a region called Hebris


00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.549
Valley, Hebris Valley, I guess you'd


00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.830
translate it as, uh which is in Mars's


00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:11.750
northwest. Uh so it's it's very much in


00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.990
the region of Mars that is less


00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.789
mountainous. Uh the the southern


00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.230
hemisphere of Mars, as we've talked


00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.549
about many times before, is mountainous.


00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:23.590
It's many covered in craters. the the


00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:25.190
northern hemisphere is much flatter,


00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.590
much many fewer craters and at a lower


00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:29.270
level. I think it's about 3 kilometers


00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:31.750
on average lower than the lower than the


00:18:31.760 --> 00:18:33.590
um southern hemisphere. That's something


00:18:33.600 --> 00:18:35.430
called the Martian dichotomy, by the


00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:37.909
way. Uh so uh what they've done is


00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:41.990
they've looked at uh what look like pits


00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.909
uh in in the um in the uh in the


00:18:45.919 --> 00:18:50.070
landscape. Uh, and that's not that


00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:52.310
unusual to find things like that because


00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:56.470
we know of many features that uh sort of


00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.070
speak of as being I mean the the they


00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:02.230
don't speak but they um you know what


00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.029
you see tells you that they are probably


00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.390
lava tubes. They're probably uh you know


00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.549
places which we have here on Earth as


00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.230
well. I think you and I have both walked


00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.350
through lava tubes in Hawaii. Yeah. um


00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:17.909
which are like long caves where the lava


00:19:17.919 --> 00:19:20.230
was flowing and gradually dried out and


00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:21.830
uh you're left with a you're left with a


00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:24.070
long cave. So these are quite different.


00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:27.190
The newly discovered ones uh are they're


00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.909
what are called skylights. So that tells


00:19:29.919 --> 00:19:32.150
you that they are openings in the roof


00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.150
of caverns. But the structure of them


00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.710
and the sort of features around them and


00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.029
the landscape that they're in uh


00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.350
suggests that these are not lava tubes


00:19:45.360 --> 00:19:47.590
because that's sedimentary rock that


00:19:47.600 --> 00:19:49.590
they're in. It's not it's not volcanic


00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:53.510
rock. Um so there's uh some of the data


00:19:53.520 --> 00:19:55.750
that they've looked at shows in the


00:19:55.760 --> 00:19:58.630
surrounding rock uh around these caves


00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.590
carbonates and sulfates. Uh and so


00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:05.590
that's uh basically a a water, you know,


00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:07.750
a water-driven rock or a water formed


00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:11.270
rock. Uh and um they're they're


00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:14.070
suggesting that what you're seeing is


00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:16.150
caves that are formed by water


00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.470
underneath the surface flowing and


00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.430
dissolving the bedrock. And that's what


00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:24.950
we on Earth call topography. uh hence


00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.029
casting your mind forward or backwards


00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:29.590
or whatever you said at the beginning


00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:32.870
Andrew. Um so it's a you know that that


00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.909
gives you a landscape that's punctuated


00:20:35.919 --> 00:20:39.510
often by giant sink holes


00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:41.750
>> uh which is a bit um bit topical at the


00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:42.870
moment because there's they've just got


00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:44.789
one in Melbourne that's probably to do


00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.270
with tunnels being dug. Uh it's a big


00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:49.590
sinkhole in a sports oval that has not


00:20:49.600 --> 00:20:53.029
become popular. It's 8 m across. Uh I


00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.470
don't think that's anything to do with


00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.950
water-soluble rock but uh probably more


00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.190
like might be tunneling. Don't know.


00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.590
Anyway, uh cast scenery generally on


00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:04.549
Earth uh is is this lime within


00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.630
limestone regions and there are places


00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.230
like that in the United Kingdom not very


00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.270
far from where I grew up


00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:10.950
>> and Mexico. They have


00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.070
>> Mexico indeed. Uh Slovenia has the most


00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:18.070
wonderful system of cast uh caves uh


00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:20.630
which I had the pleasure to go and


00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:22.710
explore with a colleague from University


00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.870
of Ljubljana a few years ago.


