Black Hole Temperatures, Cosmic Mapping & the Mystery of Dark Matter| Q&A | Space Nuts:...

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Hi there. Thanks for joining us again.


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This is a Q&A uh edition of Space Nuts,


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where we uh take audience questions and


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we pretend that we know what we're


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talking about in attempting to answer


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them or we get it right sometimes, too.


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Uh today we're going to be answering a


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question about uh the temperature of


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black holes. Uh I I'm not sure we've


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been there before. It may have come up,


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but um I can't remember when. uh and a


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question uh asking with the James Webb


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Space Telescope and the Vera Rubin


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telescope how much of the universe has


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been mapped. I can tell you this much uh


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and the emptiness of space is being


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questioned and what difference will it


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make to humanity uh if we find dark


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matter and dark energy? Um that's a


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really interesting question and Fred


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knows the answer. We'll ask him shortly


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on this edition of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> And he's back. And he has all the


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answers to all the questions of life,


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the universe, and everything. Professor


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Fred Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,


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Fred.


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No pressure there, Andrew.


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>> None at all. None at all.


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>> No pressure. That's right.


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>> Uh let's get straight into it, shall we?


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Um uh one of our regular contributors is


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Casey, who has a very interesting


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question about a subject we never


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discuss, black holes.


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>> Hi guys, this is Casey from Colorado and


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I was thinking about the temperature of


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black holes. I know that the accretion


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disc would be very hot, but I was


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wondering once you get past the event


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horizon if it would be hot or cold. Why


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do we think this? Thanks for the podcast


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and I hope you're both well. Thanks.


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>> Thank you, Casey. She's got me thinking


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about the temperature in Colorado


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because like we're facing some horrific


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temperatures around here at the moment,


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but I' i'd imagine it'd be quite the


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opposite in Colorado this time of the


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year.


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Yeah, I think that's that's absolutely


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right. Yes. But part of the world in


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winter.


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>> Absolutely. Um, now temperature of black


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holes. This this one's interesting


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because I suppose it varies on several


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factors. Um, where you are, what you're


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doing.


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I don't know what


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I would like. It's not like the not like


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the temperature of the sun, is it?


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>> No. No, it's not. Um, it's it's a re I'm


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I'm so glad Casey asked this question


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because it sent me down a rabbit hole I


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haven't been down before.


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>> Oh, wow.


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>> Uh, in and it leads you straight to


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quantum theory. Uh, uh, and um, it's,


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you know, it's a it really in a sense


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it's quite unexpected


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uh, what's what's happening. Uh so um


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the bottom line is whilst as Casey


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exactly as Casey says the accretion disc


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of the black hole is extremely hot uh


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and you know we're talking millions of


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degrees there because this that's where


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you get X-ray radiation from. It's the


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the stuff charging around the accretion


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disc uh that's uh swirling around the


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the black hole itself. But the black


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hole itself


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is the opposite. It's really really


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cold. Um, and basically, uh, it's


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because the the amount of radiation


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that they, uh, that they release is at a


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level uh, which means its temperature is


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measured in gazillionth of a degree.


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It's virtually absolute zero.


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um they they


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basically they're


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it's quite a a nice way of putting it um


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which which I've uh summarized uh I


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think this comes from Wikipedia. It may


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come from AI actually. But the bottom


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line is even though black holes pull in


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matter and energy, their temperature is


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incredibly low because their large mass


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makes their event horizons effectively


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cold thermal emitters, absorbing energy


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faster than they radiate it at these


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scales. So that's the key to what's


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happening that like everything else,


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black holes suck stuff. it sucks stuff


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in uh and that stuff is matter which is


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equivalent to energy uh and because it's


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stuff that's going in and not radiating


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outwards uh even though there is what we


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call Hawking radiation which I'll get to


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in a second but that that um you know


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the uh what it means is that the the


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fact that there there's an energy input


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into the black hole it means that to the


