Sept. 3, 2024

Mastering Book Editing and Marketing: Insights from Michelle Barard

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In today’s episode, we dive into the world of book editing, marketing, and consulting services with the founder of Urban Book Editor, Michelle Barard. Join us as we explore how Michelle helps aspiring authors navigate the complexities of the publishing industry, from writing and rewriting to marketing and publishing. Whether you're an aspiring author or just curious about the world of self-publishing, this episode is packed with valuable insights and advice.
www.michelebarard.com

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome, um, to the living the dream podcast with Curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the living a dream with Curveball podcast, a ah show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today we're going to be talking about helping aspiring authors with book editing, marketing and consulting services, as I am joined by the founder of Urban book editor, Michelle Barraud. She has a extensive and impressive professional career, but now what she does is she helps aspiring authors with book editing, professional editing, marketing, and consulting services. So we're going to be talking to her about everything that she's up to and how she can help you if you're an aspiring author. So if you know of any aspiring authors, be sure to hear this episode. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today.

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> Michelle Berard>Well, thank you, Curtis, for having me. I appreciate it.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

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> Michelle Berard>Well, let's see.

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> Michelle Berard>I usually tell people that I was a mother first. That was my first and most important job, the best job I ever had in my life. And everything else was in support of that. And it was partly through that that I started urban book editor.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay, well, before you started, uh, Urban Buck editor, you also have an extensive professional career and things like software management and all that good stuff. So tell us about that.

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> Michelle Berard>Um, so I was, uh, one of those folks who was a little, I'm going to say, aimless in college, didn't realize that I liked computers, loved computers until my senior year, and didn't have enough money to stick around to change my degree. So I graduated with a degree in international relations, uh, with a focus on Latin America and the Caribbean, which is still an area that I love tremendously. I kind of maneuvered my career because fortunately, I have a tendency to grow roles around me.

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> Michelle Berard>So I started out doing things like computer graphics. Well, started as an admin assistant at a company that no longer exists in the DC area, moved into computer graphics, uh, later moved into software training and technical, uh, writing. So I've worked for a variety of software companies doing project management or program management. I've done a lot of different things. As I said, I tend to grow positions around me and because I have a wide variety of interests, I love working at small companies in particular, because you usually have that opportunity to grow your role, because you can see an opportunity to learn something new where maybe there's a gap in a system. So one of my gifts is seeing a gap in a system and figuring out how we can streamline that system and make it more efficient.

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> Michelle Berard>Um, coming from my computer graphics background, I have gone into companies and been able to create entire training programs, including all of the materials. You know, back then they were making PDF's and so forth. Now I do that kind of thing on SharePoint, for example, or on a website.

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> Michelle Berard>So this, uh, wide and varied background has allowed me to do a lot of things, learn a lot of things, and then bring all of that into the business and bring that to bear to help my clients.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's talk about how has the Internet democratized publishing?

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> Michelle Berard>Oh my goodness, the Internet.

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> Michelle Berard>For all of the negative things that people say about the Internet and social media and so forth, what it's really done that's amazing is in addition to making the world kind of a smaller place by connecting us with people, really all across the world, and allowing us to learn about other people and other people to learn about us, the other thing it's done is it's really allowed voices that otherwise might not have been able to get their stories out. Because of the various gatekeepers in the publishing industry to do just that through self publishing, through blogging, through, uh, being able to pitch themselves on other websites and creating their own websites, it's been amazing. The Internet has really, I think, been one of the driving forces for the widespread interest in urban literature. For example, um, it was mostly just us reading urban lit for the longest time. And now it's really something that, it's still a marketing term, urban. But I think that people from wide swaths of communities, not just here in the United States, but in other countries, have an interest in our stories. And I think that's really one of the best things that's happened for us as a people. Now, some would argue the story should be more uplifting and so forth and so on. Yeah, there is that argument, but just the fact that our voices are out there, the voices of people who otherwise wouldn't have been heard, to me, is just amazing. And it's really revealed, I think, a depth to people that we would not have expected such depth from. Uh, we've been able to see amazing talent, I think, come out of unexpected places and really just help to share more about who we are individually and as the various groups that we are.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay, well, I know you've also made a lot of, uh, media appearances, so tell us about that. And also about the live stream that you started called shelter in place.

