Sept. 25, 2025
Parenting in the Modern Age: Dr. David Marcus on Building Better Connections with Kids
Send us a text In this thought-provoking episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we sit down with Dr. David Marcus, a seasoned clinical psychologist and author, to discuss the complexities of parenting in today's fast-paced society. With over 40 years of experience, Dr. Marcus shares his insights on the challenges parents face, from the impact of social media to the importance of effective communication with children. He emphasizes the need for parents to develop emotional language skills...
In this thought-provoking episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we sit down with Dr. David Marcus, a seasoned clinical psychologist and author, to discuss the complexities of parenting in today's fast-paced society. With over 40 years of experience, Dr. Marcus shares his insights on the challenges parents face, from the impact of social media to the importance of effective communication with children. He emphasizes the need for parents to develop emotional language skills and how their own upbringing influences their parenting styles. Dr. Marcus introduces his upcoming book, "Parent Rx," which offers practical examples and strategies for fostering healthy communication between parents and children. Listeners will learn about the significance of being a "soothing presence," the process of emptying out emotions, and how to cultivate resilience in children. Join us for an enlightening conversation that provides valuable tools for parents looking to navigate the nuances of modern parenting and strengthen their family bonds.
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23:15 - (Cont.) Parenting in the Modern Age: Dr. David Marcus on Building Better Connections with Kids
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream podcast with Curveball. if you believe you can achieve.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Today, I am joined by author David Marcus. And what we're going to be talking about is parenting in today's society. You know, we parent based off what we learned from our, parents, but that might not work with today, today's issues.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>So he's going to basically be trying to tell you how to communicate with your kids better in today's time, and we're going to be talking to him about any and everything that he's going to be up to in the future. So, David, thank you so much for joining me today.
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> David Marcus>Thank you for having me, Chris. I appreciate it.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?
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> David Marcus>Well, I have a doctorate in clinical psychology.
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> David Marcus>I've had a private practice for 40 years specializing, in families under stress.
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> David Marcus>And what I've learned, of course, this is not a surprise to anybody, but poor communication is definitely part of families under stress, you know.
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> David Marcus>And, so I've specialized in helping parents, and spouses, you know, to communicate well with one another. And what seems to get in the way of that, and especially how to communicate with their children or how to actually develop a way of communicating with their children, because that's a skill.
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> David Marcus>I tell parents that, you know, children often make the, Children. Parents often make the assumption that because their child is bright or has a good vocabulary, that they have an emotional language, and that's a bad assumption to make. And emotional language comes to practice, typically with the parents.
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> David Marcus>So the parents have to know how to promote that.
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> David Marcus>I'm sure, many parents out there have said to their young child, don't hit your brother. Use your words.
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> David Marcus>And I'll, I'll share a little anecdote with you, but I tell a little bit more about myself.
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> David Marcus>psychology is what I do, but, music is what I love to do. Okay, just for your listeners to know, I, I've been playing guitar, mandolin, banjo. I play Celtic music, and I love doing that. I'm in different bands here in Cincinnati, and I do that.
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> David Marcus>and that's a joy for me.
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> David Marcus>I collected instruments over the years that I really love, and that's really kind of my therapy, you know, to sit and play music and sing. it's something I really love to do.
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> David Marcus>It's sort of my best way of expressing myself.
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> David Marcus>So, Just your audience knows I'm not just Dr. Marcus, like what that, you know, that says about me.
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> David Marcus>I, started early in my career, doing a lot of work with families under stress because the kids really needed an advocate, to tell you the truth. court cases, custody cases, parent alienation cases, reintegration therapy. It's very difficult and very stressful work. But the kids really needed an advocate with the court. So I've taken on that work. And, now that I'm 75 years old, I'm backing off from that work because it's so stressful. I'm heading toward retirement. But, I did that for many, many years. And again, you know, it, it, it really shows how poorly people can communicate with one another and what happens over. Over time when, when that occurs. So I see children, I see their parents. I never see children without seeing their parents because I tell parents that, look, I am not the agent of change here. You are. I'm just temporary. And the idea of coming to see me is to learn the skills on how to communicate with each other and with your children. And then once you have that, you know, the idea of coming to see me is to get rid of me. Once you have access to your children's emotionality and to each other's emotionality, you don't need me anymore. You've got the skills that you need.
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> David Marcus>And that's what I've been specializing that's come out with a book on, ah, it's called Parent Rx, like Parent Prescription.
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> David Marcus>hopefully it'll come out within the year where I give examples of how parents and children talk to one another. Parent says, child says, parents as child said.
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> David Marcus>And I annotated saying this is what you're accomplishing when you say this. So when you phrase things like that and based on the age of the child, what you need to do, you know, there's.
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> David Marcus>There's a lot to that, Curtis. So, that's something about myself, you know. Where would you like to go from here?
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>well, I would like for you to talk about best practice tips and how parents can better communicate with their kids in today's time.
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> David Marcus>Okay, well, let's start with the second part of that. In today's time, because you're correct, it's different than it was like when I was a child, for instance.
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> David Marcus>And that's because of social media, a lack of play time. You know, it used to be you can go out on the street and play with your friends. Now everything's a play date.
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> David Marcus>screens. Children are addicted to screens.
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> David Marcus>Parents bring their work home with them because you can never get away from the laptop or the cell phone. So where's your time to sit down with your children when you're working from home? Just the other pressures of. Financial pressures.
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> David Marcus>That's why we have mostly two income families.
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> David Marcus>In the old times, usually it was mom who was at home and, you know, she would spend time with the children.
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> David Marcus>now it's very hard. It's very, very difficult. everybody needs two incomes just to maintain a lifestyle these days, for instance.
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> David Marcus>So there's. And then the kids themselves are inundated with all this, you know, media and screens. And it really has an impact on their socialization because they're not getting a whole lot just talking through a screen or on a phone.
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> David Marcus>So those are some of the pressures that parents are under. And, you know, as you said earlier, you know, you know, we typically parent the way we were parented, good or ill, of course, and that doesn't really fit these days. You know, there's some important things to realize about how we were parented. Some of it may be cultural.
