May 30, 2024

Living the dream with insightful author and founder of the Screen in Literary Ego magazine Jane Marie Auret

Show Notes
Transcript

Send us a text

In today’s episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we delve into the emotional and psychological condition of modern America with Jane Marie Auret, author and founder of the Screen in Literary Ego magazine. Jane shares her insights on the mental health crisis affecting Gen Z, the impact of modern psychology, and the importance of finding purpose in life. She also discusses her work in a facility for teenage female wards of the state and the challenges of the foster care system. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation about mental health, purpose, and the role of therapy in contemporary society.

www.janemarieauret.com

WEBVTT

00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:38.487
> Curveball>Welcome, um, to the Living the Dream podcast with curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire. Today we're going to be talking about the emotional and psychological condition of modern America, as I am joined by Jane Marie Horat.

00:00:38.655 --> 00:00:56.493
> Curveball>She is an author and a founder of the screen in iterary ego magazine, which is the title of her book. So we're going to be talking about her magazine and her book and everything that she's up to. So, Jane, thank you so much for joining me today.

00:00:56.914 --> 00:00:58.682
> Jane Marie Horat>Thank you so much for having me.

00:00:58.857 --> 00:01:02.014
> Curveball>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

00:01:02.969 --> 00:02:00.805
> Jane Marie Horat>Mhm. So I, uh, m am interested in answering the question, why are so many people so distressed? Like, why are so many people so sad right now? Um, my book is titled screens and the A meditation on Gen Z and the rates of mental health of Gen Z is upwards, uh, of 40% of the population. And, um, I thought that if, like, conventional wisdom about mental health was capable of solving this problem, then we wouldn't be experiencing the levels of mental health crisis that we are, right? Like, if we were responding to mental health problems in a way that fixed the problem, then you wouldn't have 40% of your, you know, of your young people suffering from anxiety and depression and low self esteem and all of the things that we are suffering from.

00:02:00.950 --> 00:03:38.506
> Jane Marie Horat>And a little bit of that is attributed to phones. Well, a lot of it is attributed to phones, but I don't think that that's the whole story. I think that the way that we think about our own internal lives is divorced from the way that most human civilization, um, and history has thought about their own internal lives. And, um, what I mean by that is when you talk about mental emotional health, you're describing your internal life in a medical context. But before Freud and the development of modern psychology, people would use the word soul to talk about their internal lives, right? And in, say, the Middle east, for example, they're still using the word soul to describe their. What's going on inside of them, right? And instead of talking about something like depression or anxiety, they would talk about grief, uh, or sorrow or, um, shame. And the difference between those words matters, um, a lot. One, because a religious understanding of the internal life has a structure around it that's kind of goal oriented and based in your action. Like, um, the abrahamic faiths have taught people for however long they've existed, that the way that you make, the way that you get right with God is by acting right and behaving correctly. Right. So practitioners of that faith would, um, uh, develop a sense of self respect based on their actions.

00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:44.054
> Jane Marie Horat>And, uh, that has been lost in, like, modern psychology.

00:03:44.383 --> 00:04:24.860
> Jane Marie Horat>The idea of mental, um, health is you should love yourself, and then if you don't, there's something wrong with you. So you should pursue therapy, pursue long term reliance on antidepressants. And, um, I reached this conclusion because, one, I needed to find a way and a philosophy to think about my own internal life. And then two, uh, during COVID I pivoted. Originally, I was going to get a PhD, and then I decided I didn't want to do that. I wanted to do something meaningful with my life. And I ended up working in a facility for teenage female wards of the state whose behavior was too extreme for foster care placement.

00:04:25.012 --> 00:05:26.613
> Jane Marie Horat>And, um, so it's like, between foster, uh, care and juvenile detention, and the behavior was really bad. And I'm happy to talk more about that. The severity of the issues were really severe. Um, but the reason that I started developing this philosophy is because, uh, the girls who I was working with had exposure to therapy every single day. Every single day, we were doing therapeutic techniques with them. Like, write ten things that you like about yourself that isn't related to your appearance or whatever it is. We try to implement these theories, and it just was not helping them. The rates of mental health crisis and the extremeness of the. The suffering that I was seeing was just, like, not being alleviated by anything that we were doing. So that's the reason that I started, uh, developing what I write about in my book, what I'm interested in talking about in my magazine, and what I would like to talk with you about today.

