June 23, 2024

Living the dream with financial innovator and entrepreneur Jeff Sekinger

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In this episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, Curveball interviews Jeff Sekinger, a financial innovator and entrepreneur who has built three successful financial firms. Jeff shares his inspiring journey from overcoming addiction to achieving financial independence. Learn about the trials and tribulations he faced, his unique approach to optimistic perseverance, and how he uses algorithmic trading technology to help others gain financial freedom.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome, um, to the Living the Dream podcast with curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today, we're going to be talking about how to help entrepreneurs gain financial independence and freedom for themselves, as I am joined by financial innovator and entrepreneur Jeff Seckinger. Jeff has created and built three successful financial firms that focus on helping entrepreneurs gain financial independence, and we're going to be talking to him about his story and how he went from nothing to a lot. So, Jeff, thank you so much for joining me today.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Thank you, Curtis. I'm really excited to be here.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah. So, uh, I'm 30 years old. I'm living in Miami, Florida. I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, though, and I went through traditional education systems. I got my finance degree in college, and then I worked for JPMorgan for a couple of years and went through a ton of adversity, which im sure, well, probably jump into a little bit throughout this podcast, but just professionally. Then started, um, my first consulting company, which helps entrepreneurs get access to low interest financing. A few months, it was probably four to six months later, I started, this is in 2018.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So in 2019, I started my first hedge fund.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Um, and that firm, both those companies are still doing well. And then most recently, just over the past year, uh, released a software company for retail traders. And that company has absolutely exploded. Uh, we're on track to do $50 to $60 million this year. And the other, uh, you know, two financial brands are doing quite well as well.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So I, uh, couldn't be more happy with the progress.

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> Jeff Seckinger>But it's definitely been a lot of trials and tribulations and huge learning, uh, curves that have been quite costly and, uh, a lot of, you know, perseverance that I had to push through, you know, even early on. And, uh, before I even got truly deep into entrepreneurship, I went, had kind of had a very unconventional and rough path to where I'm at today. So, really excited to start chatting about it.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Yeah, tell us about those trials and tribulations.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>I know that was some addiction. You know, tell the listeners about the trials and tribulations that you went through and the learning curves and how you, uh, done it all that way. They can understand that, hey, you know, no matter what you're going through, you can work your way out of it and make something out of it.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the key message I really want to get across to as many people is really doesn't matter where you at, what you've been through, what matters is where you project into the future. But, um, my main issue in life that has turned into my purpose, which is I couldn't be more happy and thankful now. But, ah, when it was happening, I was, you know, devastated by it was I, uh, uh, I got injured in football. I played varsity football. I was chasing one of our top receivers in practice, and I tripped over his legs and I put my arm out to try to, you know, brace the fall, and it, it extended my whole body and my rib cage and it tore all the ribs, all the muscles in my ribs. So every time I like, took a deep breath or moved in any direction, it was pretty excruciating pain because a bunch of blood, uh, uh, dried on top of the muscles and it made it really, um, um, you know, difficult to really do anything. So the doctors prescribed me Percocet and muscle relaxers and I took those as prescribed. But then I realized that it actually gave me a little bit of energy, made me feel a little bit, uh, uh, you know, a little bit less shy. I was always a shy person growing up, and, uh, uh, helped me, you know, get back into the game and be able to work out, you know, quicker and sooner. And, uh, then when those ran out, I started to find people that had them. And then it just created this snowball effect where I got, you know, physically addicted for six years, uh, two opiates, and I got on worse and worse and worse things, and I was consistently trying to stop. So out of those six years, four years, I was trying to stop every day, and I just really couldn't. It was the only thing that I had not been able to stop in my life. And I was, you know, I tried everything. I saw doctors, they put me on these different medications and I would get off of it because I realized I was getting addicted to this other thing that has a longer half life that's going to screw me even more long term. Uh, I read all these types of personal development books. I listened to podcasts and YouTube videos and tried to talk to people that have been through the issue. I went to meetings, I did all these things, and I couldn't figure out how to stop. And eventually I got to a place where I was, uh, like 20.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, at this time I would have been 24 in my late, almost 25. And I had, uh, pretty, I was over 60 grand in debt. I had no friends, no connections, no idea what I was going to do. At the time, I was actually working for the biggest bank in the United States in asset management. And, uh, I thought that was my dream career. But what I realized was that was the dream career for my family, friends, peers.

