Cosmic Queries, Jovian Mysteries & Martian Quakes: #494 - The Great Space Q&A | Space Nuts

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Language: en

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hi there thanks for joining us this is a


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Q&A episode of space nuts that's me that


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means there's questions that people ask


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and there are answers that I do not give


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someone else will do that uh but coming


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up we're going to uh we're going to get


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to something we plan to do last week but


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it just uh it was a big question which


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required a lot of effort and a lot of


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answers a lot of research we just sort


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of ran out of time so we'll get that one


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done today uh from Fenton uh car


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is asking about the effects of Light by


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dust clouds or the effects on light uh


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Nigel uh is talking Brown dwarfs and


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Patty Mars Quakes that's all coming up


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in this edition of Space Nuts 15 seconds


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guidance is internal 10 9 ignition


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sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3


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4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts as the nuts


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reported feels good joining us again is


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uh Professor jonty Horner who is a


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professor of astrophysics at the


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University of Southern Queensland a


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horrible part of the world but


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somebody's got to live there haven't


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they jonty absolutely it's a tragedy


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it's glorious here at the minute but we


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could do with a bit of rain that said


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given the amount of rain that's


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happening elsewhere in Australia I'm


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probably glad that we're not getting


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that yes much much further north than


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you are uh up around um near North


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Queensland Townsville area it's it's


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been bucketing down and they've had some


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big floods big FL get my head around the


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concept of getting two meters of rain in


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a couple of days yeah I can't yeah um I


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mean a big rain for us is 80 millimeters


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in an hour yeah that's a big rain uh I


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think the biggest I've ever experienced


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here was 200 millimeters over a weekend


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yeah that was some years ago and that


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caused big floods across the area but uh


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yeah the the the the numbers they're


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talking up there are astronomical and


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um thoughts go to everybody


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affected uh now um we should get


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straight into Fenton's question because


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it's a big one and we'll be back in


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about two or three hours once he's


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finished hey fando this is Fenton uh


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speaking to you from St Paul Minnesota


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in the US on the other side of the


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planet I got some questions for you


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today about radiation now right now we


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have spacecraft that are underway to


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Jupiter and there's a lot of fretting


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about what going to happen and how to


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get them to avoid radiation blasting off


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Jupiter so we have three types of


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radiation alpha beta and gamma if you


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wish I'll leave that up to you to


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explain that to the audience my question


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to you here is what type of radiation is


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that that's coming off of Jupiter is it


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just the alpha particles other words


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just protons hydrogen atoms uh now here


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we go on to IO now IO is also on


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blasting off particles from its surface


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as a result of it being volcanic so I


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guess that means uh we have these charg


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particles coming off do you want to also


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include them in the term of


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radiation now it's also interested in


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what types of particles they have these


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are metals apparently um for example if


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it were iron then and if it were charged


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then iron can be magnetic and that means


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it could possibly be interacting with


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the magnetic field of Jupiter so where's


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that stuff going is it sticking with all


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Jupiter is it heading off Beyond Jupiter


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is it landing on some moons and


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lastly I want to ask you about a


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practical application for this now here


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back on Earth we can deposit metal ions


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from the gas phase onto substrates and


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that has a lot of very useful


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applications it's pretty expensive too


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so what happens if we put a substrate in


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the way in the in in blocking those


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metal ions or metal metal


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particles that are coming off of AO


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could we use that to deposit Metals onto


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a


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surface just a thought I'd love to hear


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what you think about it and what you


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where you take my questions have a great


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week bye now thank you Fenton uh always


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always thinking deeply is is fent and


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his questions are always um multifaceted


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and that one is no


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exception um so he started off talking


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about the different types of radiation


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and uh which which kind is it coming off


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Jupiter yeah I I'll dive through this St


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by St but what I will do initially is


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and it's a fabulous question there's a


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lot in here I'll recommend for the


00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:54.670
interested listener who wants to dig


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into Jupiter's environment a little bit


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more there's a Wikipedia article about


00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.510
jup magnetosphere which is literally


00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:03.870
magnetosphere of Jupiter which is


00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:05.510
incredibly thorough and detailed and


00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:06.870
goes into some of the things we're about


00:05:06.880 --> 00:05:09.749
to discuss in more detail than I will do


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now Wikipedia is a fluid resource it can


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be changed so your experience may vary


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but what would typic typically see is


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for astronomy and space subjects they


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are not controversial but there's enough


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people out there who are incredibly


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passionate about it that when an error


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Creeps in it gets fixed very quickly so


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whilst it's not the most reliable


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resource it can be very very good so I


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do recommend looking into that if you


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want more details on some of the stuff


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we'll discuss but I'll try and pick


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through the many things Fenton said


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there in turn just to try and work


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through them if that makes sense and


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hopefully that'll be helpful Fenton if


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you're listening in firstly when when


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you mention three types of radiation


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you're talking there about alpha beta


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and gamma which are the kinds of


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radiation that people talk about being


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produced by radioactive


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decay and they are three kinds of


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radiation but they're not the entirety


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of what radiation is and they're


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actually different kinds of thing anyway


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so Alpha radiation is essentially helium


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nuclei so two protons and two neutrons


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Su together coming outwards that's F


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substantial particle so that's radiation


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as a particle it's a particle that's


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ejected in this case from a radioactive


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process flung outwards with a certain


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speed and it's carrying energy from one


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place to another in the form of the


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particle itself moving at that speed


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from A to B beta radiation is electrons


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essenti so much less massive typically


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traveling much faster that are again


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produced by radioactive decay quite


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often in other processes alpha particles


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are positively charged because they've


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got protons in but no electrons beta


