Cosmic Winds, Nebula Secrets & the Mysteries of Neptune | Space Nuts: Exploring the Cosmos

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Kind: captions
Language: en

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welcome to Space Nuts my name is Heidi


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Compo and I'm here with Fred Watson


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astronomer at large and I bet many of


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you are wondering who is this lady why


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is she here where is Andrew i can assure


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you he is just fine and probably having


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the time of his life i am here filling


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in helping him out while he is on a


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little break and I I found safe space


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originally from just being a listener


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myself i also have a podcast Reality


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Check: The Science of Fiction where I


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talk to subject matter experts about the


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plausibility of sci-fi concepts and I am


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a graduate student here in space city


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Houston Texas and I'm focusing on


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spaceflight human optimization and


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performance so I have a very interesting


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segue into the space world i'm really


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interested in a lot of the I guess the


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sci-fi concepts that integrate into


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space science and all the new


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discoveries that Fred knows so much


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about and I'm excited to be here as your


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fillin host for this episode 15 seconds


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guidance is internal 10 9 ignition


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sequence start space nets 5 4 3 2 1 2 3


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4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space nuts astronauts


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report it feels good fred thanks for


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having me uh you're very welcome Heidi


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uh it's a delight to welcome you to the


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Space Nuts team uh it's very appropriate


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I think that we should be beaming


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beaming out from Houston Texas uh and


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what better person to fit into Andrew's


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empty shoes at the moment than yourself


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uh it's uh lovely to have you and I'm


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really looking forward to our our next


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few sessions when we can chat together


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behind Andrew's back


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no this is going to be great so we have


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some really interesting topics this week


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i was looking over them um we're going


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to be talking about the blue ghost uh


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sojourn on Mars or sorry on the moon and


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that looked really interesting to me the


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other thing we're going to be talking


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about is some of the activity with the


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James Webb telescope about Neptune so


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that's a planet we really don't talk as


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much about neptune is really kind of the


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ignored stepchild of the solar system so


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I'm excited to hear what you have to say


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about that activity and then the last


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thing we'll be talking today about today


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is the Helix Nebula and some really


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exciting new discoveries going on with


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that so I think that I would be


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interested in just jumping right in with


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the Neptune story


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excellent um a good planet to start with


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Heidi uh and you're absolutely right um


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Neptune has only been visited by once by


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um you know a human-built spacecraft


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maybe there were alien spacecraft that


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have visited it but only one human built


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one uh which was Voyager 2 uh and um so


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what we know about it really comes very


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much from the images that were taken


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when Voyager 2 flew by Neptune that was


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in the 80s uh but Neptune of course is a


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world that has an active atmosphere it's


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an ice giant one of the two ice giants


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in the uh in the outer solar system and


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and that term refers to the fact that we


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believe there are solid ices as a kind


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of haze in the atmosphere of Neptune um


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so it's slightly different from the


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other two gas giants uh Jupiter uh and


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Saturn which are they they don't have


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those icy hazes because their


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temperature is just slightly warmer uh


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being nearer the sun um so the really


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interesting thing was when uh the flyby


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uh with Voyager 2 took place um Neptune


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looked very boring uh it had a you know


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it was just like a a pale blue green


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disc with not much happening uh and I


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think that probably did it a disservice


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because we've you know we thought of


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this planet as having rather


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uninteresting atmospherics although


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subsequent measurements made from earth


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actually uh demonstrated that it does


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have high winds in its atmosphere uh and


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just a mention to uh the the the system


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of moons of Neptune because uh some of


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those are particularly interesting as


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well triton is its largest moon it may


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well be one of these ice worlds with a


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uh with a rocky core an overlying ocean


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a global ocean and ice on top but that's


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not what we're talking about today uh so


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so uh what's the story why is Neptune in


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the news well it it's because as you


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might expect it has been a subject of


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observation by uh basically astronomy's


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new toy still new after 3 years I guess


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now uh the James Web Space Telescope um


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with its marvelous infrared cameras uh


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and very very sensitive spectroscopic


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systems so what has been uh detected by


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the web is something that we've known


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about uh maybe hinted at uh by earlier


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observations over a long period of time


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uh probably since those the the Voyager


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flyby uh that um it has aurori or


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auroras if you want to be less uh pick


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um picky about your Latin uh aurori um


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northern and southern light like we have


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on Earth like the other gas giants


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themselves have uh but the problem is


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you know uh hints are fine but what you


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really want is a kind of signature of


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these things in the spectrum the the


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sort of rainbow of colors that we see uh


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when we split the light up uh into into


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those components and that as we've


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discussed many times on space nuts those


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spectra are crossed by a kind of almost


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like a a you know a supermarket barcode


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uh of information which we can read and


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detect what gases are involved with


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these with these spectral colors so uh


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yes the James Web has thrown its might


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behind observations of Neptune and sure


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enough we have found strong emission uh


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of the the kind of telltale elements uh


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that indicate auroral activity and


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remember uh aurora are caused by the the


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the solar particles the subatomic


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particles that come from the sun


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interacting with the atmosphere of a


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planet that's what causes the glow and


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that's why it has characteristic colors


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because the glow itself comes from the


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elements in the atmosphere so yes aurori


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on Neptune uh and very similar to the


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phenomenon on earth but different colors


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uh because it's different elements that


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are being excited the green in in Aurori


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here on Earth comes from oxygen uh which


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isn't there on Neptune so the colors are


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coming from they're actually coming from


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hydrogen


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yeah it's absolutely beautiful i'm


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looking at these images right now it


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reminds me of one of those uh mood rings


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that were really popular in the '9s


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where it starts to change color it's uh


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really spectacular to see and I'm seeing


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in this image so you you just described


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that the greenish color comes from um


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hydrogen i'm seeing also spots of white


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cuz if you look at the images of Hubble


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which it's pretty much just blue all the


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way across and then the image of the web


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um there's some big white spots is that


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part of the aura um I suspect um some of


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those are clouds uh which are also now


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visible in the infrared we see similar


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things on uh in the atmosphere of Uranus


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white spots which are um very extensive


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areas of cloud in the atmosphere um the


