Dust Devils, Cosmic Conundrums & the Quest to Clean Space Junk | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights...

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Language: en

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welcome back to another exciting episode


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of Space Nuts the podcast that is


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absolutely out of this world I am your


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host today Heidi Compo filling in for


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the regular Andrew Dunley And here we


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have with us Professor Fred Watson


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astronomer at large 15 seconds Guidance


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is internal 10 9 ignition sequence start


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Space nets 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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Space nuts Astronauts report It feels


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good


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Hi Fred How are you doing today Um I'm


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well thanks and lovely to see you again


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And uh we have a beautiful sunny morning


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here in Sydney where I'm recording at


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the moment You're at the other end of


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the world at the other end of the day


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Bay Center Houston It's evening It's


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been quite windy here but the weather's


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been nice It's been warm but not too


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warm Um and this is going to be this is


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going to be a nice month I think


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springtime in Houston is always just


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really fantastic And speaking of this


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month I wanted to share with you and our


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other listeners an exciting event that


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is happening here in Space Center


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Houston Well yeah sorry it will be at


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Space Center Houston but it's happening


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in Houston in general is the Spaceflight


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Human Optimization and Performance


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Summit So that will be happening at the


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end of the month and they are going to


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have all kinds of fantastic speakers


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from NASA and other private


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organizations They're giving educational


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talks on the effects of spaceflight on


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the human body And it is such a


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fantastic opportunity to network to hear


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from people who are really at the


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cutting edge of science and to just kind


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of collaborate with some really


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brilliant people It's uh fun to


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sometimes be in those places where you


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are pretty confident that you're not the


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smartest person in the room


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I've spent my whole life feeling that


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honestly


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Well I feel like that sometimes when I'm


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looking at your books and whatnot So


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we've got some pretty fun articles we're


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looking at today Uh we've got some


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things about stuff going on on Mars


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There's articles about space junk and


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galaxy models And I wanted to start this


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off by asking you Fred have you ever


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been to Arizona Oh yes Um quite often Uh


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because the uh for a long time the


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center of the the world's a astronomy


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instrument development


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um uh what's the word for it Um thrust


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that's a good word the center of the


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world's astronomy instrument development


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thrust was in Tucson Uh and of course


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the Kit Peak uh National Observatory is


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not very far from Tucson Uh so I spent


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many many weeks there on and off Uh and


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the other thing that uh Tucson's famous


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for in that sense and the two of course


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are absolutely interled is that's where


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the the uh the basically the dark sky


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movement started the idea that we can do


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something about light pollution Uh


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because it was at that time the impact


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was mostly on astronomers but we now


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know that it's not just astronomers who


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are impacted by bad light and light


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pollution It's the the whole natural


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world and indeed ourselves Uh so that


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has moved on since the early 1980s when


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it all got going in uh in Tucson Arizona


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Uh and yes while I was in Tucson I


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explored most of the rest of Arizona as


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well Yeah Excellent Well yeah that's


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good We're kind of building on what we


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talked about last week with the


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pollution but I was going to say if


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you've been to Arizona well I guess in


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Sydney Australia too you've definitely


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seen some dust storms right Yeah Yeah


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that's right And it absolutely I know


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where this is going


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Do you get uh do you get haboos in in in


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Australia at all You know is that the


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name for what we call dust devils Oh so


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the haboos are the really really big


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ones I was living in Arizona If you guys


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want to Google the 2010 haboo in Phoenix


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Arizona Haboo It's very phonetic H U B O


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O B I believe or H A Um but it is a


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Middle Eastern word because these


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normally happen in the Middle East and


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with things like if you've seen the


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movie Halgo with the horse horses


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running uh things like that So if you


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see the 2010 HABO Arizona pictures


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you'll see what I'm talking about Quite


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crazy But yeah dust is something that


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you're going to be familiar with in


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places like Australia and Arizona But


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people may not be as familiar with some


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of the dust storms on Mars which you are


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so smart That's exactly where we were


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going is they did see some dust devil


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activity on Mars And I think that's kind


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of cool and exciting Can you tell us a


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little bit about what's going on with


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that And and it's for the this is a it's


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a topic I I really love Um and it's


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because uh you've put your finger on it


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This is something we're familiar with


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here Not so not in Sydney certainly but


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uh in the western plains of New South


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Wales and I lived in that region for 25


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years it was very common to see these uh


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pillars of dust Is that what you mean by


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a haboo Is it very much a you know how


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does it relate to a to a tornado Boobs


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are more much more extreme It's an


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extreme dust storm that's more like a


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wall of sand coming out you So if you


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think of interstellar with the wave of


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water it's like that but with sand We we


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get that in Australia too uh whether you


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know the top soil will blow off in one


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region and you will literally get a wall


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of of of dust brown dust uh which


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sometimes gives rise to the most


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spectacular photographs Uh and if the


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dust you know penetrates far enough it