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radiation is negatively charged because


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it's got electrons in and then gamma


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radiation is very high energy


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electromagnetic radiation so that's the


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top end of the electromagnetic spectrum


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which also features light that I'm using


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to look at Andrew while I waffle away


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here and see him nodding unwisely


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so there are different bits of radiation


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essentially at the very simplest end you


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talk about radiation just being energy


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being moved from one place to another


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and that can be done by waves or


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particles so with a very extreme stretch


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you could probably argue that when you


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go outside and you turn the hose pipe on


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and you have a jet and that water is


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going from one place to another that's


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form of radiation it's energy being


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moved from one place to another so


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there's a lot of different ways that


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energy can be transferred in this way


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and light in its many forms is one of


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them so that's everything from gamma


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rays at the high energy end to radio


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waves at low energy end with Optical and


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microwave and infrared in the middle


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somewhere so there's a lot to radiation


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there now there's a couple of things


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happening with Jupiter firstly you talk


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about the radiation coming off Jupiter


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now if you think about Jupiter the


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planet itself it's sometimes said that


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Jupiter emits more energy than it


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receives from the Sun and that's a


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leftover from Jupiter's formation from


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all the material coming into it the


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gravitational relaxation of it


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essentially that is energy emitted in


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the form of electromagnetic radiation so


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light essentially of various wavelengths


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it will emit as what we call a black


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body so it'll have one particular color


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of light that it emits out more strongly


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and whether you go Bluer or redder of


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that color it will emit more weakly as


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you go further away so that's stup to


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emitting energy but it's also surrounded


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by an incredibly intense magnetic field


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much stronger than the Earths so hop to


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the Earth briefly one of the challenges


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that people face when they fly


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satellites around the earth is that


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there are these radiation belts around


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the earth called the vanum belts and


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they were proposed just prior to the


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space edge and then detected by the


00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:45.430
first


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satellites what's going on there is that


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the Earth has a magnetic field around it


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that interacts with the magnetic field


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of the sun and the rest of the solar


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system and we've got this area around


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the earth called magnetosphere and the


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magnetosphere is sculpted and shaped by


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what's going on elsewhere now in the


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case of the earth you've got solar


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radiation in the form of charged


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particles as part of the solar wind


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buffeting against that magnetosphere


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penetrating in and when you have


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particles that have charge whether


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they're positively or negatively charged


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they interact with magnetic fields so


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they will follow the direction of the


00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:22.069
magnetic field lines and our


00:09:22.079 --> 00:09:23.870
magnetosphere Shields us from a lot of


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the radiation like that because it goes


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around the earth rather than hitting it


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but some of the radiation in the form of


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charged particles that penetrates the


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magnetic field then gets trapped in the


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magnetic field in these belts that we


00:09:35.880 --> 00:09:38.069
call the vanan belts which are areas


00:09:38.079 --> 00:09:39.350
where you have a lot of charged


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particles moving around at high speed


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trapped in these belts around the earth


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between a few hundred and a few tens of


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thousands kilometers above the Earth's


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surface those are areas where if you fly


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a spacecraft through there there's a lot


00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:55.509
of charged particles crushing into your


00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:57.990
spacecraft at high speed that can damage


00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.509
the electronics to circuitry in


00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:02.430
particular is very sensitive to this and


00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:04.350
gradually damage your spacecraft and


00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.630
take it out of operation so that's the


00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:08.310
radiation environment around the earth


00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:09.430
and they're trying to avoid going


00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:12.069
through the VY and belts as a result


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Jupiter's the same Jupiter has a much


00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:17.069
more intense magnetic field so it can


00:10:17.079 --> 00:10:19.069
have a much more significant area of


00:10:19.079 --> 00:10:21.509
radiation belts and those radiation


00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.430
belts correspond roughly with the


00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.509
location of the large moons particularly


00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:29.949
Europa and I so in that area


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when you're a spacecraft moving through


00:10:31.640 --> 00:10:33.990
there you're moving through a soup of


00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.790
highspeed charged particles that are


00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:38.350
continually bombarding your spacecraft


00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.670
degrading it damaging it and of course


00:10:40.680 --> 00:10:42.030
they're particularly damaging to the


00:10:42.040 --> 00:10:44.230
electrical componentry so you want to


00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.910
spend as little time as you can though


00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:47.550
and that's essentially what the concern


00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:49.949
is for the scientists who are sending


00:10:49.959 --> 00:10:52.910
spacecraft to Jupiter so that's what's


00:10:52.920 --> 00:10:55.310
going on there added to that though


00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:56.990
you've got the vulcanism from I which


00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.710
Fenton mentions and F Fenton quite right


00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.990
I is erupting continuously volcanically


00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.670
into that radiation environment around


00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:07.990
Jupiter adding I think some quotes say


00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.150
up to 1,000 kilos per second of new


00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:13.750
material into that environment now the


00:11:13.760 --> 00:11:15.590
atoms that are launched out of I by this


00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.470
vulcanism are things like sulfur oxygen


00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.550
sulfur dioxide all these kind of things


00:11:21.560 --> 00:11:23.509
that initially in molecules and atoms


00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.629
but are very quickly ionized so they


00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.230
have an electron knocked off colliding


00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:29.870
with this charge particle


00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:31.350
which suddenly means you've got sulfur


00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.150
ions oxygen ions sodium ions all


00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:35.910
floating around in the magnetic field so


00:11:35.920 --> 00:11:38.670
iio is dumping even more charged


00:11:38.680 --> 00:11:41.949
particles into that radiation belt those


00:11:41.959 --> 00:11:43.910
charged particles from IO incidentally


00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:45.629
flow along Jupiter's magnetic field


