Welcome to Lead to Win: A New Way to Think About Leadership

0:00 This is like a laboratory on life, on people. Lead to Win exists to help leaders, pastors, business leaders, parents, younger people coming up to really win in the areas of life that matter most. The worst thing in life is not having less points than you would like to have. It's actually having a lot of points and realize you're playing the wrong game. Well, I want to welcome you to the Lead to Win podcast, where we're helping you lead in the areas of life that matter most. It's a big day for us Season one, episode one. Here we are jumping off and I thought, pastor Jeff, we just start with the explanation.

0:41 What is this? Why are we having a podcast? Why are we doing this? What are we trying to help people win? Where are we trying to help them win and why is this important? Well, you and I have been friends for 25 years, so there's been multiple discussions about church leadership, sports and a whole wide array of topics to which you are a person who contains a wealth of information, a pretty good trivia partner probably because you have like the most random bit of useless information along with some good information learning platform. It's a place to get exposed to some things that you wouldn't ordinarily have the opportunity to be exposed to.

1:28 So we began to kind of start thinking about, like, how to provide a pull back the curtain. So we work on books, we work on I preach, you know, I think probably in the last two weeks I've done, you know, live communication. It was a little bit of a rare stretch, probably 10 or 12 times, including weekends and stuff, Right. So this provides a platform where you know whether it's members of our church, family leaders, pastors, people in the business community. I spoke at my first business large business event. Convention yeah, yes, convention deal Leaders Convention yeah, and that was such a learning opportunity, Right?

2:10 So I love to invite them into the discussion. But I do believe that I like this format because it's a little bit more raw and real and we do a lot of different things on a given weekly basis, but one of the number one things we do is this is like a laboratory on life, on people. So Lead to Win exists to help leaders, pastors, business leaders, parents, younger people coming up to really win in the areas of life that matter most. People coming up to really win in the areas of life that matter most. Single greatest thing that impacts the culture, which we know. Peter Drucker said culture eats strategy for breakfast.

2:52 I hope in these formats that we get some nuggets, some pragmatic tools. You know how do I put this bolt in this hole to fit this widget. I think that stuff is helpful and I'm you know me, I like it all. Yeah, you know I got everything, I like it all and and, and I hope that happens. But I do think also, though, this this can be a place of, of inspiration and motivation to to really, because really, at the end of the day, we do what we want to do. So it's about changing our perspectives, maybe on certain things we're prioritizing, and so I hope also I get a chance to interact with so many amazing leaders.

3:36 We're going to have some great guests on the podcast. Great guests that come. John Maxwell, I did a live interview in a leadership setting for the podcast with him and I really enjoy that format because I'm pulling out of them things that have been impactful for me. So I'm doing that anyway, like if I this is you know this about me, like if I get a chance to interact with someone, I'm going to be curious and listening and learning and asking questions and what about? that I'm going to be curious and listening and learning and asking questions and what about that? And so I love doing that in the podcast format because I'm just doing what I would normally do yeah, you're just inviting people into it and it's one of my favorite things about you. You always love to say you say you don't want to just what a great, successful person has.

4:19 You want how they think, and so you're talking about these questions. You're curious, you're a learner, you're a processor of information. This podcast is not just a couple of people spouting off theories. We were just upstairs planning weekend services, planning a whole series of events and different things that we have from a leadership perspective, so we're trying to bring people into this world and help them learn as we're learning, and together we think that's really valuable. Okay, let's talk a little bit about this idea lead to win. Leadership's an important part, but winning is an important part and I think sometimes people struggle. Well, winning are you saying like you're better than somebody else, or is winning in the Bible? Help us understand why the organization is called Lead to Win. Why did we build a podcast around that idea?

5:00 Because it's so important to who God's made you and just the whole culture of how we do things. Well, let's be honest, winning is way more fun. Yes, it's better than losing. Yes, everybody wants to win and everyone wants to be around. Winners Right, and it's proven that anyone listening that has a team, a home, a family, a culture, an environment, that winners gravitate to certain environments and they change the environments that they're in, and so, years ago, I remember I am at my core. I'm a coach, I'm a dad, I'm a pastor. A pastor is all about helping the sheep win, helping them be healthy, right?

