May 12, 2024

Living the dream with adiction expert and life and finance coach Logan Hufford

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In this profound episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we are joined by Logan Hufford, a personal finance coach endorsed by Dave Ramsey and an addiction recovery specialist. Logan opens up about his tumultuous journey from the throes of pornography addiction to his transformative path of recovery and healing. He shares insights into the dangers of porn, the power of faith-based programs like Prodigals International, and the importance of confronting addictions head-on. Logan also delves into the parallels between overcoming addiction and mastering personal finance, emphasizing the significance of healthy routines and mindful choices. Tune in for an episode that not only educates but offers a beacon of hope for those struggling with addiction and financial woes.

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> Speaker A>Welcome, um, to the Living the Dream podcast with Curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today we're going to be talking about addiction recovery and personal finance, as I am joined by Dave Ramsey endorsed personal finance coach and addiction recovery specialist Logan Hufford. Logan spent years destroying his marriage and his life, as well as other people's lives, being addicted to porn. He got it all turned around.

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> Speaker A>He's going to tell you how. And he's also a Dave Ramsey endorsed personal finance coach. So not only is he helping people with addiction, but he's also helping people that need it in the way of finance. So, Logan, thank you so much for joining me today.

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> Logan Hufford>Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

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> Speaker A>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself, for sure.

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> Logan Hufford>So, as you shared in that open, uh, I went from an addiction to pornography, uh, as a kid, to really an addiction to the high that came from any attention or stimulation, um, related to sexual interactions. And that might sound kind of nebulous, but I mean, it really, it was an all encompassing thing. It started with porn, but then it went to interactions with women. And it got to the point where shortly before I got married, um, in, uh, so this would have been in 2010. I got married in 2011. 2010, I had my first affair and cheated on my fiance, which then that damn broke. And then I started, um, just completely in this cycle of constant affairs, constant pornography, prostitutes, um, I mean, just a very dark double life that I did everything I could to keep it secret, keep it hidden.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, and it was truly, again, it was an addiction to the hit that I would get from. From all of these things. And it wasn't until I met some men. And I'll tell you right now, this is tricky, because I'm doing my best to, uh, you know, to give, like, the super, super aerial view of all this. Right.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, there's obviously a lot of details, and feel free to zoom in or ask any clarifying questions, but it, um, wasn't until I sat down in 2016, uh, still not sober, still not healed, not by a long shot. But I started going to some meetings and started to do some things. And I went to a meeting called prodigals. And at that meeting, there were multiple guys who had a similar story to me who had years of addiction to porn, years of acting out with other women, years of hurting their wives or, you know, I mean, not all of them were married, but most of them were.

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> Logan Hufford>And yet there were 810 guys that had that story and had restored and healed lives. Um, not just that they weren't acting out, but they were actively healthy. Um, just. You would never have known that these guys were raging addicts.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, most of their marriages and their families were restored.

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> Logan Hufford>Not all. And that's a key thing.

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> Logan Hufford>I can only control my own choices. I obviously can't, uh, control, you know, whether or not my family unit can be restored, my marriage. But. But most of them even had restored marriages. And God used that to bring me a lot of hope because I.

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> Logan Hufford>All I had for years was darkness. Um, hated myself, hated the fact that I was on this earth, because all I did was hurt people.

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> Logan Hufford>And that was still the early point of a recovery journey, but, um, got into a voluntary house arrest recovery program, Christ based twelve step recovery program called the Prodigals Mentorship, and two years later, in 2018, graduated from that and have, uh, never looked back. Um, recovery has been a constant part of my life since then. And as you mentioned, and I do want to make clear, I'm not going on podcasts, uh, to sell anything or put myself out there specifically as a coach. Only reason I even mention it in my bio is because I do very intentionally utilize the gifts that God has given me through recovery, um, to help folks get healthy with their choices, get help with their routines and their behaviors, whether it's, you know, not looking at pornography and flirting with women, uh, on Monday nights at my recovery group, or helping folks stay away from impulsive credit card, you know, purchases on Monday morning, um, and kind of everything in between.

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> Speaker A>Okay, so you said that you got addicted to porn as a kid. Can you explain that for sure?

