WEBVTT
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:07.750
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream podcast with Curveball. if you believe you can achieve.
00:00:14.070 --> 00:00:50.399
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire. Today I am joined by author, entrepreneur and systems thinker Alex Cain. Alex is also the founder of the Philosophy, a social movement encouraging a new way of thinking about happiness, success and collective responsibility. So we're going to be talking to Alex about his story and everything that he's up to and going to be up to. So Alex, thank you for joining me.
00:00:51.659 --> 00:00:52.460
> Alex Cain>Thanks for having me.
00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:56.219
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Curtis, why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself.
00:00:57.820 --> 00:01:00.679
> Alex Cain>Well, thanks. look, I'm just a regular guy.
00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:02.520
> Alex Cain>I live, in Melbourne, Australia.
00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:29.989
> Alex Cain>brought up middle class, I guess, you know, followed the dream that everyone has of being, I guess, reasonably successful and and trying to carve out a little niche for myself in the world. And you know, I come from a background where I've taken on a few different jobs, a wide variety of careers.
00:01:30.390 --> 00:01:41.980
> Alex Cain>Previously was a private investigator, worked in a dating agency, stand up comedian. So I see my life as a bit like a Walter Mitty story.
00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:56.590
> Alex Cain>but eventually I settled on technology and I discovered the Internet back in the 90s and set up an Internet, company. And then later on that morphed into doing software development.
00:01:57.390 --> 00:02:26.150
> Alex Cain>And you know, during COVID and all of that, the business started to take off and I started to see a bit of success in that space. And as I was, I guess, climbing my little ladder of success, I looked around me and I saw a lot of people who were still doing it very tough. And I guess I found it quite difficult to see myself as successful when those around me were struggling.
00:02:26.550 --> 00:02:45.819
> Alex Cain>And it prompted me to think about, you know, what does success actually mean for, for me and for all of us. And you know, I guess that's what led me to develop, the ideas around the movement called the philosophy, and eventually to write a book. And here I am.
00:02:46.780 --> 00:02:55.740
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, do you feel like it is time for us to redefine success for us as well as, you know, the people around us?
00:02:57.349 --> 00:03:20.270
> Alex Cain>Yeah, I think success as it's been modeled to us is, is pretty hollow. you know, we, we spend our lives trying to, I, guess achieve those things that we see in the media around us. you know, we're told that make, make money, make wealth, provide for you and your family.
00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:40.250
> Alex Cain>And I get it, I get that that's what we need to do in this world. But, it just feels highly self focused. you know, I don't know that we have enough social responsibility. I don't know that we see each other as all connected.
00:03:41.050 --> 00:03:46.710
> Alex Cain>And I think that's what's lacking. You know, there's a sense that we're all in it for ourselves.
00:03:46.710 --> 00:04:21.079
> Alex Cain>And you know, I guess if you live in a capitalist society, it's all about trying be successful under the, you know, the definition of what that is today. to, to succeed and to get ahead. but I'm questioning that. And I guess all of that came from my work in the software development field where I would go into businesses and we'd analyze, you know, how the business is going, are they running efficiently? And we look at the systems and processes that were underpinning the business operations.
00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:27.720
> Alex Cain>And I guess at some point I decided I'm going to take that same skill set and apply it to society.
00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:43.360
> Alex Cain>And so I began looking at how society operates. You know, are we functioning correctly? you know, and I looked at the political system, our economic system, business success, education.
00:04:44.439 --> 00:05:30.410
> Alex Cain>And when you really start to question everything, you see how flawed things are. Now deep down we know that to be true, but we think, well, these are just big, big, big problems. You know, what can I do about it? But I think the point of this is that we need to start questioning things and we need to say, is this the best that we can do and is this all we really want for ourselves? You know, we're born, we grow up, we get educated, we go to work, we amass our wealth and then we die. And is that really the point of life? Is that really all there is? And I'm saying no, I don't think so. I think there could be more. And so far, I think it's a missed opportunity for us.
00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:38.180
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, tell the listeners about the, philosophy that you found. You know, explain it.
