Jan. 5, 2026

Winning Requires Waiting: How to Trust God's Timing

Winning Requires Waiting: How to Trust God's Timing
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In this episode, Pastor Jeff Little and Pastor Mark Francey dive deep into the process behind every leader’s breakthrough—from the decades of formation you don’t see to the moments of obedience that unlock supernatural authority. Pastor Mark reveals why being sent is different than simply going, how leaders can minister to high-capacity people, and why rushing your calling can do more harm than good.

If you’ve ever wondered when to move, how to wait, or what spiritual authority really looks like, this conversation will bring clarity, courage, and faith for your next step.


TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Redefining Riches And Pastoral Value
8:20 - Calling To Pastor The “Up And Out”
15:20 - Oceans Church Origin Story
27:00 - Vision, Dream, And Statewide Baptisms
37:00 - Timing, Process, And Being Sent

LEAD TO WIN RESOURCES
More Resources: https://leadtowin.com/
Win With People: https://leadtowin.com/pages/win-with-...
Register for Leaders Gathering: https://leadersgathering.leadtowin.com/
Information on Milestone Church: https://milestonechurch.com/

FIND US AT: https://leadtowin.com

GET IN TOUCH: Contact us at info@leadtowin.com

FOLLOW PASTOR JEFF
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jefflittle/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastorjefflittle

FOLLOW LEAD TO WIN
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leadto.win/

00:00 - Redefining Riches And Pastoral Value

08:20 - Calling To Pastor The “Up And Out”

15:20 - Oceans Church Origin Story

27:00 - Vision, Dream, And Statewide Baptisms

37:00 - Timing, Process, And Being Sent

WEBVTT

00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:05.040
Rich is according to scripture is not the car you drive or the house you live in.

00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.240
I believe pastors have this deposit to offer there.

00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:09.599
Now we can get intimidated.

00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:11.119
Why would they want to sit with me?

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Like you're one of the most valuable pieces that they could ever have in their life.

00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:15.759
Had to start figuring it out.

00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:20.239
What does some random dude in Idaho have to offer some guy that's playing in the Super Bowl?

00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:32.159
And I thought, I actually could be the one person in the world that is praying for their marriage, for their babies, for their career, for their investments, and for the desires in their heart by name.

00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.200
And I realized that's that's what pastors do.

00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:35.600
Yeah.

00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:37.520
That's what makes us unique.

00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:54.000
Yeah, I love to talk about the idea in our world today that everyone thinks all winning is the same, that if I hit the number or hit the goal goal or I make the purchase or close the deal, that that's holistic winning.

00:00:54.719 --> 00:01:06.000
And I was watching you as we were in this context with leaders, you and I being in some same rooms and mutually respecting each other, but getting to spend a little more time together the last few days.

00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.319
Um I just began to hear some things.

00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.359
It's kind of like, you know, you you can hear a note, right?

00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:17.599
You know, musicians hear a note, communicators listen, and I could, I could hear some things coming out.

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And uh so I just thought it would be a blessing to those listening to listen to some of your journey.

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So I want to, I want to first of all tell us just a little bit about Ocean's Church and what God's done.

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It's pretty miraculous what you've seen happen in a in a in in just the last few years, really.

00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.319
So well, thank you, Pastor Jeff.

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It's an honor to be on with you guys today.

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Big fans of uh both of you, and Milestone Church is, I think, uh maybe one of the prettiest church buildings in America.

00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:53.760
And I think you give even the most secure pastors a good dose of uh jealousy uh when we walk into your property.

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But uh just honor to be with you guys.

00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.319
Yeah, I'm I'm uh originally from California.

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I I got saved when I was 18 and uh married the pastor's daughter when I was uh got saved at a church in Boise, Idaho, of all places.

00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:06.719
Okay.

00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:22.800
And uh when that experience happened, spent 17 years of my life in Idaho and then kind of on a word from God and several layers of divine arm twisting from the Holy Spirit, uh, didn't want to go back to California and I thought California was gonna fall into the ocean.

00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:27.680
And luckily, when God gave me a dream with the name of our church, he told us to call it Ocean's Church.

00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:27.919
Yeah.

00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:32.319
So I thought, Lord, if California is gonna fall into the ocean, let them fall into Ocean's Church.

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There you go.

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And so uh we started the church in 2018.

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Church is six years old.

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Okay.

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It has been a wild ride.

00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:47.599
I think I made the comment the other night that if you've seen the footage of people outrunning the avalanches on skis, that's kind of what the last six years has felt like.

00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:55.360
Um good problems, you know, a lot of problems that most guys don't have when they start churches, um, but still challenges nonetheless.

00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:55.759
Yeah.

00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:06.639
But God's been very kind to us, and I do think that maybe he's been a little bit nicer to us than usual because he knew that if we did not have good success, we were not slugging it out for 10 years, we would have packed up.

00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:06.879
Right.

00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:11.680
I had a great house, great life in Boise, Idaho that we left to uh move to California.

00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.599
So we asked the Lord, God, if we're gonna be here, let us see some great impact.

00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.639
And uh it's been a it's been a really special last six years.

00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:26.800
So interesting, you had you had spiritual heritage in the family, yeah, but but then you had a lot of challenges.

00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:40.719
I mean, your your parents divorced when you were younger, so then you you kind of had that influence there, those seeds there, but you yourself not come into Christ till you were 18, right?

00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:46.159
So you you you had some spiritual heritage, but it was it was at 18 where you made that decision.

00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:46.639
Absolutely.

00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:48.879
Yeah, my my grandma and grandpa were missionaries, yeah.

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So they went to Japan and China.

00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.080
My grandma was mentored by Amy Sub-McPherson, the forest prayer movement.

00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:54.400
Yeah.

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And my grandpa got got saved at a William Branham healing crusade.

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Wow, wow, Indiana, and uh saw a guy, or really a lady on a death deathbed stretcher, and he pointed at her and said, God, if you're real, send that little preacher over there to heal that lady.

00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:19.600
He said, about 70 seconds after he prayed that prayer, William Branham walked through the crowd at one of the soccer stadiums or baseball stadiums and pulled this lady that was on desk doorstep off a stretcher.

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And he went into the uh bathroom, threw his tobacco pipe away, his flask, found a church that Sunday, and about a month later, my grandma was going through that church on furlough.

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Wow.

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And they met and got married.

00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:37.519
My dad was born in Japan and they were there, and so they joked that he was the best thing ever made in Japan.

