Jan. 5, 2025
Exploring Serialized Fiction & Ghostwriting with Zola Fontaine
Zola Fontaine, a ghostwriter known for her work in serialized fiction, discusses the challenges and rewards of writing for others while striving for her own creative fulfillment. She shares insights on the financial realities of the ghostwriting industry, the importance of mentorship, and her exciting projects, including a unique urban fantasy romance.
• Zola's background as a ghostwriter and her work in serialized fiction apps
• The intricate business model behind serialized fiction and monetization strategies
• The financial aspects of being a writer today and the need for multiple income sources
• The transition to independent publishing and personal creative fulfillment
• Current projects, including an urban fantasy romance featuring vampires and political intrigue
• The value of mentorship in the writing industry and opportunities for diverse voices
00:17 - Serialized Fiction Writing Industry Insights
13:11 - Navigating the Writing Industry Challenges
20:01 - Creative Writing in Screenwriting and Fantasy
26:35 - Fantasy Writing and ARC Reader Discussion
34:11 - Industry Mentorship and TikTok Trends
WEBVTT
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hey y'all.
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Hey, you are watching and listening to lakes between the lines and, of course, I am your host, lex um.
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So let's go ahead and get into these trigger warnings so we can go ahead.
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I'm so excited about the guests that we have today.
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So there may or may not be adult content discussed.
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There may or may not be a little bit of cussing, because, you know, when I get excited or I feel some type of way about things, they just start coming as they may.
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Whatever come up, come out.
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So take this as your trigger warning.
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There may or may not be adult sexual content described or, as we like to call smut, talked about.
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So if you are still rolling with us at this point, we're gonna go ahead and introduce our co-host.
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I'm going to let her introduce herself.
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Hello, hello, thank you for having me, lex.
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My name is Zola Fontaine, not my real name, that's my ghostwriting name.
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I am a writer.
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I write screenplays, stories, novels.
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Writer.
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I write screenplays, stories, novels.
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I live in Louisiana.
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I'm very Black and very Southern and also very happy to be here today.
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I don't have any work published under my actual legal name, for reasons that you know you mentioned in the trigger warning.
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Some of this stuff is very smutty.
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It's very adult.
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I'll tell you about some of the craziest stuff that I've, uh, had the pleasure of writing.
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But if you peruse through any type of serialized fiction app the big ones out there, um, like good novel, or um kiss good novel, um, re-addict, things like that uh, you might see some of my work out there.
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so now is it under it's, under zola?
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That's where we can find it no, no, no, no.
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I'm not telling you to go find it, I'm just telling you that it's there because, because some of it is so, so crazy.
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But you know, take it.
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If you go to one of those apps to read a book, you'll be supporting another author.
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So so are you writing for these authors and they making money from it?
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so the way that it works, you have like different.
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I need to be careful about what I say, because with these companies you might actually have to bleep out their names that I'm thinking about.
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Well, no, because you know what we just mentioned.
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So it's actually advertising for them, because we're just listening to some of them that you can find people writing on, so we haven't gone or talked about them or anything like that.
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It's specific.
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It's specific.
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You're right.
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You're right.
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Hold on.
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What was the question?
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I forgot the question.
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It's the ADHD kicking in.
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Shoot.
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You just made me forgot because I got nervous for a second like shit.
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I don't want nobody to sue me.
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I'm just starting to get up.
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No, I'm joking.
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What was the question?
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I'm nervous myself, oh.
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I got it now.
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Have you been writing?
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Are you?
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Have you been writing for anybody on the?
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Are you writing for yourself or are you writing for um other authors on these platforms, or can we find your work on these platforms?
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agreement with these companies.
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It's a little bit different than just being like you know, there's somebody who wants to write a book but they can't write and they hire me.
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That does exist, but not in my case.
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So to explain a little bit, these serialized fiction apps, they work by monetizing your content.
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I think on some of the apps you can go in and purchase tokens and then it allows you to read up to a certain limit and you purchase more and you have a limit with what you can read for free.
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So you buy the tokens and it allows you to read, I guess, as much as you want to pay for hold on, because that's how a couple of them got me um, and it depends on how long the chapter or the little chapter is.
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It takes so many, like if I buy 500 coins but then one chapter costs like 125 coins yeah, and so they put it in that format, I guess to lure readers in and just to keep the audience hooked.
