Jan. 18, 2024

Living the dream with crisis counselor and author Lisa Sugarman

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Dive into the transformative journey of Lisa Sugarman, a crisis counselor and author, as she shares her poignant story on 'Living the Dream' with Curveball. Discover how the revelation of her father's suicide reshaped her life's path, leading her to a mission of mental health advocacy and storytelling. Join us for an episode filled with raw emotion, practical advice, and a message of hope that will leave you inspired to face your own challenges with courage and purpose.
www.lisasugarman.com

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> Speaker A>Welcome, um, to the living the Dream podcast with curveball. If you believe you can achieve, cheat, cheat.

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> Speaker A>Welcome, um, to the living the dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guest that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today we're going to be talking mental health, as I am joined by Cris counselor, author, national syndicated columnist, storyteller, and podcast host Lisa Sugarman. Lisa has had her share of mental health challenges that she's had to go through, so she's used that to help other people by being a crisis counselor and a storyteller and with her book, so we're going to be talking to her about her story and everything that she's up to. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me.

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> Speaker B>Oh, uh, thanks, Curtis. I'm so glad to be here.

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> Speaker A>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

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> Speaker B>Yeah, sure. So, I'm here just north of Boston. I've lived here all my life, um, married over 30 years, have two grown daughters, and I've gone through, ah, a lot of very interesting ups and downs in my life, um, a lot of them relating to loss and mental health challenges with family members and close, close friends, and. And has gone through kind of a lot of fits and starts in my life as far as the work that I do and what I put out into the world. Um, I was a parenting author for over a decade, wrote a bunch of parenting books, and was really kind of embedded in that space. And then I found out that my father, who passed away when I was ten, actually died by suicide. And I didn't find that out until I was 45 years old. So it was kept from me for the best of reasons, to protect me, of course, but it changed my life. It changed my life in all the ways that you would think it would. And then it changed my life in ways that I never even expected. And it kind of put me on a different course. It got me focused on the mental health world and on suicide awareness and prevention and storytelling. And because of it, it just kind of ignited something in me that wanted to take all of that pain and do something useful with it and make an impact with it.

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> Speaker B>So I started talking about it and writing about it and then storytelling about it, and eventually, uh, just you get further and further along with something, and you get more and more passionate about something, and you want to do more and more to make an impact in that space. So I started training to be a crisis counselor with the Trevor project and have been on their lifelines as a cris counselor for almost a year and a half now, and, uh, ended up getting involved with the National alliance on Mental Illness as a storyteller here in Massachusetts. So I go around, I tell people my story, hoping that it somehow benefits them and working with Samaritans with their grief support group and doing all sorts of really cool projects and writing another book, and this one's about my dad's story and just putting tons of content out in the world to help people become more vulnerable. So that's me. That's what I'm up to.

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> Speaker A>So tell us what the Trevor project is.

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> Speaker B>So the Trevor project is actually the country's largest crisis support hotline and network for at risk LGBTQ youth ages 13 to 24. So anybody can obviously call us. We would never turn anybody away, but our primary demographic is youth who are in cris, kind of within that 13 to 24 age bracket. And we offer lifeline services like the old fashioned call and talk to somebody on the phone. We also offer a texting service. If somebody prefers to text, we can text. And, um, we're national, so we're all over the US and helped over a half million youth in crisis last year and have been an incredible resource. It's been such a gift for me to be a part of this team because they do such incredible life saving work. So that's what they're all about. And you can find them at, uh, thetrevorproject.org.

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> Speaker A>How did you actually find out about your dad's suicide?

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> Speaker B>Uh, that was an interesting one. So the narrative that I had always had from the time he passed away was that he had died of a massive heart attack. So he was 45 years old, and he was in great shape, except for the fact that he was a really heavy smoker.

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> Speaker B>So when I was told he had a heart attack, it wasn't like that was a stretch. It made sense, and it was nothing to ever question. And it wasn't for another three and a half decades that I found out that he had actually died by suicide. It was just a random conversation. Just. I bumped into my cousin, who I hadn't seen in ages, who's a little older than I am, and we were just catching up and talking about our kids, and in just the most randomest of ways, she asked me if my two daughters, who were like tweens, like teenagers at the time, asked if they had had the same kinds of depression and mental illness that my father had. And it blew me away.

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> Speaker B>I had no idea what she was talking about. I had no idea. I knew that my dad had been under a lot of stress because he had had a full time job working in Boston. We lived just north of Boston. So he had a busy, pretty, um, cumbersome full time job. And he also had another full time job, essentially running his family's real estate business. And so there's a lot of stress, but that was the extent of it as far as I was concerned.

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> Speaker B>And when my cousin made that comment, it just kind of opened a door. And I ultimately had a conversation with my mom.

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> Speaker B>It started making me wonder if he was depressed. But I never thought that it was a suicide. Never even. Never crossed my mind until I had a conversation with my mom. And I said, was dad depressed? And she said, yeah. And I said, did he take his life? And she said, yes. And I never expected it, never saw it coming. And it just kind of blew everything apart from that point. And I've just been putting pieces back together and trying to make sense of it all and learn how to live with it and learn how to make something purposeful from it.

