March 12, 2024

Living the dream with the CEO of Big Leaf Networks and internet optimization expert Greg Davis

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Dive into the world of Internet optimization with Greg Davis, CEO of Big Leaf Networks, on the latest episode of Living the Dream with curveball. Discover how Big Leaf is revolutionizing the way businesses stay connected, ensuring quality, failover, and traffic prioritization. Greg's journey from the trauma of workplace violence to tech leadership offers a unique perspective on creating a high-performance, safe work environment. Tune in for an inspiring story of resilience, innovation, and the pursuit of excellence.

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> Speaker A>Welcome, um, to the Living the Dream podcast with curveball. If you believe you can achieve cheat, cheat.

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> Speaker A>Welcome to the Living the Dream with curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire.

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> Speaker A>Today we're going to be talking about scaling businesses and network optimization, as I am joined by the CEO of Big Leaf, Greg Davis. Greg has been on the board of directors of Big Leaf, uh, for, uh, three years, ever since 2020.

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> Speaker A>He has 25 years of tech leadership experience. He even told me in the green room that he ran a cybersecurity company, and he has a record of scaling businesses.

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> Speaker A>So, Greg, thank you so much for joining us today.

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> Speaker B>Well, thank you so much, Curtis. It's nice to be here and nice to see you.

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> Speaker A>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

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> Speaker B>Yeah, sure thing. So, Greg Davis, I'm the CEO of Big Leaf Networks, which is, um, an Internet optimization business that's headquartered in Portland, Oregon.

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> Speaker B>Um, I've, uh, been an operator in private equity backed businesses for the last 20 years. I live in Houston. Uh, I got associated with Big Leaf by way of an investor that I had worked with in the past. I got put on the board and I started running day to day operations, um, for Big Leaf about two years ago. Prior to that, as we mentioned, I've done other businesses. I was in online, um, ordering, uh, and point of sale, uh, financial services for the hospitality industry for four years before this with a business called Hungerush. And then prior to that, as I mentioned to you, um, I ran alert Logic, which was a cybersecurity company, a very fast growing hyperscale cybersecurity company, uh, that me and a couple of guys ran from 2009 until 2018.

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> Speaker B>And then prior to that, I was in the hosting industry. So primarily, I'm an operator. I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm not the most innovative person in the world, if you will. Uh, as it relates to building businesses, I'm an operator. I come in, build efficiencies, build scale, and that's really where I've spent my career. And I'm having a blast doing this for big leaf right now. I love the customer base, I love the company, and it's a very simple, um, value proposition that does a lot of good for folks.

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> Speaker A>Okay? So, for those who don't know, explain to the listeners what your company does and what is Internet optimization?

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> Speaker B>Yeah, think about it this way.

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> Speaker B>The way that we consume services and the way that we interact with, just think of it as the distribution endpoint and the distribution. Endpoint could be where we pick up a pizza, where we get our haircut, where we go to get a dermatology image, if you will. Uh, it's not necessarily brick and mortar, but it's the endpoint, uh, of the line. And so what's changed dramatically about that? Think about scheduling a haircut. In today's world, we use cloud applications, and we're engaging both in terms of the way that we schedule, in terms of the way that we order, and in terms of the way that we pay.

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> Speaker B>All of that has moved through digital channels, and that has accelerated dramatically since the pandemic, certainly over the last four or five years. Look at things like Doordash. Well, that changes the operating posture of these businesses. So they've gone from direct interaction to customers and analog or voice lines to do business to largely a digital environment. Uh, and all of that is being facilitated over the Internet. Well, not much has changed in the Internet. We'll use sports clips as an example. If you open a sports clips in a shopping center, the Internet connection that you get in that shopping center hasn't changed very much.

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> Speaker B>But however, the leverage and how we use that Internet circuit has changed dramatically.

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> Speaker B>And so now, all of a sudden, the heartbeat of an entire business runs on an Internet circuit, and we're dependent on whatever's available in whatever shopping center, whatever distribution, endpoint, anywhere, uh, in the country. And there's a lot of variability there. So what big leaf does is we have a router, essentially a box that takes multiple connections from the Internet. So perhaps that same shopping center Internet connection is now coupled with a wireless connection or a satellite connection or a Wi Fi connection. And so what we do is we provide quality of service so that I can guarantee you that that dermatology image that's taken in a remote part of Texas, for instance, or southern Oregon, um, where the doctors might be in Portland, but the patient might be in a very remote area. That happens a lot here in Texas, along the Gulf coast. Um, so what we can do is guarantee the quality of that image over what amounts to be a public circuit, number one.