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But in my case, the reason why you can go to these different apps and you can they can promise you like a new chapter every day at 12 pm is because you have people like me behind the scenes just churning out that content, like as quickly and as often as possible.
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So the way I understand it, the model that they have, they have and this may not be true for everybody, but I know in at least in some of the cases for the companies that I've done work for you either come in as an established author and you split like say, there's a really successful person who likes to write romance novels They've been on the New York Times bestseller list.
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Well, they'll license out their content to the company and then they break it down into like bite-sized chapters for a different audience, for an audience that you know, for a person you like to read, right, but like for somebody who's like they they're not the people that would go to a bookstore or a library and check out a book because they have it on their mobile phone.
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It's like okay, let me get into this let me read about chapter, chapter by chapter.
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So you'll have established authors who do that, and then you have other people who might start out on platforms like uh, wattpad, just writing, you know to, to get their story out there do.
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Do you have to pay for Wattpad?
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I just heard about Wattpad when I joined BookTok.
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I had never heard of Wattpad before.
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I've never used Wattpad.
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I've had some friends that have used it, but it's a good place.
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To my understanding, don't quote me on it.
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Well, you're going to be quoting me on it anyway, because I'm going to be on this but it's like a good.
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I think when it started out it was a good platform for people that couldn't go the traditional publishing route, so it gave them a way to build an audience and write what they pretty much want without restriction.
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So that's the second case where they'll have somebody who has an established online audience or, like they have a completed novel and they'll license their book out to that company.
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And in the third case, let's see how can I say this without breaking my okay, so preexisting material that they want to have adapted for a Western audience.
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Okay.
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So it goes through the process of localization.
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So basically, what happens in this case?
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You'll have like a very successful book in another country maybe China, maybe India is written in that native language.
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Well, they'll get the rights to that book.
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They'll translate it into English and then somebody can come in and do they do what they call localization.
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So you basically take that, take all the cultural nuances that exist in that book and you adapt it for the American audience so they can consume it.
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So it's like recycling material.
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And then I know I said that was the last one, but the last one is that, okay, they'll have like an outline or story idea, a general vague idea, and you basically just take that material and make it come to life.
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But you do it within the confines of what they actually want for that platform.
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So they would say to me okay, we want a story about a woman who is secretly a princess, but she doesn't know, and she falls in love with a billionaire werewolf alpha.
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We need to make that love story happen.
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We need to make it happen in this amount of chapters it's usually around 80 or so and we need to make sure that it follows all of the, the important and expected beats that our audience wants.
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And then we have to have cliff hangers for every chapter, because if we don't have those good cliffhangers, the people are not going to pay for the next episode.
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So I've worked like that in a capacity you have some that are very rigid in what they want and how they want it to be done, rigid in what they want and how they want it to be done, and then others where you know you're pretty much given a lot of creative freedom to do what you want I'm gonna get in your business a little bit.
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Does that pay well?
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it pays.
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Now what I will say?
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Like, okay, um, when I there's one company that I was working for and I'm glad you asked that because right now the industry writing industry as a whole not just like with fiction and on apps, but like in television it's experiencing some challenges right now, some challenges right now.
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So a lot of times you'll have writers that are writing in different medium, medium, medium.
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I should know what the pool for that is but so, okay, like, I've worked with people that have worked on Netflix, tv shows, movies, just like all in the industry, but these are like television and film writers, but they're doing like the work that I'm telling you about right now.
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They're doing that as well.
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So I would say it's pretty decent pay, depending on what the company is, because you'll have some that come in and try to low-ball you.
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But if you're working for a company that has a lot of other established writers in it, they'll give you pay that's comparable to what they would be making or what they would be making outside of that app.
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The downside is that a lot of times it is contract work, so you're classified as a 1099 employee, meaning you don't get insurance, Okay, and then your taxes are not automatically taken out.
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So you got to pay them on your own.
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Yeah, you got to pay them, or or I think they call it a.
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What is it?
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I'm having a brain fart right now, but a lot of times like a loan company, so basic, not an actual loan company.
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But they set it up so that your taxes are taken care of upfront, so that when April rolls around you don't be hit with no big ass tax bill.
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You be like, well, you know, damn bitch, I barely got any money in the first place and y'all trying to take the little bit that you get.