00:05:40.120 --> 00:07:11.110
> Alex Cain>Yeah, well, I guess the philosophy is my observation of a world gone a little bit crazy, and my attempt to find a resolution for it. and it begins with, I guess there's four relationships that I talk about in the book. and if we understand those, then we start to have a deeper appreciation for why we're even here, which helps to answer some of those bigger questions. So our first relationship is with the universe. And by that I mean the fact that we're here and nature has given us the ability to live in the way that we do, which so many of us just take for granted. You know, you look at the conditions that needed to be right for life to even exist is phenomenal. And then to develop to the point where we are, the organisms that we are, with the abilities that we have is an amazing thing that many of us don't even think about when we're just busy in the hustle and bustle of daily life. And I'm m saying we need to bring ourselves back to that. Because when we can start to feel that awe and fascination with the world, then we're no longer becoming jaded and, and start, you know, and taking things for granted. And I think that's partly what's missing. We're just so used to everything being so available to us. And, you know, sophistication is better than simplicity.
00:07:11.509 --> 00:07:20.990
> Alex Cain>And I think we're missing something there. So that appreciation for the natural world, the second relationship is our relationship with ourselves.
00:07:21.550 --> 00:08:03.910
> Alex Cain>So once we start to see the context that we live in within the natural world, then we have to look inwards and think about, okay, well, you know, I might think that everything that I think is reality, but effectively it's only my reality. You know, how well do I understand my thought patterns, my triggers, my filters, the way I view the world through my lenses that I've come to wear, through my upbringing, all my influences. And so it's bringing that awareness to ourselves so that we can actually intervene sometimes. And because we're a lot of the time we're running on autopilot.
00:08:03.910 --> 00:08:29.079
> Alex Cain>We're just programs that are running based on all the legacy that we've got incumbent on us. And we don't even stop to question whether it's right because we believe it to be right under our reality, which we believe to be the, the reality. So that's the second relationship. The third relationship is our relationship with our inner circle. And that's friends, family, and people that we deal with.
00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.119
> Alex Cain>Now. We often treat them the poorest.
00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:37.879
> Alex Cain>You know, we often sometimes treat strangers better than we treat people that we're connected to.
00:08:38.359 --> 00:09:10.120
> Alex Cain>And I think that could relate back to the filters that we have and how we view other people around us. We've made up our mind that, this is how they are, or this is how they deserve to be treated. And often the foundations that underpin those thoughts can be flawed because we've made some assumptions. And so coming back to that awareness from the second relationship, we then are able to apply that to those more closer relationships. The final relationship is our relationship to community.
00:09:11.149 --> 00:10:38.169
> Alex Cain>A community could be someone who lives at the end of your street that you've never met before because they don't fit into the comfortable group of people that you would normally associate with. It might also be someone on the other side of the world. And I think we've lost that, I guess the quote of song, that loving feeling, of how we are all connected by an invisible thread called humanity. And we just, you know, come home from work, we drive into our garage, we lock the doors, turn on our security cameras, and we live in our little silos. And we've lost that connection that we used to have in the old village. You know, we don't associate with people in the same way we used to. The village has now migrated online, and I think something's been lost in that. And so if we can connect with those four relationships, we can start to see the world a little bit differently. And. And then we can question things and say, well, under these four relationships, is what I'm thinking, doing or living aligned with the true north of those feelings? Or am I actually being pulled to magnetic north, which is kind of a distraction because of pressures from making money or politics or other agendas? And it's that clarity that, I'm hoping the philosophy can bring to people.
00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:41.929
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's talk about our current education system.
00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:49.129
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Do you feel like it is simply a throwback to the industrial revolution and a missed opportunity for leveling up?
00:10:50.330 --> 00:11:14.549
> Alex Cain>Absolutely. I mean, it's an old, system that came about because we needed to produce more to create greater productivity and gdp. And so we put people through a mass production system to get out as many as we could into the workforce to generate money for the economy.
00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:35.470
> Alex Cain>And for me, that is a missed opportunity because we fail to see the individuals in that system. we continue to operate under it, and all we're doing now is pushing people through that system. You know, things are better in some respects. You know, there are different types of schools that take a different approach.
00:11:35.629 --> 00:12:05.519
> Alex Cain>You know, like, Montessori is more individualized, but for the most part, a lot of schools are just getting people through the system. You know, there's not much listening to the individual's needs. There's, there's a curriculum that has to be followed and met in order for you to pass and get out at the end with a ticket. And I think it does nothing to find joy for an individual or to tap into who they really are.
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:06.340
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Ah.
