Money Matters Episode 341-Public Radio, AI, and the Future of Audio Storytelling W/ Ernesto Aguilar

Money Matters Episode 341

[00:00:00] Discussions in this show should not be construed as specific recommendations or investment advice. Always consult your investment professional before making important investment decisions. Securities offered through registered representatives of Cambridge Investment Research, a broker, dealer member FINRA Civic Advisory Services.

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Welcome to Money Matters with Chris Henley, where we spotlight financial literacy issues in the Houston community and beyond. And now your host, Chris Hensley.

As a result, you have a lot of people who are turning to nonprofit media to get their news and public radio for many decades has been the place where people can hear longer form authentic conversations and stories that support education that are not all about the next advertising dollar, but they're really [00:01:00] there to support people's understanding of the world.

There's a great BBC study that. Reflects this in which it talks about, people oftentimes hear about the news via social media. So they might hear about what's happening in the Supreme Court, what's happening at the White House, what is happening at City Hall, and may catch that in social media, but they turn to public radio for the fuller story.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Public radio helped define audio storytelling, but AI is starting to redefine it. So what happens when decades of real world radio experience collide with new technology and get documented in a book? Today I'm joined by Ernesto Aguilar. Public radio professional, creative producer, and published author to talk about the past, the present, and the future of audio, how AI fits into the picture, and what aspiring creators need to understand before chasing the next trend.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Ernesto, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ernesto: So happy to do this.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: And, you [00:02:00] know, full disclosure here. So I'm gonna let everybody know that Ernesto the person who gave me my big break on at KPFT, uh, on the HD channel for Money Matters. Uh, that was over a decade ago. Um, and you know, you, you, you allowed me to get on that HD three channel and I can now raise my hand and.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Say that I'm one of the, uh, longest podcasts for, uh, financial planning retirement planners in this space now. So over, over a decade and just getting my feet wet back in those days. And, and, uh, thank you for that opportunity, Ernesto. And, um, well, let's, let's start with that because, um, you know, you spent years in public radio.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: What did that environment teach you about storytelling that still applies today?

Ernesto: I think one of the great challenges that we're experiencing right now is this gap between what people see and what people believe. AI has, uh, slopped up quite a bit of [00:03:00] content feeds. There is a lot of rage bait out there. There is a lot of content that I think is intended to elicit. Emotion in order to spark engagement, to keep people on pages.

Ernesto: Uh, you see this a lot in the news cycle, but part of the problem of that, or one of the, um, side effects of that is that people begin to turn off media because they don't trust it. They feel like, uh, they see through those kinds of things. They understand these people are just trying to get me to stay here so I can look at ads or they're trying to keep me here so advertisers can.

Ernesto: Feel like they have gotten the biggest audience as possible. And so distrust in the media has certainly increased. There's absolutely an issue with distrust in institutions as well, uh, for various reasons that has been going on for years and years and years now. Um, that is unfortunately coming to a big head.

Ernesto: So. As a result, you have a lot of people who are turning to nonprofit media to get their news and public radio for [00:04:00] many decades has been the place where people can hear longer form authentic conversations and stories that support education that are not all about the next advertising dollar, but they're really there to support people's understanding of the world.

Ernesto: It was a great BBC study that. Reflects this in which it talks about, people oftentimes hear about the news via social media, so they might hear about what's happening in the Supreme Court, what's happening at the White House, what is happening at City Hall, and may catch that in social media, but they turn to public radio for the Fuller story.

Ernesto: They want to be a more informed person in the world. They want to hear the analysis, not just what is the. 15 second, 32nd, one minute, hot take on TikTok, Instagram, et cetera. They really want a deep dive. People want to be informed, and so they turn to public radio for that, and they've been doing that consistently for many [00:05:00] years, and in spite of what people oftentimes say about radio going away.

Ernesto: People have been talking about this since the creation of the phonograph, and it has not gone away. It continues to be the go-to platform for going on 85 to 90% of Americans across demographics of age, race, and gender, and we continue to serve that purpose for many people in their lives.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. I love that. Now I'm gonna go back to KPFT. I know you're doing much. You're doing bigger, better things. You've moved on, but when, um, you know, you spent meaningful time in Houston at KPFT, what made that station in that market unique compared to other places that you've worked?