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So now what I would say for somebody who is like, if you want to get experience as a writer doing that, I'm not going to encourage you to not do it, but I will say that it might be more lucrative to just like do the stuff on your own because it's a good, it's good training for, like, you want to meet your dead minds and, um, you just want to have an idea of what, like, the marketing side of it is, but you may not be creatively fulfilled with it.
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And I think the reason that a lot of people write in the first place is because they have a story inside of them that wants to be told.
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You're not going to be able to tell that story doing that for other people, because you have to follow all of their guidelines.
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That's a lot of guidelines to to go by right.
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So you, you, sometimes you might have the creative freedom, especially if you're you know, you've been doing it for a while and you're more established and you have to prove that you know you can write a hit, you can lure the audience in and they'll continue to pay for it.
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But otherwise, you know, baby, just a worker bee, have you?
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tried the route of um of indie publishing, or have you just strictly stuck, or are you in the process of indie publishing anything or any of your work?
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I am actually.
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So one of the lessons that I've learned, especially in the past year, with, like I said, everything in the industry kind of getting shaken up to the point where you mentioned the people that work in television they do these jobs as well and for people who are writing in Hollywood that you know how do I say this, so I'm trying not to like step on any toes, but it's hard out here for everybody and what I've learned with the way that I've had to pretty much For one company in particular, I had such a stressful experience with it that I'm like I'm thinking, okay, I'm giving my all, I'm writing anywhere from 25,000 to 50,000 words in a week, in a week.
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Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am.
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So you put that into perspective.
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Like, let's say, two weeks of writing like that, that's a full time, that's like a full novel.
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Yes, and the whole time I was writing like this, stressed out, you know, my skin breaking out.
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I'm wanting to pull out my hair.
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I'm like, damn, so I could have been.
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I could have been working on my own stuff and writing my own stuff and writing what I want to write at my own pace.
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Wait.
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So you write in like that this wasn't, this was the ghost writing, without the stipulations and the guidelines.
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It was one of them.
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Like I said, I've worked for a few, so in that particular instance, with them wanting us to write like that, you have to be able to turn those chapters out.
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You have to do it because of that.
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If you have some heifer in middle america that's on an app scrolling and she, you know, washing her dishes, and she wants to.
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She want to know what happened with the alpha and the princess girl that don't know she'll print.
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Are they going hunch or not?
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You have to turn out that content so that they keep paying for it.
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That's why the amount of words expected and the amount of chapters you expected to write is so high.
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Going back to your question was like damn, I'm doing this for them and they're making like, like I said, they pay comparable to what you would get, like you know industry standards for writing, but the money that they make hold on because I'm I'm like writing illiterateate.
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So what's the pricing for industry standard?
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Is it enough to work?
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Well, we already know the economy is a little off right now.
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So is it enough to sustain a household, or do you have to have like a second job to write?
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You don't okay as a single person and depending on your cost of living, the area that you, if you live in a high cost of living area, you're gonna need more money.
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But if you live, like in the in the south um, depending on where you live in the south, it could be okay.
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So the way that it works with me and other writers is you don't do just like one writing job, like at one point I had like multiple contracts so I did make a decent living with it.
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Usually it goes by.
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Cents per word is what I've dealt with.
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Cents per word is Is what I've dealt with.
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So you can do anywhere from like Five to ten cents per word.
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I think so like they were paying it at one place, they were paying around.
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What was it?
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It was like forty, five hundred500 a month.
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And it's from one contract.
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Yeah, from one contract.
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Oh, that's not bad, especially if you have multiple contracts, paying that, at least that on top of other contracts.
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Mine have been anywhere from $3,600 to like $4,600.
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So somewhere in that range.
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So, like I said, if you're a single person, don't expect to be able to hundred.
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So somewhere in that range.
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So, like I said, if you're a single person, don't expect to be able to raise a family with that.
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Or, if you like, in a high like that's the problem because, like in places like los angeles, and that's that's poverty, that them is poverty wages.
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So that's why, like I said, you see, like a lot of people that work in television them as poverty wages.
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So that's why, like I said, you see, like a lot of people that work in television these jobs as well.
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But to answer your question, I know I'm getting long-winded, but to answer your question, I thought about all the work that I was put into it.
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I was like, damn, I could be writing my own stuff.