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outside observer they look cold. They


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look very very cold. There is a


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relationship as you said uh we it might


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vary with some things and what it varies


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with uh is actually the mass of the


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black hole. Uh it's it's roughly uh an


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inverse proportionality proportionality


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the the temperature is inversely


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proportional to the mass. Um, and what


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that means is for super massive black


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holes, they are extremely cold. Uh, and


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that sort of figures because they're


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sucking in more energy and so the


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surface to an outside observer would


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look colder. Uh, they're talking about


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10 the minus14° Kelvin. U something with


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the mass of the sun um is a barmy 10us


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7° Kelvin. It's still virtually zero,


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but it's more uh more than the super


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massive black holes. So something the


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mass of the sun. So it's inversely


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proportional to the mass uh that inverse


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relationship. Uh and so so that's that's


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kind of what it's the Hawking radiation


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that gives the black hole a temperature


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essentially. It's because it's it's


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emitting radiation. Um, and we've talked


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about Hawking radiation before. Even


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though everything gets sucked into a


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black hole, there's this quantum


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situation where you can get um two


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virtual particles being created from


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nothing in empty space. One gets trapped


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by the black hole, the other doesn't.


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And so we see that as Hawking radiation


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uh suggested by Steven Hawking in the


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1970s now very well established. Uh but


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yeah to summarize the bottom line is


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Casey's uh question is a good one uh


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because it turns out that black holes


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are very very cold indeed despite the


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intense heat of the accretion disc. Work


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that one out. It's a really hard thing


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to to put your imagination around.


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>> I suppose you'd compare it to the heat


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on the It's got nothing to do with it at


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all, but by example the heat on the sun


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side of Mercury versus the cool on the


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shadow side. They're so extreme.


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>> Um.


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>> Yes. Yeah, that's right.


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>> For the same reason.


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>> Well, similar because the dark side of


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Mercury is cold uh because it's


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radiating energy into space.


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>> Um uh whereas uh and that that energy


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loss reduces the temperature. Whereas


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with a black hole, it's the other way


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around. The thing is the thing is


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sucking energy in at a greater rate than


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it's emitting energy. Uh so Mercury


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would Mercury's dark side would lose


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heat by infrared radiation. Um that


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radiation in the case of a black hole is


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is much smaller than the radiation that


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it's sucking in which is why it looks


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extremely cold. Uh so I'm trying to I'm


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trying to make sense of the parallel


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that you drew and I think it's I think


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it holds water Andrew. I think I think


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it's a good good answer.


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>> Well, actually the water will probably


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evaporate or freeze but anyway um


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>> freeze it.


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>> Uh I just thought of a question. Um so


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if a black hole sort of,


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you know, runs out of food, would that


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cause an alteration in its temperature?


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Um,


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I don't think so because I think once


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the I I get what you're saying and


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certainly in the argument that we've


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just been talking about, you'd think


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that if it's not sucking in energy


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anymore,


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>> uh, it it or sucking in matter anymore,


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it it would uh it would actually change


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its uh change its temperature. Um the


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reason why I think that might not happen


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is because the only thing that uh the


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temperature seems to be related to is


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the mass itself. So um there must be a


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mechanism and I'm sorry it's eluding me


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at the moment. Uh but there must be a


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mechanism that sort of locks once you've


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once you've got a a a black hole of


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sufficient mass um then uh its


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temperature is sort of locked in. Uh it


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must still be taking in energy in the


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form of radiation. So perhaps that's


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what's what's happening. you know, light


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light certainly gets sucked into a black


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hole that even even if it's not got an


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accretion disc of stuff to to feed on,


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uh the light certainly going in and


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perhaps that's enough to keep the


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temperature as low as we've described.


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Indeed. All right. Uh thanks Casey.


