Exoplanet Collisions, Cosmic Snowball Fights & Australia’s Astronomical Future | Space Nuts:...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thank you again for joining


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us. This is Space Nuts, where we talk


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astronomy and space science. My name is


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Andrew Dunley and we have got a lot to


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talk about as always. Uh this is a


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really interesting story to start us


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off. Two exoplanets have collided.


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Apparently, it happened on the corner of


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George Street and Martin Place in


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Sydney. Uh and they weren't insured. Uh


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we've got more interesting data from


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Dart. See what I did there? and uh a


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paper looking at Australia's telescopic


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science future with a strategic


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partnership about to end. What does it


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all mean? We will tell you on this


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episode of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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And he's back again to throw furniture


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at us. No, to furnish us with his


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knowledge. It's Professor Fred Watson,


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astronomer at large. Hello, Fred.


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>> You You're on fire today, Andrew.


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>> I don't know what to call it. Maybe not


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on fire.


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>> It's turned in me. It's cost me my


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voice. Having a coughing fit. Excuse me.


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Yes. Um, I am going to furnish you with


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any gems of information that I can drag


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up from wherever they happen to be


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lurking. Very good. I appreciate it.


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Otherwise, it would be very boring show.


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>> Yes.


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>> Yeah. Um, how are things? Everything


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good down in your neck of the woods?


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>> Yeah. Not doing too badly. The uh the uh


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uh job that I do, which is um uh a sort


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of vague job of as a professor of


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astronomy, is getting bit busier and


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busier. A lot going on. Um, and we'll


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talk about some of that actually in in


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this uh week's episode. But um, yes, all


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good so far.


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>> Excellent


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>> as far as it goes.


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>> All right.


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>> Actually, I can tell you I might I might


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have mentioned this to you last week.


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Um, over the weekend I was down in CRA


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uh because I was narrating uh a some


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music about the sky given by a classical


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ensemble called the Griffin Ensemble who


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I've worked with before. They uh they uh


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are a a sort of eightpiece alto together


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uh classical music ensemble. They're


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very popular in Canbor and they do a


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work uh which was written by an Estonian


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composer who's now no longer with us.


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Uh both the leader of the ensemble and I


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have met that guy um a long time ago. uh


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but he's he wrote a big piece called


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Southern Sky about the southern


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hemisphere constellations and uh they


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were playing excerpts from that in the


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two concerts that we gave on Sunday and


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my job is to say a little bit about not


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the constellations but sort of what they


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mean what what what astronomy what's


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going on in astronomy just to add a


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little bit of uh uh perhaps a little bit


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of structure to the program and uh both


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there were two sellout concerts we had


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full house each time and it all seemed


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go very well.


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>> Yeah. Fantastic. Gee, that's different,


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isn't it?


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>> Yeah. Yeah. It's um some it's very it's


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very close to my heart because uh


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classical music's always been my thing


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and uh it uh it's really nice to be able


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to participate in it at that kind of


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level.


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>> Yeah. Wow.


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>> These are top top class musicians


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>> and and you and you say they're very


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popular in Canberra.


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>> Yeah. Yep.


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>> That's that's difficult to do to be


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popular in Canra.


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>> Yeah, I know. We did take um one one


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when we started doing this. The very


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first time we did it, it was in the


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ruins of one of the telescope domes at


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Mount Stromlo after the fire burned down


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few yeah years earlier and it was really


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what an atmosphere. It was just in this


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circular building which was a dome once


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with the peers of the telescope. The


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telescope had gone it was burnt but the


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concrete remained and quite uh quite


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spectacular and that was the first time


00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:05.750
we did it. We've probably done it 20


00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:08.869
times since. It was uh featured on ABC


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Classics a few years ago as well, so we


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can kind of probably find it somewhere.


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>> Yeah, it's done.


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>> Wow, what a venue, too. And you just had


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to tear away all the police tape so you


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could get in. So, yeah, that would


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>> Yeah,


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>> shall we get to it?


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>> Yeah, let's get to it. Sorry to to


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>> Oh, no. No, it was really interesting.


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Oh. Um, yeah, actually in our next


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episode we're going to hear from


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somebody else who does something


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completely different because we asked


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the question about um, yeah, tell us


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more about your job and they did. So,


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we'll look forward to that. That'll be


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fun.


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>> That's really interesting as well.


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>> It is. Um, but first, let's talk about


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um this this fascinating discovery uh,


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which didn't happen happen near us


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thankfully. Uh, two exoplanets have been


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witnessed colliding. Uh, it wasn't a car


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crash, but um, probably a little bit


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worse in the scheme of things. Pretty


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spectacular, I would imagine, if you


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were uh, you know, at a ringside seat


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for that on an orbit side seat.