5:42 So my greatest fulfillment is helping others win, and so, in fact, I would remove myself from even having to be that important, because my biggest joy is just inspiring others to do well. So it never, it's never been about my profile or my brand or any of that. And so we were writing a profile years ago, and again I had kind of minimized it. But they were like no people need to know who the leader is. And so we were working on it and they were like, well, just tell us what you really care about. And I said, well, I just want to see people win in life. So I have a book called the Way to Win, which was my doctoral dissertation, where I unpack a development journey because everyone needs a coach, which is one of the principles.

6:32 But then what does that coach do? It helps us through a series of steps that bring us to an ultimate better place. Really is what a coach does Creates an iterative process of practice that then helps you to win. But as I was involved in the empirical study of that and all the components of that, I really realized that what I'm really saying is I want you to win at what matters most, because winning is all in the eyes of what your scoreboard is. It's in the perspective. We all have scoreboards today, Right, I mean everyone's got they're trying to close their rings.

7:15 You're challenging one of our guys on the bike and all these things. Everybody yeah. Everybody has. Everyone has their bank accounts on their phone. They do so. You're looking all the time. Everybody, yeah, everybody has. Everyone has their bank accounts on their phone. They do so, you're looking all the time at that yes, how many followers you have on social media. That's a scoreboard for people, especially for young people, for young people, that's why they're. You know everyone has a scoreboard. You go to the doctor when you get our age and the were in the car. the other day, my doctor called me how are you doing with this? How are you doing with that? It's like, oh gosh, I'm not really appreciating the accountability. So it's like we all have a scoreboard and different seasons of life. You may have different ones, but the worst thing this is the theme that I want everybody to get and it's my goal for this podcast the worst thing in life is not having less points than you would like to have.

8:02 It's actually having a lot of points and realize you're playing the wrong game. Right, it's true, you were actually focused on something that isn't the ultimate reward, or winning. I think it's important too. As far as you know, I'm a pastor and that's my primary lens. I'm a dad, I'm a coach, I'm uh, I love those things, but I am a pastor. That's what I've done for 30 years. I started at 21 years old and and so, as as a pastor, who's who's working with people and developing and equipping people, I think that, um, people may ask in the church space is it okay to win?

8:44 You know so I, I think sometimes as a pastor, right, so as a coach, or as a dad, or in in personal things, it's like oh well, we're, you know, because if I'm playing checkers, we're, I'm playing to win. But I think sometimes in the like pastor thing, is it okay to win, or should I even encourage them to win? 1 Corinthians 9.24,. I love it because it says the apostle Paul says there's all these runners that are running this race, but only one gets the prize. And the statement there in the NIV is run in such a way to get the prize. But in the New American Standard, which is my personal study Bible, it says run to win. Yes, now, let's make sure we get the context here.

9:26 But it illustrates my point. Paul's talking about eternity, what he's really speaking about is this is a temporary world, but there's an eternal world. There's an eternal kingdom that we're investing in. So he's speaking about things like people's souls, right? What does it profit? So business people would say winning is finishing the year with a high profit, a good return on investment. Well, the Bible says what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his? soul, that's a scoreboard verse. That is a big scoreboard. That's a scoreboard. We saw Jesus with the rich young ruler.

10:07 Does the Bible say it's a sin to be rich? No, it actually talks about being generous and sharing and everything we have is from God. What it does say is it can be more difficult if it's your scoreboard. Right, right, and so this. This is an area of. I have phrases like I want to make you rich where you're poor. That's good. I want to help you work through. What does it mean to have a growing organization but your team not hate you? Wow, that's often the case. What if everybody finishes the finish line? What if everybody's winning? What if the whole environment that you lead, their marriages are better, their lives are better?

10:48 Is that possible? I hate to use the phrase because it's really used in a bad way. But what if you could have it all? What I mean? Have it all? You can't have it all at one time, but if you really see things through a biblical lens, you don't have to see winning as well. I got more people in my church, but I hate my church, right? Or or I got more in in the area of church, but my wife is is is not happy with me or my kids, or like how do you, how do you win? And that's back to culture. Like like I I am. I'm not I'm not saying that I'm not growing in this cause.

