Dec. 1, 2024

EP 115: Steven Streufert

EP 115: Steven Streufert

Steven Streufert from the Bluff Creek Project joins us to discuss his interests and thoughts on the topic.

PLEASE LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, AND REVIEW ON ALL PLATFORMS: YouTube, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker, or wherever you listen!

Sean...

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Season 10

Steven Streufert from the Bluff Creek Project joins us to discuss his interests and thoughts on the topic.

PLEASE LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, AND REVIEW ON ALL PLATFORMS: YouTube, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker, or wherever you listen!

Sean Forker hosts SASQUATCH EXPERIENCE, featuring Matt Arner, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, and Henry May.

Creative Consultants:
Matt Knapp (Bigfoot Crossroads) & Les Sincavage (Xplorers: Seekers of the Truth).

Show Executive Producer: Brian Corbin

Special Thanks to all our Patreons!
The Experiencers: Jeffreylee Matthis, Got Knockers!, Larry Sharpe, and Tom Mihok
Trackcasters: Scott Dieterle, Bass1802
The Hollers: Cindy Brewer, Gail Frederick, David Hickernell, Bryley Hull, Matt Arner, Okie Mechanic, and Lori Worthington

Without their support, this show would not be possible. For as little as $2 per month, please consider becoming one of our supporters: https://www.patreon.com/Sasqua... />
Our show intro music, “Epic Action Trailer” by Roman Senyk Music, is licensed to us for commercial use. “9-11 Bigfoot Call” is also used under Fair Use. Sean and Gabriel Forker are credited with the intro and exit voiceover work. Sasquatch Experience Trailer music, “It's in the Fog” by Darren Curtis, is used with permission and attribution.

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WEBVTT

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The views and opinions expressed by the guests of Sasquatch

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Experience do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the host, sponsors,

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or affiliates of the Sasquatch Experience. As always, listener discretion

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is advised.

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We got someone or something growing around out here?

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Does a legend walk among us working in the forests

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of our world?

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Did you see what it was?

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Was it a person or an animal?

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Or I can't go off if I know as if

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my thunder light came on and I hear happened to

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Glenn and see the thing running across the yard a

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good fight man or something works like a man. I

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don't know what it was.

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For over fifteen years, we've talked with scientists, researchers, investigators,

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and witnesses trying to gain insight and proof around the

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existence of this mysterious entity.

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Jesus quiet ar heel, Hello, get somebody out here.

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What's going to announce?

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There's got to revention about six foot nine?

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I don't know, easy announce there.

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Yeah, I'm working right away.

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Oh okay, hand on her yarn?

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Yeah, God, it's big.

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Okay, what's he doing in your yard? We're gonna do you.

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Join us as we continue into the investigation of the

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Sasquatch Experience. And well, well, good evening everyone, Welcome to

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the Sasquatch Experience. Sean Forker, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, Matt Arner.

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No Henry May yet tonight, of course, as we are

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brought to you by the longest intro in Bigfoot podcasting

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right there on your screen, we got to shorten that up.

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Gentleman.

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It's been a long time, but we do have a

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great guest tonight. But before we bring our guests on

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the show, we did want to take a moment. A

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couple deaths in the realms of cryptozoology and upology. Christopher O'Brian,

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of course, the author of Stalking the Herd, researcher involved

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in a lot of cattle mutilation studies, passed away over

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the weekend. And of course Paul Halsey, you know, more

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acquainted with our good friend Henry May. I met Paul

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a couple occasions, but didn't quite have the you know,

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opportunity to build a friendship with Paul. Besides, you know,

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just a general passing acquaintance. But again, our condolences go

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out to Paul's family and friends. You never want to

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experience these things, and unfortunately it's that part of life

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that happens. But damn it always happens, especially around this

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time of year.

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It just a's a little deeper cut.

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But again, express our condolences out there. Was going to

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give Henry some time to talk and if he pumps on,

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maybe we'll do that a little later. Give him a

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chance to, you know, say some kind words about his

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friend James Baker back in the habit without rambling on

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too much. Goat, folks, we do have a great guest

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on the program tonight. Matt was kind enough to put

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this together. Matt, do you want to go ahead and

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give a little intro to our guest of the program?

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Well, absolutely, if anyone in the big thimming world is

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involved in in gets in the coalition group, it is

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a fantastic, fantastic group that was put together by our

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guest Steven. Really it gives that critical thinking that is

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much needed UH for UH for this type of research

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and and UH in interest. So UH kudos for putting

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that together, for putting together a very well blended UH

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audience and in group members who probably have the best UH.

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I guess we could say arguments, but in a sometimes

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in a more pleasant manner, you know, across the internet.

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So uh, definitely kudos to to you Steven and uh

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and again you know, we thank you for being on

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the show.

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It could be a little lag there, Matt, I believe you. Yep, oh, yep,

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he popped back.

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There we go, there he goes.

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We got Mario. I'm looking for the chat room, but

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it's disconnected me from the talk here.

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What happened to me?

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Have choice one or the other.

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We'll read the questions to me as they come in. Stephen,

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don't worry. We'll make you.

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I'm sitting here, yeah, looking at you guys, not the

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chat room. So any any trolls that come in, I

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hope you will squash them. Warning.

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We got your back, buddy, We got Stephen. I uh,

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we've been acquainted. I don't know if we've ever actually

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had conversation besides maybe just a couple of sentences on

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the internet through the years. Uh, that happens from time

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to time, right, you kind of run parallel, maybe don't

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run into each other. But we've seen some of the

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craziness over the years and the fighting, the stupidity that

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runs rampant, the hoaxes that get bent out of control

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and and and run rampant over the internet. You've been

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there since before where the internet was really a thing.

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So why don't you tell us your origin? How did

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you get involved in bigfoot? And why would then you

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start a coalition group on Facebook?

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That's the interesting thing, because all my life I was

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really pro bag foot, believing in bigfoot, fascinated by bigfoot

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and aliens and other things like that too, you know.

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But the longer I stayed involved in these fields of study,

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the more I was forced by the discourse to take

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a skeptical position, you know. And I've been pushed to

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that degree where people think I'm a a troll, a

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non believing troll who has been lurking in the bigfoot

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community trying to sabotage it somehow. But the fucking sorry,

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the fact is that I don't know if I can

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use my normal language here at the fact is that

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I've always been very pro research and pro rational methodology

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and pro science. So if that conflicts with your looney

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woo woo belief systems, then well good. I mean, I'm

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glad it does, but that doesn't make me a troll,

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someone who's been his whole wife thinking about Bigfoot. Okay,

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so I don't know who you people out there are

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who are lurking in all the Bigfoot groups now saying

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things like oh, they're just non never believer in trolls.

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So I called me here to harass us. And you

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know where were you twenty years ago? Person? You watched

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Expedition Bigfoot and got inspired by Maria Mayor or whatever.

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I mean, Come on, this is all a lonely a

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TV show, and you know before that, at least Finding

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Bigfoot had real Bigfoot researchers on it, like Bobo and Cliff.

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I mean, say what you like about Matt or for Day,

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but you know I know those guys from being in

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the woods with them. And that's the real Bigfoot community

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right there, is looking looking for Bigfoot at Bluff Creek.

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That's how I grew into it, you know, It's how

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I got absorbed into it as an adult, and I'm

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happy that I was.

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It was.

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It was, I will say, past tense now a very

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good experience to add in my life.

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I think you make a really good distinction there about

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about your I call it belief system. It's not really

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a belief system. But you know, there's nothing wrong with

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believing yet taking that skeptical approach to everything that's put

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at you, Steven. If we didn't do that, everything that

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came across the internet would be accepted as Bigfoot evidence

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kind of almost like it is today by most people.

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But to those that have been around for a long time,

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I still think there's that standard of what we could

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we We used to call it critical thinking, now it's

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called you call it. You know, you get accused of

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being a troll. No, we just have a higher standard

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of what evidence is.