00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.639
But my dad was kind of the you know rebellious missionary kid.

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I would say that my observation uh of the older generation is they thought they had to sacrifice their family for the ministry.

00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:50.639
So my dad grew up on a boarding school island.

00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:52.160
Oh, yeah, another island, right?

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And his sister did too.

00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.639
And I think that's why we had a lot of rebellion in that generation.

00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:56.959
Yeah.

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I think, you know, thankfully, our generation realizes that God sacrificed his family.

00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:01.439
Right.

00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.959
So we don't have to sacrifice ours.

00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:03.519
Right.

00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:03.839
Yeah, right.

00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:15.360
And so uh it's kind of skipped a generation, but I feel like, you know, I was the only one out of the grandkids to kind of pick up the ministry baton, got saved, and uh yeah, it's been a wild, it's been a wild ride for sure.

00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:15.759
Wow.

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:21.040
My wife says it's interesting, you know, obviously every kid has their own will.

00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:30.800
Yeah, there's not a formula, but most of the time people don't reject Jesus and the church because of the church house.

00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:31.279
Yes.

00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:33.040
It's usually because of their house.

00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:33.600
Yes, right.

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Right.

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100%.

00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.680
And that that has a bigger impact than even like ministry life.

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I know we have a lot of people listening and care a lot about that.

00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:40.879
Yes.

00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:50.399
And I always just try to tell them that it's it's more about what happens in your home than it is what happens with maybe your assignment in ministry.

00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:51.040
I agree.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.560
I I think I see my in-laws, they raised three incredible kids.

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I married their middle daughter.

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Yeah.

00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:00.959
Uh, they were my pastors when I got saved in Idaho, and I'm like, man, I'm gonna marry my boss's daughter.

00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:02.560
I will never get fired.

00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:03.920
Good job security.

00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:04.959
Great job security.

00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.759
So we uh we got married, but you know, all of her siblings, they all love Jesus, never walked away.

00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:14.720
I think my wife's, I don't know, her spiritual genealogy goes back to Gabriel or Michael, I think.

00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.319
If you go on ancestry.com, I think you can trace it back there.

00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:20.079
Um, and my family's the opposite.

00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:22.879
You could try you could trace this back to a fallen angel, probably.

00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.000
But um, no, just uh incredible in-laws.

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And I would say, you know, Ken and Connie Wilde, uh, pastor of phenomenal church, 43 years, just handed it over to their son.

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And uh all their kids love Jesus, all their grandkids love Jesus.

00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:49.759
And I would say, out of all the churches I've traveled to in the world, my my in-laws are some of the most pure pastors of just not just the people in the church, but the way they raise their kids was just really uh really exceptional.

00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.319
Well, can we go for a minute, if it's okay, Pastor Jeff?

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Can we go out?

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You you're talking there about your call and your new resource when with people, you're trying to help young leaders identify a call.

00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.160
I know a lot of young leaders are, what does that look like?

00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.959
Does God just like walk into a room and tell you what to do?

00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:07.600
You talked about getting this call from God.

00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:12.800
Can you kind of walk us through what that process was like for you, how you stewarded that call, the timing?

00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:18.399
Because a lot of people think, well, when I get a call, I just leave everything and jump to it, almost like you were saying with your grandparents.

00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.519
Talk a little bit about your journey and what that looked like for you.

00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:23.839
Man, uh, I think, you know, a couple things.

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I think God uses, He doesn't waste any of our experiences.

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That's the first thing I tell people is I think a lot of times we think if I'm gonna serve the call of God, he's gonna, if I surrender really, he's gonna make me do something ridiculous.

00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:34.319
Yeah.

00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:42.240
I'm gonna have to move somewhere I don't want to live, I'm gonna have to love some people I don't want to love, I'm gonna have to marry someone I'm attracted to, I'm gonna live in some mission field, I'm gonna hate my life.

00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:42.560
Yeah.

00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:52.240
And I think sometimes we have this false perception that God, for whatever reason, is gonna ask you to do something that you're not good at or ask you to do something that you're not you're not passionate for.

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Yeah.

00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:52.720
Right.

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I think that somewhere in our calling is the is the intersection of our passions, is of our trauma, of our past experiences, yeah, uh, and with our giftings.

00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.279
And I think that the outside X factor of those things would be timing.

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Right.

00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:16.240
So for me, I I think my parents getting divorced at seven, I went to like 12 schools in like four years, learning how to make friends with anybody and everybody, which is a lost skill, really.

00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:18.399
My wife was the same way.

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They moved around and then she married a church planter.

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So it worked amazing.

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Because you you you're good at making friends with anybody.

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And you have to.

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And I went to like low-income, we were like in the projects of Los Angeles.

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Yeah.

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My mom didn't graduate high school, so we were inner city, rough area.

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We live in the suburbs of LA.

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So if you couldn't afford to live in Section 8 housing in LA, they relocated you to the high desert.

00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:44.080
So I'm from Palmdale, Lancaster, which is the Nazareth of California.

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It's a home of Afro Man and Paul George.

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Yeah.

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Uh so I'm the third person to ever make it out of the Antelope Valley.

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But I uh, you know, I that was the trauma of my upbringing, saw a lot of crazy things, but developed people skills through that.

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Um, developed a love for connecting with people.

00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:10.159
And then when I got to high school, I ended up becoming, you know, uh, you know, got involved with as a prom king and got involved with snowboarding, got good at that.

00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:17.360
And when I got saved, I thought, so my encounter with Jesus was at a summer camp 2001.

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Had this encounter, and I hear the Lord say, I want you to move to Idaho, live with your dad, go to Bible college.

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Now, those I knew it was God because I would never think of anything that stupid.

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Yeah.

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Didn't like Idaho, right?

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Didn't like my dad.

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And Bible college, I don't think I've ever met a cool Bible college graduate.

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So I thought, God, you got your kids mixed up.

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Yeah.

00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:53.840
Um I don't know what's going on, but but all I could say is that when you really have a God experience with Jesus Christ, his presence is so divine, so glorious, better than drugs, sex, any of the stuff that I ever did before, that I was willing to do whatever it took to maintain that experience.

00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:54.159
Yeah.

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So I said, Lord, if you promise that my whole family, named them all by names, if they all come to know you the way that I've come to know you, I'll do whatever you want me to do in life.

00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:03.120
Wow.

00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:11.120
And I heard, I didn't hear the audible voice, but I heard a very, very internal loud whisper that said, Mark, if you give me your best, I'll give you my best.

