Dwarf Planets, Peculiar Moons & the Mystery of Dark Matter | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights &...

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Language: en

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us. Andrew


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Dunley here. Uh this is Space Nuts where


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we talk astronomy and space science.


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Thanks for joining us. Coming up on this


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episode. Oh, lots to talk about and


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really interesting stuff. For a change?


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No. As usual. Uh and and this one um I I


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saw and thought, gee, we got to talk


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about this because we're always looking


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for something in the outer rim of the


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solar system. And now we may have found


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something. And it's not planet 9. In


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fact, it's possibly a new dwarf planet,


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which could mean there is no planet 9.


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Interesting. Uh there's a peculiar moon


00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.670
um orbiting Saturn known as Yapotus, and


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it's starting to get attention again.


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We'll tell you why. And primordial black


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holes. Yep. And the fact that they might


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be today's dark matter. Is that a matter


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we should discuss? Damn right it is. And


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we'll know it.


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Do it right now on Space Nuts. 15


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seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g


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Ignition sequence start. Space nuts. 5 4


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3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts.


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Astronauts report. It feels good. And


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despite his premature announceation, we


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actually welcome Professor Fred Walton


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at large. Hello, Fred. Thank you for


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that. Yes, I do apologize for being


00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:30.710
there before I'm there. Um, forgetting


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that I have to be formally introduced


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before I more good. Yes. Yes. Before


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that's how I used to run my radio show.


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I didn't care what happened. If some if


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someone walked in though, it was part of


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the show.


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I didn't, you know, I never cared about


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standing on ceremony or or, you know,


00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.510
sticking to the rules of radio. What


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rules? I mean, it's just people talking,


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isn't it? and playing music and enjoying


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themselves. I thought that's how I ran.


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Even when I worked with I was I was


00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:04.310
like, "Oh, that's right. I've been


00:02:04.320 --> 00:02:06.069
dropped for it a few times, but uh


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eventually they saw they saw the light


00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.869
and started going, "Hang on a minute."


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Listening to this bloke, we might we


00:02:12.959 --> 00:02:15.830
might be on to something. Uh anyway, uh


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they eventually brought in an expert to


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teach us how to be human beings on the


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radio. Really? Yeah, they did. He did.


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And when she when she talked to me, she


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said, "Don't change a thing." Which I


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really a great endorsement after being


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told to shut up for several years. No.


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Well done. That's good. Uh now, before


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we get started, um how's the weather


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down in Sydney? Because you've been


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copying us spanking with the rain. We


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did. Yes. Uh one day last week, uh just


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overnight we had 97 mm or um getting on


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for five. Well, four inches, isn't it in


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the measure? Yeah, that's right. Four


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inches. Uh that was just one night and


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altogether we probably had something


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like 150 over that wet period. Yeah. Uh


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so it was very wet. Uh very miserable,


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very soggy. Uh fortunately, everything


00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.509
seemed to hold up. Our downstairs granny


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flat, which used to flood when it


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rained, but we had a lot of work done


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last year. That's um that was in good


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shape.


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Everything seemed to be all right. Yeah.


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I shouldn't tell you that. Right now, as


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we record, there's a big rainband headed


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your way. Yes, there is. That's right.


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We um we already It's easing off now. We


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had rain all day, but I'm looking out


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now and it stopped raining. The uh the


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sky is actually thinning. It's still


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quite gray, but it's moving that way,


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which is towards you. Me, it is. We're


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expecting that uh later this afternoon.


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It sort of started off quite bright this


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morning, but it is definitely looking a


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bit grayer now. So, I I have some news.


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At 2:37 a.m. Saturday, oh, our bedroom


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door rattled. Okay. And I my first


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thought was that was an earth tremor.


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And guess what? It was it was a 5 Well,


00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:13.429
they keep varying it, but at the time it


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was a 5.3 Mhm. earthquake uh centered


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around uh north of Ningan. Yeah. Which


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uh is Ningan's 160 kilometers west of us


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and the earthquake was north of them by


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about


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98ks. So it was a bit further than 160


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km from us. And um yeah, it shook cuz


00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:36.629
our door doesn't quite latch perfectly.


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It doesn't hold tight. So it's always a


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bit loose. So when the air conditioning


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comes on, it usually goes thump. They


00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:44.469
said it did more than thump. on Saturday


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morning. I


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went and I woke up went, "Oh,


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earthquake." And Judy went, "Yeah, sure.


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Really?" I said, "Yeah, I reckon it


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was." Cuz nothing else happened. Didn't


00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:55.430
feel any vibration. Okay, that's


00:04:55.440 --> 00:04:57.030
interesting. Yeah, you didn't feel it.