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Yeah, like John Green, he's a troll too, I guess,

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right right, yeah, and Forne Forne to Hinden, he was

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definitely a troll. I mean, come on, I mean, these

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are the fundamental principles upon which modern some North American

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big footery was founded. Uh, be rational, you know, seek

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a scientific approach, you can find it to whatever is

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being rewarded. And you know, it's been a constant war

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with the wu Wus ever since then. The wu Wu

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is a is a spirituality thing that is really separate

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from Bigfoot and exists exists in American culture. Like regionally,

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you'll go to places, and they'll have mysterious haunted places

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or places where monsters have been seen or aliens have

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landed or whatever the hell it is. Right, everyone's got

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their own regional witch or demon or ghost or goblin,

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and that I mean combine that with like Native American

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spiritual roots and a lot of other you know, European superstitions,

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and you've got a fertile cultivation ground for all manner

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of mysterious blogoney to you know, sprout up everywhere. And

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that's what's been happening.

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Why do I think it's so attractive? Why do you

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think it's Why do you think that's become the more commonplace?

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Do you think it's because folks really they can't come

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up with an explanation for Bigfoot, so they just throw

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it all into a popo re and say, oh, this

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is really Yeah.

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Well we you know, in the in the Coalition group,

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we've warned people about these things for the whole time

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we've existed. And the group was founded in two thousand

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and eleven. You know, it's been thirteen years of fighting

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this battle. And you know, it started fighting the wu Wuos.

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It started by being in groups where we thought we

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were talking about Bigfoot. The next thing we knew, we're

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talking about stick structures and glyphs on the ground and

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secret languages being spoken, and before you know it, it's

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mind speak and it's aliens. You know, you can start

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listening to people like Carlo Williams or Tom can Troll

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or Igor Burtsev. Even the supposed scientists is actually not

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a scientist. But you know, people like Kwoni Laps right as.

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These people were the looney fringe of the day back then,

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and they've all sort of faded away, and there's been

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a whole new generational sweep taking over, so that people

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like me are actually kind of bewildered, like where did

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all these new people come from? Like it used to

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be like I could just look at what's happening for

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the week and I'd say, oh, look there's a Billy

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Willard show on or whatever. Right, Oh look they're Sean

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Forker's show, and I'd listen to that. You'd have somebody

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talking like who knew what the heck they were talking about?

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Like John Green or somebody was on there. And now

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it's like who are these people? You know, they come

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out of nowhere, they buy a plot of land, and

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they're like suddenly finding they put tracks on it. You know,

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I'm just speaking of one guy. I don't want to

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name him, but like he was a little suspicious. He's

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a very smart guy, starts a podcast, buy some land.

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All of a sudden, now he's got big foot tracks

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on his land. That is to me very suspicious. But

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I mean, at least he's taking a fairly rational approach, right,

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So I'm not one to rule that out or anything,

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even like the stuff that Tom Powell proposes, like quasi

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mystical stuff, because I mean, we're weird creatures ourselves, the

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human race, our species is weird, and we are naturally

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inclined to see things in terms of our own weirdness, right,

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So like when there's something happening out of the woods,

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we don't understand it, We're going to see a projection

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of ourselves. Like that is a lot of what bigfoot is.

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It is clearly clearly a lot of it anyway, is

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obviously psychological or mystical, philosophical, whatever you want to call it.

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It's definitely not just an animal in that sense. And

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like when when you have science supposedly failing like it

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did with the Ketchum study, which kept us all strung long,

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like how many years, like seven years. It's still going

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on now that uh, you know, we predicted Ketchum would fail,

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and we showed how she was failing all along the way,

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and we had real scientists supporting our view on this

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00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:35.320
that he's doing false forms of DNA study. And we

220
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.360
knew what was going to happen after that is the

221
00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.200
Wu is going to be broken free and they're gonna

222
00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:43.960
like run rampant as I mean, pretty much exactly what

223
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:51.279
they did. So you even have people like these wu

224
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:56.120
Wu people from the past being resuscitated, you know, brought

225
00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.559
back into the brought back into the field after they'd

226
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.879
already been chased away. You know, he's still got like M. K.

227
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.960
Davis to people like him, right.

228
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That every so often that massacre theory comes back.

229
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I can't I can't believe it. I mean, I started

230
00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.240
getting involved in the war in two thousand and eight

231
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.039
when I when I heard about the massacre theory from

232
00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:26.360
Henry Maine, and I'm like, I can't believe this. And

233
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.120
I mean I've spoken with Henry over the years, and

234
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I mean it's astonishing how it's still still goes on

235
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no matter how much ever we put into it. We've

236
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got we've got Bill Miller presenting the full film from

237
00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:47.759
John Green that was supposedly the massacre. And you can

238
00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:51.480
see blue water running through the creek. It's not blood.

239
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.720
And you know, and you know, once you think you've

240
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:59.039
got m. Davis cornered, he quits and retires. Like I've

241
00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.519
got him to retire at least twice on my own

242
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.679
once alive on a radio show, The big Foot Tonight Show,

243
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.480
drove him into retirement, and he just comes right back,

244
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:13.919
come back, you can't resist.

245
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.000
Yeah, Well, they think with that new audience, they get

246
00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.320
a whole new generation of, like you said, folks that

247
00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:20.279
want to you know.

248
00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:21.440
Buy into that.

249
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.159
And and the problem is they just don't go back

250
00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.279
into the homework. They don't go far enough into the

251
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:31.399
history and and pick up on you know, the point Stephen,

252
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.000
that you made or other folks have made, or stuff

253
00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.759
that's actually just in the film that there's nothing to interpret.

254
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.679
It's there, you know, like the film is the film.

255
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.080
There's no hidden artifacts or messaging or secrets in it.

256
00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:46.360
It's it's rare.

257
00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:50.799
But yeah, the Patterson's film, you.

258
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.879
Mean, yeah, I mean there's nothing there besides what's showing

259
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:57.320
on the on the on the screen.

260
00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.159
Not to mention though, what's showing on the screen and

261
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:05.680
are optical illusions. You know, when we went to try

262
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:10.839
to find the film site, I was amazed. In two thousand, uh,

263
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.960
two thousand and one, I couldn't find it. Two thousand

264
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.359
and seven I went to then I went to the

265
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.799
conference with these guys. They took me down there and

266
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.319
they pointed out to me where the film site was supposedly,

267
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.720
and uh, that was just one of the theories. It

268
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:31.640
turned out. After the two thousand and three symposium in

269
00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.759
Willow Creek, they all went up there and nobody could

270
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.160
pinpoint where the film slight even was. You know. M. K.

271
00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.839
Davis's friend walked downstream and found a certain spot, and

272
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.480
other people walked upstream and that I still can't see it.

273
00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.599
John Green was there, he couldn't identify it. And Jim Learn.

274
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.359
I mean, these guys, these guys, none of them, I mean,

275
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.039
all that collected knowledge al Odson was involved. No one

276
00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.400
could pinpoint where it was. And so when we went

277
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:04.480
walking along we had to realize that the view of

278
00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:08.920
the film is a plane on a two dimensional flat plane, right,

279
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.039
and you're looking at a bunch of information that has

280
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.400
to be sorted out like triggerometrically, you know, it has

281
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:22.279
to be put into a three dimensional version of the

282
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.400
in your mind just to be able to see where

283
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.440
the film site even is. Because those trees in the back,

284
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:31.759
they are like three hundred feet away from the camera.

285
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.920
You know, there is a big plane. And if you

286
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.920
don't have access to the information like we did with

287
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:45.599
the Christopher Murphy's book, the means the Sasquatches what we had.

288
00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.599
And there's a view from above the film site taken

289
00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:53.359
by Renading Inden in nineteen seventy one that shows all

290
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:59.039
the stumps and everything that was there then after the

291
00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:02.160
film was shot. Now it's all grown back so that

292
00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.839
all you see is a you see the cover of

293
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.240
our book, the Bluff Greek Project book, that's the title.

294
00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:14.400
You'll see a drone footage taken by our guy Rowdy

295
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.519
Kelly of the film site, and we know it's the

296
00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.799
film site. But what you what all you're seeing is

297
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.480
is an outline of trees grown back on the sand bar,

298
00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.759
you know, and you can see the creek, the shape

299
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.960
of the creek, and it all matches up with the

300
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.839
story told by Bob Gimlins and everything else, But even

301
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:39.759
then you have to get down on the ground. When

302
00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.839
Bob Gillen was there, he didn't even identify the big Tree.

