Sept. 22, 2025
Collective Madness: The Haunting Reflection of 'Eddington'
In this episode of *Movies First*, Chris and his co-host Jessica, dive into the thought-provoking film *Eddington*, a haunting exploration of modern America set against the backdrop of a small New Mexico border town during the COVID pandemic. The narrative follows Sheriff Joe Chris, played by Joaquin Phoenix, who begins as a skeptical figure questioning mask mandates in a town untouched by the virus. As the story unfolds, the tension between him and the progressive mayor, portrayed by Peter Pascal, escalates, representing a clash of ideologies that mirrors the national divide.
The episode highlights the personal history between the sheriff and the mayor, adding layers of mistrust and emotional complexity, particularly with Emma Stone’s heartbreaking portrayal of Louise, who finds herself ensnared in an online cult. Chris and his co-host discuss Justin Butler's chilling performance as the cult leader, Vernon Jefferson Peak, and how the film effectively illustrates the alarming rise in online conspiracy engagement during lockdowns, reflecting real-world statistics on belief in conspiracy theories.
Listeners will appreciate how *Eddington* captures the gradual descent into madness, mirroring the slow radicalization observed during the pandemic. The subplot involving an AI center symbolizes the deeper societal divisions, showcasing the clash between technological solutions and traditional values. Chris emphasizes the film's power as a historical document, revealing unsettling truths about the past and present, and prompting listeners to consider the ongoing impact of fear and isolation on communities.
With a solid rating of 7.5 out of 10, *Eddington* serves as a chilling reminder of the collective delusions that can arise in times of crisis, urging viewers to reflect on the societal patterns that continue to unfold. Join Chris and his co-host as they dissect this gripping film that resonates with the complexities of contemporary life.
https://www.bitesz.com/podcast/movies-first
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/movies-first.
To access the Movies First reviews archive visit our website at www.bitesz.com/podcast/movies-first
To access the Movies First reviews archive visit our website at www.bitesz.com/podcast/movies-first
WEBVTT
0
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.200
Chris: Remember when everyone kept saying the world
1
00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:09.040
has gone crazy during COVID Well,
2
00:00:09.040 --> 00:00:10.640
this new film, Eddington, takes that
3
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.080
collective madness and turns it into
4
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:14.920
something truly haunting about modern
5
00:00:14.920 --> 00:00:15.440
America.
6
00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.320
Jessica: That's fascinating how they chose this tiny
7
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.680
New Mexico border town to tell such a huge
8
00:00:20.680 --> 00:00:23.440
story about that period. The M setting
9
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.240
almost feels like a pressure cooker for
10
00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:26.880
everything that was happening nationally.
11
00:00:28.030 --> 00:00:30.110
Chris: You know what's really striking about it? The
12
00:00:30.110 --> 00:00:31.710
way Joaquin Phoenix portrays this
13
00:00:31.710 --> 00:00:34.270
transformation of Sheriff Joe Cross. He
14
00:00:34.270 --> 00:00:36.030
starts as this reasonable skeptic,
15
00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:38.950
questioning mask mandates in a town with
16
00:00:38.950 --> 00:00:41.150
zero Covid cases. But then,
17
00:00:41.870 --> 00:00:43.950
well, things get much darker.
18
00:00:44.430 --> 00:00:46.790
Jessica: The tension between him and Pedro Pascal's
19
00:00:46.790 --> 00:00:49.030
character as the progressive mayor is so well
20
00:00:49.030 --> 00:00:51.470
crafted. It's like watching two different
21
00:00:51.470 --> 00:00:53.790
versions of America colliding in real time.
22
00:00:54.890 --> 00:00:57.170
Chris: And what makes it even more complex is how
23
00:00:57.170 --> 00:00:59.410
they weave in this personal history between
24
00:00:59.410 --> 00:01:01.930
them. The whole backstory about the mayor
25
00:01:02.090 --> 00:01:04.170
supposedly taking advantage of the sheriff's
26
00:01:04.170 --> 00:01:06.690
wife when she was younger. It adds this whole
27
00:01:06.690 --> 00:01:09.450
other layer of mistrust that goes way beyond
28
00:01:09.450 --> 00:01:10.170
just politics.
