Erupting Exo Comets, Boiling Ice Moons & Martian Climate Revelations | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Hello again. Thanks for joining us on


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Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunley,


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your host, and it's good to be with you.


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Uh this is where we talk about astronomy


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and space science every week, twice a


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week, in fact. And on today's program,


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uh more news coming from the exoc comet


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3iLas. Apparently, it is erupting. How


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so? What can we learn from that? We're


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also going to look at the boiling oceans


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of ice moons. That sounds like a


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contradiction in terms, doesn't it?


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Boiling ice, but apparently it's


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happening. Uh, more revelations about


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the former climate of Mars. And this is


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really interesting. And a whoopsy daisy


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with the Sawyers launch pad. That's all


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coming up in this episode of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space Nuts. 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space nuts.


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>> Astronauts report it. It feels good.


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>> And looking better than this morning's


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golf round at my golf club. Is Professor


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Fred Watson astronomer at large? Hello,


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Fred.


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>> How you doing, Andrew?


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>> Uh I'm I'm not sure. Uh if you looked


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like my golf round, you would be in a


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very bad way. But you know that that's


00:01:18.880 --> 00:01:21.190
golf. You had some shockers occasionally


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and I had one today. So,


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>> well, you but last week you were


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championship winning, so


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>> Yes. And and we have an old saying in


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golf, uh, from rooster to feather


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duster. That's what's that's what's


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happened there.


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>> Oh, I see. Okay. Oh, yeah. Well, feather


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dusters have their place.


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>> Yeah. Not on a golf course.


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>> No.


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>> You can't hit a can't hit a ball very


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far with a feather duster. I can tell


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you that.


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>> Yes. What's been happening in your


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world, Fred? Are you all right?


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>> Yep. All right. I'm I've been having the


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um 30,000 kilometer oil and water tires


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check with I was just saying my eighth


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medical appointment this morning since


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we got back two weeks ago. So, but it's


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all so so far so good. Yeah.


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>> Yeah. Well, after we did our three


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months overseas. Yeah. That was our life


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for a couple of weeks, too. Catching up


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on all those things.


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>> Catching up on the medical stuff.


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>> Yeah. Cuz if you if you get a medical


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checkup on a on a cruise ship, it cost


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you it cost you a fortune. Just don't


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get sick on a cruise ship.


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>> No, I wouldn't actually do that. No,


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>> no, not a good idea. Uh, let's get into


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it, Fred. And our first story takes us


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once again to Three Eye Atlas, the exoc


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comet that has been in our skies since I


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think it was discovered in July.


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>> Yes.


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>> And we've been talking about it ever


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since. And it's been quite an exciting


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find. And now they've discovered uh


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volcanic eruptions. Is that am I is that


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just you know creative license or is


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that sort of what's happening?


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>> It's um it is a bit of both actually.


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Uh I think um so the the idea of what we


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call cryo volcanoes, volcanic eruptions


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on cold icy worlds is a phenomenon that


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we've seen before uh on a number of


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bodies. Uh we think that uh series the


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biggest object in the asteroid belt and


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a dwarf planet as according to our


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current classification Titan Saturn's


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giant moon Titan and probably Pluto as


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well um the dwarf planet Pluto we think


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they have all had um ice volcanoes cry


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volcanoes on their surface because their


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surface temperatures well in the case of


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Pluto it's way below it's about 200


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minus 230 I


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Uh it's a little bit warmer on Titan and


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a little bit warmer still on uh series,


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but still way below zero. And so the


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structure of these worlds is a, as you


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know, it's a rocky core with an ocean of


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maybe liquid water, maybe something


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slushy, maybe as in the case of series,


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a mix with ammonia in it. Um, and


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uh the that because over over the top of


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that you've got a crust of water ice


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which is as hard as rock and that's what


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it behaves like but the liquid below


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just like magma on the earth's crust


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only that's a lot hotter but the liquid


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below is under pressure and sometimes


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punctures the crusty surface the icy


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crust and you get a cryo volcano uh


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which are a little bit funnyl looking.


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They're not um you know what we think of


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as a classic strata volcano. And you and


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I have both seen Mount Fuji and we know


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that's the absolute archetypal uh um


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strata volcano.


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>> I've se I've seen them in Guatemala.


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They


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>> Yes, that's right. They are monsters of


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things. Those


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>> Yes. Yes. I remember you telling me


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about quite extraordinary. Um but uh ice


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volcanoes tend to be more rounded in


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their in their you know in their


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structure. Certainly around the cold era


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that they've got a rounded top and I


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think that's just because of the


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properties of the liquid that's being


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gushed out. It's not molten lava. It's


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molten slush. Uh that's as I said


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probably ammonia and um and water in the


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case of of series. Anyway, um the bottom


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line with all this is that uh we we


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believe that cryov volcanoes are common


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on trans neptunian objects and and


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certainly uh Pluto is a trans neptunian


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object. Uh we think there is evidence


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that other trans neptunian objects out


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there thinks beyond the orbit of Neptune


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uh have got cryo volcanoes on their


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surface as well. Um and what's happened


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um is that if if you imagine that comet


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3i Atlas, the uh interstellar comet or


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exoc comet as you said, I like that


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term. Um it's uh if you imagine that


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being from the trans neptunian zone of


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its uh original solar system, which it


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probably is, uh then it may well have


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cry volcanoes on its surface. And so


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that's the sort of premise I think from


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which this work has started. Uh but


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there is a group of uh I think they're


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Spanish uh scientists who have used a


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telescope in Spain and they've basically


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looked at um the comet when it was close


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to its um closest approach to the sun.


