2025 NFL Power Rankings: Final 10 Teams Ranked, Debated, and Dissected

1:12 David Clarke: To rank all… David Clarke: well, it's about to take 3 weeks, we haven't actually started this last one yet. You know, the world could end. We might never actually get it done, guys. But we are power-ranking the NFL, the whole NFL, all 32 teams. David Clarke: We got all the way up to 10, we talked briefly about the Cincinnati Bengals at 10 at the end of last week's show. Last week, we had… Bobby and I had, Hollywood Ray Buchanan on, and this week… David Clarke: Mike Marc Angelo, triumphant return to the Power Ranking Show. Mike, welcome back! David Clarke: It's been since last season, since you've power ranked, either as a guest or filling in for Bob or myself. David Clarke: How you feeling about the NFL about to kick off, man? We're almost there. It's kind of our bread and butter here.

1:53 Mike Marcangelo: I know, I'm so happy, like, it feels like… I don't know, for some reason, like, it's probably because of the Celtics, but this summer just felt so much longer. David Clarke: that long. Mike Marcangelo: like, more dead in terms of sports, takes than usual, but I'm so happy that football's back. Robert Kelly: Officially two weeks. Two weeks from tomorrow. David Clarke: Yeah, it's exciting stuff, honestly. I'm really looking forward to, watching football on Sundays again. It's, equally as elating David Clarke: When it kicks back off, as it is depressing when it ends. David Clarke: Mike, we gave Ray a little bit of a chance to talk about his and your New England Patriots, obviously, since Bobby and I get to talk about our teams as much as we want here on this show, or in Bobby's case, don't want.

2:35 David Clarke: We… we… I wanted to only be fair and, see if you added… I don't know if you heard what we talked about with Ray. He, … I sort of set him up as, like, I devil's advocated in the negative. David Clarke: And, you know, sort of said, still a little worried about that wide receiving core. It's not that I don't think that, but it's also the feel-good factor that the Patriots had sort of leaving last season, despite not racking up a ton of wins, with Drake May clearly being pretty good, at the least, I would say. David Clarke: You did go and get an offensive line to put in front of him, so he's not gonna be running for his life, through the draft. David Clarke: the Bears did it in a little bit of a different way, so, you know, we could talk about that in comparison, if you want, of our two teams, but … how are you feeling? Just as an overall, how are you feeling optimistically? We don't want to talk about wins and losses here, because we do have… spoiler alert, everybody, we do have a prediction show coming next week, which we're always very excited about, all four of us do.

3:30 Mike Marcangelo: predict the records of the various teams in their conferences, and we use it as a little bit of a friendly competition. Mike lost for the first time because of me, last season, but I hope to do better. David Clarke: I don't actually know how true that is, but I can understand, you know, just by the laws of probability. … David Clarke: So how are you feeling overall about the Patriots season? Are you optimistic? Are you cautiously optimistic? Are you worried? Pessimistic? Where are you? Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, so I'm definitely cautiously optimistic. I think you'd have to be just based off of the additions that they made on the defense, and with the offensive line of Will Campbell. I think he's still got the little alligator arms, everybody keeps saying, so I'm a little… I don't know if he could be a left tackle.

4:10 Mike Marcangelo: for the duration of his career. But, one of the things that you talked to Ray about last week that I was mad that I couldn't be on the show to talk to you about was, you said, Patriot fans aren't expecting, like, Stephon Diggs to be the old Stephon Diggs, right? Like, that's not what we're thinking. David Clarke: Well, I was asking, it was more…. Mike Marcangelo: No, no stable. David Clarke: More of a question. Mike Marcangelo: And we're not. If he can be what he was on pace to be in Houston last year, which was something along the lines of, like, 70 catches, 900 yards, and 6 touchdowns. Mike Marcangelo: That's… that's the best that we've had since Edelman in 2019. Mike Marcangelo: And I think just having… he might not be a real number one in the NFL anymore, but he will attract your number one corner now. That should open up the lanes for guys like, you know, Pop Douglas, Kendrick Bourne, if he's still on the team, and others.

5:01 Mike Marcangelo: I share your excitement, … over the running back, Henderson. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, I really… but I…. David Clarke: I'm trying to tell you. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, but… Mike Marcangelo: Gun to head, I still would have taken Luther Burden 10 times out of 10 over him, because that really solves the need. David Clarke: Yeah, yeah, I mean… David Clarke: It's been a little weird from a Bears perspective, if you're curious at all about how, like, Luther's been panning out, because it's been a little strange. He was late, he came back… came into camp late because of an injury that he was carrying over from his last college season. David Clarke: So he was a little slow to go on…. Mike Marcangelo: I saw him get that injury, by the way. David Clarke: Oh, really? Yeah, he, he… you know, so he's a little slow to go. The ease-in of Johnson's system has sort of made it so that, like, we're not really getting any actual previews of what the offense is gonna look like, it seems.

5:56 David Clarke: other than, like, quick progressions and the ball leaving Caleb's hands quickly, what I will say is, he blocks… David Clarke: like a fucking Mack truck. The few, like, highlight plays, he's had some decent catches in the preseason and in camp, … but he, man, he just runs it, guys. Like, he really is absolutely out there blocking like a lineman. David Clarke: Obviously, you get a little bit of an… like, he plays like he's 5'10", and he's not. He's 6'2", and I really like and respect that about him. He's, like, a little bit of a spitfire. David Clarke: That being said, we have fucking wide receivers coming out of our goddamn eyes right now. I really wish you and I could, like, sit down and, like, have the two teams, chat. We have OZ, who we got from, Washington last year, who they loved him over there.

6:42 David Clarke: He capped off a great preseason touchdown drive on the first drive of the season for the Bears. David Clarke: We have Tyler Scott, who's, like, a pretty good plug-and-play, like, gadget guy. We have Luther Burden, we have DJ Moore, we have Roma Dunze. It seems like Colston Loveland is a wide receiver, basically. We have Cole Komet. So… David Clarke: I would love if we had, like, a little bit more of a registered backfield, that we, you know, like, we have DeAndre Swift, but… and every down guy, you know? I think he's probably gonna use DeAndre Swift correctly this year, even though we haven't seen any of him in camp at all, really anything. I don't know what the deal is there. David Clarke: But… David Clarke: Yeah, I mean, I love having Luther Burden, and I love that he clearly is gonna be the kind of wide receiver I love to watch. Probably, eventually, a DJ Moore replacement is the thinking, you know, like, and the timing there is great. What I will say, though, is I would love… I would take Ramondre from you guys. If this was fantasy, I would take Ramondre from you guys.

7:40 David Clarke: if we could do a little bit of a deal, if you wanted, like, a little bit of wide receiver help, it seems like we could help each other out here. … David Clarke: Yeah, I am really jealous of Trey Anderson, though. I knew he was gonna be, like, that dude, just based on my draft research and who I wanted the Bears to get. Where I thought he would fall to fall is a little bit of an extreme, but you know what I mean? Like, the way that, … David Clarke: The way that the draft class was, like, sort of going, he was never gonna be the worst… the first, running back picked. David Clarke: I kind of figured we could get them early in the second, and we were one pick away. You guys scooped them from us just one… one pick before our… David Clarke: Yeah, yeah, you guys went first. Mike Marcangelo: It was one package. David Clarke: Yeah, you guys went first, you grabbed him, so we took Burden, which I think was a best available player move, because I kind of think we were gonna draft Trite, but… David Clarke: I don't know, I mean, I guess we were left… it's like a good compromise, you know? Like, a great deal is when both part… neither party walks away happy, right? So, like, we didn't get exactly what we wanted, the two of us, but we both seem to get really good, competent players that are hopefully gonna have impacts on our team for a long time.

8:44 Mike Marcangelo: And I… coming out of the last preseason game for the Patriots, like, obviously, Henderson was a great standout, but, Chisholm, the wide receiver, like, if he could be that, and if that is something doable. Mike Marcangelo: then I'm okay. Like, he seemed a little bit like a hybrid between Amendola and maybe a little bit of Edelman. That's high praise, but, like, again. David Clarke: It could be ceiling for one preseason performance, but yeah, sure. Mike Marcangelo: That's…. David Clarke: He's basically Amendola and Edelman combined, I know, I watched him in the…. Mike Marcangelo: That's what… I mean, so this is why I get so upset with myself about the preseason, because then I start listening to other podcasts, and even Edelman was like, he was more like me than he was Amendola. If he could do that, like, they're gonna be set up for success. And I'm like, fuck.

9:33 Mike Marcangelo: could he be that? You know? But we'll see. This is why I love and hate criticism. David Clarke: So what would be… what would be the ceiling, and I don't mean wins and losses, I just mean, like, circumstance, like, you know, the sort of narrative, the movie that plays out for the Patriots' 25-26 season. What would be… what would be your ceiling, and what would be, like, your biggest worry? Mike Marcangelo: That you're vying for a playoff spot in December, so you're playing meaningful football again for the first time in, like, 3 years. …. David Clarke: I don't know. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, and the biggest word…. David Clarke: Oh, three whole years? Must have been tough. Mike Marcangelo: Just remember, two of those seasons, you had the quote-unquote, the greatest head coach of all time. Now, I would say the biggest worry would be that.

10:14 David Clarke: Not quote-unquote, like, he is the greatest head coach of all time. Mike Marcangelo: That the line… isn't… Mike Marcangelo: good, and Will Campbell doesn't… it cannot be a left tackle. I think he… I think he's got that dog in him. I think he wants to be, like, he's gritty, for sure, but, … Mike Marcangelo: if you… if you took… if you spent your, you know, your third overall pick on a guy that can't actually play the position the way that you need him to, then you're just gonna set up that quarterback, for… for more failure. And I just want to be the person to point out, I'm a Patriot fan, I really like Drake May. Mike Marcangelo: He's 2 and 9. Mike Marcangelo: Like, and he makes really bad mistakes. Mike Marcangelo: highlighted again in that preseason… in that preseason game, when all I needed to do was just… just slide, just go down, but he fumbles, or he'll throw errant passes. So I want to get that out of the way, too. But yeah, I say ceiling, you're playing for a wildcard spot, for your 4-13 again.

11:09 David Clarke: Yeah, I mean… David Clarke: I just think… I just think it's not gonna… I know that why your brain is going to, like, Will Campbell left tackle, what's he gonna do for Drake May? And I understand how important the quarterback position is in football, like, don't yell at me here, but… David Clarke: you got Mike Vrabel, you know? Like, what that offense is gonna look like is actually gonna be a lot more predicated on how he can run block Will Campbell, and what he can do for… go ahead, Bob. Robert Kelly: Remember how he won with Ryan Tannehill as his quarterback? Robert Kelly: So…. Mike Marcangelo: And Derrick Henry has his running back. David Clarke: Yeah, I mean, he doesn't have a Derrick Henry, obviously. He doesn't have a Derrick Henry, but my point is more… it's not, oh, it's gonna look like it looked in Tennessee, because, you know, the best running back in the NFL was playing for Tennessee at the time. But, I think… David Clarke: I was making this point about Mike McDaniel. Vrabel really smacks of the coach that's gonna really come into his own as a coach in his second stint somewhere, because… David Clarke: all of the things that I… like, I don't know if you guys remember this, because it was, like, 9 major arguments ago in our overall relationship, but I actually used to shit on the Titans when we first started this podcast, because I was like, it's not a tenable playoff structure. I just don't think that you can win meaningful playoff games repeatedly with David Clarke: a, frankly, overworked Derrick Henry every time you get to the first round of the playoffs, and make no mistake, Vrabel's teams were playing right away in the playoffs, each one of those years, so it's… it's for obvious divisional reasons. So, the…

12:39 David Clarke: it's… this isn't necessarily a criticism of Rabel overall, because I do think that the things that… David Clarke: He… yes, he doesn't have Derrick Henry, I get that, but the things that he needed to fix… David Clarke: are there to be fixed, and also, he… he was working with what he had in Tennessee. You know, I mean, he was using the weapons he was given. David Clarke: This team feels a little bit more like it's gonna be driven by his identity. It's gonna be more of a Rabel team right off the bat. So, in that sort of Dan Campbell school of rah-rah football, identity-building, culture-building football. David Clarke: at the end of the day, that's how the Patriots have always played, right? I mean, it might have been a little bit more… David Clarke: board meeting, you know, down the middle, do your job, this is our whole thing, but it was still a philosophy, right? It was still a way to play football. It was still a culture-based… it was a culture based on winning, but it was a culture-based team.