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> Speaker B>And we do that because we have a backbone network, and we're able to take that traffic and put it in a position to where we can manage the shortest, fastest, highest quality path. The second thing that we do, which is super important and really a core part of our value proposition, uh, it's the ability to fail over. So you and I are in this conversation right now, I can press a button and cut the Internet circuit that we're talking on now move over to another Internet circuit, uh, without you missing a beat with respect to the tone of my voice, or more specifically, the quality of an image. Again, I go back to the dermatology image, because that's such a sensitive use case. Um, and so the first thing, obviously, is quality. The second thing is failover. And then the third kind of leg of the stool is we provide prioritization of that traffic. So you might have a large environment where, let's say, a lawyer is giving a deposition to, uh, a client.

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> Speaker B>That's a very expensive engagement. You're paying lawyers, that kind of thing. Someone else in the same Internet circuit might be playing a digital game or downloading some type of content.

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> Speaker B>And so without, absent some type of management and control mechanism at the endpoint, the Internet, if you will, doesn't know your, uh, systems, don't know which traffic is more important than the other.

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> Speaker B>So, for instance, in my home right now, our conversation would take prioritization over my daughter, um, watching Netflix, for instance. And so again, big leaf networks, prioritization, quality and failover. Um, if I was summing it up for someone technical such as yourself, we can tell you what services are available, how those services are performing, and then dynamically switch you to whatever's available and whatever's going to give you the best experience at any moment in time. And that's essentially what the business does. It's not a very expensive product.

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> Speaker B>It's a couple of month to get it deployed. Um, and so we work a lot with businesses that have lots of locations.

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> Speaker B>So think of a tire shop that's running their entire business on cloud, point of sale, that kind of thing.

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> Speaker B>Um, uh, lots of locations. A mattress store, lots of locations. Uh, you want to keep the on premise piece very light. So anything that you can do above store, uh, cloud technologies, that becomes very attractive, and we facilitate that.

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> Speaker B>So, it's a super cool business founded by, uh, a guy named Joel Mulkey, who's an awesome guy and still sits on the board. Um, uh, we've got about 75 people in the business, and we're about a $20 million company.

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> Speaker A>Well, you have a lot of experience, and one of the things you have experience in is safety in the workplace. So, talk to the listeners about that and explain to them about your unique experiences as if it goes to safety in the workplace.

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> Speaker B>Yeah, I have a lot of perspective there. I don't necessarily know that I would have a lot of experience. Um, and this story tends to come up when I get into these types of conversations. So early in my career, I had an event, uh, in 1995. Um, one of my employees and an employee that I was somewhat close to, ah, came into a business that my brother and I owned and killed two of my employees and shot a third. Um, and it was a devastating blow, both professionally and personally.

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> Speaker B>So one of the girls that was killed, she was shot in my office. She was on my phone. She was a close friend of mine. She was my sort of alternative date. My wife and I were dating at the know. Stephanie would be the person I would go to a concert with or that kind of thing, if my wife wasn't available. She was a close friend of ours. And so I went through a personal sort of loss, and it was very difficult. It was very difficult for my brother, but also, at the same time, was going through a very much.

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> Speaker B>I was a young man. There was debt involved.

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> Speaker B>We had this business that a lot of people, my family, was kind of dependent on it. Obviously, my brother and I, both, uh, of our families, were dependent on it. And so I sort of stood at the crossroads of both personal trauma and professional trauma at the exact same time as a very young man. And it had a lasting. As you would expect, it had a lasting impact on me as we started to recover that business.

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> Speaker B>So the first thing we had to do is get over the shock and kind of get back on whatever footing was available to us.

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> Speaker B>But then I had to repair the business side of that. In addition to my sadness for Stephanie and the loss of life and the senselessness of that, it was also this need to build a business that could support the needs of, uh, everyone that was still alive and that still depended on this place to work. In other words, I couldn't give up, so I had to create an environment where productivity mattered on the heels of something traumatic. So just think about in a restaurant, the quality of the food is really important, but it's really not that important right after a couple of people were killed. So how do you transition from that one to the other? Because at the end of the day, two weeks later, the quality of the food is important again, and the way that this business runs and the operation and all that stuff has to go on. So I had to sort of think through. I had to metabolize my own trauma and figure out, how do I get myself working again? How do I get myself on sure footing? And then I also had to do the same thing for a relatively large staff and then sort of overarching. All that was my recognition that it was time for me to get out of the restaurant business and go find something that had a little bit less risk and a little more upside, um, over a two year period. So 95 96, really, to 98, 99, I got very comfortable and very familiar with what's the environment, uh, in which people will perform.