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the atmospheric circulation um you know


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on on both those ice giants Uranus and


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Neptune is relatively slow in terms of


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the uh the changes in the atmosphere and


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that's partly because the temperature


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there is - 214° C at the surface but


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that doesn't um necessarily mean that


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you don't get high winds and in fact um


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it I think uh the winds on Neptune uh


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are the record-breaking winds in the


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atmosphere of a planet in the solar


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system up to 2,400 kilometers per hour


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um that's what's that that's about 18 uh


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1,800 miles hour so it's that's very


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fast i'm thinking of it in hurricane


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terms yeah it's super hurricane that's


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right um and I think um that there is


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also uh on Neptune there is a something


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that's sort of related to the great red


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spots on Jupiter a storm a long lived


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storm and maybe that's what's showing up


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as the some of the white spots or at


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least one of the white spot i'm just


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looking for them now there is a big


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white spot in the middle of the um the


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JWST images uh but I think the poles is


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the aurora and you've just reminded me


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though looking at those pictures one of


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the


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peculiarities of Neptune is that we


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think it's


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magnetic axis that the two magnetic


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poles um are tilted well over to sort of


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middle latitudes unlike here on Earth


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where they they don't exactly align


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magnetic north is not the same as


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geographic north but the the magnetic


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poles more or less align with the


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rotation of the planet uh and that's


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probably to do with the fact that we


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think these that the earth's magnetism


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is generated by uh the circulation of


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the iron uh and nickel core uh which is


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in two parts and it sort of acts like a


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dynamo and that generates a magnetic


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field um Neptune and probably the other


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gas giants have something similar we


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really don't understand the origin of


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their magnetism we don't know whether


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there's a solid core or not in the gas


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giants we suspect there must be in order


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for them to have these strong magnetic


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fields but on Neptune the magnet the


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magnetic field is tilted over at quite a


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considerable angle to the rotation of


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the planet uh which is why the aurori


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appear at mid latitudes on Neptune


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rather than near the poles as they do


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here on Earth as I know well from my


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sojun up in the Arctic two months ago


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yeah so I I have heard there's something


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going on with Neptune's orbit it's


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either wobbly or it changes or something


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like that would that have anything to do


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with this tilt um it it is possible you


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know the two may be related um usually


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the rotation of a planet and its


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orbit are fairly decoupled um and you've


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only to look at Uranus which you know as


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you know is tilted over nine degrees I


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think it's nine degrees below below the


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uh the what you might call the


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horizontal the plane of its orbit uh and


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um Uranus has a reasonably


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well sort of well- behaved orbit um


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Neptune's interesting because it's in


00:11:45.839 --> 00:11:48.550
modern parliament it represents the the


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outermost planet of the solar system uh


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and it does affect the orbits of the


00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:56.870
many myriads of objects that we know lie


00:11:56.880 --> 00:11:58.389
beyond that the so-called trans


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neptunian objects which include things


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in the Kiper belt and things called


00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.790
resonant objects like Plutos plutos are


00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:07.269
resonant objects because it resonates in


00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.670
its orbital period with Neptune and the


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and the scattered disc objects as they


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called way beyond that uh so it it could


00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.230
be um that Neptune's orbit is


00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:17.750
interacting with those although a big


00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:20.310
planet like Neptune it takes a lot to


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shift its orbit to to per perturb it so


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I I haven't seen those reports that


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you've mentioned and um everything


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you've just heard is complete waffle but


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that's the way it works when you're


00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:32.710
talking about things you've not seen


00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.350
before right and I think there's just so


00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.269
much of that with space it's uh the the


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I was at a NASA tech talk last week and


00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:43.910
one of the they were me they were


00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:45.990
talking about SANS which is an ocular


00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.470
syndrome that the astronauts experience


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or they have issues with their eyes and


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for those of you listening my little dog


00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.269
spiking for attention in the corner


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we're just going to ignore them play


00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.069
time when we're done recording but um


00:12:58.079 --> 00:13:01.509
the the uh presenter he brought he was a


00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.670
flight surgeon and he brought up so many


00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:06.150
funny headlines and articles it's NASA


00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:08.150
scientists say this and this he's like I


00:13:08.160 --> 00:13:10.629
cannot find these experts yes if anybody


00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:12.470
knows these experts that this headline


00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.069
is claiming to talk about please let me


00:13:14.079 --> 00:13:16.470
know because this is all wrong so I


00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:17.829
think there's a lot of that in the space


00:13:17.839 --> 00:13:19.590
industry


00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.590
so that that's a really interesting


00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.190
syndrome isn't it because that's one of


00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.949
the potential longived um u consequences


00:13:26.959 --> 00:13:30.230
of of um long-term space flight that


00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.829
you've got these ocular effects um my


00:13:33.839 --> 00:13:35.670
Sorry we've we're way off topic here


00:13:35.680 --> 00:13:38.110
Heidi but that's all right


00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.829
um hello i've forgotten your dog simba


00:13:41.839 --> 00:13:43.509
like the Lion King you know he's wagging


00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.389
his tail he's He's trying as hard as he


00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:49.350
can to be as cute as possible


00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.870
he's doing a fine job the tail wager he


00:13:52.880 --> 00:13:54.710
thinks if he's cuter I'll stop recording


00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.269
and go play with him yeah I I know the


00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:01.509
syndrome um so this what I've read is


00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.150
that it may be caused by the fact that


00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:05.910
you know the circulation in the body the


00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:08.430
blood circulation in the body changes in


00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:10.949
microgravity and that you might well


00:14:10.959 --> 00:14:15.189
have uh pressures in the cranium that


00:14:15.199 --> 00:14:17.670
might affect the eyes in a way that we


00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:19.269
don't have on Earth is that the thinking


00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:21.030
or am I just making that up you're


00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:23.269
absolutely spot on yeah it's it's has


00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.590
everything to do with fluid so when the


00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.790
fluid changes in the body we normally


00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.629
have gravity pulling that fluid away


00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.550
from the head but when we're in space


00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:35.350
the fluid tends to you know pull up


00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:38.069
towards our head and shift in places