13:32 David Clarke: And I think that, for obvious reasons, you know, Mike Vrabel being an ex… David Clarke: legend, I would say. He's probably a legend. He's an ex-player that played there. He's a big deal for the New England Patriots as a man within that organization already. David Clarke: That gravitas aside, I think that just the idea of him coming into his second year as a head coach, or his second stint, I'm sorry, as a head coach, is… David Clarke: it's meat and potatoes for a guy like that, because I think that he's gonna improve on the things that he didn't do that well. Up to and including basing his entire identity on the run. David Clarke: That being said, I think you're one, you're gonna run the football a shitload. I think you're gonna run it a shitload while Drake May, like, comes into his zone, and while your offensive line gets out of their short pants. So, I think… David Clarke: just for this season, my opinion on it would be, just to get it on record, because if it happens, then I can be like, I was right, and if it doesn't, I'll say nothing. But you may bring it up. I think you're gonna run the ball a lot, and I think that that… David Clarke: is gonna show… David Clarke: you know, you're gonna then see the things that you want to see out of your Patriots team, so it's not gonna be as much about wins and losses as it is about, okay, this is something we can build from, because… David Clarke: You and Ray have this argument all the time, like, oh, well, what year of the rebuild is it? It's year one. It's year one of the rebuild, in my opinion. 100%.

14:57 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. David Clarke: when it's, Mike Vrabel. I get it. I understand, like, where everybody's coming from with this whole, like, well, we've been rebuilding for X… and it's like, yeah, well, not with Mayo as your head coach. So, … David Clarke: Bobby, same question to you. If you were a Patriots fan, what would be your biggest worry? What is the ceiling for that Pats team? And also, which one do you rate higher, between Henderson and Luther Byrd? Which one would you have wanted? Robert Kelly: No, yeah. Robert Kelly: I would pay trivia on Henderson, because I think you can actually rely on him on offense. I think you can build an offense around him. … Robert Kelly: Because I really think he's a bell cow running back, he was that a… Robert Kelly: Ohio State, and they won a championship. So I picked Travion Henderson overburdened, I think. … Robert Kelly: The ceiling for the pass this year, as Mike said, it all relies on an offensive line. If Drake May gets protected, and he has a wide receiver 1 now, or I guess a 1A in digs.

15:50 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. Robert Kelly: I think… Robert Kelly: the ceiling is high for them. I think they could… 9 wins? 10 wins? I mean, I know we're trying to stay away from win totals, but, I would say 9 or 10… 9 or 10 wins in the playoffs is the ceiling for them, in my opinion. David Clarke: Bob! Mike Marcangelo: But also, the thing that concerns me about the… Does that… Mike Marcangelo: He is, like, he's everything that you want him to be, but he's never been a 3-down running back. Mike Marcangelo: He isn't. Mike Marcangelo: Till now! Yeah, so, like, they're always gonna need to have another compliment, which is fine. If that's what Ramondre's gonna be, great. David Clarke: I mean, that opens up Ramondre so much. I think he's exactly the kind of running back that needs to touch the ball significantly less, because that… David Clarke: … David Clarke: It's what I always wanted from the Steelers' backfield, I don't know how much of them you watched over the past couple years, but I always wanted Najee to be the second choice.

16:42 David Clarke: And then, eventually, I wanted him to be the non-choice, at all, because he stinks. But the way that they had that, backfield set up, I really just wish they had, like, flipped, David Clarke: flip touches, and they just… I thought Arthur Smith was gonna do it, and they just didn't. I think it's obvious, just because of the massive talent disparity, or even just stock value disparity between Henderson and Ramondre, that, you know, we know who's gonna get the most touches. That being said. David Clarke: I don't know, what is Henderson's ceiling as a third down running back in a first-year offensive system? Like, I don't think they're gonna, like, hang him out to dry to be, like, doing gadget shit all the time on third down. David Clarke: Drake May is gonna still have to throw the ball in, like, third and medium and third and long situations. Ramondre can come in there on first and second down, he can get in there for blocking, he can get in there for decoys. It's just… it's just a healthier situation, I think, in your backfield overall, despite.

17:33 Mike Marcangelo: Yep. David Clarke: Like, if you leave aside the idea that, yeah, obviously your talent level in your backfield's gone up, I just think the two kinds of running backs you now have complement each other really well, and I think they complement Vrabel's system. So I would actually honestly be optimistic. I was just kind of trying to fuck with Ray a little bit to get a rise out of him last week, but… David Clarke: Yeah, I'd probably be optimistic, except for that wide receiver core, man. I don't know, like… David Clarke: I hope that you're game-managing a lot, and you're not, like, trying to come from behind to win, where you need people to make, like, big plays. I think that I would be a little bit worried about. I hope you can, like, win a lot of 17-14s. That would be my wish for you, because I think that's what it, like, looks like going into this Patriots season.

18:14 Robert Kelly: Well, Josh is back in town, so you know you're gonna see a lot of bubble screens, and a lot of short passing game out of him. David Clarke: I mean, do you mind him as an offensive coordinator? Robert Kelly: I don't. Mike Marcangelo: Which is one of. Robert Kelly: As an OC, he's a good… he's a good OC. Because, like, also, last time… last time he was an OC, like, was that the worst? David Clarke: for the Patriots, was that the worst personnel he ever was the offensive coordinator with? Like, I think that…. Mike Marcangelo: And they went… and they went 10-7. David Clarke: Yeah. Mike Marcangelo: made a playoff Oh, yeah. Robert Kelly: with Mac, right? David Clarke: Yeah, so it's like, you know, to me, I'm like, hmm, that… that to me is, like, a really good sign for your offense. And I also think he's still pretty modern in his thinking. I mean, I know long gone are the days where McDaniels was the foremost offensive mind in the NFL, especially considering, like.

18:59 David Clarke: the crop of offensive coaches we've been given over the past decade, right? But I still think there's a lot to be done with a Josh McDaniels offense. I don't think it's outdated or outmoded by any stretch, so… I wouldn't be super upset about having him. I know he can be frustrating, and I don't trust Pfizer coaches, but that's mainly a head coach rule. David Clarke: If you wear a visor as a head coach, I defy you to find me a successful advisor coach. David Clarke: I defy you. Mike Marcangelo: We've tried this before, we couldn't. David Clarke: Yeah, it's… if you were an advisor, that's it. You've consigned your coaching career to the depths of hell. Alright, well, we also talked, briefly, Mike, I think this will start with our little overlap here, … David Clarke: We talked briefly about the Green Bay Packers, because they were number 10, and I fucking hate them. And we had this really fun conversation at the end of the show where, I told Ray that Jordan Love was not… David Clarke: he was about the 15th best QB in the league. I was like, I think I can name 14 guys better than him. We came… we got 10 solid, like, unimpeachable QBs that are better than Jordan Love, and then we got, like, a few maybes. Is that a correct assumption, or assessment of the situation, Bobby? We got a few, like, debatables, like, here and there. And quite frankly.

20:08 Robert Kelly: Yeah, there was a few maybes, but yeah, we got to at least 10, I think. David Clarke: Yeah, quite frankly, honestly, I didn't even bring up Caleb Williams in the Jordan Love debate, but I could have said, not that I did, and not that I'm saying it now, but I could have said the last time they played, Caleb won. David Clarke: And that was in a dumpster fire of an offensive situation, and it was an important game for the Packers to win for their season, so it wasn't as if there was nothing to play for. And, he's looked pretty fucking foxy in the preseason, I have to say, and I think he has a… he has a real coach now. David Clarke: So, we'll see. If I believe Caleb Williams is having a better year than Jordan Love by, like, week one and a half, I will immediately not shut the fuck up about it. And I'm… I don't think that's what David Clarke: too terribly unrealistic. Like, if you were ranking the QBs, like, where would you put Williams right now? Because he's such an unknown, you'd put him in the middle of the pack, right? He'd be in the 15 to 17 range, I assume. Like, I don't know if it'd be, like, that much higher or that much lower for either of you. I don't… David Clarke: Well, I mean, you're giving me a look, would it be?

21:10 Mike Marcangelo: Well, he would definitely be behind Jordan Love. Like, so… because…. David Clarke: I guess. Mike Marcangelo: Just based on…. David Clarke: Yeah, but in a what, like, which one would you rather have in your franchise question, if you frame the question that way? Are you still picking. Mike Marcangelo: I would rather have Jordan Love with the off… with the offensive situation that Caleb Williams has in Chicago than having Caleb Williams dead. David Clarke: Hmm… I don't agree. Bobby? Mike Marcangelo: You would… you would too. Robert Kelly: I would rather have. David Clarke: God, no. Robert Kelly: I would rather have the perspective of Jordan Love's 2025 season than Caleb Williams. Mike Marcangelo: For sure. Robert Kelly: I just think the projections for 2025 are a little bit higher than what Caleb's gonna do. The ceiling is higher. Overall, for career, or, like, franchise-wise, it's Caleb, for sure.

21:59 David Clarke: Yeah, I mean, I… not for nothing, but… David Clarke: One guy… don't look this up, I just want you to guess which one's which. One guy had 25 touchdowns and 11 picks. David Clarke: And 3,389 yards. One guy had 20 touchdowns and 6 picks, and 3,541 yards. Which one would you think is which? David Clarke: Caleb was the second one. Yeah. David Clarke: So he threw for more yards, and 5 less picks. David Clarke: And again, a fucking horrible offensive situation. Like, a really terrible coaching situation, coach fired halfway through the lead. Mike Marcangelo: Personnel-wise, it's a better offensive situation than it was in Green Bay. David Clarke: Now….

22:39 Mike Marcangelo: Like, now…. Robert Kelly: Agreed. David Clarke: Last year, he was the most safe quarterback in NFL history, Caleb Williams, and he still had comparable numbers to Jordan Love. Like, I mean, honestly, I don't even think this is that big of an argument from my perspective. Robert Kelly: The wide receiver… the wide rece… what he was throwing to in Green Bay was a lot less than what he had. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, it's… you can't compare those two things. David Clarke: I don't know, I mean, like, DJ Moo David Clarke: DJ Moore was, like, walking off the fucking league. He was, like, watching off the fucking… walking off the field. DJ Moore was just walking off the fucking field at, like, halfway through, like, shitty plays. Fucking Shane Waldron was, like, the worst offensive coordinator in the league last year. Caleb Williams got sacked more than any other quarterback ever in a single season, and he still put those numbers up, like, I… David Clarke: If it's a… which one would you rather have? I… David Clarke: I know which one I'm picking, and yeah, I get I'm biased, but like… David Clarke: I don't know. Shouldn't his numbers be way better, the way you guys are talking about it? Shouldn't Jordan Love's numbers be way higher than… than 5 more touchdowns and 5 more picks?

23:37 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, I agree. If Jordan Love had the exact same wide receivers to throw to, his numbers would have been higher. David Clarke: That's… I mean, if he had the same offensive line, I don't know if they would have been. David Clarke: To be honest. I think he would have been… I think he would have been in the fuckin'… David Clarke: … physio room by week 3, if he had Caleb Williams' offensive line. I don't think he's… I don't think he's durable enough to have an offensive line that bent on getting him killed. David Clarke: But yeah, I mean, listen, not every single one of those sacks were the Lions' fault. A significant number of them were. Caleb is a rookie QB, like, there was games where he really stunk the place out, for sure. He also made, like, a lot of big, big boy throws, and I really think in an offense.