Ernesto: So I will say right now I am very, very fortunate to lead radio broadcasting at the number one news talk station in the country. Uh, this is my job to ensure that not only we continue to serve the audience's needs, uh, but we also continue to be competitive in the space. Uh, [00:06:00] we are constantly going batting back and forth with.

Ernesto: The Odyssey Station here, which is News Talk, and that is what we have to focus in on. Um, what makes KPFT and what made those years unique to me is the origin story for me. Um, I'm born and raised from Houston, uh, left Houston for. Industry worker around the country. But I have a special place in my heart for Houston because my mom is still there, my family is still there, and I grew, did not grow up though around public radio.

Ernesto: I happened to hear an accident. So I grew up in East Houston. I was born and raised there. Denver Harbor, uh, right off of Wayside near I tent. Um, if you've not been to Houston, Houston is the only major metropolitan city without zoning. And so as a result you'll have the down downtown area and just east of that you'll have.

Ernesto: As I've said, east Houston, but east of that you'll have oil refineries and east of that you'll have the ship channel. And they're all in fairly close [00:07:00] proximity. A lot of people that I grew up with and their parents worked the ship channel, worked the refineries, and my father, once he was discharged from the military, did military service.

Ernesto: Once he was discharged, he went and became a civil servant, became a mailman, and. Uh, public radio was not something that was part of my community that I was aware of. I was like a lot of kids from East Houston and like all of us as kids. Uh, you like what your friends like you do with what your friends do.

Ernesto: Um, you're into those kinds of things 'cause you want to fit in with your friends. However, when I was a teenager I also was probably like a lot of teenagers trying to learn new things and learning the world around me. Uh, as I mentioned, my dad was in the military. We grew up around a lot of military rigorous children.

Ernesto: There are three of us. I'm the first born and one of the bits of military rigor along with making up your bed every day. And sir and ma'am, people think I still do this 'cause I'm from Texas, but it is because of the military. And [00:08:00] one of those other bits of military rigor that I grew up around was something called lights out.

Ernesto: If you've not been in the military, you're not familiar with that term. It literally means what? It sounds like it's 9:00 PM the lights go out and you get up. Early because it's time to take on the next day. However, when I was 16, like everybody at 16, I wasn't tired at nine o'clock at night, but I found that I could listen to the radio very quietly and now wake up my parents.

Ernesto: And on a Monday night at 11:00 PM I discovered public radio. And it blew my 16-year-old mine apart to really see arts and culture and ideas and things that I didn't know existed outside of this little audio in East Houston. And it put me on the path to join my high school newspaper to join the Metro Metropolitan newspaper in Houston, the Chronicle, and the road that I am on today Public.

Ernesto: I owe that to public radio. [00:09:00] And one day, probably around 2003 ish, somebody said, we are trying to build a radio newsroom. You work at the Chronicle, you have the experience. Can you help us? At the time, I said, not for that pay. But then I realized something, this was KPFT and I owed them for what they had given me, and I took the job.

Ernesto: And for me, KPFT and really community radio as a whole because once I left KPFT, I went to work for the National Federation Community Broadcasters serving 200 community radio stations around the country. You recognize how much these stations mean to these communities. They can be big stations, small stations, they can be stations in rural Texas or rural Minnesota.

Ernesto: Cities in Kansas, I have been virtually all over the country visiting stations and serving their needs. [00:10:00] You see how much these organizations mean to the lifelines of their communities, not just as a space of news and information, but as a space of belonging where people can feel like they can find their voices, where people feel like they're presenting something for the next 16-year-old like I was to change their lives.

Ernesto: The ways that mine were changed, and I did that for many years and I value community radio very much to this day. Even though I work in a much larger space in public radio. I've got a fairly large staff and we have a staff here of just about 300 people, and we continue to do TV and radio coverage 24 7, and I am.

