What You Actually Want For Your Kids

The RV Vacation From Hell

SPEAKER_04 0:02

I was thinking about one of our vacations.

SPEAKER_05 0:05

We know you're the leader of the budget. Let's go to our gave me this RV. I was like, I'm dropping off in this dark. You're supposed to have like a CDL or something.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Me and Lauren slept on the kitchen table. We had a fly infestation. Mom was like, this is so much fun. I'm glad we're having family time. And everyone was like, oh. We're still talking about it today.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

I mean, you have sewage, you have water, plumbing, black and white.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

It's black and white.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

There's not a lot of gray. I see like prisms of different colors. Y'all turned out good because mom is the best Christian. She's the best Christian I know.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Me and Hannah. We get up early, get out there.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

It was hand-to-hand combat.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I think I slapped you a couple times.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

Yeah, it was kick him in the nose and make his nose crooked.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Today we're back, Lead to Win podcast. It is a fun episode, a little bit of a different format than we might normally do. And today, joined obviously Pastor Jeff and Brandy, my parents, and then my sister Hannah. And so excited. I was thinking today about just some of our worst memories together. I thought that was be a good place to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

Hannah has like a real good podcast posture. She kind of has the hair. She's sitting there. I can feel you looking at the podcast. I can just see you looking at the podcast posture. I think we should do a whole podcast on how do you do podcast posture.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

I don't know why my mic is so tall. For people that are listening and not watching, why is Caleb Trent exerting the children?

SPEAKER_05 1:34

That's like the Presbyterian church where they would preach from the pulpit and look down on another one. That's Caleb Trent.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

I didn't put this here ahead of time, but um I was thinking about one of our vacation.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

We know you're the leader of the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Trying to get to our vacation from hell. When we were younger, and I thought about it today because you were calling someone about a bunch of mechanical stuff, and you kind of try to hide that you have a mechanical side. You worked at an HVAC company, and you you don't want to actually have to have any tools or fix anything, and you just kind of you don't want anyone to know that.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

But just kind of manage.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Right. Manage over speed. Project manage. Yeah, but not even that.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

But yeah, like from a distance.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

From a distance, coach. And um it's what we do here at Lead to Winds. We don't really know how to do anything, we just tell other people what to do.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

But we did see that you didn't have as much as we thought when we went on an RV trip. Where did that even come from? You were kind of mom, you you thought about that?

SPEAKER_07 2:35

I did. I thought it would be a fun adventure. We could have the little colored lights that you string up. Let's go to Arctic. The red whites. Maybe take some real nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:43

Her grandparents, when they retired, which was really early, they started traveling around. They got mopeds and a camper. And so mom would go visit and she wanted to ride the mopeds. And so she has these, you know, life is a lot about how you have revisionist history of fond memories. So she remembered her going to her grandparents' campsite at Lake Whitney and riding mopeds, so she wanted that for y'all. Yeah, she wanted that. I said no initially.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

We got a one-bed. A one-bed.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Me and Lauren slept on the kitchen table. Mom and dad had a queen bed.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

We drove to Burleson, and I couldn't even believe they gave me this RV. I was like, I'm driving off in this. Aren't you supposed to have like a CDL or something? Oh my god. Oh. Threw y'all in there, and then we went up to like where? Like hot springs.

SPEAKER_07 3:31

Catherine's Landing in Arkansas. I remember it was Arkansas. Good, it was powerful. Felt like Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

But they there's something really important. I mean, you have sewage, you have water plumbing on these motorized bags.

SPEAKER_05 3:43

I didn't really know about how that works. It like has a storage tank. I don't think we ever plugged in anything. We just like plugged in the power and then the thing. And so then we were driving back and this and the uh septic tank was full of poop and it was sloshing around, and everybody's like, Why does it smell like No?

SPEAKER_02 3:58

It happened while we were there because it kind of like busted, and then we had a fly infestation from all of the flies coming in. And we would be like me and Lauren would be laying on the kitchen table, and flies just mom was like, This is so much fun. I'm glad we're having family time. And everyone was like, Oh, we're still talking about it today.