00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.269
lines and crash into the Jovian poles


00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.470
creating hotpots of Aurora so there are


00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.269
Aurora on Jupiter that are directly


00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.350
linked to iio and to a lesser extent


00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.590
europ and ganam you can see them if you


00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.230
look at Aurora maps of Jupiter that has


00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.629
spacecraft to C Park so you get this


00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.629
flux Taurus connecting IO to the poles


00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:06.430
of Jupiter which is the charged


00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:07.790
particles flowing along the magnetic


00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:09.310
field lines and crashing into Jupiter's


00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.750
poles so that's how io's shipping in


00:12:11.760 --> 00:12:14.350
it's just adding more soup to the mix


00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.629
essentially moving on to the metals been


00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:19.030
magnetic I've tried to get through all


00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:21.150
the points yeah I just thought it was


00:12:21.160 --> 00:12:24.030
fascinating that that there's such an


00:12:24.040 --> 00:12:25.870
effect happening around Jupiter unlike


00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:27.870
the the like we see similar effects with


00:12:27.880 --> 00:12:30.870
the Aurora boralis and Aurora arral but


00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:34.030
different reasons um same effect so


00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:35.949
you'll have Aurora on Jupiter that would


00:12:35.959 --> 00:12:37.629
cause the same way as the Aurora on


00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.069
Earth but you also have iio europ and


00:12:40.079 --> 00:12:42.509
ganam cooking their own Aurora as well


00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:46.269
so it's complicated I think yeah is um


00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.269
with the metals being magnetic there's a


00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.189
couple of things there to mention you're


00:12:50.199 --> 00:12:52.069
entirely right that metals like iron and


00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:54.189
nickel can become permanently magnetized


00:12:54.199 --> 00:12:56.430
and this is something called pherom


00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.389
magnetism um now I'm not a specialist on


00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.150
magnetism by any means and one of the


00:13:01.160 --> 00:13:02.910
common jokes in astronomy is if if you


00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:04.430
want to ask a question at a conference


00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:05.949
it's almost certainly have you


00:13:05.959 --> 00:13:07.910
considered magnetic fields and the


00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:09.430
answer is almost certainly no because


00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.829
it's just complicated there's actually a


00:13:11.839 --> 00:13:14.829
few types of magnetism that involves


00:13:14.839 --> 00:13:16.990
physical materials out there pherom


00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.710
magnetism is the most famous it's the


00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:20.629
one that's easiest to observe with


00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.829
magnets but that kind of interaction


00:13:23.839 --> 00:13:25.389
with magnetic fields is not what we're


00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:26.990
talking about here so we're not talking


00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.629
about solid lumps of a metal interacting


00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.389
with the magnetic field we're talking


00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:33.269
about individual atoms and molecules


00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.350
that have been ionized and they're


00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:36.870
interacting with the magnetic field not


00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:38.350
because they are magnetic but because


00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.590
they're electrically charged and it is a


00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:41.750
subtle difference but it's worth


00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:42.910
flagging out that there are two


00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:45.509
different things there now the practical


00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.150
application you talk about about having


00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:49.629
something there for all this stuff to


00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.030
smack into is exactly what they're doing


00:13:52.040 --> 00:13:54.030
so if you've got your spacecraft with


00:13:54.040 --> 00:13:55.670
all this valuable Electronics on it you


00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:57.189
want it to live as long as possible at


00:13:57.199 --> 00:13:59.749
Jupiter so it costs a lot to get


00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:01.829
there and they're doing two things


00:14:01.839 --> 00:14:03.749
simultaneously to maximize the lifetime


00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.550
of these missions the first adds weight


00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:08.389
and therefore adds cost but essentially


00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.350
for EUR up a Clipper the entire


00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.269
instrument suite and everything that


00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:15.150
does the science that they can protect


00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:17.350
is enclosed in this hard shell which is


00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.230
made of about 100 kilograms of titanium


00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.110
so titanium very dense is like a


00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.230
protective shield around it I guess


00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:25.629
serving much the same role that your


00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:26.829
windscreen does when you're driving


00:14:26.839 --> 00:14:28.509
through a rainstorm the water hits your


00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:29.829
windscreen rather than hitting you in


00:14:29.839 --> 00:14:32.710
the face same kind of idea so that's


00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:33.990
part of how they're solving it which is


00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.710
exactly what Fenton was talking about


00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:38.269
with having the ions and stuff Splat


00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:39.870
into something and cting them


00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:41.790
essentially the other thing they do is


00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:43.350
linked to bandwidth and this is a


00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:44.790
perennial issue in Australia with the


00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:46.350
quality of the national Broadband


00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.470
Network and with things like starlink


00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.150
you want as much bandwidth as you can to


00:14:50.160 --> 00:14:52.590
transmit data around and the bandwidth


00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.030
you get back from Jupiter is pretty low


00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:57.389
because you're so far away basically the


00:14:57.399 --> 00:14:59.110
further away You're broadcasting from


00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.590
the low your bandwidth is and it turns


00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.150
out that we don't have broadcasting


00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:06.030
equipment on these satellites on these


00:15:06.040 --> 00:15:07.910
spacecraft strong enough to send back


00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:10.350
the data in real time the rate at which


00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:12.069
you get data is much higher than the


00:15:12.079 --> 00:15:14.470
rate at which you can send it home so


00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.829
what that means is if you went into


00:15:15.839 --> 00:15:18.310
orbit around Europa you would be


00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.030
gathering data much more quickly than


00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:21.990
you can send it back and then when your


00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.910
spacecraft dies you've lost all of your


00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:26.509
data so you want to maximize the amount