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>> Um, yeah, this is uh, work that's come


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from uh, University of Washington


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>> uh, in the US. It is uh a a piece of uh


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research


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concentrating on a star which is 11,000


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lighty years away. It's not nearby. This


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is you know this is kind of the well


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it's well well well in the depths of the


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galaxy compared with where we are. Um


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and it's a I might tell you the name of


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the star because we should always give


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our stars names. It's called Gaia 20


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EHK. Uh and it's a bog standard main


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sequence as we call them star a lot like


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the sun uh and is like the sun um


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constant in its light output. So this


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thing's been monitored since 2016


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uh beg pardon since before 2016. Um it


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the Gaia spacecraft is a is a what's


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called an astrometric spacecraft. It


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measures the positions of objects in


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space very accurately. Uh but it also


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measures their brightness. And um it's


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been going now for oh gosh don't know


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how when it went into orbit. I should


00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:24.950
check that. Uh but anyway Gaia 20 ehk


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was one of the stars that was monitored


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by it. U and then in 2016 uh things


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started happening. Uh and what basically


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happened was something that we expect


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when we have a planet in orbit around


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another star. Uh you get uh a dip in


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brightness. That's how you know we've


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talked about this many many times on


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space notes. It's how you often how you


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discover that stars have planets going


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around them because the planet passes in


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front of the star. it drops the


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brightness of the star very slightly and


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you can measure that and if it does it


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again of months or weeks or days


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sometimes later then you you can


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identify it as being due to a planet


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going round this star and so we happen


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to be looking along the plane of the


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orbit of the planet that's that's the


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trick that's the statistical bit but it


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turns out you can you know there's still


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a lot that you can discover doing that


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anyway 2016 it had three dips in


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brightness uh over a um matter of years.


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But then in 2021, and I love the the um


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the description by the lead researcher


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on this work, it went completely


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bonkers.


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Um um a quote says, "I can't emphasize


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enough that stars like our son don't do


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that." So when we saw this one, we were


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like, "Hello, what's going on here?" And


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by bunkers, he meant that um there were


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many, many dips. it it just sort of it


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wasn't um uh it wasn't a a a steady slow


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dip and then a coming back to


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brightness. It was almost like a


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flickering


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>> uh of the light of the star. And what


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they assumed from that, the research


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team, was that this is probably the


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result of a lot of rock and dust passing


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in front of the star as it goes around


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in orbit. Meanwhile, the the sort of


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steady dips have disappeared and all


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you've got is this this almost


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flickering. And so what this is being


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interpreted as is that two planets which


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caused the original dips uh in orbit


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around Gaia 28 AHK collided. Uh and we


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have caught that you know by these


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observations with the GIA spacecraft. Uh


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so those um those planets are no more.


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But what we've got is a cloud of large


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chunks probably of debris which is


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causing the the flickering. And the the


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real the bit of this that I really like


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is that they didn't just say, "Oh, well


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that's that's the end of that. That's we


00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.350
we know that that's what's happened."


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What they did was they also observed


00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:16.310
this star in infrared radiation. They


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used a a different telescope um to to


00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:25.269
observe it with infrared. And uh let me


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quote uh again from the um lead author.


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The infrared light curve uh which is the


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the way the light varies over time. The


00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.710
infrared light curve was the complete


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opposite of the visible light. As the


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visible light began to flicker and dim,


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the infrared light spiked, which could


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mean that the material blocking the star


00:09:46.160 --> 00:09:47.190
is hot.


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>> So hot that it's glowing in the


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infrared.


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>> Um, and that's the kind of the smoking


00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:54.630
gun because if if you're looking at the


00:09:54.640 --> 00:09:56.630
debris of a collision, this is a very


00:09:56.640 --> 00:10:00.070
violent event. Uh, what you would expect


00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.470
is for that debris to be hot, and it is


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hot in the infrared. uh sorry it's


00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.509
visible in the infrared revealing that


00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:10.949
it is actually hot. So what um the way


00:10:10.959 --> 00:10:13.910
they're uh interpreting this and another


00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:17.829
quote from the lead author uh Andy, let


00:10:17.839 --> 00:10:20.550
me try and pronounce his name or


00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:22.870
pronounce their name. I should say it's


00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:24.389
Zanidaris.


00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.230
Sanidaris. Hope that's all right.


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>> Close enough.


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>> Uh yeah.


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Um it uh the quote is that could be


00:10:31.839 --> 00:10:34.069
caused by the two planets spiraling


00:10:34.079 --> 00:10:36.630
closer and closer to each other. At


00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:38.310
first they had a series of grazing


00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.230
impacts which would wouldn't produce a


00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:42.230
lot of infrared energy. Then they had


00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.550
their big catastrophic collision and the


00:10:44.560 --> 00:10:48.949
infrared really ramped up. And so um the


00:10:48.959 --> 00:10:51.910
link that these researchers are drawing


00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:54.949
uh with our own solar system are I think


00:10:54.959 --> 00:10:56.790
um in many ways quite profound because


00:10:56.800 --> 00:10:58.949
what we might be seeing there is a


00:10:58.959 --> 00:11:01.030
similar event to the one in which the


00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:04.310
moon was created. Um um again something


00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:06.230
we've talked about a lot the fact that


00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.710
perhaps 4.5 billion years ago very early


00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.829
in the history of the solar system uh an


00:11:11.839 --> 00:11:14.790
object about the size of Mars uh which


00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:18.150
we call thea collided with the the young


00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:22.069
earth and lifted clouds of debris uh


00:11:22.079 --> 00:11:24.150
which eventually coalesed to form the


00:11:24.160 --> 00:11:28.069
moon. So that is uh you know if we've


00:11:28.079 --> 00:11:29.670
seen something like that actually


00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:31.750
happening uh as we seem to have done


00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:35.190
with uh this particular star maybe uh


00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:38.790
there is an exomoon on the way uh being


00:11:38.800 --> 00:11:41.350
formed as we speak as a result of these


00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:41.829
collisions.


