Aug. 31, 2025
Bridging the Gap: Robert Marcus on Transforming from Doer to Leader
Send us a text In this thought-provoking episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we welcome leadership expert and author Robert Marcus, who shares his transformative journey from high-performing doer to impactful leader. Robert discusses his diverse career path, including his time in the Army and the lessons learned from his experiences in government contracting. He delves into the critical concept of "Crossing the Divide," emphasizing the essential shifts in mindset and skills needed for...
In this thought-provoking episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we welcome leadership expert and author Robert Marcus, who shares his transformative journey from high-performing doer to impactful leader. Robert discusses his diverse career path, including his time in the Army and the lessons learned from his experiences in government contracting. He delves into the critical concept of "Crossing the Divide," emphasizing the essential shifts in mindset and skills needed for effective leadership. Listeners will gain insights into the four divides—skills, relationship, responsibility, and identity—that can hinder or enhance a leader's effectiveness. Robert also opens up about personal challenges that shaped his perspective on leadership and the importance of fostering a supportive organizational culture. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that encourages self-reflection, growth, and the understanding that true leadership is about influencing others positively. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from Robert's wealth of knowledge and experience as he inspires us to embrace change and lead with purpose.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream podcast with Curveball. if you believe you can achieve.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that, teach, motivate and inspire.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Today I am joined by leadership expert and author of Crossing the Divide, Robert Marcus. Robert is here to discuss the overlooked but so essential aspect of Crossing the Divide. Going from a high performing doer to a leader. So we're going to be talking to Robert about that and everything that he's up to and going to be up to. So, Robert, thank you so much for joining me.
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> Robert Marcus>Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you having me here.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?
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> Robert Marcus>Sure. So, my name's Rob Marcus.
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> Robert Marcus>had a long journey in my career, starting in food service, into retail, and then ultimately joining the army. did five years there, deployed to Kosovo and Iraq for OIF one, came home and got out of the army, and started in my government contracting journey that I did for almost 20 years. ultimately, leaving that industry and starting our own business with Blue Stallion Solutions, which brings, us together today.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Okay, well, first of all, thank you for your service and, you know, thank you for all that that you're down in the Army. Do you want to talk about your army career real quick? Why you decided to join and stuff like that?
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> Robert Marcus>Yeah, funny, funny story. You know, I was in retail at the time. I had just graduated high school. I was promoted to manager, of some departments at a sporting goods store and working the retail life 50, 60 hours a week and trying to go to community college full time, all simultaneously.
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> Robert Marcus>And it was exhausting. and I made a joke to somebody one day that I was going to join the military for a vacation.
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> Robert Marcus>and after I said that, I kind of started thinking about it. So I went down and I started talking to some recruiters. And, you know, the army offered me, an interesting opportunity, becoming a special agent in counterintelligence, for them. And, it was interesting enough that I decided to go ahead and make the jump. you know, did that for five years. and it, you know, it's what propelled me, really into the government career that I had since, took me to a lot of different places I probably would have never been able to visit otherwise. a lot of very interesting experiences, getting to see, you know, what it's, what it's like outside of the United States and, and even one further outside of kind of the touristy areas that most people go to see, and how the world really works outside of those locations and how people actually live is very, very eye opening.
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> Robert Marcus>and I think inspired a lot of humility, and pride, in me for not taking for granted know what we have here as Americans in the United States, which I think that unfortunately we often do, just simply because we don't get to see those parts of the world where there's a lot of struggle, both economically, politically and in their livelihoods. So, I'm appreciative of those experiences and I think that that time in my life made a huge impression on me and how I choose to live.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Absolutely.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, talk about how you decided to get into your role as a leadership expert.
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> Robert Marcus>In all the industries that I've been a part of over the years, I've had, a common observation, and that is that we have a culture that promotes people for their individual contributions and capabilities, but we're promoting them into roles that, you know, in supervision, management and leadership that deal with other human beings. And most of these folks have not been taught or trained in that. and it leads to what I have witnessed over the years, a lot of conflict in, in the workplace and the organizational culture. so over the years I was focused more on this idea that how you perform is what gets you promoted, and excel in the ranks and what have you.
