Artemis 2 Success, ESO Fallout & The Intriguing World of X-Ray Binaries | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Language: en

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Hello again. Thanks for joining us on


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this yet another edition of Space Nuts,


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where we talk astronomy and space


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science. My name is Andrew Dunley, your


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host. Great to have your company. Coming


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up on a fresh episode, Arteimus 2 making


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headlines for all the right reasons.


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What a sigh of relief that was. Did you


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watch the launch? I sure did. Uh, but


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some bad news for the Australia ESO


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deal, which has got astronomers upset.


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One in particular I can think of. what's


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his name again? And the discovery of an


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X-ray binary. That's all coming up in


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this edition of Space Nuts.


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>> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9


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Ignition sequence start.


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> 5 4 3 2


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>> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1


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>> Space Nuts.


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>> Astronauts report. It feels good.


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>> Just wondering what an X-ray binary is.


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It sounds like something you could get


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arrested for. And joining us to talk


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about all of that is Professor Fred


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Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,


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Fred.


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>> Hello, Andrew. And uh I I pick you up on


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that because I nearly got arrested once


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for doing astronomy with a an old brass


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telescope in the front garden, which the


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neighbors thought was a bazooka. Uh and


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so I had a visit from a very large


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policeman. I think I was uh 16 or 17 at


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the time


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>> cuz these these days you'd get accused


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of of being a peeping tom or something,


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>> but back back then they thought it was a


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weapon.


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>> The reason why they do have weaponike,


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>> you know, looks them, don't they?


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>> Yeah, they look like a gun. That's


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right. The reason why I didn't um I


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didn't get uh any complaints about being


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a peeping tom was that our front garden


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overlooked the cemetery uh and there


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wasn't anybody around to complain.


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>> That's Yeah. Okay. Lots of things come


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to mind, but I'll I'll just I won't go


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there. Won't go there.


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>> No. But yes, like Yeah. When when was


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that?


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>> The early 1960s. Yeah. Uh-huh.


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>> Long after the Second World War, which


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is where why bazookas were on people's


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minds.


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>> Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was still super


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sensitive, I guess.


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>> Fred, it's been an exciting week. I know


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this is podcast, so some people will


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hear this well after the fact. But, uh,


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the other day, Artemis 2 lifted off very


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successfully, which was very, very


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exciting. And I watched it live on NASA


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live, which a lot of people did. There


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were tens of thousands of people logged


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on and the system held up and I just


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watched the whole thing. I had it on my


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computer. I sat there and I just I


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watched the whole hour build up to the


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to the launch and and watched it all


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unfold. And it went something like this.


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10 9 8 7 RS25 engines. 8 4 3 2 1 booster


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ignition and liftoff.


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The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the


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moon. Humanity's next great voyage


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begins.


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>> How cool is that? How cool. And and


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those engines, the the sound of those


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engines, even over the over the internet


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on a on a shony microphone cuz NASA


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can't really afford good stuff. Um, no,


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that it sounded You want to hear that


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again? That that that that just the


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sound of the engines. Okay. All right.


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>> No, that was just me blowing into the


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microphone, but um yeah, fantastic


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stuff. Uh it was so exciting to watch. I


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um I really got a big kick out of it and


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uh you could hear the crowd cheering at


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one stage. It was so loud that the


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microphones picked up the crowd and um


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yeah it was an amazing moment and of


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course as we speak today they have


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reached the moon and done their lap.


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They went onto the dark side and uh all


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that loss talk was being spoken of with


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loss of signal. I mean, they were


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blocked out by a big rock and um and


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they achieved so much. I think uh yeah,


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it's been a pretty exciting week, hasn't


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it, Fred?


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>> You can say that again. And that um that


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live broadcast that you're talking


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about, um I've still got it on in


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this afternoon.


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>> Yeah, we're we're getting updates uh uh


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all the time. And you know, this is kind


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of NASA at his best, isn't it really?