00:05:28.713 --> 00:05:34.497
> Curveball>Okay, well, go ahead and expand wherever you feel is important to expand.

00:05:34.545 --> 00:05:37.173
> Curveball>I know you were talking about the girls that you were working with.

00:05:37.593 --> 00:05:40.694
> Curveball>Expand on what you want to expand on.

00:05:41.074 --> 00:05:43.810
> Jane Marie Horat>Okay, cool. Awesome. Thank you.

00:05:43.882 --> 00:06:46.910
> Jane Marie Horat>So, yeah, so, talking about the experience at the facility for teenage female wards of the state. And I can't name the facility because I don't want to call anybody out. Um, but overall, I think that it was a really, like, of the facilities that performed this function, I think it was a good one. Um, and it was still almost impossible to help someone, uh, like the clients that we were working with. So the first thing that I would say is, I think that we need to draw a line between people who have really severe mental disorders and do need medical intervention and people who generally feel anxiety and depression, who are prescribing, um, their issues in a way that might not necessarily have been medical. Ah, if you're a therapist, um, treating someone who actually has bipolar disorder is incredibly difficult.

00:06:47.021 --> 00:07:09.514
> Jane Marie Horat>It's incredibly difficult because the person is unreliable. Maybe the person doesn't have a job, so they can't pay you for their weekly sessions regularly. Maybe the person, um, you know, the issues that that client is going to face is much greater and much more difficult to try to see results. Right.

00:07:09.634 --> 00:07:54.673
> Jane Marie Horat>So that's the issue of therapy that I think is good. And um, if you get a client that has really severe pathological distortions or trauma, which has led to such a, such a great break from reality that. That they can't really interact with the world in a functional way, um, then you do need to pursue some sort of medical intervention. Uh, then there's also the rest of the population, which is basically functional and just kind of buying into modern concepts of, um, psychology and therapy. And maybe therapy isn't the best solution for them.

00:07:54.949 --> 00:10:24.864
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, so I want to break down that in terms of the severity of the patient, uh, now, in respect to a patient that, um, like someone, uh, who's been traumatized in their early childhood, um, let's talk a little bit about how society has dealt with that segment, uh, of the population for a while. And, um, so I think that the rise of, um, orphanages started on a mass scale, like at the turn of the industrial revolution. Um, and orphanages had a lot of problems in them. Uh, not the least of which was the fact that when you take people who have had the worst experiences and you put them all in a building together, then they still will create a culture, but the culture will be extreme and they'll feed off of each other's traumas. Uh, and that was kind of the main reason that America adopted the idea of the foster care system, right? So we were like, you know, the kids who go into an orphanage, you know, on the one hand, like, a lot of orphanages were run really, really badly for a really long time. And they were like, punitive and terrible and, um, just not at all conducive to rehabilitating someone or helping them, like, develop a genuine sense of self respect or agency. Um, but even if it was, ah, a well intended organization, it still had huge amounts of problems with, say, females who had been sexually abused, reenacting the sexual abuse on other children in the facility. And that puts the caregivers in a really awkward situation, um, because they need to help a 14 year old who's also like abusing a twelve year old or something. And so that type of thing happened all the time, um, in orphanages. So uh, the court system in the United States basically decided that they were going to approximate a family situation as much as possible. So um, uh, the idea was if a parent can't take care of a child, uh, you would get a relative. And if you can't get a relative, you're going to go into the foster care system. And that's what we have right now. The foster care system is a family that as closely approximates home life, um, as possible.

00:10:25.203 --> 00:11:06.899
> Jane Marie Horat>Now, if a girl or a boy, but I have experience with females, so I'm going to talk about that group. Um, if a girl isn't functional in a foster care home, maybe she, uh, most of the time it's the fact that she's reenacting her sexual abuse or somehow behaving in a way that endangers the other kids in the foster, um, care home. The foster home, uh, I think that two of the admittance at one point got physical. I think that one chased uh, her um, caregiver around with a knife for whatever reason. Uh, and another one uh, got into a fight and pushed someone down the stairs.

00:11:06.932 --> 00:11:30.274
> Jane Marie Horat>But uh, other than that it was girls, uh, uh, doing things that were really behaviorally distorted. Um, uh, and so you have to take them away and you don't want to put them in juvenile detention because they don't need that, they need help, right.