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does actually reach the coast There have


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been occasions of that sort of dust


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storm in Sydney uh the um the the the


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whole color of the landscape changes Not


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just because it's covered in dust but


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because the atmosphere filters out you


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know all the all the the the blue light


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and you get this


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reddish ethereal glow which is in many


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ways ethereal is probably the wrong word


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It's it's actually uh almost apocalyptic


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It feels you know that that you've got


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this wall of dust and the and the colors


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afterwards the cover uh the um the


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peculiar colors But um what I was going


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to talk about today though are what are


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usually known as dust devils which are


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quite small areas of dust and it's where


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you get a little whirlwind that picks up


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a column of dust uh and moves it along


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the landscape So you see these moving


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columns uh of of basically dust


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Sometimes there's bits of debris being


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circulated around It's not a tornado Uh


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but uh it's you know the sort of perhaps


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the poor relative of a tornado Uh we do


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get them in Western New South Wales and


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I've seen a lot there but uh I was


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surprised It goes back actually this


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story to uh probably about 2003 or four


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in the early days of the new generation


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of Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity uh


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were the two that really sort of put


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Mars rovers on the map There were other


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ones before that but Spirit and


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Opportunity gave us some stunning images


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of the planet surface uh and uh among


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them uh were images from Spirit I think


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taken from the top of uh a mountain


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range um which uh was basically on the


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edge of a of a crater actually it might


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have been Curiosity and I should have


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checked that no I think it's spirit uh


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Gusev crater I think was its name if I


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remember rightly lovely images across


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the crater with little movie clips of


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these dust devils um going across it


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which are relative relatively common on


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Mars it turns out and in fact they were


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observed actually by the Viking orbiter


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back in 1976 So uh the the the


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spacecraft happened to be looking down


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at a region where one of these uh was


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happening They're different from earthly


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ones in first of all in the sense that


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because the atmosphere on Mars is so dry


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it's virtually zero humidity That means


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that static electricity can build up and


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so you often get flashes of lightning in


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the base of Martian dust


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devils and um yeah little little sparks


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of lightning caused by the static


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electricity buildup And the other thing


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is they're much taller than the ones we


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find here on Earth The biggest one I


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ever saw in New South Wales here in


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Australia uh probably had a height of


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about 500 meters half a kilometer So


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what's that sort of you know um about


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about a third of a mile basically uh and


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that's you know that was pretty


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significant Um on Mars they get up to 8


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kilometers uh which is like 5 miles and


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I guess that's partly due to the fact


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that the dust is very very fine and also


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uh the fact that Mars of course only has


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a third of the gravity that we have here


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on planet Earth Um and just a quick


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aside um the they're technically known


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as dust devils Uh I think that's the


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correct term It's different from a haboo


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A haboo is a wall of dust and that's


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something we also get But in uh most of


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Australia they have a a First Nations


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name an Aboriginal name They're called


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willy-willies Uh and a willy-willy is a


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is a is a you know little dust storm


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that's going past on the horizon


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Um one other little factoid about the


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Martian ones in particular is that with


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uh both Spirit and Opportunity which


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relied for their power on solar panels


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unlike Curiosity and Perseverance which


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have got thermmoelectric uh nuclear


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generators


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uh the the the dust panel the sorry the


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solar panels tended to get just covered


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by dust dust that is you know present on


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Mars Mars is a very very dusty planet So


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as you as you roam around the surface


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you're kicking up dust with the space


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with the rover's wheels and that dust


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eventually lands on the solar panels I'm


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going to have to clear my throat Excuse


00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.949
me one minute Yeah Yes


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There we go I hope that uh Oh I don't


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think I don't think I muted that That's


00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:00.710
okay We can edit that out


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That was meant to be muted out And I'm


00:11:02.560 --> 00:11:04.150
sorry I did Sorry Hugh that probably


00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:06.710
went right in your ears Uh as I can see


00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.630
from Heidi's face it went in hers as


00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:12.630
well Um just just to to mention though


00:11:12.640 --> 00:11:15.910
that the the the solar panels themselves


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were cleared unlike my throat by dust


00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:21.030
devils They were actually cleared when


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these things passed over and swept the


00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.590
dust off the solar panels So Curiosity


00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:29.150
in particular which was in a um sorry


00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:32.949
opportunity uh was in a dusty place uh


00:11:32.959 --> 00:11:35.590
that um that kept you know the power


00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.750
kept dropping and kept re reappearing


00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:39.509
again because of these dust devils Quite


00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.190
quite extraordinary And that's


00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.269
definitely going to be a concern when


00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:45.990
we're trying to you know get humanity to


00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.230
set up a colony on this planet I'm just


00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:49.990
thinking of the movie The Martian as


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cliche as it is that was the big problem


00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.069
that got him stuck there to begin with