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Lovely to hear from you. Hope you're


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coping with the uh - 10^ the 15° Kelvin


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in Colorado. Uh our next question comes


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from Eli. Hello space fairers. I'm


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writing from the Coachella Valley desert


00:10:04.880 --> 00:10:07.350
here in Southern California. Uh, I've


00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.430
often thought some of the Google


00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.750
Earthlike software would be amazing to


00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:13.750
take into other galaxies throughout the


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universe. Intriguingly, I imagine you


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could take them back in time according


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to estimates of cosmic inflation, etc.


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all the way to the big bang in theory.


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um to his question with James Webb and


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the Vera Rubin coming online how much of


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the visible visible universe have we


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basically mapped and how much are we


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projected to map in say the next decade


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I think we've actually talked about how


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much that they're going to look at and


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how long it's going to take and I I I


00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:47.269
think Eli's going to be quite surprised


00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.550
by the answer


00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:53.269
well yes that's right I mean the the key


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words here are the Vera Vera Rubin


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Observatory uh because that will map the


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entire sky down to quite a significant


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depth not as deep as the web will um


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although it is an 8 m telescope the web


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is only 6 and a half mters so it's


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probably not far short of it uh the web


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of course looking in infrared and the


00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.670
Vera Rubin telescope looking in visible


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light but it's going to it's going to


00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.190
photograph the whole sky southern sky uh


00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:30.069
in uh every three three nights or so. So


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that will build up over the years a map


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of the things that don't change. I mean


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what it's looking for is things that do


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change but um as you integrate for all


00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:42.230
that time and by that I mean you you you


00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.710
know expose the detector to the sky so


00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:46.790
that you build up the image uh and you


00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:48.870
can add all those images together. We'll


00:11:48.880 --> 00:11:52.790
have we'll have a almost a complete map


00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:54.710
of the universe in the southern


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hemisphere because uh all the visible


00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:01.750
galaxies will show up. Uh the they we


00:12:01.760 --> 00:12:03.670
won't see the first galaxies. I don't


00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:05.910
think it's going to be powerful enough


00:12:05.920 --> 00:12:09.110
to see those. But uh and we're not sure


00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:10.790
even that the web has seen the first


00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:13.110
galaxies. Uh it's certainly seen some


00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:15.110
galaxies that we think are very early in


00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.949
the history of the universe. And I think


00:12:16.959 --> 00:12:19.670
the Verus Cy Rubin observatory will do


00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:22.949
the same thing. Uh but um you know so


00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:26.069
we're not in any sense getting a


00:12:26.079 --> 00:12:29.590
complete sense of the consens sorry a


00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.190
complete census of the universe. Uh but


00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.829
it's not going to be far off. Uh, and


00:12:35.839 --> 00:12:38.310
that's quite astonishing when you think


00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.230
of where we were, you know, well, just a


00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.790
few years ago, certainly when I was a a


00:12:42.800 --> 00:12:45.509
young working astronomer in the 1970s, I


00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.990
would have had my somebody It would have


00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.389
blown my mind to think that we could map


00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.230
all the galaxies uh in one hemisphere of


00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.750
the universe.


00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:57.509
>> Yeah. Uh, what about the northern


00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.389
hemisphere? Is there any


00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.990
>> work equivalent? uh the the there is I


00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.550
mean the Nancy Roman space telescope


00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:10.949
will look it's also a wide angle


00:13:10.959 --> 00:13:13.670
telescope like the the Ruben Observatory


00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:18.069
instrument is but um it's not as big


00:13:18.079 --> 00:13:22.069
it's a um it is a 2.3 meter telescope


00:13:22.079 --> 00:13:23.990
basically a Hubble Hubble telescope but


00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.710
with a wide field of view. Uh so we'll


00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.509
we'll certainly see uh pretty deep into


00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:30.949
the northern hemisphere. Whether it will


00:13:30.959 --> 00:13:32.949
go as deep as the Reuben Observatory,


00:13:32.959 --> 00:13:34.310
it's a different matter. I don't think


00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.750
it will because it's a much smaller