Why We Teach On Family

SPEAKER_04 4:15

A memory, it's definitely a memory. Well, that's kind of a I think a good segue into our conversation today. So every year we do a series at Milestone Church called Let's Talk Family. It's probably the most downloaded content all year, something that people ask about. And at the same time, we have this podcast. And so uh probably about six months ago, we did a couple different family episodes, just short episodes talking about family. And we got some of the most um highly reviewed questions. Thank you for doing this off of those episodes.

SPEAKER_05 4:49

Which I think if people like, by the way, could like or subscribe and send in if they want this, it'll help fuel me. And I ask everybody to watch the episode The Reluctant Leader in this area of family. And so if this is this is your first time listening to me, I am the reluctant leader when it comes to teaching and talking about family. I I go through in that episode. We started the church, I was 28, she was two, you were one, and I would teach on family as a pastor. In other words, I have no apology for the word of God.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Teach out of the word, do family series. I'm in a suburban context. There's families, young families, what they care about the most. Then there was a shift to where I'm writing on identity. Identity is shaped so much by family, and I started feeling this conviction to share now from a different place to help families and speak a little bit as a pastor and to leaders. And I had so much spiritual warfare because I just was like, man, I just I don't want to put myself out there. I'm I would I'm not gonna be fake and say I'm always the reluctant leader. There are a few things in the area of leadership where you go, give me the ball, I'll be like, I got it, and I can, I, I, I can run that ball. This is one of those places where I felt a growing responsibility from God to talk about because I think we owe it. I had a lot of leaders that had some challenges along the way, but they they shared on this subject, and it helped helped us all so much. So I want to be very clear. I teach on family and do let's talk family because I'm a pastor and I pastor a church, and a church is made up of families, and the word of God starts with a family, and Jesus was born in a family, and the New Testament letters are filled with teachings on family. And I would love if you know anyone listening to this to come to the series Let's Talk Family. I do that because I want to serve the people of our church, and I'm I'm I'm a steward before God with the word. But as it pertains to like this podcast, like we're gonna get into a practical topic. I know that you feel like is one of the top ones people have asked about. I just want to make it clear I'm very much the reluctant leader, meaning I feel an assignment from God, but it's also a challenging area because people have so much pain in this area, you know, and we're not trying to set ourselves up as a standard.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah, and I think you hit new levels of that too. Like, you know, you have a kid or two graduate, kind of you're like, okay, but even now with this new season, with me being a mom of two kids, like I feel the fear of God of like, I'm just hoping I don't mess this thing up and the wisdom. But it's also helpful as a young mom to have healthy models of people you can talk to and ask questions with, and and just people you can look to to be like, I'm just looking at someone to help me know what's my next step and where am I supposed to go and what am I supposed to do, and what does the word of God say about this issue?

SPEAKER_05 7:55

Let's be really honest, okay? I I could mess it all up. Y'all turned out good because mom is the best Christian. She's the best Christian I know. She's the best Christian I know. I was thinking about now, she is very pragmatic. When I started with, you know, I need to talk about make sure the audience understands.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

She's like, hey, but she's not. She's not. She is strong.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

Her stringfinder is belief.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Right.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

So even before this, we're talking about what are we going to talk about? And and I'm like, y'all don't understand. People have so much pain. I'm like, uh, family, it's just, oh, and mom, mom, who who is very, you want her to pray for you if you get sick, because she really will.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Right.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

But she's kind of like, well, I don't understand. Let's just like give them the principles. I'm like, it's she's so for her, life is not complicated.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Black and white, not complicated.

SPEAKER_05 8:45

It's black and white. There's not a lot of gray. I see like prisms of different colors.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

I was thinking about today, actually, how you know, like in that season, right before you can drive, it's all about with kids who gets to sit in the front seat. So we'd fight every morning, me and Hannah. We'd get up early, get out there, we'd throw it-to-hand combat. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

I think I slapped you a couple of times.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Yeah, it was aggressive to say the least.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

You did kick him in the nose and make his nose crooked. You did. You broke my nose.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Um, so it was like nose crooked still? It's a little crookedish. It's all from the case.