00:11:54.079 --> 00:11:56.630
was that big dust storm So I guess that


00:11:56.640 --> 00:11:58.630
was uh a bit scientifically accurate


00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:01.750
when they put that into that movie Inde


00:12:01.760 --> 00:12:04.230
that's right the dust storm was um we


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now know Martian dust is is toxic as


00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.269
well in the sense that if it gets into


00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.590
your lungs it does quite a lot of damage


00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.030
So um so in my view not a place to


00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:18.710
colonize but that's my view Is the dust


00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:20.629
similar to the moon Regalith where it's


00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.949
also kind of sticky Yes I think it's a


00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:25.829
bit like that Um okay And probably for


00:12:25.839 --> 00:12:27.590
the same sort of reason Mars has such a


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thin atmosphere


00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.310
uh that the erosion processes originally


00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.389
erosion took place with wind and water


00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.310
like like it did here on Earth because


00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:38.710
of the fact that Mars had a had a warm


00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.590
and wet climate Um the uh the the uh


00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.550
thinness of the atmosphere uh means that


00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:48.790
you've got a much higher level of


00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:51.190
bombardment by subatomic particles from


00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.030
the sun and that's what gives you the


00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:55.590
sharp pointy edges of dust particles on


00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.430
the moon Now the moon's nearer to the


00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.069
sun than Mars is but I think still the


00:13:00.079 --> 00:13:01.829
same mechanism occurs that you've got


00:13:01.839 --> 00:13:04.069
bombardment which which actually fur


00:13:04.079 --> 00:13:06.069
further breaks down the further breaks


00:13:06.079 --> 00:13:09.990
down the the dust Well if uh if if we do


00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.870
end up going to Mars and we are


00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:15.190
successful with our endeavors there we


00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.430
can film Twister 3 with Glenn Powell


00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:23.750
doing some twisters on Mars


00:13:23.760 --> 00:13:27.750
Also space nuts to uh to uh get through


00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:29.509
the atmosphere It seems like there's


00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:30.870
just more and more issues with our


00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:32.790
atmosphere and all the space junk that's


00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:34.949
up there And I even just saw on I don't


00:13:34.959 --> 00:13:36.949
know if it was Prime or Netflix whatever


00:13:36.959 --> 00:13:38.470
streaming service I was on the other


00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.949
night there's a movie there's a there's


00:13:40.959 --> 00:13:44.230
a movie out about Space Jock And in this


00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.190
sci-fi movie they have people who work


00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.829
in in orbit constantly clearing space


00:13:49.839 --> 00:13:52.949
debris But that might not be something


00:13:52.959 --> 00:13:55.509
that's even a worry because it looks


00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:57.829
like there's a new technology that can


00:13:57.839 --> 00:13:59.590
help us with some of this space debris


00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.750
and junk in our orbit


00:14:01.760 --> 00:14:05.269
Uh absolutely that uh I mean this is you


00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.230
know one of the major problems of our


00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.750
era um that the potential for space junk


00:14:11.760 --> 00:14:14.150
It's uh space junk already exists


00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:17.030
There's a lot of stuff up there uh that


00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:20.150
is now redundant and quite harmful given


00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:22.069
that the minimal orbital speed that


00:14:22.079 --> 00:14:24.629
you're going at is about 8 kilometers/s


00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.069
about 5 miles per second Uh so um


00:14:28.079 --> 00:14:30.069
everything is charging around at very


00:14:30.079 --> 00:14:32.550
high speeds and as you will well know


00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:35.189
even a fleck of paint can take a chip


00:14:35.199 --> 00:14:36.949
out of the window of a space shuttle


00:14:36.959 --> 00:14:39.910
That very well-known phenomenon uh from


00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:44.590
a few decades ago actually uh that so


00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:46.629
there's at the moment there are just


00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:49.910
over 11,000 active spacecraft in orbit


00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:51.189
around the earth Most of them are


00:14:51.199 --> 00:14:54.550
Starlink satellites but when you look at


00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:56.550
the debris that is actually tracked


00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:59.430
stuff that is redundant I don't have the


00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:00.949
exact figure now but it's well over


00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:05.910
30,000 items bigger than uh 4 in sorry


00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:09.990
four yes 4 in um 100 millm 10 cm And


00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.870
then when you look at smaller stuff


00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:14.550
you're in the millions You're really in


00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:16.230
the millions of bits of debris and it's


00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.430
all damaging Uh and that the main


00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.829
problem is that as soon as you get a


00:15:21.839 --> 00:15:23.910
collision between two bits of this stuff


00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:27.110
especially if it's sizable in any way uh


00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.949
then you will get more debris being


00:15:29.959 --> 00:15:33.590
created and that increases the risk and


00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:34.790
that can lead to what's called the


00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:37.110
Kesler syndrome where uh everything's


00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.030
crashing into everything else and you


00:15:39.040 --> 00:15:41.430
suddenly lose access to space So it's a


00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.230
real problem and one that needs uh