29
00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:13.130
Jessica: Speaking of his wife, Emma Stone's portrayal
30
00:01:13.130 --> 00:01:15.970
of Louise is absolutely heartbreaking. The
31
00:01:15.970 --> 00:01:17.850
way she gets pulled into that online cult
32
00:01:17.850 --> 00:01:19.930
world feels so relevant to what we saw
33
00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:21.130
happening during lockdown.
34
00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:24.740
Chris: Oh, man. Let's talk about Austin Butler as
35
00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:27.620
that cult leader. Vernon Jefferson Peak. The
36
00:01:27.620 --> 00:01:29.860
statistics about online conspiracy group
37
00:01:29.860 --> 00:01:32.180
membership during COVID are pretty shocking.
38
00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:35.220
Some studies showed a 300% increase in
39
00:01:35.220 --> 00:01:36.940
engagement with these kinds of communities
40
00:01:36.940 --> 00:01:37.860
during lockdown.
41
00:01:38.660 --> 00:01:41.580
Jessica: Hmm. What really got me was how the
42
00:01:41.580 --> 00:01:43.820
film shows the way social media became this
43
00:01:43.820 --> 00:01:45.860
amplifier for collective paranoia.
44
00:01:46.660 --> 00:01:49.060
Like how Deidre o' Connell's character, Dawn,
45
00:01:49.300 --> 00:01:51.980
represents that whole demographic of isolated
46
00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:54.160
older Americans who fel down these online
47
00:01:54.160 --> 00:01:55.040
rabbit holes.
48
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.280
Chris: You know what's interesting? Research showed
49
00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.800
that during the peak of the pandemic, about
50
00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:03.560
40% of Americans believed at least one
51
00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.480
major conspiracy theory. The film really
52
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.040
captures how, uh, isolation and fear
53
00:02:09.440 --> 00:02:11.880
created this perfect storm where, uh, even
54
00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:13.880
rational people started believing
55
00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:15.760
increasingly irrational things.
56
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.480
Jessica: Well, how do you think Ari Aster manages to
57
00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:21.800
make this slow descent into madness feel so
58
00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:22.320
authentic?
59
00:02:23.210 --> 00:02:25.170
Chris: I think it's because he takes his time
60
00:02:25.170 --> 00:02:27.850
building the tension. Like studies showed
61
00:02:27.850 --> 00:02:30.250
that radicalization during COVID wasn't
62
00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:33.210
instant. It typically took about six to eight
63
00:02:33.210 --> 00:02:35.810
weeks of increased online engagement before
64
00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:38.330
people started showing significant changes in
65
00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:41.170
their beliefs. The film mirrors that
66
00:02:41.170 --> 00:02:42.010
gradual process.
67
00:02:42.890 --> 00:02:45.210
Jessica: The way it shows Louise's transformation is
68
00:02:45.210 --> 00:02:47.490
particularly chilling. It's like watching
69
00:02:47.490 --> 00:02:49.530
someone fall down that rabbit hole in real
70
00:02:49.530 --> 00:02:49.850
time.
71
00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:53.140
Chris: And what's really clever is how the film uses
72
00:02:53.140 --> 00:02:56.100
the AI center subplot as this symbol
73
00:02:56.100 --> 00:02:58.300
of the deeper divisions in American society.
74
00:02:58.940 --> 00:03:00.740
You've got the mayor pushing for this
75
00:03:00.740 --> 00:03:03.060
technological future while the sheriff is
76
00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:04.740
trying to preserve this traditional way of
77
00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:07.380
life. It's like watching the rural urban
78
00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:09.180
divide play out in microcosm.
79
00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:11.900
Jessica: That's such a good point about the AI center.
80
00:03:12.220 --> 00:03:14.220
It's almost like the mayor is trying to use
81
00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:16.100
technology to solve what are essentially
82
00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:17.020
human problems.
83
00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:20.370
Chris: Well, what makes the film so powerful as a
84
00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:23.010
historical document is how it captures these
85
00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:25.250
specific details that almost feel
86
00:03:25.250 --> 00:03:28.050
unbelievable now. Like those protests
87
00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:30.250
where young white people were literally
88
00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:32.850
denouncing their own skin color. It's showing
89
00:03:32.850 --> 00:03:34.610
us real things that happened, but through
90
00:03:34.610 --> 00:03:36.170
this slightly heightened lens.