SPEAKER_06 9:15

But maybe you could get insurance to cover a nose job.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

On that note. But we get his podcast canceled. Preachers' noses, nose jobs.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

We're endorsing that now. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

But I I remember we'd be fighting so much or whatever, and you'd be like, you know, answer stirs up anger, you know, or gentle answer turns away, wrath, whatever.

SPEAKER_07 9:37

Stirs up anger, but it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

No, her favorite one was her favorite one was rebellion is as witchcraft to the Lord.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

No, her favorite one to Caleb was don't be wise in your own eyes.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

I know. I thought that was just something you came up with. And I was like, oh, it's from the Bible.

SPEAKER_05 9:54

Yeah, I think Mimol has a verse, two bird in hands better than two in the bush.

SPEAKER_06 9:58

So that's like so.

What Parenting The Heart Means

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Maybe you joined in because you are attending the weekend Let's Talk Family series, or maybe you found the podcast again. We'd encourage you to join us on the weekend for that series. But like you said, we are clearly the RV family that's still working everything out and by no means have it all together. But I I just brought some questions that I was hearing from people that I'd love to throw to the table, hear from you guys. I was talking to somebody, a lady in her church that has kids kind of in different seasons, different ages, and and she has some kids that are in high school, really good football players, actually, 15, 16, 17. And she was saying, you know, we talk a lot about parenting the heart. That's something you guys, even in the series we were just in, talked a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_05 10:50

It's it's actually a book, Shepherding a Child's Heart, was one of the first books that I uh and so by his last name Tripp or something.

SPEAKER_07 10:59

Paul Trip.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

Paul Tripp. Is that the name? Yeah, Shepherding a Child's Heart.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Can you define that for a little bit for us? Like just the idea of parenting the heart, shepherding the heart. Like, what do y'all mean when you say that? Because I think people are still trying to understand the concept.

SPEAKER_07 11:14

I think it's really easy as a parent to focus on like what your kid does, like their actions. So, and a lot of times as parents, you know, we even can find identity in what our kids do or don't do or whatever. And so what we want to do is parent the external behaviors so that we all look good, our family looks good, all the things. But really, what happens is, you know, the external behaviors you can change for a little bit, but eventually the Bible says what's in the heart comes out, right? And so there you that's why you can be parenting and you're really strict with your kids and they're following all the rules, and one day you wake up and they're in full rebellion and you're like, where did this even come from? Well, it was in their heart all along, but we never really got to the heart because it was really about just don't make us look bad, right? We just or outward actions.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

I don't know that if your parents don't make us look bad, but I agree what they would what they would do is overemphasize if you're getting grades, my kid's good looking. Right. It's it's we are a very image-based, right, performance-based, outward culture, but by you know, just so so in other words, if all the packaging looks good, it's very easy for them inside, you know. In other words, you know, it's it's it's it's a common thing for a parent to be like, well, they're hitting all these marks, but then as a pastor, you actually talk to the kid and it's like, well, I hate my parents, you know, all this. And the parent would be like, I d I didn't know.

unknown 12:45

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:45

I didn't know that's where they were at. So I think a lot of people have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

And I helped them get into select baseball and I've been helping them with a bunch of different things. None of which is bad. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

But it's like, where where's the heart? I think a question might be, how do you how do you find out where the heart is?

unknown 13:02

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

Where where how do you how do you find that out?

SPEAKER_07 13:05

Well, and again, that goes back to the mouth because sometimes, you know, in a moment of anger, you know, you might say something and you're like, well, I didn't really mean that. And I'm like, no, you didn't mean to say it. But what's in there comes out, right?

SPEAKER_05 13:17

So we're saying, so we're getting practical. How how do they respond under pressure? Right. How do they respond to discipline? So I mean, we I say this when you're coaching someone, or you know, say you're someone's mentor, how do you know if you're really their mentor? Disagree with them. How do you know if you're someone's pastor, cross their will? How do you know if you're what's in your kid's heart, tell them no? Like, in other words, so if you tell them no or you cross their will, do they you always do they stomp off? Do they can you tell their attitude is what we call standing up on the outside but sitting down on the inside? You know, so how do you have one of those moments? Um we know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouse speaks. So that's why we talk about, especially when conducive bedtime, I mean, this is a very, very practical thing. I I did not travel a lot when my kids were in their formative years. I think being at their bedside, because they get kind of delirious, you know, and they want to talk. That's one thing I say about raising teenagers is they want to talk late. So you gotta be you gotta be able to handle that.