303
00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:49.799
In twenty eleven, they just he identified where he thought

304
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:53.960
they first were shooting the film, and then we were

305
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.279
doing our survey of the site, and we surveyed every

306
00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.480
inch of that whole sand bar the size of a

307
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:05.559
square football field, and we were able to show exactly

308
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.559
where the big Tree was. I mean, I couldn't believe

309
00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.480
when I first saw the big Tree, it like it

310
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.559
was like hidden in the background, and it sort of

311
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.039
just emerged out, like, oh my god, there it is,

312
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.079
you know, like sitting right next to it, where the

313
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.119
other trees that were supposed to be there. And we

314
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:28.039
had had actually we had arguments amongst ourselves right in

315
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:32.920
front of those trees just a few weeks earlier. We

316
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.599
had been there arguing about it, and our guy Ian

317
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:39.519
had said, this can't be the place. It just can't

318
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.160
be the place. And he went walking off and started

319
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:46.680
playing with his GPS and taking readings all around the

320
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.279
area where me and Robert sat there, and said, well,

321
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.200
I guess I have to do the survey, you know,

322
00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.160
And when we did that survey, we were able to

323
00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.400
look at it three dimensionally and see that all those

324
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.680
stumps and the log piles and the old trees were

325
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.960
still there. So at that point we had stable anchors

326
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.160
that could not be denied, and they still can't be denied.

327
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.119
We've added confirmed by Bill Munz and just about anybody

328
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.400
who's got a brain who's been there will agree with

329
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:27.319
our position. It's like scientifically proven. But MK Davis, he's

330
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:32.039
still going on and on about how we are the debutantes,

331
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:35.119
Like we just came along and said, oh no, that's

332
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:40.920
not the real film site, and he, on the other hand,

333
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:44.720
has no evidence, is not a single bit of evidence

334
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.960
that is related to the current site compared to the

335
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:49.920
site back then.

336
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.119
Well, I have to tell you, you guys have put

337
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:58.200
together quite the tone on the research you did to

338
00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:59.759
you know, into the film site.

339
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.400
Low yeah, pages.

340
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:06.240
I hope you guys have read it and enjoyed it.

341
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:10.960
We tried to make it about something more than just ourselves,

342
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.759
you know, right, because it's really our story, like our

343
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.440
adventure that we took to go out and into the

344
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.599
world and to seek the answer to this great mystery,

345
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.279
like where is the film site? You know, we didn't

346
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:31.519
even have to propose the real hypothesis, which is Bigfoot

347
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:35.720
exists or not. You know, we just said, where's the

348
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:39.680
film site? And we were able to demonstrate a fact

349
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:45.519
in the natural real world that cannot be denied. And

350
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.640
it's just it's just beyond laughable that there's still people

351
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.839
who are trying to deny it. Mhm.

352
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.359
Well, you know what's funny is that, you know, even

353
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.839
for the search for the Big Fellow himself, the difficulty

354
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:03.079
in finding the film site was its own challenge.

355
00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:03.759
Yeah.

356
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:05.759
It's not like you could just go and prove it,

357
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.880
you know. You guys put the work in the accuracy

358
00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.160
to ensure that this is where I'm at, This is

359
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.200
where we can validate these landmarks to prove this is

360
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:15.920
the film site.

361
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.200
Yeah, I mean, how can you deny How can you

362
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:22.039
deny a set of stumps that are in the perfect

363
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:28.400
matching alignment with the photographs from the film itself and

364
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.599
afterwards by known researchers that have been there, You can't.

365
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.680
And we've done trigonometry, you know, we had our our

366
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:42.559
fellow Jamie Wayne, joined the group and did the trigonometry,

367
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:48.480
with the survey and with the photography, and I mean

368
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.680
it showed that it's beyond doubt, you know. I mean

369
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.480
Bill Mant spent two days there with us, serving and

370
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.079
working on the site. Thing. There's no doubt about it.

371
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.079
So who is this guy? Mk? Davis? He doesn't even

372
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.559
go to the place that we m that we talked about.

373
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:10.160
He gets down there and he immediately has downstream to

374
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.440
his own special place where he he you know, finds

375
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:16.319
like bones in the rocks and tries to claim that

376
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.559
it's a bigfoot bone.

377
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:22.119
Oh boy, Mac, go ahead, did you have a question

378
00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:22.759
there or a baker?

379
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:25.279
Well, first, I want to thank you.

380
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.000
I wanted to clap through most of your conversation here

381
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.079
because you you pretty much say what I do, except

382
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:31.880
you read a book.

383
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.680
And the fact is is because.

384
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.799
I look at it, I look at all the I

385
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:39.839
enjoy the lore, but I look at.

386
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:41.519
It from a scientific point.

387
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.240
Of view, and a lot of people get mad about that,

388
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:45.640
like you don't believe it or whatever. I have never

389
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:47.480
seen anything personally.

390
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.039
But I've seen photos. I've seen things.

391
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.680
Plus I've listened to a lot of people that are

392
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.960
really smart and aren't taken easy by a stupid you know, rumor,

393
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:00.480
but you make a good you make valid points. So

394
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.160
a lot of this newer stuff is you know, I

395
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.759
always call it like Columbuses. They discovered bigfoot, so everything

396
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.240
they see must be what it has to be, and

397
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.960
there's no arguing with them. And those people I just

398
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:14.680
kind of walk away and go over and have a

399
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.039
taco or something or go, you know, I just ignore

400
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.319
them and they get mad or because they're like, why

401
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.960
aren't you interacting? Like because you have nothing of value

402
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.039
to the conversation, Okay, because you don't want to hear

403
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:27.400
a perspective.

404
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:27.640
On the other side.

405
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.839
Kind of how I handle politics too. But it's a

406
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:34.920
weird thing. But you know, in general, though, I want

407
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.079
to thank you for saying the things you say, because

408
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.920
you are bringing up valid points that we have always

409
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.079
and Sean Sean will admit because he's been with me,

410
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.839
how long is I always ask the utterly stupid questions

411
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.079
of where other people are standing there going don't you

412
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.559
just believe them? No, it's like asking what does God

413
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.319
need with the starship? Okay, you ask If you ask

414
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.359
me for some stupid request, I'm gonna ask why and

415
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:03.960
why why?

416
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:08.440
You know you know why is God angry?

417
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.640
Well, you have to look at your first principles. What

418
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.119
are you starting with? Now? If you're starting with a

419
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:20.880
belief in God and angels and devils and demons and

420
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.799
goblins in the woods and stuff like that, then of

421
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:28.920
course you're gonna also see bigfoot as something weird. But

422
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.119
I mean, if you're a naturalist, you start with what

423
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:39.079
can be established empirically and rationally, and you know, then

424
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.200
they'll say, well, okay, don't be so closed minded. Well

425
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:46.880
I'm not closed minded. I mean I'm an rational agnostic.

426
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.359
I don't believe that we know everything, so you can't

427
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:56.160
call me closed minded. I'm actually saying, very specifically to

428
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.559
your face, I'm an agnostic. That means I'm open minded.

429
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:07.000
That means I'm considering, with curiosity and determination, what is

430
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.559
being presented to us by reality. And I know for

431
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.640
a fact, by my own personal experience, is that there's

432
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:17.480
way more to reality than what we see with our

433
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:22.000
eyes or with our science even, you know, but we

434
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.559
have to progress based upon evidence. You can't just say,

435
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.160
well because I had a dream where I talked with

436
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:34.640
Sasquatch and Sasquatch was my teacher. I mean he taught

437
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.960
me about the spiritual world they came from. I mean,

438
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:43.039
that doesn't make it real. Okay. You know, Matthew Johnson

439
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.480
or whatever. You are a psychologist PhD. You don't have

440
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:51.880
the right to go around acting like people should listen

441
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:55.039
to you. You know, you've got the same obligation that

442
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:59.720
we all do as part of basically the social contract,

443
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:05.319
which is to establish what is real amongst ourselves. You know,

444
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.119
and we can say the universe is intelligible. We can

445
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.200
learn about things that are in the universe and try

446
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:17.200
to understand them objectively, and then if there's knowledge to

447
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:20.279
be had, that should be able to be extracted and

448
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:26.119
presented to other human beings and established as real or false.