00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.629
of time you can spend Gathering data


00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.389
that we get back and the way they'


00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.110
solved that partially is by having the


00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.550
cladding the protection that titanium


00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:37.269
cell but that's why they've opted to


00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.590
instead of orbiting Europa to move on a


00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.990
highly elongated orbit around Jupiter


00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.269
and have flybys because the amount of


00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.110
data they can Gathering a 1 hour flyby


00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:47.629
might take them several days or a week


00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:49.949
to broadcast back home if you're just


00:15:49.959 --> 00:15:51.470
sat around Europa waiting for that to


00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:53.550
happen your space grass getting cooked


00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:55.069
but if you move on a highly elongated


00:15:55.079 --> 00:15:56.550
orbit around juper you spend most of


00:15:56.560 --> 00:15:58.990
your time on an elongated orbit near the


00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:00.309
furthest point on let orbit from the


00:16:00.319 --> 00:16:01.389
thing you're going around that's when


00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.430
you move slowest so you can have your


00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.110
spacecraft duck in for a very fast flyby


00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.069
then fly back out of the radiation belt


00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:09.949
and spend most of its time safe and not


00:16:09.959 --> 00:16:11.990
getting cooked while it broadcasts back


00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.269
to Earth and by doing that you maximize


00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:16.749
the amount of time the spacecraft can


00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.350
live to take data and give it back to


00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.110
you so you get the maximum yield from


00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.430
your spacecraft and the shielding just


00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.470
helps accentuate that so I think Fenton


00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:28.990
I've ticked off every point you've made


00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.870
there I apologize that that was a an


00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:32.990
epic wall of ver verbal gibberish from


00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.389
me but hopefully I've covered everything


00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.829
with a lot of johy waffle there yes


00:16:36.839 --> 00:16:40.749
indeed now well unpacked I will say and


00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.389
thanks Fenton hope we covered your uh


00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.189
questions adequately we we strive for


00:16:47.199 --> 00:16:50.230
adequacy here at Space Nuts as you know


00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.910
uh and you are listening to a Q&A


00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:54.269
edition of space nuts with Andrew Dunley


00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:59.189
and Johny Horner


00:16:59.199 --> 00:17:03.910
two one Space Nuts our next question


00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:07.270
comes from somebody whose name I can't


00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:11.230
find right at the moment but uh oh it's


00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.150
Kerry from Mount Gambia uh as I


00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.909
understand it light refracts because the


00:17:15.919 --> 00:17:18.829
speed of light in matter EG glass is


00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.470
slower than in vacuum I also understand


00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.870
that we judge the distance slage of the


00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.949
universe uh objects by addressing their


00:17:26.959 --> 00:17:29.430
light red shift I therefore prese light


00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:31.470
refraction impacts the red


00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.669
shift uh so the question is do the gas


00:17:35.679 --> 00:17:39.230
clouds in space slow light down I.E


00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.430
impact the red shift if yes how is the


00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.630
impact of these dust clouds on the red


00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.950
shift we use for Universal distances uh


00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.430
allowed for in the determining of the


00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:54.310
age of the universe's objects yes it's a


00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:56.350
fabulous question and a really good


00:17:56.360 --> 00:17:59.230
observation there so the difference here


00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.510
is going to be that when the light


00:18:01.520 --> 00:18:03.270
enters that gas cloud it will slow down


00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:05.029
a little bit now it's not very much


00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.390
because the density of the gas cloud is


00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.870
incredibly low so it's a barely


00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.070
perceptible change but when it leaves


00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:12.070
again it will speed back up again so


00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:15.149
there's no net impact on the red shift


00:18:15.159 --> 00:18:16.590
essentially the light coming out of the


00:18:16.600 --> 00:18:18.870
gas cloud will be at the same wavelength


00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:20.710
it was when it went in even though when


00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.630
it was going through the gas cloud it


00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:24.870
would have been slowed down a bit the


00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:26.630
red shift itself is essentially down to


00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.430
the stretching of the universe that's


00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.750
kind of how I always envisage it so the


00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:32.310
more stretched the light is the redder


00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:34.510
it gets and that is an effect that's


00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:36.110
independent of the material that it's


00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:40.110
going through now what you could imagine


00:18:40.120 --> 00:18:41.630
happening is that let's say you know we


00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:43.149
were in the middle of a dense gas cloud


00:18:43.159 --> 00:18:45.029
at the minute then all of the light


00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:46.510
reaching us would be very slightly


00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:48.029
shifted to the red but it would only be


00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.630
a tiny tiny tiny little effect whereas


00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.070
the red shifts were measuring are much


00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:53.950
more substantive and much more


00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.270
substantial so you are right that the


00:18:57.280 --> 00:18:58.909
speed of light changes as it goes


00:18:58.919 --> 00:19:00.950
through clouds and in fact and I'm a


00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.750
little wooly on this so apologies to any


00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:04.350
radio astronomers who are listening but


00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:07.029
I remember a talk a few years ago that


00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.270
was looking at supern noi and things


00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.270
like that and talking about getting a


00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:15.950
feel for the amount of gas clouds on our


00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.470
line of sight to an object where you had


00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.070
an object that had been lensed so you


00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:21.710
had two different images of the same


00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.549
object coming through different paths to


00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.149
us and seeing the difference in timing


00:19:26.159 --> 00:19:28.789
of a certain event at Radio wavelengths


00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.350
because one of those paths had gone


00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:32.310
through more gas clouds than the other


00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:33.909
so you have the same Pulse arriving at


00:19:33.919 --> 00:19:36.270
slightly different times because it have


00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:38.630
moved slower through the gas clouds so