SPEAKER_07 14:32

It's like, oh, they're better with early morning talks.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

Yeah, mom on the way to school. Mom will turn into a pumpkin at like 8 30.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

We were talking, it was what, like 11 o'clock, and we look over and she's late on the couch. We were we were all together last week, okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

And mom, so so we were having a let's just say very vibrant discussion about the future of the kingdom of God. Right. And and so we were, and mom leaves the table and goes because it'll it's either t cold or tired. So she's both. So she goes over, she gets a blanket, and she's kind of and then next thing you know, she goes, I'm going to bed. Well, no, but we're like, Where is she?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Me and Jansen went to bed and I went back out because I was cold to go get that blanket off the couch, and it's dark out there, and I picked it up and and Laney was like, and I was like, Oh my gosh, Laney, have you been here the whole time? She was out there for like 30 minutes. She fell on the sleep on the couch with mom on the couch.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

On the couch.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

She was hidden under there. No one told her everyone was going to bed.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

But I I think honestly, in in this area, we were really mild, kind of didn't really are, you know, we were always sitting down, you know, kind of. No, we were really strong-willed and we had a lot of moments. I actually I wrote this down yesterday as I was thinking about today. Like even your 50th birthday party, which is a long time ago now, but it's not true. It's two years ago. But I remember as we were preparing for that, and you know, we just sometimes at at big milestone moments we'll share a letter or something. I remember I wrote down something about you, and you know, you take that seriously, you think about it, and I just think the consistency because we were, we were strong-willed, we had a lot of opinions and thoughts and things inside, but like I I wrote in that letter to you, I can't remember exactly how I worded it, but like obviously God knew that you needed to be my dad, but I don't know if there was anyone else that was gonna be willing to go to that level with me to work out all of the things that were in my heart that needed to come out and like the hours, the time, the intentionality, whether it's bedside or late night conversations, even up to last week. We're all adults married, but we're still having those.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Kill went to the bathroom because the Holy Spirit was working on me. I'd like to add a few addendums to my comment. I went to the bathroom and thought about it, had to calm down a little bit. Um I've gone to the bathroom and the Holy Sp Holy Spirit has spoken to me. Dad, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

I think though, what the cool thing about parenting the heart, though, is you know, what it produces, like when you talk about what it produces, the fact that we can all work together, you know, even disagree, but like love each other, have great relationships as siblings, as parents, that's the fruit of not making everything about your performance as well. Because as a kid, if you feel like my value is determined by what mom and dad think about just my grades and my performance in sports and how I look and who I'm friends with, then it can breed an insecurity that you feel like you're never measuring up or hitting the mark. Whereas parenting the heart, I can assume it was so much more energy, and then sometimes you're like, Am I focusing on the right things? Am I am I doing the right things? But what it breeds is like as kids, you feel so much more security in your identity and your value not being in your performance. Um, and it it creates safety between siblings too, of like we're not in competition with each other, we're not trying to outperform each other. We can be fun and be competitive and all of those and be strong personalities, which mischievous mischievous at times. But ultimately, his win is not my loss, and my win is not his loss because mom and dad are not looking at us and ranking us by our gift and our performance. They're valuing us for who God's created us to be and just helping us become a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 18:28

I mean, you're touching on a point that many times there's all kinds of factors, but a lot of times sibling rivalry is a product of overemphasizing competition over heart, right? I mean, you do want to be competitive, you want to do well, people want to win. But I go back to what's what is the brand lead to win. It starts with what is winning.

SPEAKER_06 18:47

Right.