00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.750
attention and indeed is getting


00:15:45.760 --> 00:15:47.509
attention from the world's technologists


00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.110
I just saw a tail walk through the


00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.670
picture there uh behind you Little


00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:53.990
little dog Speaking of speaking of uh


00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.990
little problems Yes


00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.269
Always on the parallel But yeah I mean


00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:02.790
this is super interesting because it's


00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:05.910
like every I mean almost every something


00:16:05.920 --> 00:16:07.910
going wrong in space movie starts with


00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.150
this So it's well known from the


00:16:10.160 --> 00:16:13.350
scientists down to the creatives And so


00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.310
it looks like this um this this uh what


00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.990
do they call them The bold new weapon


00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.790
against space junk It looks like Percy P


00:16:20.800 --> 00:16:24.470
E R S E I space Yep that's right Um is a


00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.509
startup that's helping with these issues


00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:29.670
Yes that's right So um there is a


00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:31.990
backstory to this in that there's been


00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.110
several experiments carried out by both


00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.310
private um companies and things you know


00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.230
bodies like the European Space Agency to


00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.629
try and see how you could clean up space


00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.590
and mostly it involves um something like


00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.910
well one of them is uh sending up a


00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:50.710
spacecraft that uh essentially rendevous


00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:52.870
with a a satellite that's now redundant


00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:54.949
whether it's a rocket body or or a you


00:16:54.959 --> 00:16:56.389
know a communication satellite something


00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.710
that switched off and is now head uh but


00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.949
is a risk because it's up there Uh and


00:17:00.959 --> 00:17:02.949
if you can then put a throw a grappling


00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:04.870
iron at it you know going back to the


00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:06.390
technology that was used in the Middle


00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.630
Ages uh catch hold of it uh with your


00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.870
hydraulically propelled grappling iron


00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.230
or whatever it is uh you then uh can


00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.350
capture it and uh if you have a a a


00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:22.150
satellite that now has hold of this u


00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.189
maverick object you can basically apply


00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:27.990
braking rockets and make it re-enter so


00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.070
that it burns up and is no longer a


00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:32.789
problem for collisions But that's a


00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:34.630
difficult that's quite a tricky problem


00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.549
and it needs you know spacecraft


00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:38.150
equipped with quite large amounts of


00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.029
fuel to do that And so this new idea uh


00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.190
the one that you've you've highlighted


00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.390
from Persi Space uh it's it's going to


00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.789
be tested actually early next year It


00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.750
it's quite counterintuitive and takes a


00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:53.830
while to get your head around how it


00:17:53.840 --> 00:17:56.830
works Uh it's called an electronamic


00:17:56.840 --> 00:18:00.789
tether It's a ribbon of aluminum maybe


00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.909
more than that Hundreds of meters i.e


00:18:03.919 --> 00:18:07.190
hundreds of yards long and only a few


00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.870
inches or centimeters wide And what


00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.430
happens is that this thing uh gets a


00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.750
current running up and down it from the


00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:18.710
the plasma uh in the ionosphere And by


00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.430
that we mean charged particles charged


00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.909
subatomic particles Uh in other words


00:18:23.919 --> 00:18:25.510
subatomic particles that carry an


00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:28.150
electric charge So excuse me So you get


00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.950
an electric current set up in the tether


00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.029
but that then interacts with the earth's


00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.710
magnetic field This is the really


00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.630
cunning bit uh and puts a drag on the on


00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.830
the tether uh it slows it down It starts


00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:44.430
breaking it So if the tether is attached


00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.430
to in fact it can be attached to a cubat


00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.789
they're small enough that you can do


00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.470
that This is the thing the size size of


00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.630
a loaf of bread but you then have to


00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.350
attach the cubat to whatever spacecraft


00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:57.270
you want to whose orbit you want to


00:18:57.280 --> 00:19:00.789
change you can actually set things up so


00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.710
that you um slow down the the uh the


00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.789
Maverick spacecraft uh and essentially


00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.470
make it slow enough that it will start


00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.950
to reenter the Earth's atmosphere and be


00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.830
burned up and again got out of the way


00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:18.310
Uh but this is the really cunning bit If


00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:19.990
you do it in a slightly different way


00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.549
you can also actually push it into a


00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.750
higher orbit um so that you you can


00:19:25.760 --> 00:19:28.390
refurbish a spacecraft one that has run


00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.669
out of its um uh maneuvering fuel so it


00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:34.070
can't save itself from being uh


00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:35.669
swallowed up by the atmosphere anymore


00:19:35.679 --> 00:19:37.590
You can shove it up to a higher orbit


00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:40.950
with the same electronamic tether uh and


00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.190
give it a new lease of life It's quite


00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.909
an amazing promise And and this is the


00:19:45.919 --> 00:19:48.070
best bit All of this is free It comes


00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:50.630
with no fuel expenditure It's because