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> Michelle Berard>Well, I have been fortunate enough to have wonderful people like you invite me onto their podcasts to talk, uh, about writing, editing, publishing, self publishing in particular, and all that goes with that, including the marketing and social media. So I can't even list probably the number of shows that I've been on where I've been able to do that. Um, everything from shows produced by tribe family channel, uh, to nice, uh, guys on business have been so kind as to have me on their shows. I myself have a podcast that actually is wrapping up this year after eight seasons called somewhere in the middle with Michelle Berard. And the goal of that show was really to kind of tackle the divisions in my little corner of the world. My goal was in my little corner of the world. How could I help people see that we are more alike than we are different, that we all have challenges, we all have struggles, and we all have triumphs, and we can really learn and inspire, kind of like what you do, right? That we can learn from one another, and we can inspire one another, and that all of the division that we see in our society is really, in many ways, manufactured. So that was what that was about. And then, of course, during the pandemic, during the height of the pandemic, when it first started, I started a live stream called Shelter in place, uh, hash pandemic 2020. And I did that with a friend of mine, Julia Black.

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> Michelle Berard>And we really, our goal was for us to learn, but also to help educate other people about COVID and what's happening. And then as the live stream went on, we really wanted to focus on not just the challenges of, uh, Covid and all of the political aspects and the economic aspects, and, of course, all of the destruction that we saw in our communities, the death and destruction in our communities, but also some good news, some things that we could uplift people with, really, as we started coming out of that. So that was the goal of that live stream.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, why do you feel like business leaders should consider writing a book?

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> Michelle Berard>Oh, my goodness. Business leaders should consider writing a book because it's one of the best ways, I think, to establish yourself as a thought leader in your industry.

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> Michelle Berard>And it doesn't have to be the world's largest book. Um, in fact, most people, truthfully aren't going to necessarily read the entire book. They're going to read key aspects of the book. They're going to look for those key points. So there are ways you can structure that so they can take that away a lot easier. Easier.

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> Michelle Berard>But it really does help to establish you as a thought leader, and it builds credibility. I mean, if writing a book were easy, everybody would do it.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Talk about speaking of, if writing a book was easy, everybody would do it. What are the three keys to writing a successful book?

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> Michelle Berard>The first key to writing a successful book is to sit down and write. And that is probably one of the most challenging parts, because especially for those of us who consider ourselves to be writers in any way, shape, or form, we also tend to be perfectionists. And so we get caught up in the minutiae of editing ourselves as we write. And that's counterproductive to the process. Typically, very few people can write and edit at the same time. So the first thing is just to write the book without censoring yourself, without editing as you go. Kind of a, I don't want to say stream of consciousness, because you want to have some structure there. And there are different ways to get structure. But sitting down and writing is probably the first key. The second key, in my opinion, is rewriting. And that is the part where a lot of us fall down on the job because we fall in love with our words. We think every word is perfect as it is. And 99% of the time, probably, there is so much room for improvement from your first draft to what you finally produce. The writers who are most successful in the world do several rewrites of their, uh, manuscripts, not just a few lines, literally tearing it apart and rewriting entire scenes, sometimes entire chapters, and for some of them, the entire book.

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> Michelle Berard>I think it's Cornelia Fionk. I hope I'm pronouncing her name correctly. She's the author of a Dragon series, uh, my kids used to read many years ago. I have read that she rewrites her manuscripts sometimes as many as eight times before. That's before it goes to the editor. That's her work, writing and rewriting over and over and over again to get the most, the most complete, accurate, concise, and well written story possible before turning it over to the editor.

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> Michelle Berard>And then the third key is, once you get through all that technical stuff, because you got to write, you've got to rewrite, and then there's a bunch of technical stuff that needs to happen. You have to work with your editor.

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> Michelle Berard>You have to get layers out done for the interior of the manuscript. You have to get, you know, their, your ISBN number. You have all these different things. You have to do cover design. As soon as you get that cover, start marketing your book. Because unless you've decided I'm writing this book for my own personal edification, no one knows you have this book. So you really need to give yourself. Most people, I think, without a significant following as a writer need to give themselves at least six to twelve months to start building up that part of their profile, uh, for marketing. And that way you'll have an audience ready and willing and able to buy your book when you release it.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay, so tell us a little bit about urban book editor. If I was an aspiring author and I came to you and I said, hey, Michelle, uh, I would like to use your services. What kind of services could you provide to me?