449
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.599
You know, like, these are basic principles of science. And

450
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:35.960
science is not about the mainstream science. It's not about

451
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.839
the status quo. I mean, there may be scientists who

452
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.119
are trying to play the game of getting a grant

453
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:46.400
or whatever, or to control the direction of a field

454
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:49.880
of the department or whatever. But the truth is you

455
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.200
need to do this every step of the way. When

456
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.519
you're practicing science or any other form of inquiry. You

457
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:02.240
have to be able to try to stay objective of rational. Otherwise,

458
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.319
what are you doing? You might as well just write

459
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.960
poetry or or start a religion or something.

460
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:08.960
Saspros.

461
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:10.640
That's what these other people are doing.

462
00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.319
I think that's one of the key things is though,

463
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.359
is the biggest problem that happens is a lot of

464
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:20.640
people get it in for the research and I'm not

465
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.640
making I'm not making fun of people on Discovery Channel.

466
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.480
I'm not fun of the people that are making the

467
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.079
TV shows because I get it. You you have a

468
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.319
passion for a thing, you have a knowledge for a thing,

469
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.920
and then somebody says you can get a paycheck, you

470
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.799
start wavering a little bit, like hey, for production value,

471
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.279
Mary's gonna see the third Sasquats this week because she's

472
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.000
got a tight shirt and knows how to screen.

473
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.599
Okay, And that's what says.

474
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:49.359
I mean, like I loved Mountain Monsters, and like, but

475
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.599
you knew if you were really watched Mountain Monsters from

476
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.720
the beginning they were like, we're just out there having fun.

477
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.519
If you actually nine what we're putting in here, you directly.

478
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:05.839
But then if you watch shows like Expedition with Josh

479
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.599
Gates and some of that he puts he puts a

480
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.599
lot of real knowledge in it. But you can tell

481
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:13.240
that at the end of the day, a lot of

482
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:16.799
that's production value, you know, and I think a lot

483
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:18.359
of it.

484
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:23.920
It's like on a spectrum of credibility that I would

485
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:28.000
say that anything on television is not fully credible. But

486
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.839
at the same time, I know, having spent all those

487
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:35.000
years with Bobo and Cliff, and you know, talking with

488
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:39.319
the other people among the Finding Bigfoot crew and producers,

489
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.039
and they would call me up every year and ask

490
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:44.599
me for advice, and I'd give it to him. You know,

491
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:47.720
sitting there in my perch and in Willo Creek, I

492
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:52.359
could see everything happening right like in the mecca of

493
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:55.920
the world of Bigfoot, and I could tell you that

494
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:58.839
there are there was a lot of concern in that

495
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:04.680
show to try to keep it real right, and especially

496
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:09.759
among the stars of the show, I mean especially Matt,

497
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:15.559
I mean well especially Cliff and Bobo. For sure. Absolutely

498
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:21.559
they are both people of high integrity and they would

499
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.039
not sell out and they give him the chance, they

500
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.960
would still fight to the death to be true and

501
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:35.759
honest and real. And that's where it's different with other

502
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:42.519
shows like Expedition Bigfoot, which is fake from day one

503
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:49.519
absolutely fake. I mean Bryce, I know Bryce from being

504
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.279
in a movie with him with Bob ed Goldwaye. He

505
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.119
is really sincerely interested in Bigfoot. But I don't think

506
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:01.200
he's really a researcher. He's playing the researcher on the show.

507
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.240
He's an actor, and he would probably be the first

508
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.200
one to tell you that if you asked him in private.

509
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.440
But Russell Acord, I don't know where that guy came from.

510
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.119
But he, you know, claims to have been a research

511
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.599
over like forty fifty years or whatever. And I never

512
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.759
heard of him. I mean I never heard of him

513
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:27.079
and never heard anything from him because he wrote some

514
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.119
fiction book.

515
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.319
And we have that problem with the revisionist history of

516
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:36.400
people creating their own you know, for those of us

517
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:38.960
that have been here since the early two thousands, where

518
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.079
the hell did you come from?

519
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.559
Yeah, you were? If you were so much a part

520
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:46.720
of the Bigfoot research, I would have known about you,

521
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.680
because when I first got involved, I was I was

522
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.319
very conscious of trying to know who everyone was and

523
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:58.200
to figure out where they were all coming from. And

524
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:02.359
it was a limited few of people, like you know,

525
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:04.759
there were a few hundred of us basically.

526
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.559
Yeah, now, there's so much truth of that, and it

527
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.319
has grown to the point where, uh, you know, probably

528
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.160
more innumerable than it used to be. But there's still

529
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:20.039
a difference between the enthusiasts and the researchers. Though sadly,

530
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.039
I think a lot of the researchers Steven have just

531
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.680
now said, you know what, fuck it, I'm you know,

532
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.359
I'm going to go over here, I'm going to go fishing,

533
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.359
and when everybody else goes away, I'll come back.

534
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.880
Yeah, exactly. I've seen a few of them come back,

535
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:36.319
like Billy Willard recently. That's why I mentioned him. I

536
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:40.279
was on his show recently. But they used to be

537
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.000
these were the guys that did the shows every week,

538
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.599
and I mean a lot of us have moved on

539
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:50.359
or died. I've he sadly, before you realize that twenty

540
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:54.799
years has gone by and there's been it's been such

541
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:00.160
an engaging process that, you know, I was so involved

542
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:02.680
and living right in the middle of it, I could

543
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:05.559
not escape it. It was a daily thing. I saw

544
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.159
big but every day, you know, driving down the street

545
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.800
of Willow Creek, you see one, two, three, four, five, six,

546
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.400
seven bigfoot statues or signs or whatever.

547
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:27.760
Oh Okay, yeah, he's got statues. We got to take

548
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:28.880
a quick break here.

549
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:29.320
Guys.

550
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.239
We'll be back in about six minutes, so go ahead

551
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.360
and take care of what you need to. Folks. You're

552
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:36.840
listening to the Sasquatch Experience Sean Palker, Vance and as

553
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:39.400
It Matt Arner, James Baker and our guest Stephen Stroyford

554
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:43.519
will be right right after this as soon as I

555
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:47.519
find Vance's button. I mean, that sounded bad.

556
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.280
We'll be back.

557
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:52.559
Oh boy, steam a symbol.

558
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.880
Thanks. That is all about overeating. I mean one of

559
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:08.679
the main dishes is actually called stuffing. Stuffing, what names

560
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.719
that they turned down? Cram it in, eat till you

561
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:16.440
can't breathe? Am I the only one that doesn't feel

562
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.800
comfortable with the fact stuffing is cooked inside a dead animal.

563
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.599
Shove a loaf of bread up there, delicious?

564
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:30.880
Ah, yes, but see I prefer craym berry at in sauce. Well,

565
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.840
happy Monday night to you on this triple leave to

566
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:38.320
the Thanksgiving where turkeys are the creature of the day apparently.

567
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.840
But and first I need to apologize for the nasal

568
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.880
ees because yes, it's that time of year where the

569
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:49.159
head colds are you know, transporting from person to person.

570
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:53.679
For every doorknob you touch, you're at risk. But anyway,

571
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:58.119
A Peoria, Illinois truck driver transporting mail for the US

572
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.440
Postal Service in a twenty five twenty four foot box

573
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.440
truck in rural central Illinois reported seeing a huge creature

574
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.079
alongside the road, believed to be Bigfoot, while completing his

575
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.559
route back on October fifth of this year. He was

576
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:18.800
interviewed by Bigfoot investigators, who labeled it as it was

577
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:23.840
an official sighting of the mysterious massive creature also popularly

578
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:28.480
known as sasquatch or Skunkcape. Now we don't have Skunkcape

579
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.639
in central Illinois, and there's journalism for you. Highlighted. Troubled

580
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:38.880
by what he saw, truck driver Gary Rutherford Junior looked

581
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:42.679
for bigfoot research online and found a community message board

582
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:49.480
and posted his encounter. Bigfoot researchers and investigators found him

583
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.920
from that report, and now his tale is part of

584
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.800
a viral video on TikTok that has three hundred and

585
00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.519
sixty thousand views and more than eight hundred in thirty

586
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:05.159
comments in less than twenty four hours. The information from

587
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.880
the video came via a post from the BFROS Matt Moneymaker.