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> David Marcus>You know, the British stiff upper lip. We don't talk about emotions, for instance, you know, or, you know, the big fat Greek wedding where every. There's no boundaries with it whatsoever. You know, everybody talks about everything.
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> David Marcus>So, part of it might be sociological, but a lot of it is familial. And one of the things that I emphasize with parents, especially in high stress situations is one of the things that children pick up from their parents is how to react to stress.
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> David Marcus>All right? it's almost. It's called. The process is called internalization, Curtis.
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> David Marcus>It's almost like subliminal learning. It's not like somebody sits you down when you're 16 and says, this is how you're going to react to stress. No, no, you see how your parents do. And if your parents aggress to stress, for instance, you know, they spank or whatever it might be, or abuse their children. The irony here is that, you know, an abused child often becomes an abusive parent. Why?
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> David Marcus>Because what they've internalized on this almost subliminal level, it's not like, you know, it's just in. There is stress causes me to aggress.
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> David Marcus>And they'll swear in all conscious, in all honesty, that they would never do to their own children what happened to them. And yet in those moments of stress, when we regress back to those internalized responses, they hit.
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> David Marcus>And this is how Things get passed down from generation to generation.
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> David Marcus>Now the more positive side of that is you can, you don't have to do that. You know, if, you know, I teach parents how to, you know, what I go over with them, what they've internalized and what they go do when they get stressed. And we try to modify that for the sake of their children. Okay.
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> David Marcus>Other things, you know, parents, that's the obvious example. But there are things that certainly get in the way of parents communicating with their children other than the obvious, like, you know, being aggressive. Parents try to do something called, well, we all know this phrase, make my child feel better. Well, how do we do that? Well, some parents will change the topic, redirect their children.
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> David Marcus>Often what we do is we cut into what they're saying to us and say, oh, I went through that myself and this is what I did. Just do this and you'll feel all better.
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> David Marcus>Well, I'll personalize this for a second and show you why it doesn't work. As adults, we typically have certain people that we turn to when we're upset or need to talk. Family and friends, but only certain people. And invariably the people that we trust to do that are okay when we're not okay.
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> David Marcus>You know, the, you know, if you went up to somebody as an adult and started telling them, hey, this is what's going on. This is really hard for me.
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> David Marcus>And they cut in really quickly. They say, oh, here's the solution to your problem. I went through this, just do it this way and you feel all better.
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> David Marcus>Well, my guess is if you, if it was a good friend, you'd say to them, just hear me out. Because we need to get it from in here inside of us to out here where we can look at it, you know, so that cuts off that process. Now if, if it wasn't a good friend, what you probably do is say thank you and go find a good friend. I mean, you know, and yet we do this with our children all the time. And the difference is, is you don't expect a five or six year old to say, hey, mom, will you just shut up and listen to me. They're not going to do that. They're little, you're big. So they clam up. And parents think, okay, because they're quiet. Now, I think we resolve this one. And then three days later something happens and the child reacts the same exact way. I thought we talked about this. No, you didn't.
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> David Marcus>Okay, there's a term that I use that's also in the book that describes this, it's called a soothing presence. And this really relates to what you were saying earlier about today's times. Like I just explained, the people that you turn to are definitely good listeners who are okay no matter what we say, you know, and so gives us the opportunity to talk about it, look at it ourselves, not just suggest a solution.
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> David Marcus>And from that process we can get to the point where we can start talking about a solution. But until we're emptied out, which is another term that I'll explain it, it won't work. People are not ready to hear it. You know, the person who's upset is not ready to hear it. So how do you do that?
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> David Marcus>Well, I, reason I use the term soothing presence rather than soothing person is for the very reason that you said earlier. Because you can try to be calm and a good listener, but if you're under financial stress, or you're fighting with your wife, or you're, you know, when you've got trauma going on in your whole life, your own life, it's very, very hard to focus on what your child's difficulty is at that moment, you know, and you're probably in a, in a regressed place where you go back to your internalized responses, which could be not just aggression, but, you know, getting very sad or, just ignoring it, or saying, I can't handle this right now. And all these different ways that we have.
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> David Marcus>So this is what I try to help parents to understand. We first have to deal with what you've internalized from your own upbringing and then create some new skills. Become soothing presence, not only for your children, but for each other.
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> David Marcus>Because that'll help you to be a soothing presence for your children. That's. This is the reason why I never see children without seeing their parents. I am not the agent of change, they are. And they need to be able to, you know, get this presence of mind as much as anything else. It's not just techniques. Designing your environment so that you can soothe yourself, soothe your spouse, and soothe your children.
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> David Marcus>So where, what would be next, Curtis? What would you want to ask me?
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's flip the question around and talk about best practice tips on helping kids communicate with their parents.
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> David Marcus>Okay, let's do that.
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> David Marcus>This, the process of developing what I call a common emotional language begins very, very early.
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> David Marcus>Anybody who has children knows that children, young children, you know, two, three, four years old, they express themselves, their emotions, behaviorally. Like I said, parents are. Don't let your brother use your words.
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> David Marcus>Well, how do you develop. Help the child to develop the capacity to use his words. That's a skill that's just not there. You have to have an emotional language. Little children, you know, they'll go, what does that mean?
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> David Marcus>Right? You know, because they don't have the words. I'll share with you this.
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> David Marcus>I was seeing two boys, a seven and a nine year old.
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> David Marcus>And I just finished seeing them and they were sitting in my waiting room right outside my office door. And I was briefly talking to their mom.
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> David Marcus>And all of a sudden we hear a scuffle and we get up and we go out and the nine year old's holding his arm like this with tears in his eyes and the seven year old is looking really guilty. And mom, and I'm observing this because I'm a psychologist, of course, and the mom says, what happened?
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> David Marcus>And the older boy said, he bit me and he picked up his shirt and he had teeth marks on his, on his, on his arm. And I felt really bad for the mom because here she is in the child psychologist's office and her kids are biting one another, you know, so, you know, she turned to the seven year old and said, I told you to use your words. And he looked at her in all innocence and said, I don't know how.