00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.110
Sensational stuff. If we find the same


00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:29.909
thing on Mars um that is going to be


00:21:29.919 --> 00:21:31.750
remarkable. But the point that the


00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:34.310
authors of this paper are making uh is


00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:37.510
that um that might provide a suitable


00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:40.070
habitat, suitable environment for


00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:42.230
microorganisms because you're protected


00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.310
from the radiation of the um uh from the


00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:49.110
sun, the particle and ultraviolet


00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:51.990
radiation. Uh and you know it could be


00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.029
that living organisms have found their


00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.510
uh a place where they could evolve and


00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.350
develop. So there might be evidence of


00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:01.750
microbial life there, which suggests


00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:03.990
that this part of Mars' surface might be


00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.549
a good place to send a rover. And I


00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.990
think that's the bottom line of their


00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:08.789
article.


00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.190
>> Yeah. U I've thought of a name for it.


00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:12.630
If they want to send a rover down, they


00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:16.950
could call it Spelunka.


00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.070
>> Call it what? Spelunk, isn't it? Isn't


00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:21.909
it called spelunking when you go down


00:22:21.919 --> 00:22:24.230
caves? And my Oh, well because of


00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.270
speliology.


00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:26.070
>> Yeah. Yeah,


00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:27.669
>> it's spelunking. They could call it


00:22:27.679 --> 00:22:28.230
spelanka.


00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.789
>> Oh, I like that. Yes.


00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.430
>> Ah, yes. Sorry, that went over my head.


00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.270
>> That's okay.


00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:36.870
>> Actually, I learned that word when we


00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.630
visited Hawaii and they told us how


00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.470
people, you know, go


00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.430
>> traveling down lava tubes. Not the


00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:45.669
tourist ones with the electric lights in


00:22:45.679 --> 00:22:47.590
them, but actual,


00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:49.750
>> you know, uncharted ones or ones that


00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:51.270
they know about that and and then they


00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:52.789
just like it's like mountain climbing,


00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.830
but the opposite.


00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:54.390
>> Yes.


00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.310
>> Yeah. that you can get into all kinds of


00:22:56.320 --> 00:22:56.710
trouble.


00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:57.830
>> Oh, yes, you can.


00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:00.149
>> Especially with underground uh river


00:23:00.159 --> 00:23:01.909
systems and things of that sort.


00:23:01.919 --> 00:23:02.310
>> Yeah.


00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:04.470
>> It doesn't float my boat, I have to say.


00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.789
Uh the idea of climbing into a cave with


00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:07.669
a


00:23:07.679 --> 00:23:11.270
>> with a not a snorkel, but a you know,


00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:13.830
basically breathing apparatus. No, it's


00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:16.310
been a couple of famous cases over the


00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:18.470
years of people who didn't come back


00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.870
because it they got themselves into


00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.029
difficult situations and uh and it is


00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.750
really dangerous thing to do. But um


00:23:25.760 --> 00:23:27.590
what what's another interesting thing


00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:29.990
about these caves is they're they're


00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.510
enormous.


00:23:31.520 --> 00:23:34.070
>> Yes, that's right. Uh they're not


00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.870
they're not small. Um and uh you know


00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:41.029
they they've it it's I guess again it to


00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:43.830
use a metaphor it speaks loudly of the


00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:46.950
of the volumes of water that must have


00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.870
have basically flowed down them uh in


00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.510
the in the millennia ago when they were


00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:55.909
being formed because I guess we're you


00:23:55.919 --> 00:23:59.029
know we're we're seeing evidence of of


00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.830
water-driven erosion and we know that


00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:03.909
perhaps three and a half to four billion


00:24:03.919 --> 00:24:07.190
years ago So Mars was wet but isn't now.