Finding The Heart Under Pressure

Moving From Cop To Coach

SPEAKER_05 18:48

What is winning, right? So I don't see winning as I get to to this and I get whatever that prize is without the relationships. I want to go back because I always feel like in these when when we do a podcast, you know, what does it mean to parent the heart? I'd then now switch a little bit into teacher mode. I think a question people would ask is, how do you know where their heart is? Pressure. How do they respond under pressure? How do they respond in terms of speech? How does that how is that speech impacted when you cross their will? How do they respond to no? When have you disagreed with them? I think the other thing is, are you connected to the heart? Meaning giving the kid individual attention in non-conflict moments. When they're guards down along the way, when they're guards down, bedside. The Bible talks about, I use this in parenting all the time, as you walk along the road. So when you find out a kid's heart is when their guards down, not generally in the confrontation. But so there's an overall attitude that'll reveal where the heart really is. I think the next question is what what do you do to parent the heart? There's the concept, then there's how do you, when you know where the heart is, now what do you do?

SPEAKER_04 20:05

Well, when I think about that mom that's asking that question, it's like, okay, I feel like I had the middle school years down. Now they're like seniors in high school playing football, like grown adult men. I know mom, you had to work through that a little bit too, even the transitions being truth, strong, you know, definitive, black and white. Like, what was even your journey with that like?

SPEAKER_07 20:27

Yeah, it's definitely a transition. And dad really helped me a lot in that transition because I am naturally belief-centered, and um and again, I'm like, dad's a real coach, but again, as a mom, you're still trying to like coach your kids up, and you're in football, you're still in high school. And honestly, y'all's high school years were a little crazy, and I felt like I was kind of in a battle and it was a little battle-scarred, so I felt like I needed to stay in a controlling kind of mode. But there's a time where you really have to transition, you know, again, from cock to coach, and even come along. I think it's especially important too, with like mothers and sons to come along and just be your mom, be your friend, you know, just encourage you instead of correcting you all the time, encouraging you into the man that you were gonna be and what I saw in you.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

I really find that is a big thing where I tell a lot of moms in our suburban context, hey, that season's over. You know, and I realize there's contexts where there's a single mom or others and God's gracious, but I'm talking about where there's a husband, let the husband now take over more in the disciplinary coaching stamp for from that standpoint, and you move into more of an affirmation role. That's a little move that sometimes a lot of people wouldn't know unless someone shared it with them. Cause you you naturally just sort of keep doing what you've been doing. I want to go back though, let's go back. Parenting the heart when when children are little, sometimes the best way to learn something is to hear the contrast. So when you're not parenting the heart is when you allow every Everyone to be inconvenienced because of your child's lack of discipline due to your unwillingness to spend the energy to confront their will.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah, and I think there's a lot of fear out there too. Not even just I'm not willing to spend the energy, but I'm afraid that if I discipline my child or I set these boundaries, am I going to scar them for life? Are they going to have trauma? Like, you know, you're just, as a parent, usually just trying to do the right thing or you're doing what you know or what you see.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

I think, I think, I think again, form can can parenting outward can in heart, meaning, okay, I think let's talk about kids' education. I think kids can be educated in homeschool. I think there's missionaries. There are people in our church that feel a conviction about that. I think there can be a Christian school, there can be a private school, there can be a charter school, there can be public school. I went to public school, your mom went to public school, y'all went to private school, we have friends that did homeschool. What I would say is, let's take that one. What do I tell parents? Every season of the child's life, every child, we have to look at who they are, their heart, what they need in the moment. Here's what I mean by parenting the form. I'm putting my kids in homeschool to protect them from all the challenges of the world or Christian school. Quite honestly, you're not going to, in any environment, remove their ability to access all the bad things, right? And I and I get it. I'm not saying, say, well, my kid will make it and put your kid in an environment that's directly diametrically opposed to your value system. And I know that's where some of the tensions have come from public schools and different things. Understand the argument. The point I'm getting at is don't hyper react to the pain of your past to put your kids in a form that you think the form will solve it. They still have to go through a process of their own revelation to eventually have to go to college where they're going to be faced with everything. So little kids is the discipline. And then we get into is that spanking? Is that this? Is that this? Here's what it is. Discipline drives rebellion. So you know, I have people say, Well, I disciplined them and they didn't know. So, well, you're not doing it right. Like when you confront the will as God does with us, the goal of discipline is not pain, abuse, or any what is the goal? The goal is a submission to authority. And then it usually results in a hugging, crying, you know, I love you, you know, I'm I'm you know, whatever. The next phase, you know, is there's this window here of character formation. Privileges. Well, I'm talking about but before the cop coach is is character formation. That's why for y'all, my deal was lying, disrespecting authority. I had a few hot buttons that I feel like are character formation.