91
00:03:36.730 --> 00:03:38.890
Jessica: The suggestion that America might be even
92
00:03:38.890 --> 00:03:41.330
more extreme now than it was in 2020 is
93
00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:43.860
pretty provocative. Like I Are we still
94
00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:45.540
living in that same kind of collective
95
00:03:45.540 --> 00:03:46.140
delusion?
96
00:03:47.260 --> 00:03:49.380
Chris: You know, some sociologists have suggested
97
00:03:49.380 --> 00:03:52.180
that periods of mass hysteria typically last
98
00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:54.780
about two to three years. But what's
99
00:03:54.780 --> 00:03:56.900
different about our current situation is how
100
00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:59.739
social media keeps these cycles of paranoia
101
00:03:59.739 --> 00:04:02.380
and conspiracy going. The film really
102
00:04:02.380 --> 00:04:04.340
captures that feeling of being trapped in
103
00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.060
this perpetual crisis mode.
104
00:04:06.940 --> 00:04:08.940
Jessica: So what do you think the film is ultimately
105
00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:10.940
saying about where we're headed as a society?
106
00:04:12.130 --> 00:04:13.970
Chris: I think it's suggesting that these divisions
107
00:04:13.970 --> 00:04:16.210
and paranoia aren't just symptoms of the
108
00:04:16.210 --> 00:04:19.010
pandemic. They're deeper issues that Covid
109
00:04:19.010 --> 00:04:21.610
just brought to the surface. The fact that
110
00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:23.690
we're still grappling with many of these same
111
00:04:23.690 --> 00:04:26.250
conflicts 5 years later kind of proves the
112
00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:27.010
film's point.
113
00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.250
Jessica: M that's what makes it such powerful
114
00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:31.850
storytelling. It's using this specific moment
115
00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:33.850
in time to tell us something universal about
116
00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:35.930
how fear and isolation can transform
117
00:04:35.930 --> 00:04:36.450
communities.
118
00:04:37.340 --> 00:04:39.100
Chris: And maybe that's the most unsettling thing
119
00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.460
about Eddington. It's not just showing us who
120
00:04:41.460 --> 00:04:43.900
we were during COVID but who we might still
121
00:04:43.900 --> 00:04:46.740
be becoming. The real horror isn't in
122
00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.620
the past. It's in recognizing these patterns
123
00:04:49.620 --> 00:04:51.940
are still playing out around us. We're giving
124
00:04:51.940 --> 00:04:54.180
Eddington a score of seven and a half out of
125
00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:54.460
ten.
126
00:04:54.700 --> 00:04:57.020
Jessica: You've been listening to movies first
127
00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.980
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
128
00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:02.900
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
129
00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:04.700
player. You can also stream on
130
00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:06.740
demand@bytes.com this.
131
00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:09.440
Chris: Has been another quality podcast product from
132
00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:09.960
science.
133
00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:12.180
Jessica: Com. Um.
0
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.200
Chris: Remember when everyone kept saying the world
1
00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:09.040
has gone crazy during COVID Well,
2
00:00:09.040 --> 00:00:10.640
this new film, Eddington, takes that
3
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.080
collective madness and turns it into
4
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:14.920
something truly haunting about modern
5
00:00:14.920 --> 00:00:15.440
America.
6
00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.320
Jessica: That's fascinating how they chose this tiny
7
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.680
New Mexico border town to tell such a huge
8
00:00:20.680 --> 00:00:23.440
story about that period. The M setting
9
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.240
almost feels like a pressure cooker for
10
00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:26.880
everything that was happening nationally.
11
00:00:28.030 --> 00:00:30.110
Chris: You know what's really striking about it? The
12
00:00:30.110 --> 00:00:31.710
way Joaquin Phoenix portrays this
13
00:00:31.710 --> 00:00:34.270
transformation of Sheriff Joe Cross. He
14
00:00:34.270 --> 00:00:36.030
starts as this reasonable skeptic,
15
00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:38.950
questioning mask mandates in a town with
16
00:00:38.950 --> 00:00:41.150
zero Covid cases. But then,
17
00:00:41.870 --> 00:00:43.950
well, things get much darker.