00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:37.829
telescope, but it is in space and that


00:13:37.839 --> 00:13:40.230
gives it excuse me that gives it


00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.389
advantages. There's no atmosphere to to


00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.190
get in the way. So that's perhaps the


00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:51.190
best bet. Um the excuse me, the other uh


00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:52.870
big instruments, I mean, there's a


00:13:52.880 --> 00:13:56.710
number of things going on. Um, in terms


00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.710
of the two kek telescopes which are in


00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.069
the northern hemisphere in Hawaii,


00:14:00.079 --> 00:14:02.550
they're 8 mclass telescopes, but they're


00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:04.310
not wide angle. These are telescopes


00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.430
that are built to home in in detail on


00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.990
individual objects rather than to do


00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.790
wide angle surveys. You need a specially


00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:14.310
designed telescope for that and the


00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.829
Reuben is exactly that. Um,


00:14:17.839 --> 00:14:21.430
there isn't really an equivalent. Uh


00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.990
there is a wide-angle telescope in La


00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.790
Palma which is um the basically the same


00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:28.629
as our UK Schmidt telescope here in


00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:30.150
Australia. It's called the Ocean Schmidt


00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:31.990
telescope. It's much older than our


00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.269
Schmidt. In fact, our Schmidt was


00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.030
modeled on it and that's a wide angle


00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:37.269
telescope that's surveying the sky, but


00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.030
that's looking for things like nearear


00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:40.790
asteroids and things of that sort rather


00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:43.189
than penetrating deep into the universe


00:14:43.199 --> 00:14:45.590
because it's only got a 1.2 2 meter


00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.550
aperture diameter much smaller than the


00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:50.389
eight meters that the Rubid telescope


00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.509
will have.


00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.189
>> Yeah.


00:14:53.199 --> 00:14:55.910
still um what we'll know in 10 years


00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:59.269
time will be extraordinary uh through


00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.590
through these two telescopes alone the


00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:05.430
James Webb and Vera Rubin um yeah who


00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:08.550
knows what they're going to un unveil uh


00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:11.430
and and what what have you know Vera


00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:12.949
Rubin's first photograph was a


00:15:12.959 --> 00:15:17.750
revelation uh and what James Webb is um


00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:20.230
is is shelling out is is extraordinary


00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:23.910
it It's It's like um I don't know,


00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:25.750
Taylor Swift. It's a hit record every


00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.910
time that every time they release a


00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:29.110
picture.


00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.990
>> It's uh it's incredible. So, Eli, the


00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.790
next decade will be extraordinary. Um


00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:37.509
so, just, you know, keep an eye on it


00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.750
would be my advice. And thanks for the


00:15:39.760 --> 00:15:42.310
question. This is Space Nuts with Andrew


00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:45.990
Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.509
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>> Spacenuts.


00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.350
I think we have an audio question now.


00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:39.110
This one comes from one of our regulars


00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:40.150
as well.


00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:42.789
>> Hello Fred, Andrew, Jonty, and Heidi.


00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.669
This is Robert from the Netherlands.


00:17:45.679 --> 00:17:48.710
I have a question for you guys about the


00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.190
emptiness of space.


00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.230
Now, everybody is always saying that


00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.470
space is totally empty, right? One


00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.110
proton per square breeder, something


00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:03.510
like that. However, not that long ago,


00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:06.070
scientists did discover the Higs Bzon


00:18:06.080 --> 00:18:10.789
particle, the God particle, if you will.


00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.549
So apparently everything is on this grid


00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.789
of hex boss, but I'm not exactly an


00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.029
expert here. I'm just curious if you


00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:22.470
guys could shed some lights on this


00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.669
concept for me. So is it just an


00:18:25.679 --> 00:18:28.230
enormous field of these very regular


00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.430
hobbons everywhere in desal spaces or


00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.070
are they more numerous or less dense in


00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.270
certain parts? Is the void between


00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:40.310
galaxies actually a void? or is it an


00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:43.909
empty field of God particles?