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It's just uh such a fantastic


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achievement for us to see this mission


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uh going so profoundly well. Um uh you


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said the uh the trans traverse behind


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the moon has taken place. Uh now um


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there was a 40-minute loss of signal


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which you'd expect for exactly the


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reason that you mentioned. Uh the moon


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is a big rock and gets in the way of


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sign of radio signals. But also what the


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astronauts on board Arteimus saw was an


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eclipse of the sun. So the moon's disc


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actually covered the sun. Now from our


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vantage point on Earth, the sun and the


00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.230
moon look to be the same size. It's one


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of the most curious cosmic coincidences


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that we've got our satellite and the and


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our star which have the same angular


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size half a degree in the sky. But of


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course from the vantage point of the u


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of the Arteimus astronauts uh who are


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roughly 6,000 kilometers from the moon's


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surface at the moment uh the moon is is


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a lot bigger and so yes they did see an


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eclipse uh and as the moon covered the


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disc of the sun they would see first of


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all the inner atmosphere of the sun what


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we call the chromosphere which often has


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pink uh glowing clouds of hydrogen on it


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but more especially they would have seen


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the corona the sun's outer atmosphere,


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which is what uh captivates eclipse


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goers whenever they go and see a total


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eclipse of the sun. And I can't resist


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there a plug for 22nd of July, 2028 when


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a total eclipse of the sun uh will see


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the moon shadow passing over both where


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you're sitting at the moment in do and


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where I'm sitting at the moment in


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Sydney. That's going to be a huge event.


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Perhaps not quite as momentous as seeing


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it from a spacecraft on the far side of


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the moon, but still pretty good. uh and


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uh you know the the astronauts are


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indeed now on their way home. They in a


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sense they've been on their way home


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ever since they left Earth orbit because


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the trajectory that um that the rocket


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was inserted into the the Trans Luna


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insertion move uh which took place above


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the Earth's surface that that really


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placed them on on a path that inevitably


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would take them in a figure of eight uh


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loop around the moon and bring them back


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to Earth. Uh now there are midcourse


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connection sorry corrections. I think


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there is one planned for later today uh


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uh after which I think the um the


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astronauts are going to be given some


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time to themselves because they've been


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pretty hard at work in the last 24 hours


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with the with the lunar far side flyby.


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>> Absolutely. Uh they've achieved so much


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today. Um the four astronauts Reed


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Weisman, Victor Glover, Christina Ko or


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Kosh depending on how you want to


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pronounce it, Jeremy Hansen uh have


00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.189
become the um the first humans to go


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beyond where Apollo 13 set the record


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for the first furthest distance for


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humans from Earth. So they are now world


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record holders. Is it a world record


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when you're not on the world?


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>> I don't


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It's a solar system record. Yes, the um


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yes indeed the distance 47,000


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kilometers from Earth


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>> uh which uh and I think it was about


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400,000 that the Apollo 13 astronauts


00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:53.270
flew out. So it's a significant increase


00:07:53.280 --> 00:07:55.189
from that more than 6,000 km.


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>> So the most isolated humans in history


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in real terms.


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>> Yes, in a that's right in a sense. Um


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and they probably felt like that when


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they were out of communication for that


00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.550
40 minutes when they were in the moon


00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:08.790
shadow from radio signals from Earth.


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>> M yeah and uh one while I was listening


00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:15.909
to the live broadcast uh this afternoon


00:08:15.919 --> 00:08:19.110
our time uh I heard them talking about


00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.909
seeing uh meteorite flashes on the


00:08:21.919 --> 00:08:24.309
surface of the moon. They they spotted


00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.150
uh three four impacts while they were um


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rounding the moon which I I find


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astounding and it was really exciting


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for everybody especially the science


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team that were talking to them at that


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moment.


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>> Now that I didn't hear so that's great.


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That's great.


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>> Yeah. Quite incredible. Yeah. So, you


00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.670
know, things are happening that you just


00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:46.389
you wouldn't. And and apparently where


00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.110
the where these impacts happened, people


00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:50.949
on Earth who were observing the moon at


00:08:50.959 --> 00:08:53.509
the time may well have seen them, too.


00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.630
>> So, um I don't know if it's just a


00:08:56.640 --> 00:08:58.150
coincidence. We just happen to have a


00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:00.070
spaceship right there at the time or


00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.590
this happens a lot.


00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.190
>> I think it's happening a lot. I think


00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.230
that's the bottom line. It's um um you


00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.150
know these things have been observed


00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:10.070
actually since the 1950s when they were


00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.550
called transient lunar events which we


00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:14.949
now know are as you said meteorite


00:09:14.959 --> 00:09:19.110
impacts. Um I also noted that uh two


00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:22.150
relatively fresh and unnamed craters


00:09:22.160 --> 00:09:25.430
have been uh given a name by the uh


00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.550
astronauts. One is is integrity which is


00:09:28.560 --> 00:09:30.550
the name of the spacecraft and the other


00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:32.470
is Carol which is the name of Reed


00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.870
Wiseman's late wife who died a few years


00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:35.910
ago.


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>> Yeah. Lovely lovely stuff. Yeah.