18
00:00:44.430 --> 00:00:46.790
Jessica: The tension between him and Pedro Pascal's
19
00:00:46.790 --> 00:00:49.030
character as the progressive mayor is so well
20
00:00:49.030 --> 00:00:51.470
crafted. It's like watching two different
21
00:00:51.470 --> 00:00:53.790
versions of America colliding in real time.
22
00:00:54.890 --> 00:00:57.170
Chris: And what makes it even more complex is how
23
00:00:57.170 --> 00:00:59.410
they weave in this personal history between
24
00:00:59.410 --> 00:01:01.930
them. The whole backstory about the mayor
25
00:01:02.090 --> 00:01:04.170
supposedly taking advantage of the sheriff's
26
00:01:04.170 --> 00:01:06.690
wife when she was younger. It adds this whole
27
00:01:06.690 --> 00:01:09.450
other layer of mistrust that goes way beyond
28
00:01:09.450 --> 00:01:10.170
just politics.
29
00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:13.130
Jessica: Speaking of his wife, Emma Stone's portrayal
30
00:01:13.130 --> 00:01:15.970
of Louise is absolutely heartbreaking. The
31
00:01:15.970 --> 00:01:17.850
way she gets pulled into that online cult
32
00:01:17.850 --> 00:01:19.930
world feels so relevant to what we saw
33
00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:21.130
happening during lockdown.
34
00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:24.740
Chris: Oh, man. Let's talk about Austin Butler as
35
00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:27.620
that cult leader. Vernon Jefferson Peak. The
36
00:01:27.620 --> 00:01:29.860
statistics about online conspiracy group
37
00:01:29.860 --> 00:01:32.180
membership during COVID are pretty shocking.
38
00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:35.220
Some studies showed a 300% increase in
39
00:01:35.220 --> 00:01:36.940
engagement with these kinds of communities
40
00:01:36.940 --> 00:01:37.860
during lockdown.
41
00:01:38.660 --> 00:01:41.580
Jessica: Hmm. What really got me was how the
42
00:01:41.580 --> 00:01:43.820
film shows the way social media became this
43
00:01:43.820 --> 00:01:45.860
amplifier for collective paranoia.
44
00:01:46.660 --> 00:01:49.060
Like how Deidre o' Connell's character, Dawn,
45
00:01:49.300 --> 00:01:51.980
represents that whole demographic of isolated
46
00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:54.160
older Americans who fel down these online
47
00:01:54.160 --> 00:01:55.040
rabbit holes.
48
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.280
Chris: You know what's interesting? Research showed
49
00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.800
that during the peak of the pandemic, about
50
00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:03.560
40% of Americans believed at least one
51
00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.480
major conspiracy theory. The film really
52
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.040
captures how, uh, isolation and fear
53
00:02:09.440 --> 00:02:11.880
created this perfect storm where, uh, even
54
00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:13.880
rational people started believing
55
00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:15.760
increasingly irrational things.
56
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.480
Jessica: Well, how do you think Ari Aster manages to
57
00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:21.800
make this slow descent into madness feel so
58
00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:22.320
authentic?
59
00:02:23.210 --> 00:02:25.170
Chris: I think it's because he takes his time
60
00:02:25.170 --> 00:02:27.850
building the tension. Like studies showed
61
00:02:27.850 --> 00:02:30.250
that radicalization during COVID wasn't
62
00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:33.210
instant. It typically took about six to eight
63
00:02:33.210 --> 00:02:35.810
weeks of increased online engagement before
64
00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:38.330
people started showing significant changes in
65
00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:41.170
their beliefs. The film mirrors that
66
00:02:41.170 --> 00:02:42.010
gradual process.
67
00:02:42.890 --> 00:02:45.210
Jessica: The way it shows Louise's transformation is
68
00:02:45.210 --> 00:02:47.490
particularly chilling. It's like watching
69
00:02:47.490 --> 00:02:49.530
someone fall down that rabbit hole in real
70
00:02:49.530 --> 00:02:49.850
time.