588
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:13.559
Now Rutherford is quoted as saying, I'm not calling it

589
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:18.000
a bigfoot. The investigators have concluded that's what it was,

590
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:21.920
and I can't accept that. Rutherifer said. All I know

591
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.800
is it scared the absolute hell out of me, and

592
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:27.199
I can't get it out of my mind. I thought

593
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:29.599
about it for days and felt like I needed to

594
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.840
tell someone or report it, and that's how I ended

595
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:39.000
up online. Now Rutherford Junior continued on by stating, on

596
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.199
October fifth, I was maybe three quarters of a mile

597
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.480
into Route nine, and I had my low beings on,

598
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:48.800
still fairly dark out at six am when I saw it.

599
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:51.920
I didn't process this thing until I was right up

600
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.480
on it. I did a double take. It was standing

601
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.000
on two legs with brown fur. I drove past it

602
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.719
in about five seconds. In that moment, it locked eyes

603
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:07.039
with me, orange yellowish glowing eyes, and I realized it

604
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:10.039
was eye to eye even though I was sitting high

605
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:13.159
up in a twenty four foot box truck, so I

606
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.480
estimated the thing to be at least eight feet tall.

607
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:17.599
I was just.

608
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:21.280
Stunned trying to figure out what I just saw. He

609
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:25.840
arrived in Canton to offload his mail shaken. He told

610
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:28.719
employees there about it, and later on he told his

611
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:32.199
family members he did go back in daylight to look

612
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:36.679
at the area, hoping to find footprints, but unfortunately it

613
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:41.559
was heavily lined with grass. When we come back, put

614
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:45.280
your parkson, your mittens, on your tups, and get bundled

615
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.880
up because we're going to go into January.

616
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.360
You're listening to the big foot bullhorn right here on

617
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:54.639
the Sasquatch Experience.

618
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:08.280
It's not Dockers, it's got Knockers. Hey, have you been

619
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.519
to the squatchfield site on the interweb that has it all,

620
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:16.119
introducing got Knockers dot Org. Stop on buy for an

621
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.480
intriguing story of the encounter that started at all.

622
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:24.599
But wait, there's more. Got Knockers offers some fabulous merchandise

623
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.960
like T shirts, hoodies, onesies for the baby, plus a

624
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:33.840
stunning array of jewelry and some fantastic sauces that will

625
00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:35.559
make your taste buds dance.

626
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:39.039
But the coolest of all is a genuine god Knockers

627
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:42.039
tree knocker. Stop on by and say hi to the

628
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:46.079
folks of Got Knockers. Gwendolyn and Michael Purcell. Get in

629
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.719
on the action and just visit Got Knockers Dot Org

630
00:39:50.079 --> 00:40:18.440
again Got Knockers dot o RG. Well, thank you Ted Man.

631
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:22.719
Like I said prior to that break, get your parkison,

632
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:25.440
because this is going to be one of the first

633
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:31.000
Bigfoot events of twenty twenty five exactly. It'll be Friday

634
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:35.599
and Saturday, January twenty fourth and twenty fifth of twenty

635
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:40.559
twenty five and its squatch Fest in Longview, Washington. It

636
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.119
is an annual celebration dedicated to all things Bigfoot. Held

637
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:49.239
in the picturesque city of Longview, nestled in the lush

638
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:55.599
greenery of Washington State, This festival brings together enthusiasts, researchers,

639
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:59.360
and curious visitors alike to revel in the mystery of

640
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:03.760
the legend dairy creature. At Squatchfest, you can expect a

641
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:08.199
range of activities and attractions designed to entertain and educate

642
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:14.719
attendees about Bigfoot and its cultural significance from expert speakers

643
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:21.239
sharing their latest research. The address is nineteen hundred seventh

644
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:28.280
Avenue in Longview, Washington. Thanks again for listening to this edition.

645
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:33.400
Another big footbullhorn right here on a Sasquatch experience and

646
00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:35.400
as a turkey always says.

647
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.679
Until we meet again, keep your.

648
00:41:37.559 --> 00:42:00.000
Toe in the mind, mind, and welcome back everybody Sasquatch experience.

649
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:02.559
Sean Forker, Vance Nes But, Matt Arnoer, James Baker, and

650
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.000
our guest tonight, mister Steven Stroyford Stephen. Before we were

651
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.679
on the break, I almost forgot we were talking about Vance.

652
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:11.159
Look what you did to me.

653
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:15.280
Yeah, I do my best, and I do my best.

654
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.239
Go ahead, Vance, you chime in here and get some

655
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:18.320
good questions going on.

656
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:22.760
Well, you know, I'm kind of I'm very intrigued on

657
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.119
the skepticism in which you have brought, Stephen, and I

658
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.960
greatly appreciate it because I spend a lot of my time.

659
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.719
I'll look at a video, I'll look at testimony, and

660
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.519
I think I take it from the same perspective that

661
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:45.000
you do. I don't buy all of it, but I'm

662
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:48.639
still intrigued by it, and I want to know what

663
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.880
is the absolute truth? And it's so hard to get

664
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.639
to that absolute truth? And what's your take on that?

665
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:57.800
How do you get to the absolute truth?

666
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:03.039
Yeah? Well, I don't think we ever do really, so

667
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:09.280
as human beings, we're a species stuck on a planet

668
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:13.920
in a bit of the galaxy spinning around through space.

669
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.039
How are we going to know everything?

670
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:17.760
Right?

671
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:21.840
We don't know. We're just beginning to know. If you

672
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:28.559
think about it, how ancient is the universe and yet

673
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:35.320
how young we are. I mean, we're studying our own origins, right,

674
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:41.800
And we look at creatures like the Neanderthals and the

675
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:47.679
Denisovans and the Fluoresce Hobbits, and we're like discovering new

676
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:52.280
things every day. And these are things that have existed

677
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.840
within reasonable time frames of modern history, right like uh

678
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.159
And with the big Footing inquiry, of course, there is

679
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:06.639
always the assumption that maybe I'm not an assumption, but

680
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.840
the feeling that maybe something still lives from our ancient

681
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:17.960
past that we just never fully extirpated and held before

682
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:22.679
the world as an extinct, dead uh species, or even

683
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:25.519
something I mean, frankly, that we ever discovered in the

684
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:31.000
first place. We're looking at Denisovans. They are they're known

685
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:35.519
to be human. We've bred with them, We're part Denisovans,

686
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.400
We're part of the Enderthal. These species never went extinct,

687
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.480
they just emerged with us, right, I mean in a

688
00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:48.880
certain way, they we lost that that form of human

689
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:53.599
uh life, but we have continued to carry its genes

690
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.519
with us. Now that that's mysterious enough right there, And

691
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.280
I don't I don't need to talk about spaceships and uh,

692
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:08.119
you know, I'm having sex with a new bile ancient one.

693
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:15.000
Bigfoot emails in my dreams while I'm camping, like like

694
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.159
you can read about in the Laps writis book Keeone book.

695
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:27.119
I mean, there's always been science fiction and weird stuff

696
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.119
because we don't understand reality. So what do we come up?

697
00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:36.119
We come with stories that help us understand them. And

698
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:39.559
the most powerful stories are the mythological.

699
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:45.440
Ones, and that's very true power myth. I guess I

700
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:48.679
want to answer the question then, for the amount of

701
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:53.840
time that you have spent looking into this field of research,

702
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.920
and I'm just going to leave it just at that

703
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:01.199
field of research. As you have gotten older, has your

704
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:02.960
perspective changed at all?

705
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:09.719
Well? Yeah, like I was saying earlier, you know, I was,

706
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.039
I was much much more inclined to believe in Bigfoot

707
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.880
before I encountered all the bigfood researchers. You know that

708
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:23.000
it was they, one after the other who taught me

709
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.079
how to be skeptical. All right, I mean even when

710
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.159
you get down to people like Jeff Meldrum or clif Barrickman,

711
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:33.920
or people that might be able to be your friends

712
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:37.760
or colleagues, you still have to be skeptical of what

713
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:41.280
they say, because I mean, I know for a pretty

714
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:45.599
darn close to the fact that the stuff in Bluff

715
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:52.079
Creek was a hoax, Like maybe not the Jerry Crew tracks,

716
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.360
but all the rest of it after that was Ray

717
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:00.880
Wallace and his buddies creating a bunch of goofy footprint

718
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.920
tracks and laughing about it. And I know this from

719
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:07.840
talking with people who live there, you know, who told

720
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.559
me the stories of how they were part of it.

