Cosmic Mysteries, Lost Civilizations & Solar Probes: #482 | Space Nuts

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Language: en

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Space Nuts is taking a bit of a break at


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the moment uh Fred and I will be back uh


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in the not too distant future with fresh


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episodes in the meantime enjoy some of


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uh the key episodes that we have


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presented over the years major events in


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astronomy and space science and we'll


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see you real soon 15 seconds guidance is


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internal 10 9 ignition sequence start


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Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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Space Nuts as the NS report it feels


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good and on the program today we will be


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discussing uh some work that's been done


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through the University of Cambridge


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where they may have may have


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accidentally stumbled across evidence of


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dark energy now we know it exists we


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know it makes up a substantial part of


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the universe we've just never been able


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to actually identify it uh directly so


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have they found Dark Energy have they


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found evidence of it I mean we know it's


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there because of the influence it has so


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we'll look into that uh we're also going


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to talk about a 201200 year old


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observatory in Peru it was only recently


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discovered uh around


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2005 uh and it still works it still


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works quite extraordinary I'm your host


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Andrew Dunley and joining me as always


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is Professor Fred Watson astronomer at


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large hello Fred good day Andrew how are


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you doing I am quite well how are you


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yes very well indeed thank you now let's


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move on to our first topic Fred and that


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is uh Dark Energy we get so many


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questions about dark matter and dark


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energy all because of the mystery


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surrounding these uh this stuff uh Dark


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Energy we we talked about how it's


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probably not well named but um they've


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been doing some experiments through the


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University of Cambridge and it looks


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like they might have stumbled


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across um the detection of dark energy


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uh it's not been absolutely confirmed


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but they they might have you know


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tripped over it by accident CU they


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would try to do something else they were


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that's right so this is an experiment at


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the


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xenon1t facility which is at Grand saso


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in Italy uh and it's a it's a a bit like


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a you know an astronomical telescope


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it's built as a facility that can be


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used by many astronomers and they'll


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come and get their two or three nights


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or whatever it is on the telescope and


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then go away and work out the results


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and a facility like this is similar in


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the sense that it's um it has uh access


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by various uh different researchers and


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in this case as you've said that these


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researchers are from the University of


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Cambridge and they've got basically the


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bottom line Andrew is that there are


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some unexplained results that have come


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from this experiment um what these


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scientist were looking for was evidence


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of extremely rare interaction ction s


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between particles of dark matter um


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which makes up about 27% of the mass


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energy budget of the universe compared


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with about 5% for all the stuff we can


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see yeah um so they were looking for so


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so we think that dark matter is some


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species of subatomic particle which we


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haven't yet identified but that it may


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on very rare occasions interact IE bash


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into uh a normal matter particle


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hydrogen or carbon or whatever um and um


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the idea of this xenon1t experiment was


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to try and detect such such collisions


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um but what they found was a a


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background


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signal that wasn't didn't match any of


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the um predictions for dark matter but


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actually um was more like the kind of


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signals that you might expect from dark


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energy and that's intriguing because


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dark energy has always been seen as the


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harder problem to solve it's um what is


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it 68% of the universe is dark energy um


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and it's a basically a an energy of


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space itself that's what we believe


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that's causing the expansion of the


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universe to accelerate but um subatomic


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physicists they think in terms of dark


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energy is being carried by particles um


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for example gravity which is in some


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ways the opposite of dark energy because


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it's a pulling together of of matter and


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we do understand gravity that uh we


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don't have a subatomic model for it


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properly yet but people speculate that


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it's carried by gravitons uh subatomic


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particles that carry the the effect of


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gravity and there may be particles that


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carry the effect of dark energy and


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that's what they think they've detected


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you know it's really funny because when


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I was reading the article


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uh I a thought popped into my head and I


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thought is is it possible that dark


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energy is simply


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anti-gravity um uh no it's not okay and


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and the reason for that is dark energy


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is everywhere um and the effect of


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gravity is well understood it follows


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the uh iners Square law so that you know


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as you move away from it the the gravity


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drops off with the square of the the


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distance dark energy is not like that