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>> Yeah. And more more to be written I


00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:45.030
suppose as this mission unfolds. Um and


00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:48.389
and so far so good. um and a whole new


00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.630
generation um feeling the same


00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:53.670
excitement we did back in the 60s and


00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:56.310
70s when the Apollo missions did exactly


00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.949
the same thing. This this flyby is


00:09:58.959 --> 00:10:01.430
probably a replication of what Apollo 8


00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:02.630
I think


00:10:02.640 --> 00:10:04.870
>> very much. Yeah, very similar to Apollo


00:10:04.880 --> 00:10:07.750
8. December 1968 I remember it well.


00:10:07.760 --> 00:10:09.670
>> Christmas was


00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:11.750
>> it was Yeah, that's right. Christmas Eve


00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:12.949
I think it might have been but it


00:10:12.959 --> 00:10:15.670
depends on your time zone. It's sort of


00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:17.670
um occurred to me a couple of times. I'm


00:10:17.680 --> 00:10:22.389
kind of rambling a bit now, but um in a


00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.269
perhaps a quai Trumpian manner. Uh but


00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.990
um I think it's really interesting to me


00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.710
because my career in astronomy, my


00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.310
working career in astronomy is kind of


00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:36.230
bookended by lunar missions. Um because


00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.990
it was early in my career that we were


00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.990
watching all the Apollo flights and I


00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:41.750
don't think anyone even with the best


00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:43.509
will in the world would deny that I'm


00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.150
now late in my career and we've got the


00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:48.310
Optimus excitement coming as well. It's


00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.710
just great stuff. It is fabulous stuff


00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.710
and you can read all about it or even


00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.750
watch it live as it happens which we


00:10:55.760 --> 00:10:57.590
really couldn't do back in the 60s and


00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:59.430
70s. Not like this. We had to rely on


00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.590
television but now you can just log on


00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.230
to NASA live and watch it all happen in


00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.350
real time. s. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. Uh,


00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.030
so more more to talk about down the


00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:10.949
track, I'm sure, but uh, if you've been


00:11:10.959 --> 00:11:12.550
following it, well, you probably know


00:11:12.560 --> 00:11:14.790
more than we do. This is Space Nuts with


00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:18.949
Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.


00:11:18.959 --> 00:11:21.430
Let's take a short break from Space Nuts


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00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.750
>> The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the


00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:56.310
moon. Humanity's next great voyage


00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:57.670
begins.


00:12:57.680 --> 00:13:00.710
>> Space nuts. Now Fred, we go from


00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:04.150
excitement to something um quite uh


00:13:04.160 --> 00:13:06.629
upsetting for Australian astronomers,


00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.190
including yourself, and that is an


00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:10.710
announcement by the Australian


00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.470
government to um discontinue


00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.230
uh the the deal with um the European


00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.389
Southern Observatory. It's uh all over


00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.949
Red Rover by the sound of it.


00:13:22.959 --> 00:13:28.629
>> Uh yes. Yes, we still hope for um


00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.190
something to come out of all this, but


00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.590
the backstory here is that Australian


00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.750
astronomers uh since 2017 have had


00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:40.710
access to the best telescopes in the


00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:42.230
southern hemisphere without question,


00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:43.910
the best optical telescopes anyway,


00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:45.750
visible light telescopes, which are


00:13:45.760 --> 00:13:47.110
operated by the European Southern


00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:48.629
Observatory, whose headquarters are in


00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.910
Munich uh and whose telescopes are in


00:13:51.920 --> 00:13:55.990
northern Chile. uh and um those


00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.829
principally the the biggest uh


00:13:57.839 --> 00:14:01.110
telescopes are the four 8.2 2 meter


00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.509
components of what's called the VT the


00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.269
very large telescope uh which have been


00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.110
you know so which um Australian


00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:10.870
astronomers have have had access to


00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:14.710
since 2017 uh and has been a highly


00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:16.710
productive arrangement not just for the


00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.790
astronomers but also because our


00:14:18.800 --> 00:14:20.629
instrument builders here in Australia


00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:21.750
the people who build the fancy


00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:23.509
instruments that go on the back of


00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:28.230
telescopes um are um they are have have


00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:29.990
excelled themselves with what they've


00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.189
achieved uh because of the you know the


00:14:33.199 --> 00:14:35.590
opportunities to build a kit for these


00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.030
giant telescopes. So and plus all the


00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:41.750
spin-offs in terms of education and STEM


00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:43.590
and outreach and all the rest of it


00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.870
which we've tried to capitalize on. Um


00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:49.990
but that partnership was always going to


00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.069
be a 10-year deal. So 2017 to 2027, it


00:14:54.079 --> 00:14:56.790
comes to an end in December next year.