00:12:06.340 --> 00:13:04.370
> Alex Cain>And I propose in the book that, rather than schools being institutions for learning subject matter, they become incubators to actually nurture great human beings and by that I mean that we should introduce those, the teachings of values like respect, empathy and gratitude throughout a child's schooling life, from preschool right through to graduation at, age appropriate and culturally appropriate ways, so that by the time they come out of school at the end, they are, ah, people of substance. They haven't just learned maths and science, they've actually learned how to be human and how to respect other people. And if you imagine that that could happen over generations and all over the world, what a change we would have in the population.
00:13:07.090 --> 00:13:20.960
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's talk about homeless and poverty. You know, things, those two things we can solve tomorrow. But do you feel like we really want to, or, is there enough effort to be made to solve those two issues?
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:40.210
> Alex Cain>Well, you know, I think out of the current system that we have, where everyone's in it for themselves, it's unlikely. And I believe, you know, we continue to treat the symptoms rather than the cause. So as you rightly say, Curtis, we could solve these things tomorrow.
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:57.809
> Alex Cain>But do we want to? Now I know there are people who want to, but, do we all, as a collective want to fix this? And the problem is that the, the power brokers and the people who have the ability to make change are driven by other things.
00:13:59.090 --> 00:14:45.919
> Alex Cain>you know, is, is I don't see homelessness as a, ah, housing problem. You know, we, we could build houses tomorrow. I see homelessness as a people problem and I don't mean it the homeless themselves. I mean us as decision makers and the ability to actually make it a priority. Because again, under the philosophy where you respect all human life, how would you ever allow anyone to live out on the street? A way that is, you know, we would walk past them and think, there but for the grace of God go I. But that's not good enough. You know, and it's not even about just giving them a meal or giving them money.
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:58.679
> Alex Cain>and I don't even like using the term homelessness or homeless because they're not a collective group of people who are homeless. They are all individual people and each person has their own life story.
00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:27.679
> Alex Cain>And you know, many of us will walk past, we won't engage, we won't talk to them because we're fearful. And yet, you know, a lot of them probably would love to have a conversation more than anything. and I think we don't, we just don't go there. And the same with poverty. We could solve it tomorrow. We don't have a wealth problem. There is, you know, we live in such an Abundant world right now. And yet we choose not to solve poverty.
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:39.679
> Alex Cain>And you have to ask yourself, why? Why aren't we doing that? Because it's a distribution problem. And a distribution of wealth comes from the choice not to distribute it.
00:15:40.318 --> 00:16:07.929
> Alex Cain>And so these are the things that I don't think we're going to solve under the current paradigm of continuing to treat. Yes, you know, we can give to charity, we can, but that's just enabling it to continue. You know, it's like saying, you know, let's not solve poverty, but let's create charities and wealthy people can give to them. And that's, to me, is a symptomatic response. I think we can do a lot better.
00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:22.039
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, what if we didn't have to work? You know, I'm sure a lot of people out there thinking, about this question, like, yes, but what if we didn't have to work? What would our lives be like?
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.480
> Alex Cain>Well, yeah, if you get back. I mean, my opening line is in the book is what's the point? What's the point of life?
00:16:29.559 --> 00:17:03.259
> Alex Cain>Is the point of life to work six days a week, five days a week, whatever it is? I don't think so. I think if you get back to, you know, what should life look like for us? I think we should be leveled up by now. We should be, achieving other things. So work, in the sense that we think about it, is, you know, usually equates to paid job or something like that. And I'm saying maybe we need a new currency now so that, you know, it's not about money, it's about contribution.
00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:59.431
> Alex Cain>So work isn't necessarily that. I go to an office from 9 to 5, I do my job, and then I go home again. Maybe, you know, contribution to society, looking after our elders, volunteering, contributing in other ways should also be deemed worthy of receiving some kind of remuneration. So, you know, the question about, work, I think we need to redefine what that means in the, in the form of, of contribution. So if you look at the animal kingdom, you know, you'll see birds foraging around all day looking for food, looking for seeds, whatever they can do so that they can sustain themselves. Now, if you think about it, we're not that different, but instead of going out looking for food, we go out to work to earn the money to get the food.