00:14:38.079 --> 00:14:40.150
that we don't necessarily want it so


00:14:40.160 --> 00:14:43.269
there that is a leading issue um and


00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:45.430
causing that pressure and then there


00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.189
were you know there were so many other


00:14:47.199 --> 00:14:49.750
points and tangents with that but um


00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:51.590
we're learning so much more about it now


00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.350
and one of the really interesting things


00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.509
with space medicine and human


00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:57.430
performance in space is when we're


00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:58.710
looking at the research we'll have like


00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.110
an N of eight and for those of you


00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.430
non-science people N is your subject


00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.470
number so you know when we're looking at


00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.550
you know cancer research that can be in


00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:11.110
the hundreds or thousands of data points


00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.629
that we're looking at but when we're


00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.870
talking about astronaut health it's just


00:15:14.880 --> 00:15:17.750
a handful of people so there's really


00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:20.389
there's as much as we know about it is


00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.629
with the people that have been to space


00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.670
already and that's one reason why I'm so


00:15:24.680 --> 00:15:27.030
excited about what some of these other


00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:29.189
companies are doing like Blue Origin


00:15:29.199 --> 00:15:31.670
Axiom Virgin that are getting more and


00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:33.750
more people into space so that we can


00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:36.750
learn more about space health which does


00:15:36.760 --> 00:15:39.910
influence health on Earth


00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:41.189
there's so much we've learned about


00:15:41.199 --> 00:15:43.189
space medicine that has helped improve


00:15:43.199 --> 00:15:45.509
life on Earth


00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.870
which is remarkable and um and and great


00:15:48.880 --> 00:15:50.949
news and one of the you know the many


00:15:50.959 --> 00:15:54.389
many many benefits of space exploration


00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.269
uh we've got another commercial flight


00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:59.030
about to launch I think within the next


00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:00.550
few days is that right the Framm 2


00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:03.670
mission oh they are going all the time i


00:16:03.680 --> 00:16:05.509
uh don't I can't even keep up with all


00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.030
of them sometimes yeah that's what


00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:13.189
um you should listen to this show for


00:16:13.199 --> 00:16:15.350
so I have another Depune question and I


00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.150
want to segue this in with the humans in


00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:20.310
the people part i love that are you


00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.189
familiar with the book it's a book and a


00:16:23.199 --> 00:16:25.269
TV series called The Expanse are you


00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:30.949
familiar with it um um no um and um I um


00:16:30.959 --> 00:16:34.150
I apologize for that um because I I


00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:35.910
there's so much going on out there that


00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:38.470
I simply don't have time to read or look


00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.749
at and understand yeah I rely on I


00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.670
certainly rely on Andrew uh keeping


00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:45.590
keeping me honest in regards to science


00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.030
fiction and I'm sure the same is going


00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:48.550
to be true with you but no I don't know


00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:52.870
about the So in the expanse they have um


00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:55.430
they have populated the solar system


00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.590
there's people living on Earth Mars and


00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.910
there are also people living out in the


00:16:59.920 --> 00:17:02.230
asteroid belts they call them belters


00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.669
and these people are multigenerations


00:17:05.679 --> 00:17:07.510
born in space so they have phys


00:17:07.520 --> 00:17:10.549
physiologically adapted to life in space


00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.630
so they have become physically different


00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:14.549
from people born on earth because of the


00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.870
gravities and the systems there so I


00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:18.470
want to segue this back into talking


00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.870
about Neptune because we have ice we


00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.630
have wind and from what I do know about


00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.750
greenhouse gases um and thinking about


00:17:27.760 --> 00:17:30.630
the expanse there has been some chatter


00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.270
about putting some


00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:37.270
industrial factories and whatnot on Mars


00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.669
eventually to help generate greenhouse


00:17:39.679 --> 00:17:42.950
gases to help increase atmosphere on


00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.230
Mars is this something because I always


00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:47.590
like to think about what we're looking


00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:49.430
at and seeing with these auroras and


00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:50.789
space and everything we're learning and


00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:53.270
what does it mean for future generations


00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:57.750
could could Neptune potentially be um a


00:17:57.760 --> 00:18:00.230
big power generating planet with these


00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.070
winds if we could harvest these winds


00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:07.350
what a lovely idea um um wind turbines


00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:12.549
on Neptune now that's really a really um


00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:16.070
expansive idea if I can um use the joke


00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:21.270
there uh it's um so um it the the


00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:25.669
likelihood is that um with as with so


00:18:25.679 --> 00:18:28.710
many things that people talk about doing


00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.950
in space it's actually easier not to uh


00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.230
to find alternative sources uh of


00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.310
whatever it is you're trying to generate


00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:42.310
um and the the the the winds on Neptune


00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:44.710
colossal winds as we've said you know up


00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.950
to maybe approaching 2,000 miles per


00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.590
hour


00:18:48.600 --> 00:18:52.070
uh how you would generate them it's hard


00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:55.350
to know what might be interesting though


00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:57.990
is if you could use them sorry how you


00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.789
could use how you could use those winds


00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.190
to generate power it's hard to know but


00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:05.870
if you could um use those winds to


00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.150
facilitate exploration of the planet's


00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.230
atmosphere and that something I could


00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.870
well imagine you know people dropping um


00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.029
balloons into the atmosphere of of


00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.990
Neptune uh to watch the circulation to


00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.350
do what we do here on Earth with uh um


00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:25.830
our multiple capacity for for uh


00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:28.310
measuring and predicting the weather so


00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:29.750
weather on Neptune might be something


00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:31.990
that turns out to be quite interesting i


00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.270
think um a more in some ways a more


00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:39.510
uh what's the word opposite maybe is the


00:19:39.520 --> 00:19:42.310
right word uh world uh to be interested


00:19:42.320 --> 00:19:44.830
in in the Neptune system is is moon


00:19:44.840 --> 00:19:47.830
Triton because that could turn out to be


00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:49.510
you know one of the places like Europa


00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:51.909
and Enteladus that has the potential for


00:19:51.919 --> 00:19:53.789
perhaps living organisms beneath the


00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.669
surface and that is very exciting very