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> Logan Hufford>And that right there is a microcosm, as you'll hear, of, uh, just how addiction works and how it looked in my life. Because it's progressive, it doesn't stay as any one thing. I, uh, grew up in a really conservative, very safe, very loving home. Um, that's another piece to my story, is my story is incredibly boring, like the way it starts out, and yet it's kind of unique in that way because a lot of guys have trauma and abuse and things of that nature that you can point to. Go, okay, well, yeah, no wonder this guy got wrapped up in his stuff. I didn't have that.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, but when I was about nine years old, I don't remember the specific age, but I think it was around nine.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, didn't know how sex worked, didn't know how masturbation worked. Didn't know any of that. But I knew that I liked seeing pictures of women in lingerie and bikinis, that kind of thing. And we didn't have dirty magazines, and we didn't have anything like that.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, and I'm older than some, younger than some, but this was also dial up Internet. We didn't have smartphones, I mean, but I could find the JCPenney catalogs and things like that, and there would always be at least a couple pages in there that I could, uh, see. And I started to get that hit again.

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> Logan Hufford>I didn't know what to do with it, right? Like, I didn't understand biologically what, what to do with myself. I just knew that, okay, this has given me a rush, and I like this. And that graduated to looking at pictures online, which then graduated to videos. By, um, that time, I, um, had learned about masturbation. And so then it was this whole other layer.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, and one thing I've since learned, you know, in recovery is just the.

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> Logan Hufford>Again, from the biological perspective, it's one.

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> Logan Hufford>I mean, I can be addicted just by looking and getting that hit. I can train myself to chase that, you know, pavlov's dog kind of thing. But once I introduce sex and or masturbation, then it's a whole other level, because now my body is literally, there's.

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> Logan Hufford>It's a glue, essentially, that's what's happening. Psychological glue. And I'm, and I'm training my brain. This feels good.

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> Logan Hufford>This is something I should continue chasing.

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> Logan Hufford>And eventually, whatever I'm looking at right now, whatever stimulating me right now, that's not going to keep doing it. I'm going to need to chase something dirtier, something worse, something more. Um, and it manifests differently in different guys, but it never stays the exact same. Um, there's a saying, and I'll probably butcher it, but addiction will take me further than I want to go for, longer than I want to be there, you know, and hurt more people than I ever thought I would or something to that nature.

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> Logan Hufford>It's absolutely true. Um, you know, I go in looking for one thing, and before I know it, I'm in this cave.

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> Logan Hufford>And I always emphasize, I got myself into that cave. I took the steps to get myself there. Nobody put me there. But that also doesn't change the fact that at one point, uh, uh, eventually, uh, I was in a cave. And literally, like, okay, I don't know how to get out of here. And that's a tricky balance, because addiction, you know, if people are at all familiar with anything from recovery.

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> Logan Hufford>You know, a lot of people have heard the phrase, like, I'm powerless to stop, I'm powerless to control.

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> Logan Hufford>And that can very easily sound like, okay, so it's not my fault. And I've heard people say things of that nature, you know, when they're, um, you know, they're kind of. They're not, they're not a fan of recovery. They're not a fan of twelve step or, you know, man addiction. Okay, it's one thing if you're addicted to heroin, but you can't be addicted to something like that. It's like, no, no, no, absolutely, I can become addicted to anything.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, and it's not that, it's not my fault, it's I'm in control of my individual choices.

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> Logan Hufford>But at some point, when I've gotten myself so trained, I'm no longer in control of whether or not I feel urges and my brain literally starts to deteriorate. And that's not a figure of speech.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, there are, I mean, a quick Google search. You know, people can, can do this.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, the effects on my brain from masturbating compulsively to pornography, it's a similar effect, brain damage wise, as long standing cocaine abuse.

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> Logan Hufford>And that started with me as about a nine year old kid.

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> Speaker A>Which brings me to my next question. In your bio, you say that porn is dangerous.

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> Speaker A>Why do you say that?

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> Logan Hufford>Well, there's a few different angles that I could come from here.