00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.080
So I moved up.

00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:14.480
I thought I was gonna serve a year or two, like serve my time.

00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:14.879
Yeah.

00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:18.080
And then go back to California, become a pro snowboarder, travel the world.

00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:18.480
Right.

00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.080
And it was in that first year, we went to Portland, Oregon.

00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:24.559
We went to a big youth conference called Generation Unleashed.

00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.399
Crazy Aussie preacher named Russell Evans from Planet Shakers was preaching.

00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.399
I couldn't tell you what he preached on.

00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.799
Yeah, it could have been a message for senior citizens with hemorrhoids.

00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:36.799
I would have responded to that altar call.

00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:38.639
Heart was beaten out of my chest.

00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:38.960
Wow.

00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.039
And I knew that I was supposed to go forward, and I did.

00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:52.559
And when I got to that altar call, um, God brought me back to a memory when I was four years old, my grandma's my grandma's living room, and she was telling me missionary stories of doing laundry and rice patties in in Japan.

00:10:53.200 --> 00:11:02.799
And um, when I was four years old, I heard her tell me stories, and I walked to her bathroom in front of her linen closet, and in front of that closet, I heard a voice when I was four years old say, Mark, will you be a missionary too?

00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.720
And honestly, I heard it and I just said yes as a four-year-old.

00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:11.200
And I forgot that memory until I was 19 years old in Portland, Oregon.

00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:12.480
Wow at that altar call.

00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:17.039
And he said, Mark, I asked you when you were four years old if you'd be my missionary.

00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:18.559
And you said yes then.

00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.639
Will you still be say yes now?

00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.279
And I just started weeping because I forgot this memory.

00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:23.519
Yeah.

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I knew it was God.

00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.399
And I said yes, and I saw the globe, almost like the globes you see on a teacher's desk.

00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:28.639
Yeah.

00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.200
And I was like, I'm getting my I'm getting my assignment.

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I mean, I'm gonna go somewhere international.

00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.720
I'm gonna be a missionary with my grandparents.

00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.120
And he said, I'm gonna call you to the hardest people group of your generation.

00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.440
I'm gonna call you to North America to people that have everything that don't think they need me.

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.120
And you're gonna reach, you're gonna reach people that aren't just down and out.

00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:48.799
You're gonna reach people that are up and out.

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And as you reach them, you'll reach the ends of the earth.

00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:55.279
And I was 19 years old, and and that was when I knew I was called to ministry.

00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:01.120
And so I got back, and my youth pastor Chris Wilde, who's now my brother-in-law, he uh took me under his wing.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:01.759
He's brilliant.

00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.000
He's like Pastor Steve, smartest guy I know.

00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.759
He's like 49 years old.

00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.159
We'll call him 55, if uh just in case this podcast he listens to it five years later.

00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:24.320
But uh he uh smartest guy I know and just mentored me, loved me, started sending me these campus clubs and started on junior high campuses and these little Bible studies that normally had 12 little girls started having 150 kids show up.

00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:25.600
I would just share my testimony.

00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:28.720
I do a Fear Factor Joe Rogan game was kind of big back in that era.

00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:29.440
Yeah.

00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:34.240
And uh pretty soon, I mean, we're having 300 kids per lunch and meeting the gymnasiums.

00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:38.320
And he says, Mark, you have a gift to gather people and to you're an evangelist.

00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:38.480
Yeah.

00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.480
I'm like, let me look at what evangelist means.

00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:40.799
Yeah.

00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.440
I mean, I'm reading the lyrics to Chris Tomlin's songs at this point.

00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.200
I had no nothing about Jesus.

00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:46.960
Um, but I got thrown into it.

00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:55.440
And uh he took Vender's wing and eventually became you know youth pastor, taught Sunday school, became the chaplain at Boise State for their football team, kind of helped out with that.

00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:56.559
And we saw a revival.

00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:03.279
We saw like 10,000 college students uh get saved, you know, in a tenure window when I was in Boise State.

00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.440
And from that I had the opportunity to travel all over the world, go to youth conferences and speak.

00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:08.960
Some of the great churches in the world.

00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.080
Been Australia 17 times and Malaysia and Singapore.

00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:19.840
And um that's the first time, really the first time we connected was around a group of churches, and you were speaking at our at our youth.

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.360
I remember you coming in for that.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:21.759
Yeah.

00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:25.360
So we so you so you're in this, you're in this youth world.

00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:45.840
I mean, you're you're building a youth and you're working youth group there at your your church, and then you're working with college students and and you're traveling, now becoming a a bit of a a a voice to youth pastors and and and so then where did where did this you know the fulfillment of that will you be my missionary?

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.240
Yeah.

00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.399
What what what happened with that?

00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.480
How did you how did that all come about?

00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.120
Because you're you're doing great, you're you're you're fulfilled.

00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:55.679
You you weren't ambitious about something else.

00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.480
In fact, you could you could have stayed there the rest of your life, right?

00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:59.679
You're still planning on it.

00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:00.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.399
I was absolutely, I loved Idaho, I was in Boise, Idaho.

00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:02.559
Yeah.

00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.879
We just built our building our dream house, had our little girls, had a great life.

00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.279
Idaho, if you didn't know, is a lot cheaper than California.

00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:09.600
Yeah.

00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.799
Um so we were really enjoying uh the old Northwest.

00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:23.360
But um we got married in 05, and when we got married, my wife, her parents were planters, and she said, Mark, there's two things we never want to do is we never want to be lead pastors and we never want to start a church.

00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:28.960
My parents did it, and it was you know admirable and great, but we don't want to do it.

00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:29.440
It was hell.

00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.159
Yeah, I mean, I really grabbed a hold of that, right?

00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.080
Because I always said it this way.

00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:48.080
I was in a conference, church planting, campus ministry, world missions, you know, and I always said church planting on that banner and in that worship service looked a lot better on the banner than it did in my life.

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:48.639
100%.

00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:56.879
So it's just, you know, again, that doesn't stop us from doing what God's called us to do, but people do underestimate what's really involved.

00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:58.320
And so she grew up with that.

00:14:58.639 --> 00:14:59.759
Pastors' kids know more.

00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:00.399
They know, yeah.

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.720
They know.

00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.720
I heard Bill Johnson say that pastors' kids have to pay two call two prices.

00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:09.600
Yeah, they pay for their mom and dad's calling, and then when they get older, they pay for their own calling.