00:11:41.839 --> 00:11:45.910
>> Of course 11,000 years have passed since


00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:46.949
the event.


00:11:46.959 --> 00:11:47.910
>> Yes, that's right.


00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:50.870
>> We're only seeing it now but uh yeah


00:11:50.880 --> 00:11:53.269
it's it's already 11,000 years since


00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:54.710
that happened.


00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.230
Still can't get my head around that


00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.670
stuff. But uh it's Yeah. So, who knows


00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:01.269
what's going on there. It could create a


00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.670
moon. It could create a a much bigger


00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:05.590
planet. It could just become an asteroid


00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.990
belt. You just don't know, do you?


00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.509
>> That's right. That all of those are


00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.430
possibilities. Unfortunately, it'll


00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.350
probably take, as they say, it'll take a


00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.110
few million years for the all this to


00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:15.750
settle down.


00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:16.230
>> Yeah.


00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.030
>> Uh to let us see kind of, you know, what


00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:21.350
what actually has happened. So in a few


00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:22.949
million years time, Gaia will probably


00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:24.470
be defunct by then, but we might be


00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.230
observing it by different means.


00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:27.829
>> And I looked that up. It was launched in


00:12:27.839 --> 00:12:30.470
2013 and got got down to business in


00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.150
2014. So


00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:34.470
>> So yeah. So So that's a couple of years


00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:36.310
of observing this star when it did


00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:38.310
nothing and then suddenly you started


00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.310
seeing these dips. Yes. Went weird.


00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.990
>> Very strange. Another interesting


00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:47.030
coincidence about GIA 20HK is that um


00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:49.030
apparently


00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:51.910
that collision happened 93 million miles


00:12:51.920 --> 00:12:54.949
from the star which is pretty much the


00:12:54.959 --> 00:12:57.670
same distance we are from our star.


00:12:57.680 --> 00:12:59.430
>> 150 million kilometers. That's correct.


00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:02.629
Yeah. So it's um that's right. Uh which


00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:04.629
I I thought was an interesting fact as


00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:08.870
well just as a coincidence. Um, but what


00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:10.470
I guess what that means is because it is


00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.509
a sunlike star and you've got this going


00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.629
on 150 mill million kilometers away from


00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.949
it the same distance as we are from the


00:13:18.959 --> 00:13:22.069
sun uh it might what's happening there


00:13:22.079 --> 00:13:24.470
might almost mimic what has happened


00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.509
here uh in our solar system that yes you


00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.430
might end up with a earthlike planet and


00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.389
a and a moon um


00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.790
>> in a few million years time. Well, we'll


00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:37.910
we'll uh we'll get back to that then, I


00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:38.389
suppose.


00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.150
>> Yes, we we will we'll we'll return to


00:13:40.160 --> 00:13:42.230
that story then. There may be more news.


00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:44.790
I mean, it's clearly this is uh it's a


00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:46.790
big story in the astronomy world. It's


00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:49.030
uh such a rare event to see something


00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:50.470
like that. I think there will be more


00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:51.829
studies and we might have more


00:13:51.839 --> 00:13:53.829
information coming out of it, not in a


00:13:53.839 --> 00:13:55.350
million years, but maybe within the next


00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:55.829
few months.


00:13:55.839 --> 00:13:57.590
>> You never know. All right. Uh if you'd


00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.030
like to read about it, it's on the


00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:01.590
space.com website, but you can also read


00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.829
the entire paper, which will take you a


00:14:03.839 --> 00:14:07.350
couple of billion years uh at um it's in


00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.069
astrophysical journal letters. This is


00:14:10.079 --> 00:14:11.910
Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and


00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:14.949
Professor Fred Watson.


00:14:14.959 --> 00:14:16.470
Let's take a break from the show to tell


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00:15:48.079 --> 00:15:49.910
>> Hey, that's one of the better sims.


00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:50.949
Believe me,


00:15:50.959 --> 00:15:52.550
>> we've had a couple of cardiac arrests


00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:53.749
down here, too, peeps.


00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.910
>> There weren't any time for that up here.


00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:58.629
>> Space nuts.


00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.230
Now, it was only a week ago, maybe two,


00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.949
where we talked about some interesting


00:16:04.959 --> 00:16:08.310
data that came out of the Dart mission,


00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.310
that uh impact on a little moon orbiting


00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:16.949
a uh an asteroid. Uh, and it's the gift


00:16:16.959 --> 00:16:18.629
that keeps on giving, Fred, this


00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.310
particular mission, because there is


00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.550
even more information that's come out.