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> David Marcus>And I turned to mom and said, that's what we need to work on. He doesn't have an emotional language. How do you develop an emotional language? Well, with young children, and most therapists know this, you start, with may, perhaps with pictures, for instance, happy faces, sad faces, everything like this. And then you have them label those happy, sad, mad. And then you bring up things that perhaps the parents have brought up with you and says, well, what hap. What face are you? And mommy and daddy argue, you know, point to either the angry face or the sad face, or both. What word can we put to that, you know, and besides just happy and sad and you know, and I'll say, okay, how, how angry did it make you? With little children, I'll use my hands because they express themselves behaviorally and I'll widen my hands this much, this much, this much, you know, and more and more. And what amazes me at little children can touch their hands behind their back. I think it would break our back to try to do that as adults. That's how much I get angry. Like.
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> David Marcus>So I said, let's put a word to that, you know, with the older children, by the way, I'll use a scale of 1 to 10.
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> David Marcus>So I had one boy who was, I think he was 7 and he was old enough to use the 1 to 10 scale.
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> David Marcus>And I said, okay, tell me something that happens that makes you only mad to a one. And he went, well, when my mom makes me eat my peas.
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> David Marcus>Okay, what gives you a ten?
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> David Marcus>Oh, when they're fighting and I try to stop them and they yell at me, okay, how mad is that?
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> David Marcus>That's. That's volcano mad, Dr.
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> David Marcus>Marcus. I love that term, volcano, man. It was a good one. From then on in, when we talked about these things, I would ask him, was that eat your peas mad or volcano mad? And he loved that because those were his words. You know, we can't assume that children will express their emotions the same way that we will.
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> David Marcus>Okay. I developed a game to help children to do this. You know, the young children again, because little children, especially little boys, they like to express themselves behaviorally and they really want to show you how strong they are as part of self esteem. Look how strong I am, you know, Dr.
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> David Marcus>Marcus. So I got a softball and I had a blank wall in my office. And we. I invented a game called mad ball. And parents can do this. And I've already talked to the parents about the things that make the boy angry. For instance, you know, I'll say, okay, Johnny, take the ball.
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> David Marcus>Tell me something that makes you angry, and throw the ball into the wall as hard as you want. Now, it's a soft ball, so it's not going to destroy my wall, of course, but it's a ball that makes a nice slap sound just to give some feedback. And he'll say something and I'll go, how mad did I make you?
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> David Marcus>And he'll come up with words like, I just said, wow, that's really mad. And without.
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> David Marcus>Now it's my turn, and I will take something that the parents said and personal answer. Well, when my parents used to make me go to my room, when I didn't, my brother did something bad, which is something that happened to this boy. I got really mad and I throw the ball and. And the boy would laugh, you know. Oh, yeah, me too. Me too. Dr. Marcus.
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> David Marcus>Through processes like this process, like telling stories, you know, showing pictures of relationships, and the boy tells a story and you can see the family dynamics. And finally they'll say, that boy is me.
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> David Marcus>You have to understand that this is part of play therapy. And the purpose of play therapy is it helps children to talk in the third person.
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> David Marcus>When you ask a child what's bothering you when they're young, when they repeat it to you, they re experience it in its original intensity and they shut down.
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> David Marcus>But if they can talk in the third person, like this person in the story or this person in the dollhouse or picture they may draw, it's easier for them to express these things. And again, you're encouraging this by mirroring back what you hear and saying, is that close? Is there anything more? You help the child to develop a language that is in common with you as the parent.
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> David Marcus>This starts at an early age. And what it leads to is a child being able to feel safe to tell the parent what's bothering them, emptying this out, which is a process that I should explain to you more. And then.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Yeah, that, that before you go. That was going to be the next question.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Talking about being filled up and emptied out process.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>So, yeah, just go ahead and go into it.
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> David Marcus>Okay, I will do that. Because you're correct. If you don't understand that, you're kind of at a loss.
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> David Marcus>Okay, this is, this is the explanation.
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> David Marcus>What do I mean by being filled up? Well, Curtis, we all. This is how I explain it to the parents. We all have a emotional space within us. And typically when we think of emotions, we point to our chest, our heart, you know, but obviously it's actually connections in our brain. And people ought to know that most of the associations in your brain are emotional. They're not logical. But we don't like to think of ourselves as illogical. But that's, that's the truth. So.
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> David Marcus>And this space can become filled up. And what fills it up is intense emotion. Anxiety, fear, anger. In fact, in little children it can be intense glee from, getting this little toy that they got. You know, it's the intensity of the emotion that fills us up. And what I want to explain is what happens when we get filled up with intense emotion. Firstly, we know when we're filled up. We have phrases that describe it. Phrases like I've had it up to here or the straw that broke the camel's back. We know when we're filled up.
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> David Marcus>And what do we experience when we're filled up? Well, it's uncomfortable. It's intense.
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> David Marcus>Sometimes we feel like we're not in control of our emotions. And that can be anxiety provoking or even scary.
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> David Marcus>So what do we do? This is just human nature. Now what do we do? We focus inwardly on how we feel and try to do something about it. Now, what we do about it can vary in a hundred ways. We may try to go to somebody and get it off our chest, for instance, or we may journal or we may watch TV to try to take our minds off it or go for a run to just get the energy out for it. You know, you. You know, you can name it. You know what I mean, what we do. But the important point here is that when we're filled up, we are focused inwardly to try to deal with how we're feeling.
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> David Marcus>And so, by definition, we're not focused outwardly on what people are saying to us.
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> David Marcus>A person can give the most logical coach and explanation for why you shouldn't feel the way you do. And those people don't hear it because they're not ready to hear it. They're still filled up. They need to be emptied m out, which I'll get into in a moment. A good example of this is. I don't know if you've ever heard the term a blinding rage. Have you ever heard of that term, Curtis?
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Absolutely.
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> David Marcus>okay. A blinding rage. That's really a good descriptor of what I'm talking about. When somebody is so filled up with anger, they're virtually blind to what anybody's telling them. All right?