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> Speaker B>Basically where I landed was if people don't feel physically safe, then they're probably not going to perform well. And there's a couple of examples that are less dramatic, maybe, uh, but a divorce would be an example of a situation where people may not feel safe. Uh, um, that might not be the best example of a physical safety, but certainly somebody that's fighting cancer, for instance. It's very difficult for them to metabolize that and to focus on work. So if you're not physically safe, chances are you're not going to perform at a high level professional safety.

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> Speaker B>And this sort of took a little bit longer before I started caring about anything other than the physical safety of folks. But again, you have to operate and run and run your business. And so this concept of professional safety, I am confident, um, in that what I'm doing is consistent with what I'm good at, and it's the right thing for me to be doing professionally.

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> Speaker B>If people are uncertain about that, think about in transition or moving from one job to another, it's very difficult for people to stay on task and stay focused.

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> Speaker B>Intellectual safety, and this one's really important, I think, of creative teams where this really resonates.

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> Speaker B>Uh, um, but you have to create an environment. If people don't feel like they can speak their mind and people don't feel like they're in a safe place to represent their interest, if you will, then they're not going to perform very well. And then kind of last but not least, there's this concept of financial safety.

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> Speaker B>So if people don't feel as though, if the workforce doesn't feel as though they're financially safe, you're going to miss payroll, those kind of things, then all of those things lead to low performance. And I had all of those happening again as a pretty young person, uh, with a relatively young and inexperienced workforce, because these are, in a lot of cases, college folks. But it latched on. Uh, I need to create a physically safe environment. The doors need to be locked. We need to make sure that what happened here can never happen again. People need to know that, hey, this business is going to survive, and we're going to do what we need to get the business on sure footing.

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> Speaker B>I'm interested in what everyone has to say, I'm interested in how you're recovering from this, and if we think we're not going to make it and we think that the business isn't going to be able to survive this event, you all will know well in advance. And the better I became at, uh, transferring those sentiments and those feelings to the workforce, the better and better that we performed. And so as I moved out of the restaurant business, which is awesome, by the way, I think everyone should train in an economy as fast as the restaurant business.

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> Speaker B>The whole buy sell relationship, the customer interaction, takes about 45 minutes. You're going through that 45 minutes economy hundreds of times during a lunch shift. And so you really become pretty fast on your feet as it relates to how to run a business, how to deal with people, how to buy, how to sell, how to execute, how to deliver, how to communicate.

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> Speaker B>So I love that business for that.

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> Speaker B>Um, however, I moved on and got into technology, uh, and into technology sales at first in 2020, and then on into executive management kind of along that journey.

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> Speaker B>A lot of what I do professionally is I'm coming into businesses that are, uh, someone founded this business, and it's on its way. They go out and they get private equity or venture capital funding, and then something happens.

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> Speaker B>Either the entrepreneur doesn't have the skill set to do the next thing. People get tired and the business isn't performing well. And that tends to be the time when I step into the business. So the first thing that I need to do is get people performing. And so this concept of what I learned at calendars, restaurant and bar in 1995 really lent itself to my management style as I sort of moved through, as I moved through my career. Now, I know that people aren't going to perform well if they're not physically safe. I know that they're not going to perform well if they're not intellectually safe, if they don't trust that they're in the right role, doing the right thing, or that I'm not managing the business in such a way that we're going to be able to withstand swings in the market and those kind of things, then people are going to look over their shoulder. And what I want them to do is, I call it ears pinned back. Uh, I want them to focus on moving forward and not worry about that. And so to the extent that I can create that sort of environment, that's where I get high performance yield from the workforce.

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> Speaker B>That sort of has been what has defined my management style over the last 20 years. You follow that, Curtis?

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> Speaker A>Absolutely. Well, let's talk about how the lack of trust among employees can hinder a company when it's trying to scale up and grow.

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> Speaker B>Yeah. If you don't know what you're looking for, then the chance that you're going to find it is pretty low. Sometimes, uh, you stumble across something and you sort of retrofit. Wow, this is amazing.

