Aug. 13, 2024

Living the dream with podcast host and mental health advocate/psychiatrist Dr. Fred Moss

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In this episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, host Curveball engages in a profound conversation with Dr. Fred Moss, a psychiatrist, podcast host, and the founder of Welcome to Humanity. Dr. Moss shares his unique perspective on mental health, emphasizing the importance of human connection and authentic communication in the healing process.
https://drfred360.com/
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> Curtis Jackson>Welcome, to the Living the Dream podcast with curveball. if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the living a Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today, we're going to be talking mental health, as I am joined by podcast host, psychiatrist, and mental health advocate doctor Fred Moss. Fred is the founder of welcome to humanity.

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> Curtis Jackson>As I said, he's a podcast host and a psychiatrist, and he focuses on giving his patients the best care possible and helping people be heard. So, doctor Moss, thank you so much for joining me today.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Curtis, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Yeah, I focus on helping people be heard, because, in fact, human connection is at the heart of all healing. And, anything psychiatry does doesn't typically do that. So that what sets me off or sets me kind of different from my brethren is that psychiatrists are no longer typecast to be the ones who listen to people and actually connect to them. Right. When you come into the mental health system, if what you want to do is talk to somebody, you don't go to a psychiatrist. You go to some of the other players, psychologists, social workers, counselors, nurse practitioners, physician assistant. And so the idea is that psychiatry is maybe the father or the leader or the top of the totem pole of the whole group.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>But by the time you go into psychiatry, you tell me, when I ask you what's different about a psychiatrist than anyone else, almost everybody has the same answer. My guess is, Curtis, that you have the same answer, too. What's different about psychiatry? What can we do that nobody else does?

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> Curtis Jackson>Psychiatrists can prescribe medicine.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Exactly. That's what the answer I was looking for, Curtis. But that's not the answer that sets me aside. In other words, of course I can prescribe medicines. I have a license to do that.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>But I don't find that diagnosing people and giving them medicine is the best route to take to bring somebody to an optimized mental health circumstance. Because what people are looking for more than anything is to be connected to another human being and to be heard and resonated. And I, you know, like, harmonically, actually, understood by another human being and sharing with that human being effectively and authentically, is where healing always emanates from.

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> Curtis Jackson>Absolutely.

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> Curtis Jackson>So, tell us about welcome to humanity.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Yeah, so, welcome to humanity. is about, I'd say it's about five or six years old now in its entity. And really, here's the thing about it. It's something that got its name in a true fashion, you know, it's really what my life has been about. So I arrived to the world, right, with a couple older brothers in my family. I have a ten year old brother and a 14 year old brother when I'm born.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And I see them communicating effectively or ineffectively in a world of chaos and tumult, turmoil inside of my family. And I'm called on that very day to bring joy and love to a family that's in a fair amount of disarray, right?