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Just the door did. Oh, well, we got a


00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.790
great bed. Just very quick proof. Paid a


00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.469
lot for it, but yeah, it worked. We


00:05:04.479 --> 00:05:07.029
didn't feel the earthquake, but um yeah,


00:05:07.039 --> 00:05:08.629
sure enough, next morning I thought I'd


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check and Geossciences Australia


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confirmed it. So five 5.3 which is one


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of the biggest ever recorded out here.


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Oh yes that's right. Yeah it is. So um


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one of my colleagues at the Australian


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Astronomical Observatory former


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Australian Astronomical Observatory on


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the Anglo Australian telescope. He is


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one of the telescope operators Andre


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Phillips uh he was sitting in the


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control chair for the telescope and he


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felt something as well. He felt the


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chair being sort of moved u as though


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somebody was shaking it from behind.


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Yeah, that's what it feels like. Yeah.


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Well, cuz I was in Newcastle earthquake


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and I'd done an overnight shift when it


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hit and it was 5.5


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and it felt to me like somebody just got


00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.909
the end of the bed and was just bouncing


00:05:57.919 --> 00:06:00.310
bouncing it up and down and it was much


00:06:00.320 --> 00:06:02.150
more violent than what we expect it


00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.950
would be. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Andre,


00:06:04.960 --> 00:06:06.950
interestingly, this same gentleman I was


00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:09.189
just talking about, he also runs um a


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very sensitive seismograph at home


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because he's quite interested in


00:06:12.919 --> 00:06:15.270
seismometry. Uh so, yes, I think he went


00:06:15.280 --> 00:06:17.189
home at the end of his night shift, had


00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.510
a look and sure enough, there was a 5.3


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or 5.2


00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:24.309
earthquake from Lingan. Yeah. Yeah. He


00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.070
would have felt more of it in Kabaraban


00:06:26.080 --> 00:06:29.909
than here. And I calculation because I


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looked at the clock immediately and it


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was 237


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and I know that was the exact time


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because it was an Apple Watch. So it was


00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.070
synchronized. Yeah. And I worked out


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that the vibration took 40 seconds to


00:06:43.039 --> 00:06:46.469
reach us. Okay. At approximately 300


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kilometers an hour. Yeah. Just round.


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Yes. Yes. Something like that. Yeah.


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Anyway, um, give or take because I


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don't, it wasn't exactly 236, but you


00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.230
know what I'm saying. Um, yeah. So,


00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:03.990
exciting. Exciting. Haven't been any


00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.070
aftershocks that I'm aware of, but um,


00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:07.589
there's a lot of tremors out here that


00:07:07.599 --> 00:07:09.670
you don't ever feel or notice because


00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.150
they're just so small, but um, nothing


00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:12.990
that


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big. We better get on with it, Fred. And


00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.629
our first story u from the cosmos or


00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.029
closer to home is a possible new dwarf


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planet uh in the extremities of our


00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:29.670
solar system. This is um really exciting


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uh if it holds true and it's sort of


00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:34.870
stacking up that way I think. So yes um


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this is relatively straightforward


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uh astrometry which is the measurement


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of celestial objects in space. their


00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:50.550
actual uh direction. Um and it's um


00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.550
comes from uh in information collected


00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:58.230
over quite a long period of time uh with


00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.070
um telescopes around the world. Um this


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so a lot of this discovery is due to


00:08:03.919 --> 00:08:06.230
archival data where you can look at


00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.469
images of particular bits of the sky and


00:08:08.479 --> 00:08:10.469
accurately work out the position of


00:08:10.479 --> 00:08:13.350
objects in those images. Um, it's


00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:15.110
actually what you do, Andrew, just as an


00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.350
aside here, uh, when a near-Earth


00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:21.270
asteroid is is detected. Uh, the first


00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.589
thing astronomers do is look back


00:08:23.599 --> 00:08:25.430
through archival data to see if there


00:08:25.440 --> 00:08:28.629
are any, uh, images, photographic images


00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.029
or electronically detected images that


00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:32.949
will show it because the longer you can


00:08:32.959 --> 00:08:34.709
observe something for, the more


00:08:34.719 --> 00:08:37.110
accurately you can deduce its orbit. And


00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.509
that is true with this object which


00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.350
turns out to be a TNO, a trans neptunian


00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.509
object. Um it's been uh studied by uh


00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:49.350
astrophysicists at the Institute for


00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.150
Advanced Study in Princeton, very very


00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:55.509
distinguished uh institution. Um and


00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.030
what they found uh is an object with the


00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:02.829
very unmemorable name of


00:09:02.839 --> 00:09:07.110
2017. Uh it is an uh an object a trans


00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:09.430
neptunian object in a very very


00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:15.030
elongated orbit. Um its nearest point to


00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:20.870
the solar system is I think it's 42


00:09:20.880 --> 00:09:24.070
uh thereabouts astronomical unit. Is


00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.509
that right? No. 44


00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:29.110
44.5. That's its closest point to the


00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.550
sun. What we call the perihelion.