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> Speaker B>But generally speaking, the requirements for hitting goals is understanding exactly what they are. So the first thing that I think about is every business, every team, you need very clear goals, and those goals need to be effectively communicated. Um, without that, you sort of have nothing, and people need to trust in that. The second thing is the environment that you operate in, back to the safety topic, really needs. You need psychological, uh, safety and you need trust. And what I mean by that is you have to create an environment where people feel comfortable taking risk. You have to create an environment where people are comfortable sharing their opinions. You have to create an environment. I'm sure you do a lot of this on the show. You have to create an environment where people are comfortable displaying vulnerability without the fear of retribution for that. Um, and that's super important. Kind of beyond that. In order to create a high performing environment, you really need a diverse set of skills and you need some artistic creativity, if you will.

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> Speaker B>And you need accountability, you need healthy conflict resolution, and you need to celebrate wins. And so I think what's important is that you create that environment where people understand that, uh, hey, this is how we're going to operate. Absent that, more to the point that you asked, what you end up with is distracted workforce and low productivity. Again, to go back to the goals thing, if people aren't clear on goals, then they ask a lot of questions. When they ask a lot of questions, you burn a lot of calories answering questions over and over again and trying to keep people aligned, uh, uh, against the goals.

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> Speaker B>So what I encourage is you really need a transparent, fixed set of goals that everyone understands and you need to move toward that. And then all the other things I mentioned become supporting table stakes in support of hitting those goals.

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> Speaker A>What advice would you give to business leaders, especially in the early stage of scaling and growth? What advice would you give them about the need to, uh, highly prioritize trust and safety among their staff and employees?

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> Speaker B>So the first advice I give to anyone, and I live by this because a lot of times when I'm coming in, um, I'm sort of flat footed and I'm just walking into the business and I need to find out what's happening. The first thing is I would look to the corners of the business. What is it that's happening at the individual contributor level, down at the ground level in parts of the business? That may not be obvious, because in a lot of cases, that's where the talent lies. Um, I'm always looking for people that are a lot smarter than they realize and a lot better than they realize. Um, and so my advice, out of the box, number one, would be go look for that and try to create connections with the entire organization and understand kind of what is happening in the corners and where does the talent lie.

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> Speaker B>The second thing is, it's important, and a lot of leaders struggle with this.

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> Speaker B>Um, my journey hasn't been paved with blue skies and green lights and low friction. I've had to work for what feels like every step that I've taken. And through that, I've gained perspective, I think, on, and I've moved around a lot.

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> Speaker B>I've worked in London, I've worked here. I've worked here in the southern part of the know. My office is in Portland. I've worked in New York, Chicago. So I've been around a bit in terms of different cultures. Um, and I think what that's created is perspective, and I think that's important. And so if you've been falsely accused of something, you can relate to someone that's going through being falsely accused, for instance, if you've been through a sickness or cancer or anything like that, and I bring that up because one of our executives is dealing with that, uh, today, when you go through these things, you understand how it feels to go through these things. Well, not everyone can experience everything.

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> Speaker B>So what I encourage, second, from looking to the corners of the business, is gain the perspective and be realistic about what people are going through. If people don't know what to do and if they're worried about whether or not the business is going to survive, and they don't trust that they can speak up, and they don't necessarily trust that the people around them are speaking up either. They're not going to perform well. And if you just spend a little bit of time thinking about that, of course not.

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> Speaker B>I can tell you I've had things that have popped up in my life. Strain, if you will. Uh, my parents went through what felt like seven years of slow death, if you will, uh, as they were getting older, and that was very difficult for me. It was very difficult for me to stay on task. It's very difficult for me to stay focused. A lot of times, I was losing both of my parents gaining that perspective? Not necessarily. Look, the personal element of business is very important, and most of my friends are people that I've worked with, um, along the way. My wife and I worked together when we were in college. So, uh, it's all very personal. However, on the professional side, people need to think, like, how would I respond if I were, again, insert something that targets the safety and well being of the workforce, and then you need to adjust to that. So if you have, uh, an executive that's going through. Again, I use divorce because it's so dramatic, but that's going through something. Understand that, and then think through what the ramifications of that are going to be. Sort of less dramatic is think through. How do people respond when they're not certain of what to do? I call it lining up.

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> Speaker B>People would just wander around in the DMV if they didn't have order and align to what they're doing. It would be chaos. One of the things that I look for is what is our line, what is our order and what are we moving toward? And we want to keep people aligned with that. If we don't have that, then we really set the stage for lateral slippage. And what I mean by that is people are peeling out, they're starting to look to the left and to the right.