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In other words, when it was close to


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perihelion. Now, when it went through


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perihelion, it was invisible to us. That


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was on October the 29th.


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>> Yeah.


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>> Um and because the sun was in the way.


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Uh and that kind of spoils the view a


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bit. But they uh what they so what


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they're um what they're doing is uh


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taking um observations before that and


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after that as close as they can. Uh and


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it's all to see what happens to the icy


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surface of the comet as it uh gets


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heated up by the sun sun's radiation.


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>> Uh so um


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uh the the the


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brightness of the comet uh got much more


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uh much higher when it passed the sun.


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And that's typical because as the


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nearest point to the sun, the comet's


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feeling the most extreme solar radiation


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both in terms of ultraviolet light and


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solar wind and that's when they tend to


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get most active. Uh so what they're


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suggesting is that there is


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basically um something that's happened


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that means that the solid carbon dioxide


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uh which is turning into gaseous carbon


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dio dioxide under the sun's radiation.


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They think that um there's been a


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reaction uh because the um the crust


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looks as though they they believe the


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comet has a crust uh and a reaction


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within the comet has u essentially and


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it involves um uh the um


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molecules that they mention are reactive


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metallic grains like nickel and iron


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sulfides. I'm not a chemist, so I can't


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comment on that, but I can believe that.


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Um, and what they're saying is that


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there's there's been stuff happening


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underneath the surface of the comet that


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has um basically allowed gas to erupt


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from the comet itself. And that's the


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gas that has caused the increase in


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brightening because you've suddenly got


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a lot more gas around the comet which is


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basically glowing because of the uh


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effect of the solar radiation. Uh, I


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think that's the gist of the story,


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Andrew. It's um


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>> Yeah, I I'd be I'm a bit surprised given


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how big Three Atlas is. It's not a not a


00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:09.110
huge object in this. Well, you know, if


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it hit us, it wouldn't be nice, but um


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it it I I would have thought something


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that small wouldn't be able to kind of


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erupt, but I suppose it's more of a


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reaction to its uh environment.


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>> That That's correct. Yes. and and it I


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suppose what needs an eruption or what


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would drive an eruption is if you've got


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a harder crust above something beneath


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it that is uh more vol sorry more um uh


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less viscous that way something that's


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slloshing around and I think that's what


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these scientists are suggesting and it's


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their um you know their observations of


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the the coma of the comet the coma is


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the the brightness around the nucleus


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the nucleus is the icy body itself the


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coma that has brightened up. I think the


00:09:53.760 --> 00:09:56.949
tail has brightened up as well. Um and


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the basically they're suggesting that


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that's due to this phenomenon of of a


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less viscous sub um mantle if you want


00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.550
to put it that way because that's what


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it is in the case of the earth. Uh that


00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:12.710
allows an eruption to take place. Um


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you're right about the size though


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because at first um estimates of three


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Atlas's size and this is the nucleus


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that we're talking about the actual icy


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object itself was in the region of 20


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kilometers which would be very very


00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:29.269
large for a comet but I think the the


00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:31.030
latest observations from the Hubble


00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:33.190
Space Telescope suggest it's much less


00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:36.630
than that between about 500 meters and a


00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:39.030
kilometer or so something of that sort.


00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:39.509
M


00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:42.949
>> um actually it it might be more than


00:10:42.959 --> 00:10:46.870
that sort of 500 m maybe to 5 km some


00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:48.470
something in that range is what they're


00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:49.430
suggesting.


00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.230
>> Okay. And so there's um there's much to


00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.350
learn from this behavior because uh we


00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:56.949
we might be able to see what's going on


00:10:56.959 --> 00:10:57.990
inside.


00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.350
>> Yes, that's right. That's the thing


00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.750
about cry volcanoes, what they spew out


00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:03.670
is what's inside the object. And so it's


00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:06.389
worth studying. Um, all the ones that


00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:08.949
we've seen so far, like on Pluto, Titan,


00:11:08.959 --> 00:11:11.030
and series, they're all extinct. They're


00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:13.670
not doing anything. But there's uh


00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:15.269
evidence around them. Certainly in


00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.910
series, there's all these uh chemicals


00:11:17.920 --> 00:11:19.829
that have been and and you might


00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:21.430
remember that series has got bright


00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.310
spots on it, uh, which we think are


00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.110
salts left behind by liquid that's oozed


00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.670
up in these either in fractures or the


00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:32.470
cry volcanoes themselves. uh and left


00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.630
and as the solar radiation has sort of


00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:36.949
boiled away the liquid uh you've got


00:11:36.959 --> 00:11:38.949
you've got these salts left which are


00:11:38.959 --> 00:11:41.430
really quite white in color. Uh that's


00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.590
why series was such an interesting world


00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.750
when the dawn spacecraft was approaching


00:11:45.760 --> 00:11:47.350
it and we could see all these spots on


00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:50.550
it markets put there by extraterrestrial


00:11:50.560 --> 00:11:52.150
intelligence. No, there were fields of


00:11:52.160 --> 00:11:55.269
salt someone


00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:56.310
there.


00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.190
>> No, we continue to be mesmerized by


00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.910
three Atlas. it just keeps um for, you


00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.910
know, no pun intended, throwing up new


00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:06.629
information and interesting things. So,


00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.790
um I'm sure there'll be more to learn uh


00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:13.670
as it keeps um skimming our sun and


00:12:13.680 --> 00:12:15.509
it'll disappear later next year. Next


00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:16.790
year sometime, won't it? It'll be


00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:19.190
>> I think that's right. Yeah. Below


00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:21.110
>> below the level that we can detect it,


00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.870
especially if it's, you know, only 5


00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:25.430
kilometers or less in size. That's not


00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.430
much to refle reflect the sun's light


00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.750
once you've got all the activity


00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:31.430
stopping because the sun's radiation's


00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:31.990
going.