721
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:14.360
And you know, I never did see like the absolute

722
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.559
convincing proof, like here's the wooden feet hanging on the

723
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.079
wall in the garage, right, but I was told, I

724
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:22.960
was told, as a matter of fact, that they were

725
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:27.920
indeed hanging on the wall in the garage. And you know,

726
00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:31.239
you see those tracks in what was presented when Ray

727
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:35.559
Wallace died, and you know, you can't deny it. They

728
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:41.639
matched up perfectly perfectly with the tracks that were found

729
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:45.400
in Bluff Creek. And there's even one among all the

730
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.320
potos I've been able to see, there's one photo that

731
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:54.519
shows the track that could match with the Jerry Crew track,

732
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:59.480
but it's shown a bleak angle, so you're not exactly

733
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:04.119
seeing it with a perfect comparison, but it is very close.

734
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:10.159
And I know for a fact that the Blue Creek

735
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:14.559
Mountain and Onion Mountain tracks were faked in nineteen sixty seven,

736
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:18.440
right before Roger Patterson was called up to come down there.

737
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.920
So the only thing that stands out to me among

738
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:28.440
all the Bluff Creek evidence is the Patterson stuff, and that,

739
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.639
of course, you know, has a lot of people questioning

740
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:35.960
it as well. Maybe Patterson was just a better craftsman

741
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:40.840
than Ray Wallace was. But back in the days of

742
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.119
Jerry Crew, you know, Jerry Crew didn't make that footprint.

743
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.599
He was honest, sincere believer, and a lot of people

744
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:56.079
in the Bluff and Will Creek history they are sincere believers,

745
00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:00.440
you know. So I mean, I question all of the

746
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.800
evidence claims, even the ones that are made by my friends,

747
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.119
and the things that my own group has found. You know,

748
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:13.920
we've found plenty of things that could be big foot tracks.

749
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:17.239
We've done plenty of things that could have been maybe

750
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.960
a bigfoot blurrying up our trail cameras, which have been

751
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:26.800
running for twelve whole year's NonStop now in Bluff Creek

752
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:33.519
at least, you know, an array of them, NonStop monitoring

753
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.440
for bigfoot and all kinds of other things. But whatever

754
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:42.280
we see, we have had zero bigfoot evidence that I

755
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:47.719
could stand behind, you know. We on the other hand,

756
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:53.840
we've discovered that there are endangered species living on the

757
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:59.960
film site area, the Humboldt Martin, which was fairly recently

758
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:05.960
just declared an official endangered species. Uh it's really you know,

759
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:11.440
like a pine Martin, but a regional variant of it.

760
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:13.599
But you know, they're they're they were thought to be

761
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:18.480
extinct here. They're genetically distinct population from the surrounding pine

762
00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:22.199
mark Martins. And this goes back to you know, ice

763
00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:26.119
age formations and stuff, where you know, we know that

764
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:32.360
they they were just segregated off from the other populations,

765
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.559
and we've shown that they're still living quite happily, prancing

766
00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:39.639
around on the field site, and they seem to be

767
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:43.960
in a mated pair at least one made pair producing babies.

768
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:50.559
So I would not just answer your question though, trying

769
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:54.760
to be more briefed, like you know, uh, my own

770
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:59.679
perspective has changed because I can't just believe in something

771
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:09.199
without substantiating it to be true and claims like like

772
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:12.400
the step Just take the Olympic Project as an example,

773
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:17.519
very smart guys, all all of them wanting to produce science,

774
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:22.039
not wu you know, and yet there they are with

775
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.679
these bigfoot nests things that you know, we all looked

776
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.480
at it from my side of the picture and said,

777
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:33.079
those look kind of like bear nests or or maybe

778
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:36.760
they are all wood rat nests or something. But you know,

779
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:39.920
they even't got to the point where they you know,

780
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:45.519
they were running a go fundme project for uh, the

781
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:49.159
DNA testing of this stuff, and they finally got around

782
00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:53.639
to doing it, and what did they find? No bigfoot

783
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:59.440
evidence at all, not a single shred of evidence. And

784
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:03.719
then this fact has been hush hunched by the Olympic

785
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:09.400
Project guys. It was revealed by by Laura kant Krantz

786
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:15.159
in her podcast, The wild Thing Podcast, and she, I

787
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.840
guess maybe was not supposed to have done that, but

788
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:23.599
she had Todd Disstel on the show saying well, we

789
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:27.360
found nothing. We found bear, we found deer, we found human,

790
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.960
we found everything. But what you are looking for, which

791
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:36.599
would be some kind of primate that is not human

792
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:42.519
and so anyway, like the fact that not only do

793
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:47.800
we have people who can't just move on to reject

794
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.760
that as false evidence, but you have an active cover

795
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:56.039
up program to hide that back. And you have people

796
00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:03.400
in the in the Bigfoot community talking shit about you

797
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.440
behind your back because you are not one of them anymore,

798
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.239
you know, And like, this is the thing that's really,

799
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:18.519
I phone, particularly hurtful, truly and also harmful to not

800
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:22.639
just me but to others, to the discourse in general,

801
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:28.239
that there is a cult like behavior pattern going on here, yeah,

802
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:32.599
which strikes me is very similar to some pretty negative

803
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:37.920
cult history before this. I mean, why would you have

804
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:42.559
a cult surrounding Bayfoot? I don't quite get that. But

805
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:46.280
people who have seen one, or who believe they saw one,

806
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:54.440
are very adamant about trying to verify what they experienced.

807
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.239
And like, you know, I wasn't there, so I can't

808
00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:00.320
say for sure that they didn't. You know, I have

809
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:03.519
to say, well to my friends and the other people

810
00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:07.199
who say they saw me, put yeah, maybe maybe you did,

811
00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:11.719
and maybe I even did. Because there was one night

812
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:14.199
in my own yard, one night up on the hill

813
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:27.599
above Willow Creek, when there were no, are you still there?

814
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:29.840
We're still here, yep.

815
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.599
Okay, sorry, it's one of those obnoxious Facebook.

816
00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:36.920
Calls that and we get it.

817
00:54:38.119 --> 00:54:41.440
But so anyway, so there I am in my own yard, uh,

818
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.760
and there's something heavy. The ground shakes when it comes

819
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:48.000
down the hill. I hear it crashed into the brush.

820
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:51.599
And the next day I find tracks in the in

821
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:56.320
the understory plants that look like footprints, you know, there

822
00:54:56.360 --> 00:55:00.599
depressions in the grass, not like mud tracks. But okay,

823
00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:05.199
this thing happened, and it happened before my eyes, although

824
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.119
I didn't see it, you know, it was in the dark.

825
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:12.280
I was out there, you know, waiting for it to

826
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.920
move while it was stable in the brush about thirty

827
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:20.119
yards for me, and I could not explain to you

828
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:23.519
what it was. I finally I decided to go back

829
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:26.840
towards my house and I sat there by the cabin

830
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:32.400
porch edge and just listened to what was happening. And

831
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:35.119
like sure enough, it started moving down the hill and

832
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:37.800
it was back in the neighboring yard, which was vacant

833
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:41.880
house at the time, and moving up behind the brush,

834
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:46.280
you know, which was scotch broom and grape vines and

835
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:49.880
some other plants. And it was back behind there, and

836
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:53.599
I could hear it breathing and walking. And I don't

837
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.159
think it was a bear. I mean, because I have

838
00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:00.840
I had bears coming up to my house quite frequently.

839
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:06.199
Where I lived was basically on a game trail near

840
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:09.880
a creek near also a bunch of fruit trees and

841
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:13.639
stuff that the little neighborhood I was in had, So

842
00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:17.920
I mean bears, I could distinguish them from a person

843
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:21.000
or whatever else. This, whatever it was, it was something different,

844
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:25.000
And I mean it sounded like a biped to me,

845
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:28.559
and a heavy one to make the ground shake like that.

846
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:32.519
I mean, you'd have to weigh quite considerably more than me.

