March 27, 2025
Transforming Lives Through Anonymous Drama: Breaking Down the Inner Critic
When Mark MacNicol stepped into a maximum security prison in 2016 to lead a theatre project with inmates serving life sentences, he couldn't have predicted how profoundly it would change his career trajectory. A writer, director, and producer by trade, MacNicol found himself captivated by the therapeutic potential of creative expression—particularly for those who would never identify as "creative types."
This revelation birthed Anonymous Drama, a groundbreaking approach that has now touched over 5,000 lives across prisons, rehabilitation centers, and community settings. At its core, the program challenges participants to examine the incessant conversation happening in their minds 24/7. While most of us accept this internal dialogue as simply "our thoughts," MacNicol's approach separates these voices into distinct characters—particularly the inner critic (negative) and the inner mentor (positive).
What makes this methodology revolutionary is its accessibility. MacNicol designed it specifically for people with zero interest in drama or therapy, yet who desperately need both. Through character development, improvisations, and script work, participants explore deeply personal issues through fictional characters, creating a protective layer of anonymity that makes vulnerability possible. The culmination—a live script reading before family and community members—has facilitated countless reconciliations between participants and estranged loved ones.
For those unable to attend in-person sessions, MacNicol has developed "Find your Mentor," a smartphone-accessible program that leverages custom AI to represent one's inner mentor. As he explains, "Rather than being trapped in a conversation in your head listening to the inner critic, we want you to engage with your inner mentor." This integration of technology with therapeutic principles demonstrates MacNicol's forward-thinking approach to emotional wellbeing.
Whether you're struggling with addiction, involved in the justice system, or simply seeking a better relationship with yourself, MacNicol's work offers a unique pathway forward. Visit his social media platforms to discover how Anonymous Drama might transform your inner dialogue and, by extension, your life.
Want to be a guest on Living the Dream with Curveball? Send Curtis Jackson a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1628631536976x919760049303001600
00:00 - Introduction to Mark McNichol
05:16 - From Hobby to Career: Mark's Writing Journey
12:08 - Anonymous Drama Program Explained
23:44 - AI Integration in Therapeutic Programs
33:10 - Inner Mentor and Personal Development
35:52 - Closing and Contact Information
WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Living the Dream Podcast with Curveball.
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If you believe you can achieve, Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire.
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Today, I am joined by accomplished mind coach writer and the creator of Anonymous Drama, mark McNichol.
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Mark, as I said, is the creator of Anonymous Drama.
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This is a unique drama therapy designed for people who are not interested in therapy or drama.
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Mark has a background in writing for a screen theater, so we're going to be talking to him about everything that he's up to, about his program and how he's helping people.
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So, mark, thank you so much for joining me today.
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Thanks for having me, Curtis.
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Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?
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So, as it relates to this work, my background pre-2016 was writing, directing, producing a bit of screen, mostly theatre couple of novels, so that was my day job.
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2016, I was invited by a charity into a maximum security prison to deliver a drama project, a theatre type project.
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I spent in the region of 16 weeks working with 10 inmates, all serving life sentences, and with my support, they created a piece of theatre that they went on to perform for their fellow inmates and friends and family and staff.
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Actually, it wasn't just me, there was three of us myself and a couple of other creative professionals who are working on behalf of that charity, and that project had a big impact on me.
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It was the first time that I had worked in a prison-type environment and I became obsessed with the idea of using the arts and creativity and theatre, not in a mainstream application, as I had been up until that point, but to actually use it in a way that attempts to affect positive change for the participants who are taking part in the group.
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So the intent is therapeutic.
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The intent is to improve the participants' emotional well-being, rather than other types of creative or drama groups, where the intent is to introduce the participant to the arts and creativity and theatre, etc.
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So that became a real interest.
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I started to study areas like psychodrama, drama therapy and the programme Anonymous Drama started.
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It was born, it came out of that first programme and since 2016,.
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Where are we now?
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So that's 2016,.
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That's like nine years.
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So over the last nine years over 5,000 participants have been through the programme, mostly either in prisons or residential rehabs or community rehabs or community sentence groups.