00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:34.389
44.5 times that of the Earth's orbit. In


00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.590
other words, 44.5 astronomical units.


00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.630
But the staggering thing is that it's


00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:46.190
app helion uh the furthest point uh is


00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.430
uh now let me find the number. It's much


00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:53.269
much higher. You might have it 32. Uh


00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.990
it's it's um it's I think it's more than


00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:59.190
that. Um where are we? I think it's in


00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:04.110
the thousands. Uh it's uh very very


00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:08.389
distant. So when it was found, I beg


00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.630
you. Yeah. When it was found, it was


00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:15.670
about 90 astronomical units away. Uh and


00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:18.310
there are enough observations that it's


00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.030
sort of continuing. Oh, there it orbit


00:10:21.040 --> 00:10:24.870
1600. Yeah. 1600 astronomical units.


00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:28.949
That's its furthest. And um that means


00:10:28.959 --> 00:10:32.870
that uh it's only going to be visible to


00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:35.829
earthbased telescopes for a few% of its


00:10:35.839 --> 00:10:38.870
orbit when it's when it's at its nearest


00:10:38.880 --> 00:10:41.110
um point to Earth. They're actually


00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.430
saying, Fred, that it's going far enough


00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.870
out to be entering the Ort cloud. That's


00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:48.550
right. Part of the inner cloud, which


00:10:48.560 --> 00:10:50.310
makes it a very interesting object


00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:52.310
indeed. Sure, it does. um with an


00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.550
orbital period if I remember rightly of


00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:56.790
what is it 25,000 light years or


00:10:56.800 --> 00:10:59.350
something ridiculous like that. 25,000


00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.430
years to complete an orbit. Sorry,


00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.910
25,000 years. Not not 25,000 light


00:11:03.920 --> 00:11:06.310
years. Yeah. So it's it's a very very


00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.030
distant object. In fact, it's probably


00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:11.750
um apart from comets, uh it's probably


00:11:11.760 --> 00:11:13.829
one of the most distant objects ever


00:11:13.839 --> 00:11:17.590
discovered. Uh it's because at its


00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:19.430
nearest it's roughly the same distance


00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.670
from the sun as Pluto is, but at its


00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:23.509
furthest, as you've said, it's it's


00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.670
skimming the inner edge of the or cloud,


00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:28.310
that cloud of uh icy debris that we


00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.310
recognize as being the the source of


00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.710
comets, comets that drift in towards the


00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.069
inner solar system. Uh so a really


00:11:36.079 --> 00:11:39.190
remarkable um remarkable uh set of


00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.110
observations. It's been observed 19


00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.110
times. So, it's got a very high


00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.310
certainty in its orbit. Uh, but the the


00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.630
the quirky part of this, which you've


00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:53.509
already alluded to, is that um when the


00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.590
team the research team who've done this


00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:59.350
work actually looked at the simulations


00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:04.949
of uh the way the orbit of 2017


00:12:04.959 --> 00:12:09.430
uh behaves. uh they found that uh it's


00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.990
it's orbit is only stable and longterm


00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.470
without planet


00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:19.430
9. So if you have planet 9 in the


00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.230
equation then it gets thrown out within


00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.150
100 million years which means you know


00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:26.190
that's a short time in astronomical


00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.470
terms. So yeah, it's uh it's that if its


00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.750
existence is


00:12:32.760 --> 00:12:36.470
confirmed, then planet 9 can't exist.


00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:37.990
That's what they're saying. That is what


00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.629
they are saying. Yes. That it's this is


00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.509
uh a quote from the the media. It's one


00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.670
of the strongest pieces of evidence yet


00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:50.150
against the existence of planet 9. Um


00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:53.190
yeah, that's right. Uh it it it does


00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.750
suggest that there are more objects of


00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:57.509
the same kind. We haven't found them


00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:59.670
yet. Uh but yes, the figure I was


00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:02.629
looking for earlier, um it spends only


00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.590
1% of its time in orbit, near enough to


00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.629
be able to be detected from Earth


00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.710
because it's it's such a it's a


00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:12.310
relatively small object thought to be


00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.470
around 700 kilometers, which probably


00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:16.629
makes it a dwarf planet rather than a


00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.870
large asteroid. Uh and uh that's


00:13:20.880 --> 00:13:23.590
imagining that something that size can


00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.550
only be visible for 1% of its orbital


00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:28.230
period because the rest just takes it


00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.550
too far away. It gives you a good idea


00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:33.110
of just how elongated its orbit is.