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> Robert Marcus>and I spent a lot of years focused on that, up until 2023 when I ran into some personal tragedy. my mom suddenly went into the hospital, in what amounted to a six week fight against two stage four cancers that we never knew that she had. she ultimately lost that battle. But during that time I made the choice, to stay and work from the hospital, and be there with her in that fight.
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> Robert Marcus>and that caused I think some conflict in the workplace.
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> Robert Marcus>once she passed. eight days later I got a frantic phone call from my son who was at his mom's house, that his sister wasn't breathing. So, eight days after my mom passed away, my daughter, surprisingly passed away as well at 14 years old.
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> Robert Marcus>That hit those circumstances, really forced me into a very deep self reflection about really everything but you know, life, religion, work balance, you know, what do, what do we, what's important in, in the world, what's important in our, in our lives. and then coming back to work, as an executive in an organization and a defense contractor and running into some conflict there that pushed me even a step further in thinking about if I'm dealing with these things as a result of this episode that I had gone through in my life.
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> Robert Marcus>M. What are employees.
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> Robert Marcus>I'm an executive going through this. What are employees really dealing with in the workplace today from a leadership perspective? And when you go into this type of deep reflection, really, really digging deep within to look at yourself in the mirror and question and try to figure out what the world is really all about, you really start to pay attention to things that. That maybe were you didn't pay much attention to before, like on social media and LinkedIn and the way people are posting the things that they're saying. And LinkedIn, being a professional, place and arena for professional conversation, I started paying a lot of attention to that and realizing that there's a problem. Problem in the way we lead today. There's a problem in how we interact with employees and organizations and the goals that everybody is trying to meet together.
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> Robert Marcus>and I made the decision that I wanted to be part of fixing that, at least as much as I can from here in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
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> Robert Marcus>so I created Blue Stallion. I went and did something I had wanted to do for years, which was getting certified through John Maxwell leadership.
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> Robert Marcus>I had read his books. I was a student of his teachings for many years, and no company would send me throughout my career, so I made the decision to do it myself. And after having that experience, I decided to found our company, Blue Stallion Solutions. and, you know, and then the book came, and then, you know, building our training programs and leading in the community here, where we have worked with some amazing, partners in the nonprofit, arena here locally, doing training for them and helping them get their message out, through our facilities here.
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> Robert Marcus>And it's just. It's been an amazing journey so far, and I think we're just scratching the surface.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, congratulations on your new book. What, what core message do you hope that people take away from your new book?
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> Robert Marcus>Yeah, so I think the core message is you can't lead like a doer, you know, and you can't become a leader until you're willing to leave the old you behind. And if you're already a leader, you know, over time, based on our. Our environments and. And life and everything, sometimes we stray far away from the tree and we don't even realize it. And so crossing the divide, I think is. Is written and put together in such a way that no matter who reads it, they can start to see themselves, no matter what level they're at, but it's really focused on looking in the mirror as a leader and helping you get back to where we should be. And if you aren't there yet, getting you into the right mindset with the right ideas of what leadership is and the skills and the art form that you combine to lead well. so, you know, most books skip over the kind of the identity shift that happens when you stop doing the work and you start leading the people who are doing it. and that's the gap that we really wanted to close.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Or can you walk us through the four divides that you have identified, such as skills, relationship, responsibility, and identity, and talk about why this, why they are so crucial?
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> Robert Marcus>Yes, sir, Absolutely. I'd love to.
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> Robert Marcus>Ah. You know, these four divides kind of present themselves almost. Almost like fault lines, right? It's. It's kind of the.
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> Robert Marcus>It's the point of friction where if. If you don't address them, they can cause a lot of problems, in the future and they only get worse over time.
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> Robert Marcus>So you mentioned them. There's really four divides that we've identified. The first is the skills divide, which is essentially what got you here, won't necessarily get you there, and a lot of people don't think about that. But you got promoted for what you could do, but now you've got to teach, you've got to develop others, you've got to delegate, right? And that's a completely different skill set than doing so.