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> Michelle Berard>So over the years, urban book editor has actually evolved. And so I'm still known as urban book editor on social media. Right now, the urbanbookeditor.com website points to michelleberrard.com, because over the years, I found I was doing more than editing.

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> Michelle Berard>I was doing more consulting, as you mentioned at the beginning of the show, and working with people on marketing, on press releases, on, uh, developing entire book marketing plans for their books. So as I was doing all of that, I said, I'm not sure that urban book editor actually expresses precisely what I do. And I was working with authors of all ethnicities, all, um, socioeconomic levels. I've done everything from fantasy to self help to christian to memoir, and everything in between, poetry, fiction.

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> Michelle Berard>So I wanted to really kind of shift the focus of the company, not just on urban books, and that's by design. And also focus less on editing, because I found that's less what my clients needed. What they needed was not just the editing. They really needed to be walked through the entire process. So I basically can help you through the writing and the development of your story or your memoir, m which is still a story, but a different type of story, a real story.

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> Michelle Berard>Uh, start with book development through the editing phase, through layout, cover design and marketing, so that you have kind of a one stop shop. And I partner with other companies so that if I'm overloaded, they can help and vice versa. So we work together.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>But talk about the steps to publishing a book. What are the steps to publishing a book, and how long does it take?

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> Michelle Berard>Oh, how long it takes to publish a book really depends on the author. The most important part of this process, I think, is a rewrite, as I mentioned.

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> Michelle Berard>So let's say it takes you six months. Doesn't have to, but let's say it takes you six months or a year to do your first draft. Some people have worked on their first drafts for ten years, so it just depends on the author from that perspective. But then you've got to go back and rewrite.

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> Michelle Berard>And like I said, rewriting is the part where most people tend to struggle a little bit because your first draft is probably not ready to go to an editor. In fact, I've turned people around when they've come to me with a manuscript that just wasn't ready and said, this needs to a lot more work. And if they weren't wanting to do book development with me, then they would have to go back, work on it, and then come back when it was really ready.

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> Michelle Berard>How long it takes to do that will depend on the author as well. But it can take, like I said, for some people it can take years. People are living life while they are writing. Very few people, uh, that I know have the wherewithal financially to just write all day, right? They've got jobs, they've got families, they've got other things. So that part can take quite a little while. Once you get to the editing phase, though, that process does not have to take a super long time. The way that I edit with my clients is I view it as more of a partnership. I don't know, dictate what you have to do with your manuscript. I view it as kind, uh, of a give and take a discussion. So I'll go through and do the first round of edits and then send it back to you with my suggestions. You have to look it over. You have to accept or reject changes.

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> Michelle Berard>I do the use Microsoft word for that. So you can accept or reject the changes in the document.

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> Michelle Berard>Address any comments that I've made, and then send it back. Some authors turn it around immediately, and you have it back in two weeks. Others have taken significantly longer. I have one come back to me two years later after kind of disappearing off the face there. But again, life happens, therefore that can happen.

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> Michelle Berard>So it does depend on the author, but typically between first round, second round, and then the last, what I would call the tweaking of the manuscript. It can be as short as six weeks, again, depending on the author, depending on that manuscript. Average, ah, manuscript for fiction, for example, runs around 75,000 words. So if you can, if you're in that range, that's typically what I'll find for people who are very, very responsive about getting back to me. Um, after that, you've got layout, you've got cover design. I believe that cover design should be a parallel effort with editing, because you need to go back and forth with the designer a few times to get the COVID just right, the way that it should be for your book and that it represents the story well and is presented beautifully. And once you've got that cover, you should start marketing. So some of these things are kind of overlapping processes. Right. Um, but then you get to layout, you get to, uh, cover design. Again, those are things that can take as few as a couple of weeks and as long as a couple of months, just, again, depending on the author that you're working with. And other things are really just technical. Once you've got the final manuscript set up, it's going to depend on how you're publishing. If you're publishing through something like Ingramspark or Amazon, you upload your files, and that's done very quickly. So putting all that together in the shortest possible time frame, assuming that the editor, you know, going from editing to publishing, can be as little as four months, maybe, maybe even less. Again, I've seen it take literally years.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>So talk about some of the challenges you faced as a black woman business owner and how you've managed to overcome them.