00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:00.389
>> And uh we in the astronomy community uh


00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:01.990
I started worrying about this actually


00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.870
in 2018. Uh what was going to happen


00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:08.069
next uh and to to make a case for the


00:15:08.079 --> 00:15:10.470
next step which would have to be


00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.550
according to the rules of the European


00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:14.389
Southern Observatory would have to be


00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:17.910
full membership. Um and that is the


00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:22.790
stumbling block because whilst um whilst


00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:25.350
10 years of strategic partnership were


00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.870
valued at 129 million Australian


00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:32.550
dollars, 10 years of full membership is


00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:36.389
$400 million uh nearly half a billion


00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.389
and that is something that governments


00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.829
don't like big numbers like that. uh and


00:15:41.839 --> 00:15:43.910
especially in times of financial


00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:46.550
stringent which we understand. Um


00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:49.110
however we do think that the government


00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.790
could have looked rather more


00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:52.870
constructively at other possible


00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:55.829
opportunities uh before making this


00:15:55.839 --> 00:15:58.150
announcement. Uh and there may be still


00:15:58.160 --> 00:16:00.629
scope for that. Um we've you know we've


00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.269
discussed things like uh Australian


00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.749
astronomers making inind contributions


00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.710
to ESO European Southern Observatory by


00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.670
for example building uh instruments in


00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:13.189
including the possibility of a new


00:16:13.199 --> 00:16:15.990
telescope here in Australia that could


00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:21.509
be uh actually um installed in the site


00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:24.470
near the site where the VT very large


00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:26.790
telescope uh unit instruments are


00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:28.710
situated at place called Sarah for


00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:30.790
paranal. Perhaps the most glawing thing


00:16:30.800 --> 00:16:33.189
about this though, Andrew, is that we


00:16:33.199 --> 00:16:35.910
have uh


00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:39.030
our membership, if we were to become


00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:41.829
members of ESO, would give us access to


00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.269
what is going to be the most stupendous


00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.269
telescope in the world when it comes on


00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.910
stream early in 2029. That is the


00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.389
European Southern Observatory's ELT or


00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.509
extremely large telescope. Sorry, one


00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.749
>> that's the one that that's as good a


00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:59.110
title because that's what it's going to


00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:03.269
be. Uh 39 meter diameter mirror. The the


00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.309
mirror diameter is 10 times that of the


00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:07.750
biggest telescope in Australia, the


00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:09.189
Anglo Australian telescope that I used


00:17:09.199 --> 00:17:11.029
to be astronomer in charge of. It's 10


00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.029
times bigger, which gives you a 100


00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:15.110
times the the sensitivity in terms of


00:17:15.120 --> 00:17:17.110
light gathering power and plus many


00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:19.270
other benefits. That will come on stream


00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:22.549
2029. Um it is sure to generate Nobel


00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.110
prizes. uh Australian astronomers will


00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:26.949
be barred from that and the great pity


00:17:26.959 --> 00:17:29.270
of that is uh that Australian


00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:32.710
astronomers have access uh to the square


00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:34.710
kilometer array which will come online


00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.270
at about the same time. Uh and to have


00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.990
those two things together under the you


00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.230
know the opaces of Australian astronomy


00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.150
would have given them a head start over


00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.630
the whole world in terms of discoveries.


00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:48.470
uh because the two things absolutely


00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.150
dovetail together the SKA and the uh ESO


00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.029
ELT that is not now going to happen and


00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.270
we feel that's a wasted opportunity and


00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:00.390
I might just add one more thing if I may


00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.510
because this is um this is a you know uh


00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:05.510
it is something very close to my heart


00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:07.029
I've worked very hard on this for the


00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.230
last almost decade um there is a there


00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.070
was a report that came out uh last month


00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:17.270
written by one of the country's senior


00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:18.789
economists


00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.430
uh a man named Professor Richard Holden


00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.430
and uh he's at the University of New


00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.990
South Wales here in Australia. He has


00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.630
done an analysis of the economic


00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.630
benefits of astronomy. Not just about,


00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.549
you know, the deals that you can do


00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.150
where you get money to build instruments


00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.830
and things of that sort. It's about the


00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:40.549
value of ideas, the the spin-offs that


00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.470
we have. All of those things um are


00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.710
taken into account in a report he wrote


00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:50.150
and he makes the point uh in conclusion


00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.630
in that report that Australian astronomy


00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.029
adds about $330 million per year to the


00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.070
country's economy. Uh which makes $40


00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:03.110
million a year for the ESO deal seem


00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:05.110
really quite proportionate. uh there


00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:07.029
would be a huge return on that $40


00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.909
million uh in terms of other benefits


00:19:09.919 --> 00:19:11.510
and that's what the government's missing


00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:12.390
out on. Yeah.