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> David Marcus>You know, and the child is. We call it a tantrum.
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> David Marcus>Okay? And they need to be emptied out, too. But doing it with a child is different than doing it with an adult. But, okay, this, this. This is where the explanations come in.
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> David Marcus>Okay, first. But you're right.
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> David Marcus>So what happens is the person who's so filled up will hear maybe that 5% of what the other person is saying that somehow supports their rage, and they get angrier. Or maybe it's even their tone of voice that offends them and they get angrier. And if, this becomes a pattern, then the person who's trying to explain things finally throws up their hands and say, I can't talk to you. You're impossible. And that's where the walls begin to build between couples.
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> David Marcus>For instance, with children, if. If that kind of thing happens, you know, the parents filled up and they explode on the child. For instance, you know, the child doesn't feel safe to talk to the parent anymore.
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> David Marcus>You know, they're afraid of the reaction. You know, little children, they turn to their parents to see how to react to things, and they also turn to them because, children are geared.
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> David Marcus>Younger children before the age of, like, seven, no, for the age of maybe eight or nine, actually, they're geared to please their parents. So when they please you, it makes them feel good about themselves.
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> David Marcus>Now, that changes in tweens and teenagers where they don't give a darn about how you feel about them. They only care about themselves and their friends. But before that, children are geared to please their parents so that they feel good about themselves, which makes them susceptible.
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> David Marcus>If the parent is not pleased with them, then it hurts them, it hurts their self esteem.
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> David Marcus>It makes it unsafe to talk. In high conflict cases where the parents are fighting, you know, the parents don't like each other. You know, the child finds themselves, oh, I had a really good time with daddy.
00:25:34.721 --> 00:25:48.161
> David Marcus>And mommy gets really mad at him. Oh, you know, daddy's this and daddy's that. The child realizes he can't talk to mom m about how he loves his father because mom doesn't, you know, she gets upset and he needs mom to be okay.
00:25:48.881 --> 00:26:15.270
> David Marcus>When this continues, what the child does is take on a role, of the pleaser, the placator, the appeaser, you know, so trying to get their parents to be okay, stop fighting, you know, or they try to entertain their parents. Look what I can do, mommy, you know, just to try to make her feel better, to please her. But that's really unhealthy for a child because it's a role. They're not being themselves.
00:26:15.671 --> 00:26:27.000
> David Marcus>It's a role. And that role can actually continue into adulthood. Okay? And that's not a good thing. I've seen adults who've gone through that and they describe themselves as having what's called an empty depression.
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.161
> David Marcus>They, they're depressed and they don't know why.
00:26:29.721 --> 00:26:38.201
> David Marcus>It's because they never really could share themselves. They're just used to playing a role. So there's long term consequences.
00:26:38.441 --> 00:26:42.201
> David Marcus>But the long term consequence of being a soothing presence is just the opposite.
00:26:42.760 --> 00:26:44.921
> David Marcus>And here we get into your term resilience.
00:26:45.480 --> 00:27:04.851
> David Marcus>Because a child can deal with their emotions successfully with a soothing presence and work things out with a soothing presence, coming up with a solution once they're emptied out. For instance, that is what we call resilience in children. The child can handle the everyday stresses of life.
00:27:06.451 --> 00:27:25.820
> David Marcus>Now translate that going ahead. The child is now resilient, knows how to soothe, internalizes the soothing presence so they can soothe himself. What happens when they grow up? They can be a soothing presence for their spouse and their own children. It's a wonderful legacy.
00:27:26.461 --> 00:28:08.881
> David Marcus>All right. Now resilience in an adult is called stress tolerance. Right? You know, and when we see adults who can't handle stress or actually act out on it now, let's face it, a temper tantrum in the five year old we can control, you know, we don't expect them to have the words to express it and, you know, work it out. A 17, 19 year old who can't express it and still work, you know, expresses themselves behaviorally, that's jail time, you know. You know, that's dangerous, you know. And so this is a very important part of maturation. So how do you empty out? Okay, now, it depends on the age.
00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:18.480
> David Marcus>The first thing you need to do is, okay, I'm going to give you the four assumptions of emotionality.
00:28:20.161 --> 00:28:22.961
> David Marcus>That's my term for the developing child.
00:28:22.961 --> 00:28:25.201
> David Marcus>So you know what needs to happen.
00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:35.030
> David Marcus>Okay, Like I said, we go right back to birth to do this, the first assumption that we make about our children.
00:28:35.111 --> 00:28:42.861
> David Marcus>Let me preface this. If any of these four assumptions proves to be false, the child will not develop a language.
00:28:43.661 --> 00:28:57.820
> David Marcus>They'll say, I don't know, or change the subject. They won't tell you what's going on, or they won't be able to tell you what's going on. The first assumption is the earliest one. Does a child actually experience their emotions?
00:28:59.020 --> 00:29:28.881
> David Marcus>This assumption is a safe assumption to make. Most children know when they're mad, when they're sad, when they're, they're happy. Okay? It's only under conditions of extreme abuse or neglect at a very early age that a child will actually divorce themselves from their emotions. And that is very rare. I've only seen two children in all my 40 years of practice that, that was the case. And the reason was, is I could sell because they could not play.
00:29:30.230 --> 00:29:48.310
> David Marcus>They could not it. The world had impinged upon them so much that they had no imagination. Okay, so this is good that it's very rare, by the way, Curtis, because who I'm describing to you is Hannibal the Cannibal, somebody who can do something horrific and feel nothing.
00:29:49.351 --> 00:30:11.030
> David Marcus>All right? In private practice, most people are more functional than that. And of course, if the parents are bringing the child, they care about the child. So that's, that's a safe assumption, that the child experiences their emotions. But this next one up the scale is, okay, the child has their emotions, but can they tolerate their emotions?
00:30:11.590 --> 00:30:14.471
> David Marcus>Right now? This is not a good assumption to make.
00:30:14.951 --> 00:30:21.990
> David Marcus>Okay, let me ask you a quick question, which you'll probably edit out. Can you hear my wife playing the fiddle right now?