00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.870
So we're looking at very ancient water


00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.269
flows. But yes, it it says that there


00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.950
must have been a lot of water there. It


00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.830
is it's a remarkable piece of work. Um I


00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:18.390
haven't looked at the uh the original


00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.190
paper in great detail, but will do


00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.269
because uh it's such an interesting


00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:25.269
topic and they've done a lot of very


00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.470
careful work on this.


00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.190
>> Yeah. Um some of some of these uh cave


00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:32.149
openings are over 700 m wide. Yeah.


00:24:32.159 --> 00:24:34.710
>> Which is extraordinary. 350 m seems to


00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.110
be a common number, but some of them are


00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:39.750
um almost double that or over double


00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:40.149
that.


00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:42.950
>> It Yeah. So, it sort of makes you wonder


00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:44.390
why we haven't really seen these things


00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.310
before. I I suspect what uh has allowed


00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:50.710
um these uh authors to make the


00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.789
deductions that they have is because


00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.750
they've used many spacecraft um


00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:57.750
high-rise as I mentioned the high


00:24:57.760 --> 00:24:59.430
resolution camera on Mars Reconnaissance


00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.149
Orbiter and the Mars global surveyor.


00:25:02.159 --> 00:25:04.230
These these spacecraft have basically


00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.029
given given you different angles on the


00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:11.510
same features on the surface and um seen


00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:13.110
the surface under different lighting


00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:15.269
conditions. So when you when you take


00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.390
all that information uh together, that's


00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:20.230
when you can start looking effectively


00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:22.549
at three-dimensional views of what these


00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:24.710
what these dark spludges on the surface


00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.070
mean. They're dark because you're


00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:28.070
looking down into a into a cave. And


00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:29.990
yes, you're absolutely right with uh


00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.710
things that are, you know, hundreds of


00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.870
meters across. They're not small.


00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:39.510
>> Here's a question. How would they go as


00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:42.549
potential future human habitat?


00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.390
>> Uh I think that would be very much on


00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:50.470
the agenda, too. um just because you uh


00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:55.029
you really want to find if you can uh a


00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:57.190
region of Mars's surface that protects


00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:01.590
you from the environment which is very


00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.590
very inhospitable not just because the


00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:06.870
atmosphere is only 6% of the earth's


00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.269
atmospheric pressure but simply simply


00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:11.430
because of the radiation uh the fact


00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.190
that there's no magnetic field on Mars


00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.110
to protect you from that uh and that


00:26:15.120 --> 00:26:17.430
sort of that sort of thing, the the UV


00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.510
radiation from the sun. So, people have


00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:21.430
certainly suggested the lava tubes as


00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.830
future human habitats, but these might


00:26:23.840 --> 00:26:27.750
be even more appropriate um being, as we


00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:30.630
say, they're very large and uh and


00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.029
probably um you know, environments that


00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.350
would lend themselves to to perhaps


00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:37.430
building a structure inside


00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.230
>> uh that would allow you to work in


00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.230
normal atmospheric pressure. I suppose


00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.669
the question becomes one of whether or


00:26:45.679 --> 00:26:49.269
not that's a part of Mars where we, you


00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:51.269
know, there's an advantage being there.


00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:54.230
I mean, you it might be a great cave to


00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.870
put a dwelling in, but you


00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.710
>> if it's nowhere near anywhere you need


00:26:58.720 --> 00:26:59.909
to be,


00:26:59.919 --> 00:27:02.070
>> but but if it's also a place where there


00:27:02.080 --> 00:27:05.590
may have been microbial life there, uh


00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:07.190
it is going to be a place of interest.


00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:08.390
And of course, you'd want to make sure


00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.070
that you're not building your


00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:13.350
>> your in underground dwelling on some


00:27:13.360 --> 00:27:17.350
poor animals habitat even if the animal


00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:19.669
itself is long gone. And again that


00:27:19.679 --> 00:27:21.510
comes back to some of the eth ethical


00:27:21.520 --> 00:27:23.430
considerations in regard to the


00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.029
exploration of Mars.