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it's everywhere yeah so it is different


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but its properties are similar in the


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sense that uh If gravity is an


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attractive Force if I can put it that


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way dark dark energy isn't it's a


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repulsive


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force and in that way yeah they they


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seem to be opposites to each other in


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that respect that's the thing but it's


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not anti-gravity uh because to have


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gravity you need matter and we don't


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seem to need matter for Dark Energy it's


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just there okay wow and they're going to


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um do some tweaking of the experiment as


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I understand it to see if they can now


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hone in on this because it's it's not


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absolutely certain that this is what


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they've discovered is it no that's right


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and these things never are they're


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they're


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um you know what you what you have to do


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you get something that looks


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suspicious uh and then you exactly as


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youve said you home in on it to try and


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um really kind of tease it to death to


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to to find out what's actually lurking


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there whether it is a real observation


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or something different and a classic


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example of that was couple of years ago


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there were two experiments at CERN that


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gave results that suggested that uh a


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subatomic particle had been discovered


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that that might um lead to the the proof


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of super symmetry which is another


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theory that doesn't have any uh any


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physical um observations behind it at


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the moment but both of those


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observations even though they were done


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on two different instruments uh they


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just they they disappeared they when


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they looked more more closely they the


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signals weren't there and and I should


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explain that this is all measured in


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terms of probability um you know what


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what the probability is of this being


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real and for it to be reported as a a


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real effect it needs a very high


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probability indeed well they're going to


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try and replicate this and the the part


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of the story that really made my eyes


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pop out was you we think we might be


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able to get an answer within a


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decade that's pretty soon for this sort


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of thing


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yeah I guess so all right uh something


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to watch with interest and uh may slow


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down the number of questions we get


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about it well yeah wouldn't it be great


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if we could pin down dark energy and


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what will be even greater um is that


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that really that would be new physics so


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it's beyond the theory of relativity


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that could open up all kinds of


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possibilities yeah couldn't it


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wow okay uh now let's talk about this uh


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Peruvian Observatory that was discovered


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in 2005 and has hit the news again


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what's the story with this one Fred yeah


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this is something very very close to my


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heart Andrew um and the reason is that


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uh mani and I led I think the first uh


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tourist expedition to this site back in


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2007 wow it was our it was our first our


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first science tour uh and we had the one


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of the archaeologists who is responsible


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for the discovery Ivan gy uh Peruvian


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scientist he came with us so we got a


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firsthand look at it and honestly it is


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such a haunting place that it's stayed


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with me ever since um if anybody's


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interested in following up my experience


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in that I think it's chapter three of uh


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of star craving mad my book about


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astronomy travels uh is devoted to this


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place and what it was what it was all


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about so what what we're talking about


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is is this is about 370 kilometers north


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of Lima it's um it's a in the um the the


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kasma valley is the river valley name


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and this is a place where a river flows


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down from the Andes and of course it it


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comes and goes um very strongly with the


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snow melt in the Andes right and and


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Hudd around the river uh fertile areas


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with little villages in them but also so


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you you you only have to walk 3 400


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meters away from the river and you're in


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desert and it's proper sandy desert yeah


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I thought from the video it looked


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really desolate it it is utterly


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desolate but at the same time uh 2,300


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years ago and in fact at least a


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thousand years before that because there


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are other artifacts there uh it was a


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thriving Center of population


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with a probably a religion that's


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demanded huge constructions and there


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there there's evidence of plazas on a


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mammoth scale half a kilometer across


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you know uh and and other structures


00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.069
having been there but in the middle of


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all this there's a hill uh which is runs


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north south pretty well exactly north


00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:24.790
south almost like um you know Hogs back


00:10:24.800 --> 00:10:27.230
type Hill yeah uh with a curved top it's


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two or 300 meters long and on top of


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that are 13 towers built to very exact


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proportions their damage now earthquake


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damage tends to knock the corners of


00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.949
structures like this so most of them


00:10:39.959 --> 00:10:42.949
have got some earthquake damage but um


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those Towers have actually been known


00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.269
for for many decades uh but it was only