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But the objective of the programme historically has been to use the arts and creativity to try and improve the emotional wellbeing of participants, and I usually describe it as being like drama therapy for people who usually don't have any interest in drama.
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So over 75 percent of our participants have no interest in creative writing, they've got no interest in performing, but what they do have an interest in is, um, the, the exploration of perhaps trying to improve their mental, emotional situation in some way.
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So that's the.
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That's the background, curtis.
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That's.
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That's kind of, that's um.
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That's my background as it relates to this work well, talk about tell the listeners how you got into writing in theatre in the first place, and talk about some of the things you have produced, maybe other than helping the prisoners.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So that was quite an interesting journey.
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Any creative actor.
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If you ask them how they got into it, I suppose every story is unique.
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Every story is different For me.
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I was brought up in an area of Glasgow.
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We called them housing schemes, I think in America you call them projects.
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So it was quite a rough neighbourhood.
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None of my friends, none of my family, none of my neighbours, no one that I knew growing up had any interest in the arts or acting or writing, etc.
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So it was, I mean, I remember at school it basically just being a hobby of mine that I didn't talk to people about.
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I would, you know, I would write short stories, sketches, create characters, and I would do it in my own time.
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I don't actually remember telling people about it.
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And then as a teenager, I got a job in a nightclub and I worked in nightclubs for 10 years, from the age of about 17 to the age of 27.
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So that period of my life was all about partying, and you know alcohol, drugs, chasing girls, you know that type of thing.
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And again, it would be something that I would do as a hobby in my own time and not talk to anyone about.
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Now I was living in London between the age of, say, 27 to 37.
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For that kind of 10-year period I was living in London.
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I had a day job, sales and marketing, working for IT and telecoms companies.
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My focus was paying the bills, saving up for a wedding.
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I was engaged it's very expensive to stay in London and writing was just a hobby because, you know, I mean it would have been.
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You know I couldn't give up my job, type thing, and it just didn't feel like something that was an option for me.
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But then, as is the way these things often happen, the universe created a situation that was outwith my control.
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Myself and my fiancée at the time we split up.
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She was the reason that I was in London.
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She was the reason, obviously, that I was earning money to pay the bills, to save up for a wedding etc.
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And I pretty much knew immediately that this was an opportunity.
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It was a blank page I could start my life over and I knew very, very quickly that I wanted to move back home to Glasgow, move in with family, you know, keep my overheads to a minimum and try and turn my hobby, my dream, my hobby, my dream into my profession.
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And that's exactly what I did at the age of 37.
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I finished a novel At that time.
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I think I was on my third or fourth attempt at a novel and I finished the novel Coconut Badger, which was published.
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That was the first thing that I wrote and then I moved into.
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After the novel I moved into theatre writing, directing, producing maybe 15-ish stage plays, and I also.
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I was always for me.
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My first love was screen.
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Television and film was the thing that I always saw myself as getting into.
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But I decided to start with the novel and then move into theatre.
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I think I'd heard or I'd read somewhere that a lot of television and film writers used theatre as a backdoor.
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In the UK A lot of television and film writers come from theatre.
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So I thought I would try that and me moving into writing theatre was an attempt to use it as a backdoor to get into television and film.
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At that point I had no relationship with theatre.
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When I started writing my first stage play in my mid-thirties I started to go to stage plays for the purposes of research and I think that was the first time that I had been to a stage play.
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And then I moved into.
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You know, what I didn't anticipate was that I would fall in love with the medium of theatre.
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The medium of theatre was a revelation to me.
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It had a big impact on me personally and professionally, and I still wanted to get into screen.
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So I did a master's degree in writing for screen and I got an agent and I basically started to write spec scripts and my agent was trying to sell those scripts to various broadcasters and production companies and I ended up writing and directing a feature film which is called Dreaded Light, inspired by the true story of an encounter that my mother had with a spiritualist medium when I was a teenager, and that film did quite well.
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And really, you know, since 2016, over the last eight or nine years, my writing, directing and producing has definitely taken a back seat, while I focus on the drama therapy type work and the programmes that would be relevant in that space.