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> Michelle Berard>Well, being a business owner is challenging in and of itself. Being a black woman owning a business, I don't want to imply that it is, um, overwhelmingly challenging. However, I do find that sometimes it's hard to get people to take you seriously the first time around. I feel like it's almost like they don't believe that you know what you know. Right. So. And this happens not just in business for black women, but also in corporate America, where I have had people test me, you know, like, test my knowledge, test my skills. I'm like, I've been at this for a minute. I've been working since I was 15 years old. So if I tell you I know something, I'm not making it up. Uh, I'm sure there are people who do that, but I've seen that often, wherever. It's almost like people don't believe you the first time. Sometimes. Then, of course, there's the capital issue, right.

00:21:24.490 --> 00:22:53.359
> Michelle Berard>It's challenging for small businesses to get capital. Sometimes it can be particularly challenging for, um, black owned businesses and black women owned businesses to get funding. In fact, I mean, I'm not. I don't. My business isn't directly in the tech field, but you'll read articles all the time about, particularly in the tech field, when black women have businesses and they're trying to get funding from these angel investors and so forth, they're not getting them. And in fact, recently, and I can't remember if this company was based out of Chicago, because my daughter and I were talking about this, um, there was a company that was trying to specifically fund black women business owners in the tech field, and they were challenged for being racist, I guess, for not focusing their funding on other types of business, even though black women are so underserved in that area. So even when we try to do something for ourselves, for our own communities, sometimes we get challenged as if we don't have a right to do that, whereas you see that all the time in other communities, folks support each other in various ways. So there are a lot of challenges, I think, that black women, business owners, black business owners have to deal with that.

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> Michelle Berard>I think a lot of other people maybe don't experience. I don't know. I'm not in those communities.

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> Michelle Berard>But if they experience them, I think they may experience them significantly differently, because they do have stronger, often have stronger economic bases in their communities that can help prop them up in other ways.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>So what advice, because I know you were doing everything as a mom, what advice would you give, uh, other moms who want to start a business?

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> Michelle Berard>Wow, that's a challenging one, because everybody's bandwidth is a little different, you know, and what your priorities are. But for me, I grew up a latchkey kid. I came home, and then later, when my sister was going to elementary school, we came home and there was nobody there. And I was really focused on not having my kids come home to an empty house.

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> Michelle Berard>I think that a lot of the issues that we experience in our communities is because parents are struggling to be there for their kids sometimes. So for me, my goal was to always be able to pick up my kids from school myself or pick them up from their bus stop, bring them home, and whatever else I did to bring in the extra money, whatever else I did as a business, really to be in my house with my kids or something where I could take them with me. So even if I had to work late on my day job, I would take my kids with me to the day job. It was never. I never wanted them to be alone. So that was a big priority for me.

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> Michelle Berard>So that changed some of the options that I had, you know, because for a while, I thought, well, I can do something like sell Mary Kay. I can. You know, I had all these different business things that I thought about and ultimately decided I had to learn to leverage the technology at my disposal along with the knowledge that I had and then continue learning so that I could do something from home. So that was my focus. Now, with that said, it required a, uh, high level of organization. The first thing I had to do. And fortunately, I already had developed this habit, in large part because early in my career, I worked for a company that as soon as you came on board, the first thing they did was have you order a daytimer. I don't know if anybody remembers daytimers, but here were those little, um, books that you had, the pages that you could put inside, and it was your calendar and your notes and everything in there. So I've always had that habit. It's now just transferred to the computer and the phone. And first thing I did was start teaching my kids, anything that you have to do, anything that you're required to be at or I'm, um, required to be up for you, has to go into an appointment. I need to know about it far enough in advance so I can plan. So planning was really key. I live and die by my calendar, and if it's not in my calendar, it doesn't exist. So that was the first thing, is to become highly organized from that perspective.