00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:51.430
in 2005 as he said and actually


00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.350
published in 2006 that Ivan gy and


00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.990
another um well-known archo astronomer


00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.910
that's the ancient as omy uh who's at


00:11:00.920 --> 00:11:02.389
the University of Leicester Clive


00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.190
Ruggles and I was actually talking to


00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:05.710
Clive last week because he did a talk


00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:08.949
for us um a great speaker and a great


00:11:08.959 --> 00:11:11.629
scientist as well so Ivan and Clive


00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.110
figured out that what these towers were


00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.670
for was a calendar essentially um so


00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:20.110
what you've got is um they identified


00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.430
two places one to the east of the roow


00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.269
of towers one to the west of it where If


00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.550
You observe the sunrising


00:11:29.560 --> 00:11:31.470
uh on one side and setting on the other


00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:34.829
side uh those Towers act as a kind of


00:11:34.839 --> 00:11:38.629
calibration of the Horizon um so the sun


00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.030
comes up slightly differently every day


00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:43.870
Y and by looking at those where it


00:11:43.880 --> 00:11:46.590
crosses those Towers you can see exactly


00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:49.470
what the date was um so an enormous


00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.110
amount of effort went into understanding


00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.670
that and building it uh and we're left


00:11:54.680 --> 00:11:57.550
with this you know this record of a


00:11:57.560 --> 00:11:59.670
civilization about which we know very


00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:02.430
little um they're well pre- inor the


00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:06.190
incor were in the um 14th 15th centuries


00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.069
um 15 16th I think


00:12:08.079 --> 00:12:10.710
actually uh but this is uh this is a


00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:14.829
different civilization um what uh is is


00:12:14.839 --> 00:12:18.829
really striking though is that um you


00:12:18.839 --> 00:12:21.069
could if you make your observations


00:12:21.079 --> 00:12:23.870
carefully you could work out what day it


00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:25.550
was within a year now they didn't have a


00:12:25.560 --> 00:12:28.310
modern calendar then but they would have


00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.230
perhaps um worked out the dates by when


00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.790
the sun crossed this uh you know they


00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:35.990
crossed the different towers and what it


00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.509
seems to have been all about Andrew and


00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:40.590
this is a slightly gruesome part of this


00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:44.389
was ritual Warfare um uh it was about


00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:46.150
the gods telling them that they had to


00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:47.710
go and beat up the neighbors because


00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:49.949
they' get the water if they didn't and


00:12:49.959 --> 00:12:51.829
they had these ritual Wars which were


00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:53.990
were


00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.710
absolutely scathing they were ghastly


00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.310
gruesome and there's a another Temple


00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.069
not very far from chano which we also


00:13:02.079 --> 00:13:05.629
visited that's uh full of um murals


00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:06.910
carved murals that look as though


00:13:06.920 --> 00:13:08.710
they've been made yesterday this is more


00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.550
than 3,000 years old but it shows


00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:14.910
dismembered bodies and it's just uh very


00:13:14.920 --> 00:13:18.189
accurate and really Grim to look at um


00:13:18.199 --> 00:13:20.790
so that was what it was all about uh


00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:23.670
which is bizarre to our understanding


00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:25.310
but it's an extraordinary thing the


00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.030
reason why it's in the news again Andrew


00:13:27.040 --> 00:13:28.550
to get to the point is that it's just


00:13:28.560 --> 00:13:31.230
been given world heritage listing


00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.710
oh yeah thanks to Clive and and other


00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.470
people it really needs protection it is


00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.030
such an iconic site magnificent it must


00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:40.069
have been a thrill to get to see it


00:13:40.079 --> 00:13:42.550
unbelievable yeah yeah unbelievable


00:13:42.560 --> 00:13:44.670
amazing all right uh you can learn more


00:13:44.680 --> 00:13:47.069
about it by um jumping online there's


00:13:47.079 --> 00:13:50.350
lots of Articles and yeah it's easy to


00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.710
find uh I think the University of


00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.829
Leicester has published a story about it