00:19:57.679 --> 00:19:59.909
exciting and it really just comes down


00:19:59.919 --> 00:20:02.070
to the human ingenuity the engineering


00:20:02.080 --> 00:20:03.830
and all the new breakthroughs that we're


00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:05.669
making it seems like every single day


00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:07.029
there's more stuff that we're coming up


00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.230
with to get us out there


00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.630
okay let's take a quick break from the


00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.310
show to give a shout out to our sponsor


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nordvpn.com/spacenuts all right let's


00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.870
get back to the show


00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.950
space nuts which I think is kind of a


00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:58.029
good segue into our next story um so


00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:02.470
NASA's created this new dust shield and


00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.310
it's going to help repel the lunar


00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:09.830
regalith which is very important uh the


00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:11.149
regalith is


00:22:11.159 --> 00:22:15.029
very fine it's very sticky it can be


00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.149
kind of dangerous if this is getting in


00:22:18.159 --> 00:22:20.549
their um analoges and their facilities


00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.870
and where they're living so tell me more


00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.789
about this this is quite the interesting


00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.590
story


00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:31.549
that's um that that's Jordy


00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.990
um let let me just check what's


00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.430
happening because it's he does sound


00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.390
like a chicken yeah jordy jordy jordy


00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.630
johnny


00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.310
uh I do apologize he does sound like a


00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:44.390
chicken he does doesn't he yeah he's


00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.789
just like a rooster he doesn't know that


00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.510
he thinks he sounds like a big Just calm


00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:52.710
down Jordy it's all right there's um


00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.789
there's a dog that he hates that its


00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.270
owner occasionally brings it near our


00:22:57.280 --> 00:23:00.190
property to take they know better


00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.350
yeah all right Jordy calm down good boy


00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:06.390
good boy good boy um okay so the Luna


00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.149
Regal is


00:23:08.159 --> 00:23:09.990
back to the moon from the sublime to the


00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.110
ridiculous or the other way around uh we


00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:15.430
Yes you're absolutely right that the the


00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.950
soil on the moon is such an interesting


00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.430
thing it's different from anything we


00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.990
have on Earth uh and that's because it


00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.190
has been formed not by wind and water


00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.590
erosion like the soil on Earth has but


00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:32.390
by um bombardment by these subatomic


00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.070
particles the wind of particles that


00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.310
constantly blows from the sun probably a


00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:38.310
few micrometeorites banging into the


00:23:38.320 --> 00:23:40.549
surface as well and so what we've got is


00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.590
a soil that is very very fine and very


00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:46.149
angular uh so it's got sharp edges all


00:23:46.159 --> 00:23:48.070
the way around it and exactly as you've


00:23:48.080 --> 00:23:49.669
said that's why it gets into all the


00:23:49.679 --> 00:23:52.870
nooks and cran crannies all the crevices


00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.110
the the basically the clothing of


00:23:55.120 --> 00:23:59.430
astronauts um there is one recorded case


00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.789
uh and you probably know more about this


00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.110
than I do Heidi one of the Apollo


00:24:03.120 --> 00:24:04.630
missions and I can't remember which one


00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:08.149
it was but so much dust was brought into


00:24:08.159 --> 00:24:11.669
the uh into the lunar module by one of


00:24:11.679 --> 00:24:14.390
the astronauts that uh it pervaded the


00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.950
whole return trip back to Earth and gave


00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.909
that person the first case of lunar hay


00:24:19.919 --> 00:24:21.909
fever because he was sneezing all the


00:24:21.919 --> 00:24:23.350
time because of this dust i can't


00:24:23.360 --> 00:24:24.549
remember who it was


00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.390
i I do remember hearing about this and I


00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.149
also can't remember who it was but yeah


00:24:28.159 --> 00:24:30.390
it could be quite the problem it's just


00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.669
this sticky fine mess


00:24:33.679 --> 00:24:37.110
so um NASA in their wisdom are looking


00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:40.230
at ways to mitigate the effects of that


00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.590
and um as part of the Blue Ghost mission


00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:46.070
that was a spacecraft that commercial


00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.110
spacecraft landed on the moon


00:24:48.120 --> 00:24:50.390
successfully uh I don't know a month ago


00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.669
I guess it's it's not very long ago um


00:24:53.679 --> 00:24:57.909
uh which was part of NASA's program for


00:24:57.919 --> 00:24:59.510
I think it's called the commercial lunar


00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:02.630
payloads program in other words getting


00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.669
um the commercial world to actually do


00:25:05.679 --> 00:25:07.990
some of the leg work in preparing for


00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.950
the Opimus uh flights to the moon later


00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.350
in the decade uh and one of the


00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:16.549
experiments carried on board Blue Ghost


00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.590
was indeed about how you can reduce the


00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:23.190
effects of this lunar dust uh it has a


00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.669
name it is called the EDS uh the


00:25:26.679 --> 00:25:30.149
electronamic dust shield and um


00:25:30.159 --> 00:25:34.870
basically it uh is a way of removing uh


00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:36.950
the the the contamination of dust and


00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.149
dirt from uh whatever surfaces you


00:25:40.159 --> 00:25:43.110
you've got on the moon probably uh it's


00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:45.110
more like spacecraft surfaces than


00:25:45.120 --> 00:25:47.029
clothing although this it might lend


00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.630
itself to that eventually uh and um it


00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.789
seems to have worked very very well


00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.149
there is uh a pair of images which are


00:25:56.159 --> 00:25:58.870
pretty easy to find on the web um I'm


00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.669
looking actually at the NASA uh uh


00:26:01.679 --> 00:26:03.510
website itself for the press release


00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:05.830
which is entitled NASA's dust shield


00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:08.789
successfully repels lunar regalith on


00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.350
moon uh and you can see a before and


00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:13.510
after with this uh with this device


00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:18.149
activated um I I suspect it works well


00:26:18.159 --> 00:26:21.669
it's called an electro electronamic uh


00:26:21.679 --> 00:26:25.190
dust shield uh but um that electronamic


00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.430
usually means moving electrons so


00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.549
there's a current flowing uh but um it's


00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.549
I suspect that the basic mechanism is