00:11:30.653 --> 00:13:49.836
> Jane Marie Horat>So you have this system of like intermediaries, which is where I worked, and some of them are really bad and some of them are kind of good. And it's really, really hard, even if you're in a good facility, to see someone overcome the amount of trauma that they face before they have gotten into the system. Um, and just to give you an idea of the type of interactions that I had in the facility on the first day, um, I walked in and a client was banging on the window and I said, hey, please stop being on the window. And she said, miss Jane Marie, jump off a bridge and die. And I said, um, how do we respond to frustration? And she said, I'm frustrated that you won't jump off a bridge and die. And then two weeks later, uh, two clients got into a fistfight and um, one of them got a handful of the other one's hair and physically ripped a portion of her scalp off. And we had to go to the emergency room and it was just really severe of thing that like, happens in the facility a lot, and, um, there's really no appreciation. The clients don't want you there. Um, honestly, it's kind of weird to be in a situation where you can tell someone to go die and then they like, come back the next day and try to, like, help you talk through your emotions because you're like, boyfriend. You got an email from your boyfriend that he's breaking up with you or something like that entire, um, um, the disassociation that you have with not really connecting with the person who's supposed to care for you because it's medical and because there are those, like, boundaries put up. It's like, very weird because, uh, the, the clients don't appreciate you at all and they don't want, they don't want you to be there. Um, and then also there's just problems with, um, administration because, uh, administration has a bunch of, um, you know, social workers and policies and whatever it is, but the social workers and policymakers, uh, are not the ones that are physically, like, breaking up the fights or dealing with the situation. So there's a pretty severe gap between the people who are on the ground and the people who are calling the shots.

00:13:49.980 --> 00:14:44.734
> Jane Marie Horat>And, um, because the people on the ground are so often put in terribly ethically ambiguous situations. Like, hey, you know, if a girl self harms, um, you know, do you, like, if she self harms and then she's bleeding under her clothes, do you make her like, you know, put on a band aid, in which case you have to ask her to, like, you know, put on the band aid, or do you fight with her and let her bleed? Um, that's, that's a pretty terrible situation. That is difficult because on the two, like, it's, it's one of those things where, like, okay, well, you know, I don't, I don't have the decision making ability to do this. I'm going to call admin, I'm going to call someone higher up, and then they have to, like, adjudicate about it. And it's just really, really difficult to be in that situation. And that's why I have the utmost respect for people who do that long term, because I lasted about six months.

00:14:45.179 --> 00:15:15.851
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, but, but in that time, um, like I said, ah, the, I didn't see any, like, really dramatic improvements in terms of, uh, emotional health and well being, except for one. And it was a situation in which a girl's older sister was about to have a baby, and she wanted to be able to leave the facility on her 18th birthday so that she could go and take care of the baby.

00:15:15.988 --> 00:15:29.823
> Jane Marie Horat>And, um, it was really a a, ah, like 110% dramatic change that, uh, came with this girl independently deciding that she had a purpose, that she was going to do something.

00:15:30.220 --> 00:16:24.203
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, and that really took me back to religion and philosophy about this idea of what I think that all philosophy, uh, like, all religious philosophy, really is trying to answer the question, like, what is the purpose to life? Like, why am I here? And what does it, like, what do I need to do while I'm on earth? Or what responsibility do I have to the fact that I have been given life? And, um, you know, I would say that Lao tzu attempts to answer that in the dow Tejing, which is like a text from ancient China. And I would say all abrahamic faiths do it. Um, and I would say that it's also the exact same thing that that girl needed to decide for herself in order to, um, start, uh, behaving in a way in which she was like, you know what? I'm ready to do this thing.

00:16:24.624 --> 00:16:34.190
> Jane Marie Horat>I want to be a person in the world. Um, so, yeah, that's what I would say. Uh, what do you think about the idea of purpose? Uh.

00:16:36.703 --> 00:16:51.043
> Curveball>Well, I think everybody has a purpose, whether we know it or not. And the quicker we can find it out, the quicker we can start, you know, going towards that. But some people never find out their purpose.

00:16:52.303 --> 00:17:09.912
> Jane Marie Horat>Yeah. And they. If you don't find a purpose, you're very lost. Right. Like, you don't really, like, you know, that there's every, like, human heart, or the vast majority of human hearts are, like, seeking a purpose, and when you don't have it, it feels like there's something not right.