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> Jeff Seckinger>That's what I thought they were going to think was successful.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And I realized that what success is, is getting what you want.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So I had a, you know, that problem extended and got deeper and deeper to the point where I was doing$1,000 of drugs a day, um, just to try to feel normal.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And that got me into tens and tens of thousands of debt, uh, and I had huge credit problems going, uh, into this.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Is it late in, uh, actually early 2018. And then I got to a place where I'm living in my dad's basement. I just crashed my car because I fell asleep on the highway. I've got over 60 grand in debt. I've got no more sick days at work. The. I was living in my dad's basement.

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> Jeff Seckinger>It flooded from a big storm, and I'm going through withdrawals, like throwing up stomach acid over the side of the bed, and I'm just like, all right, this is the absolute low of my lows, and I have to do something about it. So I went into an inpatient place called cornerstone in. In, uh, uh, in Columbus, Ohio. And. And they don't have, like, an or.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Excuse me. There was an outpatient place, which means you don't sleep there. You just go in and, you know, you usually do the 3 hours a week. But I did an assessment there, and I looked pale as a ghost. I was probably, like, 20 pounds underweight from what I used to be. And they were like, yeah, Jeff, there's no way that you can go to outpatient. You have to go to inpatient because you're so bad. Um, um, you're actually one of the worst we've seen as far as the amount that you're actually using, because I was using, like, every 2 hours. So then I got out. Right when I walked out, I was supposed to go back into work because I had no sick days, and it was during the weekdays. And I'm like, there's. I was so sick, there was no way I could have gone in. And my dad called me. He goes, hey, how did the assessment go? What they say?

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> Jeff Seckinger>And I was like, hey, yeah. They. They pretty much denied me, but said, I have to go to inpatient, and they have a spot for me that could open as soon as tomorrow. And he's like, well, what do you say? You've pretty much got no option right now. And I'm like, yeah, I I gotta go. So I finally let go my ego. I went into rehab February 28 of 2018. I got out March 31 of 2018, and then I did nine weeks of intensive outpatient. And then I went back to work, and I realized that part of the reason why I was using was because I was escaping my life. I didn't have a cool life, so I was like, you know, it was many reasons, right? I was shy. I had a lot of ambitions, but I would suppress them because I didn't think it was possible or I was worried about what other people thought of my life and what I was doing. Uh, I had all these reasons why, you know, I was. I realized that I was using, but the main thing was that I didn't have a life that I actually enjoyed and that I was excited and inspired to live. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to drop everything. I'm going to, first, uh, of all, figure out what I value, and then I'm going to design my life around that. So I invested in a course called the values determinations, uh, test by John demartini, where I figured out what my highest three values are, which is having freedom, options, and choices, having uncapped earning potential, and seeing impact on other people. And I, uh, designed my whole life around that and my businesses around that. And now I'm, um, incredibly inspired.

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> Jeff Seckinger>I never think about using drugs, ever, uh, which is, uh, amazing. And, uh, I've had a pretty big impact.

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> Jeff Seckinger>I employ over 90 people. I've got over $85 million under management in my fund. I've got probably tens of thousands of clients at this point.

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> Jeff Seckinger>M if you were to combine all my companies together, and, um, it's been pretty incredible. People don't think that it's real that I'm actually at the level that I'm at, because that was just about six and a half years ago.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Um, and I think one of the things I'm most even proud about now is, which just. It's actually all happening right now.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Um, but when I went into rehab, I had this counselor named Christopher Russell. And he had been through some really, really tough times, but him and I connected, like, right away on just personal development things. Talked about quotes from Jim, uh, Rohn, Les Brown, Tony, uh, Robbins, all these people that we really enjoyed, uh, listening to. And he helped me create a vision board for myself of all these things that I wanted to do with my life and the businesses I wanted to have, the lifestyle I wanted to have, the people I wanted to be around. And he also had me write a hero story, which was looking from third person's point of view of, okay, Jeff, how did your life start?