00:18:00.070 --> 00:18:34.401
> Alex Cain>We're still out there doing the foraging, but we're just doing it through a different method. So we, we're really not that different. And again, I believe by now we should have Leveled up, we should be finding ways to find joy in our life. Now, if I wanted to just, you know, paint all day or write songs that gives me joy, I don't have the ability to do that. I still have to go and get a job, to do something, to bring the money in to feed myself, to have a roof over my head and that. Even that phrase, earn a living.
00:18:35.131 --> 00:18:49.691
> Alex Cain>You think about it, you're born through no choice of your own. You come into this world and you're now lumbered with the need to go to work so that you can just survive, right? Earn a living means you're earning your life.
00:18:50.411 --> 00:19:18.661
> Alex Cain>And for me it's like, okay, surely by now we should have found a way that we can have our basic survival needs taken care of. And from there, that's the base that we should start from. So if I want to do something creative that gives me joy and maybe brings joy to others, I should be able to do that. Not because it's going to be a commercial success, but because it's joyful. And imagine a world full of joyful people.
00:19:19.221 --> 00:19:27.290
> Alex Cain>And so I talk in the book about, you know, ideas of how to achieve this. And one of them is something called a universal basic income.
00:19:27.911 --> 00:19:47.990
> Alex Cain>And that's where every person receives a very basic level of income just to cover basic needs. Food, shelter, clothing, that sort of thing. And then from there, you've got choices. You can choose, do I want to not work full time? Maybe I just want to work part time now.
00:19:48.310 --> 00:19:53.980
> Alex Cain>So a basic level of income is not going to give you a, great life, but it's going to allow you to survive.
00:19:54.580 --> 00:20:03.300
> Alex Cain>And I think that's what we need as a flaw. We need that as at the basic level. Now, if you want to work more, you can achieve more and do more.
00:20:03.701 --> 00:20:14.820
> Alex Cain>If you choose that you want to just volunteer, maybe you want to look after your elderly parents, or you want to, you know, volunteer, then you've got those options, you've got those choices available to do that.
00:20:15.461 --> 00:21:08.871
> Alex Cain>Now, I'm not against, you know, some of the benefits that capitalism brings, like innovation and, you know, we, we move ahead but worry that there are negative things that come along with it. And I think if we start to look at, if we question everything and we just pretend, let's say we were building society from scratch, we weren't trying to patch it up and stick a band aid on it here and there, but we said if we were building it new today, how would we do it? And I'm suggesting we would have to think differently enough to come up with those ideas and shake off the current ideas that we operate under and say, well, what do we really want? And I guess that's all I'm really saying in the book is, you know, what do we really want and how can we even start to try and achieve it?
00:21:10.550 --> 00:21:14.951
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Do you feel like helping others can be selfishly good for us?
00:21:16.951 --> 00:22:25.840
> Alex Cain>Well, absolutely. It's been proven that, you know, if you're, if you're depressed, for instance, the way that one of the ways to get out of that is by helping other people, you start to take the focus off yourself and you put it onto others. And you know, that helps you get out of sometimes that funk because you put a higher level of importance on something outside yourself and that focus, you know, goes there. Now another way I think about it is, you know, if you're, let's say you're doing really well, you've got a big house and you're, you know, you're very successful, but other people around you are doing it tough, does it make sense that you just stay on your path and keep striving for your goal and you know, don't worry about everyone else? And I'm saying no, because you know, you could have your best life, but then, you know, those around you who were doing it tough out of desperation might still be breaking into houses and you know, committing crimes and things like that, just to get by.
00:22:27.431 --> 00:22:57.851
> Alex Cain>so if they were doing better, then there's every potential that, you know, you may not be affected by a break in or a crime or something happening to you. So helping others will help you as well. Because that sense of community where we're all in this together, we don't experience that now, you know, we'd like to think, you know, everyone's equal, but we know some, people are just more equal than others.
00:22:58.490 --> 00:23:06.681
> Alex Cain>And there's a problem in that. And because it breeds divisiveness, it breeds you know, us versus them mentality.
00:23:07.310 --> 00:23:12.590
> Alex Cain>And you just have to look around the world today to see what happens as a result of that.
00:23:13.070 --> 00:23:29.871
> Alex Cain>You know, when you see politicians treating, this is my country versus your country. I'm only going to do what's good for me. Well, you know, how does that, how does that play out, when we're all humans and we're all just trying to get by and do the best that we can.