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And my brothers and my parents had told me that I did a pretty good job, at least for the first couple of years. I don't think I've done a good job every day since then, but that's a different question, right? For my first couple years, I was the bundle of joy that they were looking for and what I really wanted to do more than anything. And, you know, there's the essence of welcome to humanity. I'm born right then into a family. It's like, okay, Fred, welcome to humanity. This is what you got.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And they, teach me a lot of things when I'm very young. they teach, you know, I begin pretty precocious. They teach me about people. They teach me about things that most kindergarteners don't know. They teach me how to read. They teach me how to write. They teach me about music. They teach me a little bit about sex, a little bit about violence, a little bit about drugs. Before too long, I know way more than the average kindergartner, right? And I enter elementary school with the idea that maybe I know a little bit. And I, more than anything, am eager to learn how to communicate and eager to learn how to connect with other people.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Instead, what I'm taught in school is to sit down, be quiet, do what the teacher asked me to do, and do it like they do it. And that way I can pass to the next grade. I was like, wait, what do you mean, stifle and muffle? What is that all about? I'm coming to school so I can learn how to communicate. As you can imagine, there's no elementary school teacher who would ever forget having fred as one of his students.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Because over the next several years, that's what I did. I did what I could to talk and to create communication.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>But this didn't always work. So I kept on figuring, well, I'll learn how to communicate when I get to be a big boy. Maybe in, junior high. And then it got worse in junior high or maybe in high school. And it got even worse in high. School.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So I decided, well, it must have happened in college because that's where the protests are happening. That's where people learn how to communicate. And because they had such awesome helmets and they were only 40 miles away to the west, I decided to attend college at the University of Michigan. I went to University of Michigan, and I was in engineering school for a while, and that didn't work out. So I actually dropped out of m college, and I got on a greyhound bus and went to Berkeley, California to capture myself, like, learn, who is this guy? What am I? You know, find myself. And I did that that summer. but it wasn't sustainable. My family encouraged me to come back and go to college one more time because there was this new industry out there, you might have heard of this industry, it's actually called computers. And I was like, you're going to be good at computers. Okay, I'll come back. I don't even know what a computer is. And the only computer in all of, Michigan was at the University of Michigan. So back I went to the University of Michigan and learned how to do computers, batch jobs, punch cards, all night long, sitting in the two acre computer room. It's like, dude, I'm not going to do this either. I just need to tell you, it's not my life, it's not communication.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So I dropped out again and got a job working in, you know, my mom's like, you don't have to ever go back to school again, but you need to work. And I was like, okay, okay, mom, let's get a job then. So, she got me an application for a job working in an adolescent, state hospital. All right, for mental health. State mental health hospital.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And, here I finally got to communicate, I hear I was finally being able to communicate and heal people. Like in my communication, these kids, only six or seven years younger than me, were healing.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And it was really great. They were healing. I was healing everyone in the, any time we connected with people, whether it be with other staff or me, with, kids or, there was like a healing, like, I knew that communication was working.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So we fast forward, because really I decided, I want to go into psychiatry. And the reason I want to go psychiatry is to bring communication into that field. Because psychiatry was already turning left. It was already becoming a field that was a little bit more based on medicine than I was comfortable with. And I wanted to really do this work through communication.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So back to school I went for a third time, finished off my degree, finished off my medical school, finished off my residency finished off my fellowship, and boom, I'm a psychiatrist. And I've been a psychiatrist now for 36 years. Now, in those 36 years, those first half of my career was spent being a standard psychiatrist, doing what you already said, like diagnosing people and giving people medicine the way I was taught, even though I wasn't aligned with it. There was a lot of soul sacrifice, a lot of, you know, heartache. I was still doing that. In 2006, I finally got sick and tired of doing that. I did something that my friends and colleagues thought was pretty radical, which is I stopped giving medicine to people. I didn't stop. I took some people off of medicine, some of my less risky clients, I took them off their medicine. People thought that was pretty radical. But in fact, these people got better, way better, way reliably better as a result of coming off their medicine. Many of them lost their diagnoses altogether as a, ah, function of that.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So, over time, I started really realizing that these diagnoses and medicines weren't working for people and wanted to shout that from the mountaintops. But that doesn't work to be violent about things. We already know that. And so I learned how to taper it a little bit, how to temper it, and how to have a conversation about it. And what became clear to me is that if people realized that there was nothing wrong with them, if somehow people realized that there was not a problem, that being uncomfortable in an uncomfortable world is to be expected. There's plenty to be afraid of, there's plenty to be nervous about, there's plenty to be depressed about, there's plenty to be confused about, there's plenty to be scattered about, there's plenty of social environments that are really awkward. There's plenty of things that are difficult in this world. And just experiencing those things doesn't mean you have a mental illness. Well, if people could learn that about themselves, then they wouldn't have to go get a diagnosis because they wouldn't need to be fixed. And if they didn't need to be fixed, and they wouldn't have to take these medications, which somehow they think they need. And if they didn't have to take the medicines, they wouldn't have to face the notion that these medicines are actually causing the problems they're marketed to treat.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>You hear what I'm saying? They're actually causing, actually inducing, perpetuating, increasing, and in many cases, causing the symptoms they're marketed to treat.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Now, since that's the case, it's a great business model, right?