00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.870
you're relying on the natural forces


00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:54.950
that surround the earth in order to do


00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.590
this It's a very very clever argument


00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:01.110
The question is will it work Yeah What


00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:02.789
you're sounding s what you're saying


00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.669
sounds truly just like magic And and I


00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:07.270
think about that all the time If you


00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:09.350
were to tell ancient people about even


00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:11.350
just the internet or a phone it would


00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:13.990
have sounded like magic to them and oh


00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.750
I'm talking to somebody around the world


00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:16.710
They would have thought I was a


00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:20.350
sorceress And and this to me


00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:23.990
sounds just amazing And it's so cool


00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.470
what humans have truly come up with I


00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.630
mean humanity I'm so proud of us


00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:31.190
sometimes Sometimes I'm not


00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.270
Sometimes sometimes I look at what


00:20:33.280 --> 00:20:35.270
humanity is collectively doing and it's


00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:37.909
just so awe inspiring And I just love


00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:39.510
being around these people who are doing


00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:43.510
incredible things


00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:49.750
3 2 1 space nuts But sometimes we mess


00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:53.270
it up and sometimes our models and


00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:55.750
predictions get it wrong which looks


00:20:55.760 --> 00:21:00.149
like that was the case with uh some some


00:21:00.159 --> 00:21:02.149
models that they created with these


00:21:02.159 --> 00:21:04.870
galaxies there our models either the


00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.390
models got it wrong or the galaxies got


00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.230
it wrong But our our prediction says


00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.750
that they were going to continue growing


00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:14.630
but in reality the galaxies stopped


00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.710
growing sooner than the models predicted


00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.149
That's right Um a fascinating story once


00:21:22.159 --> 00:21:25.750
again comes from uh I guess the poster


00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:27.350
child of spacecraft at the moment at


00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.110
least for astronomers the James Web


00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:33.990
Space Telescope uh which has um as as


00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.149
you know I think we talked about this a


00:21:36.159 --> 00:21:39.549
week or so ago uh has been concentrating


00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.390
on as as well as many other objects in


00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.270
space but looking very much at very


00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:47.110
distant galaxies because that is our


00:21:47.120 --> 00:21:49.149
probe to the early universe


00:21:49.159 --> 00:21:51.669
Uh whenever we look into space we're


00:21:51.679 --> 00:21:54.230
always looking back in time Uh we are


00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.270
looking back in this case many many


00:21:57.280 --> 00:21:59.029
billions of years Uh we think the


00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.190
universe is 13.8 billion years old So


00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.029
nothing can look back further than that


00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:04.870
We do see something at that age but it's


00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.510
the flash of the big bang Uh but those


00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:09.830
galaxies which came into being we think


00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:11.430
within the first few hundred million


00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.270
years of uh the the big bang Uh the big


00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:17.590
bang generated hydrogen Hydrogen forms


00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:20.870
stars Stars form galaxies And so we


00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.510
basically have been looking for galaxies


00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:25.909
in the in the early history of the


00:22:25.919 --> 00:22:27.990
universe kind of to try and understand


00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:29.990
when these first stars occurred and when


00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.830
they switched on And the basically


00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:36.549
what's happened is we've uncovered one


00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.149
after another puzzles uh really quite


00:22:40.159 --> 00:22:42.950
serious puzzles for our understanding of


00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.750
how galaxies work And this new one uh


00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:49.029
it's another conundrum uh comes about


00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.310
because we see galaxies when the


00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:54.230
universe was less than a billion years


00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.710
old But we see galaxies that look as


00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:58.149
though they should be several billion


00:22:58.159 --> 00:23:00.549
years old And that's because they've


00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.750
used up all their hydrogen in forming uh


00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:08.149
forming um the stars star Galaxies do


00:23:08.159 --> 00:23:09.909
form stars because the hydrogen is the


00:23:09.919 --> 00:23:12.789
raw material of stars and uh certainly


00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:14.789
our galaxy is actually still forming


00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.669
stars But some we know formed stars used


00:23:17.679 --> 00:23:19.270
up all the hydrogen and became


00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:21.830
effectively dead galaxies Now we thought


00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:23.830
those had to be going for billions of


00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:26.710
years in order to get like that But


00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.310
several have been found now in the early


00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:32.710
universe which looks as though they're


00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.750
much older than they can be because


00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:37.669
they've you know they've only existed


00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:40.310
for a few hundred mill uh few yes a few


00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:42.149
hundred million years Uh there's some


00:23:42.159 --> 00:23:45.350
really nice nmanllete with this um uh


00:23:45.360 --> 00:23:48.230
Heidi because um uh like u you know


00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.669
astronomers tend to like forming nice


00:23:50.679 --> 00:23:53.669
acronyms uh and there is a a survey


00:23:53.679 --> 00:23:56.149
called which is called red unknowns


00:23:56.159 --> 00:23:59.430
bright infrared extragalactic survey uh


00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.230
which abbreviates to rubies and I quite