00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:10.080
Yeah.

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:15.039
And uh, so she, you know, they paid the price to be in that world their whole life, live under the microscope.

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.360
And so uh, she saw the best and the worst.

00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:25.360
And she loves Jesus, never got bitter towards a church, loves the church, but just said, Mark, we can serve, you know, high capacity, but we'll just serve mom and dad.

00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.600
And then when my brother takes over, we'll serve him.

00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.360
And I love her brother, was my mentor, and so we're happy to do that.

00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.000
And um, so that was the path we were on.

00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:35.039
So we agreed to that.

00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:45.440
And it was three years later, I was reading, ironically, Rick Warren's book, The Purpose-Driven Church, the story about how he started Saddleback Church, yeah, which ironically is like 20 miles from where our church is now.

00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:45.919
Yeah.

00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:51.039
So we uh I'm reading this book in 2008, and uh, I'm like starting to cry.

00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.960
I'm not an emotional person, I'm like crying reading this book.

00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:54.960
I'm like, Rashad, we're gonna start a church.

00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:56.159
She's like, No, we're not.

00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:56.960
We've talked about that.

00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:57.679
What are you talking about?

00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:58.879
It's the stupidest thing you said.

00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:00.240
And I said, You gotta read this book.

00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.679
She's like, I've read it before.

00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.960
Like, read it again.

00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.559
So she starts to read it, and God really starts to dock on her heart too.

00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.200
And our church was healthy and vibrant.

00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:13.519
Um, I mean, no church is perfect, but I mean, I'd say our church is about as healthy as I've ever seen.

00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.320
But we weren't necessarily a church-sending church.

00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.279
We weren't an apostolic hub that we were floating people out.

00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:24.320
So we never really seen anybody leave that was like celebrated, it was good.

00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:24.559
Right.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.240
We saw people that were disgruntled, power hungry, bitter, whatever.

00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.399
Never saw someone leave on a healthy note.

00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.399
So the idea of even leaving was like, man, this is like sin.

00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:34.639
Right.

00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:34.879
Yeah.

00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:39.360
So we said, Lord, we'll do it, but we're gonna make it really hard.

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.320
And this would be my advice for people that feel called to start a church.

00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.960
I think sometimes we make it so easy to leave to do something catastrophically big.

00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:47.440
Right.

00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.799
When we should on a big thing that's gonna change your life, your kids' life, your family's life.

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:58.960
I think we need to have some fleeces out there that that are validated and the multitude of counselors are safety.

00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.840
So for us, we said, Lord, we'll go anywhere in the world.

00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:09.279
But our one condition is my in-laws, our pastors, they have to initiate the conversation that you're called to be church planners.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.400
If they start that conversation, we'll go anywhere in the world.

00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.799
But if they don't start it, we're not, we're not leaving.

00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.079
And we'll never tell them anything.

00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:16.400
Right.

00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:18.640
So we thought, man, this is this is smart, man.

00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.000
This is a smart prayer.

00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.319
I was bragging about how smart my prayer was.

00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:24.640
I'm like, man, they'll never we'll have some grandkids.

00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:24.799
Right.

00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:26.079
They're not gonna ask us to leave.

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.640
There you go.

00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:27.119
That's smart.

00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:28.079
Use the grandkids.

00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:29.200
I thought we were safe.

00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:29.599
Yeah.

00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:45.200
And so uh they're at a conference, it's a year and a half goes by, and they're at a conference, and there's this prophetic lady there named Cindy Jacobs, and she'd been to our church a couple of times, actually prayed for me when I was in Bible college, called me out of a room of 1,100 people, and prayed things over me then that I'm still doing now.

00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:45.680
Wow.

00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.640
And um, so she uh she says, How many kids do you guys have again, Ken and Connie?

00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:58.000
And they said, We have three kids, and and they go, uh, your middle middle daughter, she married, yeah, he's she's she's married, this incredible guy, good-looking guy.

00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.920
He works out a lot, he's buff, really good looking.

00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:00.799
I'm just kidding.

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.240
Uh no, she they she says, Yeah, she's married, and she got up and left the table and she came back.

00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:13.599
She said, When I left the table, the Holy Spirit said that your son-in-law is not from Idaho, he's from somewhere else.

00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.240
And uh they said, Yeah, he's from Southern California.

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.319
And she said, They're church planners.

00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:18.799
Wow.

00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.359
They're gonna move back to Southern California, they're gonna start a church that becomes a global movement.

00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:28.799
And my in-laws are like, That is the dumbest prophetic word we have probably ever heard.

00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.319
And uh no, they didn't say that.

00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.240
They came back, they were gracious, but they said we had to talk to you, we got home, we had a kind of strange thing happen.

00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:35.440
And we were in their kitchen.

00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:40.960
I could tell you where I was sitting in their kitchen on the countertop, and they started telling us this thing, and it was like a water bloom popped.

00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:41.279
Wow.

00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.480
Started weeping.

00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.000
That was 2010.

00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.160
So um we knew that was what put we're gonna leave one day.

00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.240
God has a promised land for us.

00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:53.359
Um it's not now, but it's down the road.

00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:58.319
Almost probably felt like when you get married going, we're gonna have kids one day, but we ain't anywhere close to that yet.

00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:58.559
Right.

00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.400
We have things we want to do before we have kids.

00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:00.799
Yeah.

00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.119
And so we just waited on God's timing.

00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:04.559
I think timing's a big deal.

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:10.640
And uh, I had a dream, a really vivid dream, two years later that actually I didn't know where we were gonna go.

00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:12.799
I didn't know the name of our church.

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.920
And I had a vivid dream on this big wide, it was a three-part dream.

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:21.039
I won't bore you with all the details, but the first part of the dream, I was on a giant beach sandbar.

00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.119
There's a giant stage, line array speakers, huge LED wall.

00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:33.119
I'd say half the size of the milestone LED's wall, you know, just a giant wall, about the size of a Dallas Cowboy Stadium, uh about their wall.

00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:45.599
But just giant wall, and my my wife and I were on this massive stage, and there was maybe, I'm not trying to exaggerate, 100,000 people or maybe more on this beach, kind of like the mall in DC, lining the coast.

00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:48.880
And there was a pier behind us, and we were on the stage.

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.680
And the weirdest part of the dream, Pastor Jeff, was the moment it started, I knew I was dreaming.

00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.000
Usually, when you're dreaming, you don't know you were dreaming until you wake up.

00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:56.160
Right.