00:13:55.839 --> 00:13:59.829
as well so yeah go and dig that one up


00:13:59.839 --> 00:14:02.629
you're listening to Space Nuts my name's


00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:07.430
Andrew Dunley with Professor Fred


00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.069
Watson and I feel fine Space Nuts hello


00:14:11.079 --> 00:14:13.110
again space Nutters this is Anna from


00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.430
astronomy daily the podcast stopping by


00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:16.910
again with a couple of the important


00:14:16.920 --> 00:14:18.670
stories we've been following over the


00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:21.629
past week today we've got some exciting


00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:24.030
updates about NASA's Parker solar probe


00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:26.310
and the Mars sample return Mission let's


00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.150
start with some history making


00:14:29.160 --> 00:14:31.430
in an incredible feat of engineering and


00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.829
scientific achievement NASA's Parker


00:14:33.839 --> 00:14:35.790
solar probe has just shattered its own


00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:38.150
records by making its closest ever


00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:41.949
approach to the sun on December 24th


00:14:41.959 --> 00:14:44.749
2024 this remarkable spacecraft soared


00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:46.269
through the solar atmosphere at a


00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:49.670
mindboggling speed of 430,000


00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.470
mph making it the fastest human-made


00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.710
object in history to put that in


00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.430
perspective you could Circle Earth 17


00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.189
times in just one hour at that speed the


00:15:00.199 --> 00:15:03.189
probe flew just 3.8 million miles above


00:15:03.199 --> 00:15:05.150
the sun's surface which might sound like


00:15:05.160 --> 00:15:07.509
a safe distance but consider this it's


00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.030
flying through temperatures that could


00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:11.629
melt steel the spacecraft's specially


00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.310
designed carbon foam Shield protects its


00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:15.870
sensitive instruments while enduring


00:15:15.880 --> 00:15:20.350
temperatures of up to 2,600 de F that's


00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:21.949
about a quarter as hot as the sun's


00:15:21.959 --> 00:15:24.829
surface itself the mission team received


00:15:24.839 --> 00:15:27.350
confirmation late on December 26th when


00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.990
the probe phoned home so to speak to


00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.030
report that the spacecraft had survived


00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:34.670
this daring encounter and is operating


00:15:34.680 --> 00:15:37.509
perfectly normally this success marks


00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.749
the beginning of a new phase in solar


00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.910
exploration as the probe will continue


00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:44.749
to make similar passes every 3 months


00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.590
giving scientists unprecedented access


00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.749
to study Our Stars most mysterious


00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.670
processes up close this groundbreaking


00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:54.949
proximity to the sun is giving


00:15:54.959 --> 00:15:57.430
scientists an unprecedented opportunity


00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.269
to unlock some of Our Stars greatest


00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.670
Mysteries by flying directly through the


00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:05.629
solar Corona the sun's superheated outer


00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:08.030
atmosphere the Parker solar probe is


00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:09.910
collecting data that's revolutionizing


00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:12.590
our understanding of solar physics


00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.430
previous passes have already challenged


00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.509
what we thought we knew about the sun


00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:18.110
scientists were surprised to discover


00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:19.749
that the outer boundary of the corona


00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.430
isn't smooth as previously believed but


00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.110
actually wrinkled with spikes and


00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.389
valleys the probe also solved a


00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.150
long-standing mystery about strange


00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:29.790
zigzag patterns patterns in the Solar


00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:32.430
Wind Called switchbacks tracing their


00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.670
origin to the sun's visible surface the


00:16:35.680 --> 00:16:37.629
spacecraft is helping us better


00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:39.350
understand how the corona reaches its


00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:41.790
puzzling temperature of over a million


00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:44.069
degrees Fahrenheit far hotter than the


00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:46.910
sun's surface it's also revealing new


00:16:46.920 --> 00:16:48.670
details about how the solar wind


00:16:48.680 --> 00:16:51.110
accelerates to incredible speeds as it


00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.629
flows outward through our solar system


00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:54.910
these discoveries aren't just


00:16:54.920 --> 00:16:57.110
academically interesting they're crucial


00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.189
for understanding how solar activity