00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.390
like that abbreviation So one of these


00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.149
galaxies is called rubies


00:24:07.159 --> 00:24:10.470
udsqgz7 That's um you know a nice yeah


00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:12.470
just encapsulates everything about it I


00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.190
guess the rubies uh is uh echoing what


00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.110
these galaxy look like galaxies look


00:24:17.120 --> 00:24:18.549
like They're redder than the star


00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:21.110
forming galaxies which tendency uh who


00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:23.430
have the tendency to be blue So another


00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.430
puzzle in the early universe which we


00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.510
have to get our heads around in order to


00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:29.909
understand really what's going on in


00:24:29.919 --> 00:24:34.230
that distant era of our past


00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.029
Do you think and I I almost like you


00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:38.950
know it's almost scary to think this but


00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.870
do you think that we could discover so


00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:42.789
much in space with James Webb and


00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.789
looking deeper and deeper that it


00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.110
challenges everything that we already


00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:48.870
know about the solar system and and


00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.350
sorry the universe It's it's almost like


00:24:51.360 --> 00:24:54.310
that already Um it's it the the web


00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:59.590
telescope has um really caused a lot of


00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:02.630
head scratching in terms of how you make


00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:04.870
these observations fit with our models


00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.990
of what the early universe was like um


00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.149
some people and a few of our question


00:25:10.159 --> 00:25:11.590
you know when when we've had Q&A


00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:13.990
sessions in space notes we occasionally


00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:15.669
get questions from listeners who've


00:25:15.679 --> 00:25:17.909
heard this sort of thing and say well


00:25:17.919 --> 00:25:19.350
there's something wrong here because


00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:21.029
some of these galaxies must have been


00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:25.029
formed before the big bang uh and that


00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.070
can't happen uh because there was


00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:30.950
nothing before the big bang not even


00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.149
space probably uh and so what we're what


00:25:34.159 --> 00:25:36.549
we're talking about is not a conundrum


00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.950
that says Yes we're seeing galaxies that


00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.310
are too old for the universe The


00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:43.750
conundrum is galaxies evolve much more


00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:46.390
quickly than we expected them to They


00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.950
they come into being uh and as we've


00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.190
seen here some of them almost enter old


00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:54.149
age when they're only a few hundred


00:25:54.159 --> 00:25:56.230
million years old And that flies in the


00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.070
face of conventional wisdom It means


00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:00.710
that our models of galaxy formation


00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:02.789
which we thought we had sort of fairly


00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.149
well uh neat and tidied up uh or neatly


00:26:06.159 --> 00:26:08.230
and tidied up No that doesn't make sense


00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.430
either Anyway you know what I'm trying


00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:11.830
to say We thought we'd we thought we'd


00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:14.470
understood them Uh and clearly we don't


00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:15.990
There are gaps in our knowledge that the


00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.230
James Web telescope is uncovering almost


00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.549
every day And it's a very stimulating


00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:22.630
time for astronomy and particularly


00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:24.230
those theoretical astronomers who've got


00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.830
to get their head around why it's like


00:26:25.840 --> 00:26:28.549
this and how this all works Ask me every


00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.710
semester of grad school I I finish up


00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.390
the semester I'm like "Okay finals went


00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.149
well I feel like I know what I'm doing


00:26:34.159 --> 00:26:36.630
Next semester should be a cakewalk." And


00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.230
then I walk into next semester and I was


00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.430
like "Oh uh this is I feel completely


00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:42.950
inadequate again and I don't understand


00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.870
any of this." But um do astronomers and


00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.230
cosmologists ever talk about the


00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.669
multiverse theory and how I don't know


00:26:53.679 --> 00:26:57.830
if there could be you know galaxies


00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:00.590
clashing and colliding from


00:27:00.600 --> 00:27:04.870
other universes and the big bang of our


00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.029
universe is timed differently than


00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:08.710
others Is that something that's been


00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.230
tossed around Yeah there's a huge amount


00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:15.830
of um activity in the what you might


00:27:15.840 --> 00:27:19.350
call the specul the speculative sphere


00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:22.830
uh about the multiverse Um if I remember


00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:26.950
rightly the I the term was coined by uh


00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.990
Martin Ree now Lord Ree uh who's the


00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.190
astronomer royal in in Britain Uh the


00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.029
astronomer royal I think was the first


00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.710
person to point out that um the universe


00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.909
that we see around us is very well tuned


00:27:41.919 --> 00:27:44.390
for things like stars and planets to


00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.630
form for galaxies to form and for life


00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.590
to form Uh and that you only have to


00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:52.070
change the fundamental constants of the


00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:54.230
universe a tiny bit either way and none


00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.470
of that happens And I think that was


00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:59.350
what led to the idea that maybe our


00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:03.590
universe is just one of many uh which