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> Robert Marcus>divide number two, the relationship divide. You can't lead people the same way that you worked with them.
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> Robert Marcus>You used to be one of the team, but now you're the person that people are venting about at the water cooler, right? So, it's a totally different perspective, and you've got to shift how you build trust and influence and have those relationships with even those same people as you did before.
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> Robert Marcus>And then the responsibility divide.
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> Robert Marcus>You've now entered an arena where you're accountable for results that you don't directly create.
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> Robert Marcus>So if we think about that for a minute, you were promoted based on what you were able to do, but now you've gotten promoted into this new realm where it's not about what you do, it's about how you lead other people who do it. So you're accountable for what they're doing, but you're not the one actually doing that.
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> Robert Marcus>That is a huge, huge mindset shift. And then finally, the fourth, which is very crucial, the identity divide, and it goes back to understanding you're no longer just responsible for yourself, you're responsible for others. And when you're responsible for others, it's not just about taking care of them, but it's about understanding that they're watching you, that they feed off of you, that they follow you in the things that you do and the things that you say, and maybe even more crucially, the way you do and say them. And that sets the tone for the culture of your team and potentially your whole organization.
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> Robert Marcus>So these four divides are critical for anyone to look out, but especially when you're looking at making that shift from individual contributor to leader, to understand that you're stepping into a space that's totally different than you likely had ever been. And if you focus on these four divides as the platform and the premise for your journey and learn the skills and the art that goes into foundational leadership, servant leadership, along with these four divides, you will be so much more successful.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, you know, a lot of leaders struggle with burnout. So speak about burnout and talk about how it showed up in your journey and. And is resilience and leadership, you know, as it relates to burnout.
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> Robert Marcus>Yeah, I. I think I hit burnout before I even knew what it was.
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> Robert Marcus>it's you. You look at yourself, and you. You feel and. And seem successful on paper, but you're grinding yourself into the ground.
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> Robert Marcus>And this is where we get addicted to performance, because that's what we're conditioned for.
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> Robert Marcus>And, of course, I think that that's somewhat natural when you look at the employer employee relationship, because the typical mindset of an employer is that they want employees who are high performers.
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> Robert Marcus>The issue comes when we lose kind of the human side of things, and people start getting treated more like objects than people?
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> Robert Marcus>And so one of the things that we focus on trying to adjust is this thought concept that we've gotten into as organizations that our employees are like cheap skateboards that you pick up at the thrift store, and you don't replace anything on it. You don't take care of it. You just ride it as hard as you can. And when it's busted down and broken, doesn't work anymore, you toss it in the dumpster. You just go get a new one.
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> Robert Marcus>so when you look at what's happening in the world today, how crazy is it that a pandemic like what we had with COVID was almost a release valve for employees across the nation, that even though they were basically locked in their house, they were happier to be locked in their house and doing work from home than going into the office where Many of them felt miserable. If you're living half of your life at your place of employment, you're, and you're miserable. How do you, how do you balance that?
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> Robert Marcus>I think that employees typically, look, they understand that companies are trying to make money. They understand that their employers are in business to make money. You don't get into business to not make money. Right.
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> Robert Marcus>Even nonprofit organizations have to make money to survive. But I think when we stop reminding our employees of that so much and start paying attention to the work life balance and growing our employees and setting them up for success and pouring into them so that they feel the growth and getting better, that we can achieve so much more results than what we do this way. It might, if we're being honest, just take a little bit more time.
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> Robert Marcus>But isn't that time worth it if you get so much more?
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> Robert Marcus>So burnout showed me that leadership without boundaries is not leadership. It's really martyrdom.
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> Robert Marcus>What are you getting back if you're pouring, pouring, pouring, pouring, pouring into your work and your employer, your blood, your sweat, your tears even, and all you're getting is, is that same salary and no time back.
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> Robert Marcus>Right. So these days, you know, I, I ask every leader that I talk to, are you building something that lasts or are you just surviving? What's next?