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> Jeff Seckinger>How did it progress? How did you get to where you're at now? And then let's project what you're going to do in the future, but we're going to do it from a superhero point of view. So I was thinking of myself as a superhero from a third person's point of view, and I wrote the story.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And what's crazy is a lot of those things on the vision board and my story are playing out right now.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And I had deep, and I'm even getting chills right now just saying it. But when I was in rehab, I had chills, serious body chills, not just from being sick, but it was from my thoughts and my feelings that I had around the things and impact that I wanted to do.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And they were so strong that a lot of those things have, have happened. And what's really cool is, I mean, literally two days ago, a few months ago, I filed for my first family foundation, which we're going to help, uh, people coming out of rehab with, uh, their credit problems and help, uh, first of all, take them through a mindset journey to get their mind and body back in shape.

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> Jeff Seckinger>But then, secondly, be able to take care of their finances to, you know, because a lot of people struggle when they get out. They have terrible credit. They can't get an apartment, they can't get a car, they can't do anything. And, um, that's what my family foundation is going to focus on first and foremost. In my first hire I just made two days ago, which was, is, uh, my counselor from that rehab named Chris, Christopher Russell. So, and he's in, you know, deep need of, uh, of this type of job and career. Uh, so couldn't, uh, be more happy with what has been happening. But it all shifted when I started to figure out what I valued and then created and designed a life around that. So that is a lot right there. I'm going to go ahead and stop and, uh, see if you've got any follow up questions on that. Curtis.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Yeah, you've coined the term, and congratulations on everything.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>You've coined the term optimistic perseverance. So kind of explain to the listeners what that is and talk about how that played a role in your success.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah. So there is a. I, uh, mean, there's a two step process that I kind of go through to create a really empowering life. The first thing is I take full accountability for whatever the heck my results are, no matter what the circumstances are. I don't care if I was parked and someone hit my car when I was parked, that is my fault. I'm going to take full accountability for it. Okay, the second piece, because then it allows to take, allows you to take accountability for your life going ahead in the future. But the second thing that you asked about, which is the second part of the equation is optimistic perseverance, which is when you turn any problem, you know, any perceived problem, any negative thing in your life, you turn your problems into purpose, you turn your pain into fuel, and you make everything make you better, because you got to realize, really, nothing is good and bad. That's just your perception of that event or that circumstance. And what I do is I have programmed my mind to just make everything make me better. I believe that every single circumstance and event that happens in my life is consistently just giving me more energy and more momentum towards the things that I want to achieve. And I choose to think that way. And everything benefits me when I think that way. I mean, even like in Miami, we just had rain for like three or four days where you couldnt even go out, tons of flooding. Im like, this is amazing because now I can spend more time inside and do deeper work and not be distracted by the really great weather and all the things to do outside. Now I get to spend my time doing great things. I was just at a Joe dispenza retreat for seven days. I was walking, doing a meditation outside on the beach. I had no shoes on. I kicked a rock immediately.

