Feb. 27, 2024

Living the dream with author, natural storyteller, and former attorney Ross Palfreyman

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Dive into the profound journey of joy and service with Ross palFreyman on the 'Living the Dream' podcast. Ross, a former attorney turned author, unravels the intricate relationship between faith, biblical studies, and the fulfillment we find in serving others. His touching tales and personal anecdotes promise to enlighten listeners on the pursuit of true happiness versus the everlasting joy that comes from selflessness. Don't miss this heart warming episode that could change your perspective on life's greatest rewards.

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> Speaker A>Welcome, um, to the living the dream podcast with curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve, cheat, cheat.

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> Speaker A>Welcome to the living the dream with curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire.

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> Speaker A>Today we're going to be talking about the roles of joy and service in our life as it relates, uh, to faith and biblical studies, as I am joined by author, natural storyteller and former attorney, Ross Powell Freeman.

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> Speaker A>Ross has used his book and everything that he's doing to talk about how faith and biblical studies can help us with the roles of joy and service in our life. So we're going to be talking to him about his story and his book and everything that he's up to. So uh, Ross, thank you so much for joining me today.

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> Speaker B>Thank you, Curtis, it's a pleasure.

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> Speaker A>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself.

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> Speaker B>All right. I grew up in southern California, was an attorney for 45 years, and during that time married Clarolyn, my wife. We had six children, we still have them and uh, 17 grandchildren. And I was just advised, uh, over the weekend that our first great grandchild is on. Um, so those things are pretty important to me, and especially as I get older, more than most, I no longer practice law, except for about a half a dozen cases that I'm trying to, uh, wind up. Uh, I wrote a book about the book came about as a result of a talk that I gave in a church meeting probably twelve years ago. People came up to me after that meeting and said that topic should be a book.

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> Speaker B>So it took me a dozen years, but I finally finished the book and it's now out on Amazon.com in various formats, hardback, paperback, kindle, and I just, uh, put it out in audio. So that's kind of where I am. Uh, the message that I have is, uh, I think pretty important. Uh, there's a difference between joy and happiness.

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> Speaker B>Most people look at the tail end of it and say, uh, one is deeper than the other. I believe that's true. But the important part of joy, uh, and happiness and making the distinguishing, um, part of it, um, is that it is, ah, the source of joy and the source of happiness that are different.

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> Speaker B>Um, and that's what I try to cover in the book.

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> Speaker A>Okay, well, before we jump into that, let the listeners know what kind of attorney you are or you were.

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> Speaker B>Okay. Uh, I did labor law in California. Probably 80% of it was defense work and 20% I represented, uh, the plaintiffs. Most of my work was either workers, uh, compensation or wrongful terminations or whistleblowers. And, um, I had, uh, some interesting cases over the years and I found that, uh, both sides had, uh, some merit. And so I tried to be balanced and equal. And so over the years, I, uh, had to learn that, uh, both sides had a point to be made.

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> Speaker B>And I remember when I first started, um, I started on the defense side only.

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> Speaker B>And I thought, oh, my gosh, everybody is, uh, a fraud.

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> Speaker B>As I got to figure out what was going on.

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> Speaker B>And I probably took 5000 depositions over the years. And as I took these depositions, I realized, no, these people are actually, uh, hurt. And the fraud cases that I ran across were actually quite few in number. But, um, I had to learn that over time. When I started out, I just thought, oh, people are just trying to game the system, but there is a little bit of that, but not very much. And then on the plaintiff side, uh, I felt like, well, no matter what I got them, um, it was not enough. So, uh, it was, uh, a double edged sword, uh, that business.

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> Speaker A>Okay, well, I know you spoke about the difference between joy and happiness, so explain to the listeners what you feel the difference is between joy and happiness.

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> Speaker A>And you talked about the source of joy and happiness. What's the best source for joy and happiness as well?

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> Speaker B>Okay. Um, I think the best way to start is, uh, by saying it very simply and then go into a few more details. Uh, joy comes from our service to others. And, um, you don't have to be a part of any particular religion. Uh, Buddhist, Christian, Catholic, Mormon, uh, you could be Hindu or none at all. Uh, God has made an open ended promise to us that as we serve his children, he has two great commandments in the christian world. Love God and show that love by loving your neighbors and, uh, serving them, taking care of them. Uh, the point in the book is that as you serve, uh, your neighbors, as you commit charity, uh, to them, God then blesses you with joy. And it's an indwelling, spiritual, uh, richness to your life that no matter what kinds of problems you're going through, if you have a disease or sick, uh, you have family squabbles over property, over politics, over whatever's going on in your life, you can still have joy as you look to the needs of other people and serve those needs. Uh, and that is a promise from God.