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> Speaker B>They're looking over their shoulder, they're worried about themselves and that kind of thing. So the headline, Curtis, is pay attention, dial into what's happening in all parts of the business and then be realistic with respect to perspective and be realistic about how people are going to respond to current events. And then do your part as a leader to make sure that you're trying to foster an environment that has all of the attributes of high performance. Again, clear goals, trust and psychological safety, diverse skills that are apparent, accountability where you need it, conflict resolution that is healthy, um, and I mentioned before, but also an environment that celebrates wins, that reinforces that, hey, we're moving in the right direction and it's effective.

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> Speaker B>So that's the advice I give myself every day. So hopefully that resonates with some of your listeners.

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> Speaker A>Well, tell us about any current or upcoming projects that you or big Leaf are working on that the listeners need to know about.

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> Speaker B>Well, so we talked about the concept of, um, I'm running a business, that business connects to the Internet. Um, and I need to run mission critical, high quality applications over this. Again, think of it as medical images and those kind of things.

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> Speaker B>The environment is changing. So we have, um, number one, the mission critical nature of this Internet connection is getting greater and greater and greater. And then think about what happened yesterday at t was down, there was a major outage. People couldn't process, um, um, a large percentage of the United States couldn't get, um, prescriptions filled yesterday. And so outages are terrible.

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> Speaker B>One of the things that's required here is what else is available to us in terms of connectivity.

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> Speaker B>So you think of things like Starlink, think of things like our five g and fixed wireless solutions. So the next thing for big Leaf is really expanding our connectivity capability to be able to accommodate a different set of circuits, for instance, Starlink or for instance, 5g, those kinds of things. And so we've been working on that project. I was fortunate enough, uh, to get connected with, uh, a gentleman who was the chief product officer for Verizon, uh, their small business unit, a guy named Dave Idol. He joined the business about a little over a year ago, uh, and he's driving us toward the next phase of our evolution. In parallel with that, we will, um, update our user interface, which is a big, meaty project that really sets us up to do some integrations in some areas that you'll find interesting. For instance, right now, today, part of our value proposition is that we're security agnostic and we don't force people to change their firewall and do those kind of things when we deploy. And it's been a great deal for us well, in the future, and as we move forward, there are security things that we can add to our solution that probably would lighten, that will most certainly lighten the overall investment in the footprint required for this kind of distributed edge that we talked about. Again, the haircut, the dermatologist, those kinds of things.

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> Speaker B>Um, and so broader connectivity options, a more contemporary user interface with the ability to do a lot more integrations, uh, as well as, um, we start to deploy security features, um, as we move forward. So I'm excited about where the business is and where we're going well, so.

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> Speaker A>Listeners can keep up with everything that you're up to. Throw out your contact info.

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> Speaker B>What is my contact info? Is that the question? Sorry, Curtis.

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> Speaker A>Yeah, throw out your contact info.

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> Speaker B>Yeah, so, uh, I'm easy to find. You can find me on LinkedIn, uh, again, Greg Davis, and then my email address is gdavis at big Leaf net. Uh, and I'd love to hear from any of your listeners that are interested.

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> Speaker A>Close aside, with some final thoughts. Maybe if it was something that I forgot to talk about or that you would like to touch on or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners?

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> Speaker B>Yeah, look, I would encourage everyone, uh, to really think through performance and high performance, and what are the things that we need to do to get the group and that group. It could be a team, it could be your workforce. It could be, theoretically, your friend group. What does it take to get the group performing at the highest level and then foster that, build that in particular as it relates to running businesses, the best thing that you can do as a leader is get people to their goals, not be constructive about how they need to write emails or how they need to do things better. The best thing that you can do for the people around you is help them get to their goals. And the best way to do that is to create an environment that focuses on that. And so again, if there's anything that I can do for your listeners to help people stay, to lend my advice to people that are trying to build a higher and higher performing workforce, then I'm certainly here for that.

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> Speaker A>Absolutely, listeners. So contact Greg, uh, big leaf. If you need anything from them, please be sure to follow rate review. Share this episode to as many people as possible if they need anything from Greg or Big Leaf. If you have any guest or suggestion topics, Cjackson 102 ah@cox.net is the place to send them. As always, thank you for listening. And Greg, thank you for joining us.

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> Speaker B>Thank you, Curtis. Have a great weekend.

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> Speaker A>For more information on the living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurveball.com.

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> Speaker A>Until next time, stay focused on living the dream.

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> Speaker B>Dream.