11:30 I'm always learning about it. In fact, you're going to hear my conversations through this but I think one of my strengths is culture building. It's true, like like building an environment that has some laughter, that has some focus, that has some correction, that has some. It's okay to be transparent and just go. I'm having a bad day, but overall the goal is like everybody's striving toward the same goal. So I tell people at our membership class so I should tell them I guess this is our membership class of our podcast. I'm really not good at much Like. I'm really not Like my high school when I went back for my big class reunion.

12:10 They're like Jeff, how do you lead that big church? Because you don't know how to do anything. And I'm like yeah, that's always been my motto in life. If you know how to do stuff, people ask you to do stuff they do. But here's what I'm really good at. Yeah, what I'm really good at is getting high capacity people to work together for a common cause. And now I'm at a point in my life so I didn't just like oh, what's my, what's, what's our brand? Like even the podcast right Sure. Years ago. I want to help people win in life Right the way to win. I have a book called win with people that we're going to unpack on this. That help that could help you become a better shepherd and a team builder and a pastor. Right and so, but but why? Why that that?

12:51 Well, I tell people when they come to our church again. I don't know how to do a lot, but where I'm at in my life now is I have this history with a group of people, most of my team a long period of time 25, 30 years of building together and seeing again, sometimes more success than others, but every day waking up and saying we're going to move the ball forward. That's really good and I want to say just to clarify you hear him say you're being that's true, but you are being a little bit aw shucks because I always tell people your treadmill runs at 14. Like, normal treadmill stops at 10. Your treadmill runs at 14 because you're committed to this, you love this.

13:33 You're like I can't believe we get to do this. But again, to me this comes back to the ethos, the culture of winning the greatest winners I've ever been around. Don't have to tell you what great winners they are. I got a privilege to sit with John Wooden before he passed. He didn't tell us about his championships, he didn't have to show us anything. He was asking us about us. See to me like winning. When we talk about winning, somebody else doesn't have to lose for you to win. That's the biblical concept. It about winning. Somebody else doesn't have to lose for you to win. That's the biblical concept. It's a stewardship. We live in a world today where we can kind of prop up this illusion of winning too. Here in Texas we call it all hat, no cattle.

14:15 So I am at the point in my life where I have the fruit of relationships. I'm not talking about just the number of people in our church or the number of people that follow me, but I have this history that takes a while to build it does, it takes time. So it's also me trying to inspire someone that it's not too late to build the right way, and so that ethos of winning, I think is something people are intrigued by Right, and it's also I think we're going are intrigued by Right, and it's also I think we're going to continue to unpack what is it really? Cause I know a lot of people that that get to certain metrics and they're just, they're not, they're like is that it Right, you know? I think some of that, too, is what kind of a team member are you? Cause if you're concerned with yourself primarily, everybody's been on a team with a player like this.

14:59 Sometimes they're great, sometimes they're not even that good, but they perceive everything through themselves. Am I getting the credit? Who sees me? And I think the greatest winners are all about trying to add value, and this is certainly you. You're trying to always add value to others and to say if the rest of my team is winning, I'm not going to have to worry about my scoreboards nearly as much. Yeah. No, if you have to tell somebody how great you are, you're probably not that great, it's true, but we live in a world that's been taught. Tell everybody. Celebrate. You, build your brand. Tell them how great you are, puff it up. It doesn't even matter if you're that good, just act like you are. I think it's a really important definition, a very important foundational thing, because, you said it earlier, biblically speaking, winning doesn't mean you never have any setbacks.

15:48 True? I need to make sure everybody's clear on that. Yeah, we're going to go through things. I mean Jesus himself you're going to have trials. You're going to have tribulations. Be of good cheer. I've overcome the world. So even Jesus saying in the end we all win because of Jesus, Because of him, Because of him. He's the ultimate victor right. He conquered death, hell, the grave. So, no matter what we face, we ultimately win because of our great champion. And we're attached to his team. We're just on the team, we're on his team. He's doing the winning, exactly. He's the head. But I think another thing is someone else doesn't have to lose in the kingdom, right, Right. So I grew up with two sisters right, and this was back in the old days.