00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.389
>> Yes, indeed. All right. Um I think you


00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.910
can read up on that story uh at the live


00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:39.750
science website, but I think they've


00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:42.949
also published their findings in um the


00:12:42.959 --> 00:12:44.949
archive server. Yes, they have. So, you


00:12:44.959 --> 00:12:46.870
might want to check that out there. This


00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:49.110
is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and


00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.590
Professor Fred Watson.


00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.430
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00:15:32.959 --> 00:15:35.670
>> And I feel space nuts. Now, you might


00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:37.990
think it's weird that a an object as


00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.550
small as a comet could um you know have


00:15:40.560 --> 00:15:43.269
a cryo volcano, but what's even weirder


00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.389
is this story about ice moons having


00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.870
boiling oceans. Do tell.


00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:53.990
>> This is work from uh uh I think a number


00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.590
of um authors, some at least of whom are


00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.749
from the University of California,


00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.269
Davis. uh the lead author Max Rudolph is


00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.310
from that institution and uh they've


00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.110
been thinking about


00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.030
uh the


00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:14.389
the exact details of the structure of


00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:16.790
the ice moons that we so often talk


00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:18.470
about on space shuttles.


00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.710
>> Once again, that structure, a rocky


00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.629
core, a liquid ocean over the top of it,


00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.230
and an icy crust on top of that. So um


00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.749
they've um looked in some detail at the


00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.949
physics of this and what's driven that


00:16:32.959 --> 00:16:35.590
are things that we see on these ice


00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.430
moons and some of the contrasts. For


00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.710
example um you know you've only to think


00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:43.110
about Enceladus perhaps the poster child


00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:44.949
of the ice moons because of the geysers


00:16:44.959 --> 00:16:47.509
of ice crystals that erupt from its


00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.590
southern pole. Um, and the region where


00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.430
those geysers erupt, uh, is is very


00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.670
fractured. Um, in fact, the fractures


00:16:57.680 --> 00:16:59.749
were discovered first before Cassini


00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.870
spotted the the the ice geysers. Um, and


00:17:02.880 --> 00:17:04.390
they were called tiger stripes because


00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.470
they're sort of blue in color. I'm not


00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.949
quite sure why a blue tiger would uh


00:17:08.959 --> 00:17:11.110
have those stripes, but anyway, that's


00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:12.309
what they look like. They look like


00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:13.990
stripes on a tiger, but they're blue. It


00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.230
is otherwise a stunningly beautiful


00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.029
world. Yes, it is. Absolutely, I agree


00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:23.029
with that. But contrast that with Mimas,


00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.789
which is one of um Saturn's moons that


00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.750
is, you know, it's in the same region of


00:17:29.760 --> 00:17:31.750
the solar system, but it is totally


00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.430
totally different. It's got an ancient


00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:36.310
surface uh peppered with craters, one of


00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:38.150
which is huge and makes it look like the


00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.190
Death Star. Uh that's why Mimas, I


00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:42.710
think, is the poster child of science


00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.230
fiction readers rather than physicists.


00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.150
um but they've all got the same the same


00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.470
structure. So why are they so different?


00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.190
>> And so um these scientists at the


00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:54.789
University of California Davis and


00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.190
elsewhere have looked in detail at that


00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.029
the physics of what happens. And um it


00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.270
so it it a lot depends on


00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:08.549
how they manage to maintain their


00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.510
internal heat and in certainly in the


00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:13.270
case of Enceladus and I think this is


00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.950
probably true with Mimas as well but to


00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.470
a le lesser extent you've got uh tidal


00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.950
forces you've got a giant planet in this


00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.190
case we're talking about Saturn which is


00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:26.390
your next door neighbor uh and having


00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.830
something big that big that near is


00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:32.630
going to exert really strong tidal


00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.549
forces. And tidal forces are ones that


00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:39.110
tend to stretch and squeeze uh a um a


00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:43.430
body like a moon. Um and so that's where


00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.190
we think most of the internal heat comes


00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.390
from uh in uh certainly in Enceladus


00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.390
that you've got Enceladus in an orbit


00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.190
that is not circular. And so as it's


00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:55.270
nearer and further away from Saturn in


00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:57.590
its orbits, it will be stretched and


00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:00.710
squeezed that causes frictional heating


00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.990
and that in excuse me that in turn keeps


00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.230
that liquid water ocean liquid uh rather


00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.029
than letting it freeze. So, but what


00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.630
they have suggested these authors is um


00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.310
if you think about what's happening here


00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:23.029
uh the ice uh above the ocean when


00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.029
you've got stronger tidal heating that


00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.630
shell of ice can melt on its underside.


00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.549
>> And we know that ice is odd in that it


00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.029
gets bigger as it freezes.


00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.669
>> Yes. Um it's um that's why you get burst


00:19:39.679 --> 00:19:41.430
pipes because when the ice freezes it


00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.150
gets bigger.


00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:42.630
>> That's right.


00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.070
>> Um and so if the ice melts then you've


00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:50.789
got um basically uh a smaller smaller


00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.270
volume of ice. And what they're


00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:58.630
suggesting is that uh when that happens


00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.190
um the when the ice shell melts from the


00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.350
bottom you get effectively a vacuum uh


00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:07.350
above the liquid. Mhm.