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So, yeah, I am working on a few manuscripts right now, actually in the process of like transforming some of the screenplays, the television screenplays that I've written, into novel format, because I do think I have really good ideas and you know, the idea is to have one of my screenplays, or multiple screenplays of mine, produced and then that way I can own all of my intellectual property so we're gonna hold that thought just for a second.
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We're gonna take a quick commercial break and then we will be right back where we can dive into um what you're working on, what kind of genres, what kind of tropes, and get a little bit more in your business.
00:19:07.090 --> 00:19:16.498
So we will be right back out, okay, and then we just wait a second and then we can dive um.
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So now I'll just go in and actually um, like the work, the manuscripts that you're working on, have you ever sent them out to like any producers or anything to get picked up?
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And then I'll ask you um, what's like the actual genres, or can you give us a little bit like a, an epilogue or a little blurb?
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So that's why I go okay, I'm gonna say um, okay, we are back.
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Thank you for hanging in there with us, and then we'll roll into it.
00:19:48.730 --> 00:20:01.298
Okay, so let me know when you're ready I was ready all right, you guys, we are back to get back up in our business.
00:20:01.298 --> 00:20:14.922
So the the question that I wanted to ask was um you were telling us about your manuscripts, um that you have been working on, have you sent any of those out to producers for your screenplays?
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Have you sent any of those out to any like production companies or any producers, or what are we planning on doing with those?
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so I have.
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I actually was fortunate enough to um get a mentor in Hollywood who taught me a lot about it.
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I usually send my samples to him and he provides feedback.
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It's like with screenplays.
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It's going to be a little bit different than novels.
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When I get my manuscript written or completed and edited, I'm going to or completed rather and edited, I'm going to take the self-publishing route.
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But as far as my scripts and screenplays, a lot of times they recommend doing the contest route.
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But in all honesty, he just told me you know the opportunity is going to come, just have to get it into the right hands.
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So he said just make sure that when your opportunity does come, that you have like your really good samples ready to go, and I'm pretty sure I do.
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I got about like 10 going right now, just various different screenplays and then my manuscript, of course.
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Um, this are they large?
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enough to be novellas, or actual or um actual books, or how or what do you plan on doing?
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when you say you have 10 of them I have 10 screenplays, okay, but I want to take those screenplays and, and you know, switch them into like a novel format, a novella at the the least.
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But, like I have, I have so freaking many 10 ready to go.
00:22:06.491 --> 00:22:14.106
But the the actual manuscript that I'm working on right now is how would I describe this?
00:22:14.106 --> 00:22:19.076
Okay, so it's kind of like in the industry they call it a comp.
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I don't know if they do that like when you with you guys, but a comp is where you say this book is x meets y.
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So, like mine, I was gonna say I ain't never heard it okay so I, I and I, I don't like to do like the whole comparison thing, but you do it so that the audience can you know, the audience kind of knows what they're getting into.
00:22:43.166 --> 00:22:56.590
So like I'm writing one right now that I think is like it's like it's like true blood meets scandal, ooh, so, oh, tell us about hold on.
00:22:56.672 --> 00:22:57.766
Tell us about that Cause.
00:22:57.766 --> 00:23:00.855
First of all, I love true blood and I love scandal.
00:23:00.855 --> 00:23:02.296
How do you mesh the two All?
00:23:02.982 --> 00:23:03.486
right, let me.
00:23:03.486 --> 00:23:10.294
Let me read you my little synopsis I got on my website, which I'm going to give y'all my website at the end of this this conversation.
00:23:10.294 --> 00:23:18.430
So let me see, johnny, I need to put on my little professional voice however, we're gonna take it, however you give it okay.
00:23:18.871 --> 00:23:27.194
Amara thompson, a small town girl with a unique gift for uncovering truths, moves to new orleans for a fresh start and a new pr job.
00:23:27.194 --> 00:23:35.718
Her first day she's thrust into the glittering world of New Orleans politics at a gala for mayoral candidate Nichelle Fontenot.
00:23:35.718 --> 00:23:42.176
But Amara quickly realizes she's stepped into a world far more complex and dangerous than she imagined.
00:23:42.176 --> 00:23:49.017
Nichelle is not just a charismatic politician, but a powerful vampire hiding in plain sight.
00:23:49.017 --> 00:24:00.855
As Amara grapples with her growing attraction to Nichelle and the dark secrets of New Orleans' supernatural underbelly, she discovers her own abilities may be more extraordinary than she ever knew.