Ernesto: It is so grateful to work for an organization that is setting an example. Uh, but I have a lot of care for community Radio and care for KPFT and what it's done for the East Texas region of the state.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love it. [00:11:00] I love it, Ernest. So thank you for sharing that with us. I, in my head, I thought about my own self as a teenager listening to music on the, the local Funhouse show and, and how community radio is a different, uh, everybody has different ways to get involved and get, uh, but it, it's so much for cities that are lu lucky enough to have these community based radios and even ones that are on the outskirts who can pick up the signal.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Right. Um, let's pivot a bit because one of the things I really wanted to talk about is your. Book you, you launched a book. Um, and let me just go ahead and ask you, um, what motivated you to write your book and at what point did you realize these lessons need to be documented?

Ernesto: I've just completed one book. I have two more on the way, and, um, the, the book that I've just finished up is about how to launch a program from a community station or a podcast or some type of idea. To a public radio station, uh, [00:12:00] being at the number one news talk station in the country, I get a lot of pitches.

Ernesto: You get a lot of people that say, Hey, I'd love to be on KQED. How can I do that? Part of that really requires not even just the technical parts of it, because there are a lot of technical hurdles that a lot of people are frankly terrified of, but there is a larger piece that is about what this program is and what it does, that you would be surprised how many people cannot answer.

Ernesto: You'd be surprised if I can ask you about your program and ask a specific question. Who is served by this program? How does it fit with this schedule that you see? On this station that flabbergast people, they never really thought about that. And so I've realized it's would be really helpful and a good service to those who are interested in doing this.

Ernesto: 'cause I've been that person before. And [00:13:00] also I have had to hear the difficult feedback from program directors before to help load front load everybody with thinking about what they serve. How they do it, what their social media presence might be, what their podcast presence might might be, what distribution looks like, how they're going to get it to stations, how will it be structured around funding?

Ernesto: There are so many different components to a radio program, uh, served, serviced out to public radio stations that you need to be really aware of. You need to think very carefully about and be ready to jump in on. Uh. Because that's the expectation. If you come to me as a radio station, I expect that you have a lot of pretty firm ideas about how the clock, the broadcast clock works, uh, how fundraising works, how underwriting works, how all of the things that we as stations are expected to provide.

Ernesto: You will know because candidly, fresh [00:14:00] Air knows it. This American Life knows it. Wait, wait. Don't tell me all of the big radio programs that you're in, public radio. Know those things. And if you're going to come to the table saying, I wanna be beside those programs, we expect a certain level of professionalism and I wanna make sure if I can teach that to you and show you how to do it.

Ernesto: By all means, I'm happy to do it. My other books that I'm working on, uh, the next one's gonna be coming out on April 28th. It will be about public radio underwriting, because that's another thing I've, I had to teach quite a bit at NFCB and I look at a lot of underwriting copy that we are provided, and stations run to these landmines quite a bit.

Ernesto: The FCC has signaled that it will be. Focusing a lot more of enforcement around non-commercial broadcasters and underwriting. And so I wanna make sure to get some of those lessons out there. And my next one, which I expect is gonna be in the summer, is gonna be about how to understand and read radio ratings from Nielsen because it's.

Ernesto: Probably the third question I get most often, how you understand how a [00:15:00] station is situated in its market, how you look at the numbers. But even if you don't have those numbers, how can you begin to assess where you're at in the market so that you're able to set your underwriting rates, but you're also able to go for grants if you're a non-commercial broadcaster.

Ernesto: And you're not ready. Quite, uh, quite prepared to get the Nielsen numbers, but you'd like to at least get yourself a baseline so that you can begin to make that pitch. And those are the things that I'm working on, working on. Another one that has nothing to do with public radio with a publisher, but you'll get word of that probably in the next couple months.

Ernesto: We're still working through edits.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Nice. Nice. Wow. What a fantastic resource. I mean that what everything that you just mentioned, super important for people who are getting established or are hoping to be in that space. Um, you talked about things like funding, uh, you underwriting. Especially in a time like this where, where it is hard to get grants and, you know, a good grant writer is worth their weight in gold.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Right. uh, [00:16:00] and so, so having a resource like the book that you've, you've written, uh, for people getting into that space. I don't, I don't, I don't think I've heard of something like that before. So this is a really, really good thing. Ernesto, four

Ernesto: Gonna.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: are looking to get a copy of this book, how did they get a copy of.