00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:34.710
Yeah, we're lucky to have spotted it


00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:36.550
given the time frame that Well, that's


00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:39.030
right. Yes. uh cuz it'll drift away and


00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:42.550
will very soon be uh invisible to our


00:13:42.560 --> 00:13:45.110
planet. And it has a lot of weight to a


00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.110
theory we talked about some time ago


00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.710
from one scientist who said there is no


00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.590
planet 9. I think there's a whole bunch


00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.150
of stuff out there that's causing the


00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:58.949
same effect. And this sounds like one of


00:13:58.959 --> 00:14:01.670
those things. Yes, that's right. And and


00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:03.350
it's similar. There was a similar


00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.110
argument around the same time by another


00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.790
group of scientists, one of whom I


00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:09.269
actually spoke to in Canada a couple of


00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.189
years ago uh who said effectively that


00:14:13.199 --> 00:14:15.110
you know the evidence for planet 9 is


00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.590
based on I don't know it's probably a


00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.949
dozen or so um of these icy asteroids


00:14:20.959 --> 00:14:23.430
all of who's elongated orbits sort of


00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.069
line up in in the same way. And the


00:14:26.079 --> 00:14:28.470
suggestion that was being made by these


00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.590
other scientists is that actually we


00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.910
it's not so much that it's a selection


00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:35.670
effect. We just haven't found all the


00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:37.430
other ones that aren't aligned in the


00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:39.990
same way uh that would you know


00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.949
contradict the idea of planet 9. So um


00:14:42.959 --> 00:14:45.670
yes this object might be the poster


00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:49.110
child of the anti-Planet 9 lobby. Uh but


00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.389
it does seem to suggest that it does not


00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:54.870
um it planet 9 does not exist. And just


00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:58.790
to uh to um underline what we were


00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:00.389
saying earlier, it has actually been


00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.470
officially confirmed uh as an asteroid


00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.550
by the International Astronomical Union.


00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:09.430
So u it will no doubt get a name because


00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.150
once it's confirmed uh by the IAU then


00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:14.069
you can give it a name and it's an


00:15:14.079 --> 00:15:18.550
asteroid or dwarf planet. um as as I I


00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:22.790
mean a name like uh you know Pluto or or


00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:26.310
um Mak Mak or one of those names. But


00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:27.910
we're calling it a dwarf planet. That's


00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.590
that's right. Yeah. At 700 kilome I I


00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.590
don't think the IU makes a distinction


00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.710
when they when they actually confirm its


00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:38.870
orbit. They don't say anything about its


00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:42.550
size. uh be because that's dependent on


00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:44.069
but that that depends on measurements


00:15:44.079 --> 00:15:46.150
that are a lot more difficult to do. But


00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:47.910
once its orbit's been confirmed then it


00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:50.710
becomes an official object. Uh which


00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.150
could be either a dwarf planet or an


00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:54.870
asteroid. Okay. All right. So the jury


00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:57.749
might still be out for a bit but um yes


00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.310
it's there and it looks like that's put


00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.389
the kaosh on planet nine. More to come


00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.710
on that one I am sure. Sure there is.


00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.629
Yes. Now, if you'd like to read all


00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.389
about it, you can do that at


00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:13.590
sciencealert.com. This is Spacenuts.


00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.749
Andrew Dunley here with Professor Fred


00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.430
Watson. Now, let's take a quick break


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details in our show notes. Now back to


00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:04.110
Space


00:19:04.120 --> 00:19:07.909
Nuts and I feel Space Nuts. Let's move


00:19:07.919 --> 00:19:10.470
on to our next story. Fred, I find this


00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.150
one fascinating for for one reason. This


00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.590
is going to sound strange. I've never


00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:18.390
heard of this place. Oh, really? I heard


00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.430
of it. Um, it's a moon of Saturn known


00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.710
as Yapotus. Now, when I say I've never


00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.470
heard of it, when I saw a picture, I


00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.070
went, "Oh, yeah. I know I've seen that


00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:31.270
picture before." Yes. Because it's


00:19:31.280 --> 00:19:33.510
unique. That's why that's why this plan


00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:36.630
uh this moon is so very interesting. Uh


00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.310
because questions are still being asked


00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:40.950
as to how it looks the way it does. It's


00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.990
a strange place and it's getting um a


00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.789
fair bit of attention in social media at


00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.909
the moment um amongst other things but


00:19:49.919 --> 00:19:52.310
uh yes it's back in the news. It is back


00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:54.150
in the news. I think it is really as you


00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:55.830
say I think it really is social media


00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:59.510
that stirred this up. Um we so you know


00:19:59.520 --> 00:20:03.029
until 2017 when the spacecraft plunged


00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.710
into the atmosphere of uh Saturn, we


00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.029
were absolutely


00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.070
um swamped by marvelous photographs of


00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:14.470
the moons of Saturn from the Cassini