00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.269
>> Yes. Yes. Well, we maybe we should talk


00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.710
to Elon Musk about um habitats on Mars


00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.230
and


00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:33.990
human ethics.


00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.590
>> I'm not I'm not going to buy into that


00:27:35.600 --> 00:27:37.669
one.


00:27:37.679 --> 00:27:39.110
>> I'm going to get you one day.


00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:39.510
>> Yeah.


00:27:39.520 --> 00:27:41.430
>> Oh, yes. It's a great story. If you want


00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.029
to read about it, you can do that at the


00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:45.990
daily galaxy.com website or you can read


00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.230
the paper in the astrophysical journal


00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.310
letters. This is Spacenuts. Andrew


00:27:50.320 --> 00:27:54.230
Dunley here with Professor Fred Watson.


00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.830
Let's take a break from the show to tell


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00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.310
>> G and I feel


00:29:20.320 --> 00:29:21.510
>> space nuts.


00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:23.909
>> Our final story, Fred, takes us to


00:29:23.919 --> 00:29:27.430
another planet, um, which is a little


00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.510
unusual. We've spoken about rogue


00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:33.029
planets before, but now we've got, uh, I


00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.029
believe observations of a rogue planet.


00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:36.389
Now, these things are hard to spot


00:29:36.399 --> 00:29:38.230
because they don't orbit a star. They're


00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:39.830
just floating out there like a space


00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:41.830
station


00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:44.950
um and turning up who knows where, but


00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.789
um apparently they've they've observed


00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:50.710
one. Uh yes, in a in a new way. uh and


00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.430
that's cuz I think that these things are


00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.590
relatively common place in terms of


00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:59.909
being found um on particularly on


00:29:59.919 --> 00:30:02.870
surveys looking at what's called


00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.110
gravitational microlensing


00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:06.870
uh because that's really the only way to


00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:09.590
find them because exactly as you've said


00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:11.669
they are not illuminated by a parent


00:30:11.679 --> 00:30:14.310
star. I always think rogue planet is a


00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:17.110
slightly um you know it's it's an


00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:19.269
uncomplentary name. I think orphan


00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:21.350
planet's a nicer one because we think


00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:22.870
some of these are orphans in the sense


00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.110
that they've been booted out of their um


00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.750
parent solar system by gravitational


00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:30.789
interactions. But as you say, they are


00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:32.389
dark. They're not illuminated by their


00:30:32.399 --> 00:30:35.669
parent star. They do um have very low


00:30:35.679 --> 00:30:37.750
levels of infrared radiation because


00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:40.710
there are as with as with the earth and


00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:42.310
and the planets of the solar system,


00:30:42.320 --> 00:30:43.990
there are sort of low-level nuclear


00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.310
processes going on inside. That means


00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:48.870
the planet is radiating its own heat to


00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.190
some extent. Uh I think if I remember


00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:53.830
rightly Jupiter radiates 1.8 times as


00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:56.230
much uh energy as it receives from the


00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.070
sun. I think that's the figure uh


00:30:58.080 --> 00:30:59.909
because of the nuclear processes in its


00:30:59.919 --> 00:31:01.669
interior. So that would be true of a


00:31:01.679 --> 00:31:03.110
rogue planet as well. So if you got


00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:05.909
really sensitive infrared equipment uh


00:31:05.919 --> 00:31:08.230
in fact things like the James Web Space


00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.110
Telescope would do the trick uh then you


00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:13.669
can find it. But the uh the sort of


00:31:13.679 --> 00:31:16.389
standard method of finding these things


00:31:16.399 --> 00:31:18.870
is by as I said gravitational microl


00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.269
lensing. What does that mean? It means


00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:25.110
that you take repeated images of a patch


00:31:25.120 --> 00:31:28.230
of sky that has stars in it and most of


00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.070
the sky has stars in it when you look