00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:24.310
And this this is really strange, this


00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.150
one. And I I would not have considered


00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:28.870
this, but there it is in black and


00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:30.629
white.


00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.470
>> Purple and white as I'm seeing it as


00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.389
well. Could be purple and white.


00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.389
>> Purple and white. Yes. Uh which is the


00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.949
color coding of the image that um is the


00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:41.430
story that we're talking about. So yes,


00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.069
Dart uh the the double asteroid


00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:46.389
redirection test. Very successful


00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.069
collision of a little impactor, 600 kgs.


00:16:50.079 --> 00:16:52.389
I think you corrected me on last time we


00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.590
spoke about it. Uh and uh that actually


00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.470
shifted the orbit of Demorphus, a little


00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.389
moon 170 m across around its parent


00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.909
asteroid um Ditimos, which I think is


00:17:05.919 --> 00:17:09.669
about 700 m across. Uh and it changed


00:17:09.679 --> 00:17:11.909
its orbit by 13 minutes, the orbital


00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:14.230
period. So a successful uh really


00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.110
successful mission. Um, we spoke last


00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:18.710
week about the fact that not only had


00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.110
that changed the impact, not only had


00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:23.750
the impact changed the orbit of uh,


00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:26.069
Demorphus around Ditimos, it had also


00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.829
changed the orbit of both of them around


00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.870
the sun by a tiny tiny amount, but


00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.630
enough to be significant and enough to


00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.029
mean that maybe there is hope that one


00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.350
day down the track if we really were


00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:39.350
faced with uh, the prospect of an


00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:40.870
asteroid impacting the Earth, there


00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.390
might be there might be things we could


00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.990
do. uh but the latest comes from some


00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.230
research university of uh I think it's


00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.310
Johns Hopkins University and University


00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:54.549
of Maryland uh and what they've done is


00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.590
they've looked very closely at the


00:17:57.600 --> 00:18:03.110
images of uh Demorphus the little moon


00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:05.190
uh which of course was captured by the


00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.470
onboard camera on Dart getting bigger


00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.390
very rapidly as uh as as Dart h hurtled


00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.150
toward at what was it six kilometers/s


00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.070
uh for the impact and the last few


00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:19.750
images of that of course are very very


00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:21.750
detailed and so what these scientists


00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:25.909
have done is they've said we wonder if


00:18:25.919 --> 00:18:28.070
uh and I should explain what d what the


00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:30.070
what Dimmos looks like it's it's a


00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:32.150
what's called a rubber pile it just


00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.710
looks like a pile of dirt with boulders


00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:36.950
all over it some of them quite big uh


00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.510
with no real structure to it just a a


00:18:39.520 --> 00:18:41.669
potato-shaped object with lots of


00:18:41.679 --> 00:18:44.710
boulders on and and clearly dirt and


00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.430
debris at very small scales. So what


00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.390
they wondered was whether there was any


00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.990
structure that would be visible uh sort


00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.150
of underlying structure in the shape of


00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:57.350
that moon


00:18:57.360 --> 00:18:59.110
>> and


00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:02.150
uh some really neat image processing.


00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:06.549
They've taken away the shadows of


00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.510
boulders and taken away the images of


00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:11.190
boulders. They had done a sort of search


00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.750
algorithm for the things that kind of


00:19:13.760 --> 00:19:17.029
would hide any any underlying structure.


00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.590
Uh and sure enough when they did that uh


00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:25.669
they revealed a whole set of streaks uh


00:19:25.679 --> 00:19:29.190
on the surface um quite you know marked


00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:33.669
streaks um many many meters long uh all


00:19:33.679 --> 00:19:37.110
of which seem to um basically originate


00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:39.270
from one point


00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:42.789
on the uh on the on this moon's surface


00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.590
which as I understand it is the point


00:19:45.600 --> 00:19:47.909
that corresponds to the direction to the


00:19:47.919 --> 00:19:51.830
parent asteroid uh Ditimos


00:19:51.840 --> 00:19:54.150
uh because it's tidily locked. Andrew,


00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.710
the um Demorphos always keeps the same


00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:58.870
face towards Diddimos. That's the


00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.549
>> normal situation with something like


00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.190
that. And what they're interpreting this


00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.190
as being about is m material being


00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.270
transferred from uh from Ditimos to


00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:13.510
Demorphus and sort of landing with a


00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:16.470
splat on the surface of Demorphus and


00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.830
causing these streaks to basically uh


00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:23.590
emanate from the the point of impact. Uh


00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:25.990
what they are saying is that it's a


00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.710
cosmic snowball fight. That's Scitec


00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:33.110
Daly's words. Um, and so it it it is


00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:36.230
very very intriguing. And I they've done


00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:37.990
experiments to show that yes, if you


00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.710
splat cosmic snowballs on a surface, you


00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:45.029
get these streaks. Uh, but um the the


00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:49.350
the mechanism for this is


00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:52.310
uh something that they've hypothesized,


00:20:52.320 --> 00:20:55.669
but it probably is the mechanism for


00:20:55.679 --> 00:20:59.190
what's happening. And it's um relies on


00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.590
the Yorp effect


00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:03.270
uh which I have heard of before but I


00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:04.870
can never remember what it stands for.