00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.549
spacecraft. Uh told us more about the


00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.789
moons of Saturn than we could ever have


00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.070
guessed that we'd learn. uh and and I


00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:25.270
think um so Yapatus was certainly very


00:20:25.280 --> 00:20:26.950
much in the headlines then because it is


00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.390
such a peculiar world but it it sort of


00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.549
because so many of the questions don't


00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.470
really have proper answers uh


00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.950
that's allowed it to sort of fade from


00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.510
uh from the attention of planetary


00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:45.350
scientists but it's been spotted by I


00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:47.909
mean spotted in the media by social


00:20:47.919 --> 00:20:50.710
social media people who have really


00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.909
raised it once again uh um you know as


00:20:53.919 --> 00:20:55.990
as a place of great interest and maybe


00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.710
that will encourage some of the uh


00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.470
planetary scientists who have certainly


00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.190
had an interest in Yapitus uh to go back


00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.990
to some of the Cassini data maybe using


00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.789
you know more modern AI methods to


00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.350
analyze it and actually check out what


00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:15.669
is going on there. Yeah. Um, so it's uh


00:21:15.679 --> 00:21:18.070
the first thing you'd find out about


00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:21.190
Yapotus and it was when it was


00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.430
discovered back in the 17th century. uh


00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.110
Gavanni Cassini, that great observer who


00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:30.950
discovered the Cassini division, hence


00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.990
the name,


00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.870
um made the discovery that this this


00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.830
little world orbiting Saturn


00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:43.029
uh is peculiar because one side of it


00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.510
was very much darker than the other. I


00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:47.029
remember actually at the start of my


00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.190
career uh back in the early 1970s when I


00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.750
was working at Nordic Almanac office of


00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:55.510
the Royal Greenwich Observatory with one


00:21:55.520 --> 00:21:57.669
of my colleagues there Andy Sinclair was


00:21:57.679 --> 00:21:59.750
a specialist on Yapotus and he kept


00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:02.470
telling me it was a very peculiar world


00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.549
but it was only when Cassini went flew


00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.549
by a few decades later that we realized


00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.510
just how peculiar it is. So, it is


00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:13.110
covered in craters. Uh, but it's got


00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:15.750
this dark side which just looks as


00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.990
though it's been spattered with soot.


00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.909
Looks as though, you know, somebody's


00:22:19.919 --> 00:22:22.549
put a pile of soot out there and and


00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.909
Yapotus has run into it. Uh, and you've


00:22:25.919 --> 00:22:28.310
so you've got this very dark face to it


00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:30.470
contrasting with a very highly


00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:34.630
reflective surface. Uh, now that's


00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.510
peculiar in itself because it's only on


00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:39.590
one side and that's the forward- facing


00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:42.789
side. Yepus goes around Saturn tidily


00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.110
locked. Uh, so that it always keeps the


00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:46.789
same face to Saturn. That means there's


00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.950
always a a forward side and a backward


00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.789
side, but this stuff's on the forward


00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:52.710
side. If I'm I'm actually remembering


00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.230
from my uh talks on Cassini back in the


00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.990
day. I haven't done one of those for


00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.110
nearly a decade. But anyway, um, uh,


00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:03.750
that's the one peculiar thing about it.


00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:06.789
But the other one is even weirder. And


00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.430
this is this equatorial ridge, a ridge


00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.350
that goes all the way around it. It's


00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:14.750
something like 10 kilometers high uh, or


00:23:14.760 --> 00:23:17.430
thereabouts. It's a line of mountains


00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.390
effectively, but it's right along the


00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.470
the equator of Yapotus. It reminds me of


00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.149
a walnut.


00:23:26.159 --> 00:23:28.070
It is. That's right. used to think it


00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:30.789
looked like a walnut. Exactly that. Uh


00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.390
and so I mean there's various theories


00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.390
as to how it got there and the one that


00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:41.350
I thought was the most common one uh was


00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:44.310
that uh it was caused by the contraction


00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:47.110
of the crust of Yapotus. That makes


00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:51.350
sense. Um the you know that if as


00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.230
Yapitus cooled after its creation uh


00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.390
it's rotating on its axis uh the crust


00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:01.110
contracts and so you get a bulge which


00:24:01.120 --> 00:24:03.990
naturally forms around the equator of


00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.270
rotation right angles to the axis of


00:24:06.280 --> 00:24:09.630
rotation but um I think other


00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:13.510
hypotheses have have been put forward.