SPEAKER_07 24:57

And they were always like spanking offenses, basically. Like lying.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

Yeah. I mean, those are lying. Then when you then when you get in high school, it was there, the other ones they went up for.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Well, it was it was if you lie or if you disrespect your mom, the consequences are automatically greater than anything else.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

100%.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

And there was the principle of because that's about who you are. Um, whereas other things sometimes maybe there was grace given or mercy given. Those things were like the consequences for these are greater because it shows what's in your heart.

SPEAKER_05 25:30

People who talk on parenting talk well about you got to be able to discern the difference in foolishness, childishness, and rebellion.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

So, so in other words, whatever it is, my favorite emoticon, if you have kids, is the big eyes. It means you did what. So the point isn't childishness. So then, but then that next phase is moving to COP, where there's a dialogue about talk to me about the freedoms that you want. Freedom comes with responsibility. So parenting the heart is understanding the season of where your kid is. But you know what the hardest thing about parenting the heart is you have to trust God to also work in your child's heart. This is why I say that's why we do camps, retreats, bring your kids to church. Those moments.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Do you feel like one of the number one barriers for most parents in parenting the heart is the fear of rejection?

unknown 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Like the fear, especially as your kids get a little bit older and you're moving more to that teenage years. Sometimes the pain, like I remember it's a funny story, but I remember one time when I was younger, I had my eyebrows were real bushy and terrible. And mom made me go get my eyebrows waxed, and I told her I hated her at the thing. And she was like, I'm trying to help you. But, you know, sometimes teenagers say things that they don't think, and it can hurt and it can be painful, but the fear of rejection sometimes can keep parents from parenting the heart because they're like, What if they don't come home for Thanksgiving? What if they leave? And what if they're mad at me? What if they don't want to have a relationship because I tell them that that's not God's best for you or that's not okay? You know, do you think that's a big barrier for people?

SPEAKER_05 27:11

I think so. I think what what parents have trouble with is that teenage phase is they're they're really not upset with you. They're really trying to understand who they are. If they're working through their own insecurities. So if there's one thing you would want to give a parent of teenagers is more security, if you stay consistent, if you love, like at the end of the day, there's a lot happen. It's happening in them.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Right. And I appreciated that about you guys because Caleb and I were such strong personalities that if we felt like if we could push up against the brick wall and it would break at any level, we would, but it would make us feel insecure. So you and mom always just being like we say we would say something just to provoke a reaction sometimes, but you guys being like, I love you. You know, and not letting it make you insecure, even though I'm sure maybe at sometimes you felt that way, but didn't didn't let us didn't let us set the temperature, didn't let us determine how you were gonna respond, and didn't let us determine who you were gonna be. Right was right and wrong was wrong.

SPEAKER_05 28:12

Parents are not God, but they're the picture to the most that we can be God l you know, we ask God for his help. Right. And so God doesn't not saying parents are God, but what I'm saying is to the kid, you're modeling really relationship with God. And if we can manipulate God or change God, or if God in any way needed our approval, then it wouldn't make us feel like safe with him, you know.

Parenting The Heart With Technology

SPEAKER_04 28:38

So one of the questions specific questions we got, and I think you guys were probably you're kind of right in the middle of this transition, but we definitely experienced it. This is an exact question we got. How do you parent the heart in the age of technology? That that was a big one. And again, we were right at that transition period where technology was becoming readily available, you know, but you guys didn't grow up with that same exposure. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 29:05

Well, I would I would go back to what y'all talk about the late night talks, the visits, the willing to pay the price. I if I haven't I'm just I'm answering this based on what you just said. Yeah, one, you got to be aware. I think some parents believe they can lock lock out the voice. You need to have parental controls and different things, especially at the age of the kids. We we we were not feeling like we were indebted to allow tech talking technology is a privilege, it's not a right. I get all that, but at the end of the day, the root, root, root thing was I determined I would be louder than the technology. And when I say louder, I don't mean louder in voice. I didn't say yelling, I'm not saying forcing. What I am saying is I'm gonna enter the discussion and be a part of the discussion. So when Hannah is making huge value choices about things in her formative years, and she has always been a reader, she's a communication person, she's a marketing person, she's got a master's degree in communications. I start Hannah, let's so she and I would do walks, we worked out together, we would talk, and I'm entering the discussion. So I'm doing a lot of. So tell me what you think about said issue.