00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:10.470
>> Um or it wants to form a vacuum because


00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.110
the pressure is suddenly low and what


00:20:13.120 --> 00:20:17.029
that can do is cause the liquid to boil.


00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.789
Um I don't know whether you've ever seen


00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.029
liquid boiling under low pressure.


00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:21.830
Andrew,


00:20:21.840 --> 00:20:22.310
>> no.


00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:24.310
>> Uh it's pretty easy to demonstrate if


00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:26.310
you've if you've got a hypodermic


00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:28.230
syringe or something like that. Um


00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:29.669
transparent one. And I used to use them


00:20:29.679 --> 00:20:33.430
for uh dropping bits of liquid onto


00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.350
things when I was building fiber optic


00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:37.669
systems at the observatory. If you got a


00:20:37.679 --> 00:20:39.190
hypodermic syringe and you fill it with


00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.510
water uh and you put your finger over


00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:45.110
the end of it um and then pull back the


00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:48.149
uh pull back the the syringe uh piston,


00:20:48.159 --> 00:20:50.149
uh the water will boil because you


00:20:50.159 --> 00:20:53.510
create a vacuum above it uh and and it


00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:55.029
basically just boils. It's quite


00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.990
dramatic to watch. Does it boil boil hot


00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.630
or is it just


00:20:58.640 --> 00:20:59.909
>> No, it's it's boiling at room


00:20:59.919 --> 00:21:00.870
temperature.


00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:01.190
>> Wow.


00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.590
>> Um so, and so and what we're talking


00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:04.870
about here is something that's boiling


00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.510
at much lower than room temperature


00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:09.190
because you've got ice above it. But if


00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:10.470
the pressure is low enough, the water


00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.190
will boil. Uh and that's why you can't


00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.669
have liquid water for very long anyway


00:21:15.679 --> 00:21:17.110
on Mars because the air pressure above


00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.669
it is too too low.


00:21:19.679 --> 00:21:22.789
So yes, um uh the suggestion is that we


00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.590
might get this boiling. Uh and what


00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:29.350
they're saying is that that could give


00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:32.870
you some of the strange


00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.350
uh or the differences in terrain that we


00:21:35.360 --> 00:21:39.110
see between the moons. Um


00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:41.909
if I can um uh let's see this is from


00:21:41.919 --> 00:21:46.070
Scitec Daily. This is uh it might be a


00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:47.909
press release actually by University of


00:21:47.919 --> 00:21:49.990
California Davis. I was going to read


00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.390
from it. I want to credit the uh the


00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:57.510
origin. Um, let me say so, so Mimas, uh,


00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:00.390
that's the Death Star ice moon. Oh, it


00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:01.909
says, I'll read the whole thing and I


00:22:01.919 --> 00:22:05.990
won't comment on it. Um, images.


00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.029
All right. There's a there's a there's


00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.870
another world another world that they're


00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.470
talking about, which is Miranda, which


00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.310
is one of Uranus's moons. We'll forget


00:22:14.320 --> 00:22:15.990
that for a minute, but we'll just talk


00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.029
about Mimas. uh less than 250 mi across


00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:20.789
and pitted with craters, including a


00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.149
very large crater, earning it the


00:22:22.159 --> 00:22:24.549
nickname Death Star. It appears to be


00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.830
geologically dead, Rudolph said, uh lead


00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:30.310
author. But a wubble in its movement


00:22:30.320 --> 00:22:32.470
suggests an ocean is present. Because


00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.270
Mimos's ice shell is not expected to


00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:37.909
break as a result of ice shell thinning,


00:22:37.919 --> 00:22:40.230
the presence of an ocean can be


00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.549
reconciled with a geologically dead


00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.190
surface. Um, but what they're then


00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.789
saying is, uh, that if you've got, uh, a


00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.110
thinner eye shell, then you'll end up


00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:53.350
with a surface like the one on Enceladus


00:22:53.360 --> 00:22:55.510
with stuff actually bursting through it.


00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:55.909
>> Okay.


00:22:55.919 --> 00:22:58.230
>> Uh, really interesting piece of work.


00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.430
Um, it's uh, it's in nature astronomy.


00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.590
So, it's a top level journal that this


00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:06.310
is published in. Uh, and the paper in


00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:07.830
Nature Astronomy is called Boiling


00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:10.630
Oceans and Compressional Tectonics on


00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.510
emerging ocean worlds. There you go.


00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:15.110
>> Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, we


00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:19.110
didn't even know that ice moons existed.


00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:21.430
I um I'm sure


00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.029
>> when you were when you were an adult,


00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.909
you didn't know any, you know, but now


00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:28.390
we're finding more and more of them.


00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:29.830
We're starting to go, well, hang on a


00:23:29.840 --> 00:23:30.870
minute.


00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.590
>> Pluto could be one of these, too. And


00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:35.510
the list just gets longer and longer.


00:23:35.520 --> 00:23:36.549
>> Yeah, it probably is.


00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.830
>> It Yeah. Um so, and so much to learn.


00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:42.630
And of course, um, yeah, as we've


00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:44.149
mentioned many times before, there's a


00:23:44.159 --> 00:23:46.470
lot of excitement in regard to having


00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.390
worlds in our solar system with liquid


00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.710
oceans because,


00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.590
um, you know, water means life on Earth.


00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:55.909
So, could it be the same elsewhere?