24:19 Mike Marcangelo: Wasn't it the… wasn't it the season opener against Jacksonville when he threw for, like, 97 yards? David Clarke: Our season opener, our season opener was against Tennessee, I think, and we won that game. Yeah, Jacksonville, David Clarke: Yeah. Appreciate it, yeah. Mike Marcangelo: He threw for, like, 97 yards. David Clarke: Yeah, there was a… there was a bad, offensive game in there, or one or two, but Matt Uberflus was the coach, and Shane Waldron was the fucking offensive coordinator, and it was, again, the worst offensive line in the NFL. And I just think you can understand something like that, right? Considering you didn't even want… you didn't even want Drake May to see the field. David Clarke: For most of the year last year, because you thought he was gonna get absolutely axe-murdered out there. So, I'm just saying, it's… like, the way… the tenor in which you guys are talking about it, you sound very sure, and I… I am… I know I'm… David Clarke: I'm trying so fucking hard not to, like, go intense on the bears and be, like, really, really optimistic, because it's, like, hurt me so many times.

25:14 David Clarke: But it's hard for me to not, like, really try to put my money where my mouth is on this Jordan Love v. Caleb Williams thing, because I already can tell I'm not gonna shut up about it. Like, I already can tell, unless it goes, like, really badly in my direction, in which case I'll try to pretend this conversation never happened, but the… David Clarke: it, like, I think I'm gonna be on it. Like, on a week-to-week basis, I think that this is the quarterback comp that I, wanna be making for the year, so I'm glad we had this discussion. David Clarke: You seem… you seem really sure. Gone are the days where we both hated the Packers QB. I guess you were doing it for real analytical reasons, and I was doing it because fuck the Packers. That makes sense. Mike Marcangelo: Well, and Aaron Rodgers. David Clarke: Yeah, we both hate the…. Mike Marcangelo: It's been a lot. David Clarke: Steelers QB now, so that'll be a fun through line as the years go on. Bobby, I, gone are the days that you and I were loving the Bears QB, when it was Justin Fields. You're obviously fucking out on Caleb Williams, so you're dead to me.

26:09 David Clarke: That's completely fine. That's just gonna be the tone of this, of this year's power rankings. I lost a lot of friends along the way. That's war, though. That's war, guys. Robert Kelly: Listen, I gave… I gave you guys a very generous 15th ranking coming into this year, ahead of… ahead of some very quality teams, to be. David Clarke: Yeah, and then you put the Packers at 10, you cunt. David Clarke: It took 5 places for me to realize… To it all turned sour. I mean, I, you know, the whole Jordan Love thing started because I was just talking shit about the Packers in general. I was like, I think you could put the Broncos, the Chargers, or the Vikings above them. David Clarke: For any multitude of reasons on the power rankings, if it were me. The Vikings, in the fact that they always have a better record than the Packers over the last 5 years, like, literally every single time, this would be the first time in, what, like, a decade plus? The Broncos, for obvious reasons, as much as I don't like Sean Payton, being down on them didn't work out for me last year, so… David Clarke: the Bo Nix of it all, we'll, like, see how it goes. People are pretty high on them. And then the Chargers, it's year two Harbaugh, you know? And I feel like there's been a collective beginning of Justin Herbert from both me and you, Bob, and yet you stabbed him in the heart, and poured Jordan Love and the fucking Green Bay Packers over him. I mean, it was devastating when I read it at first. I couldn't wait to get there.

27:24 David Clarke: We'll see how it goes. Robert Kelly: I just think, last year they went 11-6 with literally one of the worst wide receiver rooms I've ever seen in my life. And they added Matthew Golden. They added Matthew Golden, who I think is gonna be one of the better wide receiver rookies in the league this year. I'm really high on him. I'm definitely picking him in my Dynasty League, no doubt about that. But… Robert Kelly: I just… I see a lot of high things coming out of the Packers this year. I think Halfley is gonna improve that. David Clarke: I see a lot of high things coming out, too. Falutin, as usual, they're gonna be high falutin, they're gonna be high on their own supply. David Clarke: They're gonna be high on my list of enemies. I see a lot of high things coming out as well, my friend. I have to be high to talk about them, because otherwise I'm just, in a rage. Sorry, I interrupted your flow. Go ahead.

28:11 Robert Kelly: the only downside of the defense is to lose Jair Alexander out of the secondary, which is gonna be tough to replace. But I think Halfley's a great coordinator. I think he has the bones to do it. So, I just see them a little higher than the teams above them on the list because of what they did last year, and the improvements they made this… coming into the year. David Clarke: Fine. David Clarke: Mike, do you think it's fine that they're at 10? David Clarke: Any of those 3 teams I named, would you put them above them? Mike Marcangelo: I would… no, I think… I think the Packers are actually right where they're supposed to be. David Clarke: Oh my god, fuck you guys. David Clarke: This is gonna be a long fulfilling. Mike Marcangelo: Just to be clear, I didn't say I thought the bears were where they're supposed to be. You didn't ask me about that.

28:52 David Clarke: You think they should have been, lower ranked, higher, higher up on the power rankings, I assume? Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, yeah, I would have put them somewhere along the lines of, like, yeah, 12. I would take the Bears over… Mike Marcangelo: Over Denver, over Minnesota, over Houston. David Clarke: Oh, like, oh, you would have them… you would have them better than those teams. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. David Clarke: Wow, that's interesting. Now, I… that almost freaks me out a little bit, I don't like that. Let's… let's all just, like, tamp down expectations. I… I almost was a little freaked out on, like… The thing is, right, is, like. Mike Marcangelo: So, just to be clear, that was the definition of a lose-lose for me, right? Robert Kelly: No matter what easily. Mike Marcangelo: Because you were like, oh, you had them ranked, like, closer to 20? Yeah, great, fuck them. And then I'm like, no, actually, I think they're gonna be better. Oh, that sucks, that scares me. Just don't say that.

29:37 David Clarke: Yeah, what you're hearing is called a trauma response. It's really not, your fault. It's just… it's just… they just haven't been legitimately good since 2012. David Clarke: And even then, they fucking came up short. So, you know, Jay Cutler in the NFC Championship. Mike Marcangelo: … Was that 2012? I thought that was 2010. David Clarke: 2010, yeah, 2010. But then, that team was still around. It got blown up in 2012. So, can you guys hear my dog? Is that obnoxious? Should I tell her to shut up? Mike Marcangelo: I don't know if that will work, but you do what you need to do. David Clarke: Talk amongst yourselves for a second.

30:18 Mike Marcangelo: I just… I… I don't understand the hate… Mike Marcangelo: Well, I… minus the fact that it's a… it's a Packer quarterback, but, like, Bobby, you and I should be on the same page here with, with… Mike Marcangelo: with Jordan Love. I think… Mike Marcangelo: If you give him Roma Doomsday instead of Christian Watson or Romeo Dobbs, who is healthy every other game. Mike Marcangelo: He probably throws 4,000 yards last year. Robert Kelly: Agreed, agree. Plus, I think he finally has an offensive line that's gonna keep him healthy this year, and if, Jordan Love healthy for 16 games, or 17 games now, I think it's a dangerous, dangerous drug and love. So I agree, man. Plus.

31:00 Mike Marcangelo: No, you hated him after what he did to the Cowboys two years ago. Like, you were down on him all last year. You're like, he's silly, it sucks, like, the shine has worn off. I think that's a direct quote in one of our postseason power rankings. You were like, yeah, the shine's really worn off. David Clarke: Yeah, I really like that better, I don't know what the fuck. Mike Marcangelo: what happened? You really, like, you really turned it off, like your Jordan Love-Hate. I thought we were on the same side. David Clarke: Now you're like, give him Roman Dunze, he's a Super Bowl champion. David Clarke: Like, I feel like you guys have been body-snatched by Packers fans. Mike Marcangelo: No. David Clarke: Fine. David Clarke: Bobby's flip-flopped.

31:40 David Clarke: It's official. Mike Marcangelo: That's all, yes. David Clarke: Alright. David Clarke: It's me versus you guys. Robert Kelly: It's early, it's early. I have a lot of… I have a lot of time to flip-flop for the season, so don't worry. David Clarke: It happens. It's sort of… I mean, wait, what are we, fucking fortune tellers? Welcome to the Missing the Point podcast, where we guess at shit, and hope for a right. Not to bring the whole house of cards down on sports podcasting, guys. David Clarke: Yeah, listen, it's… I like the idea that it's gonna be me versus you guys, because we have yet to talk about the Pittsburgh Steelers, and … wait, did we talk about the Pittsburgh Steelers? Oh, yeah, you had them at 16, ridiculously. … David Clarke: Do you want to talk about your… what's going to be your favorite narrative coming into the season before we, start to rip through these, remaining teams? Because we still actually haven't gotten any teams we haven't talked about yet, but….

32:28 Mike Marcangelo: I just wanna… I just wanna point out that I wish this into existence all off-season. Mike Marcangelo: this, and I know a different sport, and the Missoula Contract Ascension, I said, would happen, and you're like, fuck you, Mike, these things are gonna happen. Mike Marcangelo: I can't wait to see the tightrope that you have to fucking walk. Mike Marcangelo: being in a house with a dedicated, die-hard Steeler fan you happen to be married to. Mike Marcangelo: And you can't openly root against them, but with every fiber of your being, you hate their quarterback. Mike Marcangelo: You just do. David Clarke: I think I should take. Robert Kelly: I mean, that's… Robert Kelly: I was just saying, that's why I flip-flopped on the Packers a little bit, too, because now we can't disagree on the Steelers like we always did, because we're gonna agree on them all year, because I think the Steelers aren't gonna be great. So I… we have to… for content purposes, we gotta butt heads somehow.

33:16 David Clarke: It's really hard, it's really hard, because I don't know how I'm gonna be. Like, I have a really educated guess as to, like, how much I hate Aaron Rodgers, but I think I love my wife more than I hate Aaron Rodgers, but, like, that honestly remains to be seen. Like, there's a chance it goes. David Clarke: There's a chance it goes tits up for me. I should definitely take some, like, selfie videos of, like, that Leah doesn't know I'm taking of, like… David Clarke: like, situational football, like, when I read situational football happening on the field for the Pittsburgh Steelers, where she's locked in and she's, like, ready to, like, watch it, and I want to see if we can maybe, like, Zebruder tape my actual authentic feelings, because I'm gonna need your guys' help on this, because I'm obviously going to be doing mental flip-flops the entire time. David Clarke: But I want to be able to Zabruder tape the moment David Clarke: they do something good, and the moment they do something bad. And if it's Rodgers, am I gonna be delighted, right? Like, can I just cheer for their defense? Is that…?

34:07 David Clarke: No, okay. So I don't know, I don't know what's gonna happen. Honestly, it is an interesting through-line. Bobby seems to think that I'm gonna just be down on them, because I hate Aaron Rodgers so much. Mike Marcangelo: I don't think that. I think… I think he's gonna find himself at, like I said, at week 10, when they're 7-2, or 8-2, and Rodgers hasn't, like, he's doing all the right things in the press conferences, you're gonna say, well, maybe, like, maybe Tomlin figured him out, and maybe this is gonna be a good… a good situation for him. David Clarke: I find myself, like, defending Mike Tomlin last… because, like, Ray did his annual, Mike Tomlin sucks, like, he's not even good. He did his annual, like, Mike Tomlin's gonna come under 500 thing, and I was like, that's ridiculous. He was like, he's mediocre. I was like, that's fucking absurd. So, like, I… I wanna think… I want… I mean, it's not… it's hard, though, because I want to say that's just what I really think.