Ernesto: Just go find it on Amazon. You can check my website, ernesto wa.com. I have a lot of my own writings and work up there, but they're also links to, uh, the currently released book. The book we're talking about is actually in a second edition. I've already done a revision to it, fairly extensive. I've also added in some elements around how to use AI to prompt around programming that you might find interesting, uh, among other considerations that you might wanna look at.

Ernesto: With that, and so that's available on Amazon or at my website, ernesto agi latte.com.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Absolutely. And for people who are driving or listening, don't, don't. You don't have to stop the car. We will have this in the podcast notes as well, and you beat me to the punch because I was absolutely gonna ask you about the AI [00:17:00] stuff here, because that is a space that you've kind of dived into. I've been seeing all of this stuff on LinkedIn, and you've got some stuff in the book in there as well. When you first started hearing about AI and audio production, what was your honest reaction?

Ernesto: I will tell you I was very excited. About the opportunities that AI brings to the world. So you have to, just to kind of take a step back, I was seeing the development of ai. I began to monitor it, probably say around 20 13, 20 14. It's when I began to notice it, and as it began to gain a bit of momentum into around 20.

Ernesto: 16, 20 17. The first thing I thought was how can this technology, we used to scale for smaller broadcasters, because at that time I was working for an FCB and the average size of a [00:18:00] lot of those organizations was eight. So you're probably looking at and the. The even bigger, uh, sizeable minority was three or less.

Ernesto: And so you think about how could this be used to do, do things like translation, social media posting, summarizing content. How could this be used to help an organization that's very small, feel bigger? And be able to provide service in a different kind of way, in a larger way for its community. Depending on the size of the community, it can be a complete game changer for a station that is aspiring to provide as much news information, culture ideas, to an area.

Ernesto: That might, in some cases go miles and miles and miles that a station wouldn't otherwise be able to do. And so I was very intrigued by it. Now you're seeing this technology jump into brand new spaces. Everything from audio transcribing to full on translations. You [00:19:00] have things like 11 labs that could take this podcast.

Ernesto: Use voice, voice clones of your voice and my voice, and do a version of it in Portuguese. That's very good. Or in Spanish also. Very good. And you could also have something like an opus clip that would take a number of pieces of this podcast, this program of you and I and formulate, pick the most 20 compelling clips on its own and make them for you to post on social media as you're promoting the podcast with full captioning.

Ernesto: That is more or less correct. I've not, I've seen a couple times where I think, oh, this. This captioning is not that, not as good as it could be, but it's pretty close. But you can go in and correct it. So there are ways that AI can be used on the, in the content space that I think are very fascinating.

Ernesto: Different organizations have different tolerance, I've noticed. Uh, so there is a big operational way that you can use it for things like in the case of a nonprofit broadcaster. [00:20:00] Donor prospecting. You could use it around grant making, grant writing, other items that could help the operations be streamlined to serve the bigger needs and free up, uh, some space for staff to do other items.

Ernesto: I think the big danger, however, is you have to be very, very careful about what that line is. Um, one thing I oftentimes hear people talk about AI use is, uh, we're going to. Be, give AI the boring tasks so you can focus in on other kinds of things. Yes, you can do that, and you have to be very mindful that the boring line doesn't start to slip into things that you should be doing.

Ernesto: I don't encourage people to have, for example, AI to write their emails. Email donor relationships. That's the first connection you have with people, especially if you're in the nonprofit, any nonprofit space. But if you're in a public broadcasting space, you wanna [00:21:00] have that one-to-one relationship with a donor.

Ernesto: You don't want to outsource those kinds of things to ai. So. Those kinds of things you to be very careful about letting that line slip. However, it can be very helpful in a number of other spaces, depending on the size and the needs of your organization. That and final piece on that, before you start using it, think about what problem you're trying to solve.