00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:07.750
have different uh physical constants and


00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:09.909
we happen to be in the one that has the


00:28:09.919 --> 00:28:11.990
physical constants that allow life to


00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.549
happen which is you know it's kind of


00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.590
self-fulfilling almost Uh we're not in


00:28:17.600 --> 00:28:19.110
one of the other ones because life


00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:21.669
wouldn't happen there Uh so that that


00:28:21.679 --> 00:28:23.510
was the start of it There's been other


00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:27.510
ideas that speculate about um multiple


00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:29.190
universes One of them and really neat


00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.350
one actually Yeah you may know there's


00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:33.269
there's four fundamental forces in


00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:36.070
nature The strong and weak nuclear


00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:38.149
forces The electromagnetic force which


00:28:38.159 --> 00:28:41.669
is light and radio and gravity But


00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:44.070
gravity is hundreds of it's actually


00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:46.149
billions upon billions upon billions


00:28:46.159 --> 00:28:49.590
upon billions of times fainter uh sorry


00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:51.430
uh weaker than the other ones It's not


00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.830
fainter it's weaker So gravity is very


00:28:53.840 --> 00:28:56.230
very weak even though we feel it quite


00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:58.389
you know noticeably if we fall over and


00:28:58.399 --> 00:29:00.870
get pulled down to to earth with a bang


00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.870
Uh but so gravity is very weak And some


00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.310
people have speculated that that might


00:29:04.320 --> 00:29:06.950
be because gravity leaks out into other


00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.350
universes if we've got a multiverse The


00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:11.590
problem is I mean the word universe


00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:13.950
itself means all that we can ever see or


00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:17.350
detect or measure Uh and as soon as you


00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:18.950
start talking about other universes


00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.789
you've you've thrown that definition


00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.430
away And it's hard to see where they


00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.710
would exist unless there are higher


00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:29.669
dimensions that we do not yet understand


00:29:29.679 --> 00:29:31.990
Uh and we might have you know a fifth or


00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.710
a sixth or a 20th dimension which


00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.710
contains other universes And then you


00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.549
have the idea of a multiverse What's


00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.350
difficult to see is how a galaxy from


00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.870
one of those could stray into our


00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.669
universe uh because uh otherwise it


00:29:45.679 --> 00:29:47.750
becomes part of the universe and


00:29:47.760 --> 00:29:50.149
probably would have formed with with you


00:29:50.159 --> 00:29:52.669
know with with our universe and our


00:29:52.679 --> 00:29:55.590
galaxies The one the one thing that


00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:58.710
people point to as an observational tool


00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.190
is this microwave background This


00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.909
background of radiation that we see and


00:30:03.919 --> 00:30:05.830
understand as being the flash of the big


00:30:05.840 --> 00:30:08.070
bang that we're seeing so far in look


00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:09.750
back time that we can still see it


00:30:09.760 --> 00:30:11.510
because that has a pattern imprinted on


00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:14.070
it uh which are hot slightly warmer and


00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:16.710
cooler zones of temperature And some


00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.310
people think they can see patterns in


00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:20.149
that that they think might have come


00:30:20.159 --> 00:30:22.549
from a different universe But that is


00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.430
very very speculative Very speculative


00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.389
indeed That's more of the the


00:30:27.399 --> 00:30:30.549
mathematicians realm is to go in define


00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:32.070
some of these things mathematically


00:30:32.080 --> 00:30:34.190
before we can even really define it


00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:37.909
theoretically And then you know maybe a


00:30:37.919 --> 00:30:39.510
thousand years from now we'll have the


00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:43.350
technology to better understand this But


00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:45.510
in the meantime I guess the only way


00:30:45.520 --> 00:30:47.190
that I think this could theoretically


00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:48.789
make sense and this is just fun little


00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.430
brain candy is you know my my pencil


00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.230
leaves behind its in my 3D my


00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:57.750
three-dimensional pencil leaves behind


00:30:57.760 --> 00:31:00.230
its mark on a piece of paper And that's


00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.789
only because the lead is that crossover


00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.909
And so there could be I don't know


00:31:04.919 --> 00:31:08.710
crossover bits of matter that can bleed


00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.510
in to different dimensions Yeah The nice


00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:13.510
thing about your analogy is that you


00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:15.669
you're quite right Your pencil is it's


00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:17.269
not a pencil but it looks a bit like


00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:20.310
that It's a three-dimensional object You


00:31:20.320 --> 00:31:21.669
write on paper which is a


00:31:21.679 --> 00:31:24.470
two-dimensional object And so you've got


00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.630
a threedimensional object interacting


00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.510
with a two-dimensional object And that


00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:34.070
could be a nice model for what the you


00:31:34.080 --> 00:31:37.750
know what the multiverse is like Um that


00:31:37.760 --> 00:31:41.509
and in fact it's not too far uh out We


00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.350
can sort of almost extend it as well