00:30:23.671 --> 00:30:25.671
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>No, but it would be nice if we could.
00:30:27.260 --> 00:30:29.260
> David Marcus>No, she's just learning how to play it.
00:30:30.861 --> 00:30:39.340
> David Marcus>As long as you can't hear it, it's okay. I'm using a unidirectional mic, but I can hear her. So I, the people were wondering, who is that? You know, it's my wife.
00:30:39.340 --> 00:30:42.140
> David Marcus>Practice. Okay, let's get back to the topic.
00:30:42.140 --> 00:30:42.540
> David Marcus>Thank you.
00:30:42.540 --> 00:30:44.330
> David Marcus>First. so. Okay.
00:30:47.611 --> 00:31:10.040
> David Marcus>Young children experience their emotions very intensely. The temper tantrum, the glee, like I explained earlier. Why is that? Two reasons. One is they don't have the language to get it off their chest, per se. Right. Except behaviorally. But the other reason is because they don't have what I call a gray zone. And what is a gray zone?
00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:49.580
> David Marcus>As we grow up, we have experiences that relate to what's going on in the present. And we think back to those experiences when it repeats, you know, in the present, and say, well, this is what I did the last time. This worked. This didn't work. You know, we. We have something to compare it to. Little children haven't had that opportunity yet, so they don't know what to do, you know, and that's another reason why they're experiencing so intensely. Not having a language and not knowing what to do. That's. That's why now, as we get older, we, you know, if we process these experiences with a soothing presence.
00:31:49.580 --> 00:32:04.820
> David Marcus>I'm just using terms now. If we do this, we learn. We learn how to deal with the emotions and what to do about it, about the situation. Well, there's a common word for that. It's called wisdom.
00:32:05.861 --> 00:32:14.641
> David Marcus>We've gained wisdom. Been there, done that, know what to do the next time. And our whole life is learning to gain wisdom.
00:32:15.681 --> 00:32:27.121
> David Marcus>If you don't learn because you don't process these experiences because somebody's telling you what they did, or they get angry at you or defensive because you said something they didn't like, you don't gain this, do you? You don't learn.
00:32:27.361 --> 00:32:48.721
> David Marcus>And like that phrase goes, if you don't learn, you're bound to repeat the same mistake. So this is a very, very important part of maturation, you know, resilience to stress management and gaining wisdom. These are the things that define us as people as far as dealing in an adult world.
00:32:50.721 --> 00:33:02.641
> David Marcus>So emptying out with little children. Well, I have to explain. I have to finish my assumptions. I'm sorry. There's a lot to this, Curtis. I'm. I'm sorry to jump around some.
00:33:03.921 --> 00:33:37.941
> David Marcus>The, Okay, so one of the things that parents need to do by being a soothing presence is make the child's intensive, emotions tolerable by helping them to get it from in here, where it's intense. And out there in their soothing presence, the child will kind of borrow that soothing presence and be able to soothe himself. Okay, so the Next assumption that they're all based on one child has their emotions, they can tolerate their emotions.
00:33:39.701 --> 00:33:42.580
> David Marcus>Do they have the language to express their emotions?
00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:47.221
> David Marcus>That's another big assumption that comes through practice.
00:33:47.701 --> 00:33:50.820
> David Marcus>It's a skill that comes through practice, typically with the parents.
00:33:51.540 --> 00:34:11.871
> David Marcus>All right. And I began to talk a little bit of how they developed that. The last one, and this one's big. With teenagers, a child has their emotions, they can tolerate their emotions. They have a language to express it. Is it safe for me to tell how I feel to this person right now?
00:34:11.951 --> 00:34:17.791
> David Marcus>Teenagers have an exquisite sense of privacy. Most of the time, they don't want their parents to know what they're doing. Why?
00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:46.041
> David Marcus>For a very simple reason. Their parents might say, no, they don't want to hear that. But in any case, there's lots of ways that parents make it unsafe for their children to tell them stuff. I mentioned some by getting angry in response, by trying to make light of it, by trying to make them feel better, which cuts off the, you know, they're expressing themselves by not having the time to sit down with them, which is, again, modern times, because everybody's working 24 7.
00:34:47.121 --> 00:34:55.170
> David Marcus>You know, the screens have become the electronic babysitter. And this. That's no good. That's not. It's not going to help the child to, develop.
00:34:55.891 --> 00:34:58.851
> David Marcus>You know, it's just going to distract them for a while.
00:34:58.931 --> 00:35:12.471
> David Marcus>That's all it's going to do. So the first thing I have to assess is where the child is with these four assumptions. And I share those with the parents because I call them assumptions, because there's.
00:35:12.550 --> 00:35:56.610
> David Marcus>We always assume that, oh, yeah, my child has their feelings, they can tolerate them, they have language, they can be, you know, parents say, I don't know why he doesn't talk to me. You know, we're like, you know, we're so close. You know, they're kidding themselves if they don't understand how to empty out. So here's the next part of emptying out. The parents need to understand, all right? It's more than just getting it off your chest, all right? Or catharsis, if you want to use the official term, or whatever it may be, because you have to empty out people on three different levels. And this is, again, my own thinking on the topic. but this is for your audience's benefit.
00:35:58.210 --> 00:36:01.170
> David Marcus>There are three levels that need to be emptied out. I'm going to explain them.
00:36:03.181 --> 00:36:22.630
> David Marcus>The first level is the here and now, what's going on right now. And typically, we have lots of words to describe what's going on right now? And I usually use this very simple example to explain it. You didn't take out, the garbage. Now, we have lots of words to describe why the person should have taken out the garbage.
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:40.240
> David Marcus>It's their chore. It's. It's beginning to smell. Tomorrow's, you know, pick up, you know, we have. That's easy. The next, deeper level is what I call the history level. This is the sixth time I've asked you to take out the garbage, and you haven't done it.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:46.561
> David Marcus>Now, obviously, the intensity of the emotion is going to be much greater the sixth time than the first time.