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> Speaker B>Happiness, on the other hand, about when you look at your own needs, your own desires. Uh, I'm pretty happy when I buy, uh, a pizza and I eat the pizza, I'm a happy guy. When I go to a dodger game, I'm a very happy guy. When I eat double stuffed oreos, um, if I see a play, I like les miserable. I really like, I've seen it lots of times and I could see it lots more. Those kinds of things that serve my needs or my desires, they can make me happy.

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> Speaker B>Uh, and the source for that happiness is my own effort. Uh, I go about trying to make myself happy, and I can do that.

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> Speaker B>I find that some of those, uh, kinds of things are somewhat fleeting and sometimes are hard to share. If I want to run a marathon that makes me happy, I work out every day. And by the way, I don't do that.

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> Speaker B>Um, then I can make myself happy and other people can be happy for me. But that's kind of.

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> Speaker B>Whereas when I serve other people, uh, the joy that comes from that has a ripple effect and affects not only me, but other people around me. And I have a couple of examples. There's a story in the book about, uh, my son Sam. In the second grade, uh, he was one of the better kids in the school in terms of reading.

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> Speaker B>He sat next to another kid who could, uh, not read at grade level. And later on I learned from Mr. Dahlberg, his teacher, that that was a problem. I was assigned by my wife to go back to the, uh, open house near the end of the year. Uh, I didn't like to go to those very much. I kind of felt like the year was over and it was time to move on to, uh, summer.

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> Speaker B>And so I wasn't that excited about going. But this time I had to go. I went and, uh, I settled myself into Sam's little desk. And, um, while Mr. Dahlberg was finishing his talk, I started rifling through Sam's things. And out of the desk, I pulled a little Star wars pencil box.

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> Speaker B>And it was really kind of, uh. And I was playing with it, and I'd never seen it before. And I looked up, I kind of noticed somebody was standing in front of me. And I looked up, and it was Mr.

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> Speaker B>Dahlberg. And he said, that's a nice little pencil box, isn't it? And I said, yes. And he said, you're Mr.

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> Speaker B>Pal Freeman. I said, yes. And he said, you know, I'd like to tell you the story about that pencil box. I said, okay.

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> Speaker B>Uh, thinking that, oh, boy, maybe my son Sam had lifted it from someone or something. Uh, and Mr. Dahlberg then went on to say that the boy sitting next to Sam all year was a boy who could not read. When he came into the second grade, Mr. Dahlberg was nervous and worried that he may have to hold this, uh, kid back a year because he couldn't read. But as the year went on, Sam taught this boy how to read by staying in at recesses and lunches.

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> Speaker B>And they together, uh, learned how to read. And this pencil box was a gift from the boy's parents.

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> Speaker B>And as Mr. Dahlberg told the story, he had tears, uh, well, up in his eyes. And the tears started to run down his cheeks. And I was quite choked up by it. I, uh, wasn't anywhere near the service that was provided. I only heard about it later. But the impact it had on me was to bring me joy, uh, that that service had occurred and that it was, uh, performed by my son. It's kind of an example of, um, how joy comes about. You care about somebody and, uh, you have compassion, uh, in that you want to do something about it, and then you actually do something about it. And then that joy that comes into your life can be shared with other people.

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> Speaker B>Happiness, on the other hand, is kind of a one off.

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> Speaker B>Uh, you go to a party and there's a bunch of your friends, they're sitting around and talking about an event that they all participated in.

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> Speaker B>And they're laughing and having a good time. And clearly they're happy about it. And you sit by and you say, uh, I don't get it. And the, uh, comment oftentimes then is, yes, you had to be there. And for happiness, I think you have to be there for joy. You don't have to be there. That spiritual feeling, that indwelling, that you feel, uh, can be people. So the pencil box story is one that's in the book, um, that people like. Because it does show that, uh, the effects of how you serve other people, of when you serve other people, uh, can be felt by others as well. Not just by the person serving or the person receiving the service.

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> Speaker B>Um, I have a story that differentiates between, uh, caring, compassion and, uh, charity. And the funny thing about, uh, it doesn't present me in the best light, but I think it's, uh, appropriate. So I was sitting on the stand of my congregation as one of the leaders at the time. And there was a young boy, a twelve year old by the name of Dominique.

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> Speaker B>And he had been ordained, um, allowed to pass the sacrament in our congregation.

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> Speaker B>And almost always when these boys at age twelve, get, uh, that privilege, that right, they, uh, immediately start passing the sacrament.