16:29 My kids now. It's like you can door dash any cereal, you can get all the good cereals, but we very seldom got good cereal. It was like the plain Cheerios. But every now and then Mom would be like okay, y'all can get Lucky Charms or something. So then it's a race to the box. It's a race to the box, right. So Saturday morning I wake up, my sister had been up since four eating all the good cereal and it's like you know, and so I think a lot of people view life to where, if I don't get up first, there's only so much cereal, zero sum. Zero sum, there's a pie. And if I don't hide, two pieces there won't be a piece for me. Makes people anxious, it makes them stingy, makes them have the scarcity mentality.

17:11 Yep. Yep, so someone else doesn't have to lose in the kingdom, for you to win. It's a generous mindset, it's an important thing. That's really good. But I think settling the reality that biblically it's okay like 1 Corinthians 9.24, it's okay to have a stewardship mindset, have an eternal perspective that says I want to do this in a way that what I do matters, and I think that's where, when you get to words like fulfillment it's really good and significance it's, it's in that area of does what I do matter, it's really good, and that's what I want to talk about in this is like bringing meaning.

17:53 Yes, I mean you have the Simon Sinek's and the these, these, these you knowdisrupting concepts of people's sacrifice. For why? Yes, that's true, but it's like I want us to have discussions that get us to winning at what matters most. Yes, it's really good. I know for you too, you're a guy who's not just into hype, You're not into just a bunch of leadership buzzwords, you like to get practical. So I thought, maybe help us with this thought, because I think sometimes somebody's watching this. Maybe they're a church planner, Maybe they're a student ministry worker, Maybe they're a kids ministry worker. They're thinking like Pastor Jeff's talking about these big scopes, these big, and we work with a lot of young people. We have a college, Milestone College.

18:33 Talk to me for a minute about a young leader who's like man, I want to win in life, and a lot of times they think what that means is I have to be great at everything. Help us understand for a young leader. You started out not a lot of people knew what you were doing, but you're like I'm going to get good at a few things and if I get good at a few things, then I'm going to have opportunities to go to other things. Talk to me about the basics of learning how to win, Because winning is really a habit that you build over time. Right, it's not always celebrated, Like you said it. Even a lot of times we learn more in adversity. How does a young leader know okay, I'm getting good. I'm finding some aptitude. This is an area of my life where I could win Well, I think. I think one of the things that's so challenging about our world today is there's an over-celebrating which we've already hit right, You're amazing.

19:17 Yeah, you know, I didn't grow up in that household, right? So my dad actually would tell a story that I was. I was my senior year athlete of the year, but I didn't start out that way. I was a little heavy kid with big Jack in the box, helmet running around. You know I talk about getting hit by the ball, being scared, going to sit with my mom. But the thing about sports is not that everybody has to play sports to be great. But I will say one thing about it is you see immediate results. You see quicker results to effort that you put in Right. You can see quicker feedback. Yes, you get it in real time. A week of good practice, you can find yourself having more endurance. Yes, it's great. So I developed, as I was not the highest scorer in basketball.

20:02 I was a rebounder. Um, I was not. I started out as a tight end, but my, my, my coach moved me to right guard. Yeah, Not a lot of a lot of glory in being the right guard. There are not a lot of guys with right guards selling a ton of jerseys right Like you know so, but my point was by the time I'm a senior, I'm impacting the culture. So I was, you know, voted athlete of the year. And my dad was sitting in the stands and this, this guy said that guy, that that boy is a good kid, you should, you should, brag on it. And my dad said back to him the philosophy I grew up under, I'd rather listen to you. Yeah, so my, my point is that that environment is challenging, but I think the second thing that follows that so first is an over an an over celebrating before anything to be rewarded has been done.

20:51 It's true. Well you're, you're 30 years into ministry before launching a podcast right, it's not like a guy there's guys now who are like a year or two into ministry consultant podcast it's like okay, let's do it for a little while, let's learn some reps. This is also parenting. You do want to affirm your kids, but if you over-affirm before there's actual responsible results, that's called flattery. So the next thing, though, that I think is so big, if I were to say a trait of a pastor, a manager, a parent or any is assessment. That's good, and it's also plays into self-awareness, which we know every leadership teaching out there right now.

21:36 It's all about it. It's about self-awareness, eq so the hardest people to manage and help win are when there's a big disconnect between how they see themselves and how the rest of the team or the coach sees them, they think they're quarterback and really they're more like a right guard, like you said I mean, I coach my son's little league team, and and again, is the parents are the problem. Right, it's like whoa, this lady showed up her son's little league team and and and again, is the parents are the problem right. It's like Whoa, this lady showed up. Her son's got, like her, her husband's white t-shirt over his pads. And she's like we're here and he's playing quarterback and I was like, well, you need to go find a different team. Then I got turned into the school board and I'm a local pastor, so anyway, that's a football board, so anyway whatever, but.