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> Jeff Seckinger>When I kicked this rock, most people would have been like, oh, that really hurt. That's going to ruin my day. Oh, man, you think really negative. Immediately I'm like, oh, thank you for that energy rock. That helped. Before the rock even stopped skipping, I was like, that just helped me, gave me more energy, gave me more momentum, which is like, I could be, you know, perceived as one of the dumbest things that you, that you hear. But this, that's the level of, because that translates into the bigger things. So if you can do with the smaller things, you can do with the bigger things and the bigger things. For example, I mean, like with the, with my, you know, problems where I had terrible credit out of 524 credit score going into rehab, okay, I had tens and tens of thousands of debt, and I went into more debt to try to learn and get myself out of the hole. Which actually, you know, would work to my advantage. But I turned my all over everything I had to learn about my credit problems and, and my late payments and the collection that I had and the high utilization. I used all of my energy to figure out how to change my personal finances and specifically my credit so that I could go get a new car, I could move out of my dad's basement, I could start to travel for free by learning the credit card points game. And I turned that, uh, into my first business. That made me over eight figures. So I turned my problem of addiction and the issues that it created with my finances and I figured it out for myself and then turned that problem into my purpose by creating a business that made me a pretty good amount of money and also gave me the lifestyle and impact and all the things that I cared about with my values. And that's exactly what I'm talking about, right. Most people would say, oh, my gosh, the addiction. That's the doctor's fault. That's his fault. Oh, my mom was an alcoholic. Oh, I couldn't do this because of that. They didn't make all these excuses and then they never turn it into a positive thing. They just live with the negativity their whole lives. And I immediately take accountability for any circumstance or problem thats happening. And then I say, okay, well, how can I turn this into my purpose? How can I turn this into fuel?

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> Jeff Seckinger>How can I turn this into the springboard to my success? And sometimes it doesnt immediately click. Its not like, oh, yeah, this is okay, I had addiction up, now im going to create a business. It takes, sometimes it takes time, but you got to be patient and have that type of optimistic mindset in order to turn that into more momentum for your success. So does that make sense, Curtis?

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>That makes perfect sense. And you just answered my next question of what advice would you give somebody struggling through hard times, personally or financially?

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, I would, um. Um, I mean, realize that you got to take full accountability, number one. Like, your results are just a summation of your previous actions. So don't play the blame game. If you play the blame game of it's, it's their fault, it's this circumstance. Oh, the weather caused this. Don't do that. You've got to take extreme ownership over your own life, because if you don't take extreme ownership over your own personal results, there is no way you're going to take extreme ownership over your destiny and over the change that you want to create. So that's number one, is always that number two is you got to step. If you've. If you've been trying to change for a while and you're not, you've got to create a new you, okay? And how you create a new you is by figuring out how you're thinking and changing your belief systems. Because your beliefs become your thoughts, your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions, your actions become your habits, and your habits become your destiny.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And what creates your belief systems, because if you can change your belief systems, you can change everything. Right? Um, and how you change your belief systems is by positivity around you. You need to be around an, uh, uplifting environment that believes that great things are possible. Um, if you're around people that put you down, that, uh, talk crap about you, that gossip that don't align with what your goals are, you've got to create a new environment, and then you've got to start thinking differently, because how you can change your beliefs is through positive affirmations and the thoughts and the words that you consistently use to yourself. So you've got to change the way that you're thinking and speaking, especially about yourself and your future, because that's ultimately going to be what changes your belief systems. And there's many.

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> Jeff Seckinger>I mean, if you could go read a book, there's an alter ego effect.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Uh, that's the book, uh, the book title. Uh, and if you go read that book, it teaches you how to create an alter ego. The best athletes and actors in the world, they step into an alter ego. You have got to create a new you, and you can literally, uh, train your body to change itself. Like the actual genus expressions and proteins that your body creates, you can change the way that your body is functioning and evolve into a new year. You. Doctor Joe dispenza again. I was just at his retreat recently.

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> Jeff Seckinger>He is actually making people walk that have been paralyzed for 510 plus years. I've seen it personally with my own eyes.