00:18:43.919 --> 00:18:45.909
I really hope you can shed some lights.


00:18:45.919 --> 00:18:49.350
Thank you guys so much for answering.


00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:51.029
Thank you, Robert. Good to hear from


00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:55.350
you. Uh the emptiness of space. So he


00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:58.230
said one proton per square meter. Is


00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.350
that um a reasonable


00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:04.070
>> uh yeah per cubic meter? something


00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.070
something like that. Um


00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:09.990
>> yeah um it's uh it's of that order I


00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.630
think in in intergalactic space. Um


00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.870
uh but uh Robert's right in the sense


00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:24.070
that the Higs field which is the other


00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:28.390
way of looking at the Higs Bzon


00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.669
permeates basically permeates empty


00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:36.470
space. Um so


00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.669
uh this is all about the duality of


00:19:39.679 --> 00:19:41.510
particles


00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:44.789
uh with waves and with what we call


00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.070
fields. Um and we I mean we imagine


00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:49.990
fields when we think of gravitation


00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.230
because we think of a a gravitational


00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.909
field as a as a as a a


00:19:55.919 --> 00:19:59.110
sort of a a well if I can put it that


00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:01.750
way in a in a trampoline. Uh the


00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:03.029
trampolines, the field, you put


00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.190
something in it and it it distorts it.


00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.510
>> Yeah.


00:20:05.520 --> 00:20:10.070
>> Uh so with the Higs uh Bzon, the Higs


00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:14.470
field uh is this sort of invisible. It's


00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.470
been described as a something like


00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:21.110
molasses or syrup. Uh that what actually


00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:23.830
give particles their mass because um


00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:25.750
they move slowly through it because they


00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:28.549
get sticky. Uh that's one way of looking


00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.390
at it. Um but uh the Higs Bzon is


00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.470
essentially a um in in a in a sense uh a


00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.830
ripple in the Higs field. The Higs field


00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:43.270
fills space and the Higs Bzons uh are


00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:45.990
ripples in it. That's one way uh to look


00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:52.070
at it. Um it's it's uh


00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:54.470
the I think what Robert's interested in


00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:58.789
is the density of these Bzons.


00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.070
uh whether they are uniformly


00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:05.029
uh distributed through space or whether


00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:10.470
we're talking about um you know uh Bzons


00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.789
uh that are


00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:16.950
more dense in some places than than


00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:21.510
others. uh and I I guess the the bottom


00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:22.950
line is that you would expect there to


00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.350
be more Bzons where there is more uh


00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:30.549
more uh what you might call normal


00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.710
matter the the quarks and normal


00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:34.950
particles but that might not be the


00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:36.950
case. Uh I need to look at that a little


00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.549
bit more carefully Andrew as you can


00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.430
probably tell uh to to find out what the


00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.470
distribution of Higs Bzons are. If you


00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:46.070
assume the Higs field is uniform


00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:47.669
throughout space, which I think it might


00:21:47.679 --> 00:21:48.950
be.


00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:50.630
>> Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, it's a


00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:52.390
complicated area. You're talking about


00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:54.230
particle physics, aren't you? Really?


00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:55.510
It's um it's not


00:21:55.520 --> 00:21:57.029
>> I believe so. Yes.


00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.789
>> It's not it's not basic maths. So, um


00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:02.230
>> yeah, it's particle physics we're


00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.310
talking about. And um as as I've said


00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:05.830
before, the disclaimer is I'm not a


00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:09.430
particle physicist. I've been to been to


00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.470
CERN a few times and had my mind blown


00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:13.830
by what they do there at the Large


00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:15.669
Hadron Collider. In fact, I've been


00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:17.909
underground in the Ladron Collider, but


00:22:17.919 --> 00:22:19.750
I'm still not a physicist, a particle


00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:23.270
physicist. I uh learn what they they


00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:25.990
tell me and kind of hope for the best.