22:17 But I think I think assessment is so big, like being able to honestly evaluate. Here's really where I'm at, and you were talking about young people. I'm going to some here over celebration. Lack of honest assessment Right Then leaves leaves me in a place where what it produces actually in me is I don't have confidence, I can do it. Wow, that's what it actually produces. The anxiety that we think kids have is not based on the lack of opportunity. It's not based on the lack of affirmation, it's true. It's not based on the lack of padding around their life to give them peace. It's based on they've been over-affirmed and under-stewarded and they've also been given the opportunity to misassess themselves.

23:08 And now I don't feel confident that I can do it. So the anxiety lies in I don't know if I have what it takes. The way you learn to have what it takes is I'm running my race. Yeah, I'm not going to win your race. No, I'm running my race with my skillset. I'm not trying to outrun somebody else. I'm not, you know I'm, I'm running within my lane and then that creates traction. So for me, whereas this podcast, 30 years later, I realized I'm not, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm an okay speaker, you know I'm, I'm, I can speak, I'm good, you know, whatever I make people laugh. It's low low revelation, high humor.

23:54 But I mean I I'm like okay. I'm like okay, well, I can inspire people a little bit, but I'm never going to probably be an industry leader, probably in in, just like hyping people into a building, sure. So I'm not cool enough, definitely not good looking enough. I just wore a shacket for the first time last powerful, look good first time ever. Hey, I thought it was a good made me wear it. He came into my, my, my dressing area he goes. Dad, I'm not letting you chicken out. You got to put this on, but I still wore black, because big men wear black but, but anyway, it was a win. It was a win. So I wore a shaggot. So, I'm definitely not the trendsetter Right, but you don't care how cool your coach is or your pastor is, no, you don't. You just want him to be your pastor or your dad. So I, but I did realize, I thought you know what I can be great at.

24:35 I can be great at coaching, developing, inspiring, encouraging. I don't know if I'm going to be a superstar, but I can sure be a super coach or a super pastor, and that's what all of this that we're sharing in this really comes out of that ethos. It's really true. It's just, I just want to. I just want to help you, inspire you, develop you, help you win at whatever it is you have in front of you, and sometimes I find that it's just sometimes a little bit of a mindset or a perspective shift that can be the game changer. Last week, when we were at that business convention, one of the things that you said I thought was so good was you win if you don't quit. And I think in our world today, the consistency of a coach, the consistency of a dad, the consistency of a pastor who says the wind's going to blow, adversity is going to come, setbacks are all around us, things we didn't plan for.

25:29 But I'll tell you this I can't control a lot of things, but I can control whether or not I don't give up. I think the resiliency the word people use now is grit of somebody who's like man. I can control very few things, but I get to control whether or not I quit and throw in the towel. I've watched you walk through a lot of things and I've never thought I wonder if Pastor Jeff's going to quit. There's a couple of times where I almost did. But you're right. I mean, you know, I'm hard-headed enough that I'm not going to but yeah, I mean I will say what's the power of a podcast, what's the power of having someone help you think about areas of your life that you need input, in that you don't know you need Right, you don't know what you don't know.

26:13 And I think some of the relational infrastructure that I've had around my life and some of that is also played into that, not just sheer personality or willpower has also played into that, not just sheer personality or willpower. But yeah, I mean I think, I think I would think, as a young pastor walking through some challenging things and and I would think, you know, like someone would tell me hey, just don't quit. And you'd be like that's easy to say from where you're at Right and I think somebody listening could be like yeah you're at this place in life, 50 years old. I've got two kids married. I've got a couple off the payroll. Thank God I'm moving further now I'm further toward this end of the race than I am.