00:24:00.855 --> 00:24:11.326
Caught between vampire politics, ancient societies and her own burgeoning powers, amara must navigate a city where nothing is as it seems and everyone has hidden agendas.
00:24:11.326 --> 00:24:19.468
Can she uncover the truth about michelle, new orleans and herself before she's in too deep her?
00:24:21.691 --> 00:24:27.259
listen, one thing about me is I'm gonna beg.
00:24:27.259 --> 00:24:29.902
Okay, I ain't too proud to beg.
00:24:29.902 --> 00:24:35.755
Can I like is that already written or is there what we can, because I would pay for this shit right here?
00:24:35.755 --> 00:24:41.096
I would pay for it, like is is this out already or is this one of the things that you're working on?
00:24:41.096 --> 00:24:42.038
This is one of the.
00:24:42.204 --> 00:24:43.548
I'm editing it right now.
00:24:43.548 --> 00:24:50.123
You know I'm an artist and I'm sensitive about my shit, so I gotta get it.
00:24:50.123 --> 00:24:53.911
So this one falls into the category of like urban fantasy romance.
00:24:55.727 --> 00:24:58.010
And then did I hear that is is this a?
00:24:58.050 --> 00:24:58.291
queer.
00:24:58.291 --> 00:25:07.016
It's like okay, it's gonna be FMF like threesomes.
00:25:07.016 --> 00:25:07.920
You know that.
00:25:09.347 --> 00:25:11.010
This is my type of shit.
00:25:11.351 --> 00:25:14.217
Wait a minute not an actual now.
00:25:14.217 --> 00:25:16.890
Now I can give you like a little spoiler.
00:25:16.910 --> 00:25:30.900
There's like I have to tell you like off camera, what inspired the, the actual story let me find out you out here, because I like to ask people are these like real life experiences?
00:25:31.204 --> 00:25:32.828
no, it was a dream.
00:25:32.828 --> 00:25:38.904
It was a dream, so, and the dream was like, I'll go ahead and tell you that.
00:25:38.904 --> 00:25:54.498
So the dream was like it was your, your presidential uh, candidate, and then Usher, so you have a politician and a senator.
00:25:54.498 --> 00:25:54.884
Wait, which?
00:25:55.386 --> 00:25:56.911
presidential candidate Kamala.
00:26:00.049 --> 00:26:03.707
So Kamala is an inspiration for Michelle, but she's a vampire.
00:26:03.707 --> 00:26:08.834
And then this guy comes in and he's going to seduce Amara.
00:26:08.834 --> 00:26:24.294
He's like Usher, so it's like Kamala and Usher fighting for it sounds crazy, but a lot of times my inspirations for my stories and my books and my screenplays are just some crazy dreams that I had Another one.
00:26:24.294 --> 00:26:26.678
Let me read you this one.
00:26:26.678 --> 00:26:27.246
Hold on.
00:26:28.048 --> 00:26:30.914
I'm fucking weak right now so.
00:26:30.934 --> 00:26:32.117
So let me tell you about this one.
00:26:32.117 --> 00:26:34.509
So I'm gonna give you.
00:26:34.509 --> 00:26:36.653
This is the synopsis of the.
00:26:36.653 --> 00:26:45.636
It's like a fantasy, alternate fiction, and this one is called it's like why, but it's the adventures of sinjata of the south.
00:26:45.636 --> 00:26:51.662
So this is somebody else, and john is a teenager that has spiritual abilities.
00:26:51.662 --> 00:26:54.931
She sees and feel things that others can't.
00:26:54.931 --> 00:26:58.319
So she and her best friend go on this trip.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:14.188
Uh, it's the year's 1876 and it's like an alternate history where the united states civil war didn't turn out the way civil war didn't turn out the way that it did.
00:27:14.188 --> 00:27:18.174
It's also in a world where, like the, the veil between the spiritual and the material world has been lifted.
00:27:18.174 --> 00:27:37.133
So you see, like a lot of weird stuff, um, and they have this, uh companion who is an imp, and the inspiration for that was like this really weird dream that I had a few years back, where me and Beyonce what is with you?
00:27:37.173 --> 00:27:38.896
and these damn stars, these?
00:27:38.936 --> 00:27:43.192
celebrities, I'm just a consumer of pop culture.
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