00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.390
>> Yeah. Aren't they making a larger Hedron


00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:30.549
collider?


00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.950
uh they are planning one um something


00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.950
called


00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:38.470
uh


00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.230
I can't remember it's something like the


00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.470
large you know the future large collider


00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.870
I think something like that uh which


00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.870
whereas the large hydron collider has a


00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.110
diameter or a circumference of 27


00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:52.789
kilometers this is 100 kilometers


00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.110
um if they ever get the money for it


00:22:55.120 --> 00:22:57.029
they are planning an opening ceremony


00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.470
for it in 2070


00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.350
It's called the uh future circular


00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:03.750
collider.


00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:05.430
>> Future circular collider. That's it.


00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.630
>> Um 91 km ring successor to the large


00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.029
hedron collider.


00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.350
>> And they expect it to be approved.


00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:18.470
Then the 2728 financial year by the look


00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.909
of it. Construction starting in the


00:23:19.919 --> 00:23:22.789
2030s. So it's a little way off.


00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.029
>> Completion 2070.


00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.549
>> 2070.


00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:27.029
Lime.


00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.630
>> Yeah.


00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.990
That's where the last let's not hold it


00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.590
is what I saw. Yeah. So I don't think um


00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:37.590
I I you know even with the best will in


00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:40.230
the world space will probably have


00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.149
dwindled to an audience measured in


00:23:42.159 --> 00:23:44.230
single digits by then. So


00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.909
>> possibly possibly so yes uh more could


00:23:47.919 --> 00:23:49.430
pick up new listeners along the way but


00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:51.990
we won't know about it. But um I I


00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.750
suppose the other side to this question


00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:56.710
though is that we do see concentrations


00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.909
of particles in some parts of the


00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:02.310
universe uh like dark matter seems to


00:24:02.320 --> 00:24:05.350
concentrate around galaxies


00:24:05.360 --> 00:24:06.310
kind of thing. Is that


00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:07.110
>> Yeah,


00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:09.510
>> that a different kettle of fish.


00:24:09.520 --> 00:24:11.830
>> I I think so because we're talking about


00:24:11.840 --> 00:24:14.950
something that is um a property of the


00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:19.669
universe itself almost. Um,


00:24:19.679 --> 00:24:24.149
so that the Higs field is everywhere.


00:24:24.159 --> 00:24:26.390
>> Okay. Gotcha. I understand. No, I get


00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:27.909
it. I get it. Yeah. All right.


00:24:27.919 --> 00:24:28.549
>> Yeah.


00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.590
>> So, Robert, the answer is um maybe


00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:33.830
possibly could be. Uh, we need to do a


00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:36.390
bit more homework by the sound of it.


00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:37.830
>> We might be able to get back to you on


00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:39.350
that.


00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:41.909
>> Just Fred's writing a note so he doesn't


00:24:41.919 --> 00:24:43.990
forget. Except he'll forget where the


00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.510
note is. Shh.


00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:47.029
>> All right.


00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.430
It's in this book.


00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.710
Thanks, Robert.


00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.590
>> Okay, we checked all four systems and


00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:57.029
>> Space Nets.


00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.390
>> And our final question comes from Renie.


00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.789
Uh, this is a really interesting


00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:04.230
question because he says, I'm going to


00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.149
play devil's advocate with this


00:25:06.159 --> 00:25:09.830
question. How will finding out what dark


00:25:09.840 --> 00:25:12.710
matter and dark energy really are help


00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.789
the earth and all uh of its life now and


00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.269
in the future? Renie from California.


00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.510
We've had a few US questions this week.


00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:24.710
That's nice. Two from Cali. Uh so yeah,


00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.230
what difference will it make if we find


00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.070
this stuff to Earth and life as it is


00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:33.510
now and in the future?