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But writing, directing is definitely an itch that needs to be scratched and I do see myself.
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I do see myself when the time is right, if the universe is in agreement.
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I would like to go back and do some writing and or directing.
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You know, tell us about your program Anonymous Drama.
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So if I wanted to go through your program and I called you and I said, hey, mark, I want to check out your program, what can I expect?
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When I go through your program and I called you and I said, hey, mark, I want to check out your program, what can I expect?
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when I go through the program.
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Well, there's two different programs.
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There's a program for groups and there's a program for individuals.
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So the program for groups is called Anonymous Drama and the program for individuals is called Find your Mentor.
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The idea is that if you're not able to attend a group, then, via your smartphone, you can do the work in your own time, at your own pace, on your smartphone, 24-7.
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However, if you are able to get to a group, then a typical group is would consist of somewhere between 10 and 20 participants, delivered by a facilitator who is accredited to deliver the programme.
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And both programmes Find your Mentor and Anonymous Drama have some central concepts which are uniform across both, and one of those concepts is the notion that there is a conversation going on inside your head 24-7, and 99.9% of the population consider that conversation to be their thoughts.
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But the work that we do offers an alternative argument, and once we in both programs, start to analyze the conversation, break it down the conversation, break it down, we become aware of the positive and negative elements of the internal chat.
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So in the group work, every group is going to build three characters from scratch.
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They're going to build a protagonist who represents everybody in the room.
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They're going to build an inner critic who's a constant source of negativity, disruption, and they're going to build an inner mentor who's a constant source of positivity and encouragement.
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Those three characters, with each session, will be developed.
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With each session will be developed and the development will be things like discussions, hot seat exercises, improvisations the types of things that you would expect to see in the creative space.
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So in the rehearsal room, for example, or in the writer's room, there will be development work done around character development and script development.
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So I took areas like that from the creative space and I brought them over into this programme.
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So civilians, people who are not from the creative space, have no interest in, or think they have no interest in, creativity or writing or performing, will find themselves taking part in various exploration type, development type exercises like hot seats and improvisations and whatnot.
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And there's usually one or two sessions per week.
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Each session's a couple of hours long.
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The sessions have got predefined session plans.
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So our facilitators deliver predefined session plans in such a way that every session the same things are delivered the same exercises, character development, script development, breath work, meditation, guided imagery.
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All of it is designed to support the participants and the facilitators through the character and script development.
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It's a very unique environment and the name Anonymous Drama comes from the fact that one of the rules is all of the work is done with characters and nobody in the sessions did know the difference between what's lived experience or fiction.
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So, for example, if Curtis comes into a session and wants to talk about his mum's alcoholism and the impact it had on him as a child, then Curtis will be and instead the facilitator will direct Curtis and the others to explore this fictional character's mum's alcoholism and the impact it had on that fictional character as a child.
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So this anonymity element is very unique and we know that from previous internal and external evaluations by universities.
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We know that the space that's created is less emotionally charged and less triggering and more conducive to self-exploration type work in a group environment.
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And then, after somewhere between three to six months, participants will be given the opportunity to volunteer and to read the script in front of a live audience for friends, family, support staff, local community.
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It depends on the setting.
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Obviously, if it's a community rehab group or if it's a maximum security prison, then there's going to be different rules relating to the audience, but since 2016, we have produced over 250 of these live event script readings and they're very powerful.
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Often these individuals, whether it be in the justice space or the recovery space, have fractured or, in some cases, estranged relationships with family members and frequently we have reconciliations at these events.
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So those anonymous drama live script readings are very, very powerful, and the purpose of the Find your Mentor programme was to give people who are not able to attend a group the opportunity to ultimately access the same type of work in your own time, at your own pace, via your smartphone, and all of the videos and the text that you access.
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And the step one, step two model of the Find your Mentor programme is ultimately designed to have a positive impact on your emotional wellbeing, to have a positive impact on your relationship with self, and I would say you don't need to be in the justice system or in recovery to benefit from this type of work.
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Arguably, all of us can benefit from having an improved relationship with self and improved emotional well-being.