00:36:47.201 --> 00:36:57.521
> David Marcus>But if you were an outsider looking in and did not know the history, you might turn to that person and say, what's the big deal? So they didn't take out the garbage. Why are you getting so upset?
00:37:00.271 --> 00:37:06.351
> David Marcus>Right, so. And the deepest level is what I call the tapped into level.
00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:28.090
> David Marcus>The fact that you didn't take out the garbage after I asked you six times to do it means you don't listen to me. I hate when people don't listen to me. My brothers and sisters never listen to me, and they used to pick on me, and I tell my parents, and they wouldn't listen either. This one can go anywhere. All right?
00:37:29.130 --> 00:37:34.891
> David Marcus>Most of the intensity to a person's reaction comes from the history and the tapped into level.
00:37:35.530 --> 00:37:56.181
> David Marcus>But what do we do? We like to think of ourselves as logical people. So we stay on level one, you know, and just say, you know, just try to argue logically about the garbage when it has nothing to do with the garbage, really. It has to do with the history and, and the tapped into part of, of the, of the, of the situation.
00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:27.251
> David Marcus>They never get there. They just never get there, you know, and so they do this with their children, too. You know, I'll tell you something funny. I. I've seen, you know, doing the custody work, I got to know many attorneys, and sometimes the attorneys later will come to me because they're having their own family problems after that. They can't use me for custody matters or anything like that. But they, they respected me and they wanted me, my help. So.
00:38:28.291 --> 00:38:40.130
> David Marcus>And attorneys are a riot. You know, why is my kids acting up? Why, you know, why? It's. My wife is upset with me. Well, lawyers, they say, okay, give me proof.
00:38:40.690 --> 00:39:40.451
> David Marcus>You know, that's, that's the, you know, that's the adversarial process. You know, you line up your proof and you prove a point. So they'll turn to their kids or their Wife. Well, give me, give me proof that I do that, you know, Give me proof that you should feel that way. Tell me exactly why, you know, I feel that way, Dad. I feel that that's not good enough. You know what I mean? You know, may work in court, but it won't work your family, you know, so I have to explain it to them and say, hey, wait a minute, there's a lot more going on here than you think, you know, and they go, oh, because it works. It just doesn't work with their family. Those are emotional relationships. It's not a adversarial, structured environment like the court is, you know, so that's, that's the funny part. So this is, this is how the emptying out process goes.
00:39:40.451 --> 00:39:42.690
> David Marcus>Everybody starts on the first level, of course.
00:39:44.210 --> 00:40:01.411
> David Marcus>And how do you get to the second level? Well, sometimes people will just volunteer it. They'll say things like, well, you always do this and you never do that. Well, obviously now they're relating to previous events that are making them feel bad. Right.
00:40:02.710 --> 00:40:16.951
> David Marcus>Tell me about when I've done it before. So you try to empty out that level and the tapped into level. You know, when you do that, it makes me so mad and, you know, and I don't know why I'm so mad and everything.
00:40:16.951 --> 00:40:31.210
> David Marcus>Well, tell me about being mad. And from that, they start with, you know, the garbage. If you keep listening, you'll get to where they start talking about, I've always been this man, you know, I mean, people don't listen to me.
00:40:31.210 --> 00:40:33.331
> David Marcus>It makes me mad, you know, and they get into that.
00:40:34.530 --> 00:40:58.880
> David Marcus>You mirror back what you hear. And at the end of it, obviously this is with children or adults who have emotional language already, but at the end of it, you, you mirror back so they know that you're listening to them and that you're taking them seriously. And here we have another word that we use so commonly when you listen to somebody and take them seriously. But by repeating back what you heard and taking, you know, saying it, you know, that's important.
00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:32.670
> David Marcus>That's what we call respect. You're respecting them. Now, this goes directly in contrast to, you know, do as I say, not what I do, you know, or, you know, I'm, your parent. You do what I tell you to do, you know. No, you know, if you want your child to listen to you and take you seriously, you got to listen to them and take them seriously as a mother model. If you don't, as soon as they hit the teenage years, they're going to, you know, shut you out, you're not safe to talk to. You're just a pain. Pain in my neck, you know?
00:41:33.231 --> 00:41:36.110
> David Marcus>And then you lose. You lose access.
00:41:37.311 --> 00:41:42.190
> David Marcus>And without access, all you can do with your teenagers, react to their behavior.
00:41:42.990 --> 00:41:58.510
> David Marcus>And that's not going to get you anywhere because, well, adolescence, is a whole other topic. But let me stick to what I'm talking about now. So if they don't come up with, you never do this, so you always do that. You can elicit it.
00:41:59.150 --> 00:42:07.231
> David Marcus>Tell me, has that ever happened before or have I ever done that? Yes, and let them empty that out and mirror back what you hear.
00:42:08.431 --> 00:42:14.190
> David Marcus>You want to get to the last level. What's it like when I do? Makes me really mad.
00:42:14.740 --> 00:42:16.420
> David Marcus>Tell me about the word mad.
00:42:17.860 --> 00:42:19.701
> David Marcus>There's something very important here.
00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:54.590
> David Marcus>Words, you know, people make an assumption. Mad to them is what mad is to me, not so. And even if you're right, you're wrong. Because the idea is you got to get them to express it to you. Because as they're telling you, they're processing it and they're understanding what's going on with that them. If you just sit there and say, well, you know, give them a lecture on why they shouldn't be mad or. Or, hey, you know, that's all right, but, you know, no. Or worse yet, you give them some attitude. Well, life isn't easy. I don't know.
00:42:56.190 --> 00:43:01.070
> David Marcus>What does that mean? It doesn't mean much. You know, all it does is cut things off. Right?
00:43:01.951 --> 00:43:06.931
> David Marcus>So anyway, you can elicit those things, and you mirror back and at the end.
00:43:08.221 --> 00:43:27.260
> David Marcus>But then the next part of the process is the constructive part, the wisdom, which is, okay, you say, do I get it? You mirror back, yeah, you get it now they're emptied out. And you say, based on how you see it, no wonder you feel the way you do.