00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.830
>> Yeah. I think when we talked about this


00:19:13.840 --> 00:19:17.270
a few episodes ago u because we knew


00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:19.029
which was coming up


00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.190
>> um


00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.110
I I said something flippant like you


00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:24.630
know the left hand probably won't know


00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.029
what what the right hand's doing. So the


00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.990
the cost benefit versus cost, you know,


00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.390
the the benefit versus cost analysis may


00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.029
not get on the right desk and the


00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.190
decision could go against you. And I I


00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.310
was being a a smarty pants, but kind of


00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:41.830
looks like that's what's happened.


00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:45.590
>> Yeah. I don't actually I think it's uh


00:19:45.600 --> 00:19:47.990
different from that because um we made


00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.070
sure that the people who are making the


00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:52.710
decisions um and it's not Jordi by the


00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.549
way, but he makes his own decisions. I


00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:56.070
don't know whether you heard that.


00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:56.630
>> I did.


00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.150
>> The people Yeah. the people who were


00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.190
making the decisions um had access to


00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.190
that report. We made that very clear as


00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.789
soon as it came out. Um now um I'm


00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.029
suspect that the minister and his


00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:10.950
science advisers would also have had


00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.350
access to it. Uh so what they've done is


00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:14.870
they've turned their backs on that and


00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.430
they've turned their backs on on


00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.710
something that is very exciting in


00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:22.230
relation to our exploration of the


00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.549
universe at the very time when everybody


00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.150
else is looking skyward because of


00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.549
Arteimus. We we had this news on the day


00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.750
of the Arteimus 2 launch. Uh couldn't


00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:35.909
have been a bigger contrast between the


00:20:35.919 --> 00:20:37.590
two stories. And and where does this


00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:40.390
leave the likes of um the Australian


00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.310
Space Agency for example? I mean the


00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:45.190
government's established that or a


00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:46.630
former government did and they've been


00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.870
pouring money into it. Now now they've


00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:50.870
sort of shot the door in your face in


00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:54.149
regard to um


00:20:54.159 --> 00:20:57.669
the Europe the the um the work


00:20:57.679 --> 00:20:58.470
observatory.


00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.070
>> Yes, exactly. ESO um you know where does


00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:04.710
this put everything? Are we kind of


00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.950
going back to the dark ages?


00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:09.029
>> Um, no, no pun intended.


00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:10.789
>> No, no pun intended. No, we are going


00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.190
back probably several decades for


00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.750
Australian optical astronomy. But


00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:19.750
>> um the space agency has been likewise


00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:22.230
um chastised, if I can put it that way.


00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.230
They had large budget taken off them by


00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.950
the present government about three two


00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.590
three years ago. Uh, and I actually


00:21:31.600 --> 00:21:33.669
wonder if some of this is political


00:21:33.679 --> 00:21:36.870
because the space agency was was uh


00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.669
initiated by a previous government. Uh,


00:21:39.679 --> 00:21:42.390
and the ESO strategic partnership was


00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.549
initiated by a previous government of


00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.110
opposite flavor to what we have now.


00:21:47.120 --> 00:21:49.270
>> Um, so there might be a political side


00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:51.110
to it. I'm sure the minister would deny


00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:54.149
that. It takes all of


00:21:54.159 --> 00:21:57.270
>> course he would. that um I've seen


00:21:57.280 --> 00:21:59.270
politics in action and I I I can tell


00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:01.350
you quite clearly we I'll give you an


00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:03.270
example. We we were going to get a big


00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:05.510
sports hub in do


00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:08.070
and uh it was announced by our local


00:22:08.080 --> 00:22:11.510
member who was also the leader of um his


00:22:11.520 --> 00:22:14.950
party at the time and when they lost the


00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.549
next election the new premier of the


00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:21.270
opponent party took the money away and


00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:23.350
said no you can't have it.