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> Dr. Fred Moss>But it doesn't really work, because I gave an oath when I graduated medical school. That oath was first, do no harm.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And here I wasn't sure that I wasn't doing harm.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So we went around. I kind of closed off my practice, started doing a lot of traveling around the country and then around the world to see how people are being treated. I was all over the country doing, you know, traveling doc work, and then went to Asia a few times, and I went to Europe many times. And I, did telehealth from these countries back into the US.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And I really began to see that what we need to do more than anything is embrace this human experience for everything that it is, everything that it is, and everything that it isn't. Look, there are parts of life that are just totally miserable, very, very painful. You know, they're almost intolerable, they're unspeakable. They're totally frightening and totally difficult, and they create a sense of despair.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And that's okay. Like, it's okay if we all just realize that collectively.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Now you start seeing that the obvious answer to all this, the sentence or the brand that naturally would get birth out of all this, is something called welcome to humanity. And welcome to humanity was created as a way of embracing the entire human experience.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Getting the whole human experience, including the beautiful, ecstatic, miraculous stuff, as well as the miserable, intolerable, painful stuff, putting it all together and realizing that to be human is a thing.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And we have been gifted with the opportunity to become human on a world that is delivering the entire smorgasbord, you know, like, you've probably been to a brazilian steakhouse, and they have that smorgasbord, which has every kind of food you'd ever imagine at the salad bar. That's what this life is. It's like we have everything here. And welcome to humanity, because once we can really embrace welcome to humanity and get the nature of this human experience to be all flavors of all types, then we don't have to call ourselves sick. And the possibility of stepping into our own humanity, creating our own health and our own groundedness, and then walking with that groundedness to help others receive and achieve the same outcome, becomes very available. So what's sprouted from welcome to humanity is the true voice technology that I'm also the founder of, as well as the Creative eight, a book that I wrote, meaning creativity helps, manage these discomforts as well that come with being human.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And the moss method and the Mos method, really looking at natural ways to deal with being uncomfortable in this world, including gratitude, including mindfulness, including nutrition, including nature, including creativity, including spirituality, including service, including drinking really good water, and including pets, and many different. There's 20 different aspects to this that really help people step into their own power by realizing that sometimes in this life, you're not going to feel very powerful. And that's completely okay.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Welcome to humanity is a common answer to nearly anything that anyone says about life is fantastic. You can always say welcome to humanity.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>When they say life just sucks. You can say, welcome to humanity when people say life is boring.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Welcome to humanity. Welcome to Humanity becomes the overarching, obvious nature of who Doctor Fred is. But I'm not that special. That's why it includes welcome to humanity.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Well, one thing I know about the 7.8 billion people that are walking the face of the earth is that each one of them is human. Welcome to humanity. That's how we got here.

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> Curtis Jackson>And you also say that mental health is just a conversation. So what do you mean by that?

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Yeah, so mental health is just conversation. Mental illness is a conversation. Basically, it's the whole point that mental illness is a conversation. In other words, when you have a broken arm, right?