00:23:55.919 --> 00:23:59.430
It's, um, yeah, it's it's it's a mystery


00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:01.029
that's going to be resolved in the not


00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.590
too distant future, I imagine.


00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:05.909
>> We can, but hope so. Um, I mean, you


00:24:05.919 --> 00:24:08.789
know, our friend Linda Spilka, former


00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.830
Cassini mission scientist, she's working


00:24:11.840 --> 00:24:16.870
on a on a on a flyby mission to sample


00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:20.630
the geysers of Enceladus again um with


00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.909
with a view to looking for exactly that


00:24:23.919 --> 00:24:26.470
evidence of living organisms in the sub


00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.950
ocean uh sub ice ocean of Enceladus. I


00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.590
hope we are space knotting long enough


00:24:33.600 --> 00:24:36.149
to get the results of that.


00:24:36.159 --> 00:24:38.149
>> And of course, Europa clip is on its way


00:24:38.159 --> 00:24:38.390
too.


00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.990
>> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Which is And


00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.390
so Europa is another ice moon. Similar,


00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.510
you know, similar story.


00:24:43.520 --> 00:24:43.990
>> Yep.


00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.310
>> Yeah. We watch with interest. As Fred


00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:48.549
said, you can read all about it uh on


00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.830
the website Sciiet Daily, or you could


00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:54.630
uh go to the uh the paper itself, which


00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.750
um is down the bottom of this particular


00:24:57.760 --> 00:24:59.830
article somewhere, and I've lost it, but


00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:01.750
um yes, it is a it is a published


00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:04.230
document. Uh Nature Astronomy. There it


00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.990
is right in front of me. This is Space


00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.950
Nuts with Andrew Dunley and Fred Watson.


00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.750
>> 3 2 1


00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:14.310
>> Space Nuts. The more we look at Mars,


00:25:14.320 --> 00:25:17.029
the more we study Mars, the more we


00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.070
start to learn about it. And there's a a


00:25:20.080 --> 00:25:23.029
new uh piece of evidence that's been uh


00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:24.870
discovered. And I believe there's


00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.750
another paper been published saying we


00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:30.310
think that not only did Mars have an


00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:33.830
atmosphere, it had uh and oceans. We


00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:36.549
already know that. But it looks like uh


00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.669
for billions of years it had a near


00:25:39.679 --> 00:25:42.470
tropical environment with pouring rain


00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.950
and um all the things that we take for


00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.430
granted on Earth. This this is quite an


00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.070
amazing um claim I suppose you'd call


00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:58.070
it. It is. Yes. Um so uh lots of um lots


00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:01.350
of uh I guess comparisons being drawn


00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:05.750
here. Um and um our old friend fizz.org


00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:09.110
has got a very nice article uh entitled


00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:11.430
evidence of raindriven climate on Mars


00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.750
found in bleach rocks scattered in


00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:16.070
Jezero crater. Jezro crater is where


00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:20.149
perseverance is. Uh and that is


00:26:20.159 --> 00:26:23.510
something that uh is kind of expected


00:26:23.520 --> 00:26:26.710
because Jezro crater was once a river


00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.789
delta uh from water that flowed from a a


00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.669
river into the crater itself. And we


00:26:33.679 --> 00:26:35.830
have plenty of evidence that that


00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:38.390
happened maybe three to four billion


00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.710
years ago. But what is now happening is


00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.750
that Perseverance is actually having a


00:26:45.760 --> 00:26:47.669
closer look at some of the rocks around


00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:51.830
and has discovered uh some um would you


00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:54.070
excuse me just a moment now that's not


00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:55.990
going to work. I'm just going to ignore


00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.789
that as a phone call. Um I'll have to


00:26:58.799 --> 00:26:59.990
I'll have to ignore it. There's no point


00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.510
in sending a message because it's not


00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:03.190
coming from a mobile phone.


00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.230
>> Oh right.


00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.390
>> Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. You can edit


00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.909
that bit without you. Um what uh what


00:27:09.919 --> 00:27:12.789
has been discovered by Perseverance


00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:19.590
are um aluminium rich clay rocks


00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:22.230
uh and well I'll read the sentence. It's


00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.710
a lovely summary of what the story is.


00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.269
As I said it's on the f.org website. The


00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.510
rocks discovered by NASA's Perseverance


00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:32.950
Mars rover are white alium aluminium


00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.990
rich sorry aluminum rich. I should read


00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.190
it properly and pronounce it properly.


00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.430
We call it aluminium. Uh other side of


00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.269
the Pacific calls it aluminum. So that's


00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:44.710
where this came from. So let's call it


00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.390
that. Uh they are white aluminum rich


00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:53.430
kaolinite clay. So kaite is a clayish uh


00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:56.070
mineral which forms on earth after rocks


00:27:56.080 --> 00:27:58.549
and sediment are leeched of all other


00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.590
minerals by millions of years of a wet


00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:04.310
rainy climate. That's the bottom line


00:28:04.320 --> 00:28:06.389
and it's exactly as you've said evidence


00:28:06.399 --> 00:28:10.870
for uh rain uh long periods of rain uh


00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.549
and you know the what this speaks of is


00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.230
and this is I guess the big question


00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.870
about water on Mars. Were these lakes


00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.110
and seas that we know were there? Were


00:28:21.120 --> 00:28:23.830
they there just, you know, sporadically


00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:26.870
uh just once in a while for a few u


00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.269
million years but not there permanently


00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.110
or were we talking about oceans that


00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:33.350
themselves lasted for millions of years?