00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.990
that's why you do get this effect and I


00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.510
found that talk fascinating even though


00:19:42.520 --> 00:19:44.230
I'll quite happily admit I a lot of it's


00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.990
lost on me both in time and distance in


00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.230
the past so it does impact things there


00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:50.590
but it doesn't really impact the red


00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:51.750
shift because when you leave the gas


00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:54.029
cloud you speed back up and also because


00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.350
the degree of change is very very


00:19:56.360 --> 00:20:00.190
small okay there you go um fairly simple


00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.549
answer to that one and Carrie thanks for


00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.870
sending it in uh let's go to our next


00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.590
audio question from


00:20:07.600 --> 00:20:10.190
Nigel hi Fred and Andrew this is Nigel


00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.510
from Brisbane Australia I recently heard


00:20:12.520 --> 00:20:16.390
a report on both uh astronomy daily and


00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.789
um yourselves on Space Nuts it was a


00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.950
story about a newly discovered binary


00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.750
brown dwarf uh system discovered uh I


00:20:28.760 --> 00:20:33.190
think it was called gisa


00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.789
299b anyway binary star systems got me


00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:41.230
thinking are they destined to collide so


00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.149
should we expect the two brown dwarves


00:20:45.159 --> 00:20:48.990
to um meet and form as


00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.669
one and the second question is if they


00:20:51.679 --> 00:20:52.990
did um


00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.990
Collide and form one star would they be


00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.470
big enough in Mass to create one


00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.830
star okay thanks for taking my question


00:21:04.840 --> 00:21:07.549
love the show keep up the good work by


00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:09.230
thanks Nel he's just down the road from


00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.710
you jonty you're not far away at all he


00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:12.909
probably could have come in and given


00:21:12.919 --> 00:21:16.149
you that question absolutely so lazy of


00:21:16.159 --> 00:21:20.269
him um so we're talking about a binary


00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:24.190
brown dwarf system and will they Collide


00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.070
that was the first part of his question


00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:28.269
so a few little parts to that and the


00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.470
answer to that is almost certainly no


00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.310
but and there's always a but so if you


00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:36.269
imagine initially that you had those two


00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.630
brown dwars orbiting one another totally


00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:40.990
separate from the rest of the universe


00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.149
so nothing else was


00:21:43.159 --> 00:21:45.549
interfering then the two would just


00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:47.549
continue orbiting as they are


00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.789
essentially forever because you've got


00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.830
nothing to dissipate energy to slow them


00:21:51.840 --> 00:21:53.390
down to make them spiral


00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.750
inwards gets a bit more complicated


00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:58.070
though in that there are things that can


00:21:58.080 --> 00:21:59.950
change the orbits to do with interaction


00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:01.750
now these all tend to require things to


00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:03.350
be closed together so if the brand wolfs


00:22:03.360 --> 00:22:05.549
are really far apart that's pretty much


00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:06.830
the end of the story unless there's


00:22:06.840 --> 00:22:08.789
something else in the system whose


00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.149
gravity is perturbing them but let's say


00:22:11.159 --> 00:22:12.870
you can bring the objects close enough


00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:14.269
together and this isn't just a case for


00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.070
brown R incidentally it works for other


00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:19.789
things as well if you have these objects


00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:21.669
rotating and they're closed enough


00:22:21.679 --> 00:22:23.549
together they can tidy interact with one


00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.430
another and their orbits can change as a


00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:28.070
result of that tidal interaction and


00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:30.230
we've talked about this before with the


00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:31.870
fact that the Moon is moving away from


00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.350
the earth the moon has one face pointed


00:22:34.360 --> 00:22:35.669
towards the Earth all the time but the


00:22:35.679 --> 00:22:37.510
Earth is slowly spinning slower and


00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:39.870
slower and the Moon is moving away as a


00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.070
result so that's the tidal interaction


00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:44.350
between the two acting to change the


00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:46.630
orbit of the moon now because the moon's


00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:48.230
orbital period is longer than the time


00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.070
it takes the Earth to rotate that


00:22:51.080 --> 00:22:53.190
process is acting to cause the moon to


00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:55.590
move away from the earth not towards us


00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:57.909
but if you went to Mars the innermost of


00:22:57.919 --> 00:23:01.630
Mars is which is furbos is closer to Ms


00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.870
than that cor rotation speed so furbos


00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:05.549
orbits with an orbital period quicker


00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.149
than Ma's spin R so the tidal


00:23:08.159 --> 00:23:10.310
interaction between those is causing fos


00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:12.430
to actually slow down in its orbit for


00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:14.070
its orbit to get quicker and quicker and


00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:16.230
closer and closer and will eventually


00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:18.029
cause fobos to crash into Mars while


00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:20.070
they'll probably break apart form a ring


00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:21.870
and bits of It Will Rain Down On Mars in


00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.230
20 to 50 million years in the future um


00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:26.789
and and if I'm having a brain fat and


00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:28.750
it's actually Dem spiraling in my


00:23:28.760 --> 00:23:30.230
apologies but I think F boss is the


00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:31.350
closer of the two and that's someone


00:23:31.360 --> 00:23:34.470
spirling in so you can get these tital


00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.909
interactions when you're close enough


00:23:36.919 --> 00:23:38.549
that can cause the orbit to change but


00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.029
you'll only move inwards if the orbital


00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:43.630
period is shorter than the rotation


00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.669
period if the orbital period is longer


00:23:45.679 --> 00:23:47.110
than the rotation period you'll move the


00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:48.669
other way and you'll move


00:23:48.679 --> 00:23:51.630
away the final thing that can happen


00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.669
well another way it can happen is you