00:31:43.360 --> 00:31:46.549
because excuse me here we have a piece


00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:47.630
of


00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.830
paper Um Oh fantastic Now the demos Yeah


00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:53.909
So uh I don't know whether anybody else


00:31:53.919 --> 00:31:55.669
can see this If you're listening I'm


00:31:55.679 --> 00:31:56.950
sorry about this but I'm holding up a


00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.750
sheet of paper uh we can all envision a


00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:01.509
piece of paper actually turns out to be


00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.149
two pieces of paper and that's the idea


00:32:04.159 --> 00:32:07.549
of something called M theory M theory is


00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:10.630
membrane and so we think one sheet of


00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.310
paper is a membrane on which our


00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:15.190
universe is is imprinted and another


00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.350
sheet of paper might be a membrane with


00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:19.909
another universe on it and the idea is


00:32:19.919 --> 00:32:21.509
that it's collisions between these


00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.029
membranes that cause big bangs Uh this


00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.509
is known as the epyrootic theory of the


00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.590
universe to give it a name What's freaky


00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:33.990
about that is if it's true these


00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.830
membranes are only a few millimeters


00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:39.350
apart and so they might things happening


00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:41.750
all the time Maybe there are Yes Yes


00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:43.990
that's right So take that one away and


00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.630
uh think about it But what a good


00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.630
analogy though You did you did Yeah you


00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:50.950
hit on the right I watch a lot of sci-fi


00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.789
they uh they try and dumb it down for


00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.230
their uh their


00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:59.110
watchers their viewers Um you know I I


00:32:59.120 --> 00:33:01.029
I've always thought of this ever since I


00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:03.509
was a little kid with the Men in Black


00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.470
the original movie the very end scene


00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.190
where they zoom all the way out of our


00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:11.669
Earth and our g in our solar system and


00:33:11.679 --> 00:33:13.430
galaxy and universe and it keeps zooming


00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:14.950
out and it keeps zooming out and it


00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.350
keeps zooming out and then eventually um


00:33:17.360 --> 00:33:19.190
everything that we could conceptualize


00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.990
in our known universe was just a marble


00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.070
in an alien's hand and they were just


00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:26.950
playing with marbles and and it's just


00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:28.470
you know the idea that it just


00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:29.870
continually


00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.149
exponentially if you just could open up


00:33:32.159 --> 00:33:33.909
the aperture infinitely there would


00:33:33.919 --> 00:33:35.990
always be something bigger and bigger


00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.230
and bigger and and I think that


00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.789
mathematically they've I've just heard


00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.310
this I have no idea but I think


00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:44.310
mathematically some of the formulas to


00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:46.190
look at some of the smallest


00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:49.310
known things and the biggest things are


00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:51.909
similar I think that falls into quantum


00:33:51.919 --> 00:33:55.029
theory Yeah that's right Well yes that's


00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.470
that's correct uh quantum I mean when


00:33:58.480 --> 00:33:59.509
you look at the mathematics of


00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.269
relativity and quantum theory which are


00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:04.789
the two sort of theories that you know


00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.549
one one governs the very small one


00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.510
governs the very large u some of those


00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:11.349
equations do look similar they're all


00:34:11.359 --> 00:34:13.510
horrendous mathematics was not my strong


00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:16.149
point at university I'm afraid oh me


00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:19.669
neither but now oh but but what if and


00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:20.869
you know I don't think these are the


00:34:20.879 --> 00:34:22.470
questions we'll ever answer but what if


00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.589
it was just a big circle how crazy would


00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:26.550
that


00:34:26.560 --> 00:34:28.310
Those are the things we may never find


00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.869
out though but we will continue to


00:34:30.879 --> 00:34:33.669
explore and answer those questions every


00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:36.230
week here on Space Nuts Fred did you


00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:38.790
have anything else you wanted to add to


00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.109
our conversation today Um not only that


00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.750
um we have very exciting time at the


00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:47.990
moment in in human space flight We've


00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:51.349
just seen the orbital fry sorry orbital


00:34:51.359 --> 00:34:53.589
flight of the Framm 2 mission a


00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:56.869
privately operated space mission uh that


00:34:56.879 --> 00:34:59.190
took humans into a polar orbit for the


00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:00.710
first time one that crosses both the


00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:02.790
North and the South Pole Uh those


00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.430
astronauts returned a few days ago uh


00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.030
with lots of tales to tell We might


00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:09.030
cover that in a future is edition of


00:35:09.040 --> 00:35:11.589
Space Nuts It's very exciting Thank you


00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:13.190
so much Fred It was great talking to you


00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:15.589
today Always a pleasure Heidi Thank you


00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.150
very much for your time too Space Nuts


00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:20.310
You'll be listening to the Space Nuts


00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.550
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00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:25.510
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00:35:25.520 --> 00:35:28.150
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00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:30.990
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00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.430
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