00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.830
electrostatic it's a repulsion of the of


00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:39.110
the you know the slightly charged uh


00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:41.190
soil particles that that exist on the


00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.350
moon they they are they are electrically


00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:45.510
charged so if you can give them an


00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:47.669
opposite charge they'll be repelled and


00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:48.789
that looks as though it's what's


00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.789
happening and it's been met with success


00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:53.110
so perhaps it's a step forward in


00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:55.590
cleaning up our voyages to the moon and


00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:56.870
not bringing back a whole lot of


00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.870
unwanted moon dust when you come back to


00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.510
Earth absolutely and I'm just thinking


00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:03.430
again of the implications for Earth


00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:04.789
because I think sometimes there's a


00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:06.149
little bit of like I said earlier


00:27:06.159 --> 00:27:07.909
there's a little bit of a disconnect you


00:27:07.919 --> 00:27:10.070
know thinking space and how it's not


00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:12.390
related to Earth and it's so so related


00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.310
to everything we do here on Earth i mean


00:27:14.320 --> 00:27:17.669
GPS NASA gave us GPS nasa gave us water


00:27:17.679 --> 00:27:20.029
purification nasa gave us


00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:23.190
um Oh man i'm totally mindbling the big


00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.110
machine that you go into that scans you


00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:27.669
if you go to the hospital yeah an MRI


00:27:27.679 --> 00:27:29.590
mri machine yes that should be the one


00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:31.190
that I know but yeah I mean so much of


00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.350
this has come from space science and I'm


00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:34.870
thinking of something that would make my


00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.190
life easier even just on the simplest


00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.310
level if the surfaces in my house my


00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:43.350
tables and everything repelled dust and


00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:45.350
I don't know if we are just that much


00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:48.390
closer to inventing dust repelling


00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:50.789
surfaces and that just makes everybody's


00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:53.269
life that much easier that much safer


00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.710
because then you're not using cleaning


00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:56.710
agents and chemicals to clean your house


00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.110
you just have a surface that just repels


00:27:59.120 --> 00:28:00.950
that dust automatically and that just


00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:02.389
could that could even have really good


00:28:02.399 --> 00:28:04.950
implications in sterile environments


00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.350
like computer um places where they're


00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:09.669
building computer or hospital settings


00:28:09.679 --> 00:28:12.710
so this is actually very very exciting


00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.630
that they're doing this and the article


00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.789
is quite short it's just a blur but the


00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.190
implications of this you know we don't


00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.029
know how this is going to improve life


00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.950
down the road exactly that's right it's


00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:27.430
um you know the the sky Well the sky's


00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.909
is the limit really isn't it in terms of


00:28:29.919 --> 00:28:33.269
what we can do with space technology um


00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.830
technology perfected for space i I do


00:28:35.840 --> 00:28:37.990
worry you know if you if you press a


00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.909
button and all the dust leaps off all


00:28:39.919 --> 00:28:41.750
the surfaces in your house you might


00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:44.070
need an extractor fan to take them away


00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:45.830
so they don't wind up somewhere where


00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:49.269
you don't want them yes


00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:53.110
the next segue


00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:55.190
okay we checked all four systems and


00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.310
keying with the space nets speaking of


00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:01.990
the sky being the limit our last article


00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.110
that we're looking at there was a


00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:10.549
um big nebula explosion and there's a


00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.029
glow left over from it uh the title is a


00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.830
nebula's x-ray glow may come from a


00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:21.510
destroyed giant planet


00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:23.789
and that's quite dramatic


00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:26.950
but we are excited about these images


00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.710
because it tells us about history


00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.750
that's right um and in fact everything


00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:35.430
in the universe tells you about history


00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:36.950
which is great because you're always


00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.350
looking back in time uh we're we're


00:29:39.360 --> 00:29:41.110
looking back in this case I think it's


00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:42.269
about


00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:46.909
670 650 light years it's a very very


00:29:46.919 --> 00:29:50.310
well-known object uh called the Helix


00:29:50.320 --> 00:29:53.669
Nebula um and in fact first captured in


00:29:53.679 --> 00:29:56.549
full color by my colleague and friend


00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.590
David Merlin who um was the person who


00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:01.269
essentially developed a technique in the


00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.789
1970s and 80s uh to put true color into


00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.389
celestial images by taking three sets of


00:30:08.399 --> 00:30:10.230
photographic plates as we used in those


00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:13.029
days through red green and blue filters


00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.070
um and he he became very well known for


00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:18.230
that he was totally fastidious and still


00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.389
is actually about getting the color


00:30:20.399 --> 00:30:22.310
balance right so that what we saw in


00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:25.029
these images was what uh what we would


00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.350
be able to see if our eyes were millions


00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:29.990
of times more sensitive now segue from


00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.269
that to the present time when that


00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.669
lovely color image uh of the Helix


00:30:35.679 --> 00:30:39.350
Nebula became very very famous uh um


00:30:39.360 --> 00:30:41.830
that was what we see in visible light


00:30:41.840 --> 00:30:44.389
but it's now been observed at many other


00:30:44.399 --> 00:30:47.510
wavelengths of light as well um and


00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:51.669
ranging from uh infrared to X-rays in


00:30:51.679 --> 00:30:53.510
fact put it that way around or X-rays to


00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:56.710
infrared um and it's the X-ray radiation


00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.549
that is the most exciting and it's the


00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.029
reason why we've got this story so the


00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.870
the Helix Nebula just to give the


00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.630
backstory is what we call a planetary


00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.950
nebula uh and and it's nothing to do


00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:09.430
with planets except in the way that


00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:11.750
we'll come to in a minute uh it was


00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:13.470
called that by William


00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:16.870
Herschel an astronomer back in the early


00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.830
19th century who saw these things uh


00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:21.750
which were clearly not planets because


00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:24.549
they were in the deep sky they they were


00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:26.230
not they were moving with the stars


00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.149
rather than with with planets so they


00:31:28.159 --> 00:31:30.389
weren't in the solar system but they had


00:31:30.399 --> 00:31:32.149
a slightly planetary appearance they


00:31:32.159 --> 00:31:34.470
looked circular uh so he called them


00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.909
planetary nebula and what we discovered