34:55 David Clarke: So… I don't think Tomlin's mediocre, like, I never have, but, like, I don't know, like, he's intrinsic…. Mike Marcangelo: Now, that take is gonna be tied to the success of Aaron Rodgers, and that is… I just can't wait for it. David Clarke: I heard someone say, if anyone can… David Clarke: get Aaron Rodgers to play to the best of his ability. David Clarke: it's Mike Tomlin, and I was like, based on Mike Tomlin's historic work with quarterbacks, like, are you basing that on the fucking Kenny Pickett season, or like, what are we, like, what are we talking about here? Fucking, like, Washed Ben? Because, like, the Washed Ben years were not… they were bad. They were, like, really hard to watch, so… David Clarke: I don't know, it's… I wouldn't call them a quarterback guru by any stretch of the imagination. I think they're gonna have an above 500 season.

35:41 David Clarke: I would love it if, Watt doesn't turn off the lights, like, with 6 games to go. Like, if he could actually still rush the QB, that'd be good. I think that… I think that the move for shipping on, Minka to actually shore up the defensive backs was a smart one. That was actually a huge problem watching them last year, but I… I mean, honestly, a big part of it was, yeah, like, I obviously really like… David Clarke: my wife, and I want her to be happy, but I… I like defenses. Like, I think that's at least on the record. Like, do you remember when Bobby had the Dan Quinn Ballhawk defense? Like, I rode with the fucking Cowboys all year, like, I like when defenses are like that, so… I think there's some sort of, like, maybe tiny sliver of credibility I'm left with.

36:21 David Clarke: where I can say, like, I don't know what's gonna happen. David Clarke: I don't know what's gonna happen, we'll see. … David Clarke: It's… it could be as epic as when I was just watching them win every week, being like, well, they're obviously good, they're, like, 1-11 games, and you guys were, like, so soft, and then they did collapse. David Clarke: So, you know, like, that did happen. Robert Kelly: I'll never forget when Big Ben got that ball snapped over his head in the first play of that playoff game. It was so satisfying. David Clarke: Yeah. Robert Kelly: It was a very satisfying game. David Clarke: There you guys go. There you guys go. Wishing ill on your friend. Just wanting him to be miserable and sad. David Clarke: And picking the Packers at 10, and trying to put bad juju on the Bears by making them too high on the list, and fucking hoping that I have a bad time at home because Aaron Rodgers is wishing it into existence. You use malice to make your wish come true. Pure malice.

37:15 Robert Kelly: Missouri needs company, bro. And I've been miserable during the football season for years, so…. David Clarke: It's funny, too, because I always do come into the year, like, the most optimistic, because I've just convinced myself the bears are going to be good for no reason. Mike Marcangelo: Always had the Steelers to fall back on. Yeah. And now that's gone. David Clarke: Everything… no, I mean, the safety, you're right, the safety net's gone, I'm like, fuck it, I'm just a Steelers fan for the second half, because the Bears fucking suck. Mike Marcangelo: I can't wait. I just can't wait. So I am hoping for you, and I do think, and we'll talk about this next week. David Clarke: For me, for the podcast, I know, I know deep down. Mike Marcangelo: We're gonna be teammates, we're gonna be teammates. I'm hoping for you that you have a meaningful December for Chicago Bears football, too. And you can just put Aaron Rodgers and everyone else on the back burner. Don't even worry about it.

38:00 David Clarke: That's really nice of you to say. Mike Marcangelo: I thought so. David Clarke: Just for the record, I… David Clarke: I'm, like, coming in… was that… I was, like, are we NFC this year? You were like, yeah. I was like, alright. And I started thinking about my personal…. Mike Marcangelo: 18 and 3. David Clarke: You might start. Robert Kelly: I think about my predictions, but I was like…. David Clarke: It was funny to go right from, like, he's gonna like this, to, like, he's gonna be so mad about this because it's the NFC North, and being like, no, I was gonna name a number for the Bears that was, like, really realistic and, like, really grounded and down-to-earth, and then I was immediately gonna insult the Packers. David Clarke: Like, aggressively insult the Packers. And I say was in the sense that I'm gonna do that, just so you know, next week when we're on the show. Maybe we should do the NFC North second to that, like, in the middle, I don't know, just so we can flesh it out a little bit. We might have to argue. Alright, Cincinnati Bengals.

38:50 David Clarke: Everyone sees them, the narrative seems to be. David Clarke: Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow connection is gonna return, we're finally gonna get to watch the Cincinnati Bengals of old. David Clarke: They've gone… the banished are the demons of their slow starts, banished are the demons of their inability to get off the ground, and then, like, scrambling to… you know, they've… they've potentially made some, … David Clarke: good moves in the sense that Higgins is… David Clarke: you know, there. Like, whatever happens that he, like, plays on the team. I think, you know, the Chase Burrow-Higgins connection, like, is sort of undeniable. It's really gonna be… David Clarke: Can they get a hot… can they finally have a hot start? Or are we just gonna see their coach get fired? Like, what's… what's actually… like, the… I think the Bengals can break either way. I really think they can… they could… and I think the start is gonna be a big determining factor. Now, I would bet on a Bengals' slow start, just based on, like, history.

39:47 David Clarke: I… I… 75% of the time, they do come good in the later half of the season. Later third of the season, even. But… David Clarke: I don't know. I am kind of high on them. I do love watching Joe Burrow throw the ball to those guys, and I think he's… I mean, if we were going on… David Clarke: ability to dethrone Patrick Mahomes last season, I was picking Burrow number one every single time up until last year, whenever, like, the wheels completely came off. David Clarke: I'd put him above Lamar for likelihood, and I'm just talking about the AFC here, even now. David Clarke: sure, the Eagles are still the team to beat, coming out of the other conference, but… David Clarke: I don't know, I mean, I… I still probably think it's Burrow. Bobby, is it still Burrow, or is it Josh Allen now, just based on the fact that, like, for 3 years? But he's still… he's never been able to get over the hump, this is the thing!

40:36 David Clarke: So, what's the quarterback confluence here? Is Joe Burrow in the conversation, is my more succinct question. Is he in the conversation to actually compete and try to dethrone Mahomes? Because this is what we're always asking for out of him every year. Robert Kelly: No, he's still there. He's the only one that actually has done it. Let's be fair. He went in to Arrowhead and beat Robert Kelly: Patrick Mahomes for. So yes, he still is in that realm. This season comes down to Zach Taylor for me. This… this is all on Zach Taylor now. This is his make or break season. If… if the Bengals come out to that slow start, I don't know if Zach Taylor makes it past week 4 or 5. Robert Kelly: Because I think they cut the bait early, if the Bengals get out to that.

41:16 Robert Kelly: that slow start they do every single year. Because this is make or break for them. You know what I mean? You can't… you cannot waste another year of Joe Burrow. You cannot do it. When you have Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, and Jamar Chase, you have to be competing for a championship every year. And it's… it's… it's blasphemy, and it's… it's… Robert Kelly: Putting a middle finger to the football god for giving you that quarterback if you're not doing that. Robert Kelly: So, this is it for the Bengals. If it's not this year, then it's not happening for Zach Taylor. He needs to go, in my opinion. David Clarke: What do you think, Mike? Mike Marcangelo: I mean, honestly, yep, I wholeheartedly agree, like, honestly, the barometer is, is after 6 games, if the Bengals have 3 wins, they're in a much better spot than they've been in the last 3 years. Because they usually start with, what, 1 and 4?

42:01 Mike Marcangelo: 1 and 5, like, 1 and 3, like, you can't do that shit. So, all we're asking is that a slow start, sure, like, just don't be… Mike Marcangelo: don't be the opposite of what we know you two being at the end of the year, right? Like, we know that this offensive… that this team offensively is a juggernaut. I have… I have some questions about whether Hendrickson's gonna play. If he doesn't. David Clarke: And that's a huge question mark, I mean, they've never been… That's a big question mark. Yeah, like, they've never… I didn't know that this was gonna become a situation, like, until… this didn't happen until in between the last time we recorded and this, right? Where he… it's basically, like, they're shopping him now. David Clarke: It's a very similar problem, I think, that you have with Micah Parsons in Dallas, and we've talked about this extendedly already on the Power Ranking Show.

42:45 David Clarke: what's the package look like? I mean, honestly, like, what does the fucking package look like for that guy? David Clarke: I… David Clarke: I would give anything for him to be on the Bears, but I think we'd have to be, like… we'd have to bet the whole farm, basically, on Caleb being able to lead a team to a Super Bowl if we wanted to… if we wanted to get… get Henderson, so… David Clarke: I kind of think he might stick around, you know what I mean? Like, was it a leverage move? Like, I… I don't… who makes the… who's… what's the trade? Mike Marcangelo: Well. David Clarke: What is the trade like? Mike Marcangelo: He's saying… he's saying he won't play in his current contract. David Clarke: But it's so weird, it's like, pay the guy. Mike Marcangelo: Right. Well, they can't, because they paid Tee Higgins and Jamar Chase. So they've, like, they've made this… Mike Marcangelo: I don't think they can pay him what he's actually worth, no.

43:27 David Clarke: where's the, like, Joe Burrow restructure? Don't worry, we're gonna get it back for you in endorsements, you know, under the table Tom Brady situation, you know what I mean? Like, why was Brady the only one that could ever really do that? Mike Marcangelo: But here's the thing, like, last year, that… Henderson accounted for 85% of the total sacks for the Bengals. David Clarke: He's a beast. Mike Marcangelo: That's not good. Like, they weren't leading the league in sex, right? So, every year, they've depended on him to really be the game stopper on the defensive side, and without him, like, you're asking Burrow to do more, and that offense to do more. You have to score 30 to win a game. Mike Marcangelo: And I think that's gonna be really… that's really hard for, for anybody to do.

44:12 David Clarke: Yeah. Lot of shootouts. A lot of shootouts for this. 1 and…. Robert Kelly: Weeks 1 and 2, they come out with the Browns and Jags. So they could distribute… Robert Kelly: They should be 2-0 coming out the gates. If they're not, then that spells trouble, for sure. David Clarke: Yep. Robert Kelly: Then after that… Robert Kelly: After that, they got the Vikings, Broncos, and Lions. So they got tough games after those first two, but… Robert Kelly: If they get out the gates hot, I think they have a good chance of at least starting, what, 3-2? And that's 10 times better than what they've done over the past 3 years. David Clarke: They're right in the middle of… this is so funny, too, because they're right in the middle of the pack for strength of schedule. They're 17. David Clarke: So it's like, right banks, like, square in the middle, they play just as many shitty teams as they do good teams, and honestly, if that's me, if I'm Zach Taylor and I'm worried about keeping my job, you gotta go out there and be glad that you gave Burrow his receivers, and whatever happens with Henderson, it… David Clarke: You gotta just… David Clarke: run the score up on shitty teams, you gotta be a flat track bully, you gotta go fuck up, you just have to have the biggest engine. You know, you don't have to necessarily win the race on technicalities, you just have to absolutely blow out those teams that you start the season with, the Browns and the Jags, you gotta go fuck them up.

45:22 David Clarke: So… and, like, if that looks like 42 to 34, and you're like, the fucking Browns scored 34 points on them, we're worried, and it's like, well, whatever. Like, offensively, they scored every time they went down the field. If you're 40+, you basically score on every fucking drive. So, you know, it just depends on if it's touchdowns or kicks, and it's like, cool. Like… David Clarke: I'm happy enough with that start to the season. The Bengals are gonna be a very interesting team to watch. There could be a lot of gunfights, a lot of shootouts, there could be a lot of different things happening, behind the scenes, and I was doing this on the earlier shows. The… where does the team rank on your power rankings, but then where does the team rank? David Clarke: for television viewing. How good of a TV show are the Cincinnati Bengals this year? And I have to say, as we got into the top, yeah, for sure, like, right when we hit the top 10, there were teams in the bottom 5 that we said were gonna be good TV teams, you know? Like, just looking back at it right now, we put the New Orleans Saints as dead last in TV watching.