847
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:37.000
You know, I don't know what it was. I didn't

848
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.159
see it, so I can't even say to myself that

849
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:45.000
I saw bigfoot or had a big foot encounter. I've

850
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.480
had everybody like Matt Moneymaker whomever that was a squatch

851
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:52.639
as I mean, I've had them up there showing them

852
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:55.920
the spot, and well, can I say, you know, I'm

853
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.119
the most skeptical one of all of my own experience.

854
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.239
I empathized with that Stephen myself, having had my own

855
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:09.239
experience with something and always wanting to be skeptical. You

856
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.440
don't want to buy into your own bs, you know

857
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:13.199
what I mean, And you really want to have that

858
00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:17.159
extra fine magnifying glass to pull out all your own details.

859
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:21.440
It's kind of a mindscrew to deal with, and it

860
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:26.320
affected me for a long time. I really feel you

861
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:29.519
on that one, because I'm still very, you know, strongly

862
00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:32.519
skeptical about my own experience. And it's just harder when

863
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:34.000
you've been in this for a long time. Did I

864
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.920
really experience something or am I adding more to it

865
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.480
because maybe in my mind I want it to be

866
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:40.320
that way.

867
00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:42.320
Ye, I don't know, but that was for me. That

868
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:47.719
was two thousand and eight and I was my mother

869
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:52.440
was in the hospice. I was going down to spend

870
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:56.280
time with her in the hospice while she was passing away,

871
00:57:56.360 --> 00:58:01.920
you know, and right before I left was this weird experience.

872
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:05.039
And I can't help but think in some part of me,

873
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:09.119
I really deeply wanted it to be Bigfoot to show

874
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:13.239
that there was magic still left in the world, or

875
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:18.199
that despite the fact that I was losing control, like

876
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:24.400
of being able to save my family, you know, I

877
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:28.199
could at least I could at least experience Bigfoot coming

878
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:30.679
and walking in my yard. Now, I don't know what,

879
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:34.199
but you know, there's a long tradition in humanity of

880
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:39.400
experiencing like vision quest or whatever you call it. You know,

881
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:46.360
in times of importance, Bigfoot is said to arrive and

882
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:49.239
to bring a message to humanity. That I mean, that's

883
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:54.039
like a common Native American statement. I've heard that from many,

884
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:58.559
many tribal people, you know, saying that to me. So

885
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.639
or rather than books, you know, uh so, I mean,

886
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:04.679
I think that that could happen just as soon as

887
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:09.280
it with myself or any of us. In the modern

888
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:14.199
American world. Out there in the woods, you can experience

889
00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:17.239
these things and they they take on a to mention

890
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:24.360
of reality that is like self accelerating. You know, you

891
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:27.920
you're you're wrapped up in it, You're absorbed in it.

892
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.639
And like having lived in the Willow Creek for all

893
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:34.920
those years, now I'm not. I'm suddenly in a different

894
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.920
world altogether. You know, where Bigfoot does not matter to people.

895
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:42.119
I mean where I am now, I'm looking around. I

896
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:46.280
don't see any Bigfoot stickers or Bigfoot statues.

897
00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:47.440
Mm hm.

898
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.239
The only the only place I see them is like

899
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:57.079
maybe in a tourist stop. They have Bigfoot shot glasses

900
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:01.519
and postcards, you know, but it's a weird thing to

901
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:04.440
not have it. Like, now that that's not in my life,

902
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:10.239
I feel this sort of weird emptiness, like, uh, where

903
01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.159
did that magic go? Where's the Bigfoot? You know? Like

904
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.679
what can I what can I replace it with? You know,

905
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:20.559
something else? Maybe I don't know, but you know, part

906
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:22.559
of me I want to move somewhere else, like maybe

907
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:27.639
I'll go to Mount Chesta study the Limorians or Aliens,

908
01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:33.280
you know, But there aren't There aren't any Bigfoot where

909
01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:36.000
I am currently. I don't think it's a there's hardly

910
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:40.639
even any trees here. Yeah, there's like a there's an ocean.

911
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.519
I can see the ocean from my front porch, you know.

912
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.320
You know it's kind of crazy that you mentioned that.

913
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:52.639
Because I'm in northern Illinois. I cannot tell you the

914
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:58.159
plethora of Bigfoot culture that I see on bumper stickers,

915
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:03.039
on window dc ells on a daily basis. I see

916
01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:06.320
this now. I understand. A lot of it is, oh,

917
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:12.599
this is just a cool culture thing, but here, we

918
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.840
don't have that here. But yet a lot of people

919
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:18.679
pick up on that culture and they go on the

920
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:22.840
Bigfoot thing and there's Bigfoot with the American flag over

921
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.639
its back with the peace sign up. Okay, it is

922
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:28.719
what it is. But boy, do I see a lot

923
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:29.280
of it here?

924
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:33.519
Yeah, and you guys are I mean, I have to say,

925
01:01:34.840 --> 01:01:38.920
you're in a much higher population density than we have

926
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.199
out here in the West, right, Like you guys have

927
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.159
conferences and like, I don't know how you do it.

928
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:49.159
Thousands of people show up, you know, all right, we

929
01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:52.800
had conferences here in Willa Creek with Bob Gimlin standing

930
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:57.519
right next to me. Yeah, and everybody famous and it's

931
01:01:57.559 --> 01:02:02.199
like one hundred and fifty people show up. Yeah, it's

932
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:02.880
really weird.

933
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:08.760
So listen before we go, here's the question that if

934
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:12.559
Henry was here, he would definitely want want to ask you,

935
01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:15.800
especially with uh, you know, your your history at the

936
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:18.920
bookstore and everything. Can you tell us maybe your top

937
01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:25.599
three books we're involving Bigfoot research that that are a

938
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:26.679
must have for you?

939
01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:31.760
Oh well, okay, yeah, I have to narrow it down

940
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:34.480
that much. I would say I would definitely want to

941
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:43.639
have John Green's book, I mean, irreplaceable Bible, a factual

942
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:48.519
pursuit of of what's going on and what's being reported.

943
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:52.880
I mean it's dated by now, but all the more

944
01:02:53.360 --> 01:03:01.480
required because of the strong, the strong rational argument City makes.

945
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:06.360
They're not perfect. John Green was not a professional scientist

946
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:09.679
or philosopher, but he was very bright guy, and he

947
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:16.360
was very sincere about his pursuit of the meaning or

948
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:23.039
the reality of this thing. Regardless of whether it's real

949
01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:28.400
animal or not. Something is happening, and it's not just hoaxing.

950
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:33.039
It's a whole complex mixture of things. And that's sort

951
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:35.280
of what John Green was right on the edge of

952
01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:40.280
all the whole time. Like beyond John Green, I would say,

953
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:44.519
you've got to have You've got to have Roger Patterson's book,

954
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:47.559
just because I'm fond of it. You know, to me,

955
01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:51.920
that book is it's just charming, and I had to

956
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:55.000
own a first edition of That means you're holding a

957
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:58.880
copy that Roger probably carried around in the trunk of

958
01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.880
his car or whatever he was driving to deliver to

959
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:08.760
you know, he had his own distribution route, and he

960
01:04:08.840 --> 01:04:13.440
also had these four while theater presentations that he gave,

961
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:17.920
so a great number of the copies that sold were

962
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:22.880
actually handled by Roger. And I mean that the sad

963
01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:26.280
truth of the being that Roger Patterson died in nineteen

964
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:31.760
seventy two, right, very long time ago for us now,

965
01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:37.480
I mean I wish that he had been around longer.

966
01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:40.159
It would have been so interesting to see how he

967
01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:45.119
developed as a character and a researcher. Or maybe maybe

968
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:48.039
he would have confessed to hoaxing. I don't know, but

969
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:52.000
it would have been great. And Bob Gimlin, I mean,

970
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:55.719
he's been very interesting to have around, but for the

971
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:59.599
most part he was he was separated from it for

972
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:02.960
a long time time, didn't want to get involved, felt

973
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:04.880
like his wife was going to dump him for the

974
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:09.800
negative attention they kept getting all that when he's talked

975
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:14.719
about that on and on. But so Jon Patterson, I

976
01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:17.840
would have to say, well, you should probably get yourself

977
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:22.599
a copy of Christopher Murphy's book, Meet the Sad Squatch

978
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:27.079
or or Know the Sasquatch. There's two versions of it,

979
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:32.039
and they're both different. The first version was written with

980
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:38.440
Tom Steinberg and John Green, and it excluded all the

981
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:43.280
WU stuff. And it also excluded Peter Burn. I mean

982
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:47.039
John Green made that like a rule, like no Peter

983
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:51.440
Burn or I'm not doing it. And so when finally,

984
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:55.599
when Chris Murphy wanted to do his second edition. He

985
01:05:55.719 --> 01:05:59.000
had to say to John, well, I'm going to rewrite

986
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:02.119
the thing, and he rewrote it so that he could

987
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:07.119
remove basically all of the writings of John Green and

988
01:06:08.119 --> 01:06:11.599
restate it in his own way. But I mean, so

989
01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:17.000
they're they're different, not necessarily contradicting each other or anything.