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> Jeff Seckinger>People that have not walked for years and years start walking because they start changing the way that they're thinking and feeling emotionally about the things that they want to be and become, and their body changes in a way that gives them those things because they're stepping into a new you. And he does that through meditation. So there's different ways of doing it. But Joe Dispenza is a really great example. He's got many testimonials. If you go to any of his live events, events, you will see people that have cancer, diabetes, are paralyzed, have chronic pain, whatever it is, through meditation and thoughts and feelings and intentions. He allows them to transition into a new person, like physically a new person, like their blood work. If they're doing their blood work before the event and after the event, and they're taking their gut microbiome before and after, and it's completely different, they turn into a different human because the brain and body is so powerful. And if you program your mind to believe and then you think and feel in that, you sit in that feeling of what you want to achieve, you can actually physically change yourself and your own reality.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay, well, let's jump and talk about the cornerstone, uh, of your businesses, which is algorithmic technology, trading technology. So kind of tell us, explain to the listeners what that is and how that has became a cornerstone to what you guys are doing.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, so we, you know, I launched a product a few, probably like three years ago. Yeah, uh, just about three years ago now, where you, uh, know a lot of people. I've got a decent presence online on social media. So I launched a product about just investing in trading, because that's what I focus on primarily, especially like in my hedge fund.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And, um, and we realized that people were just really couldnt take action because they were busy at work, in their business, or on different time zones. Uh, theyve got to spend time with family, friends, peers, whatever.

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> Jeff Seckinger>They wanted to have the benefits of trading, but couldnt get them because of all the other things, uh, that they were doing in their own lives. We built trading strategies into softwares that streamlined the process of trading.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Developers that build these strategies and they enter and exit trades on behalf of the user. And then the user just really checks up on their accounts like it's a bank account and uh, makes sure that it's functioning properly and the equity percentage is healthy. Um, and we've been able to, a lot of our systems, like our trading systems are doing what people would hope for to do in a year, in the stock market in a month. And the impact and results we've had has been absolutely incredible, is through my company called nurp.com comma, it's nup.com dot. But, um, this company already has about 3600 active clients right now.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Um, and the results and impact that we've seen with people and families and entrepreneurs around the world has been really, really incredible. So we're taking a lot of strategies that were traditionally used for the ultra high net worth for hedge funds, for institutions, and we're opening that up to retail investors, which we're one of the first companies to really, uh, do this in the right way. And uh, we're creating a huge shift in the way that the typical higher net worth or retail investor invests. One of the big problems that people have is first of all, they don't understand where their money is going, but secondly, they just invest in things that are very cyclical and seasonal, and when they dont know why, theyre investing into something and then the market draws down, the market goes down. Lets say 2008 happens, or even 2022, the market came down over 20%. People get worried and they start to see the price coming down and theyre like oh no, I should probably get out. And then they end up selling the bottom and then when price goes back up, they start buying the top. Then they consistently are losing money over long periods of time because theyre letting their emotions take control of their own investing. And thats what our product has done. Its remove the emotion and its also giving a non correlated return to the end. Uh, investor and user, because um, were going long and short on assets and it doesnt matter if the prices of these currencies or commodities are going up or down, um, because we can make money when they go up and down, because our accounts sit in cash, and then when there's an opportunity and the software spots the opportunity, which is all predefined, um, they're mainly on technical indicators and we usually use some fundamental filters, but when the software spots opportunities, it'll enter the trade and then it'll exit the trade and then it sits in cash.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So we're not subject to like oh, if the stock market goes down, we just lost a bunch of money. If bitcoin goes down, we lost money. Were not worried about whats happening with all the things that a typical longer term investor would be worried about. As far as timing the market, we dont need to time anything because the software is uncorrelated and everything sits in cash.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Its been really cool. I think this is going to be uh, an industry that really blows up. I do believe that we are leading and pioneering this industry.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, I mean we've got a lot of things that we're working on, but um, quite a few things on the back end. Just with making like we've integrated uh, artificial intelligence into like um, into some of our trading systems, but even more so into our customer service so that we can have even better customer service. We're always trying to figure out how we can make the product better for the end user. A lot of it is the end user understanding and getting technical support as quick as possible. Then we just hired our true first, uh, AI quant that's been in AI for ten years, uh, and machine learning for ten years.