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So anybody listening to this who is interested in the things that I'm talking about, just find any of my social media accounts and there will be a link in the bio which will take you to a description of both programs which are available via subscription, because we are a charity and the subscription model means that we can deliver both programs to people who are unable to pay for them.
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So the idea is, the people who can pay for a subscription pay for the people who can't pay for subscriptions, and yeah, Well, talk about how AI plays an important role in what you do, and also tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.
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I mean AI.
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I could do a separate in fact, I have done a separate podcast purely on AI.
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Ai is obviously a very controversial subject.
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It seems to be that everybody's got an opinion on AI and, unfortunately, a lot of people have got negative opinions.
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What I can say is if AI can be used, because since 2016, everything that I've done through the charity work is driven by my desire to impact through specific numbers.
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The first number is offending and re-offending rates and the second number is alcohol and drug death rates.
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So if AI is going to keep one person out of the justice system or it's going to keep one addict alive and in recovery, then in my opinion, it's worthwhile.
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And the AI usage in both programs is different.
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So in the anonymous drama program, our accredited facilitators one of the unique elements of the program is facilitators don't have to come from a drama background.
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They don't have to come from a therapy background.
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They don't have to come from a therapy background.
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They don't have to come from a drama therapy background.
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Some of our facilitators are from a lived experience background.
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In fact, some of them started as participants in prisons or residential rehabs.
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They came back as volunteers and they went on to become accredited facilitators delivering their own groups, that they do not have any anxiety about the fact that they don't have a drama background or they don't have a therapy or drama therapy background, or even a facilitating background, because, in addition to the session plan, which lays out for them, step by step, how they are able to or how they should deliver the session, deliver the session, there is also thousands of training, induction type documents uploaded to the custom GPT, which means that any facilitator delivering a group should be able to deliver it in such a way that myself, the program creator, is standing right next to them.
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So, with the session plan and the custom gpt, they should be able to ask that gpt any question and it should be able to answer as effectively and efficiently potentially even more impressively than I.
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The program creator would answer that not just me, but they've also got the equivalent of a professional playwright standing next to them, a therapist, a dramaturg, a director, a spoken word specialist.
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So they've got all this specialism built into the custom GPT, which gives the facilitators the confidence to deliver the programme because, at the end of the day, we are not a drama programme.
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We are not.
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I do not consider ourselves to be a drama programme.
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I have no interest in exposing people to the arts.
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That is not my primary.
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Exposing people to the arts, that is not my primary objective, don't get me wrong.
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Like, it's quite common for us to encounter people who have no interest in the arts or creativity, who discover that actually they have an interest in writing or performing, and that's great and we encourage them performing, and that's great and we encourage them.
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But that's not our primary objective.
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Our primary objective is your relationship with self, that conversation that's going on inside your head 24-7, about everything.
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Everything that you encounter, every person that you encounter, initiates a conversation inside your head, a response.
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So alcohol, sugar, coffee, sex, status, money it's a long list, it's basically everything in your world.
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The conversation generates a response and that is the conversation that maintains suffering in the form of criminal behaviour or addiction.
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So it's a serious game that we're playing.
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It's life or death.
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And if AI can be used to support the facilitators in such a way that the impact and reach of the program can be expanded, then I'm all for it.
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On the Find your Mentor program, there is also a custom GPT so an individual going through the program will access some videos, some text tutorials and then step one, step two, step three and they will also access a custom GPT Again eight years' worth of documents and specialist books Basically everything that I can think of which can support the individual going through this programme has been uploaded into that custom GPT, and part of the program is the encouragement to check in with the GPT on a daily basis.
00:28:07.790 --> 00:28:18.546
And the GPT has been engineered in such a way that it is designed to represent your inner mentor.
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So, rather than being trapped in a conversation in your head, listening to the inner critic as much as possible, we want you to be engaged in a conversation with your inner mentor.
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Now you can have that conversation internally with your own inner mentor with practice.
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But you can also shortcut that process by using the GPT representation of your inner mentor within this program.