00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:35.190
And some of the recent work as well as


00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.269
this particular piece of work uh


00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.750
definitely support the latter. Uh that


00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:41.909
there was rain falling for millions of


00:28:41.919 --> 00:28:44.470
years and it was probably a tropical


00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.630
climate uh exactly as you said in the


00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:51.510
intro. Um um Andrew um so one of the


00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:55.669
authors uh has commented so when you see


00:28:55.679 --> 00:28:58.310
Kalinite on a place like Mars where it's


00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:00.470
barren cold and with certainly no liquid


00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.710
water at the surface it tells us that


00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.230
there was once a lot more water than


00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.870
there is today and it's somebody who's


00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:08.710
actually a collaborator on the


00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:11.190
Perseverance rover. So yes, more


00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.909
evidence still that we had a wet warm


00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:17.510
past uh on the planet Mars and just me


00:29:17.520 --> 00:29:21.669
just maybe uh we had uh life there


00:29:21.679 --> 00:29:23.430
because


00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.630
um the the the sort of rocks that we're


00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.190
talking about the kalinite uh are


00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.350
thought to be a little bit like a time


00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:33.510
capsule that there might be information


00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:35.430
in those rocks from billions of years


00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.549
ago that tell you about whether there


00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.070
were living organism isms on on Mars. Uh


00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:44.549
and that is the sort of holy grail of


00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:47.350
all this work. Whether a chunk of


00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:51.269
kalonite kalinite will be something that


00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.230
the hope hoped for Mars return mission


00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:57.909
would be able to bring back is another


00:29:57.919 --> 00:30:00.149
question. But maybe perseverance will


00:30:00.159 --> 00:30:02.070
drill samples from it so that we might


00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:04.630
find out. Uh because those those caches


00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.549
of of drilled samples are what we're


00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:08.870
expecting to come back to Earth at some


00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.230
point. At the moment, there isn't


00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:11.590
actually a mission on the cards that


00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:13.350
will do that.


00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:15.430
>> Yeah, I know. And that's frustrating,


00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:15.830
right?


00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:18.149
>> But um that's just the way it is at the


00:30:18.159 --> 00:30:21.350
moment. But I was just reading that the


00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:25.190
um ocean or the lake that existed in


00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.750
Jezero Crater they say is about twice


00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:30.389
the size of Lake Taho.


00:30:30.399 --> 00:30:32.549
Um, that would probably mean something


00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.149
to someone. I had to look up how big


00:30:34.159 --> 00:30:38.710
Lake Tahoe is and they're talking 496


00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.149
km. So, the lake that um they're


00:30:42.159 --> 00:30:44.230
investigating or the remnants of it on


00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.269
Mars is twice that size,000 kilometers.


00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:47.590
So,


00:30:47.600 --> 00:30:48.549
>> y


00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.830
>> yeah, um it's pretty uh pretty amazing


00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:56.470
stuff and uh yeah, getting up close to


00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:58.310
some of this evidence is really starting


00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:02.149
to um provide people with the fuel they


00:31:02.159 --> 00:31:03.110
need


00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:05.990
>> to come up with um pretty solid theories


00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.350
I I would suggest.


00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:07.830
>> Yeah.


00:31:07.840 --> 00:31:09.430
>> Or even liquid theories.


00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:11.510
>> Yes, maybe.


00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:13.990
Maybe. Uh because they they keep saying


00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.669
where did all the water go? Oh, there


00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:17.750
must have and makes you wonder now if it


00:31:17.760 --> 00:31:19.750
had billions of years of saturating


00:31:19.760 --> 00:31:22.470
rain, I'm guessing it wasn't continuous.


00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.070
It was, you know, like it is on Earth


00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:25.830
comes and goes, but um there must have


00:31:25.840 --> 00:31:27.669
been a heck of a lot of water around at


00:31:27.679 --> 00:31:29.190
some stage.


00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:30.710
>> Yeah. And we know that a lot of it's


00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:32.950
still there uh locked up in the


00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.310
perafrost underneath the surface and uh


00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.870
in the Arctic and Antarctic regions of


00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.190
Mars. There's uh the ice caps themselves


00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.789
have got huge coms of water locked up in


00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.190
them. But a lot of it also leeched off


00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.669
into space. We know that Mars has lost a


00:31:49.679 --> 00:31:51.990
lot of its water by the hydrogen and


00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.389
oxygen atoms being dissociated and off


00:31:54.399 --> 00:31:56.149
goes the hydrogen because it's very


00:31:56.159 --> 00:31:57.110
light.


00:31:57.120 --> 00:31:58.149
>> Indeed.


00:31:58.159 --> 00:31:59.509
>> All right. But if you'd like to read up


00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.990
on that, as Fred said, it's at fizz.org


00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.070
or you can read the paper. Uh the


00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:05.750
findings were published in the journal


00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:08.870
Communications Earth and Environment.


00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.350
This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:14.950
and Professor Fred Watson. Space Nuts.


00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:18.389
Finally, Fred, uh bit of a bit of a


00:32:18.399 --> 00:32:20.789
bummer really. A whoopsy daisy with the


00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.750
Sawyer's launch pad after a um a launch


00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:25.509
the other day.


00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:26.950
>> Yes, that's correct. So the launch


00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:28.630
itself was successful and it's an


00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.190
important one. It was um I think so


00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.830
mission 28 if I remember rightly. I


00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:35.750
haven't got the details in front of me.