00:31:37.919 --> 00:31:40.230
in the early 20th century is that what


00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.710
we're seeing there is the outer layers


00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.710
of a star which has reached old age and


00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.909
u is not massive enough to explode like


00:31:49.919 --> 00:31:51.830
a supernova


00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:53.830
an exploding star that detonates and


00:31:53.840 --> 00:31:56.070
blows itself to pieces you need to be


00:31:56.080 --> 00:31:57.750
more than about three or four times the


00:31:57.760 --> 00:32:00.630
mass of the sun to do that um in fact 10


00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:03.509
times is probably a better bet uh the


00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.990
star like the sun gets to the end of its


00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.470
life and basically the instabilities


00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.070
that are caused by the fact that it's


00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:12.310
used up most of its hydrogen fuel it


00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:14.870
causes the outer atmosphere to to


00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.789
basically to be shed gently uh and um


00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.870
that produces a a cloud of gas often


00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:24.710
spherical in form sometimes they're


00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.470
hourglass shaped they've got all kinds


00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.110
of different shapes but the Helix Nebula


00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:30.870
in the southern hemisphere sky is the


00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.310
classic example of uh of a of a a


00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:36.070
planetary nebula a star at the end of


00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:37.990
its life it shed its outer layers


00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.230
they're glowing because what's left of


00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.230
the star is a remnant called a white


00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.230
dwarf uh which is uh a a an object the


00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:48.470
size of our planet size of the earth but


00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.149
with the mass of a star so it's very


00:32:50.159 --> 00:32:52.549
very dense um now white dwarfs are


00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:55.190
interesting creatures in their own right


00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.630
but the Helix Nebula has one that is


00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.509
even more interesting than normal


00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.110
because it radiates copiously in X-rays


00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:07.190
and X-rays we have to get above the


00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.230
Earth's atmosphere to detect because the


00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:11.990
atmosphere fortunately absorbs X-rays


00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.710
very um very effectively uh but there


00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.669
have been a number of space satellites


00:33:17.679 --> 00:33:19.350
uh mostly satellites around the earth


00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:21.990
spacecraft that have been essentially


00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.230
used to uh survey the the sky in X-ray


00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.269
emission uh and the Helix Nebula of


00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.590
course has been one of the things that


00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:34.549
uh uh have been looked at with X-rays


00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.470
with a whole series of different


00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.269
satellites um through the you know


00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.350
through the ages uh it it was


00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:46.470
um actually uh first detected by back in


00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.110
the early 1980s by NASA's Einstein


00:33:49.120 --> 00:33:50.990
Observatory which is an an X-ray


00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.350
satellite and there was another one


00:33:53.360 --> 00:33:55.669
called Rossat i guess it comes from


00:33:55.679 --> 00:33:59.430
Rentgun the German word for X-rays after


00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.470
Professor Rengun who discovered them um


00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.590
Rosat in the 19 early 1990s both of


00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:09.349
those spacecraft detected X-rays from uh


00:34:09.359 --> 00:34:11.270
from the Helix Nebula which weren't


00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:14.230
really understood uh now those have been


00:34:14.240 --> 00:34:17.349
followed up um couple of decades later


00:34:17.359 --> 00:34:20.389
NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory in 1999


00:34:20.399 --> 00:34:22.790
and XMM Newton which is a European Space


00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.149
Agency spacecraft in 2002 have recorded


00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:28.550
these copious quantities of X-rays


00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:31.270
coming from the Helix Nebula what is it


00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.430
all about where do they come from how do


00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:35.190
you get something that shouldn't be


00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:37.829
producing X-rays but has you know sort


00:34:37.839 --> 00:34:41.190
of 30 years uh well 20 years anyway of


00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:44.710
of e of strong X-ray emission and so the


00:34:44.720 --> 00:34:46.389
people who think deeply about these


00:34:46.399 --> 00:34:48.710
things the theoretical astronomers and


00:34:48.720 --> 00:34:50.629
some of these uh astronomers in this


00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.310
case uh some are in uh the United States


00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.069
but some are also in Mexico um they they


00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.670
have deduced that what's happening is


00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:05.510
probably a Jupiter sized planet uh maybe


00:35:05.520 --> 00:35:09.349
a bit more than Jupiter uh was uh


00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:12.550
orbiting the star as it reached the end


00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:15.430
of its life carried on orbiting the


00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.510
white dwarf but because of the forces


00:35:17.520 --> 00:35:19.349
involved with the collapse of the star


00:35:19.359 --> 00:35:21.990
to a white dwarf at the end of its life


00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.910
uh that the planet was shredded


00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.630
basically and formed a ring of disc


00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:30.390
sorry a disc of material not a ring of


00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.630
disc that doesn't make sense a disc of


00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:35.349
material around the the around the white


00:35:35.359 --> 00:35:39.030
dwarf which is accelerated to very very


00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:40.870
high velocities the gravitational field


00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.550
of a white dwarf is a bit like a black


00:35:42.560 --> 00:35:45.109
hole not quite as extreme but very


00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:46.710
strong and so you got So this is the


00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:49.589
ghost of a planet exactly yes the debris


00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:51.829
of a planet planetary ghost i love the


00:35:51.839 --> 00:35:55.750
term um it's uh but it it's all it's you


00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.150
know it's basically it's dismembered


00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:00.630
remains are whizzing around this white


00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:04.430
dwarf at high orbital velocity and that


00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:08.069
creates X-rays because of the heating


00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.790
effect of this turbulence that is in the


00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.510
dis of material and that's the theory at


00:36:13.520 --> 00:36:14.950
the moment and it's the best one that


00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.589
we've got as to why the Helix Nebula is


00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.150
so copiously emitting X-rays that it's


00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:23.030
got an unfortunate planet that didn't


00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:26.230
survive the collapse uh and is radiating


00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:29.589
violently in the X-ray wavelengths so


00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.230
rather intriguing story let me see if I


00:36:32.240 --> 00:36:34.390
understand this correctly so I'm looking


00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.589
at this image and it's got kind of a red