46:22 David Clarke: Ranking, but… because at least the Cleveland Browns' defense is fun to watch, right? But then, you know, I was making a case for the Carolina Panthers, like, you know, maybe now Bryce has Tet, like, let's see what happens, right? Like, there's gonna… it's gonna be, like, something to tune in for. David Clarke: The Colts are a fucking hot, dramatic mess. You know, everything that's going… I mean, they probably did the smartest thing for their organization by just benjing Richardson and just declaring Jones the starter, because honestly, like, don't even dick around with that guy ever again. We, like, we talked about this at length. David Clarke: On the show. David Clarke: The Miami Dolphins, like, you know, there's teams back there that rank higher on the TV watch list, on the must-see TV list, than they do on the power rankings, right? This is the first, like, true top 10 team, I think, that's appointment viewing. I want to see Joe Burrow throw to Jamar Chase again this year. It's part of my life. It's part of what I like to do.

47:12 David Clarke: Speaking of teams that I think every year rank highly on the, must-see TV list, and being a local Los Angeles resident, this really benefits me. David Clarke: The Los Angeles Rams. I get that Matt Stafford is a million years old now, and I get that he looks every day of it, because he was… see, he's sort of the… would you guys call him the Ben Roethlisberger of this era, just on… on… he's our toughest QB? Because of his age and, like, toughness, he's our toughest QB, and he has that, like, well… David Clarke: He could do it, you know? He could… I mean, it's… I wouldn't count him out. It's like, that's the tenor that we used to talk about Ben Roethlisberger. That's now the tenor in which we talk about Stafford. David Clarke: Sean McVay, I still think, is my number one rated coach in the NFL, hopefully soon to be replaced on that rankings board. There's a lot of rankings boards to keep track of, but hopefully soon to be replaced by Ben Johnson.

48:04 David Clarke: Kyron Williams, They're fun to watch on offense. They have good offensive upside. David Clarke: another team that could start slow and come back, and like, if I was gonna tell you guys their strength of schedule, it's… David Clarke: Where are they? Do they exist? David Clarke: Where are the ramps? Oh, there they are. Yeah, 20th. So, 20th hardest, so… David Clarke: I don't know, do they rank high on your guys' TV viewing, too, or are they just all on all the time here for me? Robert Kelly: No, yeah, they're definitely high on the list. I think replacing, Cup with Adams, to me, is an upgrade. Having Devonte Adams as your number. David Clarke: Yeah, because he just looked weird, bro. And the Jets looked weird anyway, right? So….

48:48 Robert Kelly: But he still put up… he still put up numbers, even in that weird Jets offense. David Clarke: I wouldn't call them numbers, but sure. They're numbers in the sense that they are integers, like, they're, you know, like, they exist on the mathematical spectrum. I wouldn't… I wouldn't say the word… I imagine that the idiom, put up numbers means a little bit higher stats than Devonta Adams' 2024-2025 season, but… David Clarke: I think he looked like he still had some athletic ability and, like, ability to be slotted into a team. I would agree with that. Robert Kelly: And being… he might be top 3, number 2 wide receiver in the league now. Mike Marcangelo: Would you agree? I can't…. Robert Kelly: Hagen's device. David Clarke: Jenkins is number one, obviously. Robert Kelly: Right. Mike Marcangelo: Yep.

49:28 David Clarke: I'm struggling to think of… I mean, I… could I… could I… could I interest you in Aroma Dunze? Robert Kelly: What about George Pickens? David Clarke: Yeah, George Pickens is a pretty good number 2, pretty fucking good number 2. Robert Kelly: But now it's Devonte… now you have Devontae Adams. Granted, it's an old Devonte Adams, but I think that's number two, instantly. David Clarke: Mike? Mike Marcangelo: I mean, I don't know if he's better than Chris Godwin as number 2 right now, but we haven't seen it yet, but it's close, right? I think Puka and Delonte on that team is gonna be… Mike Marcangelo: just must see if Stafford can hold up. It's odd that he hasn't taken a single snap even in practice, because his back is just so bad. So, like, that can't be good. But if there's a coach that Mike Marcangelo: you know, I think over the last 5 years that you'd say, I do trust in this situation to make, you know, make chicken salad out of chicken shit, it's gonna be Sean McVay.

50:27 David Clarke: Jameson Williams. David Clarke: Wide receiver, two shot. Jamison Williams. That's pretty up there. Robert Kelly: Yeah, he's not… he… he's not proven like these guys are yet, though. But he… Robert Kelly: That man's got some… that man's got some wheels. David Clarke: Neither is Rome, though, right? Like, Rome's not proven, necessarily, either, so… you know, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. I think I'd be happy. I'm pretty happy to have Rome Adunze as a wide receiver, too. I think anybody would. David Clarke: But Jamo, I mean, it's not the Ben Johnson offense anymore, but we'll see. David Clarke: Yeah, I'd say they're pretty high on the old, on the old TV watching, and I think that they have some offensive weapons that they can make do with, and I think they have, like, a stadium that, like, plays in their advantage. We'll see. We'll talk about where they're gonna land in the prediction show, but hey, Tampa Bay's offense! Do you think that they can repeat the high highs?

51:13 David Clarke: Of last season. Can Baker Mayfield go 40-plus in TDs again? That might be a stretch. Another great wide receiver, too, as Mike mentioned, and a good wide receiver room overall, with some hopeful health returning this year. David Clarke: I think that they make sense at 7. They… they… I'd say I'd be… I'd be more likely to see them drop than Rise, though. Mike? Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, it feels like we've seen their ceiling, and so, ultimately, I mean, I don't know if they can… if they can repeat what they did last year, but Baker, over the last, what, 3 years, has basically matched Mahomes, stat for stat. Mike Marcangelo: And it's been better, and we consider Patrick Mahomes, obviously, you know, the best quarterback in the league right now. Now, I'm not anointing Baker as a clear number two, but I am saying he's been competitive and kept up in terms of yards, completion percentage, touchdowns, interceptions. He's right there.

52:11 Mike Marcangelo: I just think that at this… at this point in time, you should start relying more on Chris Godwin than Mike Evans, if you… if you really want to keep succeeding. I think Mike Evans is a Hall of Famer, of course, but I mean, is his year 12 as a wide receiver? Robert Kelly: Yeah, year 12, I think it's year 11 in a row, putting up 1,000 yards, too. Mike Marcangelo: Yep. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, so, like, the wheels do fall off, unless you're Jerry Rice. Mike Marcangelo: But… I don't think Mike Evans is sharing this. David Clarke: I feel like Jerry Rice could still play. David Clarke: I never count that man out. David Clarke: What about the TV rankings? Just since this has become the theme of today, like, how do you like watching them on TV?

52:52 Mike Marcangelo: I mean, Baker always. Robert Kelly: Definitely. Mike Marcangelo: weird shit. So, like, they should all… any team that he is the starting quarterback of should be in top 10 for TV viewing. David Clarke: My, body image? Robert Kelly: You always have the added benefactor of the weird, tall, bullsh faces that he makes on the sideline. David Clarke: Have to agree. David Clarke: I don't think the commanders are gonna be this good. Mike Marcangelo: So this is the one that I just saved all my energy for. David Clarke: Same. I was still, like, really waiting to get here. Mike Marcangelo: It really irritates me, that the creator of this list put a team that beat the team right above them Mike Marcangelo: like, I don't understand how everything that's happened to the Lions in this offseason, you still think the Commanders are worse off than them. It doesn't make any sense. Washington went right into Detroit and beat the brakes off of them last year. And then, what did Detroit do? They lost both coordinators.

53:49 Mike Marcangelo: like, their offensive scheme is completely gone, Aaron Glenn's gone on defense, and now you are solely relying on the intellect of Dan Campbell, who I love, and the grit of Jared Goff, which… Mike Marcangelo: Who knows what's gonna be there if it's not schemed correctly? Mike Marcangelo: And the commanders have only added. I mean, they got Laramie Tunzel, right, from Houston, so that offensive line is now officially secure. Maybe Terry McLaurin is traded, maybe he isn't, but I think they already got a pretty good backup, just in case with Deebo. So… Mike Marcangelo: I just… I think Jaden Daniels is gonna be that much better in year… in year two.

54:29 David Clarke: I… I couldn't disagree more. Mike Marcangelo: Of course, you're on the Caleb bandwagon, so anything that goes against Caleb being the best quarterback of that draft class…. David Clarke: Alright, fine. Fine. Mike Marcangelo: Everything I say is influenced by who I am as a person. We can just… we can just agree that that is… Okay. David Clarke: That is a… that is a factor. I hate to break this tragic piece of news to you, but that's true of you as well. The fact of the matter is, forget, take Jaden out of it. I think Jaden's gonna still be good. So, like, I don't, you know, just take that out of it completely. David Clarke: if Terry McLaurin goes was a really funny thing to yada yada over right there, as you were like, you were like, yeah, I mean, Deebo might play three and a half games, so, like, that'll really… like, that'll really fucking cover having Terry fucking McLaurin, like, get out of here, dude. Like, if he loses Terry, they're fucked. Like, that's really bad, first of all. Second of all, they didn't improve that D-line, that was the thing they needed to get over the hump last year.

55:28 David Clarke: They were never beating that Eagles team. And I think that they were still very way ahead of schedule, more so than I think any of us could have expected going into the season last year. David Clarke: It's got… it's got Texans last year written all over it. It's just got… it's… everybody's high on the quarterback first year, everybody's high on the coach. It's got the second year of the Texans written all over it. If they lose their wide receiver one, it's exactly the same. It's exactly the same as, like, whether he's traded or injured, it's the exact same story as the Texans. David Clarke: One year ago, I can just see it. I can really picture it in my mind's eye. I think Jaden Daniels is a good quarterback. I don't have anything bad to say about him. I think he's a lot of fun to watch, and again, appointment viewing on the must-see TV rankings, but if they lose Terry, they didn't make any improvements on the defensive side of the ball at all.

56:16 David Clarke: Yeah, they did. They signed Dietrich Wise for New England, who I absolutely fucking love. Robert Kelly: Barnmill. David Clarke: And Von Miller, who's… how old? Robert Kelly: Jonathan Jones. Jonathan Jones isn't bad. Marshawn Lattimore is gonna be actually healthy this year. David Clarke: Yeah, Von Miller's 36, but okay, sure. David Clarke: You guys do your, you guys, you guys, you, you guys tell me. Mike Marcangelo: So, can you at least understand my argument that they should be ranked higher than the Detroit Lions? David Clarke: Yeah, I'm also way lower on the lines this year. I would say that both of them could maybe be replaced by a 7 and 8 in my head, just off the top of my head. … David Clarke: Yeah, I think that the Lions have basically lost their offensive guru, and we've seen how that goes in the past. Whether he works out as a head coach in Chicago or not, it's gonna be a huge… David Clarke: huge loss for Detroit, and, like, the things that really made them special were obviously coming from Ben Johnson's head. Again, whether that translates to being a head coach or not, I'm not saying that.

57:17 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. David Clarke: Clearly, he's a great offensive coordinator, so when you lose a great offensive coordinator, that's a big deal. I think he made Goff look a lot better than, he had any right to. I think that they still obviously have really good skilled players, but a lot of people, I mean. David Clarke: I love Alm Ross St. Brown, and I love the things that he was able to do in Johnson's offense last year, but, like, a lot of people are saying, like, he was schemed really, really well for. There's players inside the NFL that say that he gets, like, really, like, the schemes are really going for him, because he's just getting a lot of underneath routes, he's, like, he's touching the ball a lot, so that's why his stats are the way they are. I'm not saying that, but some people are saying that. A lot of people are saying that, see, I don't know where I got that tactic, but it's working.