00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:17.350
One is that perhaps there was a ring


00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:20.310
system around Yapotus that actually


00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:23.029
collapsed and fell onto the surface and


00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.990
generated the ring of mountains. Uh,


00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.430
another one is possibly icy material


00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:31.590
coming out from beneath the surface of


00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:34.950
Yapitus. We we know that um many of the


00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.590
moons of the um of those outer planets


00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:42.470
are have got a ice or perhaps icy slush


00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:47.029
underneath the surface um because of the


00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.789
fact that they're what we call ice


00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.510
worlds with a with a central rocky core,


00:24:51.520 --> 00:24:54.149
a liquid ocean above it which may be


00:24:54.159 --> 00:24:56.549
quite slushy uh and then a crust of


00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:58.870
solid ice on top of that. That could be


00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:00.630
the construction. Once again, if you've


00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.149
got stuff coming up from beneath the


00:25:02.159 --> 00:25:04.870
surface and the object is spinning fast


00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.230
enough, uh then you will get uh perhaps


00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.950
a ring of mountains like we see on the


00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.710
oppos um not none of which come from the


00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.789
original idea which was contraction. So


00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.830
I'm very interested to know where the


00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:22.950
scientific uh you know the scientific um


00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.590
uh consensus is going on this little


00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:27.750
world. And uh it's great that it's it's


00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:29.510
cropped up again. It's welled up again


00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:31.590
into the public consciousness. It has.


00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:34.149
Yeah. Another theory I read was just a


00:25:34.159 --> 00:25:37.190
high spin rate at some stage. Yes. Yeah.


00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.669
That would cause a bulge rather than a


00:25:39.679 --> 00:25:42.029
mountain range. I would I would


00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.590
expect well you normally that causes a


00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:48.149
planet to flatten slightly to so that


00:25:48.159 --> 00:25:51.430
it's um it's a yes. It's a bulge. It's


00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:53.510
the Earth's shape is that what we call


00:25:53.520 --> 00:25:56.310
an oblate spheroid. Saturn itself


00:25:56.320 --> 00:25:58.230
actually is the most extreme example in


00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.710
the solar system because it's um it's


00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.669
the diameter to between the poles is


00:26:03.679 --> 00:26:05.430
significantly less than the diameter


00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.430
across the equator. It's um and it's


00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.710
this kind of oval shape in


00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.789
cross-section. Um so that that's that's


00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:14.310
what you'd expect from something


00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.990
rotating quickly. Not a a welldefined


00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.710
ridge of mountains like we see on


00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:24.549
Yapotus. Quite an amazing world. Another


00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:27.110
weird factor I suppose is its proximity


00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:28.789
to Saturn. It's actually a long way


00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.190
away. Very far. Yes, that's right. It's


00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.070
um what is it? 3.2


00:26:33.080 --> 00:26:35.669
million bill kilometers or thereabouts.


00:26:35.679 --> 00:26:38.630
It's a long long way. 3.22 million


00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.750
kilometers from Saturn. Could the could


00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:43.990
be that could the dark face be some sort


00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.470
of reaction with Saturn radiation or


00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:49.269
something like that? It's um the


00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:52.070
thinking back in the Cassini era and I


00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:54.549
suspect it's probably similar is that it


00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.390
consists of organic chemicals um that


00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.230
formed this kind of soot. I think uh


00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.669
sins might have been in um invoked as


00:27:05.679 --> 00:27:07.830
well. These are particular organic


00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:10.549
chemicals that we know coat a lot of the


00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.310
outer worlds because they're they're


00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:14.470
generated by I think the impact of


00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.029
cosmic rays on on material. Um but it's


00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.750
the peculiar thing is that it's only on


00:27:21.760 --> 00:27:23.269
one side. It looks as though it's just


00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:24.710
kind of run into something that


00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:26.549
splattered all over the front of it.


00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.230
It's got that impression. Yeah. Somebody


00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.870
spilt the paint. Just what it looks


00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.950
like. That's why really odd. Yeah. Yeah,


00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:34.590
if you'd like to take a look at it, uh,


00:27:34.600 --> 00:27:37.029
Yapotus is all over the internet, lots


00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.630
of social media, but there's a great


00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.430
article at daily galaxy.com. Worth


00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.830
reading, uh, on Yapodus, which starts


00:27:43.840 --> 00:27:48.269
with an I. It's spelled, uh, I a P t us.


00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:50.950
Yepus. This is Space Nuts with Andrew


00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:56.230
Dunley and Fred Watson.


00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.389
Also, Space Nuts. Our final story today,


00:28:00.399 --> 00:28:04.070
Fred, uh, takes us to the, uh, very rare


00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:06.590
area of black hole


00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:09.990
discussion. Um, we get so many questions


00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.710
on this. I mean, it's it's unbelievable.


00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.549
In fact, I I think there was a question


00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.149
popping up about black holes um, in our


00:28:18.159 --> 00:28:20.310
next episode, as a matter of fact. But


00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:22.630
and and I think the reason is quite


00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.110
simple. people just want to understand


00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:28.830
them and there's so much we don't know.