SPEAKER_06 30:19

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Well, I think blah, blah, blah, some unbiblical, stupid answer. Then I basically don't go, well, Hannah, that's a crazy unbiblical, you're a heretic. I go, well, that's interesting, Hannah. Uh, let's talk about that. You know, did you hear that from XYZ? Tell me where that information was, why did they give that point of view? What is the background? So we're we're really talking about parenting the heart, too, by what you might call a biblical worldview, too, right? So we're shaping the world.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

And you're saying that affects how you engage with technology. If it's still the worldview, it doesn't change from relationships in person to what you do online.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Your algorithm's feeding you what you already believe.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

But at the end of the day, it's influence, right? So you hear young people in ministry sometimes say, oh, I'm so-and-so's pastor. And it's like, well, we'll see. Whoever has the most influence with the person is who they're gonna listen to. And you may have moments where the technology is loud or there's a disagreement, but ultimately, if you're investing in that relationship, you're adding value and you have the most influence, your voice is ultimately gonna win out, even if you don't feel like in the season you're seeing it. I think too, though, on the converse side, because we're talking more about the voices people see on social media and their algorithms. On the opposite side, I wonder too, if there's too much when we talk about majoring on the majors and not on the minors, there's too much on if my kid has any screen time, then all of a sudden they're gonna turn out to be the worst person in the world. It's like they can watch Zootopia or have a movie and they're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

You know, just Yeah, we do we tend to be hyper. Yeah. And and really at the end of the day, we watch TV, latchkey kids, we have this, y'all, y'all at the end of the day, excuse me to make us watch Planet Earth on VHS. Form, form doesn't form, forms do not ultimately there's good principles in forms, but the what's the point of parenting the heart? I know people that tracked their kids on 360 and it worked out great. And I know people that did it, that the kids have hacked it and they don't know where their kids are, the tracking device somewhere. There's people that have their kids under lock and key from a technology standpoint that are looking at pornography behind their back and the parents don't know. But there's people that do it, and it was a principle that helped bring an accountability, and we obviously are talking about ages. Where I think we really miss it is this is really the sum end all be all. We don't, this is what I want to say to a young family, we don't work hard enough at the heart on the front end, and then we try to control on the back end. Yeah, right.

unknown 32:57

That's good.

SPEAKER_05 32:57

Whatever, whatever the heart doesn't embrace, then you have to try to police.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Yep.

unknown 33:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 33:04

So what I would say to the young family, of course you want them to take their first steps and learn to read, but but be really intentional about environments and moments and heart and anchors and spiritual stuff and conversations. So later there doesn't have to be as many fences.

SPEAKER_06 33:24

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Start taking that back. Well, you're gonna have to, or they'll run over them.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

True.

Repairing Connection With Adult Kids

SPEAKER_06 33:29

True.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Or as soon as they leave the house at 18, it's like what would you say to someone who maybe feels like my kids are grown, or I'm in the later teenage years and I feel like I didn't do that as well as I would have liked to? What would you say to people in that phase of like, what do I do now, or how do I parent the heart in the season I'm in now?

SPEAKER_05 33:49

I mean, I think it's a great deal. I think one thing I learned, you never know what next season comes, you know. And I've learned like young, your your young adults actually need more from you a lot of times than you expected. 19, 20, 21 years old is an intense pastoral time. They're making big decisions. And if you've earned the right to be a coach, they call you all the time. Why? Because they're working through some big things and they really see you as valuable. And trust me, when you're 18, 19, 20, 21 years old, you need a pastor more than any other time in your life. And so they're so, so I would say, too, if you've blown it or you're or you or you're even parent kids that have started their own families, once again, if you didn't connect to the heart, your go-to is to preach the form. So I'm usually telling parents to go the other way. Go sit down with your adult kids and work as hard or overboard at communicating your love for them, your support of them, your value in them, your willingness to help them lower your control and heighten and emphasize being with. Because I think where the error is, is we assume rights at that phase that we don't have anymore, and then they pull back from us. And so um I think I think you know, more connect, more heart, more value, less correct, less correct.