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.720
I knew as soon as the dream started, I was, I was dreaming.

00:19:58.799 --> 00:19:59.759
And I felt like the cameraman.

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.319
And thousands were getting baptized, and thousands of people were getting healed, like the book of Acts, blind eyes opening up.

00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.279
It was like revival.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.960
And I was on the stage and the kind of went over the huge crowd.

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:16.480
And on the stage, I said, God told us to come from Idaho to California to start a church.

00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.000
He gave us a dream.

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.799
And the weirdest part was, as soon as I said, on the stage, God gave us a dream.

00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.759
I leaned in like the cameraman, like, what was the dream?

00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:32.160
And I said, in the dream, God gave us the name of our church to call it Ocean's Church, out of Isaiah and out of Habakkuk.

00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:32.400
Wow.

00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.680
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea or the oceans.

00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:43.279
And so I said, that was the first time I ever heard Ocean's Church was from myself in the dream.

00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:43.599
Wow.

00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:48.240
And the weirdest part was, if I'm being honest with you, when you start a church, you tell everyone your story.

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:55.119
I had told this story a jillion times, but it wasn't until we started Baptize California, which was two years ago.

00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:01.839
We baptized 4,100 people at Pirates Cove and we baptized 12,000 last year in Huntington Beach and in California.

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:13.119
But it wasn't until we did the first year of it that I realized I don't think that that picture in the dream was an analogy for revival, which all those years I told the story, I thought it was an analogy for revival.

00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.519
Yeah.

00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:15.920
I actually think I saw a picture of the future.

00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:22.079
And now this, this just this week, I'm not sure when this recording will come out, but this week we'll be at um Huntington Beach.

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.240
We're anticipating 40,000 to show up this week.

00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.680
We'll baptize over 10,000 in one day, one location.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.240
Be the largest baptism in American history.

00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:35.440
But I think that even what I saw my dream is beyond what's going to happen this week.

00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:40.480
I think that we're going to keep building it every year, but I think the day will come that we'll actually position the stage.

00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.720
The pier will be behind us at Huntington Beach.

00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:43.359
I saw it.

00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:48.559
So when our uh our media guys they said we could do it at Huntington, they opened up their laptop two years ago.

00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:49.519
You saw the picture.

00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.960
And I said, I've seen that before.

00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:51.279
Wow.

00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:53.200
I saw that in 2012.

00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:53.599
Wow.

00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.119
When God gave us the name of our church.

00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.000
So amazing.

00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:56.960
I know, I get it.

00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:58.799
I've told my pastor friends these stories.

00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:00.960
They're like, Mark, these are crazy stories.

00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:02.079
We don't usually have that.

00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.799
We just thought, where's there no good churches and we start a church there?

00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:05.200
Right.

00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:08.079
I just think I had a hard head and I'm not that smart.

00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.240
And God had to give me a lot of confirmations to make me do what He's asked me to do.

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:29.680
I want to go back though, because, you know, a few people will plant a church, but there's a lot of people listening who maybe, you know, they're being asked to start a youth ministry or a small group or a business or whatever wherever they're at.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:35.519
But I think one of the things that I talk about a lot is vision is where you're going.

00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:38.799
It's that picture of a preferable future of where you're going.

00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.079
Strategy is how you get there.

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.039
But this execution piece, right?

00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:51.599
Which I think, if I were to say one of the big things that holds people back from ultimately winning, you have to have that vision piece.

00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:51.920
Yep.

00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:55.039
You have to be, there has to ultimately be eight oceans.

00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:03.440
It has to be in California, you know, we're going to have this atmosphere, we're going to have these baptize moments, where all the elements of it.

00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:08.000
But but the execution piece, a lot of people get tripped up at the execution.

00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:08.720
Yeah, for sure.

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.119
And timing is such a big part of that.

00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:11.440
Yeah.

00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:35.039
And you said something which I actually just like grabbed a hold of, you know, like like talking about timing, because I've said I've said multiple times, when you get around great leaders, the combination of submission to God, working with counsel, submitting to others allows them to do you can you can have the right thing at the wrong time.

00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:36.559
Sabotage everything.

00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:38.079
And you were just talking about that.

00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:45.839
So I've said if you were to talk about great leaders and leadership or whatever pastorship, I mean, timing is so big.

00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:46.400
Huge.

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.039
Timing.

00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:51.200
And there's the timing of God, there's the Kairos moment, there's the Kranos timing.

00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.799
There's also allowing the process of God.

00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:55.200
Yep.

00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.039
You know, we tend to be a vent, right?

00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.880
God's very process and seasonal.

00:23:59.119 --> 00:23:59.440
100%.

00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:05.359
And so I I think that was a huge part of your story because you you did stay there.

00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:06.319
Eight more years.

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:07.200
Eight more years.

00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:07.680
Yes.

00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:08.160
Right?

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:08.640
Yes.

00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.440
And and and that sounds a lot more like the Bible, right?

00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.559
I mean, God, He's on time, but He's never early.

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:14.799
Right.

00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:15.039
Never.

00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.759
It's just kind of like, you know.

00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.519
So I I I mean, I think that's something for someone out there.

00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.240
No one's telling you necessarily no.

00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:24.720
Yeah.

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.640
But God might be saying not now.

00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.440
Yeah, 100%.

00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:29.519
I mean, there's a difference in no and not now.

00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:30.079
100%.

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:39.279
Well, I think even for us, our story was unique because at actually six years in, I mean, I felt like I was pregnant, and every year I'd go visit California, scout the land out.

00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:40.240
It was like romance.

00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.960
I get down there, I'm like, I'm ready to pastor this church today.

00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:43.359
Right.

00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:46.799
But I go back to Idaho and they say, hey, it's not quite yet, not ready yet.

00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.880
And I got to the point of 2016, my brother-in-law was taking the church.

00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.920
You know, at this time the church is 35 years old or something.

00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.960
He's taken over.

00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.559
Our youth ministry is real big, youth ministry in our church.

00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.920
And um, he said, Mark, I know you've been waiting for these last six years.

00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:05.920
He says, I'll send you, like this year, I'll send you blessed.

00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.119
And I felt a little bit of just a little bit, I could hear it in his voice, you know.

00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.599
It's a story about when David said, I'm just thirsty.

00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.359
I wish I had some water from the well.

00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.920
And some of his best friends knew him so well that they were willing to sacrifice everything to get water for him because they knew the tone of his voice.