57:58 David Clarke: … David Clarke: So, yeah, I agree. I think that the Detroit Lions are gonna go down a level. If, like you said, you're relying on the mind of Dan Campbell. David Clarke: Okay, cool. Mike Marcangelo: I just… I just…. David Clarke: The rocket. Mike Marcangelo: Last line, in this, in this really well-prepared Mike Marcangelo: a document that was sent to me by the real BK, Bob Kelly. It says that the Detroit Lions, if they stay healthy, I see them picking up right where they left off last year, that being the Detroit Lions. And where they left off last year was getting their asses handed to them by the Washington Commanders, who some… for some reason, they're ranked ahead of. Robert Kelly: Because their entire defense was hurt. If they stay healthy, you gotta remember, this team was… they were at 1 at one point in the power rankings left. Maybe they… I don't know if they ever got to 1, but they were at least at 2 at one point.

58:46 Mike Marcangelo: I think they were at 1. Robert Kelly: Right, so you gotta remember, this team last year was, at one point, Super Bowl favorites, and if they stayed healthy, I think that they make a better run than they did. Maybe they don't get past the Commanders and that Jaden Daniels magic that was happening, but if they stayed healthy, they at least would have gave them at least a competitive game. Robert Kelly: And I don't think we've been talking down on them as much as we would be. I do think the offensive coordinator is a little bit bigger of a deal than losing Aaron Glenn, losing Ben Johnson, because Jared Goff Robert Kelly: is really gonna make what this offense go or not. You know what I mean? If… if Jared Goff can step up and be the quarterback he was the past two years, I think the Lions are gonna stay right in the top 10 all year. But if we go back to see… Robert Kelly: But, right, if we go back to seeing Jared.

59:33 David Clarke: Is that what I'm trying to…. Robert Kelly: Three years ago, then… then, yeah, the Lions could be in trouble. But you don't think that they just end up relying more on Gibbs and Montgomery at this point? David Clarke: I mean, more than they already were. David Clarke: That's how he made Goff look good, is he, like, used them sparingly. You know what I mean? Like, I…. Mike Marcangelo: And also, if… Sorry, DK, I'll give you. David Clarke: No, go ahead. Mike Marcangelo: if their defense takes a step back, then they're not going to be able to rely on the running game, because they're going to have to throw it more, because they're going to be coming from behind more. So, like, you're really putting everything on the fact that Mike Marcangelo: Bobby, your belief is… Mike Marcangelo: if every person that was injured last year comes back and is healthy, then they're gonna be fine. Like, then they didn't even need Aaron Glenn, really, because, you know, he didn't really do anything, they just need… they just need the players. That sounds like it's your take.

1:00:22 David Clarke: Well, he was very high on Aaron Glenn as a head coach earlier in this iteration, so I… both things actually cannot be true. So, Bobby, pick one. Robert Kelly: I mean, I'm very high on Eric Glenn as a head coach. I think that's more on the Justin Fields bandwagon, to be honest. But I just…. David Clarke: At some point, he's gonna have to throw a ball, though, right? Like, surely they're gonna make him throw once or twice, because he hasn't thrown a ball at all preseason. David Clarke: It's disconcerting at best. Robert Kelly: It is disconcerting, I agree with that. But yeah, no. I just think the Lions this year, with… if they play up to their par, I think they're a little bit better than the Commanders. Plus, I couldn't put the Commanders in the top 5 and have two NFC East teams in the top 5. I just couldn't possibly do it. It wasn't in my bones to do it.

1:01:13 Mike Marcangelo: I respect that, that's just honesty. David Clarke: That was honesty. That was nice. It was a really nice moment for all of us. We're all better men because of it. How about Josh Allen, who just married Hailee Steinfeld from Sinners? Did you guys see Sinners? Mike Marcangelo: I did, yeah. David Clarke: Do you like it? Mike Marcangelo: I think so, like, I don't… I feel like… I thought… I didn't know it was, like, gonna be, like, a comedy, but it was. David Clarke: Comedy's a stretch. Mike Marcangelo: I. David Clarke: Did you see it? Mike Marcangelo: No, I did not say it. Mike Marcangelo: It was like a cinematic vampire diaries that was just… has all this cultural subtext. Mike Marcangelo: thrown in your face. So yeah, that's… it was… I laughed. I found myself laughing at things that I shouldn't be laughing at.

1:01:55 David Clarke: … Subtext, by definition, is not being thrown in your face. Mike Marcangelo: This one was. David Clarke: That's what makes it subtext in the first place. Secondly, it's nothing like The Vampire Diaries, it's awesome. So, moving right along. Bob, you should watch it, it's good, don't listen to Mike. David Clarke: Josh Allen just married the hot girl from Sinners, so he had a great summer. He's the reigning MVP. I mean, he might have had the best summer… David Clarke: Of anybody, if you really think about it. … and he's coming in to a team… David Clarke: Yeah, Shakurbian Hertz sucks, but he was basically fuckin' G.I. Joe last year. Josh Allen. We forget. How quickly we forget, because it didn't really translate into a… David Clarke: Meaningful postseason run.

1:02:41 David Clarke: I agree with them being a 4. I think we're back to sort of being on the same page here. Spoiler alert, my top 4 would be identical to Bobby's, I think. It's sort of undeniable how this 4 is put together. David Clarke: Bosa, hope he can stay healthy. Tredavious White, Maxwell Harrison, good, good, good to point out Maxwell also, because I just think, yeah, this is, like, sort of what they needed. I, I think they needed a little, a little… David Clarke: depth by, you know, bringing it at the top and in the middle, and I think, Josh Allen's owed a defense that can really, like, keep him in games so he doesn't have to score 38 points a game anymore. David Clarke: What do you think, Mike? Are you… I hate to say it, you know, I know we're all sort of rooting for the Pats here, but on Missing the Point, the Boston Sports Podcast, but, I think we're talking about, I think we're talking about the AFC's champs.

1:03:33 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, yeah, 100%. They're the AFC East champs. Josh Allen's gonna look like he's an MVP again, and this is if we're just talking about regular season. I mean, I just, like, this is where… this is where they should be ranked. The number 4, number 3, Mike Marcangelo: are the classic… Mike Marcangelo: Regular season stat leaders, they make you look good, and then they just fall in the playoffs every year. David Clarke: Or who you hire on between the… spoiler alert. David Clarke: Everybody. Mike Marcangelo: Lamar. But it's coming. David Clarke: Baltimore is at number 3. You're higher on Lamar than you are Josh Allen? Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, because I'm higher on Harbaugh than I am McDermott. I don't think McDermott's a good head coach, and I think you got one more… I mean, to what we've all said about, ….

1:04:14 David Clarke: All things considered. I thought this was about as far as we could… I think… I thought it was a very clear, this is about as far as we can take it situation. David Clarke: Like, at the end of last year, Bobby, am I crazy? Robert Kelly: What, with Harba? David Clarke: Yeah, I thought we were putting him… we had him on the hot seat all year last year. Robert Kelly: Yeah, no, we've had Harbaugh in the hot seat for a couple years now. I think if he doesn't get over the hump finally, I think it's time to… time to… time to look. David Clarke: You know he's gonna be good in the regular season, like, it's just a matter… over the hump, like, if he doesn't win a Super Bowl, he's fired. I thought that was last year. Mike Marcangelo: just… but let's not move the conversation away from Sean McDermott, who, by all accounts, has a top-five quarterback.

1:04:55 David Clarke: I don't want to say… I don't want to say what you want me to say. Mike Marcangelo: He's a division. David Clarke: I do agree that obviously I have Harbaugh over McDermott also. Of course I do. However, I don't want to distract from the fact that we did say… David Clarke: we thought Harbaugh was getting shit canned if he didn't… if he… if what happened, essentially what happened, happened. So… I'm just… I don't know, I don't wanna… I don't wanna talk out of both sides of my mouth. Who would I pick as a head coach? Like, if I… if the Bears had to hire one of them tomorrow? Harbaugh, every day of the week, twice on Sundays, of course. David Clarke: But… David Clarke: I also, at the same time, and I think you can hold both of these thoughts in your head, I think that Harbaugh's taken Lamar and that Ravens team, basically, as far as they're gonna go. I think we've seen it. I think we've seen their ceiling. So, you know… David Clarke: it's not to say that Lamar can't get, like, put in better playoff performances and like that.

1:05:47 David Clarke: will make an impact, but I just think that, like, you know what they are now. David Clarke: Right? You know what they are now, and I just think that it's… the blueprint's there for all… like, they're kind of a… I thought they were at the end of their window. Was I out of line to think that that Harbaugh window had already ended and he gets one more? Mike Marcangelo: I think he gets one more. David Clarke: Well, he does, but I mean, I just… I was… am I crazy to have been surprised? Mike Marcangelo: Even if it happens again this year, which I think it's going to, they're gonna win 12 games, 13 games, and not make the Super Bowl, and. David Clarke: Yeah, I mean, I guess I did just make the point, like, every time you fire a good coach, it goes badly. Like, every time you…. Mike Marcangelo: You can't hold the same thing… you can't hold your beliefs about Mike Tomlin. David Clarke: Yeah. Mike Marcangelo: And be advocating for John Harbaugh to be, to be gone.

1:06:30 David Clarke: I think the big difference in those situations is Lamar, though. Like, I think you have this, like, you know, very, very, very valuable piece that, like, you just need to make sure you have the guy that you're getting the most out of. You have to. David Clarke: you have to have that, or, like, if you piss him away. If he doesn't make a Super Bowl, like, that is such a letdown, right? Like, considering the numbers that he puts up in the regular season, and I think had an improved playoffs, you know, because he did. David Clarke: … I hope he… I hope that that isn't wasted, I really, I really. Mike Marcangelo: But then a terrible interception and a fumble in Buffalo, he's the reason you lose that game. However, again, let's not distract. David Clarke: He had a better playoffs. Are you disagreeing with that statement? That he had a better playoffs.

1:07:12 Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, he… no, he did have a better lineups, 100%. …. David Clarke: We were worried for the first. Mike Marcangelo: I just…. David Clarke: You were worried your take was gonna die on the first game. Mike Marcangelo: I was not, I was not, never worried. I'm not going to make it take and then get worried about it, you know. But the real problem I want to talk about here is Sean McDermott has, I would say, the equal caliber of talent at quarterback as Harbaugh does. He has an easier division than he has for the last five years. Mike Marcangelo: And he… he still can't get that team to the Super Bowl either, right? Like, they… I mean, I guess you just… Mike Marcangelo: you just run into… you just run into Mahomes, and that's the same thing for everybody, but…. David Clarke: Mornings is getting worse every year, for the record. That's just a sneak preview of when we get to…. Mike Marcangelo: It's still…. David Clarke: Number one, number two teams. Mike Marcangelo: Still making the Super Bowl.

1:07:53 David Clarke: Yeah, I know. Statistically, he's going down every year. David Clarke: But, fine. Whatever. Cool. Fuck you, Pat. …. Robert Kelly: And still, Joe Burrow's still the only one that fucking beat him in the playoffs. David Clarke: I know, I know. Mike Marcangelo: Correct. Mike Marcangelo: But he starts 0-6 every year, so he only gets one shot to do it, and he did it. Robert Kelly: That's fair. … I… I just think this is… Robert Kelly: at the end of this year, it's very possible that there's, like, 3 or 4 very high-profile jobs open, if things don't go the right way for a few of these teams. Because the Bills, man, if things don't go the right way, and they don't at least make a good push against the Chiefs, I think McDermott's done, man. I don't think you can go through this again with Josh Allen. This is the same situation here in Cincinnati, where you have an elite Robert Kelly: top-level quarterback, an all-time quarterback, and you cannot waste another year of this. You can't do it. You gotta get to Robert Kelly: That's the, that's the thing, is like.