00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.029
And the reason for that is that it's


00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.430
four names. Yakovski, O'Keefe, Red


00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.110
Seiski,


00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:14.950
and Paddock


00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.590
Yo RP. The initials of those I'm not


00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:19.990
going to try and attempt it again. But


00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.630
the York effect is where uh if you've


00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.270
got an asteroid, small asteroid,


00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:29.830
sunlight that's falling on it, the sun's


00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:33.430
radiation actually increases its


00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.110
rotation rate. It sort of spins it up.


00:21:37.120 --> 00:21:38.630
>> And


00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.350
as that happens, if you've got loose


00:21:41.360 --> 00:21:45.990
material uh near the equator, it can


00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.110
actually be flung off. Um that was one


00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:51.270
of the early hypotheses for how the moon


00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:54.470
was formed that uh the earth when it was


00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.110
born was rotating so quickly that


00:21:57.120 --> 00:21:59.270
centrifugal force lifted stuff off its


00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:01.750
equator which eventually coalesed to


00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:05.350
form the moon. It was um uh that theory


00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:11.029
was due to the son of the inventor of


00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.590
evolution.


00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:15.430
Uh and I can't remember the son's name


00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.830
never mind. Uh it's so a couple of


00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.310
famous famous people. Charles Darwin's


00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:22.310
son, I've forgotten his name. Charles


00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:24.710
Darwin's son was an astrophysicist or an


00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.350
astronomer and he he uh suggested that


00:22:27.360 --> 00:22:29.909
was the way the moon had originated. Uh


00:22:29.919 --> 00:22:31.590
and and we now know it's not that the


00:22:31.600 --> 00:22:33.669
the earth never rotated fast enough to


00:22:33.679 --> 00:22:37.190
do that. But Dinimos might have rotated


00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.789
fast enough to release material from its


00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.830
equator and splat it towards uh the


00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:46.230
little moon that it has in orbit around


00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.110
it. So yeah, so remarkable really


00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:51.190
remarkable piece of work.


00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.990
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh as for Charles Darwin's


00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.149
son, well, you've got a you got a few to


00:22:56.159 --> 00:22:59.430
choose from. There's William George, uh


00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.830
Francis, Leonard, Horus, and Charles Jr.


00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:05.909
So take your pick.


00:23:05.919 --> 00:23:07.909
>> Yeah, because Scott and his wife had 10


00:23:07.919 --> 00:23:10.310
kids.


00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:12.390
>> It might have been Well, there you go.


00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.270
It's evolution for you. Uh I think it


00:23:15.280 --> 00:23:16.630
might have been William. It's probably


00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.669
very easy to find because um uh the


00:23:19.679 --> 00:23:21.990
younger Darwin uh whichever one it was


00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.270
was quite prominent in the world of


00:23:23.280 --> 00:23:25.110
astronomy.


00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:27.510
>> Uh yeah, he was he was first born in


00:23:27.520 --> 00:23:31.430
1839. William Erasmus


00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:32.789
uh Darwin,


00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.510
>> eldest child.


00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:34.149
>> That's okay.


00:23:34.159 --> 00:23:34.549
>> Yeah.


00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:37.029
>> Although if he was a banker.


00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.549
>> Oh, well that might mean Oh,


00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.149
>> hang on. It'll be George because he was


00:23:40.159 --> 00:23:41.510
a prominent mathematician and


00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:42.149
astronomer.


00:23:42.159 --> 00:23:44.310
>> That's it. Okay. There you go. George


00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:46.230
Howard Darwin.


00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:46.950
>> Very good.


00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:47.430
>> Yeah,


00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:48.549
>> we got there in the end.


00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.830
>> We did. We did eventually. Yeah. Um


00:23:51.840 --> 00:23:52.230
Yeah.


00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.990
>> Now, I did have a bit of trouble with


00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.149
you breaking up, so I missed a couple of


00:23:56.159 --> 00:23:57.270
bits and pieces. Uh


00:23:57.280 --> 00:24:00.310
>> oh, sorry. No, that's okay. But um these


00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:01.750
things happen. It's the internet after


00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:06.789
all. It's perfect. Um did we finish?


00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.710
>> No, I was just going to say make one


00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:10.230
more comment. There's there is a


00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.750
spacecraft called her which um is going


00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:17.669
to visit uh the Diddimos system. So we


00:24:17.679 --> 00:24:19.750
should see more evidence of this kind of


00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:21.990
thing. There'll be better images uh down


00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:23.350
the track than what we've been working


00:24:23.360 --> 00:24:25.269
with so far. So I think this is again is


00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.870
a story that we'll revisit at some point


00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.830
down the track.


00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:30.390
>> Very good. Uh I must say the image that


00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.149
they've published on scitecdaily.com


00:24:34.159 --> 00:24:37.669
uh with that color um impression makes


00:24:37.679 --> 00:24:40.630
it look like a passion fruit.