71
00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:53.140
Chris: And what's really clever is how the film uses
72
00:02:53.140 --> 00:02:56.100
the AI center subplot as this symbol
73
00:02:56.100 --> 00:02:58.300
of the deeper divisions in American society.
74
00:02:58.940 --> 00:03:00.740
You've got the mayor pushing for this
75
00:03:00.740 --> 00:03:03.060
technological future while the sheriff is
76
00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:04.740
trying to preserve this traditional way of
77
00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:07.380
life. It's like watching the rural urban
78
00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:09.180
divide play out in microcosm.
79
00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:11.900
Jessica: That's such a good point about the AI center.
80
00:03:12.220 --> 00:03:14.220
It's almost like the mayor is trying to use
81
00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:16.100
technology to solve what are essentially
82
00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:17.020
human problems.
83
00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:20.370
Chris: Well, what makes the film so powerful as a
84
00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:23.010
historical document is how it captures these
85
00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:25.250
specific details that almost feel
86
00:03:25.250 --> 00:03:28.050
unbelievable now. Like those protests
87
00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:30.250
where young white people were literally
88
00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:32.850
denouncing their own skin color. It's showing
89
00:03:32.850 --> 00:03:34.610
us real things that happened, but through
90
00:03:34.610 --> 00:03:36.170
this slightly heightened lens.
91
00:03:36.730 --> 00:03:38.890
Jessica: The suggestion that America might be even
92
00:03:38.890 --> 00:03:41.330
more extreme now than it was in 2020 is
93
00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:43.860
pretty provocative. Like I Are we still
94
00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:45.540
living in that same kind of collective
95
00:03:45.540 --> 00:03:46.140
delusion?
96
00:03:47.260 --> 00:03:49.380
Chris: You know, some sociologists have suggested
97
00:03:49.380 --> 00:03:52.180
that periods of mass hysteria typically last
98
00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:54.780
about two to three years. But what's
99
00:03:54.780 --> 00:03:56.900
different about our current situation is how
100
00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:59.739
social media keeps these cycles of paranoia
101
00:03:59.739 --> 00:04:02.380
and conspiracy going. The film really
102
00:04:02.380 --> 00:04:04.340
captures that feeling of being trapped in
103
00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.060
this perpetual crisis mode.
104
00:04:06.940 --> 00:04:08.940
Jessica: So what do you think the film is ultimately
105
00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:10.940
saying about where we're headed as a society?
106
00:04:12.130 --> 00:04:13.970
Chris: I think it's suggesting that these divisions
107
00:04:13.970 --> 00:04:16.210
and paranoia aren't just symptoms of the
108
00:04:16.210 --> 00:04:19.010
pandemic. They're deeper issues that Covid
109
00:04:19.010 --> 00:04:21.610
just brought to the surface. The fact that
110
00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:23.690
we're still grappling with many of these same
111
00:04:23.690 --> 00:04:26.250
conflicts 5 years later kind of proves the
112
00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:27.010
film's point.
113
00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.250
Jessica: M that's what makes it such powerful
114
00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:31.850
storytelling. It's using this specific moment
115
00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:33.850
in time to tell us something universal about
116
00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:35.930
how fear and isolation can transform
117
00:04:35.930 --> 00:04:36.450
communities.
118
00:04:37.340 --> 00:04:39.100
Chris: And maybe that's the most unsettling thing
119
00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.460
about Eddington. It's not just showing us who
120
00:04:41.460 --> 00:04:43.900
we were during COVID but who we might still
121
00:04:43.900 --> 00:04:46.740
be becoming. The real horror isn't in
122
00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.620
the past. It's in recognizing these patterns
123
00:04:49.620 --> 00:04:51.940
are still playing out around us. We're giving
124
00:04:51.940 --> 00:04:54.180
Eddington a score of seven and a half out of
125
00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:54.460
ten.
126
00:04:54.700 --> 00:04:57.020
Jessica: You've been listening to movies first
127
00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.980
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
128
00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:02.900
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
129
00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:04.700
player. You can also stream on
130
00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:06.740
demand@bytes.com this.
131
00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:09.440
Chris: Has been another quality podcast product from
132
00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:09.960
science.
133
00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:12.180
Jessica: Com. Um.