00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:23.359
And I knew I knew Chris's voice.

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:29.279
I said, Chris, if you could write our story of how I leave and when I leave, when would you want me to leave?

00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:30.079
That's awesome.

00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:36.079
And he said, Mark, he said, Um, to be honest with you, I think you guys leave, you're big leaders in our church.

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.079
If you leave the same year that we take the church, that's a lot of rocking of the boat.

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:42.480
Right.

00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:48.079
He said, if you'll stay an extra year or so, he said, I'll even send you more blessed in the future.

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.839
And I said, Chris, I want this to be a win for you, and I I want it to be a win for us.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:55.359
And he said something so profound.

00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:07.440
He said, Mark, if you'll make every decision on your transition with my best interest in mind, and I make every decision from my perspective with your best interest in mind, we'll do this transition better than anyone's ever done it.

00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.160
So beautiful.

00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:09.440
And that's what we did.

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:10.319
I waited another two years.

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.079
And I, you know, I think there's two things.

00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.559
When you're young, ambitious, I think there's two perspectives.

00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:16.880
I saw a lot of my friends leave to start churches, yeah.

00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:18.079
Great churches.

00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:26.720
And I saw a lot of a miss out on the joy of the last window of not being a lead pastor because of the obsession of the dream.

00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:26.960
Yeah.

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.799
You can shift into, I can't wait to do this.

00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:31.279
Yeah.

00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.359
And then I realized there was a second option.

00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:40.640
I can have the option B, which goes, Lord, I want to enjoy this last window before it's gone.

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:40.960
Wow.

00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:41.279
Right.

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.240
Um, when I moved to Idaho, my whole family followed me.

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:49.039
So my daughters had both sets of grandparents, all of their cousins in a 10-mile radius.

00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:55.440
And I realized when we moved to California, this will be the last window of my family's life that will all be close like this.

00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:01.440
So rather than being motivated by my ambition, which I think all great leaders have good ambition, I had that drive.

00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:06.240
But instead of going, I can't wait, I wanted to have a let's enjoy this while it lasts.

00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:06.559
Yeah.

00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.839
And for me, that was able, that that was the difference between having a good attitude versus being in a hurry.

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.079
And um I do think the longer, you know, we we hear this all the time.

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:17.839
My wife had two really bad pregnancies.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.960
We probably have a big family.

00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:20.319
I probably have 10 kids right now.

00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.000
So my wife can't keep her hands off me.

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.519
But um, I mean, can you blame her?

00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:24.079
I'm just kidding.

00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.119
But no, we would have a bigger family, but my wife had two really hard pregnancies.

00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:29.359
Right.

00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:31.920
She had pre-clamtia, she had hypertension.

00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.519
She was on bed rest for both girls for three months each.

00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:35.839
Wow.

00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:36.079
Yeah.

00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:37.599
Like strict bed rest, right?

00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.119
Hospital bed in the living room.

00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:43.359
And she got on bed rest right around week 21.

00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:50.640
And so, you know, we know that when your wife gets pregnant, if your baby comes early enough, it's life-threatening.

00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:51.200
Yeah.

00:27:51.599 --> 00:28:04.160
And, you know, we know the story of Abraham that, you know, Abraham created all these problems in the Middle East, not because he didn't have a promised son, but because he tried to bring a promise to pass in his own strength, right?

00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.440
In his own timing.

00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:06.000
Right.

00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:13.039
And I think for us, people go, they see the, you know, some of the blessing that God's put on our church and whatever else we're doing.

00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:19.200
I I think they they think it's, you know, you're only six years old and you guys bought this expensive building and there's a lot of cool things happening.

00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:23.279
But I would trace, you know, what we're doing now that God made up the time.

00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:24.960
Probably like your story, Pastor Jeff.

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:39.599
That God made up the time of you being a good son, going because you didn't leave early and take the easy road and you didn't dishonor your father's to build your own field, um, but you actually stayed in the womb full term.

00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:40.000
Yeah.

00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:41.759
You came out healthier.

00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:47.759
I see a lot of my friends that start churches prematurely and they end up in a spiritual incubator.

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:48.000
Wow.

00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.000
And it's like they're in the NICU for the first five years of their church, yeah.

00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:53.839
Going, this thing's gonna die.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:54.240
Wow.

00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.000
We're just trying to keep it alive.

00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:56.880
We hate it.

00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:58.000
This is suffering.

00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:09.200
And I'm certainly not saying that every church that suffering is is pre premature, but I think for us, I think that we had a 10-pound baby because we kept that turkey in there as long as we could.

00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:13.039
Well, there's there's there's a real reality to the sending component.

00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.920
You use the cliche, which I use we all use, being sent versus just went.

00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:29.119
And and there is a spiritual authority when you go into an area, and especially if you're gonna go into an area with those kind of principalities and powers and that missiological structure in LA.

00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:29.759
Yeah, right.

00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.440
And every every place has its own challenges and barriers.

00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.559
There's an authority there.

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.519
And I know for me, that's what happened is I had this dream.

00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:43.359
I laid out a SWOT analysis, a plan, and my pastor leaned back in his chair and said, I don't like it.

00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:43.680
Yeah.

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.799
And his word to me was you're not running to something, you're running from something.

00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:49.200
Yeah.

00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.319
And so it was this idea that there's a greener pasture syndrome.

00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.799
Yes, you know, and that can also be at work as well.

00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:05.599
Oh, I can't win in my youth ministry here or my children's ministry, or but I will win when I'm in charge, which is a lie.

00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.000
100%.

00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:06.480
Right.

00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:14.400
And so I think that leads you to this area, LA, you know, different missiological, you know, what do I mean by that?

00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:16.319
That's just the study of how to reach people.

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:26.240
And so God's God, when you go with God's authority, you also get the keys to the kingdom that unlocks that on his behalf.

00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:33.599
I think something though, I want to spend just a moment on this as well, because I think I meet a lot of pastors and God sent you to a certain context.

00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:33.839
Okay.

00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.599
I pastored in a furniture store in a small East Texas, I mean a small town, uh, I pastored in a central Texas small church.

00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.240
I mean, uh, I I've pastored all contexts of people.

00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:45.039
I love people.

00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:45.440
Sure.

00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:50.400
So this isn't necessarily about, you know, one one group is better than any group.

00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.400
You just have to go to the assignment that you're given.

00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:52.880
100%.

00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:02.799
But when you go to Orange County, you go to LA, you go to these areas, I think I want, I want to say a few things about reaching people that are up and out.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.680
Because you use the term, hey, God sent me to the up and out.