00:23:54.679 --> 00:23:58.070
see this for evolved Stars so if a star


00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:00.710
has a companion and the star gets to the


00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.149
end of its life and swells up to become


00:24:02.159 --> 00:24:04.669
a red giant it can get bigger and then


00:24:04.679 --> 00:24:06.390
the companion can be moving through the


00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.029
gas in the envelope of that other Stell


00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:09.870
which provides a headwind and that can


00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.510
cause it spiraling towards a close


00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:13.710
encounter as well now sometimes that


00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.269
will just lead to one star numbing up


00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.789
another one and devouring it and that's


00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.549
all good but sometimes what that leaves


00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.110
you with is two evolved Stars very close


00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:24.149
together and that can be we see with


00:24:24.159 --> 00:24:25.710
binary neutron stars binary white


00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.590
dwarves Partnerships between black holes


00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:30.190
and neutron stars all sorts in recent


00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:31.070
years there have been all these


00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:33.350
detection of gravitational waves from


00:24:33.360 --> 00:24:35.669
colliding stars and they're all from


00:24:35.679 --> 00:24:37.269
black holes colliding with each other or


00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:39.470
neutron stars colliding with each other


00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.310
and that's because two black holes or


00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:43.750
the two neutron stars are very massive


00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:46.190
but they're also very close together so


00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:47.990
there are effects that are explained in


00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.630
general relativity and essentially make


00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.590
my head hurt that cause a loss of energy


00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:54.950
from the binary as it radiates away


00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.630
gravitational waves that causes the


00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.430
orbits to SP inwards the closer in they


00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.110
get the more pronounce this effect is so


00:25:02.120 --> 00:25:04.549
you get this runaway collapse of the two


00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:05.789
orbits and they end up hitting each


00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:07.750
other in a big burst of gravitational


00:25:07.760 --> 00:25:09.870
waves I think it's unlikely that will


00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:11.590
apply to Brown W but that's another way


00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:14.230
they could spiral in so coming back out


00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.470
from that in general if they're quite


00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.269
far apart there is no risk of them ever


00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:20.110
colliding if they're really close


00:25:20.120 --> 00:25:22.430
together it's possible now the final bit


00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.789
about could they turn into a star is all


00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.269
about the mass you get if you have


00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:28.590
enough mass then the temp temperature


00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:30.389
and pressure in the car will get in the


00:25:30.399 --> 00:25:32.590
car will get high enough for hydrogen


00:25:32.600 --> 00:25:35.310
Fusion sta hydrogen to turn to helium


00:25:35.320 --> 00:25:36.789
and that's when it will really turn on


00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:39.470
as a star now if you had two very


00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.230
massive brand dwarfs that are reach not


00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.230
quite massive enough to be a star and


00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:44.830
you add them together you'd certainly be


00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:46.710
massive enough to be a star and you


00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:49.149
might be able to cross that threshold


00:25:49.159 --> 00:25:51.590
now we do see some examples of objects


00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:53.149
out there that are thought to probably


00:25:53.159 --> 00:25:55.470
be cases where two stars have merged and


00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:57.870
form a more massive star that looks out


00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:00.230
of place and where this all SS in my


00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.269
mind are these objects called globular


00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.350
clusters these massive spherical


00:26:04.360 --> 00:26:06.510
clusters of stars that are incredibly


00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:08.549
old they're among the oldest things in


00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.990
the galaxy and famous examples in our


00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.510
Southern Sky things like Omega centor 47


00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:15.909
Tani things like this so you've got a


00:26:15.919 --> 00:26:17.830
spherical ball of stars held together


00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:19.909
under Gravity that is very old and


00:26:19.919 --> 00:26:21.950
because those clusters are very old you


00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:23.990
don't expect them to have massive blue


00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.029
stars in them because there's been no


00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.830
star formation recently and stars that a


00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:30.909
massive blue live fast and die up yeah


00:26:30.919 --> 00:26:32.630
so they should be gone but there's a


00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:34.029
small group of stars that have been


00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:36.190
identified called blue strugglers and


00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:37.909
the call strugglers because they should


00:26:37.919 --> 00:26:40.149
not be there and for a long time there


00:26:40.159 --> 00:26:41.669
was puzzlement as to where these have


00:26:41.679 --> 00:26:43.029
come from and I think the currently


00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.669
accepted wisdom is a blue struggler is


00:26:45.679 --> 00:26:48.070
what you get when you get two small or


00:26:48.080 --> 00:26:49.750
less massive and therefore longer lived


00:26:49.760 --> 00:26:52.149
stars that have merged forming a more


00:26:52.159 --> 00:26:53.669
massive star that burns brighter and


00:26:53.679 --> 00:26:55.990
hotter so you see what looks like a


00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.669
young hot star that is a product of two


00:26:58.679 --> 00:27:02.230
older cool Stars merging so you can get


00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.190
things that are Stellar size or stellam


00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.590
mass merging with one another to form a


00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:09.190
star but it's unlikely to happen with


00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:11.710
any given set of brown


00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.750
dwars okay yeah I get it actually that


00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:17.269
all made perfect sense um actually I saw


00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.630
a story last or the other day about a


00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:21.190
young hot star that didn't win any


00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.110
Grammys


00:27:23.120 --> 00:27:25.269
so need more


00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:29.029
hydrogen yes yes um thank you Nigel


00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.669
hopefully we covered everything with


00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:32.480
your brown dwarf


00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:34.310
[Music]


00:27:34.320 --> 00:27:37.029
analogy okay we check all four systems


00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.789
and a Space Nuts uh finally a text


00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:42.870
question from Patty I I'm going to


00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.750
assume this is Patty the roof Tyler but