SPEAKER_07 35:26

Well, you know, I think it it's interesting because again, you know, parenting little children was as easy for me. Like I loved that. It's easy, correct, all the things cuddle, and all the and you go through all the seasons, and I think the most unexpected season is the adult season. Because you think, okay, they're gonna be out of the house, they're gonna have their own lives. But one of the biggest blessings in life is being able to be friends with my adult children. And um, I don't know, it's not something I think you ever really think about that much as you're growing up, but the privilege that it is when they call you just to chat, not because they need anything or whatever, just because they want to talk or to try to peer pressure you into playing pickleball at 10 o'clock at night in the freezing cold or whatever it is, it's like it's it's such a privilege and such a blessing. And the the thing is though, back here you have to pay the price, right? Being so intentional with their heart and and um and just making sure that you're staying in step with them all along because you get that privilege because you're interacting with them at all the different phases and creating that relationship, not a top-down relationship, but being able to even transition in those teenage years into still being their parent, but also coming around to their side of the table and being their friend a little bit and their coach and all of those things to where when they get to that age, you get to be in that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

And I think, you know, just for any parent listening, really, it's like your kid wants your affirmation more than anything else. And so even if you feel like you've messed it up or you've blown it or they're mad at you, or you're not on speaking terms, like I would encourage you just don't let any insecurity keep you from pressing in because love covers over a multitude of offenses. So when you just step out on love and say, I'm gonna, it's awkward. My my daughter's grown, my son's grown, I'm gonna go up and hug him. Hug him, I'm gonna tell him I love him, write him a letter.

SPEAKER_05 37:18

That isn't an end-all be all, but most of the time in pastoring, that's where I see the fault. Like a guy not too long ago, my son finally came back to church, and I'm gonna go talk to him. And I said, You're no, you're not gonna go talk to him. You're gonna hug him. Yeah. You're gonna say, I'm proud of you and I love you, and forgive me where I've made mistakes, and they had this big reconciliation. He was going from an authority that he assumed. The heart is I I have to have a revelation of where my authority actually is. And that's hard for parents because it's like I it's where you get the phrase like, I gave birth to you. I paid your bills.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

I brought you into this world, and I can take you out.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

You're gonna fail at the relationship. It's not that. It's back now to I have to influence them at this season. Am I do I do they want to? And so I think I think I would say this though, when you talk about the heart, here's the good news. We hear we see verses, you know, God's arm is not too short, it, you know, the time of salvation. The good part because we are believers in a supernatural God and the power of the Holy Spirit. I just want to give somebody hope today. So lean away from what you naturally think, usually is what we're saying. God's usually the opposite side.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Right.

SPEAKER_05 38:34

If you're the if you're the pushover parent of a little kid that's a tornado and you don't discipline them, you might want to probably grow in that. Right. If you're a little bit more to form an outward appearance, you might want to lean towards sit down and watch a movie and hold their hand.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Right.

Hope, Next Steps, And Closing

SPEAKER_05 38:49

Lean away probably from what feels natural. If you got adult kids and you want to choke them, take them dinner tonight and say, I'm so honored to have you as my child. Write that note, send that text. And I think the good news is there's hope and we serve a supernatural God who can change people's hearts. There's hope when we if we serve an all-powerful God that created the universe by breathing stars into existence, he can touch your kid.

unknown 39:20

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Well, thank you all so much for jumping in for this episode. I do want to remind you, you can go back and watch that episode called The Reluctant Leader right before this one. And do want to encourage you as well, if you haven't yet, to join in with us for the Let's Talk Family series at Milestone. Um but we'll see you back in two weeks for the next episode of the Lead to Win podcast.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast. I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most. So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to win.