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> Speaker B>It's kind of a rite of passage. But Dominique didn't. And I looked down at him for a couple of weeks, thought, well, what's the problem? And I went and asked him, uh, after one of these, said, you know, dominique, how come you're not passing the sacrament?

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> Speaker B>And he said, well, he was from a poor part of our town. And he said, well, I don't have the right clothes. He comes to church in Levi's and a plaid shirt and tennis shoes.

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> Speaker B>And he was nervous about passing the sacrament, not being dressed, uh, appropriately, which would mean a white shirt and a tie.

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> Speaker B>So I thought, oh, that's too bad. And, uh, that night, my wife and I were talking, and I told her about Dominique and the problem he had. No, he felt like he couldn't pass the sacrament because he didn't have the appropriate clothing.

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> Speaker B>And my wife looked at me like, well, what a dork you are. And I looked at her and she looked at me. And thankfully, she didn't call me that, but, uh, that's what she was thinking. And she said, well, you can fix that. And I cared enough that, uh, I found out what the problem was, but I didn't have the next two steps.

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> Speaker B>And the next step was compassion to actually think, okay, this poor kid. What needs to be done to fix his problem? And it didn't come to me, but it came to my wife. And she said, well, you can fix it. You can go get him a white shirt and a tie.

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> Speaker B>Problem solved. So she had the compassion to think, okay, how do we solve the problem? And then that week, uh, I picked up Dominique and we went to, uh, the store, Nordstrom's in Glendale. And, uh, I got him a white shirt and a tie. And it felt really good that I was doing that. I felt great about. So, so good, in fact, that we got the pants and the shoes and the whole thing. And it was wonderful. And that next Sunday, Dominique was passing the sacrament. Problem, uh, solved.

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> Speaker B>But it took three steps. I only considered one of them.

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> Speaker B>I cared. But beyond that, my wife had to remind me about compassion and charity. And you need all three, uh, for that to work.

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> Speaker B>So that kind of stayed in my mind, uh, for a long time afterwards. Um, and as I started thinking about this book, I thought, boy, uh, I have more bad examples of me. And I have to use examples of other people, for the most part, for these three steps. Uh, but if you accomplish those three steps of service, involved in service, which is caring, compassion and charity, then joy comes into your life, no matter what other adversity you may have. And, uh, that's kind of the basic proposition. Uh, that I set forth in the book and I have several stories that, uh, show examples of how that occurs, uh, as opposed to happiness, which is just figuring out what you want for yourself and then going out and working at it.

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> Speaker B>Um, sometimes the happiness side, you can't always do, um, and so that becomes a challenge in your life. But I think that, uh, what we do look at, uh, when we look at joy is that can happen at any time, um, in our lives. And we just have to open our eyes to, um, what we can do for people, no matter what our own circumstances are. So that's kind of the gist of the book. Uh, I think the brambles, the title of the book came about as a result of, uh, my working in my yard, and I planted blackberries and raspberries. And it's pretty cool. I get to go pick them. But, uh, most people know that blackberries, uh, and raspberries have bramble, um, branches and bushes. And then they're a bush, they're very bushy and they have prickly branches and you have to reach through those branches to get to the fruit.

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> Speaker B>And those, uh, brambles, uh, I equate to impediments, uh, to joy, which is the fruit in our lives. And if we can, uh, navigate, uh, those branches, uh, we can get to joy. And I think that if we understand how to get to joy, the branches become pretty easy to navigate.

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> Speaker B>And you don't, uh, too scratched up by it if you know what the fruit is and the value of getting to the fruit.

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> Speaker A>Okay, well, I definitely didn't know that tidbit about the berry, so that's real good. What advice would you give to a person who is struggling to find that way when it goes as far as service or joy and happiness or both?

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> Speaker B>All right, um, that's a good question. I'll raise a, ah, story near the end of the book. Um, and this one's about me. And I actually, uh, did the right thing. Uh, there are not a lot of stories about me doing the right thing, but I did put it at the end so people would remember it, uh, about me. So, uh, as an attorney, I oftentimes would have to drive to various courthouses around southern California and sometimes into northern California, and oftentimes I would be in San Diego in the morning and la in the afternoon. So I did lots and lots of driving, which is pretty frustrating. And oftentimes, uh, there'd be a lot of traffic and I would get off the freeway and just take surface streets home because it was more interesting. But it took longer, um, but I could move, and it wasn't just parked on the freeway.