1:08:48 David Clarke: It's like, you can't actually lay any of the blame. David Clarke: on Josh Allen, because it feels so much more of, like, they're wasting his prime type deal, because to me, it's always looked like the defense is playing scared in pivotal, high stakes. And listen, we know when we see… we've seen it, you know, you've seen your team go through it. Play the best team in your conference, … David Clarke: it's down to minimal, tiny little moments, you know? Like, you're playing… I think that the conference championship games, more so than the Super Bowl, are the pinnacle of football every year. I think that watching those two games are the best football you're gonna see, because the Super Bowl, as far as a football spectacle.

1:09:29 David Clarke: Can suffer from the… David Clarke: entertainment spectacle that it becomes. It can suffer from the multi-week break in between. It can suffer for the fact that it's the Super Bowl, so it makes certain players play fucking weird. David Clarke: And yeah, it's been amazing, we've seen, like, unbelievable games, but I think as far as just, like, the best teams playing their best football, that's where you see it, is the NFC Championship and the NFC Championship. David Clarke: And I think you know I'm right about that, right? Because you just… it's like, okay, this is like, we've gotten to the… we've gotten to the top of the mountain here. David Clarke: The Super Bowl, it's just, it's, you know, the lights are so bright that it's, like, you just don't know. The, … David Clarke: The fact that at that point is when we consistent, like, there or thereabouts.

1:10:12 David Clarke: as far as the season progresses, is where we consistently see McDermott, and I… you have to say it's McDermott, because it's the defense playing scared in really, really high-stakes pivotal moments, and I think that if I was a Bills fan, because I know they overwhelmingly want to keep him, even if they don't win the Super Bowl this year, overwhelmingly they want to keep him. David Clarke: I think if I'm a Bills fan, I am terrified of two things. That happening again. David Clarke: You know, despite, like, everything that comes before it, because there's a lot of focus, on this show included, on the quarterbacks when the high stakes are there and they don't come through. They get absolutely fucking slaughtered. David Clarke: Defensively, I think that falls at the coach's feet, you know? What did Bill Belichick always do? He always made the right defensive plays. Yeah, he had Tom Brady. Of course he had fucking Tom Brady, but he always made the right defensive plays. He never lost it for Brady, when, like, Brady was gonna go and win it. Am I not… is there something I'm not thinking of?

1:11:02 Mike Marcangelo: You put Ellis Hobbs on Plexico Burst in 2007. 5'7", again, 6'4", one-on-one in the end zone, that's…. Robert Kelly: He also…. Mike Marcangelo: that one. Robert Kelly: He also won a Super Bowl 9-6 with Tom Brady, too, so…. David Clarke: I mean, I think he evens himself out at the very least. Who did he leave at home that one year for the Super Bowl? Mike Marcangelo: 9-6 never happened, it was 13-3. Robert Kelly: 13. Is that what it was? 13.3? Mike Marcangelo: I guess the Rams. David Clarke: Yeah. Robert Kelly: Indeed. David Clarke: Did he fully shut out the Falcons in the second half? David Clarke: Of that comeback game? Mike Marcangelo: Yes. David Clarke: I mean… David Clarke: It's part of it, no? Anyway, this is not the conversation we're here to have. The, …. Robert Kelly: Did he leave it at home? What was his name? It was the guy that… Malcolm Butler. Malcolm Butler.

1:11:45 David Clarke: Butler. Left Malcolm Butler at home. That was suspect. …. Mike Marcangelo: I don't know what happened there. David Clarke: Yeah, but I mean, I thought it was that he didn't bring them. I thought he didn't get on the plane. Mike Marcangelo: No, he, he, he put him into two field goal blocks. David Clarke: Was he there, like, did he get left at home, like, the week before, so there was, like, or anything like that? Like, did he play the AOC championship? Mike Marcangelo: He played two snaps of that Super Bowl, and none of them were on the defensive side of the ball. David Clarke: Did he have sex with Bill's wife? Like, what happened? Does anyone know what happened? Mike Marcangelo: Nobody knows what happened. David Clarke: Yikes. Robert Kelly: Still don't know what happened. David Clarke: Yeah, they keep… they play things pretty close to the chest over there, back in… back in New England, back in the before times. David Clarke: Yeah, no, no, I mean, I guess you're right, and you can't lay it quite at Harbaugh's feet yet. You know, I'd probably blame Lamar a little bit more, too, than I would Josh Allen, so I guess you're right, it… I think he should be more on the hot seat than he actually is. I just think that… David Clarke: They're really high on them there, over there in Buffalo, they really like them. So… I guess we'll see.

1:12:44 Mike Marcangelo: Was that a question, or was that a statement? David Clarke: No, it was sort of me, like, it was sort of me, like, just trailing off and, like, letting the moment relax as we talk about the Chiefs and the Eagles. Chiefs got beat up so bad in that Super Bowl, they maybe should be lower. David Clarke: Yeah, I don't know. That would be the one sort of point I would make about these top-tier teams here. …. Robert Kelly: I couldn't…. David Clarke: at every position, and like… David Clarke: They're finally the favorites. They're finally gonna be the favorites all season over the Kansas City Chiefs, which I actually like. I actually thank you for that, the Eagles. It's a much more interesting conversation. Robert Kelly: Of course, of course. And I just couldn't actually put the Bills or the Ravens above the Chiefs until they actually beat them. Robert Kelly: You know, that might change going into the season, depending on how the Kansas City offense ends up looking, depending on how they ended the year last year. But in my opinion, anytime you have an all-star quarterback, or a high-level quarterback like this, and you see them go out like that in the last game, usually the next year.

1:13:42 Robert Kelly: they make big things happen. I've seen it happen before, Tom Brady did it, you know, he had the cold. David Clarke: That's not usually. Robert Kelly: Peyton Manning has done it. David Clarke: he was losing. Like, that was just going from losing all the time to finally not. That's different, I think, than, like, winning a bunch, getting slapped down, and then coming… like, you can't, like, he's not… I mean, yeah, that would be pretty impressive to do what, like, Tom Brady did, right? Like… David Clarke: By suffering, like, a tough defeat in the Super Bowl. There's a Super Bowl hangover incoming, in my opinion. I really, I really believe that that's the case. I think that there's gonna be… it's… when teams lose the Super Bowl, like, their seasons historically fucking suck afterwards. Like, it's just a thing that happens all the time.

1:14:30 Robert Kelly: Last year, though, was the worst season that we've seen out of Patrick Mahomes' offense, and the reason they got to the Super Bowl is because of that defense. They returned the entire defense, and in my opinion, Patrick Mahomes isn't having that same type season this season. David Clarke: They might be fine. Robert Kelly: I just…. David Clarke: traumatized by how badly they got run all over in that Super Bowl, though. Like, this is what I'm saying, like, that was a really high-profile, like, absolute beatdown of their defense. So, like, the Eagles were doing whatever they wanted for the entire game, and then they, like, pulled their starters. Like, it was bad. David Clarke: Like, Brady never got beat like that. Like, he never, ever got beat like that. So, if we're doing Brady v. Mahomes, like, I'm putting that on the… David Clarke: thing. I'm putting that on the docket of, like, why, like, why it'll never be Pat at this point, because unless he has… like, first of all, like I always say.

1:15:19 David Clarke: You better win as many, and you haven't done that yet, or do something like win 3 in a row, which… David Clarke: That now hasn't happened, thank fucking God for the Philadelphia Eagles, a sentence I never thought I'd say. I mean, this is what they do, though, they prevent three-peats, they prevented Brady's, too. So, you know, it's, … I'm really grateful that they exist, to be honest with you, for that reason, but I… David Clarke: Really feel strongly that David Clarke: it's gonna be a tough road ahead for the Chiefs. I think that, yeah, their defense is good, but I think a lot of their aura went away, man. I think a lot of their mystique went away. I think… David Clarke: This is the most beatable playoff here. David Clarke: for the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes that we've… David Clarke: seen since they won their first championship. And I think that's because a lot of what happens to your Josh Allens, your Buffalo Bills, your Baltimore Ravens, your Lamar Jacksons, is they fucking get in their head about Arrowhead. That's why we know Big Dick Joe Burrow, fucking Big Balls Burrow, was the only one to ever come in and actually do it.

1:16:19 David Clarke: I'll still call him a bunch of pussies. Even if they beat one of the two of them beats Mahomes in the playoffs this year, because it's like, yeah, well, you needed to wait until he had been stabbed by a thousand swords. You're like one of those shitty matadors in Spain that fucking, like, has to stab the fucking thing, like, 19 times before you beat it. Fistfight it, bitch! Like Joe Burrow did. … David Clarke: You won't. So, you know, I think we're gonna see the first year where either Lamar or Josh gets a dub over, over Mahomes. That's… that's my… David Clarke: best guess at how this season's gonna go. Super Bowl hangover, defense got its pants taken down in the Super Bowl in front of everybody, Kendrick Lamar watched that happen to you. They were Drake, the Eagles were Kendrick. David Clarke: It was… it was… tis… tis the season of absolute embarrassing beatdowns, and we were all happy to see it, so don't act like you weren't happy, too. I was happy to see that dynasty get fucking embarrassed on national television. So was Bobby, so was Mike, everybody, just so you guys know. No one's denying it.

1:17:15 Robert Kelly: I was a little less happy because it was the fucking Eagles, but still. David Clarke: You still didn't want to see them 3-peat, though. Robert Kelly: It was really, like, a lose-lose situation. Mike Marcangelo: I don't think, I don't think he cares. David Clarke: No? Robert Kelly: Yeah, it was a lose-lose situation, no matter what happened. David Clarke: Mike really didn't want to see the 3P, because obviously that would have, like, launched Mahomes into a… and I didn't, for that, honestly, same reason, because I still wouldn't have said he was equal to or better. But it would have been, like, at what everybody would know, shut the fuck up. Mike Marcangelo: How could it be better than a guy that has more and beat him forward? You know. David Clarke: Hasmore beat him for it, the Atlanta comeback and Brady never got beat like that are always gonna be the four tenets of my argument.

1:17:55 David Clarke: In the Brady vs. So Mahomes debate, one of which, I don't know if you remember, but for the past 3 years, I've been begging us not to have as a world. I've been like, it shouldn't be a conversation yet. I don't think the Montana conversation's been had yet. And I think that's… David Clarke: Like, I don't think he's above Joe Montana, like, to be totally honest with you. And that was like, how are you gonna beat Tom Brady with that stick? Every fucking year, as he got better and better and did more cool shit? You beat him with the Joe Montana stick. Now you gotta get beat with the Joe Montana stick and the Tom Brady stick. That's just how it works. You know, you gotta get… you gotta go through the rankings and through the gauntlet, and quite frankly, I… we're not gonna do it right now because we're running out of time, but… David Clarke: I could 1000%, I think, make the case that Montana is still a better QB statistically.

1:18:37 David Clarke: a better QB as far as, like, the era that he played in, the numbers that he has compared to, like, how pass-heavy offenses were, blah blah blah blah blah. I would mount the argument. So, like, don't come to me with Patrick Mahomes versus Tom Brady, ever, after that fucking shellacking, please. Mike Marcangelo: I would just say, in support of the Kansas City Chiefs, season, if Rasheed Rice, just to have somebody else drive his fucking car for the remainder of his career, Juju plays half of what he did last year, but if Hollywood Brown's healthy. Mike Marcangelo: Xavier Worthy, I mean, he's one of the fastest motherfuckers I've ever seen on the football field. I just think their offense has a chance to be more dynamic. It couldn't be less dynamic than it was last year.

1:19:18 David Clarke: I mean, I think it kind of hinges on if Travis Kelsey means what he says when he was like, oh, I wasn't… I was, like, eating tea kicks with Taylor Swift, I should have, like, been more focused on football. … if he has a… if he can return to form. David Clarke: I think that would be of the form of, like, 2 seasons ago, or 3 seasons ago. Mike Marcangelo: He just can't be your number one option anymore. David Clarke: No, but I think that, like, I think that we were all still pretty convinced he could turn it on in the playoffs, and, like, that didn't even really happen, so, like, if that's still the case, then I'd really worry about their postseason hopes. … I agree with you guys, though. I think that, obviously, they're still the Chiefs, but lastly, we do have the Philadelphia Eagles to talk about, and, like. David Clarke: your best defensive lineman was their third best defensive lineman last year. So, you know, it's really hard to even argue about whether or not the Eagles are stacked, because they fucking are. So, they're gonna be the frontrunners all year.