00:17:10.048 --> 00:17:13.544
> Curveball>Right, absolutely.

00:17:15.604 --> 00:17:16.316
> Jane Marie Horat>Yeah.

00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:22.144
> Curveball>So it's definitely good to find your purpose as quick as you can so you can start going towards that.

00:17:23.884 --> 00:17:56.834
> Jane Marie Horat>Right, absolutely. Um, and I would say. I would say that that's also true for mental health treatment in the United States. Um, I think that there's a huge difference between someone saying, you know, like, hey, I need to. I need to get over the trauma of breaking up with my ex, so I'm going to go to therapy for 16 sessions, and then I'm going to stop, because I will have developed the most up to date coping mechanisms, um, and tried to practice that, and then I'm going to end my treatment.

00:17:57.549 --> 00:18:17.374
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, I think that if a person treats therapy and mental health that way, um, they probably would have been able to get over their situation even if they hadn't decided to go to therapy because they made a conscious decision to do something with a purpose of resolving internal emotional pain.

00:18:17.713 --> 00:18:54.723
> Jane Marie Horat>And the conscious decision to have a purpose is the original thing. That is the fundamental thing that you need in order to heal. Um, if you don't have that purpose or that goal or that vision, um, then it's very easy to coast, um, into nothingness and not really understand. And also, okay, so now we talked about patients, um, that have really severe mental, um, health problems. And it's very difficult to treat them.

00:18:54.763 --> 00:19:24.018
> Jane Marie Horat>And it's very difficult for, um, anybody to figure out how, how to best help someone who's experienced the level of trauma that induces severe, um, severe behavioral disorders and psychosis. And I want to say, absolutely, um, when I talk about behavior, I'm not talking about it in a hoity toity. Um, oh, they should correct their behavior a principle way.

00:19:24.066 --> 00:24:19.902
> Jane Marie Horat>I'm talking about the way that they act in the world. And I'm trying to say that like, if someone has a real disconnect between the world and the way that they act, it can cause problems for them. So if you have really severe trauma, then the way that you act in the world is disrupted. Okay, so putting that demographic aside now, talking about people who are like generally in therapy, um, it is possible for a therapist to, like, it's possible to have a bad therapist, right? Like it's possible for mental health treatment to make your symptoms worse instead of better. Um, and I know that because I've seen it happen and also it happened to me. Um, and I think that's because, uh, one, everyone's in therapy, so there's just a greater chance that you get a bad therapist. Um, and ah, also therapy is not really regulated according to a single body. M and one of the reasons that psychiatrists, who are the people who prescribe meds, almost never do talk therapy anymore is because talk therapy therapy is not really, um, compatible, uh, with the scientific process. So if you're going to claim that you're a doctor and you follow the scientific method in your work, you don't really do talk therapy. And that's why, um, there's such a big gap between psychiatrists and therapists who might have either psychology degrees or social work degrees. Um, in addition to that, uh, the amount of therapy that I was, therapeutic ideas, I was exposed by people who have never been trained in therapy, like in school was outrageous. Um, like I remember in 7th grade, I'm Gen Z, right? So I'm 20, I just turned 26. So, uh, I was born in 1998. And um, I went to a pretty normal liberal public school in the north. And I remember in 7th grade, like, every single day before we had class, we would check in to see how everybody is feeling. Um, and, uh, the point that I'm making is, I think it's nice that our teacher, um, was interested in our emotions. But basically, um, this was tantamount to a group therapy session conducted by a person who had not been trained in therapy, where she was like, hey, everybody, let's talk about what's going on. No one's going to raise their hand and say, I had a really good day. Everyone. Uh, if you're in 7th grade and you have an opportunity to talk about your emotions, you're going to try to tell an interest story or talk about how bad you're feeling, right? So, like, one kid mentions how he hates his stepbrother or something, and then the rest of the group starts talking about how they also hate their stepbrothers. So, functionally speaking, I was in a group therapy session every morning in 7th grade, uh, ran by a woman who didn't know what is healthy mental health. And it honestly made it sensational to ruminate on bad emotions. Um, and it also was just, like, kind of silly because, uh, like, it provided a platform for you to share your most intimate problems with the kids who are, like, mean to you, right? Like, it's just kind of a ridiculous situation to be in. And it's also like, I'm not. Just like, this is a very common experience. Like, the amount of therapy that's in public schools and private schools and universities, the amount of times, like, after the 2016 election, uh, I had three different professors tell me that if you were emotionally distraught by the election, uh, um, you could have a mental health, uh, uh, like, I don't know, accommodation. You could have a mental health accommodation for the rest of the semester. And then the amount of therapy that was conducted in a classroom by a professor where it was just like, hey, everybody, let's debrief and let's talk about our own emotions together. Um, created a culture that was based in therapy, but kind of not really done by a therapist who's medically trained. Right. So that's kind of a weird issue that's going on right now. And I can't help but think that the number of times I've been asked how I feel, or the number of times kids in Gen Z have been asked how they feel has something to do with the fact that they, like, are hypersensitive to, like, internal feelings of sadness or depression. Um, because it's so, like, ingrained in the way that we interact. Right. Um, uh, I once worked with an intern for like, a.