00:22:23.360 --> 00:22:26.390
>> Yeah. and that that was purely political


00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.390
to you just basically to slap an


00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.510
opposition leader in the face and yes


00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:33.669
they would deny it but it's absolutely


00:22:33.679 --> 00:22:35.270
that's just the way the game is played


00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:37.750
all over the world. Um this is really


00:22:37.760 --> 00:22:40.710
sad really really sad that it's it's


00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.750
come to this any any hope Fred of some


00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:45.830
turnaround some chance of


00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:47.830
>> there's always there's always hope um I


00:22:47.840 --> 00:22:48.789
I


00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.190
>> maybe not after what I just said but you


00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:51.510
know


00:22:51.520 --> 00:22:51.990
>> it's okay


00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.149
>> I'm not an astronomer. No, no, no,


00:22:54.159 --> 00:22:56.070
nobody nobody listens to this. It's


00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:58.230
okay.


00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:02.549
Um, look, I I am hopeful. We have some


00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.630
discussions coming up that I hope might


00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.190
emerge from which might emerge some


00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:10.549
perhaps what you might call more


00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.070
affordable options uh which might still


00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:16.310
involve ESO. The problem is ESO has its


00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:17.510
own rules


00:23:17.520 --> 00:23:21.510
>> and ESO is I think it's 17 uh member


00:23:21.520 --> 00:23:24.789
countries and if you do a special deal


00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.470
for Australia they're all going to say


00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:27.990
well why don't we get a special deal


00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.789
like that as well. Um and that's


00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.029
understandable. So ISO has to tread very


00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.950
carefully in this kind of thing.


00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.870
>> Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Well,


00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:38.710
hopefully common sense will prevail


00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.390
sometime in the next uh two years and


00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.870
somebody changes their mind and sees the


00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.669
the benefits rather than just looking at


00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:48.630
the dollar signs.


00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.630
>> Looking at the dollars. That's right.


00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.270
>> Okay. This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley


00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:57.590
with Professor Fred Watson.


00:23:57.600 --> 00:23:59.430
>> Hey, that's one of the better sims.


00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.470
Believe me,


00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.070
>> we've had a couple of cardiac arrests


00:24:02.080 --> 00:24:03.270
down here too, peeps.


00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:05.430
>> There weren't any time for that up here.


00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.070
Space nuts.


00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:11.110
>> All right. Uh, our final story takes us


00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:13.990
um quite a way away from the planet, a


00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.990
little bit further than Artemus 2 has


00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:17.669
traveled, in fact. Uh, the discovery of


00:24:17.679 --> 00:24:22.149
an X-ray binary, Fred. Now, I'm not sure


00:24:22.159 --> 00:24:26.390
what this is. Um, but yes, I I know


00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.350
there's all sorts of um, you know, radio


00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:31.669
wave type signals flying around the


00:24:31.679 --> 00:24:35.830
universe. X-rays, gamma rays, um, AC/DC,


00:24:35.840 --> 00:24:39.029
you name it. Um, but it's all out there.


00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.390
Uh, what is an X-ray binary?


00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.870
>> Um, that's a great question because this


00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.750
is this is a story about an X-ray binary


00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:50.549
that isn't a binary.


00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.470
>> So, just to complicate things further.


00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.870
So what's an X-ray binary? Uh if you've


00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.710
got a star which has got a star a bit


00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.470
like the sun actually these are normal


00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.029
stars like the sun uh gets to the end of


00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.269
its life uh and after usually something


00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:09.990
in the region of 10 billion years. Um


00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:12.630
what it what happens is it it puffs off


00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.470
its outer layers because the nuclear


00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.789
reactions change in its interior and


00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.350
eventually its core collapses to become


00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:21.029
something we call a white dwarf star.


00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:22.390
We've talked about them before. They're


00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.310
about the size of the Earth with about


00:25:24.320 --> 00:25:27.350
the mass of a star. Uh and they've


00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:29.830
basically exhausted their fuel. They're


00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:31.990
still shining because they're very hot.


00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.470
Uh so, um that's an a white dwarf star.


00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.710
Now, often that will happen in what's


00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:42.630
called a binary system. Two stars


00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:44.710
orbiting around their common center of


00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:49.350
gravity. And a binary is actually almost


00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:52.149
the most common form of stars in the


00:25:52.159 --> 00:25:55.190
galaxy. Many many stars that we observe,


00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.990
almost 50% are actually part of a binary


00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.470
pair. They're part of a duo. So, if


00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.789
you've got a star that's collapsed into


00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.669
a white dwarf star, um, which has


00:26:05.679 --> 00:26:07.669
intense gravity, not quite as intense as


00:26:07.679 --> 00:26:09.750
a black hole, but pretty intense, and


00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.909
it's being orbited by another star that