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> Speaker A>Well, I know in your bio you say that we should not say committed suicide.

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> Speaker A>Talk about what you mean by that.

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> Speaker B>Yeah. I appreciate a lot that you picked up on that. It's something that a lot of people still don't recognize. It's become kind of, um, normal now in the mental health world, especially in that suicide prevention world, to not use that language anymore. But, like, the gen pop doesn't really necessarily know why.

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> Speaker B>When you use that word, you think about that word committed.

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> Speaker B>It really relates more to committing a crime or committing a sin or some kind of a negative or, um, some bad action. And that's not what suicide is. That's not what mental illness is. And so as a way of. Kind of trying to change the narrative on what mental illness is and to stop that stigma that surrounds it, we're trying to change the language. So it's been kind of this collective mind shift within that mental health community to remove that word, just to change it altogether. And instead of saying committed suicide, which kind of makes you think that it's some kind of a, uh, crime to do what someone did, we're repurposing it, and we're saying died by suicide or ended their life or took their life instead. And it's like how you get at the root of changing anything. You change how you talk about it, which leads to changing how you perceive it, and then it kind of dilutes that stigma. So that's kind of the thinking behind it.

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> Speaker A>Well, give us some best practice tips for anybody out there who has someone that they care about that's suicidal.

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> Speaker B>First thing is to ask them directly. That's the number one overarching tip you'll hear from anybody is talk to that person directly. Don't be afraid to use the scary words like suicide. That's a really scary word, and people are afraid to use it because they don't want to inject that idea into someone's head. People are worried if I say suicide, it's going to make them do something m to harm themselves. And that's not the case. It's not the case at all. When you use that language and you say very bluntly, are you thinking of killing yourself or are you thinking of harming yourself? That really shows that person that you understand how serious things are for them. You understand that they're in pain.

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> Speaker B>It's validating how upset they are or how lost or how hurt they are.

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> Speaker B>And so it really kind of gets directly to the issue and allows everybody to be open and vulnerable and honest. And that's how you help someone. If we're not honest in the way we ask and someone's not honest in the way they respond, this disconnect and you can't help. So I would say, first and foremost, it's language and asking.

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> Speaker B>The second thing I would say as far as the best practice goes is really just kind of keep the nine eight eight suicide and crisis lifeline number. Just keep it in your pocket, keep it in your phone, keep it on your brain. And when you or someone you know is either in crisis actively or they're struggling and you know that, just give them that number and encourage them to call it and remind them that there is no stigma attached to it. It's help. It's help. In the same way that you would go see the doctor if you hurt your arm, you go to a chiropractor. If your back hurt, you're calling a lifeline or a helpline to get help for your mental health.

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> Speaker B>So keep that number in mind is a big one. And I think the other best practice would be check in on people.

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> Speaker B>Just check in. Ask people how they are. Even if you don't think someone is going through a tough time or that they're struggling in some way, checking in is just a beautiful way to keep a connection, keep it flowing between you and the people that matter to you and let people know you're out there and that you care and, um, you're curious about them and what they're up to in life. So those are the top that I would say that people should just kind of lean into when they need to.

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> Speaker A>So tell us about the National alliance on Mental Health, and tell us, uh, what motivated you to become a storyteller for them.

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> Speaker B>Well, the National alliance of Mental Illness is really, um, a grassroots organization that it's been around for a really long time, and they just provide support and raise awareness, um, on generalized mental health and mental illness related issues. They offer support and education and advocacy, lots of different initiatives. Um, they have a helpline as well for people who are in crisis and people who are dealing with mental health issues in general.

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> Speaker B>And Nami has a really great program called share your story, and they train us. Um, it's a pretty involved, but amazing training process where you kind of hone your own story. Everybody has a story, right?

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> Speaker B>And some of our stories can be useful to other people who may be dealing with a similar situation, or they know someone who is, and they just want to be able to relate to someone, to feel like they're not alone.

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> Speaker B>And so they teach us how to tell our stories in a way that's impactful and that's useful. And then we go out, and there's state by state. Nami, um, has tons and tons of regional offices all around the country, and each one has their own storytelling program. And so they send us out within the state that we live in. So I'm here in Massachusetts.

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> Speaker B>So I go around Massachusetts to different organizations, like schools and police departments and different, uh, religious, um, organizations. And, um, anyone who wants to bring us in to tell a story, we go in and we share our experiences, and we do q as, and people can talk to us and ask us.

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> Speaker B>That's not necessarily just for suicide survivors. It's also for anyone who may be caring for someone who is experiencing mental illness or has had an experience. So it's kind of a nice gamut of experience, and we just go around and we share our story.

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> Speaker B>And I got involved with them because I just have learned in the last few years exactly how powerful sharing our stories really is in terms of changing the way people feel about mental illness and helping people get the help that they need. So I wanted to be involved, and I'm lucky enough that I am involved now.