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> Logan Hufford>I mean, on one hand, I'm a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe in the Bible. Um, and, you know, the idea of lust, the idea of me, you know, picturing myself or fantasizing about a woman's sexually, that's lust, that's sin. So, um, there's very much. There's a christian perspective that should more or less be obvious. But if somebody's an atheist or somebody has different beliefs, it's absolutely destructive, purely. Even if you don't, you know, you don't believe in a God, you don't believe just from a biological perspective. Um, when. So when somebody has an addiction, and when I say addiction, I don't just mean something like, oh, man, I I just, you know, can't stop buying rabbits or I just can't stop, uh, you know, playing, playing this, you know, this game on my phone.

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> Logan Hufford>Like those things might be kind of an addiction, but I mean, something that's like, it's destroying my life. You know, I got addiction to heroin, I got addiction to pornography. I got an addiction to alcohol, um, when the addiction starts, maturity essentially stunts, it stops. And if anybody knows someone that is, you know, 30 years old, 40 years old, 50 years old, and they've got a serious addiction to something, ask that question, does this person act like a twelve year old? So they act, and I don't mean that making fun of anyone, but, uh, if somebody knows an addict like that, the answer is usually gonna be yes. And again, that's not saying that nothing's their fault. But literally, when they got into that addiction, when they started giving control over to a substance or to an, um, unhealthy pattern, their maturity, psychologically and emotionally, and in some cases, physically, uh, uh, when it comes to the brain, literally got stunted and that can be reversed, which is a newer, um, um, finding scientifically that, you know, that I can retrain my brain, I can actually regrow parts of my brain that I had that have been deformed, um, um, I'll stop rambling. But again, I mean, it's, it's something where if people want to know more, I mean, they could, they can reach out. I, I, um, have an email that goes straight just directly to me or my wife because she, she has her ministry as well, working with women that have been betrayed, um, by a man struggling with sexual addiction. But, so if people have questions, they can reach out. But also if somebody truly wants to know the truth about this, um, no matter what your beliefs are, a quick Google search can turn this stuff up. But there's also some specific resources I can recommend.

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> Speaker A>So tell us about prodigal, explain what that is. And if it's nationwide, worldwide, and if people need to reach out to, ah, prodicle, can they do so? If so, how?

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> Logan Hufford>Absolutely. So Prodigals International is a nonprofit organization, um, and it is, it is worldwide. And, um, you know, they put out some curriculum and they've got groups now, that organization, the meeting that I lead on Monday nights, and there's another meeting in Anchorage, which is an hour south of where I live up here in Alaska.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, we are part of Prodigals International and we use their curriculum, um, in our mentorship program, that kind of thing. But the groups are pretty decentralized.

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> Logan Hufford>So one thing I've learned about recovery is every group, every meeting, it's only as strong as the people in it and the people leading it. So what I don't want to do is to say, hey, if you are living in any city on earth, if you can find a prodigals meeting, I promise you you will find healthy people there and you will find healing. I'm not going to promise that because I don't know, uh, you know, there's maybe a meeting, and I'm just making this up, but if there's some random meeting in Orlando and it's led by a guy that's got, you know, two months of sobriety who's doing his best, but I don't know what you would find. I can speak to what you would find here in Alaska, and I can speak to, um, what you would find if you connect, you know, with, with someone that has some serious healing. Um, again, I'm not going to pretend like I'm going to be able to fix anyone. I can't do that. But I'm definitely available as a resource if somebody has questions, if they want to get pointed in the right direction. Um, so again, I'll make sure my email is there. You can put it in the show notes.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, and while I don't have a network of, okay, there's 20 different meetings in all these different cities and they're all incredible, I don't have that.

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> Logan Hufford>But I've also connected with men who have serious healing, serious recovery in this area, um, who do live in multiple states across the US. Um, we're talking a handful of states, but at the same time, there are quite a few areas where there are men that have victory in this area in terms of what prodigals is. Um, again, the groups are fairly decentralized, but they're all going to be. They, um, are faith based. So, I mean, they are centered around a faith in Jesus Christ.

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> Logan Hufford>Somebody, um, doesn't have to be a Christian to attend a group. The, um, way I always put it is, you know, you're going to hear a lot about God. You're going to hear a lot about Jesus.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, you know, you don't have to be a Christian to come, but you're going to hear a lot about them. Um, but it's a beautiful marriage of science and how my brain works, how my body works, how I can biologically retrain myself mixed with faith, it's not one or the other, which is. That's a whole other conversation we could spend an hour on.