00:26:11.919 --> 00:26:13.590
hasn't got to that stage in its


00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:15.750
evolution, then what you get is the


00:26:15.760 --> 00:26:18.630
white dwarf is sucking matter off the


00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.510
other star and spiraling it inwards. The


00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:23.510
white dwarf's eating it up. Uh, and


00:26:23.520 --> 00:26:25.350
eventually if the white dwarf has enough


00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:27.029
of that stuff, it becomes unstable and


00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.950
turns into what we call a type 1A


00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:33.110
supernova, an exploding star. Um but


00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:35.669
during that process while your your


00:26:35.679 --> 00:26:38.149
white dwarf and your normal star are in


00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:40.630
this dance around each other with stuff


00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.789
being pulled off the normal star that


00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:44.710
stuff will be accelerated by the gravity


00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.110
of the white dwarf and it will emit


00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:50.470
x-rays because it is being so uh so


00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.870
highly excited uh by the energy that's


00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.549
basically being imparted to it as it


00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:57.750
gets pulled in. It's a bit like the


00:26:57.760 --> 00:26:59.990
accretion disc of a black hole. It's a


00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.390
kind of calm down version of that.


00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:05.510
>> Um, so that all makes sense.


00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:07.830
>> I'm glad it does. That's that's where


00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:09.909
the X-ray bit comes from. So an X-ray


00:27:09.919 --> 00:27:12.789
binary is two stars. One's a normal star


00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.950
having its surface sucked away by a


00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.350
white dwarf and that sucking away of


00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:19.510
material causes the X-rays. So that's


00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:21.510
how you discover it. So what has


00:27:21.520 --> 00:27:23.430
happened? But this isn't what's


00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:24.950
happening now, is it? With this


00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.990
discovery. No, no, but that's the that's


00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.310
the backstory if I can put it that way.


00:27:30.320 --> 00:27:34.630
>> Um what has happened now is um there are


00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.510
two of them actually two stars that have


00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:40.310
been uh discovered


00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:43.990
>> which show all the signs of being an


00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.950
X-ray binary in terms of the X-rays that


00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.909
they emit. But there's no other star


00:27:49.919 --> 00:27:52.390
there. There's there's no, you know,


00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:53.990
there's there's there's only the white


00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.310
dwarf. there's there's nothing else.


00:27:56.320 --> 00:27:56.630
>> Okay.


00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.590
>> Um and that means it's an X-ray binary


00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:02.470
that isn't a binary. Uh and two of these


00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.389
things have been discovered um by a


00:28:06.399 --> 00:28:08.230
group of scientists who actually look


00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.630
for these things. Uh they've got


00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.310
interesting names, perhaps a bit more


00:28:12.320 --> 00:28:14.310
imaginative than the usual astronomical


00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:17.830
names. One is called Gandalf. Uh and the


00:28:17.840 --> 00:28:20.549
and the other is called Moonsized. uh


00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.149
they were discovered at different times


00:28:22.159 --> 00:28:25.029
but they're basically um you know they


00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.389
are um part of the same survey. So


00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:31.830
they've got this signature of X-rays but


00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:37.029
um no companion object that is basically


00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:39.669
telling you that it's a normal B X-ray


00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:40.470
binary.


00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.070
>> So


00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:43.830
does that mean there's something else


00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:46.310
there that it's feeding off or


00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:50.070
>> That's correct. It looks as though that


00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:55.909
what what they have is a a half ring of


00:28:55.919 --> 00:28:59.590
material actually circulating around the


00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:01.269
white dwarf.


00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:06.310
>> So, and that this is the debris from


00:29:06.320 --> 00:29:08.389
basically a star being swallowed up,


00:29:08.399 --> 00:29:10.470
another star being swallowed up by the


00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:13.669
by the white dwarf. Uh it's very very


00:29:13.679 --> 00:29:15.909
odd and very unusual and quite hard to


00:29:15.919 --> 00:29:18.389
get your head around. This uh this this


00:29:18.399 --> 00:29:22.149
moving ring um which uh as the white


00:29:22.159 --> 00:29:24.310
dwarf itself spins and generates a


00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:26.549
magnetic field is not actually aligned


00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.630
with where we think the magnetic field


00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:34.870
is. Um so it's it's um it's a puzzle.


00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.350
I'm going to quote one of the authors of


00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:41.350
one of these papers who says to to note


00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:43.990
white dwarfs of similar age and


00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.470
evolutionary stage are typically


00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.789
non-magnetic


00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:50.950
while highly magnetic white dwarf


00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.430
remnants are already an exception.