00:24:20.018 --> 00:24:22.710
> Jane Marie Horat>A job where I was in an office, right?

00:24:22.862 --> 00:24:31.077
> Jane Marie Horat>And the intern was three years younger than me. But every single day, uh, in a team meeting, uh, we would have check ins, right?

00:24:31.205 --> 00:24:36.806
> Jane Marie Horat>And the check ins were supposed to be like, how was your project? What did you do today? What are you going to do tomorrow?

00:24:36.869 --> 00:25:06.044
> Jane Marie Horat>It was supposed to be related to work, but, um, for the first month and a half, the intern just thought that the check in was like, hey, how are you feeling? Did you, did you, uh, like, get your graduate photos yet? Or how's life been going? So now that the thing is bad, it's just that there's been a cultural shift towards therapy that is greater than just a medical trend. It's like a cultural shift towards therapy. Um, have you noticed that?

00:25:07.463 --> 00:25:13.804
> Curveball>Absolutely. I've definitely noticed that there's a lot of therapy going on in our world today.

00:25:16.554 --> 00:25:17.938
> Curveball>So tell us about.

00:25:18.105 --> 00:25:18.973
> Jane Marie Horat>I'm sorry.

00:25:19.834 --> 00:25:30.614
> Curveball>Oh, no, no problem. Tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on, because you're really deep into this and your work, uh, can definitely help and affect a lot of people.

00:25:30.913 --> 00:25:48.223
> Jane Marie Horat>Yeah. Thank you so much. Uh, so first of all, sorry about that. I'm in a cafe and the, um, woman who works behind the counter asked me a question. Can you tell me what you said one more time about how you've noticed therapy? Uh, you've noticed, like a therapeutic culture? Thank you.

00:25:48.263 --> 00:25:52.923
> Curveball>Yeah, I was saying that there's a lot, there's a lot of therapy going on in our world today.

00:25:54.183 --> 00:26:46.223
> Jane Marie Horat>Yeah, definitely there is. Um, so to answer your question, uh, my work is really just raising awareness about how people, um, can think about their own internal lives in a more productive way. Right. And that's not to say that I think that religion is the only solution or that I'm motivated by evangelizing, but I think that the modern medical, um, like, uh, psychology, freudian stuff has done a lot of harm to people. And I want people to really think about, like, who they know who has good mental health and who they know who has bad mental health. And think about the underlying philosophy of the way that they're able to process, uh, like, day to day inconveniences.

00:26:46.609 --> 00:27:14.824
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, so, ah, I am soliciting, uh, articles. So if you've ever thought about, like, modern Gen Z or you've had an interesting experience, um, then feel free to contact me. You can just go onto my website and email me. Um, I respond to 100% of the emails that I get. And I've, uh, posted everything from rap music to, um, long form essays.

00:27:14.943 --> 00:27:22.963
> Jane Marie Horat>So definitely, uh, reach out if you do have an interesting opinion about why are people sad?

00:27:23.263 --> 00:27:28.660
> Jane Marie Horat>What's, what's the way that you can achieve happiness, anything like that.

00:27:28.852 --> 00:27:31.544
> Curveball>So, um, how can people get in touch with you?

00:27:32.084 --> 00:27:44.412
> Jane Marie Horat>If, uh, they go onto my website, they can email me. I don't have any social media, so if you want to, uh, email me, it's, uh, orestudiosotonmail.com. that's a u r e t s t u dash.