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> Logan Hufford>But it's a really, really common thing when people, um, are focused on addiction.

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> Logan Hufford>And addiction recovery is there tend to be this, this look is like, okay, well, you either if you're a Christian or if you're faith based, you just need to pray more, read your Bible more, go to more Bible studies, you know, talk to more pastors, and then you've got the other group that's like, no, no, no, you don't need that God thing. You don't need that.

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> Logan Hufford>All you need is science. And it's. It's. It's a mixture of both that we do in prodigals.

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> Speaker A>Okay, so you mentioned your wife does her own ministry. How was she able to, you know, trust you after all you put her through?

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> Speaker A>And if there's women out there that have, uh, issues of where they've been betrayed, kind of talk about her ministry, too, if they want to check it out.

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> Logan Hufford>I am really thankful that you asked about that, because, I mean, as much as I want to share what God has done in my life, I want to shed light on that and give some hope. Um, you know, that's just one piece. And what my wife has gone through, but I put her through, and the recovery and healing that she has found, that's a whole other piece. Um, I'm blessed to be able to serve alongside her. We've shared our testimony many times.

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> Logan Hufford>Someday I would love to do podcasts with her. Um, she's still, uh, with raising those four monkeys we got at home. She's like, ah, I'm not ready to do podcasts yet. Um, so when I got into recovery, seriously approaching recovery, not just playing around with. Attending a meeting here or. There was 2016, March was my first meeting at prodigals. My wife and I got sober in May of 20. Uh, 16. My wife started attending just two months later. Um, partners in process is the group that she now leads, the group that she went to, and it's specifically for women who have been harmed by sexual betrayal. Um, a husband or partner that's addictive pornography, having affairs, all of the above.

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> Logan Hufford>And it is such a.

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> Logan Hufford>As much as I didn't have hope, I didn't think that there was a different way. The exact same thing is felt by a woman who's hurt by that. We just don't talk about this stuff. Um, and I'll tell you right now, I was raised in the church. I was raised in a christian family, and I am a Christian, and I have all the love for God and for church. And yet, the way that a lot of times, faith based people approach this is jacked up, because. And it's not. It's not just, you know, from religious folks, but there's a common bit of advice that'll get put out there is like, okay, well, you need to just love your husband more, and you better not get divorced. Because divorce is wrong. And, you know, just be a better wife and, you know, just make sure that he, huh.

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> Logan Hufford>Has no reason to cheat on you, which is absolutely garbage advice, and I understand the logic, but it's so wrong. I never cheated on my wife because she wasn't good enough. I never cheated on her because she wasn't a good wife. She was an incredible wife, a gorgeous wife. Worked her butt off.

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> Logan Hufford>And yet, I had already trained myself before I ever met her to chase after this stuff. So in her recovery, she learned what she was in control of. She learned, number one, my addiction was not because of her.

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> Logan Hufford>For better or for worse, it was not because of her. And also that she couldn't, um, you know, that codependency is a big thing that they work on, too, is that, you know, she can't fix me. Um, but one of the biggest pieces I always put out there when it comes to her story is, and I'm going backwards a little bit, but in 2015, she gave me an ultimatum. I had had another affair after countless affairs. And she said, if. If you do not make serious change, if you don't get serious help, I'm gone. And so were the kids. We already had three boys. She was pregnant with our fourth. And I knew that she meant that because she doesn't give cheap talk. And that scared me. I did not want to lose my family.

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> Logan Hufford>And, uh, so, I mean, if anyone's doing the math at home, there's still a whole year before I actually got sober. But that was the start of when I started trying to do anything.

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> Logan Hufford>And I always point out, you know, my wife, the incredible thing that she did wasn't that she stayed with me. It wasn't that she was loyal. That wasn't the incredible thing. She had every right to divorce me. Um, you know, even as a Christian, you know, it's like, the Bible's clear on that.

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> Logan Hufford>I was sexually unfaithful multiple times.

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> Logan Hufford>She could have divorced me, had every right to. The incredible thing was that she had the courage to stand up to her abuser and say, logan, I can't control if you keep hurting me. But if you do keep hurting me, I can control how I respond, and how I will respond now will be different than how I responded before.