00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.950
>> It does. Yes. Yes. There you go. I've


00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:46.470
got must be a link there as well. You


00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.070
know, you got to create mind pictures


00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:49.830
with this sort of thing. So there you


00:24:49.840 --> 00:24:50.310
are. It's


00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:52.390
>> Yes, you do. Which is very Yes. It's a


00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:53.750
bit bigger than the standard passion


00:24:53.760 --> 00:24:56.710
fruit, but um yeah, probably not quite


00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.149
as nice. Yeah. Uh you can also read that


00:25:00.159 --> 00:25:03.190
article uh in the Planetary Science


00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.269
Journal. You're listening to Space Nuts


00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.830
with Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred


00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:10.950
Watson.


00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.789
>> I'm going to step off the limb now.


00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:20.149
That's one small step for man,


00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:23.110
one leap for mankind.


00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:25.430
>> Space nuts.


00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.070
>> Our final story, and this this sort of


00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:31.510
uh is a a pretty serious story in terms


00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:34.950
of the future of uh telescopic science


00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.470
in Australia. Uh and it's all about uh


00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:43.269
an arrangement or or um an agreement.


00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:44.630
I'm trying to think of the word. A


00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.710
strategic partnership maybe uh between


00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.630
the European Southern Observatory and


00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.630
the University of New South Wales or


00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.149
Australian Telescope um


00:25:54.159 --> 00:25:57.750
uh telescopic um infrastructure. Uh but


00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:01.029
um it that's due to end and there's a


00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.350
risk that we might sort of be left high


00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:06.390
and dry seems to be the inst of this


00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:07.510
story.


00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:09.669
>> That's correct. Yeah. So um what's


00:26:09.679 --> 00:26:11.830
what's prompted uh this this is


00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:13.510
something that I've been deeply involved


00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:16.310
with for the last three years


00:26:16.320 --> 00:26:19.350
>> uh although um so you're absolutely


00:26:19.360 --> 00:26:22.470
right in 2017


00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.070
uh in again it was the federal


00:26:24.080 --> 00:26:26.470
government that underwrote this um


00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.110
Australia the Australian government


00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:30.789
entered into a strategic partnership


00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:32.470
with the European Southern Observatory


00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.870
which gave Australian astronomers access


00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.390
to first of all the four uh 8.2 2 meter


00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.310
telescopes of the VLT, the very large


00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:42.390
telescope down in Chile and a number of


00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.789
other ESO telescopes as well were


00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.269
included uh in that deal. One that


00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.110
wasn't was ALMA, the Atakama Large


00:26:49.120 --> 00:26:51.669
Millimeter Array in which ESO has a a


00:26:51.679 --> 00:26:55.430
share. Uh but um the the others were and


00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.549
it's been absolutely transformative for


00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.230
Australian astronomy because the biggest


00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.510
telescope we had available as of right


00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:05.029
before that was the Anglo Australian


00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.510
telescope, a 3.9 meter telescope. uh


00:27:07.520 --> 00:27:10.549
still doing great work, but um it's only


00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.950
half the size of the world's largest


00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.430
now. Uh and it's uh on a on a fairly


00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.350
indifferent site. They've lost the last


00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:21.110
two nights because of cloud. That's very


00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:23.430
typical. Uh whereas that just doesn't


00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.430
happen in uh the Atakama desert. Uh they


00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:29.830
lose virtually no time to cloud. So you


00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:32.149
and you've got exquisite uh image


00:27:32.159 --> 00:27:33.830
quality because of the lack of


00:27:33.840 --> 00:27:36.710
atmospheric turbulence. So that um for


00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.909
many years has been uh the holy grail of


00:27:39.919 --> 00:27:41.669
Australian astronomers wanting


00:27:41.679 --> 00:27:44.470
association with ESO. Uh Australian


00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.710
astronomers every 10 years put out a


00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.149
decadal plan. Uh a new one has just been


00:27:50.159 --> 00:27:52.789
released last year. It's uh but for the


00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.669
last three I think membership of the


00:27:55.679 --> 00:27:57.510
European Southern Observatory has been


00:27:57.520 --> 00:27:59.990
top of the list. Um and in fact we


00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.549
nearly got it back in 1996 but that


00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:04.789
didn't quite work out. The strategic


00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:08.710
partnership was uh a special deal um and


00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.750
it was sort of almost like a try before


00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:16.230
you buy arrangement um with the hope


00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.710
back in 2017,


00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.990
excuse me, that by the end of the


00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.549
strategic partnership uh Australia would


00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.669
be in a position to um enter into full


00:28:25.679 --> 00:28:27.669
membership of the European Southern


00:28:27.679 --> 00:28:29.269
Observatory rather than just this


00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.710
partnership. So that was the bright


00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.870
hope. Excuse me. 10 years have gone by.