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> Dr. Fred Moss>You have a broken arm and you live in Wichita, Kansas.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>If you take that broken arm to Singapore, it's still going to be a broken arm. You take that broken arm to Reykjavik, it's a broken arm. You come here to Grass Valley, you still got a broken arm.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>It's a broken arm. Mental illness and mental health isn't that way. What's mentally ill in Sacramento, or what's mentally ill in Wichita? What's mentally ill in London isn't necessarily mentally ill in Zimbabwe or Rwanda or Auckland or Sydney. That's not true. The conversation shifts based on the culture and the taboos and the understandings of what normal is inside of those cultures. So you start seeing that mental illnesses does not have a firm definition.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>In fact, mental health does not have a firm definition. No one has ever defined what it means to be mentally healthy in a way that is universally accepted. It just is like, if you're going along with the general theme of, your basic community, environment, the prevailing conversation that supports mental health, and you're called mentally healthy. As long as you're doing mostly what everyone else is doing that they have determined must be called mentally healthy, then you're called mentally health, mentally healthy. And mental illness becomes something. Even if even the idea of hearing voices, of being really sad and calling yourself clinically depressed or being really anxious and calling yourself panicky or being really addicted to things and finding yourself going down that train, that doesn't mean that you're mentally unhealthy. That means that you're having those experiences as part of life and as that is your management mindset tool. But the truth is, by dealing with it as simply a conversation that is, in fact, pretty vague on the edges. pretty arbitrary, in fact.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>On the edges, we have access to altering what it is that we think is sick and what it is that we think is not. It's very interesting. There's a real powerful, gradient that gets created between the diagnosers and the receptors. People want. People want to be confirmed that there's something wrong with them and there's diagnosers who like telling people what's wrong with them. So it's a pretty cool combination of humans who like telling people what's wrong with them and people who want to believe there's something wrong with them when there's something wrong with us. When I can tell you, you know, Curtis, I know I've just been a jerk, but it wasn't me. It was my ADHD, Curtis, it wasn't me. It was my bad. It wasn't me. It was my major depression. It was my narcissistic personality disorder.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>It was my autistic spectrum disorder.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Whatever I want to say, then, in some ways, I get to relinquish responsibility for my actions and thoughts that I'm not very proud of.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Let me make one really important disclaimer here that I really want your listeners to hear. There's a good group of people who feel that they've gotten their diagnosis and they've gotten their treatment or taking medicines, and it's the best thing that's ever happened to them. And it wouldn't trade it for the world. That's just where they are. They're totally happy. They can't imagine life being better than it is. They're so happy taking their medicine. They're so proud of their own diagnosis, and everything's working great for that group of people.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>This conversation is not for them. I'm not here to argue with that. If you got that going on with your life, please absolutely continue to do whatever you're doing. I'm not selling you that it's not working for you. If you're really certain it is, that's great for you. And if you get to anywhere in life where you're that certain about something, please continue doing it. However, this conversation is aimed at the tens, if not hundreds of millions of people who understand exactly what I'm talking about and feel misdiagnosed, under diagnosed, over diagnosed, mistreated, under treated, over treated, and really get that the mental health system is not working on their behalf, and that their whole conversation about whether or not they're mentally ill is arbitrary. And in fact, they can be seen and heard for absolute normal human beings, even when they're totally and completely uncomfortable with the low aid life that's going.

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> Curtis Jackson>Okay. So let the listeners know about your podcast.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So I have a podcast now, and, it's, ah, sitting modestly dormant right now. I have a podcast called the Healthy Healer, and the healthy healer interviews a lot of healers, who have been out there actually making a difference and in their own way, have found their own health and then brought it out into the public to tell other people what works for them and to teach other people how to find their own true self, how to find their own true pathways that work for them by utilizing whatever unique, healthy mechanisms that they have designed or found or discovered for themselves in their trek through life on their own. I have another podcast that I did called welcome to humanity. And welcome to Humanity was the original podcast that I did, and I think we dropped about 120, episodes of some of the most amazing authors and artists and, change makers in the world. Went super conversations that went pretty viral here and there. I'm really proud of the welcome to Humanity podcast. It's.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>That's also sitting dormant at this point.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And, even a third set of podcasts that I did that was called insanity. That was two words with my friend Sam Morris as a, co, ah, a co host for that. And we interviewed people, really, again, some super great, very powerful people, into what it really means to be sane or insane. And this whole idea of the watery nature of, of, you know, the arbitrary and rather vague edges of what it means to be mentally healthy or mentally ill. And those conversations were great. And then, of course, I've been on over 200 podcasts as a guest. And, most of those conversations, like this one, are super fun for me. I'm super interested in. I love being a guest on these shows. It's part of it is to really spotlight what's here for you. Who are you? Who are you, and where do you stand with these issues? Super interesting to me. And what about your listeners? You know, how can I be helpful or be of any kind of service to your listeners? And, you know, what kind of partnerships or ideas can we share to actually make a difference in this crazy world that we're trying to live through.