00:25:33.520 --> 00:25:37.430
Um so um yeah if if we magically did


00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.070
find the answer to these things and we


00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:43.430
will eventually uh over a period of time


00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.510
I hope it's not till not be I hope it's


00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:49.350
before 2070 because I want to know um it


00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:51.990
it what it will do will be complete our


00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.950
understanding of the universe in a way


00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.630
that it it's not the case at the moment.


00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.190
So um it it basically refineses our


00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:04.789
understanding


00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.269
uh in a if I can put it this way in a


00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.510
way that's similar to the way general


00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:13.190
relativity


00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:17.830
refined it back in 1915.


00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:21.029
Um, so the fact that we suddenly


00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.669
understood gravity, the way gravity


00:26:23.679 --> 00:26:26.870
works in a new light, which is what


00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.870
general relativity did um meant that uh


00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:35.750
yes, the physicists could go away happy


00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:38.630
because they solved a problem. There


00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.269
were a number of problems that Newtonian


00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.430
gravity couldn't couldn't help with


00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.470
which were solved by Einsteinian


00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:47.830
gravity.


00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:51.909
So um but that didn't seem to offer any


00:26:51.919 --> 00:26:55.029
future benefits for humankind. But here


00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.830
we are rather more than 100 years later,


00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:03.590
110 years later and we have um tools


00:27:03.600 --> 00:27:06.950
which rely absolutely on general


00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.549
relativity. And the one I'm thinking of


00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.310
most commonly is uh GPS


00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:15.750
uh because our position finding um


00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:18.549
software simply would not work without


00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:20.950
general relativity. you'd have errors in


00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.750
the region of 10 kilometers which is not


00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:26.789
kind of what you want with GPS but that


00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:31.350
took a 100 years and so Renie that's the


00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:33.190
sort of time scale I think on which you


00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.950
have to be optimistic about the way it


00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.590
might help humankind or life on earth


00:27:37.600 --> 00:27:40.390
generally because if we become


00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.590
responsible um a responsible species on


00:27:43.600 --> 00:27:44.870
our planet we're going to help the whole


00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.230
planet if we if we live sustainably and


00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.870
um live alongside inside uh all our


00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.149
companion organisms on on this planet.


00:27:54.159 --> 00:27:56.870
So uh yeah, so I I think um what you


00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.190
can't say is that it won't help them.


00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.590
That's the thing. You can't say that it


00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:04.549
will either. Uh but there's a good


00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.510
chance that in the same way that um


00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:09.750
something as obstruuse as general


00:28:09.760 --> 00:28:11.750
relativity actually comes into


00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:14.630
everybody's everyday lifeund odd years


00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.510
later. I think that's the the model and


00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:21.110
it's one reason why why deep research


00:28:21.120 --> 00:28:22.630
like this is funded. It's why


00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.789
fundamental research that is just


00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.190
knowledge for its own sake at the moment


00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:28.710
why it's funded because you never know


00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.710
what the spin-offs might be.


00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.029
>> Absolutely. Uh and you can look back in


00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.710
history at some of the great discoveries


00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.830
and how they've they've changed things


00:28:37.840 --> 00:28:42.149
on Earth and have changed human life. Um


00:28:42.159 --> 00:28:44.710
>> I'm just trying to think of one. Well,


00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:45.909
electricity for a start.


00:28:45.919 --> 00:28:48.149
>> Yeah. Well, they, you know, it was just


00:28:48.159 --> 00:28:50.470
physicists playing around in the early


00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.230
19th century. Oh, this is really


00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:53.269
interesting.


00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.909
>> Um, nobody ever thought we'd use it like


00:28:55.919 --> 00:28:57.510
we do today.