00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:38.710
Sorry, I've got froggy my throat about


00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.269
this. Um 10 years have gone by which


00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.269
have been very successful for Australian


00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:45.269
astronomers. But we're now reaching the


00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.909
end of that deal. Uh it ends next year


00:28:47.919 --> 00:28:49.830
in fact at the end of next year and in


00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:52.870
fact this July is the last deadline for


00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.950
which Australian astronomers can apply


00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.669
for time. So it's really, you know, the


00:28:57.679 --> 00:29:02.710
the the pointy end of this is coming up.


00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.230
Excuse me. European Southern


00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.789
Observatory, sorry about that, is very


00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.269
keen for Australia to become full


00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:12.310
members. Uh it's sort of looking as


00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:15.269
though Canada might be as well. Um they


00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.470
might be assess um accessing to full


00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.950
membership. Not sure about that. But


00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.870
Australia, of course, all Australian


00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.830
astronomers are keen. the Australian um


00:29:25.840 --> 00:29:28.310
uh sorry the European Southern


00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:30.870
Observatory is keen. What's the problem?


00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.510
The problem is it's quite expensive.


00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:37.510
>> Uh it's an expensive venture. Um and


00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:41.029
your so your annual subscription to ESO


00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.470
is it depends on your gross domestic


00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.830
product. uh and ours is high enough that


00:29:47.840 --> 00:29:50.149
it means that our fee for membership of


00:29:50.159 --> 00:29:54.389
ESO is is is relatively high. It's $40


00:29:54.399 --> 00:29:56.310
million a year. That would be what it


00:29:56.320 --> 00:30:00.549
would cost uh for us to join ESO.


00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.029
Now, the problem at the moment is we're


00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.830
in a an era of fiscal um well


00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:11.750
limitations. uh the governments, federal


00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:13.350
government in particular, are trying to


00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:16.310
reduce costs and you know when you put


00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:18.230
it against a hospital or something like


00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.710
that, uh $40 million a year is is quite


00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.630
significant amount. Uh but what the


00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.470
press release that's just been released


00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.230
by by the University of New South Wales,


00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.350
which is why you picked that up at the


00:30:33.360 --> 00:30:36.310
beginning, uh it's uh drawing attention


00:30:36.320 --> 00:30:39.990
to uh an economic study by a very


00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.190
wellrespected economist in Australia, uh


00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:46.230
Professor Richard Holden, who's also at


00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.389
the University of New South Wales, hence


00:30:48.399 --> 00:30:52.950
the press release from UNSW. Um he has


00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.830
shown that


00:30:55.840 --> 00:31:00.230
um far from it being a luxury item for


00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.190
governments to fund astronomy and to


00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.029
include things like membership of the


00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.430
European Southern Observatory. Far from


00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.590
it being a luxury item, it actually


00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:12.710
generates considerable revenue.


00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.669
uh and the just what we do now this


00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:18.149
covers about because um astronomy


00:31:18.159 --> 00:31:20.710
stimulates research into high-end


00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:22.870
instrumentation uh optical


00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.029
instrumentation that's developed here in


00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.430
Australia is at the top of the list in


00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.630
the in the in a on a world scale uh the


00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.389
instruments for astronomy and space


00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:36.310
science uh and that um effectively


00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.630
stimulates industry to join in with this


00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.909
and puts new inventions out there and so


00:31:41.919 --> 00:31:46.230
this uh quite rigorous uh analysis of


00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:50.070
the benefits of being in astronomy by uh


00:31:50.080 --> 00:31:54.310
by professor Richard Holden uh has shown


00:31:54.320 --> 00:31:56.470
and this is his paper that's just been


00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.830
published. It shows uh well let me read


00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:01.830
uh there is a strong case for membership


00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:04.230
in the ESO as an investment in basic


00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.310
research. While there have been numerous


00:32:06.320 --> 00:32:08.310
uh attempts to quantify the economic


00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:10.389
returns to Australian university


00:32:10.399 --> 00:32:13.190
research, this report concludes by


00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.029
taking a novel approach based on


00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.750
endogenous growth theory. This produces


00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:20.149
more rigorous and plausible estimates of


00:32:20.159 --> 00:32:23.190
the economic value of existing astronomy


00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.350
and astrophysics research in Australia.


00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:27.750
You can see Jordi agrees with all this.


00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:30.630
And the bottom line is uh what comes out


00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:33.590
of research in Australia


00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:38.310
$330 million per year. Uh so what he


00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:41.830
says is at $330 million per year. This


00:32:41.840 --> 00:32:44.389
is an exceptional return on the 184


00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:47.830
tenur and 627 total scholars in the


00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:49.990
field of astronomy in Australia. So a


00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.710
small group of people are generating a


00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.789
huge economic return because of the


00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:57.029
research that they do. And if you're


00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.789
putting $330 million per year out, uh


00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.909
then a $40 million uh fee to be part of


00:33:03.919 --> 00:33:07.990
ISO seems like a small uh quite a small


00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.789
fee. Uh and what that does though is


00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:12.870
gives Australian astronomers access to


00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.990
the very finest facilities in the world.


00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:17.990
Uh we can build instruments for them, we


00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.549
can do research with them and uh as I


00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.029
said all these spin-offs generate um


00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.190
that kind of figure. And one last point


00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.149
in this if I may, Andrew, I'm sorry, you


00:33:28.159 --> 00:33:31.509
rambled on a bit as as I do. Um,


00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.310
>> Australia of course uh Thank you.