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> Speaker B>So this one time I was going through a poor part of town. It's about 530 or so. And I called my wife and I said, you know, it's going to take me forever to get home, so I'll just stop and get something to eat. I saw McDonald's. I turned left into the McDonald's parking lot, but it was crowded. And so I saw cvs pharmacy right there. And, um, so I pulled into, uh, the parking lot for CvS pharmacy. And this was in the springtime of the year. And I walked into the Cvs pharmacy and there was a very, and her three or four year old son, the son had pulled down, uh, a DVD called Rudolph the red nose reindeer that was on sale at CvS because in the spring they're trying to get rid of it. And it was$4.99. And I was very frustrated. I had two court cases. I had a lot of driving, and I was tired. And it was just kind of a crummy day. And I saw this little boy wanting Rudolph the red nosed reindeer. And I walked by him and his mother and I went into the store and I got my usual meal, uh, for that kind of a trip, which consisted of cheetos, a diet mountain dew, uh, I think a milky way. I went up to the, uh, counter to pay, and this, uh, young mother and her son were right behind me. And he was still wanting, uh, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer. And his, uh, mom was still telling him that she couldn't afford it. I put my, uh, m on the conveyor belt and I just walked over to the rack and picked up Rudolph the red nosed reindeer and put it with my stuff, paid for it. And then I just turned around and handed it to the little boy. As soon as I handed it to him, I realized, okay, people could take this in a very bad way. This is a cute young mother and am I trying anything weird?

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> Speaker B>Um, so I didn't look up at her. I just looked at him. He smiled at me like, uh, his world, uh, had, uh, become wonderful.

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> Speaker B>And he now had his Rudolph the red nose reindeer dvd. And I grabbed my stuff and I walked out to the car. And usually I eat that stuff and spill it all over myself as I'm driving home. This time I just sat in the car and I felt this just wonderful peace, uh, come over me as a result of doing this little favor for this boy. It cost me 499 to have joy in my life, to put aside all the, um, arguments and things that went on during the day and the traffic that I had faced up to that point and was going to face the rest of the day, and none of it mattered anymore. I felt quite at ease with my life and everything was wonderful, uh, for$4.99. So when things happen to us in our lives, um, they are bad and they are crummy and we live in a world with all kinds of, uh, problems.

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> Speaker B>Politically, um, you can't take a side without getting into an argument with somebody in the family.

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> Speaker B>People argue, uh, over property and over money and all kinds of things.

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> Speaker B>There are just so many things that can go wrong. Health issues can happen, uh, all kinds of things. But if you look, uh, to help someone else, your troubles don't go away. I mean, I still had to get on the freeway and drive home, but they seem to take on a smaller, uh, amount of your attention than before. And this joy seems to crowd out the, uh, pain that comes with some of those things.

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> Speaker B>Um, so I think that's one of those blessings from God that, yes, take away all of the bad things.

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> Speaker B>But the very cool way to cope with those bad things is to serve other people so that joy comes into your life and those problems take, uh, a little bit of a backseat, uh, to the joy that you can feel, which is promised you, uh, all the time.

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> Speaker A>Well said. Tell the listeners about any current or upcoming projects that you're working on that people need to know about.

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> Speaker B>Okay. One of the things that I've been doing is, as I wrote the book, as I said, it took twelve years to write. And I thought, actually, with, uh, my 17 grandkids, my six kids, my wife, there's lots of worldly things I'm passing on to them.

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> Speaker B>But this idea of joy is something that, um, is really quite and maybe the most important thing that I can leave, uh, as a legacy to my children and grandchildren and now a great grandchild.

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> Speaker B>And so what I've been trying to do is figure out how to disseminate this message to people on, uh, podcasts like yours, uh, people who care about, uh, their lives and how to better live them, um, and then spread this message, because I think that it's not totally unique. I mean, my book has all kinds of quotes from all kinds of people, from all walks of life, about happiness and joy. Um, but I think if you can distinguish between the two a little better, then you have a better shot at, uh, getting both.

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> Speaker B>Uh, I tell a story in the book about Roy Herbert, and he was one of my little league players, I coached a little league baseball, uh, team in Laguna Beach, California.

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> Speaker B>And we had a bunch of young guys. It was ten to twelve years old, and we had a bunch of ten year olds and we actually won our league in Laguna beach. And we went to the tournament of champions for Orange county. And we got to the semifinal game and we were losing to a very good twelve year old pitcher, four to two. We had a runner on first and two outs in the last inning.

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> Speaker B>And, um, a twelve year old was at the plate who was not a very good hitter and he was not going to hit the ball against this pitcher.

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> Speaker B>Uh, it was pretty easy to tell. And the next batter was another twelve year old who was overall maybe the worst hitter on our team.

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> Speaker B>Um, so I called Roy, who was a ten year old, and he ran up to me and I said, okay, you're going to pinch hit for this next batter. And he was excited. He went and got his helmet and his bat. He came back over to me and he said, coach, and sometimes I wish he hadn't said it, uh, but he did.