00:23:30.030 --> 00:24:19.121
> Alex Cain>So, and I talk in the book about that too, you know, so many of man made constructs, money is A man made construct country borders are man made constructs. We've created them and you know, they, they can be tools, but they can also be used to divide us. you know, the life of someone in Texas versus Mexico, they're only meters away from each other and yet their lives can be completely different. Or, you know, the idea of money, that some people can have a lot of it, other people have not much of it. And yet money is something that only exists because we've all agreed it holds value. It's just plastic and paper. if we didn't agree that that holds value anymore, it wouldn't. And yet how much happens in the world because of money?
00:24:19.601 --> 00:24:24.641
> Alex Cain>So if we can construct these things, we can also deconstruct them too.
00:24:26.971 --> 00:24:31.371
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.
00:24:33.131 --> 00:24:52.931
> Alex Cain>Well, thanks, Curtis. It's. Look, the, the book for me has been, quite the journey. It began with just a few ideas and I didn't even plan to write a book, to be honest. The funny thing is I don't even read books. even when I was at school, I paid my sister 50 cents to read them and tell me what they were about.
00:24:53.090 --> 00:25:23.800
> Alex Cain>So the idea of even writing a book was completely foreign to me. But it just came that, you know, I needed to get these ideas down and documented and hence the book came about from it. But, the book is really a conversation starter for me. It's not about selling lots of books. It's about opening doors and having those conversations getting people to start thinking differently about this. And so as a result of that, I've actually, built a community platform where people can join.
00:25:24.201 --> 00:25:36.080
> Alex Cain>There's no cost to join and you know, join some of these conversations and discussion groups about some of these topics because it is, about a conversation. It's, it's not, it's not a lecture.
00:25:36.560 --> 00:25:55.611
> Alex Cain>And I don't claim to have all the answers to everything. What I'm trying to do is just raise lots of questions and get those conversations going so people can find out more information about the movement, the book and the platform. just go to the philosophy.net and you can find it all there.
00:25:57.211 --> 00:26:03.171
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, that was my next question. Your website. So the philosophy.net close us out with.
00:26:03.171 --> 00:26:03.691
> Alex Cain>That's it.
00:26:04.730 --> 00:26:11.770
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on or any final thoughts you have for the listeners.
00:26:13.211 --> 00:27:23.691
> Alex Cain>Well, yeah, look, all I would say to people is, you know, think about your life, think about your loved ones and ask yourself the question is, is everything great? Is this the best that we can do? Now, you know, if you. If you're asking, what could I do? You know, I'm just a small fish in a huge ocean. What can I do? Well, I look at things like, me, too. Black Lives Matter. And I look at movements where it started with one or two people just standing up and then other people following, and that creates a wave. And, you know, I think we need to all stand up. If you feel that this is not good enough, you need to say something, you know, otherwise, we're enabling it to continue. Now, some simple, small gestures people can make is go and meet your neighbors. Go and talk to people in your village. You know, you'd be surprised when you speak to people that you haven't spoken to before who you know may live only a few feet away from you.
00:27:24.090 --> 00:27:47.101
> Alex Cain>You'd be surprised to find out their lives and what they're going through and build some strong bonds. I know. I've seen it happen in my neighborhood as well. Meeting new people who, you know, for a while, maybe you just pass by them, but you. You go and talk to them, and you find out things, and you build, friendships or you find ways to help other people who may be in, you know, in need of help.
00:27:47.691 --> 00:28:16.951
> Alex Cain>go and meet your neighbors, talk to people. you know, there is a Neighbor Day, a National Neighbor Day. I know we have one here in Australia, and I know it happens in the US Too. So maybe go and connect in with that as well. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is, you know, let's pause and reflect on where we're at and just see if maybe we can do better and better. usually in my vocabulary means thinking just outside ourselves.
00:28:19.351 --> 00:28:50.000
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>All right, ladies and gentlemen, be sure to visit Alex's website, the philosophy.net check out his book follow rate review Share this episode to as many people as possible. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform and visit www.craveball337.com for more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast. Thank you for listening and supporting the show, and Alex, thank you for all that you do, and thank you for joining me.
00:28:51.121 --> 00:28:52.721
> Alex Cain>Thanks, Curtis. It's been great.
00:28:53.361 --> 00:29:06.191
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.craveballballball337.com until next time, keep Living the dream.