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> Michelle Berard>Um, we were in Atlanta, and Atlanta, if anybody's familiar, has terrible traffic. Not as bad as la yet, but really terrible traffic. And at one point I had three kids at three different schools and had to get two, three different places to get them. So one of the things that I started doing was preparing meals, or the main portion of our meal. On Sunday, I would spend, I go to the grocery store Sunday morning and spend all day cooking.

00:26:47.147 --> 00:27:13.259
> Michelle Berard>And that way during the week, all I had to do was take something out and put a vegetable with it. And we had dinner ready, so I didn't spend a lot of time cooking during the week. That made life much less stressful after a long commute, sometimes as long as 2 hours, getting everybody from where they needed to be. So again, that's partly a function of staying organized.

00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:18.872
> Michelle Berard>That, um, is just so key to this whole thing.

00:27:19.056 --> 00:27:36.339
> Michelle Berard>And lastly, I would say lean into your strengths, whatever your strengths are. For me, it was figuring out how to leverage technology in an area where I already had some skills. So that was the writing and editing.

00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.799
> Michelle Berard>Um, what are your strengths?

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> Michelle Berard>Whatever those gifts are that you have, whatever those things are that you've learned, and those skills that you've honed over the years, figure out how you can lean into that. And I am a big fan of figuring out how to leverage the technology that we have at our disposal today to do that even more efficiently and more effectively. So, for example, if you are a hairstylist and that's what you love to do, and you don't even feel like you're working when you're doing it, that's awesome. What can you do from a technology standpoint to make your life easier? Is it scheduling? The appointments online.

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> Michelle Berard>Is it having some sort of automated phone system to help you out? Things like that look for. So it doesn't matter what it is that you do. You don't have to work on a computer to leverage the technology is really the point of that statement. Just figure out how you can leverage that technology to make your life easier and help you do your business better.

00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:51.559
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Tell us about any current or upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

00:28:52.539 --> 00:29:59.980
> Michelle Berard>Well, I am really excited because, like I said, right now, urbanbook editor.com points to michellebarrar.com. i have been really focusing on, um, helping black women over 50 tell their stories, because I think that we have so much knowledge, so much experience that we can share with younger women in particular who are starting to experience things that are maybe not so pleasant and they don't know how to get through or, you know, are just new to them. So I think we have a lot of opportunities there to share our stories with the younger generation as they are starting to engage in these relationships and have children and so forth and, uh, start their careers. I also am excited, though, because I have been working on a new project, a book project of my own. So I'm going to be releasing a new book next year.

00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:35.190
> Michelle Berard>And it is, uh, it's really kind of a personal journey story. It's about my personal journey and some of the pivots I've had to make throughout my life, not just in career, but also in relationships and the ups and downs and how you can triumph even when people try to kick you, you know, try to kick you while you're down, because that does happen. And, um, I'm really excited about that project as well.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>All right, well, we got your website, michellebarroa.com, so close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

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> Michelle Berard>Well, really, I just want to thank you, Curtis, for having me on the show. I'm excited to be able to share, um, my knowledge and experience with your audience, and I really hope that your audience, if you have any aspiring writers out there that are interested in exploring how they can move forward on their books, I have set up a page where they can book a, ah, free call with me. They can reach out to me@michelleberrard.com.

00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:23.160
> Michelle Berard>freecall.

00:31:27.819 --> 00:31:30.559
> Michelle Berard>And they'll be able to book time on my calendar.

00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:41.500
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>All, uh, right, ladies and gentlemen, if you know of any aspiring authors, Michellebarrot.com freecall book some time with Michelle.

00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:49.730
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Check out her website, check out her company, everything that she's up to. Follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible.

00:31:50.109 --> 00:31:58.157
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Jump on your favorite podcast app. Give us a follow review. Check us out if you have any guests or suggestion topics.

00:31:58.213 --> 00:32:06.210
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Curtis Jackson, 1978 t.net is the place to send them. As always, thank you for listening and supporting the show.

00:32:06.509 --> 00:32:09.809
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>And Michelle, thank you for joining us and sharing your expertise.

00:32:10.349 --> 00:32:11.890
> Michelle Berard>Thank you for having me.

00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:20.577
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>For more information on the living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurvefall.com.

00:32:20.753 --> 00:32:25.241
> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>until next time, stay focused on living the dream.

00:32:25.306 --> 00:32:25.529
> Michelle Berard>Dream.