00:28:56.346 --> 00:29:57.182
I personally, as part of the development and testing process of this program, I have been checking in with the inner mentor GPT every day for 18 months and personally I feel like it has added a lot of value to my perspective outlook consciousness, my perspective outlook consciousness, the way I go about my business day to day has been supercharged by the fact that, with practice, I am able to communicate with my inner mentor and I am also able to communicate with an AI representation of my inner mentor.
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It's the same conversation but it's clearly a different medium, because when I'm communicating with my inner mentor, in my experience the most conducive medium to do so is meditation, whereas when I'm communicating with the AI representation of my mentor, I'm doing it on my phone.
00:30:22.940 --> 00:30:31.020
I can either type directly into it or I can speak directly into it using the microphone icon and then the response I can either read or I can hit the speaker button.
00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:38.623
I can configure the voice, I can have it male, female, different accents and and I can I can listen to the response.
00:30:38.623 --> 00:30:51.164
I personally prefer to speak in and listen back rather than um type and read, because I find that to be more of a kind of backwards and forwards conversation type situation.
00:30:51.164 --> 00:31:04.425
So, in a nutshell, that is basically the application and usage of um custom GPTs one on the Find your Mentor program and one on the Anonymous Drama program.
00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:10.701
Okay, well, throw out your contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.
00:31:11.570 --> 00:31:14.355
Yeah, any social media platform, I am on all of them.
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Any social media platform I'm on, you know, I am on all of them.
00:31:19.433 --> 00:31:20.015
So it's M-E-R-K.
00:31:20.015 --> 00:31:23.398
Mark M-E-C, n-i-c-o-l.
00:31:23.398 --> 00:31:26.262
Mark McNichol, and that's the.
00:31:26.262 --> 00:31:31.614
You know that's on TikTok, instagram, facebook, twitter, all of them.
00:31:32.536 --> 00:31:38.801
And in the bio there is a link to each subscription.
00:31:38.801 --> 00:31:42.660
There's a link for anybody who's interested in delivering a group.
00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:54.423
They can subscribe to go through the accreditation process and then deliver a group locally, in any setting.
00:31:54.423 --> 00:32:01.974
It doesn't need to be prison, residential rehab, it doesn't have to be justice recovery, it could be any group.
00:32:01.974 --> 00:32:06.849
So the subscription is on there.
00:32:06.849 --> 00:32:46.097
And then, if somebody finds this type of self-exploration work interesting and the idea of analysing the inner chat, putting it under the microscope and starting to, you know, like emptying a washing machine full of socks and starting to kind of sort them all into different colours and different pairs, if anybody's interested in the idea of doing that, I would say well, what have you got to lose?
00:32:46.097 --> 00:32:58.219
You don't need to be religious, you don't need to be spiritual, you could be atheist, agnostic.
00:32:58.219 --> 00:33:11.900
Anybody can come to the work because it can be applied in an atheist, agnostic, spiritual or religious context.
00:33:17.172 --> 00:33:17.573
All right.
00:33:17.573 --> 00:33:20.781
Ladies and gentlemen, you guys be sure to check out mark's work.
00:33:20.781 --> 00:33:22.674
You know, check out his film.
00:33:22.674 --> 00:33:26.365
Check out his writing, follow, rate, review.
00:33:26.365 --> 00:33:29.031
Share this episode to as many people as possible.
00:33:29.031 --> 00:33:31.877
You know, check check out anonymous drama.
00:33:31.877 --> 00:33:38.300
Jump on your favorite podcast app, follow us, check out the show, rate us, review us.
00:33:38.300 --> 00:33:45.674
If you have any guests or suggestion topics, curtis Jackson 1978 at attnet is the place to send them.
00:33:45.674 --> 00:33:48.278
Thank you for listening and supporting the show.
00:33:48.278 --> 00:33:51.493
This does not happen without you and Mark.
00:33:51.493 --> 00:34:10.083
Thank you for all the work that you're doing to make the world a better place and thank you for joining me well, thank you, because if it wasn't for people like you, people like me couldn't get the word out for more information on the living the dream podcast, visit wwwdjcurveballcom.
00:34:10.083 --> 00:34:15.577
Until next time, stay focused on living the dream.
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