00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:32.149
through big telescopes. So you take


00:31:32.159 --> 00:31:35.590
repeated images of the same patch of sky


00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:38.710
and look for changes in the brightness


00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:40.789
of the stars. Now, sometimes those


00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.470
changes are because the stars themselves


00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.029
are variable. Uh they're vary in their


00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:46.789
light output. Sometimes there are


00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.310
changes because it's not a star. It's


00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:50.230
actually an asteroid. So, it means it's


00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.549
moving in your field of view. But one of


00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.350
the potential changes and you can spot


00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:57.350
it because the what we call the light


00:31:57.360 --> 00:31:59.269
curve, the way the light behaves with


00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.310
time has a very characteristic shape.


00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:06.470
That is when you get uh something dark


00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.909
uh or less bright than the star behind


00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:13.029
it. It passes in front of a star and


00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.350
because of Einstein's general theory of


00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:17.750
relativity, we know the gravity of that


00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:20.149
dark object will warp the space around


00:32:20.159 --> 00:32:22.549
it and behave like a lens. And the


00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.230
effect of this lens passing in front of


00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:26.470
the star is to give you this light curve


00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.269
which has got a really strong peak uh


00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.750
and and side lobes. It's the shape is


00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:34.470
very characteristic. So various


00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:36.070
planetary systems have been discovered


00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:37.669
that way. You see a star going past and


00:32:37.679 --> 00:32:39.750
that has a different shape and then a


00:32:39.760 --> 00:32:41.669
planet goes past and that's got this


00:32:41.679 --> 00:32:44.389
little pointy light curve shape. Uh and


00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:46.230
you know you've found a a planet around


00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:48.950
a star. Um but if you just get the


00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.750
pointy light curve the small one then


00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:54.710
that's a planet on its own basically. Uh


00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.029
which is when we call it a rogue planet.


00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:01.909
So this uh observation is of uh an a


00:33:01.919 --> 00:33:03.509
rogue planet and it's been made in


00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.230
exactly that way uh by gravitational


00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.710
microl lensing but uh it's been observed


00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.750
from both earth and space. That's the


00:33:13.760 --> 00:33:17.190
thing. These are simultaneous earth and


00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.149
space um measurements and uh that allows


00:33:22.159 --> 00:33:26.710
you to uh check the timing very


00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.430
accurately of the gravitational


00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.909
microlensing. Uh the space telescope was


00:33:31.919 --> 00:33:33.750
the GIA space telescope which has been


00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:36.149
surveying stars for the last 15 years or


00:33:36.159 --> 00:33:38.789
so I think. Um, and because you've got


00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.149
two observations from places that are


00:33:42.159 --> 00:33:46.149
separated uh in space, that allows you


00:33:46.159 --> 00:33:48.310
to say a little bit more about the


00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:50.470
object. Because the trick with these


00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.470
things is you only see this thing once.


00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:54.230
You see a gravitational microlensing


00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.430
peak and then it's gone. Uh, and all


00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:59.350
your information is in the shape of that


00:33:59.360 --> 00:34:01.110
light curve. But if you got two light


00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:02.549
curves from two different vantage


00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:04.789
points, you can get a little bit more.


00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.830
And so uh what uh the scientists who did


00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:10.950
this work have said is that that enabled


00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.109
them for the first time to work out the


00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.510
mass of the microl lensing planet which


00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:18.629
is about 22 times the mass of Jupiter


00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:21.190
and to say where it is. Uh and it's


00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:24.950
something like 10,000 light years uh


00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.589
from the center of our galaxy. I I


00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.710
calculated 9,780 but no that's okay.


00:34:30.720 --> 00:34:33.190
Just round it up.


00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:36.230
>> 10,000. Yeah, it's near enough.


00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:38.389
>> 9,780. Well done.