00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:08.559
And and and what is it about pastors?

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.839
Because I have a passion, I have a passion for that.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.319
You know, I I believe that that's why I I write about it.

00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:24.319
You know, the way to win book is a 38-week strategy to disciple business leaders to make them rich where they're poor.

00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:24.720
Yeah.

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:29.519
Because riches, according to scripture, is not the car you drive or the house you live in, right?

00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:31.440
So it's like, what can we, what can we do?

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:37.599
And I I believe pastors and and spiritual people have this deposit to offer there.

00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:43.279
Or, you know, talking about win with people, shepherd, shepherd, you know, being that shepherd, being that pastor.

00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:48.079
I I want I want pastors to see, and I know there's probably some out there listening.

00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.759
What do I have to say to this person?

00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:51.359
You know, we can get intimidated.

00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:51.839
Sure.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.240
Like we can, we can feel like like I don't, I don't know how to, why would they want to sit with me?

00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:59.039
And you need to change, they have to change their whole perspective.

00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.079
Like you're one of the most valuable pieces that they could ever have in their life.

00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:02.480
100%.

00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:16.160
One of the most successful guys in our area around here told me the other day, he said, you know, he he he just looked at me because I told him when he came to the church, he went to our membership class, and I said, you know, I don't expect you to trust me, but I look forward for the opportunity to be your pastor.

00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:18.160
Yeah, God's he's got tears in his eyes.

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:18.880
Yeah, powerful.

00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:20.559
And he's like, No one's ever told me that.

00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.039
Yeah.

00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.920
So, so tell me how how you or what you would offer to people.

00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:44.079
Maybe there's a young leader who's got an assignment where I've got a I've got a minister to these people older than me, or you got an assignment of people that have a different social structure or financial structure, like you going there, because you've had some influence with your area.

00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:48.720
What are some of the thinking processes about how are you helping those people win?

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.799
What what value are you adding?

00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.799
Like how have you approached that?

00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.400
What was your thought process?

00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:00.480
Well, for me, I think I had to start figuring it out when I was when I was starting past a lot of these college football app football players.

00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:00.720
Yeah.

00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.839
I I knew that when they were in college, I mean, I was when I was helping out the football team, they weren't making millions of dollars.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:06.079
Right.

00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:11.279
And some of these guys were getting busted for stealing sweats at Walmart because they were barely making it.

00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:11.519
Yeah.

00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:11.839
Yeah.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.559
So, you know, I could be a blessing to those guys.

00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.000
I had more money than they did.

00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:16.720
I had a house.

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:18.799
These guys were broke college students.

00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:26.000
So when they're in college, you know, you have this kind of advantage to offer them, like, hey, come out, we'll hang out, we'll grab some food, we'll hang out together.

00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:33.680
But when they uh got to the pros and they're like, they don't need my help, they don't need a meal, they don't need these guys are doing great.

00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:44.880
And I I realized that um, what do you offer someone that has a beautiful spouse, a beautiful house that's on Sports Center, yeah, signs a giant contract?

00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:45.039
Right.

00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.759
What does some random dude in Idaho have to offer some guy that's playing in the Super Bowl?

00:33:50.240 --> 00:34:05.519
And I thought, man, I actually could be the one person in the world that is praying for their marriage, that's good, for their babies, yeah, for their career, for their investments, and for the desires in their heart by name.

00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.960
And I realized that's that's what pastors do.

00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:09.360
Yeah.

00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:10.960
That's what makes us unique.

00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.119
Yeah, that we're going to God.

00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.239
You know, the Bible talks about, you know, Moses, Jethro.

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.719
Jethro says, What's the job of a great pastor?

00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:31.599
And maybe some of the best advice for a pastor in the Old Testament is he says, your job is to go to God on the behalf of the people, to bring the difficulties of the people before God, yeah, and to teach them the way they need to walk, the work they need to do.

00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:38.480
And I realize if I would go to God specifically and say, Lord, today I'm praying for my friend Jay, or I'm praying for my friend Jamar, or I'm praying for my friend.

00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:41.519
Wait, one of the guys, what can I pray for them today?

00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.840
And I would just listen to the voice, and God would give me a verse or something, I would send it to them.

00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:46.239
Yeah.

00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:49.039
And honestly, that, like to your point, it would make them rich.

00:34:49.119 --> 00:35:01.360
They would feel man, that I would say stopping there, like you underestimate every person, no matter and maybe even more so if you're if you're quote unquote successful, carrying pressure.

00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:01.920
Yep.

00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:03.360
Everybody needs encouragement.

00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:06.159
Just some encouragement, pray and send somebody a test.

00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.239
Telling them, man, I'm praying for you.

00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.079
Yeah, everybody's human.

00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:11.280
That's so huge.

00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:11.760
Huge.

00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.000
I I had them all, so I started getting all the guys.

00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.800
We're gonna read a chapter a day, and I'd send them the chapter we're reading.

00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.119
Yeah, and I would send them my favorite verse of the day.

00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:19.440
Yeah.

00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:24.000
So I started with five guys and ten guys, and pretty soon, I mean, today I've been doing it now.

00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.079
I think I've been doing this since 2007.

00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.840
I have eight text threads with 30 guys in each thread.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:30.239
Wow.

00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.639
And I have one of them just dedicated to the NFL.

00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:32.960
Wow.

00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.119
And to this day, it's funny because now a lot of the guys are coaches in the NFL.

00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.920
Um, they're retired, you know, they're doing real estate now.

00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.639
Um, only a few of them are still in the league playing.

00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.280
Um, but I send a verse to them every single day still.

00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:46.960
It's the first thing I do when I wake up.

00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.599
And I've been doing that for the last, I don't know, 2007.

00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:51.840
You guys do the math on it, but a lot of years.

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.559
And those guys are like, and I've had so many people say, Man, Mark, I just needed a word from God this morning.

00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:56.800
Yeah.

00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.880
And that verse this morning you sent me.

00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:05.440
And so I've tried my best to be intentional with I I love that's so much of what your message is about being a shepherd.

00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:07.199
I just that resonates in me.

00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.599
I'm not the smartest guy, I'm not the most gifted guy.

00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.559
But I'm like, I'll love you well, and I'll talk to God about you.

00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:15.119
Yeah.

00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:18.320
And whatever he puts on my heart for you and your family, I'll share it with you.

00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:19.039
There you go.