Ernesto: What are you trying to make easier and smoother for your organization so that you can better serve it? What questions do people have that AI might be able to help you answer, whether that's chat bot, whether that's another kind of tool that helps, uh, break down some of the pieces that you have. Maybe it's transcription.

Ernesto: There are other ways that you could think about it, but figure out the biggest problem that your audience has that you would like to solve to make sure that AI can help you to do that.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. I love that. And just kind of starting backwards there with the idea of what are you trying to solve, uh, getting that big picture perspective before you jump in feet first into ai. There, uh, you gave us some ideas [00:22:00] as far as e maybe some of the things that we don't delegate to, to ai, our emails, the things that have our heart and our spirit, and, and, and. People could tell sometimes when they're written that way. Right? But you mention resources like, uh, 11 Labs and Opus Clip. I literally use those for this podcast. So those are fantastic pieces of technology and you know, when we started before there were podcasts out there, right? Um, different thing altogether.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: And now here we are and AI's right in the, the mix there. So here's a

Ernesto: So.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: you, for someone starting today. With a a radio background, what foundational skills should they focus on before relying on AI tools?

Ernesto: So I think if one is interested, say, I'll just say, say you're a volunteer to radio station or you're interested in getting into the profession, um, I think that you probably want to think about a few things. One, does it align with what your, your schooling is? Does it [00:23:00] align? Where in broadcast would you like to work?

Ernesto: What would you like to do? Um. Once you understand what you would like to do and where your skillset lies, you can then begin to pursue, uh, professional networking opportunities. There are tons of organizations around the country that meet regionally. The National Association of Broadcasters has chapters, state chapters, as well as regional chapters.

Ernesto: All over the country, and they do, will do monthly lunches, they will do quarterly events, they'll be doing all kinds of events. You might be able to connect with people, um, you other skill. But beyond that, the skills you might want to begin to think about cultivating, uh, particularly if you're gonna want to get into the public radio space.

Ernesto: And depending on where your skills lie, are things like having a baseline understanding of development. Development being membership revenue. Pledge underwriting. The, the things that help empower the station to continue to serve the audience [00:24:00] because it brings in money to ensure that the staff can be supported and the whole operations can be supported.

Ernesto: Uh, next you wanna get an understanding of audience. Engagement. So this can be things like Google Analytics, Nielsen numbers, the the data that helps us to understand what the audience is interested in and what they're looking for. It can be as simple as looking regularly at Google Trends and knowing how it works, and knowing the ebbs and flows of how search tends to operate so that stations can identify where you.

Ernesto: Might be able to insert your knowledge. And so they begin to show that off and they talk about a little bit more. And then now jumping into radio it then it depends on where you're interested in going into. There are is always a big need for engineering jobs. There are always needs for reporters. There are always needs for it.

Ernesto: Um, there are some needs. Obviously for hosts and obviously [00:25:00] needs for people who are, uh, operators on air, but you also have to decide your own tolerance for where you wanna be. Some people have no compunction about moving around. I have colleagues that are in the public radio space that have moved to 25 different cities for different kinds of jobs, and some people are totally comfortable with that.

Ernesto: There are some people that couldn't dream of leaving whatever city they're in, and in that case, you're. Your options are gonna be very, very narrow. But I mean, if that's what you've gotta do, that's what you've gotta do. And you've gotta decide, um, maybe I just need to find a job, any job, and do it well within an organization.

Ernesto: Or you need to stay within a region, a state, for example, or a, uh, a county, a set of county regions. And you have to think about what that's gonna be for your life. But yeah, think about a few of those sets of skills, but also do that check in about your own. Personal preferences as to where you'll be, because that's, in many cases, gonna shape anything, um, shape [00:26:00] your whole trajectory more than anything.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. I love that My, my son, who is 15 now, I used to take him into KPFT when I was doing the show and he would be real, real quiet. Nobody knew he was there, but we would be in front of that board and I think that is. Gotten into his blood there because he is looking in different aspects of product, music, production, audio production, and, you know, broadcast.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: That is a piece of it. So I love that. I love that. Uh, Ernesto now you are very active on LinkedIn, so I do wanna let listeners know, uh, that, that in order to, to reach out to you, one of the things that they can do is reach out on LinkedIn, but you've written quite a bit of, um. Just prolific pieces on AI and broadcasting.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Is there one that you've written recently that you want to kind of point us down that road or share with listeners?