00:34:38.399 --> 00:34:41.750
>> Yes. Well, 3 3,000 par six is from the


00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:43.510
center of the Milky Way galaxy. And


00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:45.190
people are saying, well, how close does


00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:46.950
that put it to us? Well, we're what?


00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.950
We're about 8,000.


00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.950
>> Uh uh where yes, something like 25,000


00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.589
light years. Yeah. Away. So, yes, you're


00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:56.869
right. Two and a half times further


00:34:56.879 --> 00:34:58.150
away.


00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:00.790
>> Um so, yeah, um an interesting set of


00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:03.349
observations, a nice piece of research.


00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:05.349
uh because um and and I guess a lot of


00:35:05.359 --> 00:35:07.349
it is serendipitous. They they're


00:35:07.359 --> 00:35:08.790
fortunate that Guyia happened to be


00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.109
looking at the same bit of sky at the


00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:12.950
same time. I'm not sure whether this was


00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.430
intentional, whether this work was can


00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.109
you give us time on the GIA spacecraft


00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:19.349
to look at a particular patch of sky


00:35:19.359 --> 00:35:20.630
because we're going to look at it at the


00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:22.550
same time uh with a groundbased


00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:24.230
telescope or whether it was a


00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:26.710
serendipitous observation. I need to


00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:27.990
follow up on that tool.


00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.390
>> Yes. Yes. Uh but uh it's very


00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.510
interesting um discovery, the fact that


00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:35.030
it came from two sources.


00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:35.510
>> Yeah.


00:35:35.520 --> 00:35:38.790
>> And so uh yeah, and uh there'll be more


00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.230
of these to be found. And with all the


00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:41.910
new telescopes that are getting ready to


00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:43.030
be


00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:45.349
>> um commissioned, we'll say


00:35:45.359 --> 00:35:47.990
>> um there's probably so much more ready


00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.310
to be discovered that's just lurking out


00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:51.990
there waiting for the right equipment to


00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:52.870
point at it.


00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.870
>> Yep, that's quite right. stuff that we


00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.430
didn't even know existed until not that


00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:58.470
long ago.


00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.630
>> Yeah. And I I suppose that's a that's a


00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:02.069
question for you, Fred, we might as well


00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.069
ask. Um, you know, in recent years, have


00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.230
we seen a real escalation in the number


00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:10.630
of new discoveries because of of


00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:12.550
technology that's improved?


00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:14.710
>> Absolutely. You've only to think of the


00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:17.670
the web telescope itself. uh you know


00:36:17.680 --> 00:36:19.910
we've got almost one story every day


00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.910
coming out from that


00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:27.030
>> uh of of real significance. Um so yes


00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:31.030
the obviously the technology absolutely


00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:34.790
uh progressively has revolutionized


00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.829
astronomy. It's it's been the same for


00:36:37.839 --> 00:36:41.190
centuries really. Uh, and the one I'm


00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:42.710
thinking of that perhaps did more than


00:36:42.720 --> 00:36:45.190
any other in terms of the the the giant


00:36:45.200 --> 00:36:47.589
leap that it made was photography when


00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:48.870
photography could be applied to


00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.030
astronomy towards the end of the 19th


00:36:51.040 --> 00:36:52.950
century. And you were suddenly in a


00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.310
regime where you could you could


00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:55.750
actually make


00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.990
>> qualitative measurements uh of things


00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.150
that people had only really been able to


00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:02.470
look at by eye and you could also see


00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:04.630
things that were much much fainter


00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:07.270
>> than the eye would reveal. So that was


00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.670
one of the biggest leaps. Then uh 100


00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:11.430
years later effectively we did the same


00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:13.910
thing but electronically with the charge


00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:15.670
couple devices and things like that that


00:37:15.680 --> 00:37:18.230
are maybe 20 times more sensitive than a


00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:20.069
photographic plate. So you suddenly got


00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.150
another leap and then bigger and bigger


00:37:22.160 --> 00:37:25.030
telescopes. Yeah, it's a theme that has


00:37:25.040 --> 00:37:27.829
been close to my heart because my career


00:37:27.839 --> 00:37:30.950
is now so long that I've seen a lot of


00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:35.109
these things firsthand. You know, I was


00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:36.790
using photographic plates when I


00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:38.710
started. That was the state-of-the-art,


00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:40.950
the technology. I remember when I was at


00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.270
school reading about some um um I was


00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.430
going to say eccentric, maybe that's the


00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:49.270
word, French astronomer who was trying


00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.990
to make electronic images of the sky.