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> Logan Hufford>Now I will leave you if you do this again.

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> Logan Hufford>And I'd never had anyone look me in the face and say anything like that, let alone my wife. So that was the first step for both of us to have a new way of doing things. And, um, again, as I say, you know, this is our life's work. This is her life's work.

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> Logan Hufford>So, um, now she mentors women one on one and in a group, um, you know, helping them through that betrayal trauma and helping them focus on what they can do to heal, um, things that they shouldn't necessarily be focused on, you know, that kind of staying away from the bad advice and just helping women be healthy.

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> Speaker A>Okay, so you're a Dave Ramsey endorsed financial coach. So tell us how you got that and just, uh, you know, quickly what you do to help people as far as finance.

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> Logan Hufford>Sure. So I've been doing that for a little over three years now, um, about three and a half years. And I. It's even in my Dave Ramsey bio, it's like, I am not a, uh, finance nerd. Uh, I'm not somebody that, like, has all the expertise on all the best budgets in the world, and I'm going to teach you all the tips and tricks.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, I do have a background, uh, in some financial stuff. Um, is on the other side, on the debt side, helping folks get into debt, basically. Um, but I do have a background working with folks around credit and finance. But it was its recovery that absolutely made this an obvious choice.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, it was okay at this point, it had been, uh, like four and a half, five years that I'd been active in recovery. And when the idea of coaching people around finances, like, okay, well, I've never even thought about that. But, you know, I'm, I've been doing that for the last several years with men in this area. Like, why not help them make healthier choices when it comes to their finances? And I specialize very much on, on playing defense.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, you know, I. Again, there's other coaches that are going to have probably better ideas on the best app or the best, you know, spreadsheet and how. But, you know, I always make it very clear to folks, you know, what I do know is human behavior. And I. And I know what it takes to build good habits. I know what it takes to change unhealthy habits, unhealthy behavior, and unhealthy mindsets.

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> Logan Hufford>And I don't get into all the specifics of, you know, my story, uh, with folks, but I also don't shy away from the fact that, yeah, um, you're not going to find a bunch of diplomas on my wall that are going to impress you. My background is recovery. My background is, um, I have my story, and I have a lot of experience working with people at this point, both in recovery, but also in coaching. Um, which also means that I'm not going to be everyone's first choice. I'm not going to be for everyone. Because if you're going to work with me again, I recognize not everyone is an addict to spending, but I'm going to approach it from a similar angle of, okay, what do we need to work on? What do we need to take ownership of, what things do we need to stop doing, what things we need to do differently? And there's a lot of accountability.

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> Speaker A>Tell us about any current upcoming projects that you're working on that people need to know about.

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> Logan Hufford>Well, I'm going to have a really boring answer because I don't have anything super specific regarding that. Um, to be honest, this is my project right now is, um, just getting on podcasts and just trying to shed some light on this. Um, you know, there are podcasts that talk about sexual addiction recovery. There are resources out there, but they're few and far between. And I'm going to tell you right now and again, this is not what I'm about to say is not necessarily for, it's not for christians, it's not for religious people, it's for humans.

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> Logan Hufford>Most men struggle with this on some level. They're not all hiring prostitutes, they're not all having affairs. But most men struggle with this issue on some level.

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> Logan Hufford>I mean, depending on what kind of numbers you look at and how you define struggle, it's anywhere from six to eight out of ten men. So that it's more than half and it's maybe three quarters or more. And yet, the amount of resources, the amount of podcasts that have really deep and intensive material on this pales in comparison to how big the problem is. And so right now, my project is just, you know, getting out there and shouting from the rooftops that, hey, there is a different way. There's a better way. I didn't think there was, but God showed that to me. You know, back in 2016, God showed that to me. And so, uh, if I can show this to one guy that, hey, there's a way out of that cave, then, you know, that's my mission right now.

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> Speaker A>Okay. They'll add your contact info so people can get in touch with you if they would like to.

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> Logan Hufford>Absolutely. So right now, to be honest, I mean, the only contact, again, I'm not here selling, you know, a book or a course or anything like that.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, I want to make myself. I am making myself available if somebody truly wants to contact. But that's not necessarily the purpose, right? Is to get people to hire me for anything. Um, but I will. I'll give you my.