00:28:28.840 --> 00:28:32.710
Um th this particular story focuses on


00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.710
primordial black holes and the


00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.710
possibility that they may well be


00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:39.470
responsible for today's dark


00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.510
matter. Um please


00:28:42.520 --> 00:28:45.830
explain. Well, yeah, this is a piece of


00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:50.230
theoretical research um which uh is good


00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.470
because you need it. Um uh it's uh uh


00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.710
this is research by Japanese uh


00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.630
scientists uh in Tokyo and elsewhere. Uh


00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:05.830
and what you have got here is people who


00:29:05.840 --> 00:29:09.190
are looking sort of almost with new eyes


00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.870
if I can put it that way at the dark


00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:15.269
matter problem because um dark matter is


00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.430
a big problem. We've got this stuff that


00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:19.269
seems to have a gravitational hold on


00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.990
galaxies so that they don't fly apart.


00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.190
Um, and a gravitational hold on galaxy


00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.190
clusters so they don't fly apart as


00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.990
well. Uh, and yet we can't detect it. We


00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.549
cannot detect it in any way other than


00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.029
by its gravitational pull. Yeah. We've


00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.590
never captured any of it or anything


00:29:37.600 --> 00:29:40.149
like that. No, that's right. So there's


00:29:40.159 --> 00:29:42.950
the that you know what what what have we


00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.190
got to go on? um not very much uh in


00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:51.549
terms of our understanding. Uh


00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.950
however, there was quite early on in the


00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.389
black in the dark matter story. Uh a


00:29:58.399 --> 00:30:01.590
number of experiments carried out on on


00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:03.510
big telescopes. One of which was


00:30:03.520 --> 00:30:06.149
actually here in Australia, a very


00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:08.870
historic telescope called the 50-in at


00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.029
Mount Stromlo, previously known as the


00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.710
the Great Melbourne Telescope because


00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:14.470
it's very old, but it had been


00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:16.710
modernized with new equipment. And they


00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.510
did an experiment which was called


00:30:18.520 --> 00:30:23.029
Macho. And it was uh designed to look


00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.070
for the gravitational lensing effect of


00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:30.950
large objects in the in the universe


00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:32.710
basically in the vicinity of our galaxy.


00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.710
And by large objects I mean things that


00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.590
aren't subatomic particles. So I mean


00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:41.389
things like uh orphaned planets, dead


00:30:41.399 --> 00:30:44.710
stars or black holes. And match was


00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:46.549
actually an acronym for massive compact


00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:51.750
halo objects. Now, they didn't uh see as


00:30:51.760 --> 00:30:54.830
many of these gravitational lensing


00:30:54.840 --> 00:30:56.990
phenomena.


00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.590
Uh, in other words, the space around one


00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:01.110
of these objects being bent, so it


00:31:01.120 --> 00:31:03.190
magnifies an object behind it. They


00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.070
didn't see any uh in numbers that were


00:31:06.080 --> 00:31:09.830
sufficient to make matchos the the


00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:13.510
missing dark matter. And so that was in


00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:17.110
the '9s that really ruled out things


00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:20.230
like black holes as being the uh the


00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.710
culprits for dark matter. And so that's


00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.190
when we were um you know our attention


00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.510
was shifted to the idea that dark matter


00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:29.990
is actually some species of subatomic


00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.310
particles perhaps many species but ones


00:31:32.320 --> 00:31:33.909
that don't interact in any way with


00:31:33.919 --> 00:31:35.510
normal matter and that's where things


00:31:35.520 --> 00:31:38.230
remain today. So it's interesting to


00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.630
find a paper which kind of goes back to


00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.549
an older idea that maybe black holes


00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.509
actually do contribute to the dark


00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.350
matter. Um and the reason why I think


00:31:49.360 --> 00:31:51.110
this paper has been published is that


00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:53.590
there is a slightly new twist to it


00:31:53.600 --> 00:31:57.509
because these are um the postulate is


00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.590
that these are primordial black holes.


00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:02.070
Black holes which were created at the


00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:04.149
same time as the universe was. In other


00:32:04.159 --> 00:32:06.549
words, during or immediately after the


00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:07.310
Big


00:32:07.320 --> 00:32:12.990
Bang. Um, so that you you basically


00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.789
um find these objects potentially. We


00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.789
we've never observed a primordial black


00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:20.389
hole. People just kind of guess that


00:32:20.399 --> 00:32:23.509
they are there. And we do see black


00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:25.470
holes that that


00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.389
that maybe fall within the mass range of


00:32:28.399 --> 00:32:31.669
a primordial black hole. But uh we we


00:32:31.679 --> 00:32:34.630
don't actually know that they exist. But


00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.870
um the to come to the point, I'm not


00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.110
being very clear here. What's what has