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> Curtis Jackson>So how can someone know if they are mentally ill or not?

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> Dr. Fred Moss>That's a really good question. So I don't have it that most people are mentally ill, and people want to believe that they're mentally ill. I'm telling you, a real phenomena that happens in psychiatry that's really interesting, which is in psychiatry, when people come to you and you and you, as a psychiatrist, as a doctor, do a full assessment of them, and you tell them that they're okay, they get pissed. It's like, no other doctor has to deal with that. Like, you know, you go to an oncologist, or you go to cardiologist, you go to a proctologist, you go to ophthalmologist, and they tell you everything's okay. You're like, okay, cool, I'm glad. You know, in psychiatry, people want to hear that there's something wrong with them. So there's a real press to hear that there's something wrong with us. And what I really like to focus on more than anything is not how do you know you're mentally ill. It's how can we adjust your world so that you can realize you're not mentally ill. but you're actually bumbling and tumbling through a challenging, obstacle ridden world, trying to make the best of it, just like we all are. And, in fact, you might not have any mental illness. There might be a way of just altering your mindset, utilizing your strengths and weaknesses and self observations to actually step in this world without having to take on the burden of being mentally ill. It's much more my focus than telling people how they should know whether or not they're mentally ill.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>They should really consider the possibility that there might be nothing wrong with them in the first place. And that's what I'm here to really emphasize.

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> Curtis Jackson>Well, talk about how you feel that humanity is affected by today's AI era.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>That's a good question, too. So one of the programs that I put together was, aimeetimentalhealth.com dot.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>AI is a massive, you, know, a massive influence on our psyche, on our collective psyche.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And, a lot of people are using AI, to figure out whether or not there's something wrong with them. A lot of people are using AI to actually represent their own thinking and their own brain. So you can ask AI, ask Claude, or ask perplexity, or ask, you know, chat, GPT, whatever you want to ask, and then they give an answer. Then you become that answer, and you believe that answer. To be true and to be you.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>this is a fairly dangerous situation as you now let go of that which you've developed for yourself and give it to the expert. some people call AI, an entity with an iq of 500 that's right at our fingertips at any given time, and only getting smarter each and every day. So when we lean on AI to actually become who we thought we were, there's something deeply inauthentic about that and we have to be concerned about it.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>On the other hand, AI has plenty of things to offer.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>I've used AI many times already today, for instance, you know, I'm writing a book and I'm using AI as my backdrop for a lot of different research questions. And I love using AI. I love chat, TPD, I love Claude, I love perplexity, I love, you know, all the AI driven, programs and even, even some of the, programs that create webinars or eleven labs, or all the many ways that we can create videos and create, you know, presentations or they say, my wife and I like to joke, they create content, content, content, right? And, AI really offers all of that very super powerfully, like we've never seen before.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>And it really is affecting an individual or, eye psyche. You know, all of a sudden, we are not the smallest, smartest species on the planet. There is this other species sitting there that we can ask questions that just turns out these ridiculously powerful answers in seconds. And it's stuff that would have taken us months to actually even discover. And, you know, that clearly has an effect on our own sense of mental health and mental illness. But it's just another example of just experiencing this technology and getting that we can still be really stand strong inside of who we are as humans. Even faced with a technology that is both innovating and super powerful in producing results that we're attending to produce in the areas that really matter to us.