00:27:44.760 --> 00:27:46.230
it could be wrong it could be more than


00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.750
one patty listening to us especially if


00:27:47.760 --> 00:27:50.230
it's Ireland but I got a feeling this


00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.430
this is the Australian version love the


00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.630
show keep up the great work uh since the


00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.110
episode on Mars Quakes I've been


00:27:56.120 --> 00:27:58.630
thinking about their Origins we know


00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:00.110
that the orbits of all the planets are


00:28:00.120 --> 00:28:02.950
slow slowly expanding meaning that they


00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.909
are moving away from the Sun and they're


00:28:05.919 --> 00:28:09.630
cooling now given that a molten rock


00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.870
cools crystals form and the slower it


00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.549
cools the larger the crystals could it


00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.230
be possible that the internal structure


00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.430
of Mars is laced with veins of


00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.830
crystallizing rock that is fracturing


00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:24.509
which um is the instrument for the


00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:26.870
Quakes shortly after the Mars Quakes


00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.430
episode there were reports of the


00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.110
possibility of water below the surface


00:28:30.120 --> 00:28:32.389
of Mars uh this made me think that


00:28:32.399 --> 00:28:34.710
perhaps the Quakes may be the result of


00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.230
liquid water freezing thus expanding and


00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.630
fracturing the surrounding rock this


00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:41.029
thought of the internal structure of


00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.430
Mars being fractured led me to the


00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.750
question of is it possible that Mars


00:28:45.760 --> 00:28:48.509
could break up and if so is it possible


00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.750
that this process could uh be the origin


00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:54.509
of the asteroid belt uh when another


00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:57.590
planet broke up uh as its orbit drifted


00:28:57.600 --> 00:29:00.149
further away from the Sun thank you both


00:29:00.159 --> 00:29:03.870
and uh thank you to Hugh cheers Patty uh


00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.269
he's been thinking a lot about this um I


00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.509
I would suspect that Mars breaking up


00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:13.710
would not be likely due to gravity yeah


00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:16.190
gravity winds for Mars for yes I figured


00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.190
that but uh internal movement you know


00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.389
the the cooling of the planet perhaps or


00:29:21.399 --> 00:29:24.830
the expansion of Frozen ice interesting


00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:26.549
the there's a lot of interesting stuff


00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.630
to on Puck here so


00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.870
the effect of an object cooling causing


00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.389
some degree of quakes is actually fairly


00:29:34.399 --> 00:29:36.789
well established I think now what needs


00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.310
to be remembered is that most things


00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:40.430
when they cool actually contract water


00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:42.470
is really unusual in the water ice


00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.470
that's near zero is bigger than the same


00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:46.509
volume of liquid water at the same


00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:48.789
temperature for most materials they're


00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.230
actually smaller the cooler they get um


00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.950
so what this is led to is on the moon


00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.830
and on Mercury there are evidence of


00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:58.269
very unusual faulting structures which


00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:00.269
are thought to be the result of the


00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.830
Interior Cooling and shrinking and then


00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:04.430
you get this cracking of the surface as


00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.789
the surface tries to drop essentially


00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.389
and that of course leads to Quakes and I


00:30:08.399 --> 00:30:10.630
believe that um quite a number of the


00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.830
Quakes are DET detected on the moon are


00:30:12.840 --> 00:30:15.149
thought to have this kind of origin


00:30:15.159 --> 00:30:17.430
you've then got the kind of freeze th


00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.070
processes that we see you know growing


00:30:19.080 --> 00:30:21.350
up in the UK the rods I get pool far


00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:22.950
worse than we get here in Queensland


00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:24.750
even though all the locals on the


00:30:24.760 --> 00:30:26.549
Facebook groups keep complaining about


00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:28.110
the Pooles here which always makes me


00:30:28.120 --> 00:30:30.590
laugh the reason we get so many potholes


00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:32.750
up in the UK is because of free saw so


00:30:32.760 --> 00:30:34.230
if you get a very narrow crack and you


00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.230
get water in it that water then freezes


00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.710
it becomes ice and it expands which is


00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.070
unusual like I said water behaves oddly


00:30:42.080 --> 00:30:43.509
and that fractures the road so you get


00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:46.269
this runaway fracturing of the surface


00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.950
this on a different scale you also see


00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.830
in the degradation of rocks in places


00:30:50.840 --> 00:30:52.870
like the high alks because as rocks heat


00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.230
up and cool down they expand and


00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.190
contract and that leads to cracking and


00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.549
fracturing


00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.029
this is an important process


00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:01.430
particularly for my favorite meteor


00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.750
shower the Geminids the Geminids have a


00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:05.470
parent object that is fighton which is


00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.350
often described as a rock Comet and phon


00:31:08.360 --> 00:31:10.029
has ridiculous temperature ranges


00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:11.389
through its orbit when it's nearest to


00:31:11.399 --> 00:31:14.149
Sun it's about 750 degrees when it's


00:31:14.159 --> 00:31:15.750
furthest from the sun it's 100 degrees


00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:17.870
below freezing and more and that's a


00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:19.590
huge range of temperatures over a couple


00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:22.629
of years and one of the explanations for


00:31:22.639 --> 00:31:24.830
the Gemini me shower is that the rocks


00:31:24.840 --> 00:31:27.389
on Fon are persistently being cracked


00:31:27.399 --> 00:31:29.389
and fra Ed by this freeze saw attp


00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:31.430
process by the heating and cooling and


00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.029
then the dust gets kicked off the


00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.830
surface of the asteroid spreading out


00:31:34.840 --> 00:31:36.350
into space to give us a debris stream


00:31:36.360 --> 00:31:38.710
that we get for the meteor shower so


00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.230
there is a lot to that there in terms of