00:28:57.520 --> 00:28:59.350
>> And I suppose one of the this is


00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:03.029
probably a a fundamental example. Uh, as


00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.350
we learn things, we learn things. So it


00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:09.350
expands our minds. It expands our


00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:11.190
inquisitiveness. It expands our


00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.830
intelligence. It it it it enables


00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:17.669
humanity to understand more about itself


00:29:17.679 --> 00:29:19.350
and its place in the universe. You know,


00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:22.389
you go back to 1543


00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:23.990
when Capernicus


00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.149
>> found that the earth was not the center


00:29:26.159 --> 00:29:29.029
of the universe. I think he got shouted


00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.430
down pretty heavily for that. But that's


00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.750
the truth. We know that now. Uh there


00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:36.789
was I can't remember who it was but um


00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.549
another thing that goes back quite a way


00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.830
when the discovery was made that our son


00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:43.909
is actually a star. I mean for a long


00:29:43.919 --> 00:29:46.310
time we didn't know that.


00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:48.230
>> You know it's it's about knowledge as


00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.149
much as anything. I think


00:29:50.159 --> 00:29:51.510
>> Yeah. Yep.


00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:52.549
>> I love that one though.


00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.230
>> That's right. Yeah.


00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:54.630
>> The sun.


00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:55.430
>> It's great.


00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:56.149
>> Yeah.


00:29:56.159 --> 00:29:56.710
>> I think


00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:57.830
>> you can look it up. It's online


00:29:57.840 --> 00:29:59.350
somewhere. I did it as a quiz question


00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:01.990
once on the radio and um got a great


00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.310
response to that cuz people just in the


00:30:04.320 --> 00:30:06.470
modern era never thought that there


00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.149
would have been a time where people look


00:30:08.159 --> 00:30:12.149
at this this hot ball in the sky and go


00:30:12.159 --> 00:30:15.190
what is that? Um and you know looking at


00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.789
all the other stars not making the


00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:19.269
correlation they just didn't know. It's


00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.149
um it was incredible. So I suppose Renie


00:30:22.159 --> 00:30:24.389
it's it's it's about knowledge. It's


00:30:24.399 --> 00:30:26.630
about expanding our understanding of


00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.789
life, the universe, and everything and


00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.110
not stopping at 42.


00:30:31.120 --> 00:30:34.710
Um, that's the way I look at it.


00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.470
I think you're and I think you're


00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.549
absolutely right. I think um, you know,


00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.389
both that's two sides of the same thing.


00:30:40.399 --> 00:30:43.350
We're we're we but it's why we why we do


00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:45.029
this sort of thing. It's why it's we're


00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.630
a curious species and


00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.190
>> absolutely


00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:48.630
>> knowledge is power. Yeah.


00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.789
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. Yeah.


00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.110
Absolutely true, Renie. Great question.


00:30:53.120 --> 00:30:55.590
good one for discussion and debate and


00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:57.029
keep them coming. If you'd like to send


00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.990
questions into us, um you can do so


00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.590
through our website,


00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:03.430
spacenutspodcast.com,


00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.870
spacenuts.io, they're the two URLs. And


00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:08.389
while you're there, have a look around.


00:31:08.399 --> 00:31:10.870
The AMA button at the top, ask me


00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:12.710
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00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.029
questions. Ask me anything. Uh text or


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00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.669
Always a pleasure.


00:31:53.679 --> 00:31:55.430
>> Good to talk, Andrew. And um I'm sure


00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.430
we'll do it again soon.


00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.909
>> Yes, I'm sure we will. Uh could be a few


00:31:59.919 --> 00:32:01.909
minutes, could be a week, who knows. Uh


00:32:01.919 --> 00:32:03.590
and Hugh in the studio, thanks to him


00:32:03.600 --> 00:32:05.269
for doing everything he does. We don't


00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.350
know what that is, but we appreciate it.


00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:09.110
And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for


00:32:09.120 --> 00:32:10.710
your company. See you on the next


00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:13.029
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.430
>> Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the


00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.389
Space Nuts podcast


00:32:18.399 --> 00:32:21.430
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