00:27:44.587 --> 00:27:45.980
> Jane Marie Horat>Rotonmail.com dot.

00:27:46.051 --> 00:27:47.183
> Curveball>And what's your website?

00:27:47.683 --> 00:27:50.915
> Jane Marie Horat>Janemariaray.com. so just my name.com.

00:27:51.059 --> 00:28:00.344
> Curveball>Gotcha. Well, in closing, give us some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:53.938
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, yeah, so I think the last thing I would say is that, uh, Freudian, for a very long time in human history, people said, don't, don't focus on the past, because the past cannot be changed. Um, and then this idea of psychoanalysis came about, and it was based in Freud. Uh, and Freud's a very interesting thinker. He is. And it's not that the ideas that he, um, has put into the world are untrue. It's that I'm not sure if they're very productive, because, um, one, mental health is affecting, uh, people of high socioeconomic means at greater rates than it is affecting, uh, people of low socioeconomic means.

00:28:53.986 --> 00:28:59.650
> Jane Marie Horat>And that's very weird. That's very weird because almost all social problems are greater for people.

00:28:59.801 --> 00:29:49.165
> Jane Marie Horat>They're exacerbated by the experience of poverty, right? Like if, if you're impoverished and, you know, you're also, like, maybe a little bit confrontational. Like, you might, like, have more problems with alcoholism, more issues, like, everything. All of the factors that, um, all of the factors that contribute, uh, to, you know, a dysfunctional life are going to be exacerbated by poverty. Except for mental health, right. Mental health, uh, is mostly, um. Uh, the people who suffer from depression and anxiety are doing it greater, ah, at the higher socioeconomic levels. I'm sorry that it's so difficult for me to say this.

00:29:49.190 --> 00:29:52.000
> Jane Marie Horat>I'm looking for the words as I say this. Um.

00:29:55.450 --> 00:31:07.938
> Jane Marie Horat>Um, the point is that people who have access to therapy are suffering more mental health problems. Uh, and that's also an indication that maybe therapy is causing the problem. So for a long time, human beings believed and told their children, don't focus on the past because the past cannot be changed. Then, um, uh, Freud came along and he developed an entire system of attributing every problem that you have to an early childhood experience and maybe every positive trait that you also have to an early childhood experience. But the focus that therapy, talk therapy, classic psychoanalysis puts on early childhood trauma, um, I'm not sure if that's the best way for people to go forward because besides trying to disrupt patterns that your parents helped you, that your parents did, um, you know, I think that a lot of times, if you attribute everything that's going, if you attribute too much to what happened in the past, then, like, what are you supposed to do with it?

00:31:08.026 --> 00:31:38.880
> Jane Marie Horat>Like, you just spent the past year and a half talking to a therapist. You believe the things that you believe or why you have the emotional reactions you do. Uh, and then you're like, okay, well, like, how do I change them? And there's really not a clear answer. Um, besides, like, besides just making a conscious decision to use willpower to undo what, uh, your parents have taught you. But that's not, that's really not like something that a lot of people do.

00:31:38.912 --> 00:32:13.983
> Jane Marie Horat>Well, like, using willpower to overcome the past is not something that's, um, had a wonderful track record of helping people, uh, to actually disrupt their behavioral patterns. And then also, I'm not sure if it's really that productive to focus on early childhood trauma, as Freud and his followers would say. So that's my current critique on it. Um, if you disagree, also, I'm happy to publish your work. Um, and that's all I have. Thank you so much.

00:32:14.923 --> 00:32:20.344
> Curveball>Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, janemariore.com dot. Please be sure to check it out.

00:32:20.753 --> 00:32:45.506
> Curveball>Like she said, if you have anything you want to publish, send it her way. If you have any guest or suggestion topics, see Jackson 102 is the place to send them. Please be sure to follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible. Jump on your favorite podcast app, hit that follow button. Leave us a review. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Shane, thank you so much for joining us.

00:32:45.650 --> 00:32:47.054
> Jane Marie Horat>Thank you for having me.

00:32:47.503 --> 00:32:55.415
> Curveball>For more information on the living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurvefall.com.

00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:00.384
> Curveball>until next time, stay focused on living the dream. Dream.