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:40.110
> David Marcus>So you're validating their perception. But notice the qualifier. I get very specific with. With phrasing. Maybe you've noticed that, and that's why I put it in the book Parents as child says, parents, child.
00:43:41.561 --> 00:44:00.920
> David Marcus>the qualifier based on how you see it. Because you may see it differently, you know, now because they're emptied out. You showed them respect by listening to them, taking them seriously. Now's your opportunity to say, I don't blame you for feeling it that way, but this is how I actually saw. And now they can actually hear you because they're not filled up.
00:44:01.331 --> 00:44:04.050
> David Marcus>You've shown them respect. They think you really understand them.
00:44:05.170 --> 00:44:11.181
> David Marcus>So the last part after you said, well, you know, Yes, I insisted you do your homework because that's my job as your parents.
00:44:11.181 --> 00:44:16.311
> David Marcus>So, you know, the last thing is what can we do about it now? notice the word we.
00:44:17.030 --> 00:44:36.751
> David Marcus>We as a merger. I'm in it with you, not what are you going to do? What are we going to do? And if it's something like homework and you get into what's getting in the way of you, you know, but now they can talk to you about it because they're empty now. Well, I'd rather talk to my friends. Tell me about that.
00:44:38.110 --> 00:44:40.190
> David Marcus>Well, it's a lot more fun than doing my math.
00:44:40.670 --> 00:44:49.471
> David Marcus>Undoubtedly. You know what happens if you don't do your math? Well, the teacher will give me a zero. Tell me what that would be like.
00:44:50.831 --> 00:45:13.601
> David Marcus>You don't go into lecture number four saying you're, you're going to get zeros, and, and then they'll shut you down. You know. Lecture number four, I don't need to hear it because they already know that, you know, first of all. Yeah, you don't do over. You're going to get a zero. So, you let them, you say, what. What will it be like if the teacher says to, you're getting a zero and you're probably going to flunk this term?
00:45:14.561 --> 00:45:17.280
> David Marcus>Well, I wouldn't like that. Why not?
00:45:18.971 --> 00:45:27.201
> David Marcus>Because all my friends are, you know, they'll laugh at me or, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever it might be. Well, what can we do about that?
00:45:28.161 --> 00:45:33.601
> David Marcus>Well, I guess I better. You know, I, I don't seem to be able to set aside time for my homework. I'm always on my video games.
00:45:34.721 --> 00:45:41.840
> David Marcus>Well, tell me about your video games. Well, I literally love my video games. You know, my favorite is this, that, or the other. And.
00:45:43.371 --> 00:45:49.690
> David Marcus>Okay, well, what can we do to get, it. So you can do both and you come up with a solution.
00:45:50.891 --> 00:46:04.010
> David Marcus>And that's where the gaining the wisdom part is. And if, if they say they'll do it, especially with a teenager, if they actually say, okay, that's a good idea, I think I'll do that. You have a much better chance of actually doing it than if you lecture them and say, this is what you're going to do.
00:46:05.210 --> 00:46:14.030
> David Marcus>You know, because teenagers, they don't want to hear that. They're going through a process called individuation, which means I gotta be me.
00:46:14.590 --> 00:46:25.871
> David Marcus>So when you tell them what to do with your finger in their face, their reaction is mostly going to be, you're treating me like a child. And I don't, I don't like that I don't want to show you. You can't treat me like a child.
00:46:27.791 --> 00:46:30.670
> David Marcus>Now we're getting into the topic of discipline, which is another hour.
00:46:30.670 --> 00:46:33.550
> David Marcus>Curtis, I, I, we really can't get into that. All right.
00:46:34.521 --> 00:46:42.440
> David Marcus>but the emptying out process is necessary because we get filled up and you have to empty out on three different levels.
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:56.041
> David Marcus>With children, you have to do more work with that because they don't have the language and you have to help them with the language. I'll get into that a little bit. With little children, sometimes you have to take guesses. My guess is it was really tough when your brother hit you.
00:46:58.041 --> 00:47:07.900
> David Marcus>Again, I'm getting very particular with your audience. I hope this is helpful. The active words in that statement is my guess and the word tough.
00:47:09.820 --> 00:47:38.860
> David Marcus>Why do you say my guess? Because you're using your own words and you don't know if that's exactly how they're feeling. They may be mad at their brother or they may be really sad because their brother hit them. But you don't know that yet, you know, so you take it as a guess because the worst that can happen is that you're wrong and you take another guess. How close am I? And they'll, you know, use their hands or they'll say, on, a scale of 1 to 10, I'll close my. Well, I think you're only going to get three. So you take another guess.
00:47:39.661 --> 00:47:45.240
> David Marcus>If you say, I'm sure it's this, then you got the same thing. The child's not going to sit there and say, no, no, you're full of it.
00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:51.221
> David Marcus>Ah, you know, that's not what it is. A little, then I can just shut, up. So the other word is tough.
00:47:51.780 --> 00:48:03.251
> David Marcus>Well, we know it's tough, we just don't know how it's tough. It could be tough, sad, tough, mad to frustrated, you know, stuff, anxious. We let them give us the word for tough. Tell me, tell me about the word tough.
00:48:04.291 --> 00:48:13.050
> David Marcus>You see, and they may come up with volcano mad, or they may come up with, you know, Another one was universally sad. Universe said universe.
00:48:13.050 --> 00:48:18.771
> David Marcus>The whole solar system said Dr. Marcus. This was a four year old little girl, cute little girl.
00:48:19.170 --> 00:48:21.820
> David Marcus>I sat down on the floor with her and she did this.
00:48:22.221 --> 00:48:27.661
> David Marcus>I said, really? Really, really. And she turned to me and went, Dr. Marcus, your breath smells.
00:48:28.541 --> 00:49:11.780
> David Marcus>And I laughed because I'm sitting two feet away from her because that's the comfort zone for a little child to sit on the floor. But in any case, I, I always remembered her because that was what she said, anyway, after talking to, you know, six people that day, I'm sure my breath did smell. But okay. But anyway, that's the thumbnail. So what I can tell your audience as far as what they're trying to achieve, but the first thing is that soothing presence. I talk to people about lifestyle. I'll talk to them about job stress. I'll talk to them about their own history so they know where they regress to, so they can overcome some of these things and be there for each other and for their kids. Right.