00:33:34.320 --> 00:33:37.350
Australia of course is a uh is one of


00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:40.470
the main uh contributors to the square


00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.029
kilometer array observatory. So


00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.950
Australia's radio astronomers are going


00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:48.149
to benefit enormously by access when


00:33:48.159 --> 00:33:50.789
that facility comes on stream towards


00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.950
the end of the decade. uh part of it in


00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.870
South Africa, part of it in Australia,


00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.549
the SKA low facility, uh the the biggest


00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.269
and best radio telescope anywhere in the


00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.990
world, the the two halves of it. Um


00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.669
because Australian astronomers have


00:34:05.679 --> 00:34:08.869
access to that. Um it's always been seen


00:34:08.879 --> 00:34:11.030
that the SKA, the square kilometer


00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:13.510
array, would be entirely complimentary


00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:15.589
to the next big thing that ESO is


00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.109
building, and they're well under well


00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.109
underway with it. And that of course is


00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.750
the ELT, the extremely large telescope


00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.589
with a mirror 10 times the diameter of


00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.589
the Anglo Australian telescope, 39


00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:29.589
meters. When that starts producing data,


00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.389
uh 2029 I think is uh currently the


00:34:32.399 --> 00:34:35.270
date, it will revolutionize astronomy.


00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:36.790
It'll absolutely revolutionize


00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.550
astronomy. uh and with our astronomers


00:34:40.560 --> 00:34:42.629
here having access also to the world's


00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.629
best radio telescope, those two


00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:47.669
facilities dubtail perfectly to give you


00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.149
absolutely pole position on the world


00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.430
stage uh of astronomy. So um it makes


00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.069
that $40 million a year look a lot more


00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.109
modest, but the bottom line is the


00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.109
decision has not yet been made. That's


00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:03.109
the main thing. So the minister is still


00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:03.910
considering this.


00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:05.670
>> Yeah, but you're talking politics here.


00:35:05.680 --> 00:35:08.470
So the left hand might not know what the


00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:11.430
right hand's doing. So you know someone


00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:14.150
will say 40 million no way not knowing


00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:17.430
that 330 million is being generated.


00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:20.550
>> Yeah that's danger which is


00:35:20.560 --> 00:35:22.150
>> and that's why I'm talking about this


00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:24.790
paper because that is a very compelling


00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:28.630
argument for um you know for um actually


00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:30.310
the government stamping up the joining


00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.750
fee. Maybe it'll happen. We um we uh we


00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:35.910
defer to the minister, the Minister for


00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:39.190
Science uh uh and Industry and


00:35:39.200 --> 00:35:41.750
Resources. Uh we'll see what he has to


00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:42.470
say.


00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:44.150
>> Indeed, we will. If you'd like to read


00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:46.470
about that, you can find it at the


00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.630
University of New South Wales website


00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:52.390
where they've published the article. Uh


00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.030
and um that's about it, Fred. Well, I


00:35:55.040 --> 00:35:56.710
think we're done.


00:35:56.720 --> 00:35:59.190
>> We are. Yes. Um and um maybe we'll end


00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:01.030
on an optimistic note that maybe one day


00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:03.349
you and I'll be talking about the um


00:36:03.359 --> 00:36:06.310
ceremony that allows Australia to join


00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:07.270
ISO. Who knows?


00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:08.950
>> Would be wonderful. Yes, indeed it


00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:09.430
would.


00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:10.950
>> Fred, thanks so much. We'll catch you on


00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:12.710
the next episode.


00:36:12.720 --> 00:36:14.550
>> It sounds good. Thank you, Andrew.


00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:16.870
>> Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at


00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.589
large. And don't forget to uh visit our


00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:21.750
website uh in between episodes. You can


00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.390
do that at spacenutspodcast.com


00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.270
or spacenuts.io.


00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.030
uh have a look around, visit the shop.


00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:30.630
Maybe you'd like to become a supporter.


00:36:30.640 --> 00:36:32.069
You can do that by clicking on the


00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.390
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00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:35.829
can leave us a message or a question


00:36:35.839 --> 00:36:37.750
through the ask me anything tab at the


00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.950
top. Uh just have a look around even. Um


00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:43.910
and uh yeah, that's about it. Uh and


00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.270
thanks to Hugh in the studio, although


00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.550
he couldn't be with us today, he went


00:36:46.560 --> 00:36:48.470
and raided his piggy bank to see if he


00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.510
could scrape up $40 million so that we


00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:53.750
could um become full members of the


00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.990
European Southern Observatory. But I


00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.990
haven't heard back from him on that. Uh


00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.910
I think he ended up at JB Hi-Fi


00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.230
actually. Anyway, uh from me, Andrew


00:37:02.240 --> 00:37:03.910
Dunley, thanks for your company. We'll


00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.670
catch you on the next episode of Space


00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:06.950
Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:07.910
>> Space Nuts.


00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.990
>> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.230
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00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:15.190
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