26:57 You're in a different season. I'm in a different season. And I would think you have a guy get up and he's got 15,000 people in his church and be like you know. Jesus is more than enough. You know, it's like okay. Well, let me get a few more people. I knew you when you were 25, you're like, let me get a few before we start talking about that. You know, what I mean. I mean, I'm not trying to be sacrilegious but, I am saying, it's much easier for someone in my position, for you, to kind of think, oh, it's going to be be fine but I will tell you yes, if you keep your heart right, because this, really, if I had to sum up, winning, yeah, stewardship, it's really true. I last night last night this is.

27:37 this is fresh material. Yes, fresh material. Yes, with my, because I still I have two grown kids. I got two grandkids my son, samuel, absolutely amazing Grandpa. We don't want to go down that too much. It'll become the whole podcast. It'll become the whole podcast. But I will say you know, then I got one that's about halfway done with college, but I still have one eighth grade going to ninth. So last night was about going from eighth grade to ninth grade, big transition, big transition. I'm going away for a week with her for a camp, spending time with her, and I'm like I'm going to help you through this. But if I'm sharing with everybody there, what did I say to my own kid?

28:20 What do I say to myself when you're like man, big transition pressure challenge. Do I have what it takes? I went in the kitchen, got a piece of paper, got a black magic marker and I wrote number one. I wrote at the top steward Number one, steward your heart. The Bible says guard your heart with all diligence, for out of it flow the issues of life. It isn't just me quitting practically, it's me quitting emotionally. It's true, Because there's a lot of people still going through the motions they go through the motions. They call it quiet quitting, yeah, quiet quitting. So it's steward your heart right. Steward what you've been given right. Steward your homework Steward your grades.

29:02 Steward the class that you're in. Steward what you have. Steward the responsibilities right In the garden. They were given this garden. Take care of it, you know. Make it fruitful right. Steward your own health, your own emotions. You can't control the other girl who's insecure? who's being critical or rude. Steward your own health, physically, emotionally. I would say that what's one of my top deals for you winning in this podcast? Your emotional, spiritual, practical health as a person is the single greatest contributing factor. Yes to growth in whatever so true, it's, it's all. The bad news is it's you.

29:43 The good news is you know where the problem is yes, it's true. So so so it was. You know, steward your health, and then you know the final thing was steward your relationships, because a lot of times I think we're going to hit this a lot in this winning equals a lot of times something more relational than it does functional. It's really true, because a lot of times, the way God resources us is through another person, Right, and so if I can win with people which is my most recent book there's so much supply through that, so good. Now I'm not doing that to get from them. You're not manipulating them, but when you're rich relationally. It brings a wealth of things into your life. So true, it's really good and I think you know, as we finish up this first episode, this is a great way for us, this thought that you were just on.

30:28 Whether you're a pastor, a business leader, a high school student, a middle school student, wherever you're at, it all comes down to winning, comes down to stewarding. One day we're going to stand before Jesus and he's going to say what did you do with what I gave you? And it's not going to matter what anybody else did, it's going to be what did you do? Because, like you said, we're the only ones who can answer that bell, who can respond to that challenge. And I love a podcast like this because you want to be around. Winning is contagious so is losing. You want to be around people who are excited and our hope for this podcast. Every time whether it's a guest or whether it's the two of us that you would be encouraged, that you would have a new inspiration, that you would have like man. I can do it. I don't have to quit. God has more for me. The future is brighter than the past is dark.

31:11 My best days are ahead of me. I can win in the areas that matter most. I know that's your heart. Anything can happen, just like this. It's like last night, I had those four points for my kid and you may have an eighth grader that's going into ninth grade and you want to save that little nugget, so it could be anything from parenting wisdom to coaching, to practical team, to guests who are going to impart to us, and we're learning as we're listening to them. And so I just believe that we can build an environment here that gives us like that dose to keep on going. And I do want to say to somebody it will ultimately, if you just keep taking steps right, winning. As you said is about me stewarding and doing a responsible.

31:56 Well, you know, it involves my heart. Yes, a focused effort toward what I've been given stewardship over, and the rest takes care of itself and it's going. You may not think you're making progress, but you are and you're going to get to the other side if you don't quit. So good Scripture is about sowing right. If you don't grow weary in that sowing and that well-doing. The Bible says if you don't faint, if you don't quit, you'll reap. You always will reap, you always reap. You'll do it Well. I want to thank you so much, Pastor Jeff. It's great being with you here for this first episode. I want to thank you for joining us. We hope you'll join us next time on the Lead to Win podcast.