00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.990
And I thought that's fantastic. That is


00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.910
superb. I want to do that kind of thing.


00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.550
But it was still very experimental. Now


00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:00.150
>> just just, you know, press a button and


00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:00.790
there it is.


00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:01.109
>> Yeah.


00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:02.950
>> Although you're still using photographic


00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:04.470
plates, you really need to move on,


00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:08.710
Fred. Um, uh, there are some people who


00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:09.109
do.


00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.390
>> I know. I know there are.


00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:11.510
>> It's not me.


00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:13.190
>> Yeah. Actually, retro is in at the


00:38:13.200 --> 00:38:14.950
moment. People, um, my my


00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:17.750
daughter-in-law got a record player for


00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:18.710
Christmas. So,


00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:21.510
>> yeah. Well, my uh my turntable's right


00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:21.829
there.


00:38:21.839 --> 00:38:23.190
>> Yeah, I've got one, too. Although, it's


00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:25.270
in a box in a cupboard in a


00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:26.630
>> I don't know where it is. It's somewhere


00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:29.750
around here. But, uh, I can plug it into


00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.910
a computer, so I can digitize anything.


00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:32.710
>> Very good.


00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:33.109
>> Yeah.


00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.829
>> Yeah. It's amazing. Um, so if you would


00:38:35.839 --> 00:38:38.230
like to read up on the rogue planet uh


00:38:38.240 --> 00:38:39.910
story and how they discovered it, you


00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.829
can do that at spaceaily.com.


00:38:43.839 --> 00:38:45.750
>> Fred, that brings us to the end of our


00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.310
first program back for the year.


00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.910
>> Well, that's gone quickly, hasn't it?


00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.470
>> Sure has. Yeah, it's flashing through


00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:53.030
them.


00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:55.270
>> Yeah. No, that's great. Um, and welcome


00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:57.670
to 2026. Who knows what we're going to


00:38:57.680 --> 00:39:00.470
see in 2026. Lots of astronomy events.


00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:01.910
We might talk about that in the next


00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.349
episodes. what what's coming up for


00:39:03.359 --> 00:39:05.510
2026.


00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:07.030
>> You can find plenty of websites where


00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:10.630
it'll tell you. Uh but um I think we're


00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:13.270
in for an exciting year with the you


00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.190
know the VC Ruben telescope coming


00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:18.069
online and various other pieces of kit


00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:19.990
which we're going to find results from.


00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.910
It's going to be very exciting.


00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:23.589
>> Absolutely. All right. Thanks Fred.


00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:24.790
We'll catch you next time.


00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.990
>> I hope so. Uh Professor Fred Watson,


00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.310
astronomer at large joining us on Space


00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:31.829
Nuts. And thanks to Hugh in the studio


00:39:31.839 --> 00:39:34.150
who couldn't be with us today because uh


00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:36.310
well he indulged in way too much


00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:39.750
Christmas cake and and nuts and well you


00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:41.910
know the stuff. Anyway, um apparently


00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:43.829
he's seeing someone named Jenny Craig


00:39:43.839 --> 00:39:46.710
about it. Uh and


00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:48.950
and from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for


00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.030
your company. We'll see you again soon


00:39:51.040 --> 00:39:53.349
on the very next episode of Space Nuts.


00:39:53.359 --> 00:39:54.310
Bye-bye.


00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.630
>> Space Nuts. You've been listening to the


00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:59.670
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00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:02.630
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