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> Robert Marcus>What intentional choices are you making? Are you working to work or are you trying to build something that puts you and your family in a position where you can enjoy life? So it's a huge issue.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's talk about another huge issue. What is the biggest misconception that new leaders face when they step into a new leadership role?
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>And how can they overcome it?
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> Robert Marcus>Yeah, I think it all rolls into this one, one core thing, that being good at your job doesn't mean that you're ready to lead others doing it.
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> Robert Marcus>So if you're, if you're stepping into a promotion, you have to understand that that should mean that you're ready to basically learn all over again.
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> Robert Marcus>And that sets you, if you go in with that perception, it sets you up with a growth mindset. And if you go in with a growth mindset where you understand that you don't know everything, that maybe you were great at doing what you did, but now you've got to step back and help coach and empower others to, to get great at what you did, like you, and hopefully many, many more of them.
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> Robert Marcus>I, I think that that's the, the, the key point, but I think the biggest myth is leadership. People think it's just an Extension of high performance. And it's so not, it's so much more than that.
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> Robert Marcus>you know, most, most new leaders think about, oh, I'll just do more of what made me successful, not understanding that it's an entirely different game.
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> Robert Marcus>So going from me to we is, is hard for, for many people.
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> Robert Marcus>From output to ownership, people get stuck. So how do you overcome that? You overcome it by getting coached, right. You need feedback, but most of all because nothing else works if you're not overcoming it by getting honest with yourself.
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> Robert Marcus>And as part of our teachings, we've integrated accountability and reflection as core principles. Because human beings are naturally bad at self accountability, especially, holding others accountable is uncomfortable for us as well.
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> Robert Marcus>But reflection is what grounds you. And if you take the time to reflect on your actions, your day, how things went, how you're leading, how others are seeing you, and really, really think about that, and if something doesn't seem right or the way that, that it needs to be, that reflection helps you make that shift that you're going to do. If I'm going to do one thing better tomorrow, what's one thing I didn't do well today that I can improve on?
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> Robert Marcus>And that helps a lot for, for people's growth.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, if you could give one piece of advice to somebody stuck in doer mode, what would that piece of advice be?
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> Robert Marcus>Oh, that's a great question.
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> Robert Marcus>I think people stuck in doer mode really need to know that they're not, they're not stuck as people. Right?
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> Robert Marcus>They're more scared to let go and scared to cross that divide than, than they are truly stuck.
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> Robert Marcus>Because it can be fixed.
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> Robert Marcus>But you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. The next level isn't going to meet you in that same comfort zone that you had as an individual contributor or high performance doer.
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> Robert Marcus>So get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And if you need help, be honest with yourself and get the help.
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> Robert Marcus>Don't wait for permission.
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> Robert Marcus>Don't even wait for your employer to maybe or maybe not get on board with giving you those opportunities for help and growth. Because at the end of the day, you own your career, not your employer. The employers today know that there's a good chance that these employees are not going to be with them more than a couple of years. Now that's something that we would love to help change because that's not great either. But that is the reality.
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> Robert Marcus>So don't wait for somebody else to own your growth and your path.
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> Robert Marcus>Take control of it and do it yourself.
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> Robert Marcus>Stop asking what needs to get done and start asking what needs to get built.
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> Robert Marcus>And, I would tell you that what needs to get built usually is the people, the culture, and the clarity. And that's all about leadership.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, let's talk about how, where do you see or how do you see leadership development evolving in the next five to 10 years, especially with a rapidly changing workplace?
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> Robert Marcus>that's interesting. it's, it's so crazy that, you know, everything that we see with, with the rapid advancement of the technology, even if you think about two years ago, we still kind of thought AI was, was far out, that, that it wasn't coming as fast. And we, we definitely, I, I mean, some experts did, but most of us didn't even think if, if you go back to two years ago, most of us didn't even think that we would be using things like AI every day so quickly.
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> Robert Marcus>Our kids are using it for homework.
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> Robert Marcus>Right. So things have absolutely changed. Yet at the same time, as humans, as employees, I think we're almost taking a step back.
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> Robert Marcus>I think that we want less theory and more human. More trust, more authenticity.