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> Logan Hufford>My email if, um, people do want to, you know, contact myself, or again, if a woman wants to contact Carrie. Um, this is specifically an email that just goes to me and my wife.

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> Logan Hufford>Um, so you can put in the show notes, but it's prodigals info, all one word@creeksideak.com.

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> Logan Hufford>And I know it's kind of a mouthful, but again, I will make sure you have it so you can put it in the show notes, and folks can email us if they have a question or want to connect with group or, you know, possibly there's a group in their area.

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> Speaker A>All right, close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

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> Logan Hufford>Sure. Um, I wasn't planning on this, to be honest, but, you know, there is one piece that I want to put out there, and usually I'll share this as part of my story, you know, just kind of chronologically. But I did my best to try to not go into all the details for time's sake. There was one moment, I mentioned one area where when my wife gave me that ultimatum, that had never happened before. Nobody had ever dealt with me in that area before. And there's another moment like that that I just want to share really quickly. And to be honest, it applies to both pieces we've talked about, applies to finances as well, but it applies to life. So when I started going to some meetings, even though I wasn't sober yet, I didn't have healing yet, but I'd gone to some meetings. I met a man at a group called Celebrate Recovery, which is a. It's a faith based, um, twelve step group.

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> Logan Hufford>And I was still basically playing with it. I was playing with recovery. I was attending every now and then, but I wasn't really doing things differently. And I met this man, and he was the only guy in a group of, I don't know, maybe 20 guys that identified as a recovering sex addict. All the other guys were substance or anger or grief or various things, but nobody else said they struggle with sexual addiction. And he came up to me after the meeting. He said, hey, I'm really thankful you're here, but, um, I think you might need more. He's like, I needed more. That's when he told me about prodigals. And this is the man that ended up mentoring me. And I kind of kept him at arms length for a while.

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> Logan Hufford>And at one point, I even went up to him and I said, this is like a couple weeks later. I said, hey, so I would love to get together for coffee with you every now and again, you know, if you'd be willing to talk with me about this stuff. And in my mind, I was really putting myself out there. Like, I'm really trying, you know, I'm really. I'm really willing to do something here.

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> Logan Hufford>And he looked at me and this man who became my mentor, who became like a father to me, became like a grandpa to my kids, he is one of the most loving, most gracious, most giving men I've ever known. And he looked at me in the eyes and he said, Logan, if you want to get together for coffee every now and again, I don't have time for you. And that hurt.

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> Logan Hufford>Like, that was like a. He stabbed me, you know, is what it felt like. And I'm, like, offended. And then he quickly followed it up and he said, if you want to seriously attack this, I will work with you and I will help you, but it's not going to be by your rules. It's not going to be easy. We're not going to just get coffee every now and again. It's going to be hard work. You're going to hate it. Maybe you're going to hate me sometimes. And again, for the second time in my life, God put somebody in front of me that talked to me and dealt with me in a way that I'd never been dealt with before. And that's exactly what I needed because I was a narcissistic, sociopathic, you know, manipulative person and I needed that. And so, you know, as maybe that's kind of a weird final thought, but I just. I felt like it was appropriate because I think anyone, no matter what issue they're going through, whether it's maybe m maybe they need to work on their finances, maybe they need to work on anger. They need to work on their marriage. You know, who knows? There's going to be a situation where I need to, metaphorically speaking, stop trying to just get coffee every now and again. And I need to actually, like, do some hard freaking work. So I needed to hear that. Maybe somebody needs to hear that. Um, but I'll just leave that there.

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> Speaker A>Well said. Ladies and gentlemen. If you know of anybody that can use Logan or his wife's services or help reach out to him.

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> Speaker A>Follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible. If you have any guest or suggestion topics, see Jackson 102 is the place to send them jump on your favorite podcast app. Please give us a review. Hit that follow button. Thank you for listening and thank you for supporting the show. And Logan, thank you for joining us sharing your story.

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> Logan Hufford>Absolutely. Thank you so much.

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> Speaker A>For more information on the living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurvefball.com.

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> Speaker A>Until next time, stay focused on living the dream.

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> Logan Hufford>Dream.