00:49:12.831 --> 00:49:41.501
> David Marcus>When it gets bad enough, I do a, custody evaluation and say, this one's the parent and this one's really not doing the parenting. But that's the extreme. Okay, But I've had to go to court on some of this stuff because some parents, especially like narcissistic parents, who are only concerned about how they feel they really hurt their kids, you know. And so, you know, that's the other part of what I do, navigating for children. But most of the time, I'm advocating for children with their parents.
00:49:42.621 --> 00:49:51.221
> David Marcus>Say, this is what your child is experiencing. This is their emotional perception. They don't feel safe to talk to you because this is what you do.
00:49:51.221 --> 00:49:54.061
> David Marcus>Instead, try it out, see if it works.
00:49:56.061 --> 00:50:15.070
> David Marcus>And they try it, and hopefully it works. And usually it takes a while because the child's saying, what are you doing? Because they expecting something different. But eventually it can work. And I know when it's working because instead of me telling the parents, this is your child's emotional perceptions, they come to me and say, this is what I learned from my child.
00:50:16.351 --> 00:50:25.150
> David Marcus>This is what they're perceiving. This is how they're feeling. They'll say, time to go. You know, you. You got access. Access is influence.
00:50:25.391 --> 00:50:37.010
> David Marcus>As long as you have that access, you can have influence over what your child learns, gaining wisdom, their behavior, all that stuff. You know, it's a wonderful skill to have, you know.
00:50:37.811 --> 00:51:23.380
> David Marcus>So in a nutshell, there's a whole lot more examples because, again, developmentally, it's different, different situations. one of the things I've learned as I matured as a therapist is every situation is different. So don't ever assume that you know everything that's going on, because you don't. So I have to do a lot of exploring before I give any sort of advice at all, right? Sometimes I have to do individual work with the parents to help them to overcome some of the things that are in their way of being able to be a parent or a spouse or just being so darn impressed themselves that, ah, you know, they're sort of at a loss period. You know. So, you know, there's a family, you know, it's called family systems theory.
00:51:25.070 --> 00:51:31.231
> David Marcus>and it's basically this. What affects one person in a family affects everybody. All right?
00:51:33.791 --> 00:51:45.510
> David Marcus>You know, if dad's upset, it could upset mom. Mom might be short tempered with the child. The child gets mad, does something bad, and dad gets even angrier. You know, it's, it's like balls in a, in a lottery machine.
00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.231
> David Marcus>Everything's bouncing off of one another.
00:51:48.431 --> 00:52:00.010
> David Marcus>And so that's why I never see children without seeing their parents. You know, I am not going to just make the child all better just by talking. It's the parents.
00:52:00.331 --> 00:52:21.360
> David Marcus>They're there, they're the parents. I'm not, you know, so when they come to me and say, okay, this is what I'm learning from my child and we work this thing out and sometimes I'll get, boy, I wish I had you in my ear On Thursday night, Dr. Marcus, because I got stuck, you know, that kind of thing, that's fine. You know, sometimes parents do call me and ask me, my child is doing this, what do I do?
00:52:22.001 --> 00:52:52.300
> David Marcus>But, you know, most of the time it's over the course of time. You know, it takes a while to do this work. As you can tell, they, when a child feels that they can really express themselves with their parents, they trust them. Okay. They can trust how their parents are going to react in a positive way, way that, you know, parents want to be able to trust their children. This is the beginning of, being able to trust your children if they can trust you as a parent.
00:52:53.101 --> 00:52:56.300
> David Marcus>If they can't, they, then you won't hear what's going on.
00:52:56.460 --> 00:53:03.581
> David Marcus>And then when you find out, you'll just react to their behavior, which is not going to be helpful as far as helping them gain wisdom.
00:53:05.581 --> 00:53:46.760
> David Marcus>Now, I've been really long winded with you here, Curtis. There's a lot more to this, but this is, this is how parents can help their children from the beginning become resilient and then a soothing presence for themselves and then become a soothing presence for them, their spouse and their child, children later. This is the legacy. This is what I pretty much devoted my professional life to. It's helping people to really connect with their children, with their, you know, significant others, and to form a lifestyle that will promote that.
00:53:47.481 --> 00:53:52.280
> David Marcus>So it's a lot of work. There's a lot of different components to it, but that's it.
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:57.320
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, we got about Five minutes left. So real quick, throw out your.
00:53:57.320 --> 00:53:59.960
> David Marcus>Okay, get it all in.
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:01.721
> David Marcus>Absolutely.
00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:07.170
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, tell us about any upcoming projects real quick and throw out your contact info.
00:54:07.411 --> 00:54:16.110
> David Marcus>Right. I have a book coming out. It's called Parent Prescription. It's not out yet. Hopefully within the year. But I've done a number of these podcasts.
00:54:16.190 --> 00:54:25.061
> David Marcus>Again, I thank you, Curtis, for having me. where I go through this, this type of material and sometimes in different detail or more detail, depending on how much time you have.
00:54:25.061 --> 00:55:19.291
> David Marcus>You know, they can. People can Visit my website, ParentRx P A R E N T R X.org ParentRx.org or they can contact me at DS Marcus D S M A R C U S P h d@parentrx.org org the. The. The email addresses on the website. They can also, listen to the other podcasts. And at the very bottom, if they're interested in Celtic music, Irish music, there's actually a link to my CD I put out of Irish music if they want. So if your audience likes that kind of music and guitars and banjos and stuff like that, they're fiddles. You're welcome to listen to that as well. So, anyway, thank you for, for having me.
00:55:20.561 --> 00:55:24.121
> David Marcus>and, I hope this is beneficial for your listeners.
00:55:25.481 --> 00:55:33.721
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Absolutely. Great episode, listeners. Please be sure to follow, rate, review, share this episode to as many people as possible. We got a lot of parents out there.
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