00:16:59.199 --> 00:17:01.230
affects our technology on Earth and our


00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.150
future space exploration efforts and


00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.669
we're just getting started each close


00:17:06.679 --> 00:17:08.630
pass through the corona gives scientists


00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.669
more time to study these critical


00:17:10.679 --> 00:17:13.750
processes where they actually happen the


00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:15.829
data being collected now will take us


00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.350
closer than ever to understanding the


00:17:18.360 --> 00:17:20.630
fundamental physics that drive Our Stars


00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.309
Behavior potentially revolutionizing our


00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.590
ability to predict and prepare for solar


00:17:25.600 --> 00:17:29.310
events that could impact life on Earth


00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:31.510
next up big changes are coming for


00:17:31.520 --> 00:17:33.669
NASA's ambitious Mars sample return


00:17:33.679 --> 00:17:35.990
Mission the space agency is getting


00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.750
ready to announce a major overhaul of


00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:40.110
the project in early January and it's


00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:41.590
all about making the mission more


00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:43.870
practical and cost effective the


00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:45.390
original plan which would have cost


00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.390
around 11 billion and wouldn't have


00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.830
brought samples back until 2040 was


00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:51.789
deemed too expensive and too slow by


00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.549
NASA administrator Bill Nelson that


00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:56.630
timeline was particularly problematic


00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.549
since NASA aims to Have astronauts on


00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.149
Mar Mars by the 2040s and scientists


00:18:01.159 --> 00:18:02.669
want to study these samples before


00:18:02.679 --> 00:18:05.549
sending humans to the red planet NASA


00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:06.710
has been exploring alternative


00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.669
approaches reaching out to various


00:18:08.679 --> 00:18:10.590
industry Partners including big names


00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:13.190
like blue origin SpaceX and Northrup


00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.630
Grumman by involving private companies


00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.390
rather than relying solely on NASA


00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:19.549
centers they're hoping to significantly


00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.350
speed up the timeline and reduce costs


00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:23.909
the mission is crucial because it would


00:18:23.919 --> 00:18:25.870
be the first time we've ever returned


00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.390
samples from Mars to Earth for detailed


00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.630
study


00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.070
the stakes are high for this project the


00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:34.310
perseverance Rover is already on Mars


00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:36.750
collecting samples in special tubes but


00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:38.350
getting them back to Earth requires a


00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:40.470
complex series of steps involving


00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.230
multiple spacecraft and launches the


00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:44.750
challenge now is finding a way to


00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:46.590
complete this ambitious goal without


00:18:46.600 --> 00:18:49.430
breaking the bank or waiting until 2040


00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:51.630
with major briefings already underway we


00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.630
should know soon what this reimagined


00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.070
Mars sample return Mission will look


00:18:56.080 --> 00:18:58.190
like and that's it from me for this


00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.149
episode of Space Nuts I'm Anna and I've


00:19:01.159 --> 00:19:02.630
thoroughly enjoyed sharing these


00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.710
incredible developments with you today


00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:06.789
from record-breaking solar encounters to


00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:08.630
the evolving plans for bringing pieces


00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.110
of Mars back to Earth it's an exciting


00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:13.510
time for space science don't forget to


00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:15.870
visit astronomy daily. IO for your daily


00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.510
fix of space and astronomy news updates


00:19:18.520 --> 00:19:20.310
we're constantly updating the site with


00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:22.270
the latest discoveries Mission updates


00:19:22.280 --> 00:19:24.669
and Cosmic wonders until our next


00:19:24.679 --> 00:19:26.630
adventure through the cosmos keep


00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.230
looking up and stay curious about the


00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.909
Mysteries that surround us in spaceace


00:19:30.919 --> 00:19:33.230
nuts you'll be listening to the Space


00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:34.909
Nuts


00:19:34.919 --> 00:19:37.990
podcast available at Apple podcasts


00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.950
Spotify ihart radio or your favorite


00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.230
podcast player you can also stream on


00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.950
demand at bites.com this has been


00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.390
another quality podcast production from


00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.159
bites.com