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> Speaker B>He said, coach, this, um, next batter we was going to substitute for, he was going to pinch hit for this is probably the last time he'll ever play organized baseball. And do you think we should let him bat and give him a chance? And, uh, it really struck at my heartstrings because nothing would have made me happier to have Roy get up, home run and tie the game. Uh, that was happiness. But Joy was seeing the needs of someone else. And Roy saw the needs of that twelve year old, that he should have a chance. And I looked at Roy and I thought about it and I thought, you know, you're right.

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> Speaker B>And so Roy went and sat down, and the next twelve year old, uh, the first twelve year old struck out.

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> Speaker B>The second twelve year old got up, uh, to bat. And if this were a hallmark move, he would have hit a home run and tied the game, but wasn't a hallmark. And we lost the game.

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> Speaker B>But I didn't feel so bad about losing that game. I actually felt quite, uh, good about it. We had done the right thing.

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> Speaker B>For me, that one is an example of needing to understand the difference between happiness and joy.

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> Speaker B>And that most of the time I think you can have both. But every once in a while you have to choose, uh, do you want happiness or do you want joy? And I think if you think about it, for the most part, you'll want joy.

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> Speaker B>But if you don't know the difference, uh, then you won't even know you have the choice or you won't understand the choice. And, uh, Roy Herbert taught me that. In fact, I have a picture of him up on my wall at home.

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> Speaker B>Uh, it really struck me as a deep seated lesson that he taught me, this ten year old boy.

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> Speaker B>Uh, so what I really hope people get out of this is how do you get to joy? How do you get to happiness?

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> Speaker B>And it would help them to make the choice. And more often than not, I think you can choose joy at a time in your life when things maybe are not going perfectly well. And it can turn your life around just by doing small, uh, things for people. They don't have to be big, uh, things. They can be just small everyday courtesies that can make your life, uh, better. So I do try to go out and tell, uh, people about this. Um, I've started up a, uh, website where people can share these stories because sometimes I think we get so busy in life that we don't stop and think, okay, here's what I have to do today. And we have our list of 20 things we've got to get done. And we don't put in there, uh, any kind of service because we got to get our stuff done.

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> Speaker B>And sometimes we forget joy in our lives that is possible. So the big thing is for me to try to get uh, that message out that I think probably is the best message that I could give anyone.

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> Speaker B>Um, so that's kind of what I'm up to. I've thought about writing another book on the brambles themselves, uh, how they can trip us up and how we can avoid them, uh, so that joy becomes, uh, easier to get to.

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> Speaker B>Um, and I'm outlining that, uh, that's about the extent of that for the moment.

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> Speaker A>Okay, well, so people can keep up with everything that you're up to. Throw out your contact info.

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> Speaker B>Okay. And, uh, the website is Lebsockventures.

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> Speaker B>Uh, L-E-B-S-O-C-K ventures, uh.com.

00:29:35.064 --> 00:29:40.680
> Speaker B>And some people say, well, Ross, that's a very complicated website name. Where did that come from?

00:29:41.769 --> 00:30:11.680
> Speaker B>I played basketball at Southern Utah university, uh, and we were, uh, visiting, uh, another university and playing ball there. And everybody on our team, the names were up on the scoreboard with their numbers, uh, next to the name, but somebody had goofed up and next to my number was the name Lepsoc. And that kind of stuck for a while. So that's, uh, the website, lepsocventures.com.

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> Speaker A>Right? Ladies and gentlemen, lepsocventures.com closes out with some final thoughts, maybe if that was something I forgot to touch on that you would like to talk about, or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

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> Speaker B>I think that, uh, the most important thing to remember as you go through life is at least, uh, if you don't believe in God, at least have a hope in him, because he is the actual source of our joy. And if you at least have a hope in him, uh, that will help you, uh, to look at other people's needs, uh, and figure out how to address them, uh, whether they be large or small. And I think that's the most important thing.

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> Speaker A>All right, ladies and gentlemen, be sure to go pick up Ross's book. Check out his website. Keep up with everything that he's up to. And like you said, just remember to do small things for people every day as much as possible, because you never know what somebody's going through and how, uh, you can help them out and make their lives better.

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> Speaker A>Follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible, and if you have any guests or suggestion topics, CJackson 102 at Cox. Net is the place to send them. As always, thank you for listening. And Ross, thank you so much for joining us.

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> Speaker B>Thank you. Uh, very fun.

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> Speaker A>For more information on the Living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurveball.com.

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> Speaker A>Until next time, stay focused on living the dream. Dream.