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> Curtis Jackson>Tell us about the undoctor philosophy, and when you feel is the right time to apply it.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So the undoctorate philosophy is something that really got developed in 2006 and then got its name about ten years later from a friend who affectionately gave me that moniker. Thanks for asking.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So the undoctor really takes a look at, well, how am I going to get the point across that these diagnoses and these medications aren't really doing what they should? I can't get mad at them, I can't, you know, the medicines are just things, right? I can't get mad at the industry because that's just a thing. It's not. There's no person. There's nobody making any real decisions there. It's just a thing. It's just an entity, a, corporation. I can't get mad at industry, at, ah, insurance. I can't get mad at pharmacology. Big pharma. Those are just funny things to point our fingers to, but don't really make any difference. So what did I do? Is I started looking at where can I make a difference? And where I can make a difference is really looking at, well, exactly what I've said a couple times in this conversation already. If we can get people to realize that maybe there's nothing wrong with them, then in that process, they won't even seek, psychiatric assistance. And we've already decided, what does a psychiatrist do? A psychiatrist is the one to prescribe medicine. And if these medicines are actually making people worse, or at the very least, not making them better, and at the very worst, maybe even causing the symptoms they're marketed to treat, well, then I don't want to send people down that route. So the undoctor, what the undoctor does is it takes people, it helps them undiagnose, and then because of that, unmedicate and because of that, undoctrinate, meaning they don't have to enter the mental health system to learn that there's something wrong with them. Because, in fact, maybe they can stay out of the system, get the kind of support and connection they need to realize that all their bumbling and all their tumbling and all their troubles and trials and tribulations of being human is part of the welcome to humanity phenomena known as just being like a human being. Like, that's what happens in this when you're a person, as you get to deal with all the complexities of life and all the simplicities of life. My guess is, if I ask you right now, if at any time today you have been deeply uncomfortable, your answer will probably be yes. Now, maybe not. maybe you have a blessed life and you haven't been uncomfortable yet. But my guess is that nearly every one of us is uncomfortable many, many times a day. And when we start looking at that, we can start realizing that it's so universal that there's nothing wrong with us. And what the undoctor does is undiagnosed people unmedicate people, and in the process, undoctrinate people so they don't have to walk into the meat grinder of the mental health system.

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> Curtis Jackson>Well, tell us about any current or upcoming projects that you're working on that people need to be aware of.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>So thank you for asking about that, too. My newest project has to do with creating a school community.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Skol. That's Alex Ramosi's program. You know, working with, creating communities and getting people like minded individuals, people who are coaches, people are therapists, people who are interested in learning techniques to help people find their true voice and actually become aware of all the difficulties that it means to be human, embracing the entire human experience, as well as people who are going through life and feel like there might be something wrong with them or that they're ultimately very stuck and putting these people in a program or in a community together, that is mindfulness based. We will have a mindfulness training every single morning, and, we'll take on some lessons and inspirations, aspirations, like things that we can do each and every day. out of the creative eight, the book that I wrote, or out of, you know, what other people might have bring to the program, whether that's through, articles that are coming out. This is a new movement. This a movement that, over the last decade, has really taken some traction.

00:27:32.518 --> 00:28:26.200
> Dr. Fred Moss>People are starting to realize that the mental health system is kind of broken. And so for the people who realize that and who want a community for which we can learn not to disrespect each other, this isn't about disrespect. Disagreements are welcome. Disrespect is prohibited. We don't want people to disrespect. Just because someone doesn't believe the same way that you believe about a particular divisive issue doesn't call for disrespect at any level. So, this is a group that can learn how to get along and work together to create positive, progressive methodologies and practices that can move the whole human, phenomena forward, that can move humans in a direction that is actually a, ah, pathway to freedom and power. And that's what the school community is about. And you could probably guess what the school community is called. You're right. Welcome to humanity.

00:28:26.311 --> 00:28:28.016
> Curtis Jackson>Yeah, welcome to humanity.

00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:29.084
> Dr. Fred Moss>Exactly.