00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:39.350
Uh and uh took three astronauts or three


00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:41.269
space people up to the international


00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.389
space station. One NASA astronaut and


00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:48.630
two so uh Russian cosminauts. Um so they


00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:51.830
were fed up very successfully to the


00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:53.509
international space station. They docked


00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:55.190
about 3 hours after launch, I think, and


00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.149
are now happily um in the space station


00:32:58.159 --> 00:32:59.909
and doing what you do in the space


00:32:59.919 --> 00:33:01.110
station, which is


00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:02.870
>> chess with magnetic chess pieces. That's


00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:03.430
what you do,


00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.950
>> among other things. Yeah. Uh but the um


00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:07.350
there is


00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:08.789
>> I wouldn't like I wouldn't like to play


00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:10.630
a Russian in a game of chess. That


00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.070
absolutely cream me. They're pretty good


00:33:12.080 --> 00:33:13.269
at that, are they?


00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.029
>> I think they are. Yes. That's where a


00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:17.350
lot of the world chess champions have


00:33:17.360 --> 00:33:20.149
come from indeed. Yes.


00:33:20.159 --> 00:33:24.870
Um the so the other side of the coin


00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.389
though is that something went wrong with


00:33:28.399 --> 00:33:31.909
the Soyets launch platform. Uh and


00:33:31.919 --> 00:33:35.430
apparently uh a service platform


00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.710
uh which uh is needed when you're


00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.669
preparing uh the spacecraft for launch


00:33:41.679 --> 00:33:43.909
was not properly stowed. This was about


00:33:43.919 --> 00:33:47.190
20 tons worth I think and that basically


00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:52.149
was blown down into the the flame trench


00:33:52.159 --> 00:33:54.950
which is underneath where the launch


00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.710
takes place and uh did a lot of damage.


00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.110
Uh so I think Ross Cosmos the Russian


00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:03.029
space agent is playing it down a bit and


00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.710
saying oh no we've got all the bits we


00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:05.590
need to mend this


00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:06.710
>> nothing to see here. Well, they've got


00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:08.389
all the bits. They're just absolutely


00:34:08.399 --> 00:34:10.069
shattered and burnt and


00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:12.869
>> Yeah. Well, stuck in a big pit. In a


00:34:12.879 --> 00:34:14.069
pit. Yeah.


00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.470
>> Yeah. I mean, this this is journalism


00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.950
oneonone, Fred. We've got everything. It


00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.389
It's all there.


00:34:20.399 --> 00:34:22.470
>> Yes.


00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.750
>> It's just in pieces, that's all. Um and


00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.030
some observers, some probably um Russian


00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:31.109
journalists have said, "Yeah, in your


00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.629
dreams, this is going to take two years


00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:33.270
to fix."


00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:33.909
>> Yeah.


00:34:33.919 --> 00:34:35.589
>> So, we don't know the answer. It's


00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.589
important because that is the only this


00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:39.750
is at Bikonor where the you know the


00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.510
main launch site is in Kazakhstan u the


00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:47.030
that is the only launchpad certified for


00:34:47.040 --> 00:34:50.389
uh crew carrying Soyots flights


00:34:50.399 --> 00:34:52.869
>> uh and I think the next crew carrying


00:34:52.879 --> 00:34:54.310
flight is scheduled for the middle of


00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:57.829
next year. So there will be a rush on to


00:34:57.839 --> 00:35:00.710
get that organized. I think the progress


00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:03.030
cargo modules have to be launched from


00:35:03.040 --> 00:35:04.390
there as well and I think there's one of


00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:05.910
those supposed to go up in a couple of


00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.310
months time. So there might be uh we


00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:10.310
might see some delays in the program.


00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.390
We'll have to watch how that goes. And


00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:14.310
it may even be that SpaceX could come to


00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.190
the rescue with with a Crew Dragon up


00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:19.829
there or one of their Dragon cargo


00:35:19.839 --> 00:35:21.910
modules. Let's see what happens.


00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.750
>> Wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah. Uh,


00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.910
I think they did have a an issue


00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:29.190
recently with some stranded Chinese


00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:30.230
>> That's right.


00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:32.470
>> Yeah. astronauts and and they're still


00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:33.190
up there. Yes.


00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:35.829
>> Yeah. And and now we've had this issue.


00:35:35.839 --> 00:35:37.829
Uh, and of course we've had issues in


00:35:37.839 --> 00:35:39.670
the past with stranded American


00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:41.670
astronauts and


00:35:41.680 --> 00:35:44.310
>> uh the Boeing Star Liner problem. And


00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:45.589
uh, look, these things are going to


00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.270
happen. That's that's the nature of


00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.470
space. It um, it's it's a high-risk


00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.109
environment. you're um


00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.109
you're you're playing against the odds a


00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:56.870
lot of the time and


00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.910
>> you know um lo losing a chunk of space


00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:02.790
pad's probably a small price to pay as


00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.950
you say it's it's a critical launchpad


00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.790
and and that that


00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.030
>> is the problem they now face getting it


00:36:09.040 --> 00:36:12.470
um back to operational status


00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:13.910
>> because it's the only one they can use


00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.349
for human launches but um yeah that's a


00:36:17.359 --> 00:36:18.870
it's an unfort you know the other


00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.630
interesting part of this story which is


00:36:20.640 --> 00:36:23.349
is not really about the story itself is


00:36:23.359 --> 00:36:25.990
that um you've got this cooperative


00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.950
approach between NASA and Ross Cosmos


00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.470
while the political arms of each country


00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.230
are at each other's heads over the war


00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:37.510
in Ukraine. So I mean this is just nuts


00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:40.150
isn't isn't that the weirdest thing


00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:42.069
about humanity?