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> Jeff Seckinger>We are building, um, AI into our algorithms so that we don't manually have to update them because no trading system or strategy will work for forever. And we understand that. So we are now building our systems in a way where they change and adapt themselves through artificial intelligence and machine learning so that we don't need to go back and do tons of back tests and optimizations and then adjust the strategy and then send out all of those files to all of our 3000 plus users.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Now, the strategies can update themselves based on what the most recent price action and things that are happening fundamentally as far as interest rates or CPI or trade deficits or all those things that impact the way that certain currencies and commodities, uh, fluctuate.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So that's our biggest project is uh, just streamlining that and really uh, harnessing the power of machine learning and AI in trading because it is exceptionally valuable, especially, uh, with what we do. And if you're not learning these new technologies like 15 years ago, is uh, even maybe longer than that. Social media, if you didn't learn social media, you're probably a bit far behind right now. If you didn't learn how the Internet worked 25 years ago, you're probably a little bit behind now. Uh, if you don't learn how AI works, you're definitely going to be behind in the next couple of years.

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> Jeff Seckinger>So you've got to spot these really big trends and start to make moves on them early. Because when you look at things that are as impactful as AI and the Internet, these things are not going away, they're just going to continue to grow. And um, we're always trying to stay on the cutting edge of technology.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay. And so listeners can learn and keep up with everything that you're up to. Throw out your contact info, website or anything like that.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Yeah, I mean, I share a lot of things on personal development and finance and just things that I think, you know, my, my general routines and things like that on my, on my instagram. If you follow me there at Jeffseckinger, um, which is just my first and last name, make, uh, sure it's the verified account because there are a bunch of random fake accounts of me.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Uh, and then, you know, I'm on Twitter at jeffseckinger, YouTube, seconder. And then uh, my company, which is the primary one that we spoke about today is just if you go to nerp.com, um, or Nurp official on uh, Instagram or Twitter, you can see us there. But we post a lot of articles and updates of how clients and our systems are doing and what the markets are doing and uh, things like that. So if you want some free content and education and want to consider working with us, check out nerp.com and uh, we hope to help in some way.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to touch on that you would like to talk about or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Um, I would say, you know, I think we touched a lot on some really valuable things.

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> Jeff Seckinger>I mean, realize that, you know, if you're, if you're not in the position that you want to be in, your life can change dramatically.

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> Jeff Seckinger>And typically it's in like a five year period. So like dont put too much time on like if you go read the slight edge or the compound effect, those are two different books that will help you understand this concept. But as you continually make good decisions, consistently over time, they compound for you and make you better and better and better and your growth will get quicker and quicker. And you have to give enough time for that to actually play out.

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> Jeff Seckinger>You have to be consistent for enough time for that, you know, compounding effect to actually happen. And most people just aren't consistent long enough. And I'm telling you, if you can be consistent about the, you know, the, you know, positive, uh, uh, habits and disciplines that you would, that you put into your life, um, um, and you do that over a five year period of time, your life can have more than, I mean, it's just a complete 180. I mean, it can be incredible. I mean, knowing that if you were to look at me, you know, six and a half years ago when I'm coming out of rehab, there is no way that I would think where I'm at as possible and pretty much no one would ever expect me to be where I'm at either. And the reason why those things have happened is because I've stayed so consistent and persistent on the pursuit of my potential and I'm um, and I'm disciplined most uh, importantly. And uh, it helps to understand that concept of the compound effects. So go check out those two books, the slight edge and the compound effect. I hope you create positive change in your life and I hope that uh, you know, ultimately you get what you want out of life because that is the most important person is you. So find out what you value. Design your life around that, and I guarantee you will not. You couldn't be more happy when you do those things.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Check him out.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Jeffseckingerner.com please be sure to follow rape review share this information to as many people as possible. Jump on your favorite podcast app. Follow us. Leave us a review. If you have any guests or suggestion topics, Curtis Jackson, 1978 att.net is the place to send them. Um, thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Jeff, thank you for coming on and sharing your story.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Absolutely, Curtis. I had fun. Thank you so much.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>For more information on the living the dream podcast, visit www.djcurvefball.com.

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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>until next time, stay focused. Focus on living the dream.

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> Jeff Seckinger>Dream.