00:28:29.384 --> 00:28:34.895
> Curtis Jackson>So throw out your contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

00:28:35.039 --> 00:29:04.569
> Dr. Fred Moss>Yeah, so, the contact info. I have a number of places that I buzz around, but my coaches and my advisors remind me that I don't tell people everywhere I am because that's not going to work. People get all, bent out of shape and, you know, don't know exactly which one to point to. So the two places that I like to send people are my two way main websites. Which is drfred three 60.com. That's a very active site where you can see all my podcasts and see all of my papers and get, copies of my books and get a discovery call with me.

00:29:04.594 --> 00:29:07.397
> Dr. Fred Moss>And there's lead magnets and all that stuff just hanging out there.

00:29:07.627 --> 00:29:16.867
> Dr. Fred Moss>that's a fun little site. Drfred three 60.com, or my main website, which has been around for a while, about six years. And guess what the name of that website is?

00:29:18.127 --> 00:29:19.624
> Curtis Jackson>Welcome to humanity.

00:29:19.776 --> 00:29:23.147
> Dr. Fred Moss>Exactly. Welcome to Humanity.net dot. That's how you can find me there.

00:29:23.607 --> 00:29:30.627
> Curtis Jackson>We'll close us out with some final thoughts, maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, or any final thoughts you have for the listeners?

00:29:32.248 --> 00:29:35.228
> Dr. Fred Moss>Gosh, I don't know. I think you've really touched on.

00:29:35.268 --> 00:29:38.107
> Dr. Fred Moss>Thanks for doing your research before you talk to me. I appreciate that.

00:29:38.057 --> 00:29:46.842
> Dr. Fred Moss>very much. you know what's the most important thing to me? The most important thing to me is to be a human. And this is really more important than me going and creating a growing business.

00:29:46.890 --> 00:31:09.258
> Dr. Fred Moss>Like, I'm starting to realize that there's a transformation that Doctor fred needs to go through here. I'm at a point where, paying attention to my wife and paying attention to my life and paying attention to what really matters to me is super important. Like, I start getting that just being out there to create an entity, to create a brand, you know, to create a funnel system, or to create like conversion rates, or create coaching clients and all that stuff. Well, that's all super interesting, but I'm tired of bending over backwards and, you know, and, going through all sorts of theatrics and acrobatics to make that happen, when in fact, what's really important is Doctor Fred needs to start living the life that I've designed for other people, which really takes into consideration, although the moss method, everything that balkan humanity is about, and I need to become aware of myself in a welcome to humanity fashion, because I too am human. And because I'm human, I equally fall easily fall into being human, you know, into thinking there's something wrong with me, or thinking that life is miserable or it doesn't matter and all that. And so I guess I want your listeners to know is I am not above the crowd. I am in the center of the crowd. I am just as much a human with all the foibles and trials and tribulations of any human out there. And it's important for me to take on what I say instead of just speaking it to others as if I'm sitting on a high horse. So that's, I think, really important.

00:31:10.837 --> 00:31:18.847
> Curtis Jackson>All right, ladies and gentlemen, doctor, Fred three 60.com. Check him out. Check out everything that he's up to. Check out his podcast.

00:31:19.307 --> 00:31:33.329
> Curtis Jackson>Please be sure to follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible. Jump on your favorite podcast app. Give us a follow a review. If you have any guests or suggestion topics, Curtis Jackson, 1978.

00:31:33.394 --> 00:31:41.317
> Curtis Jackson>Att.net is the place to send them. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Doctor Moss, thank you so much for joining me today.

00:31:41.617 --> 00:31:50.307
> Dr. Fred Moss>All right, Curtis, it's been an honor and a pleasure. Thank you for being here with me and thank you for letting me, spend some time with you and your audience. It's really, really privileged.

00:31:50.928 --> 00:31:55.468
> Curtis Jackson>For more information on the living the dream podcast, visit www.

00:31:56.208 --> 00:31:57.788
> Curtis Jackson>Dot DJ curve.

00:31:59.028 --> 00:32:03.539
> Curtis Jackson>Until next time, stay focused on living the dream.

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> Dr. Fred Moss>Dream. Hm.