00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.510
dot in the middle for those listening if


00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:41.109
you don't see the image you guys can


00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:43.510
look up the Helix Nebula it's a very


00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:45.349
famous photo and you'll see what I'm


00:36:45.359 --> 00:36:47.109
describing it almost looks like a kind


00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:49.270
of like an eye so it's got this red like


00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.349
the Terminator it's got this red dot in


00:36:51.359 --> 00:36:53.030
the middle and then it almost looks like


00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.349
an iris and then it keeps expanding out


00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:57.670
it actually does look exactly like an


00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:00.470
eye now that I look at it but so the


00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.630
planet got sucked into the red which is


00:37:02.640 --> 00:37:05.510
the dwarf and then spun apart like a


00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:08.150
centuge and cuz it looks like it


00:37:08.160 --> 00:37:10.550
exploded from inside out but what's


00:37:10.560 --> 00:37:12.710
happening is it's spinning apart and


00:37:12.720 --> 00:37:15.109
that's why it's surrounding this red and


00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.670
it's spinning and so the gravity is like


00:37:17.680 --> 00:37:19.950
the debris is coming apart from the


00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:23.030
center rather than getting pulled into


00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:24.710
the center is that what I'm am I


00:37:24.720 --> 00:37:25.990
understanding this correctly that's


00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:30.069
right yes that's right so so the the the


00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:33.990
X- radiation is um it you know it's it's


00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.150
sort of pervading the whole of the of


00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:38.390
the nebula you've got X-rays coming from


00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:41.349
every part of it uh or or appearing to


00:37:41.359 --> 00:37:44.470
but but they're being emitted by this


00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.030
object which is actually within it's not


00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.349
visible the disc itself is not visible


00:37:49.359 --> 00:37:52.390
the dis of material that was this planet


00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.430
uh that's too near the white dwarf the


00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:58.470
white dwarf itself uh is is visible in


00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.630
visible in optical images visible light


00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:03.750
images but not in the X-ray image so uh


00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.230
it's a matter of inference along the


00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:08.710
lines that you've just described Heidi


00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:10.710
so maybe you already explained this


00:38:10.720 --> 00:38:12.710
because this doesn't make sense to me


00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:14.630
why so if the gravity is strong enough


00:38:14.640 --> 00:38:17.190
to be keeping these bits and parts


00:38:17.200 --> 00:38:19.990
within its gravity why are why is it


00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.470
still spreading out


00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.550
so the the um the the the the gaseous


00:38:26.560 --> 00:38:30.150
envelope of the star itself


00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:34.150
uh is that was basically emitted over


00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:37.349
many millions probably tens of millions


00:38:37.359 --> 00:38:39.990
hundreds of millions of years before the


00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.630
star collapsed into a white dwarf so


00:38:42.640 --> 00:38:45.910
that's far enough away that um it's not


00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.630
feeling that intense gravity in the you


00:38:48.640 --> 00:38:50.230
know the the the region near to the


00:38:50.240 --> 00:38:51.990
white dwarf itself


00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.630
um it's it's basically drifting off uh


00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:57.589
as uh you know the distances are


00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.030
measured in light years they're not


00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:00.390
they're not measured in millions of


00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.430
kilometers they're very very large


00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:05.670
distances so um yes it's a great


00:39:05.680 --> 00:39:07.990
question though um that so so it's all


00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.910
the stuff that is really within the


00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:11.589
immediate vicinity of the white dwarf


00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.310
that's feeling that acceleration and and


00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:17.589
undergoing that intense orbital uh


00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.310
motion around the white dwarf


00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.670
is this your favorite nebula um uh it it


00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:25.349
probably is actually that's a really


00:39:25.359 --> 00:39:27.349
good question too because I've never


00:39:27.359 --> 00:39:29.109
sort of thought about that there is a


00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:30.790
well-known one in the northern sky which


00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.230
will be visible from Houston called the


00:39:32.240 --> 00:39:36.230
Ring Nebula uh but the Helix Nebula I


00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:37.990
think is a little bit more glamorous


00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.910
because it's got a bit more structure to


00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:41.910
it it's it's got this it's called the


00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:43.990
Helix Nebula because it's it looks a bit


00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:47.190
like a a sort of unwound spring um and


00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:48.710
you can see you're probably having a


00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:50.630
look at the Ring Nebula as we speak


00:39:50.640 --> 00:39:52.470
looking it up oh yeah it's absolutely


00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.950
beautiful that's just stunning


00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.630
so I think maybe this will be a topic


00:39:58.640 --> 00:40:02.870
for um a Q&A or another session but I


00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.630
definitely want to understand more of


00:40:04.640 --> 00:40:07.829
the um the the technology that you said


00:40:07.839 --> 00:40:09.910
your friend developed his name was also


00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.710
Fred uh no david actually is Fred his


00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:15.030
middle name is Frederick frederick okay


00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:19.190
david david Mail yeah so he um just


00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.670
briefly


00:40:20.680 --> 00:40:24.310
uh when the Anglo Australian telescope


00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.550
it's the largest visible light telescope


00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:31.270
on Australian soil uh with a 3.9 m 156


00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.950
in mirror um and he and I both worked


00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.950
there i was the astronomer in charge for


00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.710
20 years in fact but uh before that he


00:40:40.720 --> 00:40:42.710
in fact when the telescope was brand new


00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:45.670
he was taken on board on the stuff he he


00:40:45.680 --> 00:40:47.270
speaks a lot like me because he comes


00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.589
from the north of England uh went to


00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.230
Australia and perfected this technique


00:40:52.240 --> 00:40:55.349
in those days um imaging of astronomical


00:40:55.359 --> 00:40:56.710
objects was done with photographic


00:40:56.720 --> 00:40:58.790
plates and I'm talking about 1975 that's


00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.550
when he went to Australia um and um


00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:05.430
apart from a few experiments with color


00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.390
emulsions normal color film which really


00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.550
didn't work well for astronomical


00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:13.030
objects because color film is designed


00:41:13.040 --> 00:41:15.190
for a very short exposure you know


00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:17.750
you're in a camera you press a button