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> Speaker A>All right, so you're a nationally syndicated columnist. You have a book and a podcast. So tell us about your column, your book, and your podcast.

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> Speaker B>Yeah, well, the podcast, um, it was actually a radio show, and it was called life unfiltered, and it's still out there, still out in the world on iTunes and iHeartradio. And, uh, my co author, um, on my last book, she and I actually got together and started this radio show here in Boston based on what, uh, our book was all about. So my last book was called how to raise perfectly imperfect kids and be okay with it. And this radio show was born out of that book, really talking about parents and family life and work life balance and that sort of thing. So that was on the air here in Boston for years, and has kind of converted into a podcast, and that's where it lives, in the ethernet.

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> Speaker B>But I took a hiatus. We took a little bit of a hiatus, um, kind of during COVID to work on different projects. So we're not actively recording that at the moment. But you can always find all the old life unfiltered episodes everywhere online. Um, my column, so I wrote a column for about a dozen years here in Boston called it is what it is, and it was syndicated all over the place, all over the country. And it was just like a random stream of consciousness. It was just me writing about things that I was involved in, in my life, like raising kids and work life balance. Again, that's similar to what we talked about on the radio. And, um, I stopped writing that column actively a couple of years ago when I was getting certified with Nami and when I was getting certified with Trevor project and wanted to kind of make space to do new.

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> Speaker B>Actually, this week, in fact, um, I just launched a brand new column with a very new mission and a new title. It's now called we are who we are, and it's here in Boston.

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> Speaker B>And the first issue came out this week, and it's similar in the tone and the vibe. It's all anecdotal, it's all my own experiences. But instead of being just about broadly about life, it's more about, um, mental health and suicide and grief and loss and having the hard conversations that people aren't always ready to have, the conversations that are uncomfortable or that are scary.

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> Speaker B>Um, and from my own experiences, a lot of what I talk about, um, when I have conversations like this here with you, and, um, I'm fortunate enough to be able to get out and speak quite a bit about mental health and wellness. And so these are all the things that I'm talking about out in the world. So I'm putting them in this column just to allow other people to join the conversation in a different way. So that's kind of my column, that was my book, that's the radio show.

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> Speaker B>And, um, other than that, I'm also actively every week adding to, um. I started a YouTube channel and I'm adding to a series that I started called the Suicide Survivor series. So they're short like 92nd video messages about my own experience with grief and loss and suicide and healing. Um, so I'm actively creating content for that every week. Those drop on Mondays, so doing lots of little things in lots of different pockets of, um, space in the world.

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> Speaker A>Well, that was my next question. Talk about any current or upcoming projects that you're working on that people need to know about your YouTube channel. Throw out your contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

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> Speaker B>Yeah, no, I would love that. Um, so to get a feel for everything that I do kind of all in one place, just go to. The easiest place is to go to my website. And that's at lisashugerman.com. But my YouTube channel is at theelisashugarman and people can subscribe and they can follow along. And like I said, every Monday I drop a new survivor series video. I also have all of my interviews. Um, lots of different types of content is on that, all relating to mental health and wellness. And the other project, aside from this book that I've been writing for the last, probably close to two years now, I'm really taking my time with this one. Um, that book is about my father's suicide and kind of the impact that it's had. The other big project has been this big redesign of my website just to make it a destination for mental health resources. And I've created a pretty long, comprehensive list of mental health resources broken down by category, like, um, for the Asian population, the elderly, children, BIPOC, um, resources for people who are looking for support online, uh, mental health resources, hotline numbers, everything. So I've got a really, um, cumbersome but very, um, easy to access mental health resources page that I've been building. And I continue to build that. Um, whenever there's a new resource, I add to that. So that's kind of constantly being updated and just really putting tons and tons of content out into the world to just normalize what it means to have mental illness and to live with that and to have grief and to live with that. That's kind of the whole, um, health and well being. The total health and well being of people is what I'm. What I'm shooting for.

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> Speaker A>Closing side with some final thoughts. Maybe if there was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners?

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> Speaker B>Yeah, I know. I think we hit all the big things. I think the only thing I would say is it's just so important to have conversations like you and I are having.

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> Speaker B>Just whether it's on a platform like this or whether it's having coffee with a friend or with a group, just to let yourself be vulnerable and let yourself be open and transparent about what's going on on the inside because people can't see it. People don't see it from the outside unless we show them. So show people as often as you can what's really going on on the inside, because that's how we make sure we always get what we need as far as help.

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> Speaker A>All right, ladies and gentlemen, lisasugarman.com.

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> Speaker A>Check her out. Check out everything that she's up to. If you know of somebody that, uh, is in need of this episode follow rate review, share it to as many people as possible. If you have any guests or suggestion topics, Cjackson 102 at Cox. Net is the place to send them. As always, thank you for listening. And Lisa, thank you for joining us and sharing your story.

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> Speaker B>Thanks, Curtis. I appreciate you.

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> Speaker A>For more information on the living the dream podcast, visit www.djcurveball.com.

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> Speaker A>Until next time, stay focused on living the dream dream.

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> Speaker B>Our channel.