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> Robert Marcus>So I think that the landscape, the leadership landscape of the future is as this movement from a human base really starts to take hold, getting employers and organizations to understand that people need to feel appreciated, people need to feel that they're invested in, and people need to feel growth in order to keep going.
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> Robert Marcus>I think that on that side of the house, we're seeing it shift back to the human side of leadership.
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> Robert Marcus>Vice more of a kind of a machine or robot form of leadership.
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> Robert Marcus>At the same time, we see these technological tools being used. Ah. And, and they're really meant for just that a lot of people are worried about, you know, what, how these machines will, will replace the doers and, and all of that. And there are industries obviously, where, where that's more likely to happen quicker than others. But at the end of the day, when it comes to leading employees, I think we're, we're, we're going back to roots of leadership while we embrace the use of these more advanced tools to get the job done more quickly, more efficiently.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Well, tell the listeners about any upcoming projects or current projects that you're working on that people need to be aware of.
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> Robert Marcus>Oh, we've got so much going on. Thank you for that. so we're doing the official, Crossing the Divide in person launch here locally in Fredericksburg next Thursday, the 21st.
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> Robert Marcus>the book is available on Amazon now. We're getting some really exciting reviews from people. I think it's the best 10 or $14 folks can make in themselves right now to really set themselves into, into a growth mindset and start their journey the way they would like to see it. We are developing more and more training programs based off of these concepts that we're going to be opening up to people.
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> Robert Marcus>We're looking right now we're about to release a new landing page for founding partners to get in on our new training at a very steep discount.
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> Robert Marcus>so we're going to be taking a select number of founding partners that are going to enjoy the benefit of not only the monetary discount but really getting in and getting involved in how we shape our new curriculums going forward. and at the same time on all of our social media channels if, if, if people look for us on you know, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok. We just kicked off this morning what we're calling our leadership stampede. So, so we've put together 365 short videos. One will be posted at 6am every day.
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> Robert Marcus>And this is all free for people where they can come. I shoot out a quote, a leadership quote, I give a short story and then I give a coaching reflection, prompt so folks can every day get their journal, bring a fresh notebook every day for an entire year, sit down. And if they put in the work with these quotes and these reflection prompts I guarantee you they will grow. and what a better way to start their day than sitting here and doing some work on themselves and maybe even starting the day with growth minded conversations with their colleagues when it comes to leadership. So we've got a lot of stuff going on. I would just encourage folks to find us, follow us and, and we have so much more that we're working on. Blue Stallion is truly meant to be a movement to forge growth, restore leadership and achieve unbridled results. so you know it's, it's more than just being a company.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>So how can people follow you, keep up with everything that you're up to.
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> Robert Marcus>So www.bluestallionsolutions.com is our main website. If they search Blue Stallion solutions on any of the social channels, they will find us with our Blue Stallion logo. you know like subscribe, comment, follow all of those cool social media things. and I promise they will be up to date at every step and every turn.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>We'll close this out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on or any final thoughts you have for the listeners.
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> Robert Marcus>I think we've had a great conversation and again, I really appreciate you having me and given this platform to share.
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> Robert Marcus>I've listened to a number of your episodes and I love the podcast. I would just, I think, leave people with this.
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> Robert Marcus>Leadership in the Future is not going to be taught in the boardroom. It's going to be modeled in real time.
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> Robert Marcus>So it's incumbent on all of us to be better leaders.
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> Robert Marcus>And when I talk to somebody new, my question to them is not if they're a leader or not, because leadership is about influence. And everybody influences somebody every day.
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> Robert Marcus>So everybody, everybody is a leader.
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> Robert Marcus>The question is, what kind of leader are you going to be?
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>ladies and gentlemen, check out Blue Stallion Solutions.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>Follow Rate Review Share this episode to as many people as possible, especially all you leaders out there. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform and visit www.craveball337.com for more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Rob, thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for joining me.
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> Robert Marcus>Thank you as well.
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> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball)>For more information on the Living the Dream with curveball podcast, visit www.craveball ah337.com until, next time, keep Living the dream.
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