00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:46.310
It is uh to me it it speaks of what can


00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:47.589
be achieved though.


00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:50.310
>> Yeah. You know, why aren't we doing this


00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.750
throughout the whole of the whole of uh


00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.870
humanity rather than like space in in a


00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.990
way has focused people on the absolute


00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.270
need to react as though we were one


00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.310
species and one, you know, one community


00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.790
because in space that's what it is.


00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:10.390
Space is hard. Exactly as you've just


00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.030
said. I I've just written 13 chapters of


00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:16.150
my new science fiction novel and um and


00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:19.270
and I go I go exactly with that point


00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.750
that humanity's had to put all of its


00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:23.750
differences aside because


00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.150
>> yeah,


00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:25.829
>> we've got a bigger problem to deal with


00:37:25.839 --> 00:37:27.349
and they're not here.


00:37:27.359 --> 00:37:29.190
>> Yeah, that's right. Well, I'm glad to


00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:30.470
hear that. It sounds like an interesting


00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.190
book.


00:37:31.200 --> 00:37:33.109
>> Um yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with


00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:34.870
it. It's I'm just letting my imagination


00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.670
run wild and I I you know, I write on


00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:39.829
the fly. I don't actually sit down with


00:37:39.839 --> 00:37:42.470
a plan or or a novel, you know, board


00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.510
with all the scenarios. I I just let my


00:37:45.520 --> 00:37:47.030
brain go, okay, where's this going to go


00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.109
next? And sometimes it takes me to some


00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:50.950
weird places. But I've developed this


00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.630
character. He's a bit of a uh he's in


00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:57.829
he's from Earth. But uh he's um Yeah,


00:37:57.839 --> 00:37:59.349
I'm having a lot of fun with him. Let's


00:37:59.359 --> 00:38:00.390
just


00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:01.750
>> He doesn't play golf, does he?


00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:03.910
>> No. No, but he's playing silly buggers,


00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.430
I think, this game. All right, to


00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:07.829
describe it.


00:38:07.839 --> 00:38:09.990
He's he's going I don't know where I'm


00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.990
going to take him, but um so far so


00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.950
good. Uh it's been it's been fun to


00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:16.790
write about, but uh I think I think the


00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:18.710
novel will be called The Orb.


00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:19.190
>> Oh,


00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:22.150
>> but um I don't


00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:23.670
that that's that's a working title. I


00:38:23.680 --> 00:38:26.310
might stick with that, but um we'll


00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.990
we'll see how it goes. But I don't know


00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.510
when that'll be finished. I I'm hoping


00:38:29.520 --> 00:38:31.510
to make it an epic. So it might be, you


00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:33.829
know, or maybe even 20 or 30 pages by


00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:37.589
the time


00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:38.470
Okay.


00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.150
>> See how it goes. One of your longer


00:38:40.160 --> 00:38:41.510
novels.


00:38:41.520 --> 00:38:44.790
>> Yes, indeed. Um, but yes, um,


00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.430
interesting times with cooperation in


00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.069
space and a certain lack of cooperation


00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.550
on the surface of the planet. So,


00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:54.790
hopefully they can get that Sawyer's uh,


00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:57.829
space or launchpad all fixed up. You can


00:38:57.839 --> 00:39:00.069
read about that. Uh, it's all over the


00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.950
news, but spacnews.com has a good story


00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:07.030
about it. Uh, Fred, I think we're done.


00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:08.470
>> Well, that went quickly.


00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:09.190
>> Did did Right.


00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:10.630
>> Just like one of your novels.


00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:13.109
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, that's right. Um, we


00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:16.150
we'll see. Um, but yes, thank you, Fred.


00:39:16.160 --> 00:39:18.390
It's a pleasure as always.


00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.069
>> We'll speak again soon. I hope


00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:21.829
>> we will. Professor Fred Watson,


00:39:21.839 --> 00:39:23.190
astronomer at large. Don't forget to


00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:25.910
visit us online. You can do that at


00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.550
various social media spots. Um,


00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:30.710
Facebook, where we have an official page


00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:34.150
and we have a uh a userenerated page.


00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:36.710
the Space Nuts podcast group. Always a


00:39:36.720 --> 00:39:38.870
lot of fun. You can find us on uh


00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.190
Instagram as well. And if you go to our


00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:44.150
website, uh maybe consider becoming a


00:39:44.160 --> 00:39:46.390
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00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:50.470
mandatory, but uh it's a way of um of


00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:52.630
giving us a little bit of an injection.


00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:54.470
Uh if you would like to help, you can do


00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.430
that at Patreon, Supercast, PayPal, or


00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.510
there's there's a button that says buy


00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:01.510
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00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:03.670
I love coffee. So, uh, you might want to


00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:07.750
look at that at spacenutspodcast.com.


00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.550
Uh, unfortunately, um, Hugh couldn't be


00:40:10.560 --> 00:40:13.670
with us today, um, because he ate


00:40:13.680 --> 00:40:15.990
something that didn't agree with him and


00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.950
he's, um, sort of acting like a cryo


00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.910
volcano. He's


00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:23.990
lots of crying and lots of volcano.


00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.670
Let's just leave it at that. And from


00:40:25.680 --> 00:40:27.910
me, Andrew Dunley,


00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:29.349
thanks for your company. We'll see you


00:40:29.359 --> 00:40:31.030
on the next episode of Space Nuts.


00:40:31.040 --> 00:40:32.950
Bye-bye. Space Nuts.


00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:35.030
>> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:37.349
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00:40:37.359 --> 00:40:40.310
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