00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.830
the Quakes on Mars I think that a lot of


00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:47.509
them are being linked we've got the ones


00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.310
that are linked to impact so asteroid


00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:50.990
hits Mars and marins like a bell and you


00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.430
get a Mars quick you then have ones that


00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.830
we talked about before which are linked


00:31:54.840 --> 00:31:57.350
to that kind of residual tectonic energy


00:31:57.360 --> 00:31:58.430
and the Heat


00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:00.430
movement within Mars but I think there


00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:01.830
have been suggestions that some of them


00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:03.470
are probably also down to the cooling of


00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.350
the interior and that kind of cracking


00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:07.629
and faulting so it is a process that


00:32:07.639 --> 00:32:09.190
would come into play


00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.750
there however it's probably not what


00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:13.909
calls the asteroid belt so the asteroid


00:32:13.919 --> 00:32:15.950
belt is often portrayed in canoun of


00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:17.430
Science Fiction as a planet that was


00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:19.470
destroyed and it's probably fairer to


00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.070
describe it as a planet that never got


00:32:21.080 --> 00:32:24.310
to be the total mass of the astroid belt


00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:25.950
as we see it now is way less than the


00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.590
moon but it was more in the past


00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:30.710
but Jupiter's the villain here so when


00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:31.870
the planets were


00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.149
forming Jupiter formed quicker because


00:32:34.159 --> 00:32:35.389
it's a little bit beyond what we call


00:32:35.399 --> 00:32:37.950
the snow line so all the water that's


00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.230
out there and as we said earlier in the


00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:41.110
podcast water is one of the most common


00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:43.629
molecules in the universe Jupiter was


00:32:43.639 --> 00:32:45.269
Far Enough From the Sun that that water


00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:46.629
was Ice whereas in the inner solar


00:32:46.639 --> 00:32:48.830
system it was gas so suddenly when


00:32:48.840 --> 00:32:50.310
you've got water ice you've got a lot


00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:51.990
more solid material to build planets


00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.710
from so Jupiter grew really quickly and


00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.430
as it Mass got bigger its gravitational


00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.990
reach got got more impactful and it


00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:01.509
started stirring up the ashid belt that


00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.070
excitation meant that the average orbits


00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:06.269
of the asids were stirred up more and so


00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:07.629
instead of the collisions between them


00:33:07.639 --> 00:33:09.070
being gentle enough to stick together


00:33:09.080 --> 00:33:10.149
they entered a range where the


00:33:10.159 --> 00:33:11.950
collisions are destructive instead


00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:13.430
they're cliding hard enough to smash


00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.430
apart so Jupiter Abridged the formation


00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:18.750
of a planet in that region by stirring


00:33:18.760 --> 00:33:20.190
things up so much that they couldn't


00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.870
Collide and acret anymore so the Astro


00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.830
Bell isn't so much a planet that broke


00:33:24.840 --> 00:33:27.789
up as a planet that never got to form


00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:29.909
and that's all thanks to Jupiter doing


00:33:29.919 --> 00:33:33.029
its thing and stirring everything up so


00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:34.950
I think we've covered everything pabas


00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:36.110
there I hope we've covered everything


00:33:36.120 --> 00:33:38.389
past there but yeah there a lot lot of


00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:40.549
good stuff in there I might just add


00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.830
that some of the earth uh some of the


00:33:42.840 --> 00:33:45.029
Mars Quakes that have being detected are


00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:48.350
also being put down to meteorite strikes


00:33:48.360 --> 00:33:50.269
yes so they have the asteroids hitting


00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.990
it make it ring like a bell and that was


00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.230
part of the reason we put the science


00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:54.950
Moment On Mars in the first place was to


00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.190
deter these things yeah okay hey there


00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.509
you go thanks Patty great question um


00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:01.789
good to hear from you and don't forget


00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:03.950
if you've got a question for us for our


00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.190
Q&A episodes please go to our website


00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.069
and send them in uh it's as simple as


00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:11.389
going to SPAC nuts podcast.com and


00:34:11.399 --> 00:34:13.629
clicking on the little AMA thing at the


00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.430
top and if you want to send us a text


00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:18.310
question you can do that or you can send


00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:19.990
us an audio question if you've got a


00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.589
device with a microphone that's all you


00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.750
need and don't forget to tell us who you


00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.109
are and where you're from jonty thank


00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:27.470
you so much for answering all of those


00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:29.030
questions questions I'm going to make


00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:30.990
you do it again next week it's always


00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:32.710
pleasure it's good fun thank you for


00:34:32.720 --> 00:34:35.349
having me thank you Johnny uh Professor


00:34:35.359 --> 00:34:37.629
johy Horner from the University of


00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.190
Southern Queensland and um look Hugh in


00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:42.710
the studio was a noow again today now a


00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:46.950
lot of people ask us if Hugh is real I'm


00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:49.030
starting to think you might be right


00:34:49.040 --> 00:34:52.790
that he doesn't exist yeah and from me


00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.310
Andrew Dunley thanks to your company


00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:56.389
catch you on the very next episode of


00:34:56.399 --> 00:34:58.150
Space Nuts bye-bye


00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:00.829
sputs you'll be listening to the Space


00:35:00.839 --> 00:35:02.510
Nuts


00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:05.670
podcast available at Apple podcasts


00:35:05.680 --> 00:35:08.589
Spotify ihart radio or your favorite


00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:10.829
podcast player you can also stream on


00:35:10.839 --> 00:35:13.510
demand at bites.com this has been


00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:15.990
another quality podcast production from


00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.000
b.com