1:20:09 Mike Marcangelo: They just got my guy, John Mechie, from Houston, so they have a… he'll play. He'll play. David Clarke: And he will. Mike Marcangelo: He will. David Clarke: And it's gonna be in Philadelphia, I really love that. They're gonna be hard to knock off this number one spot, like you wrote here, Bob, in the rundown. It's gonna be really, really hard to unseat them, maybe easier than it was to unseat the Chiefs last year. Even though you didn't want to get burned, like you had the year before by, like, kind of being down on them until… David Clarke: they won a Super Bowl. I wouldn't do that with the Eagles. I know you have biases, I know that you have things to say about the Philadelphia Eagles as an organization, about Philadelphia as a city and the people that inhabit it, but… David Clarke: don't take them off the power rankings unless it really becomes obvious that they somehow have, like, are taking them down from number one. I doubt they're ever gonna leave the top 10, but I know your biases are there, but, like, don't do that to yourself, because we're… we should just leave them there safely and talk about the rest of the teams for the rest of the year, would be my best advice. But you do what you want to do, man.

1:21:03 Robert Kelly: Just for perspective, this is like you ranking the Packers number one in your power rankings. That's… that's how much it pains me to put the goddamn Philadelphia Eagles at number one. Mike Marcangelo: He would never do it. David Clarke: That would never happen. Robert Kelly: That's what I don't. David Clarke: rankings. You know, like, you're far above…. Robert Kelly: away. David Clarke: institution. Like, you respect the game. You know, you respect the institution, the power rankings, that's why you're in charge of them. That's why you are their caretaker, you know, their custodian. If I did the power rankings, I would do ridiculous shit. Like, if the Packers just put on the Eagles performance and had the Eagles roster, and all the same things were true about them, I still wouldn't have them in number one. David Clarke: I may not even have them in the top 10. It would create such havoc and chaos.

1:21:44 David Clarke: Yeah, yeah, I think that 12's pretty good for them, to be honest with you. It was a pretty lucky run. I would just be saying ludicrous shit like that, so… David Clarke: that's why you're the custodian of the whole thing, you know what I mean? I think it'd be hard for the Patriots to drag themselves off of 32 the past two seasons, if Mike's running it. So, you actually do a pretty good job, I think, of being unbiased. Probably especially because the… lately, because the Cowboys are a lot less good, and you've come to terms with that. David Clarke: When the Cowboys were good, there was a little bit more conflict there, but honestly, not any… not any worse than I would have been. In fact, significantly better than I would have been if my team was… David Clarke: At that level, ever. Robert Kelly: I think the Cowboys have been at one once in the entire iteration of the Power Rangers. I think it's happened one time.

1:22:27 David Clarke: I think the most egregious one was when we ranked the, QBs, and you put Dak in, like, the top 5. I think that was the…. Robert Kelly: Most of previously. Mike Marcangelo: His exact quote, his exact quote was, he has the stats to be a top-two QB in the NFL, and I almost. Robert Kelly: I'm that year. Bro, he did that year. He was… remember, he was an MVP candidate? Come on. David Clarke: Candidate. I'm an MVP candidate. Candidate? David Clarke: Maybe he's Ralph Nader. Remember when he figured out…. Robert Kelly: You know, he figured out footwork, and how that works as a quarterback. David Clarke: I don't know if you knew this, but footwork's kind of important. I was like, don't say things like that. Please, don't say things like that. You need to run your fucking shit. They all need social media managers at this point. I'm a fan of Saquon.

1:23:10 David Clarke: I really enjoyed the performance. Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. David Clarke: they put in in that Super Bowl. I don't hate the Eagles by any stretch. Robert Kelly: It worries me this year, I get a lot. I'm not gonna lie. The… No. David Clarke: Like, take. Robert Kelly: input. David Clarke: Easy. Robert Kelly: He had 378 touches last year, which is by far a career high. So, I don't know if he can put that much work on his legs again this year, and they're definitely gonna need to rely on him just as much to be. David Clarke: I mean, yeah, it's a career… it's a career workload, because he did barely finish a season for his first three seasons or 4 seasons in the NFL, right? So it's like, it's not hard to have a career touchline for Saquon Park. Robert Kelly: 278's a lot of touches. David Clarke: It is a lot. No, no, fair enough. Mike Marcangelo: to build on TK's point, though, like, of those 378 touches, I would imagine that Mike Marcangelo: 75% less of them were met with tackles behind the line of scrimmage as they were.

1:24:00 David Clarke: He was so… he was so clean, like, he had. Mike Marcangelo: It was a…. David Clarke: clean lanes. He put running on his legs, but he didn't put a ton of hits on his legs. It wasn't like prime AP, like, dude, just go out of bounds, you don't need that last yard. You know, it was like, he was scorching everybody, so it was kind of like…. Mike Marcangelo: Because, you know, like…. David Clarke: put that fucking Giants GM on suicide watch, like, Saquon's bursting through the hole again. Like, that was the theme of last season, it wasn't like, wow, he runs so hard, you know? Mike Marcangelo: Maybe don't, like, jump and reverse hurdle anymore, though. Like, you shouldn't. David Clarke: It was sick. David Clarke: Doom, do that, that was…. Robert Kelly: He got popped on that play, too. He got popped. Mike Marcangelo: Right. David Clarke: That was fucking nasty, dude. That was sick.

1:24:40 David Clarke: I really enjoyed it. David Clarke: That was one of the coolest highlights I've ever seen. David Clarke: Like, genuinely, one of the coolest things I've witnessed in watching sports, like, in my life. I… I was so impressed by that. Just the momentum running, you know? Like, the Saquon's such a ma… like, a master of downhill momentum running, to the point of, like. David Clarke: he only did the backwards jump because he had sort of been knocked, like, in a 180 degree way, so he was like, I know that guy's there, I'm pretty sure I can just fucking jump. David Clarke: And it's like, oh my god, you pressed Y? You pressed Y in that situation? That was a circle situation, and you pressed Y, that was really. Robert Kelly: Definitely a circle situation. David Clarke: Yeah, I'm, I'm incredibly… because, yeah, he, you know, you go down, but you don't die. I was worried for his spine in midair. I was worried for my spine watching it, to be honest with you. I was like, I love my back watching Saquon Barkley jump on TV.

1:25:32 David Clarke: Huh! Robert Kelly: Eagles fans… Eagles fans would be pissed if we didn't mention Devonte Smith in the number 2 wide receiver conversation. He's up there, too. David Clarke: That's a good point. Yeah, we did forget him. There's a lot of good wide receiver 2s right now, I have to say, in our defense. Like, we named a lot of them. I might have said Rome early after thinking about some of the ones that I forgot, but … I do like him as a two. I mean, it's a good two. David Clarke: Anything else? Anything… any other crazy storylines? What's going on with, with, Parsons? Is he gonna… what's going on? Robert Kelly: Last I checked, his brother posted a story saying how bad he wanted to be out there, but I don't know what the fuck that means, if, you know, that means he's actually coming back or not. I don't fucking know, man. I'm not… I'm not optimistic, to be honest. It doesn't look like he's playing week one, I gotta be honest.

1:26:18 David Clarke: What do you make in the, what do you make of the Jerry Jones just likes to keep the Cowboys in the news theory? Mike Marcangelo: I mean, we know it, it's just, like, he's just saying the quiet part out loud, right? Like, we've… we've seen this our entire lives. Mike Marcangelo: He can't win a championship, he hasn't won in 30 years, he can't get to an NFC title game, so he just. Robert Kelly: We can release eight-part Netflix documentaries, though. Mike Marcangelo: You sure can. David Clarke: He couldn't prevent, reintegration of schools. David Clarke: No matter how hard he tries. Mike Marcangelo: If we just stick to him as, like, the owner of the Cowboys… Mike Marcangelo: I would just say, he… I mean… Mike Marcangelo: I would not be surprised if Michael was traded week 2, and I don't know what kind of haul they're gonna get for him, but….

1:27:05 David Clarke: That's my whole thing, though, that haul's bananas, like, I don't know who has it. Mike Marcangelo: The Texans have it. Robert Kelly: Listen, I just don't get… if you're gonna pay…. David Clarke: I don't think he's… I don't think he's trading him to the Texans. Robert Kelly: You're gonna pay CeeDee what you're paying him, you're gonna pay Dak what you're paying him, why the fuck wouldn't you pony up to pay my gut? It's the same thing with the Bengals. David Clarke: I don't know why they just pony back. Mike Marcangelo: To be totally honest with you. Robert Kelly: Agreed, agreed, agreed there. David Clarke: That was the mistake, just pay Mike instead. David Clarke: If it's me. David Clarke: I honestly think the right move that year was to, like, look at Dak and be like, see what you can get. David Clarke: Why don't you go see. Mike Marcangelo: Because Joe Milton might be the answer.

1:27:47 Robert Kelly: Joe Burton hasn't looked great, so I don't know. David Clarke: It's been a tough… it's been a tough preseason so far. You did… you did draft Trey Lance a few years ago, if you remember, right? The, …. Robert Kelly: Well, we traded for him. David Clarke: Sure. Oh, you traded for him, right. I mean, why, though? You know, like, why do that? David Clarke: If you, if you, like, a really…. Mike Marcangelo: for a 6-round pick. For a 6-round pick. David Clarke: That's high. That's high at that point. Mike Marcangelo: You got the number 3 overall pick from 2 years ago. 3 years ago, whatever it was. Yeah, and it went exactly as one would expect. David Clarke: So… David Clarke: I don't know, this is, like, this is strange, strange behavior by it from Jerry Jones, like, on a consistent basis, but…. Mike Marcangelo: I know that we have the prediction show next week, so I'm just gonna give you a little… just a little big market tease.

1:28:33 Mike Marcangelo: Because I'm not picking the AFC, but the Patriots will have more wins than the Cowboys this year. David Clarke: Oof. David Clarke: I don't know, I'd say they're neck and neck. David Clarke: I'd say they're, like, I'd say they're right around, yeah, it's like they're right around 8 or 9 wins. David Clarke: Like, both of them. So, it's… it's a… one gets the over, one gets the under, it's a matter of who. David Clarke: … I'd still probably see the Cowboys win 10 games. Robert Kelly: If Mike is there, if Mike is there, he can get…. David Clarke: If Mike is there. Mike Marcangelo: Please don't say that next week. I don't want to argue with you about the Cobbles, please. Just don't say that next week. David Clarke: Tune in next week for me and Mike's argument about the Cowboys. Alright, this was fun. Thanks, guys. We've power ranked the whole NFL, we're gonna predict their records next week. And then the week after that, we're gonna watch… David Clarke: the kickoff of the national football season. I'm sorry!

1:29:19 Robert Kelly: Scott Hansen… Scott Hansen is two weeks away from our life. Two weeks. David Clarke: Just can't wait! Robert Kelly: For 7 hours of commercial-free football. David Clarke: If you guys are excited as I'm…. Robert Kelly: That's right, that's right, they have little tiny ads now. David Clarke: Yeah, he doesn't get to say that anymore, he hasn't been allowed to say that for a while, but it doesn't matter, it's still an electric viewing experience, just, like, red zoning mainline into your eyeballs, every Sunday. David Clarke: Can't wait, love that we're kicking off on Thursday. That's the big advantage to the Thursday game, is that, like, you just get football earlier in the week. You don't have to, like, wait that long, even though the Thursday games are never good, maybe we'll figure that out this season, who knows? David Clarke: But for myself, for the real BK, David Clarke: Money, Mike Marc Angelo, this has been Missing the Point.