00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:57.430
Gandalf is now only one one of only two


00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.990
known merger remnants to feature


00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.310
asymmetric magnetization.


00:30:02.320 --> 00:30:04.230
That's all gobbledygook for saying this


00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:06.870
is a very very peculiar pair of objects


00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:08.870
that we uh that we see and they're in


00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.149
different parts of the universe. They're


00:30:10.159 --> 00:30:11.909
not related to each other. They are


00:30:11.919 --> 00:30:15.110
different parts. So this is a really


00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:18.549
interesting um episode because it looks


00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.310
as though a completely new class of


00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:22.070
stars has been discovered here.


00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:24.070
Something that really is not the norm.


00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:25.510
Stuff that we know about and are


00:30:25.520 --> 00:30:27.909
familiar and and love. It's just not


00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:31.110
part of that. It's something quite new.


00:30:31.120 --> 00:30:34.230
as you're explaining it, my thought just


00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.110
went to could this just be the end of


00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:40.310
the partnership? Like it's the the stars


00:30:40.320 --> 00:30:42.070
pretty well just, you know, there's


00:30:42.080 --> 00:30:43.830
hardly anything left. You're still


00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:46.230
getting that X-ray deal going on,


00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:49.110
>> but you know, um there's there's


00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:51.669
>> hardly any material left and see you


00:30:51.679 --> 00:30:53.190
later alligator


00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.029
>> and and what's what's there is spread


00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.269
into half a ring, which seems to be the


00:30:57.279 --> 00:30:59.110
case. Yeah, I think that's I think that


00:30:59.120 --> 00:31:01.750
is probably the the bottom line of this.


00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:03.430
Um, which is is boring.


00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:04.630
>> You figured something out. Perhaps


00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:05.990
>> you figured something out. Yep. Yep.


00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.230
>> Where's my Nobel Prize?


00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:09.750
>> Actually, it's I think I've got it here


00:31:09.760 --> 00:31:12.789
in this drawer. So, I put it away last


00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.510
week.


00:31:15.520 --> 00:31:18.630
Uh, yes, it's um, look, it's great uh


00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.630
that that we've got entirely new


00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:22.310
category of highly magnetized white


00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:24.630
dwarf, which is something that's not


00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.789
been seen before.


00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.870
Yes, indeed. Very exciting. Uh if you'd


00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:30.789
like to read about that, you can see it


00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.750
on uh one of the best websites around


00:31:33.760 --> 00:31:35.990
when it comes to uh science and


00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.750
astronomy. And that's f.org, not fi.


00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:41.830
It's phys.org.


00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:43.590
fizz.org.


00:31:43.600 --> 00:31:45.830
Great story. Uh we had a bit of a


00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:47.269
sandwich there. Good news, bad news,


00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.630
good news, I think.


00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.070
>> Yes. Yeah, that's right. We We do our


00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:53.590
best. We aim to please, don't we? I


00:31:53.600 --> 00:31:55.029
mean, we're we're only adequate, but we


00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.029
do aim to please at some level.


00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.350
>> We do. Yes. Although, you know, depends


00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:00.630
which part of it you were listening to


00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.789
as to what is pleasing and what wasn't.


00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:05.029
I think it was self-evident.


00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.950
>> Yes, indeed.


00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.710
>> We are all done, Fred. Thank you very


00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.750
much.


00:32:09.760 --> 00:32:11.590
>> Great pleasure, Andrew. Always good to


00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:14.230
air my grievances as well as talk about


00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.110
the latest in science news. We'll see


00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:18.070
you next time.


00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:19.430
>> Yes, we will catch you on the next


00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.830
episode, a Q&A episode coming your way


00:32:21.840 --> 00:32:23.830
very, very soon. And uh while you're


00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:26.470
online uh have a listen or have a look


00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.310
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00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:30.149
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00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:56.470
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00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.990
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00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.789
and a half, three stars. Woohoo. No,


00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.870
we've had a few bigger than that. Uh,


00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.029
and thanks to Hugh in the studio. Uh,


00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:06.549
we've just come out of a long weekend


00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.710
here in Australia and Hugh's been away


00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.630
and um he was running late because he


00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.590
was at a convention of white dwarfs. And


00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:15.830
from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your


00:33:15.840 --> 00:33:17.190
company. We'll see you on the next


00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.590
episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.


00:33:19.600 --> 00:33:20.549
>> Space nuts.


00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.630
>> You've been listening to the Space Nuts


00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.950
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00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.909
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