990
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:21.840
Mostly mostly it's a second edition to the first book,

991
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:26.639
but either one, it's going to give you a great

992
01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:34.320
presentation of the quality uh pictorial history of the field

993
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:37.840
of Bigfoot from the beginning, including you know, Native Americans

994
01:06:37.880 --> 01:06:42.880
and yetti, abominable snowmen and all of that. And no

995
01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:46.679
one's done quite as thorough a job on it than

996
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:52.360
than the Christopher Murphy, although I mean their flaws. Like

997
01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:55.440
he had in his book, he had the film site identified,

998
01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:58.599
and I had to tell him, you know, you better

999
01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:01.320
stop doing that because he just proved that it's wrong.

1000
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:04.320
And he was going to go up in front of

1001
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:09.400
the whole conference in Washington and gives this presentation. And

1002
01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:12.760
yet he said he was grateful he was able to

1003
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:16.679
modify it in the last minute. But you know, you

1004
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:20.320
had always google eers the images and stuff that were

1005
01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:25.599
not accurate. And anyway, he was close, but not close enough.

1006
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:29.360
You know. So anyway, those are the three. I would

1007
01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:33.119
also recommend you know, read some skeptical books, like there

1008
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:38.079
are good skeptical books like they might piss you off, right,

1009
01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:46.280
like the book Life in Times of a Legend, Bigfood

1010
01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:50.199
Life and Times of a Legend by Joshua Booze as

1011
01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:53.320
b u h s uh. This is a book that

1012
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:57.199
when I first met money Made, I first met Matt Moneymaker.

1013
01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:01.000
He came in my store, wrapped this thing out of

1014
01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:04.400
the front window and stalked up to the desk and said,

1015
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:09.800
holding the book up, you should burn this thing. I'm

1016
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:14.599
just like, holy shit, it's that Moneymaker. But anyway, that

1017
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:19.239
was a classic moment for me. That book is very

1018
01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:25.119
thorough and it's historical analysis and it's it's a critical book.

1019
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:28.439
But if you I always say to the believers, you know,

1020
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:33.840
if your belief can't withstand the skepticism of one author

1021
01:08:34.760 --> 01:08:39.279
or like me, a Facebook group leader or whatever, then

1022
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:41.199
how is it going to ever stand up to me

1023
01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:47.239
with the very eye standards of real science? And I

1024
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:50.600
always say for it to be science, for it to

1025
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:55.720
be real, you have to have the highest standards. They'll

1026
01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:58.439
shoot you down. Otherwise you're going to be shot to

1027
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:02.399
pieces if you can't to say what you think is real,

1028
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:05.520
and that's the way it should be.

1029
01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:10.079
Well, I'm going to put note to self right now.

1030
01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:15.600
I'm writing this down, UH, Vance and Steven best friends,

1031
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:21.560
I because I appreciate every aspect you have just taken,

1032
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:26.520
and uh, it sits well within the cockles of my heart.

1033
01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:31.640
That of your perspective sits very well with my perspective.

1034
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:35.560
So thank you. I I greatly appreciate it.

1035
01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:40.119
And if you want, come and join our Facebook group. Absolutely,

1036
01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:43.479
coalitions were critical thinking and big research.

1037
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:46.279
That's awesome. You know, that's awesome. Thank you.

1038
01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:49.800
You can find it pretty easily. It's got a weird name.

1039
01:09:52.359 --> 01:09:57.600
We'll be careful. There's a couple of fake uh pages

1040
01:09:57.640 --> 01:09:58.960
of trolls have made.

1041
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:03.319
Trying to of course, that happens all the time, you know.

1042
01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:07.479
And also, you know, check out Bluff Creek projects. That's

1043
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:11.039
what we've done, yeah, you know, between the film site

1044
01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:15.720
studies and the history of Bluff Creek in general and

1045
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:22.800
the the UH current and trail camera stuff he's done,

1046
01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:24.920
and you know, lately we've been doing even more like

1047
01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:28.439
with the with the with the drones and the light

1048
01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:32.560
r and stuff. You could see it. It was on

1049
01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:36.880
expedition Bigfoot of all places. But but Rowdy, our guy,

1050
01:10:37.640 --> 01:10:42.119
our drone guy are he's a film expert of our group.

1051
01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:47.239
He did the the work with them, take their light,

1052
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:51.560
our guy the very exact spot where we know now

1053
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:57.600
that I mean Patterson films the Bigfoot, and we we

1054
01:10:57.600 --> 01:11:02.800
were able to show him this data from our survey

1055
01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:09.079
map and current actual objects on the ground still to

1056
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:13.279
the state, and he determined that the subject in the

1057
01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:19.039
film was no more than six foot three in heights

1058
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:21.800
and so that argument, I mean, I think he has been

1059
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:25.720
shot down. We've been trying for years to get people

1060
01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:31.640
to stop saying it's seven foot or taller. Yeah, you know,

1061
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:35.359
Bigfoot doesn't have to be seven feet tall. You know

1062
01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:38.119
it could be just that's how tall that big Foot was.

1063
01:11:41.680 --> 01:11:47.560
Well, Corey Lekapoy from Canada. You know Canada, it's America's

1064
01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:54.399
top hat or America's largest national park, he commented too,

1065
01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:58.520
and giving you a double thumbs up. So thank you, Corey.

1066
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:00.000
We appreciate you being here.

1067
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.319
Brother Corey has been around for a long time in

1068
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:03.760
the cold.

1069
01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:04.640
He has.

1070
01:12:06.319 --> 01:12:08.920
That any of you people, even if you don't like

1071
01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:13.239
the skeptical attitude. Just go and look at it and

1072
01:12:13.319 --> 01:12:16.399
try to learn. I mean, I look at the believers

1073
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:18.600
sites with an open mind, so why can't they be

1074
01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:20.880
open minded about skepticism?

1075
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:28.199
Absolutely, absolutely, Sean, we don't hear you what's going on.

1076
01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:32.560
I had the damn mute button hit that's for you, mute,

1077
01:12:32.720 --> 01:12:36.119
but going on. So no, wonder you didn't hear any

1078
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:38.800
anything I said. I said, that's a great place to

1079
01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:41.760
put a stamp on it. Yep, for the night, Steve,

1080
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:44.479
thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate it, man, Thank.

1081
01:12:44.359 --> 01:12:46.560
You, Steven, Thank you appreciate it.

1082
01:12:47.079 --> 01:12:49.800
Well, yeah, thank you guys. And I definitely ever need

1083
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:51.760
someone on the show to give me a ring or whatever.

1084
01:12:52.199 --> 01:12:54.840
Absolutely we got. We still have more to touch on

1085
01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:59.119
about uh more topics. We barely touched the service tonight here, folks. Yeah,

1086
01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:03.359
but that's Monday nights. Sometimes an hour just ain't enough, folks.

1087
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:05.399
I'm Sean Forker, that's fans and has a bit Matt

1088
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:08.720
arn Or, Stephen Stroyford on behaps of James Baker and

1089
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:13.840
Henry May who aren't here. Give us those dulcet tones there.

1090
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:17.000
Vance you all be good or be good at it.

1091
01:13:17.279 --> 01:13:20.000
We'll see in two weeks. Folks, have great night.

1092
01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:33.279
Maybe you've been listening to Sasquatch Experience. Please rate interview

1093
01:13:33.279 --> 01:13:35.039
where this podcast has been consumed.

1094
01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:36.119
To share your.

1095
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:39.720
Experience, visit us on Facebook, our website, or email us

1096
01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:44.880
info at Sasquatchexperience dot com. Keep on squatching