00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:42.549
actually uh led to this research is that


00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:46.149
the lifetime of a black hole is possibly


00:32:46.159 --> 00:32:49.350
much much longer than Hawking predicted


00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:51.430
that these primordial black holes would


00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.990
la last. He gave them because they were


00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.269
smaller, he gave them a relatively short


00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:58.549
lifetime. Black holes we know do


00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.549
evaporate because they release Hawking


00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.950
radiation, this quantum uh mechanics


00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.990
phenomena. uh and um that the the idea


00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.830
even though that is a very very slow


00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:11.590
process. If you've got these sort of


00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:14.950
mini black holes that were formed in the


00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:16.789
origin of the universe, our thinking was


00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.870
that they might all have evaporated by


00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.350
now. And that's where this new research


00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:23.029
comes in because they are proposing a


00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:26.310
new mechanism uh which has got an


00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:30.430
interesting name. It is uh something


00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:33.669
called I've lost the name of it. Um it's


00:33:33.679 --> 00:33:36.070
a basically a Yes. The memory burden


00:33:36.080 --> 00:33:39.190
effect. Work that one out. Yeah.


00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:42.470
The memory burden effect uh suggests


00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:47.430
that um the the the information stored


00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:48.950
if I can put it that way in the black


00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.470
hole actually stabilizes it and keeps it


00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.190
uh from decaying. So that the to to cut


00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:58.789
to the quick uh the idea is that these


00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.870
primordial black holes might last a lot


00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.190
longer than Hawking predicted they would


00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:05.830
and perhaps they are after all the


00:34:05.840 --> 00:34:09.190
missing dark matter. Now that still has


00:34:09.200 --> 00:34:11.270
to account for why we didn't detect them


00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.109
by gravitational lensing during the


00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.589
Macho experiment and similar experiments


00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.510
carried out elsewhere in the world but


00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:20.149
it is an interesting possibility. Yes.


00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.510
Yes. Um


00:34:23.520 --> 00:34:25.430
It's probably the best theory we've got,


00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:28.190
I suppose, at the moment.


00:34:28.200 --> 00:34:31.750
Um, yeah, I'm not sure that it is. Oh,


00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:36.589
okay. Um, I think, you know, I I


00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.669
I because we don't even know whether


00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:42.470
primordial black holes actually exist.


00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.869
Um, we don't know that these subatomic


00:34:44.879 --> 00:34:48.069
particles exist either. Uh but it seems


00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:51.510
to me that the bill is better fitted by


00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:54.389
what black holes might be uh sorry by


00:34:54.399 --> 00:34:57.510
what dark matter might be by the


00:34:57.520 --> 00:35:00.390
subatomic particles rather than pime


00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:02.710
primordial black holes. Well, they won't


00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:04.310
be letting you do a peer review, will


00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.550
they? They won't. No, that's being I've


00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:08.630
made my mind up already. You see, but we


00:35:08.640 --> 00:35:09.910
don't know what they are. What what you


00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.710
know, are they neutralos? Are they


00:35:12.720 --> 00:35:14.990
wimps? weakly interacting massive


00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.430
particles, sterile neutrinos. There's


00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.630
all kinds of things that have been


00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:21.510
proposed for these uh subatomic


00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:23.109
particles, but none have yet been


00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:26.069
detected. Yeah. All right. Interesting.


00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:28.230
Uh I'm sure that will spawn no questions


00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:31.430
whatsoever from our audience.


00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:32.950
Heidi will have to deal with him next


00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:35.430
time. Yes, he will. Yes, she will


00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.069
indeed. Uh so, if you'd like to chase


00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.550
that up, uh there's a great article uh


00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:44.710
on fizz.org. phys.org. Detecting the


00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:46.630
primordial black holes that could be


00:35:46.640 --> 00:35:49.990
today's dark matter. Fred thinks not.


00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.829
But um that's what science is about,


00:35:51.839 --> 00:35:54.470
tossing these ideas around. And that


00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.470
brings us to the end of yet another


00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.950
episode of Space Nuts. Thanks, Fred.


00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.790
It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to


00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.390
talk and I look forward to our next


00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.069
time. Indeed. And uh thanks to Hugh in


00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.589
the studio who couldn't be with us


00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:09.750
today. He found himself a primordial


00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.950
black hole and we've not seen him seen


00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.710
seen him since. Apparently he loves


00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:19.190
spaghetti. Uh me Andrew Dunley. Thanks


00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:21.030
for your company. Catch you on the next


00:36:21.040 --> 00:36:23.750
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye. Space


00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.069
nuts. You'll be listening to the Space


00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.790
Nuts podcast


00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.750
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,


00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.390
iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast


00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.230
player. You can also stream on demand at


00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:39.670
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00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:44.119
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