Ernesto: I've written a lot of pieces I'm very proud of, so I, but so I'll mention, you can find my, so I did a new, do a newsletter, two [00:27:00] newsletters actually. Uh, one on Latino audiences and diverse audiences in public media called Ogo. And then I do another one, uh, called AI and Public Media Futures. That is exactly what the.

Ernesto: Says, uh, it is about AI and the public media industry, uh, partially, and it was created partially because there is, there are a lot of questions in public media, people who are interested. There's definitely a leading edge of folks who are interested in AI and how it works. Uh, there is a resistant group within that, but there's a much larger group, and it's probably the largest group, frankly, that is already very busy.

Ernesto: And doesn't, isn't opposed necessarily, or isn't in favor necessarily, but they just don't have time to figure out these tools. This is really written for many of those individuals. Tell them, understand, here's some case studies and here's some uses of AI that might be beneficial to you. So for example, I've written every, on everything from.

Ernesto: Uh, some experiments that KQED has done around police accountability [00:28:00] in California. Um, I've done pieces on how to use different tools at your disposal, and then I've done other pieces on, here are some trends that are happening in AI and the public radio or commercial radios. Base that you want to be educated about.

Ernesto: So any of those may be good introductions. Also, last thing about your son, good. Shout out to college radio. A lot of college radio stations are still doing wonderful things. Not only introducing. Uh, students to the joy of radio and broadcast, but also helping develop leadership skills, collaboration skills, helping them with how to learn, how to coordinate events and, and all kinds of new talents that a student who is going to any particular college might be able to jump right in on.

Ernesto: And college radio is making that possible for them.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: We had rice radio here. I don't even know

Ernesto: Yeah.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: now, but we did and it was right down the

Ernesto: They, they have an LPFM license as a [00:29:00] matter of fact. So they lo they sold, they, they sold the broad, the, the larger FM broadcast license a number of years ago. But Rice University acquired a low power FM license. Think it's KBLT LP in at, in still Rice's campus, still in the student center. And they still take community volunteers, student volunteers of course, and people are welcome to sign up for shifts there.

Ernesto: And you can participate anytime if you're in Houston.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Might have to put a whisper in his ear. That's about five minutes away from us. So Ernesto, uh, thank you

Ernesto: There we go.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: on the show today. We are right here at the end of the show. What have I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share with listeners today?

Ernesto: I just wanna encourage everyone that when you hear public radio, please remember it is made possible. Literally by people like you giving a donation of whatever you think is possible and what is most acceptable for your own budget you're [00:30:00] making not only the music and arts and news and culture available for you 365 days a year, but.

Ernesto: Please, please, please remember that you're also making this accessible for the rest of the community. Your donation really does transform lives. I'm a testament to that. If it wasn't for people who came along and supported public radio and made it available to me. I'm not exactly sure where I would end up, but it was because somebody said, you know, I support this vision and I want to give what I can give to make it available on the airwaves in a big city like Houston, Texas.

Ernesto: So that. Some young person might have their lives changed. It might spark something new. So if you can give to public radio, I want to encourage you to do that. If you're listening around the United States of the world, you can go to something like Adopt Your Safe Station. Do adopt adopt a station.com. Do.

Ernesto: Check out that you can type in your [00:31:00] city of preference and it'll show you a whole list of public and community stations who might have lost money through the rescission of the corporation. Public broadcasting. You can make your own choices there or just support the station you know of in your community, but whatever it is, please make sure to support public radio.

Ernesto: It really genuinely needs people just like you who see it, who care for it, and who understand the need for information and news and arts and music. In our communities, they're here to make us proud of where we live. And if you're proud of where you live, please support public media.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love it. I love it. Ernesto, thank you so much for being on the show. Have a good rest of the day there.

Ernesto: Absolutely.