00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.750
shutter opens and closes again in a 50th


00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.550
of a second and you record the image uh


00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:25.750
astronomers spend hours exposing their


00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:27.589
photographic plates as we did in those


00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.430
days and the the whole you know optical


00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.670
chemical process that makes color


00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:35.910
photography just didn't work and so he


00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.390
designed this technique it actually goes


00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:41.589
back a couple of hundred years um to you


00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.349
know way people thought you can perhaps


00:41:43.359 --> 00:41:45.430
replicate with the red green and blue


00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:47.670
you can replicate a color image and it's


00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:50.550
true you can but it took David's skills


00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:53.030
and hard work to perfect that and the


00:41:53.040 --> 00:41:55.670
result was uh twofold it made the


00:41:55.680 --> 00:41:58.470
telescope very famous because his images


00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.190
found their way onto the front covers of


00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:04.150
magazines and album covers and books uh


00:42:04.160 --> 00:42:06.630
they were all over the world in the 19


00:42:06.640 --> 00:42:09.750
uh 80s early 1980s it made the telescope


00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:11.430
famous and it made him very famous as


00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.710
well uh and he still um is interested in


00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:17.589
this he's now retired he uh doesn't


00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.589
really do any frontline photography


00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:23.030
anymore but occasionally uh we end up in


00:42:23.040 --> 00:42:25.510
involved in scientific discussions about


00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:27.829
all kinds of things so he's still very


00:42:27.839 --> 00:42:30.230
active well it's it's I mean I think


00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:32.390
nebulas I think are probably one of the


00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.230
most beautiful beautiful things in space


00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:36.069
and these images are just breathtaking


00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.150
and to think of the it's it's almost


00:42:38.160 --> 00:42:40.390
impossible to comprehend the scale of a


00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.150
nebula because we just see them on our


00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:44.069
desktop as a beautiful picture but to


00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:45.750
think of the size and the magnitude is


00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:48.309
quite amazing and the contributions of


00:42:48.319 --> 00:42:51.510
the field are really quite incredible


00:42:51.520 --> 00:42:54.790
it's uh it's it's quite astonishing to


00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.870
think of the um conspiracy theorists and


00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:58.710
how they think that these are just you


00:42:58.720 --> 00:43:00.710
know computerenerated images and they're


00:43:00.720 --> 00:43:02.309
like "Oh the scientists are just


00:43:02.319 --> 00:43:03.750
painting the photos to make them look


00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.030
like how they want." And then you're


00:43:05.040 --> 00:43:06.550
telling us stories of how how your


00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:08.790
friend and you put 20 years into just


00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.230
developing these technologies yeah yeah


00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:13.230
that's


00:43:13.240 --> 00:43:16.870
right um look conspiracy theorists are


00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.910
another breed uh we could talk endlessly


00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:24.069
about them but um uh yes uh you know the


00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:27.109
the the the work that David did was


00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.109
really very rigorous to try and make


00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:31.030
sure that what we were seeing was what


00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:33.030
we would see if our eyes were more


00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:35.910
sensitive uh the the the the downside of


00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.950
that Heidi is that um whenever David


00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.870
went anywhere to give give a talk and he


00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:44.309
did that all the time um especially in


00:43:44.319 --> 00:43:47.510
the digital era as things moved on he


00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:49.829
got very upset if the color balance on


00:43:49.839 --> 00:43:53.109
the projector was not to his liking um


00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.829
and indeed he started all his talks and


00:43:55.839 --> 00:43:58.230
I do now too with a with a basically a


00:43:58.240 --> 00:44:00.710
color chart you know a color diagram and


00:44:00.720 --> 00:44:02.870
if it wasn't to his liking he would


00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:04.630
start tinkering with a projector to try


00:44:04.640 --> 00:44:07.190
and make it so and once in a while he


00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:09.270
would refuse to give the talk because it


00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.270
would not show his pictures in the true


00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:12.950
colors that he'd worked so hard to


00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.550
create


00:44:14.560 --> 00:44:17.510
talk about a perfectionist and it's


00:44:17.520 --> 00:44:19.430
things like that you really It just


00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.430
makes the conspiracy theorist sound just


00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.470
that much more silly they think they


00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:25.750
have something figured out because they


00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:29.589
watched a YouTube video yes there you go


00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:32.309
not to end on a negative note with the


00:44:32.319 --> 00:44:34.150
conspiracy theorists and we'll we'll


00:44:34.160 --> 00:44:35.910
take it as we're ending on a positive


00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:37.510
talking about these beautiful beautiful


00:44:37.520 --> 00:44:39.870
nebulas and these incredible


00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.230
contributions to the field and I just


00:44:42.240 --> 00:44:44.950
want to I don't know inspire and


00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:47.589
encourage listeners to if you're a space


00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.230
enthusiast to keep considering all these


00:44:50.240 --> 00:44:52.230
possibilities and if you are someone who


00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.349
works in the field you never know what


00:44:55.359 --> 00:44:57.270
you know you're going to be producing 20


00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:59.430
years from now and what your work is


00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.390
going to do and contribute to humanity


00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.630
and what kind of neuroticism you'll


00:45:04.640 --> 00:45:06.150
develop if you'll never be able to look


00:45:06.160 --> 00:45:08.069
at a projector the same way or if you're


00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.230
just going to become the person who is


00:45:10.240 --> 00:45:12.069
so obsessed with doing this one thing


00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.870
because you've put 20 30 40 years into


00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.750
studying something so incredibly niche


00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.230
um Fred do you have anything else you


00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:24.069
want to add uh not to that story uh just


00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:26.710
to say this has been a wonderful uh


00:45:26.720 --> 00:45:30.230
session i think it's uh episode 509 that


00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:32.550
we've just done


00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:34.870
wow thanks and it's been great talking


00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:36.870
to you Heidi and um I look forward to


00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:39.270
our next chat excellent again thank you


00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:41.589
so much for having me and you have been


00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:44.550
listening to Space Nuts space Nuts


00:45:44.560 --> 00:45:46.630
you've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:48.870
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00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.829
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00:45:51.839 --> 00:45:54.470
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