00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:27.199
And I think that that is more valuable because you're right, most people in high places, everyone around them is leeching.

00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:27.519
Right.

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.360
They want something from it, they're absorbing it.

00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.519
Yes.

00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:37.039
This is this is one of those things that I notice too is elder, elders' qualification, not fond of sordid gain.

00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:44.639
So if you don't have, if you don't have faith that God is your provider, then you can't lead successful people.

00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:50.639
Because everybody around them is leeching off of their success or faith or whatever it is.

00:36:50.800 --> 00:37:01.679
I mean, but someone that has spiritual authority, you know, Jesus spoke as one having authority because we have Christ, then it's not, it's not about what they have.

00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:01.920
Yes.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:02.079
Right.

00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:09.599
And so the a person who's under the authority of Christ, you may be the one person also that gains the opportunity to tell them the truth.

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:11.920
Obviously, we tell them the truth in love.

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:12.400
Yes.

00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:13.679
But I care about your soul.

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.159
100%.

00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:15.840
And that and that gets tested too.

00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:17.599
Because I mean, I remember even in the early days.

00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:17.920
Yeah.

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.400
I remember I'm like, man, I feel like I have to pastor this guy.

00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:22.320
He just signed a giant contract, doesn't go to our church.

00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:23.519
I'm not a lead pastor.

00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:28.159
But I'm like, look, I need to pastor this guy and go, hey, you want God to bless your career, you put him first.

00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.400
Right.

00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:29.119
Put him first.

00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.480
That means you find a local church.

00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.280
I gave him a list of churches he can check out in that city.

00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:34.639
And I said, You might not like this.

00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:38.880
You might not like me for saying this, but I think you need to give God a reason to bless your football career.

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:39.920
You want to do that?

00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:45.519
One of the ways, not the only, but one of the ways, you find a local church and I would tithe off of every dollar you make.

00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:46.159
So good.

00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.159
And I'm not going to preach anything to you that I don't live myself.

00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.880
I always tell people I don't sell anything that I don't smoke myself.

00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:51.440
It's good.

00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:53.280
And I said, I would do that if I was you.

00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.320
That's what I tell my kids.

00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:56.880
A reason to bless your life.

00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:57.519
Exactly.

00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.760
And so, I mean, I ruffled some feathers, but I think, you know, a couple of thoughts.

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:10.320
You said something really profound last night, I believe with all my heart, is people can tell the difference when you want something from them or you want something for them.

00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:11.119
It's really good.

00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:12.800
And I think it's okay.

00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:21.280
There's a fine line in, I think, in life, motive is such a there's such a thin line between a good motive and a bad motive.

00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:26.880
And I think every day we wake up as pastors and we go, God, let me never lose my pure motive.

00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:27.360
Exactly.

00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.000
I'm not trying to manipulate, I'm not trying to get something from anybody.

00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:43.039
And I think that if our heart, we fight for that true North to go, God, I don't ever want to fall in love with the rich young ruler for his influence, the rich young ruler for what he can offer our church.

00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:48.480
I want to love him for what you have for him, not for what he can do for our church.

00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:56.480
And I think God stops trusting us with rich young rulers when we sacrifice his truth to keep their love.

00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.280
So good.

00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:58.960
And so that gets tested sometimes.

00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:00.960
It's really that's a stewardship, right?

00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:04.559
Like God, people will ask you, I know, how do you get those kind of leaders in your church?

00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:08.000
And it's like, well, how are you stewarding the relationships you already have?

00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:10.480
Those conversations are difficult conversations.

00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.519
You might be the only one in their life who'll have that conversation with them.

00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:19.199
So doing that is how God really opens those doors and allows those kinds of leaders into your environment.

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.320
So to bring it full circle, so first of all, thank you.

00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.719
Yes, thank you for doing it right.

00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:32.719
Thank you for going to that area of the country where, you know, of course, we hear the jokes and the stories and the whatever, right?

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:37.039
But but those are real people that God loves and he cares about them.

00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.719
And, you know, it is a beautiful place to suffer for Jesus.

00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:41.199
Right.

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:55.519
So yeah, I mean, but but thank you for doing it right and and thank you for being a place that's preaching the gospel and baptize America and water baptizing people, which is what Jesus before he ascended into the heavens said is a big part of what we're supposed to do.

00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:57.920
Thank you for for all of that.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:59.760
And and I think the takeaway, because I mean.

00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.639
I always want to bring the takeaway back to the everyday person out there winning.

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:05.119
Okay.

00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:19.760
What I what I what I hear, okay, is the faith and the trust in God to wait, to do it right, to prefer, to submit.

00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.400
All those words are they look great on paper.

00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.400
Not sexual.

00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.280
So faith, it's it's in the faith to trust God.

00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:33.280
If you're willing, whatever you compromise to get, you have to compromise to keep.

00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:51.039
So if you've if you're if you have the faith to do it God's way, that's the same faith that you trust God anyway, so you don't have to manipulate team members, staff, resources, buildings, NFL players, whoever they are, because you've you've been trusting God the whole time anyway.

00:40:51.679 --> 00:41:00.159
And so the takeaway for me for this, your life, the impartation, listening to you with these leaders is hey, God is trustworthy.

00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:02.480
So like let's let's trust him.

00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.000
And and and he wants to give us big visions and dreams.

00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:06.239
Yes.

00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.599
He's still doing that.

00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:13.920
And if if we would trust, we we could win in a in a different dimension of winning.

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:14.320
Yes.

00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:16.320
Like winning, winning holistically.

00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:16.719
Yes.

00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:17.360
You know what I mean?

00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:30.880
Winning with your family, winning with your soul, winning with your integrity, winning with your relationship still with your brother-in-law, your your you know, does does there have to be so much loss for somebody to win?

00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:31.280
Yes.

00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:40.800
And and I see that happening with you, and and we pray that God just continues to bless Ocean Church and everything you guys are doing because uh because God's doing amazing things.

00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:41.840
So thank you for being here with me.

00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:43.360
Oh, it's my honor to be with you guys today.

00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:44.000
Thanks for having me.

00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.599
I want to thank both of you guys for the wisdom, inspiration, and a lot of practical things.

00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:51.039
I hope you out there watching took some of those practical things and we'll apply them.

00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.639
We want to thank you so much for joining us here on the Lead to Win podcast.

00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.599
We'll see you next time.

00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:01.679
I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast.

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:12.639
I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most.

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:26.400
So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to win.